Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems  (Read 14808 times)

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Offline Nepster

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[NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« on: February 14, 2016, 12:00:07 am »
 :8(): :8(): Welcome to NepsterLems - A big level pack with 111 challenges!  :8(): :8():

Right on time for the 25th anniversary of Lemmings, all my levels are finished, backrouted by the beta testers and fixed again. Have Fun!

Download link of version 2.0 for NeoLemmix V10.15.20 or later:
   https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkrqzojlfrwnen7/NepsterLems.zip?dl=1
If you want to have the old version 1.11 for NeoLemmix V10.13.18 or earlier, then you can still get it here:
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/1erpv2pyqjkxqe4/NepsterLems%20V1.11.nxp?dl=1

Rank 1: Comet (15 levels)

You always have 5 of each skill. The terrain usually gives you many options - and be sure to use them. Despite being the first rank, you will find only very few any-way-you-want levels.

Rank 2: Moon (15 levels)

Now it is up to 10 of each skill - and much more complex obstacles. Even more so than in the first rank, planning a general route at the beginning is advisable.

Rank 3: Planet (20 levels)

Ok, let's start with giving you less and less freedom to solve the levels. The first levels start around Tricky/Taxing difficulty, but soon progress to Mayhem.

Rank 4: Sun (20 levels)

Now you need more and more tricks, unusual combinations of skills, etc. However the solutions are not yet overly convoluted (main word being "overly").

Rank 5: Neutron Star (20 levels)

By now all the levels can easily compete in difficulty with late Mayhem or late Havoc. Be prepared to use non-linear approaches or (and?) heavy multitasking.

Rank 6: Black Hole (21 levels)

These levels should give headaches even to the greatest experts. Go and let the lemmings perform a complex dance on your screen!
Advice: Play the very last level as a save-as-many-as-you-can level. Even getting close to solving the level is a huge achievement!

Many thanks to...
- DMA Design for inventing the game Lemmings,
- Eric Langedijk for creating Lemmix, which was used to create most of the levels,
- namida for providing NeoLemmix, the FlexiToolkit and technical help,
- Akseli, DynaLem, IchoTolot and namida for pre-release testing,
- all other level designers for all their level ideas, that I reused in my levels,
- and everyone on LemmingsForums in general, for keeping Lemmings alive. It was you, more than anything else, that spawned the idea of NepsterLems in my head.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 08:23:41 pm by Nepster »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2016, 12:08:46 am »
Looks like I have sth to play through after my exam phase :thumbsup:

Offline Minim

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 08:58:22 am »
Had a quick look at some of your levels in the pack. Some of those levels are just artistically brilliant, particularly Sun 9 and Planet 7. How did you manage to make some red blocks in the Fire set?!

I also tried the Black Hole rating, and managed to solve one of them! :laugh: I'm not usually well known for solving levels in the hardest difficulty rating, but thought this level looked clear enough what the solution might be. Here's Black Hole 18.

I think this is an excellent pack overall. I'll certainly be trying all of them out later in the day.
The user formerly known as minimac

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 09:36:50 am »
How did you manage to make some red blocks in the Fire set?!
These are lots and lots or the red arrows with the non-red stuff erased and placed above each other with no-overwrite. If you want to study this in greater details: The player allows mass-dumping all levels with F4 on the main menu. Then load 0307.lvl into the editor.

Your solution to Black Hole 18 was introduced by the latest backroute-fix, because I forgot to remove one of the blockers. Still it is close enough to the intended solution to be acceptable.

Offline Proxima

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 02:03:44 pm »
I'm hugely looking forward to trying out this pack when I have time. Just one small point for now -- you clearly have an excellent ability for level aesthetics, so I'm sure there are many beautiful levels also in the Planet rating, and Minim has highlighted Planet 7 as an example. Why, then, use such an ugly level to advertise the rank? It really stands out from the others in this post.

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 02:21:48 pm »
Opinions on aesthetics differ, but seeing that Planet 7 is so popular...

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 05:42:14 pm »
Regarding the recent changes in game mechanics: I am fairly sure all levels remain solvable in V1.43, but I haven't yet confirmed this by updating all ~60 broken replays. As removing the deadly sides gimmick without replacement would force major backroute-fixes, I plan to check everything only after all currently discussed changes are either decided upon and (when applicable) implemented.

Offline mobius

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 10:02:52 pm »
:party:
awesome! I can't wait to try it out. --Don't expect a whole lot of replays since your levels are notoriously hard, but I plan to try and solve as many as I can.

These do all look very nice. Also I'm still curious to the intended solution to Devil's right hand... :-\

EDIT: started playing the first rank; really cool levels so far! and the music is really nice too. I particularly like "One small step for Lemkind". A very neat idea.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 01:39:42 am by möbius »
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakwin Rinzai

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-the Dude


Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2016, 07:32:35 pm »
Finally some time to play it :)

Step 1 was today: Replay every broken replay again of everything I played earlier (because of the backroute fixes + new physics). And now everything is solved again :)

Hope I broke not too many levels ;)  (especially BH 20 for the 3rd time by now i think ???)

Zip file attached!

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 07:37:35 pm »
Ok, the Sun rank has fallen 8-)

Some of the levels here I would consider harder than the beginning of BlackHole! It has really slowed down my progress in a good way :)

Esspecially the last level of the rank was very clever! :thumbsup:    The overall quality of levels is really really great here! :thumbsup:

Sometimes I would add a bit of extra decoration to the sides, but that is simply just my own style ;P 
As Simon said to me in our meetup: "Nepster hat Geschmack!"       And he is right! ;)

Replays attached!

Onto the last 2 ranks, where I will probably get stuck for a long time!

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2016, 08:27:15 pm »
Just found time to watch all your replays. Lots of great solutions there, but unfortunately still some backroutes as well. Will upload a new improved version soon. More detailed comments:

Comet and Moon (click to show/hide)

Planet (click to show/hide)

Sun (click to show/hide)

Neutron Star and Black Hole (click to show/hide)

I would like to encourage everyone else to either post their solutions here or send them to me by PM, even if you have only solved a few levels.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2016, 09:06:33 pm »
Ok, uploaded another version which should have fixed the errors that the replay checker had not caught.

+ NS 4-6 + BH 5 added as a bonus ;)

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2016, 10:18:37 pm »
I finally managed to fix IchoTolot's backroutes (and a few others) and even brought all my replays up to date :laugh:. Version 1.1 is attached to the first post.
Levels that were modified: 3-4, 3-13, 3-16, 4-4, 4-7, 4-8, 4-9, 4-10, 4-18, 5-2, 6-3, 6-4, 6-5, 6-20.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2016, 09:51:11 pm »
My biggest hackjob of all time ;P      After getting really frustrated about Sun 7 :devil:

Replay attached!


Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2016, 08:33:37 pm »
Ok next next bunch of replays :)

Included is everything up to Black Hole 13 + BH 20

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 08:15:20 pm »
Everything is currently solved except for   BH 14 + BH 21    :)

Replays attached!

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2016, 09:36:09 pm »
I updated NepsterLems, so that it stays solvable in new NeoLemmix versions (at least with high probability). This meant removing the deadly sides gimmick from all levels, which may or may not have introduced new backroutes in some levels when played with V1.43.

Apart from that I did fix a lot of IchoTolot's backroutes:
  3-16, 4-7, 4-8, 4-9,5-7, 5-8, 5-11, 5-12, 5-16, 5-18, 5-19, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4, 6-5, 6-7, 6-8, 6-9, 6-11, 6-12, 6-13, 6-16, 6-17, 6-18, 6-19, 6-20
In addition to that, I replaced 4-15 by a completely new level. The old level had un-fixable backroutes and with the oncoming physics changes a few more easy backroutes will become possible. So a level from "Return of the Tribes" got moved here.

The following levels were solved by IchoTolot in a non-intended way, but the solutions were comparable in difficulty and beauty to the intended solutions, so they will stay:
  4-10, 4-11, 4-13, 4-18, 5-4, 5-13, 5-14, 5-15, 6-6, 6-15.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2016, 07:04:33 pm »
Alright, updated replays here 8-)

Everything solved except  BH  9 ,14 + 21

Offline Wafflem

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2016, 02:09:28 am »
Here are some replays! Most of the levels are ones I've already beaten during testing, so I'm only posting those that may be backroutes.

Planet 3 "Another Miner Problem" - I have one miner left.
Planet 15 "A Stroll on the Lawn" - I'm left with one climber. Not sure if the climber is meant to be a decoy.
Planet 17 "Minor Obstacles" - this one looks like a major backroute. But, if this is the type of level that is meant to have multiple solutions, I would switch it with Planet 9 "Lemming Playground" since the latter really boggles my mind and it's a two-of-everything level.
Sun 4 "Sewer Lemmings" - might be a backroute since I am left with one blocker.
Sun 11 "It's hero time again!" - this one's definitely a backroute.
Neutron Star 5 "Silence on Earth" - this one is definitely one as well.

Overall, I can only beat the Comet, Moon, and almost all of the Planet levels. Other than that, it was a great experience testing this pack! It is extremely hard, but it really feels very rewarding once you beat the harder levels!
YouTube: www.tinyurl.com/YTWafflem
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/Wafflem467

Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 04:11:52 pm »
IchoTolot: You have produced another 18 backroutes :(, though some of them start resembling the intended solution. At least Black Hole 19 (Devil's Right Hand) is essentially geoo's solution, thus completely acceptable. And I decided to accept you solution to Black Hole 17 (Everclimbing Lemming) as well, although it changes quite a bit regarding the order of the skill assignments and the way some obstacles are passed.

DynaLem:
- Planet 3: Intended solution. The other miner is only there to avoid the pixel precise placement in your solution.
- Planet 15: Another slight variation of the intended solution.
- Planet 17: This is a rather open-ended level. However I am not sure, if I want to keep your solution, as it looks quite a bit simpler than the ones I have seen until now. Switching it with Planet 9 might be a good idea nevertheless.
- Sun 4: Having a blocker spare is no problem at all.
- Sun 11: Yes, I have to fix this.
- Neutron Star 5: It is certainly not the intended solution. But given all the other alternative solution (that cannot be easily fixed), I decided to accept (almost) all solutions. So your solution is fine.

Offline Wafflem

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 04:34:46 pm »
Hmmmm...I'd switch Sun 4 with either Planet 14 "Just a quickie!" or Planet 18 "Divorce" then. Planet 14 is difficult - a 30-second level with a one-of-everything skillset and a 99 release rate, all of which make it feel like an early-Sun level. Divorce could also work in Sun because it's a big level with so many obstacles and LOTS of planning that it also boggles my mind. Note that Sun 4 is the only Sun level I've beaten. You could maybe do a three-way switch:
Sun 4 --> Planet 14 --> Planet 18 --> Sun 4

I would also put Neutron Star 5 in an earlier rank - maybe Planet.

Also, forgot one more replay - a backroute to Sun 1 "Five do not survive". Had to reproduce this one since the other replay is in another computer.

EDIT: And Neutron Star 8 "Three Little Lemmings", which is also likely a backroute.
EDIT 2:Here's Neutron Star 14 "I smell something rotten here...", also a backroute.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 02:55:02 pm by DynaLem »
YouTube: www.tinyurl.com/YTWafflem
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Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2016, 02:50:22 pm »
Uploaded NepsterLems V1.3 with backroute fixes for the following levels:
  3-16, 3-17, 4-1, 4-9, 4-11, 4-15, 5-7, 5-8, 5-11, 5-19, 6-3, 6-4, 6-5, 6-7, 6-8, 6-11, 6-12, 6-13, 6-16, 6-18, 6-20
Some levels got swapped as suggested by DynaLem and IchoTolot (though not always in precisely the manner they suggested).

V1.3 fixes as well DynaLems backroutes to "Five do not survive" and "Three Little Lemmings". I only saw the latest edit right now, so "I smell something rotten here..." will only get fixed in V1.4 (assuming it is indeed a backroute).

Offline Wafflem

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2016, 04:01:44 pm »
Just want to point out that NepsterLems is still displayed as version 1.2 in the main post.

Forgot to mention a Comet switch suggestion:
Comet 12 "Neighbour Help" is way too hard for its position (I'd say second-hardest to Ninjas in the Attic), while Comet 13 "Underground Labyrinth"and Comet 14 "Curiosity", the solutions stand out more. This level also really feels like the level that would work towards very-late Comet. So, a three-way switch would work:
Comet 12 --> Comet 14 --> Comet 13 --> Comet 12

Planet 5 "Earth Cube" should be switched with Planet 8 "Fifty-one steps to heaven," if my replay to Planet 8 is not a backroute. I feel Planet 8 is the type that has multiple solutions and it stands out more than Planet 5's.

Also, how's this solution to Planet 9 "Minor Obstacles"?
YouTube: www.tinyurl.com/YTWafflem
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Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2016, 04:08:49 pm »
Uploaded NepsterLems V1.3 with backroute fixes for the following levels:
  3-16, 3-17, 4-1, 4-9, 4-11, 4-15, 5-7, 5-8, 5-11, 5-19, 6-3, 6-4, 6-5, 6-7, 6-8, 6-11, 6-12, 6-13, 6-16, 6-18, 6-20
Some levels got swapped as suggested by DynaLem and IchoTolot (though not always in precisely the manner they suggested).

V1.3 fixes as well DynaLems backroutes to "Five do not survive" and "Three Little Lemmings". I only saw the latest edit right now, so "I smell something rotten here..." will only get fixed in V1.4 (assuming it is indeed a backroute).

Which levels exactly were swapped?

Could you write a changelog for this here as well, so that I can simply just swap the replay names in my folder ----> fixing replays again would be a lot easier this way ;P

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2016, 04:19:46 pm »
Which levels exactly were swapped?

Could you write a changelog for this here as well, so that I can simply just swap the replay names in my folder ----> fixing replays again would be a lot easier this way ;P
If you download NepsterLems via the download link in the first post, you always get the current ChangeLog.txt as well, where you can find more details about all the changes, including swapped positions. For V1.2 -> V.13 the changed positions are
  3-9 <-> 3-17
  3-14 <-> 4-4
  4-9 <-> 5-5
  5-18 <-> 6-4

DynaLem: I prefer not to make position changes, if it is just moving a level two positions later. This is just too much work for everyone updating their replays to new positions. I will make a note about Planet 5 vs. 8 though, but unless I change a few other level positions as well, these levels will likely stay at their current positions now.

PS: Your solution to "I smell something rotten here..." is indeed a backroute.

Offline namida

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2016, 01:52:54 am »
Just downloaded the latest version and will start doing a video playthrough soon.

One thing - the music pack won't work unless the filename of the music pack matches that of the NXP (- ".nxp", + "_music.dat", not case sensitive). So, either the NXP should be "NepsterLems.nxp" or the music pack should be "NepsterLems V1.3_Music.dat".

EDIT: A heads up to anyone else playing this pack and intending to record - don't use the custom music, as many tracks are flagged for copyright by Youtube; most just cause "Not available in Germany", but at least one outright causes the entire video's audio to be muted. A shame really, because there's some very nice music in here.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 05:10:48 am by namida »
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Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2016, 10:56:52 pm »
Interesting to hear that, especially as you pointed out in IRC that the music to level 12 in rank 1 is one of the main offenders: It is the part "Quam olim Abrahae" of Bruckner's requiem in d-minor, which was written 167 years ago. I really thought it would no longer be copyrighted...
Given this info I will probably change my plans and stick to the usual tunes instead of using some works by Chopin and Dvorak for future level packs.

PS to everyone making video playthroughs: Please save your replays and send them to me. I find it much more convenient and faster to check replays via replay files instead of watching videos on youtube.

Offline namida

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2016, 04:10:31 am »
Quote
It is the part "Quam olim Abrahae" of Bruckner's requiem in d-minor, which was written 167 years ago. I really thought it would no longer be copyrighted...

The music itself wouldn't be, but the specific performance of it could be.

Quote
PS to everyone making video playthroughs: Please save your replays and send them to me. I find it much more convenient and faster to check replays via replay files instead of watching videos on youtube.

I have replay auto-saving on, so I'll be able to send you these too. Do you want them as I complete them, or in one go when I finish (or maybe as I finish each rank)?
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2016, 03:58:24 pm »
The music itself wouldn't be, but the specific performance of it could be.
Perhaps, though the recodings are anything but recent. Anyway, to be on the safe side, I removed the music pack from any download.

I have replay auto-saving on, so I'll be able to send you these too. Do you want them as I complete them, or in one go when I finish (or maybe as I finish each rank)?
Whenever you think sending me the replays makes sense.

Offline namida

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2016, 04:35:06 pm »
The music itself wouldn't be, but the specific performance of it could be.
Perhaps, though the recodings are anything but recent. Anyway, to be on the safe side, I removed the music pack from any download.

I have replay auto-saving on, so I'll be able to send you these too. Do you want them as I complete them, or in one go when I finish (or maybe as I finish each rank)?
Whenever you think sending me the replays makes sense.

Re: music pack; Unless we actually receive a complaint of some kind (unlikely), I'm not going to remove the link or insist you don't post them here just because Youtube flags them in videos. Of course, if you want to do so to err on the side of caution for your own sake, then that may indeed be the safer option. Regarding that specific track, from what I can gather the recording is from 1987, so probably old enough that legal trouble is unlikely in practice, but definitely new enough to be covered by copyright.

Re: Replays, I'll send them as I finish each rank then. I'll PM you the Comet ones now.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 05:07:42 pm by namida »
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2016, 04:20:41 pm »
Everything again solved except for   BH 14+ 21   ;P

I will again upload my whole folder, because of the switching around levels and fixing earlier ones which I did not backroute on top, I am not sure anymore which I had to replay again :P

When the fix list gets hopefully smaller with the next patches, I will switch up to upload only the levels I had to replay again (sry for now Nepster :laugh:)

Offline namida

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2016, 04:48:57 pm »
Quote
I will again upload my whole folder, because of the switching around levels and fixing earlier ones which I did not backroute on top, I am not sure anymore which I had to replay again :P

Use the mass replay tester against your old folder! ;)
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2016, 05:53:15 pm »
Quote
I will again upload my whole folder, because of the switching around levels and fixing earlier ones which I did not backroute on top, I am not sure anymore which I had to replay again :P

Use the mass replay tester against your old folder! ;)

Well, I overwrote the old stuff  with the new :P   I am not keeping that amount of replays.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2016, 12:00:05 pm »
Seeing namida also had bigger problems with Sun 7 -----> swap it with BH 1 at least!     Now I have the proof that I wasn't just braindead back when I played it. ;P

Sun 7 is quite harder than a bunch of BH levels in my opinion + I am continuing to mention that, but BH 1 is way too easy for the last rank :8():

So Sun 7 should 100% go up there!

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2016, 05:18:30 pm »
And once again an updated version:
1) Backroute fixes to: 3-4, 3-5, 3-16, 3-20, 5-7, 5-8, 5-14, 6-3, 6-9, 6-11, 6-12, 6-13, 6-16, 6-20
2) Added 14 talismans:
  • Comet 5: Save every lemming using only 10 skills in total. (Bronze)
  • Comet 10: Solve the level using at most 3 of each skill. (Bronze)
  • Comet 13: Solve the level using only 1 miner. (Bronze)
  • Moon 8: Save every lemming. (Bronze)
  • Planet 9: Save 19 out of 20 lemmings. (Bronze)
  • Planet 10: Save every lemming. (Bronze)
  • Comet 3: Solve the level in 30 seconds. (Silver)
  • Comet 7: Save every lemming. (Silver)
  • Comet 15: Save every lemming. (Silver)
  • Moon 12: Solve the level using only 2 builders. (Silver)
  • Moon 15: Solve the level using at most 9 of each skill. (Silver)
  • Moon 10: Save 94 out of 100 lemmings. (Gold)
  • Neutron Star 14: Solve the level using only 2 bashers. (Gold)
  • Black Hole 21: Solve Final Frustration using only 100 skills in total. (Gold) [Sorry, I just couldn't resist...]

The suggestion to swap Sun 7 and Black Hole 1 is noted, and a change like that will likely occur in one of the future updates.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2016, 08:16:36 am »
Alright, played again today and everything is now solved except for BH 21, which I not even tried yet :P     
Finally BH 14 has fallen and I cant believe it took so long to see that (once you saw it) really simple trick.

All replays attached, all working with the stable NL version +NepsterLems 1.4.

The replays that needed replaying should be consistant with Nepsters fix list and I think I found even more backroutes :devil:

Offline Wafflem

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2016, 12:36:25 pm »
Here are some more replays! I've attempted some of the talismans. I'd say that Comet 13 "The Underground Labyrinth" is the most clever one you've made! :thumbsup: Moon 8 "Burning Shadows" was also very challenging.

Moon 10 "Lots of small tasks" is an attempt.

Sun 5 "Blast the Lemmings" should be a backroute. Not sure about my solutions to Sun 17 "Dirt Runner" and Neutron Star 15 "Poor Wee Creatures - Twin Edition".

I haven't beaten Comet 3's (Don't Cross Me!) talisman yet, but when I hit the button to exit the level, for some reason I got the talisman. I didn't save a replay for that one.

By the way, in the Talisman screen, it says Neutron Star 5, but in your 1.4 update post it says Neutron Star 14. Which Neutron Star level are you referring to?
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Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2016, 03:21:32 pm »
Warning! Great self praising incomming! ;P

So tried BH 21 today and after a lot of tries........... Who's da man! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

Solved BH 21 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great level! The struggle to get those last destructive skills is maddening! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

That's my type of level ;)   Is the music track from Metal Gear Rising Revengence? Greatly helped me not giving up and pushed me forward :)

So with the current version I can proudly say: NepsterLems solved! 8-) (at least until the next fix for the few backrouted levels comes out)

Some stats of my replay:

Time ~ 21mins

Skills used:

19 Climbers

19 Floaters

6 Blockers

20 Builders

20 Bashers

20 Miners

20 Diggers

114 Skills total  (Great potential to save a lot of Athletes and maybe some Blockers)

Replay Attached!

Offline Minim

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2016, 06:39:02 pm »
That replay is quite simply, Nicht zu fassen! Over 20 minutes of clever skill usage. Looking at that it seems like you did all that in one try! :lem-shocked:

I declare for now that BH 21 is the greatest level ever created, and that IchoTolot is the greatest level solver ever. :thumbsup: Well done to both of you!
The user formerly known as minimac

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2016, 06:48:16 pm »
That replay is quite simply, Nicht zu fassen! Over 20 minutes of clever skill usage. Looking at that it seems like you did all that in one try! :lem-shocked:

I declare for now that BH 21 is the greatest level ever created, and that IchoTolot is the greatest level solver ever. :thumbsup: Well done to both of you!

Well thanks for the compliment :)

Rewatching this there are quite a few ways to save some skills, especially in the first part. Nepster told me that I quite altered the solution there (100% expected in such a level :P) and I begin to see some ways of optimising processes (saving some destuctive skills mainly   freeing that first blocker + the first ascend are a bit suboptimal). So it's far from perfect, but it gets the 100% + letting Nepster see that the 100 skill solution can be cut down to 95 ;)

Offline Nepster

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2016, 08:18:58 pm »
Here the new version V1.5 which fixes backroutes by IchoTolot, namida and Wafflem for levels:
  4-1, 4-5, 4-8, 4-11, 4-12, 4-13, 4-16, 5-7, 5-15, 6-3, 6-9, 6-11, 6-12, 6-13, 6-16, 6-20
Moreover the talismans in V1.4 did not check the save requirement properly, which is fixed now. Thanks to Wafflem for noticing a typo in the talisman descriptions: Only Neutron Star 14 has a talisman, not Neutron Star 5.

Solved BH 21 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations to an amazing solution! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2016, 02:27:13 pm »
Didn't play the last week to solve BH 9+11 again, but I am uploading my replays in advance to allow you to fix the others in the meantime.

4-1, 4-5, 4-8, 4-11, 4-12, 4-13, 4-16, 5-7, 5-15, 6-3, (6-9, 6-11), 6-12, 6-13, 6-16, 6-20

must/should be checked again by you.

Will try BH 9+11 probably again with the next patch, but me not instantly solving them might be a good sign here ;)

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2016, 02:14:18 pm »
And we have reached version 1.6. Two main changes were made:
1) Backroute-fixes for 3-6, 5-2, 6-3, 6-12, 6-13, 6-16, 6-20.
2) Removed some exploders: Apart from X-of-all level (first two ranks and Final Frustration), the number of exploder now never exceeds the number of lemmings that may die in the level.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2016, 01:50:05 pm »
Fixed up all replays again today except for BH 9 + 11 which I did not try again yet (aren't really my favorites to play on top of that :P).

So the levels changed in the last patch should be checked again and I think I got a few more intended now as I really have a strong feeling that this MUST be intended! :)

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2016, 07:20:01 pm »
Comments on IchoTolot's new solutions:
 6-3 (Rule of One): Very nice and clever solution. I consider this acceptable, even though it completely misses the main trick of the intended solution. :P
 6-13 (Another Generic Title): Slight variation of the intended solution.
 6-12, 6-16 and 6-20: Backroutes (as you probably guessed).

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2016, 06:36:35 pm »
BH 9 + 11 solved once more! 8-)

That makes the pack completely solved again in the current version, but as Nepster already mentioned 12, 16, 20 + probably 11 still need fixing and therefore more solving ;P

Replays attached.

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2016, 08:56:23 pm »
Version 1.7 is available. It contains (as predicted by IchoTolot) another round of changes for levels 6-11, 6-12, 6-16 and 6-20.

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2016, 01:06:30 pm »
Alright, fixed them up again and I feel like most of them are intended now (but hell what do I know :P).

Maybe BH 16 is not quite there yet.

BH 11 seems backrouted again :XD:

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2016, 05:25:52 pm »
V1.8: Updated to NeoLemmix V1.47 and backroute-fixes for levels 5-7, 5-8, 5-9, 6-11, 6-16 and 6-20.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2016, 12:43:08 am »
Solved a few levels in a quick session again today :)

BH 20 and 11 are still to go though. I really don't like BH 11 :P

NS 9 did not break for me.

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2016, 10:03:22 am »
And BH 20 is also solved again 8-)

This must be intended this time! I have a feeling! ;P

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: NepsterLems - Release thread
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2016, 12:26:06 pm »
BH 11 has fallen again.

But now everything looks and plays a bit like a hackjob on this though :P

I suspect another backroute.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2017, 07:33:06 pm »
After 4 months of hiatus, here a new updated version of NepsterLems:
- Updated to the newest player version V10.12.12.
- Backroute fixes for levels: 3-7, 5-10, 5-11, 6-15 (formerly 6-11), 6-19 (formerly 6-16)
- A bit of reordering: 5-12 <-> 6-1; 6-7  <-> 6-17; 6-11 <-> 6-15; 6-16 <-> 6-19

Offline mobius

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2017, 01:40:48 am »
here are three replays for the Planet rank. One may be a backroute.

Oh, I apologize but I was using 1.8, because the music wasn't working on 1.9 . You'll need to tell me what to do again to fix that.
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Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2017, 09:23:39 pm »
Time for an update to version 1.10:
- Backroute fixes to Divorce, HangLem and One Minute of Action.
- Fixed talisman condition for Something Rotten.

Moreover I added a description how to get the music pack working to the first post.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2017, 12:54:24 pm »
Time for an update to version 1.10:
- Backroute fixes to Divorce, HangLem and One Minute of Action.

Time for more backroutes for HangLem and One Minute of Action as well :evil:

Hanglem is looking more and more like swiss cheese filled with spike traps :P    Maybe consider altering the intended solution to make the level(s) fixable or change the swiss cheese effect. I can assure you that at least Hanglem I would still consider as extremly hard in this stage with my solution!

Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2017, 09:28:34 pm »
Time for a new version V1.11:
- Backroute fixes to 5-19, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4, 6-5, 6-7, 6-15, 6-19
- 15 levels with reduced number of lemmings (mostly changed from 50-80 to 20)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2017, 12:44:34 pm »
Here are my updated replays. Including new solution to BH 2 and 5 :)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2017, 08:24:48 pm »
The first post contains now a download link to the new-formats version of NepsterLems.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2017, 06:16:01 pm »
Okay, I didn't expect to find any remaining backroutes in this old classic, but apparently I may have done just that. This is for the version 1.11 before the last update, but I didn't get to ranks 4-6 yet anyway. Here's how far I've got (roughly up to the end of Planet, with skipping some levels in between):

Some single level remarks:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2017, 08:35:37 pm »
Thanks a lot. :thumbsup: Among the first two ranks there are a lot of alternative solutions, that I haven't seen before.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 08:48:01 pm by Nepster »

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2017, 08:41:12 pm »
Thanks for your quick reply! So is Jump in the Ring a backroute, then? (Since I don't know the intended solution, I'm not sure whether you could change any of the skills to prevent what I have done. ;) )

I'm always checking back with namida's old LP of your pack, because I enjoy commentated LPs more than just replay files. However, he of course had more backroutes available, among them "The Block-Store" and "Pillar of Lemkind". I tried his backroute on "The Block-Store" and saw that you removed it, just like you shortened the broken pillar in Pillar of Lemkind so that one can't just simply bash straight to the right anymore.

I'll have to see at which point in your pack IchoTolot has arrived in the meantime :) .

PS: That's the planet rank you're referring to, not the moon rank :P .
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2017, 08:47:47 pm »
Thanks for your quick reply! So is Jump in the Ring a backroute, then? (Since I don't know the intended solution, I'm not sure whether you could change any of the skills to prevent what I have done. ;) )
I wouldn't call it a backroute, just an overcomplicated one. Anyway, there is basically no way to remove it, even if I wanted to.

I'll have to see at which point in your pack IchoTolot has arrived in the meantime :) .
He was already a beta-tester, but recorded his solutions only later.

PS: That's the planet rank you're referring to, not the moon rank :P .
Thanks. Fixed.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2017, 09:40:36 pm »
I waited for my solutions to be uploaded until they were all acceptable. That means no backroutes and alternative solutions at most. :)

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2017, 11:46:06 am »
Now I'm just curious: Is that the alternate NL-route to "A Study in Scarlet" Simon spoke of? It seems quite precise and I never could get it to work in the Lix-version. (Played with pack v. 2.0 and NL v. 11.15.24)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 11:59:18 am by Forestidia86 »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2017, 04:05:51 pm »
Yes, everything correct: This is the alternative solution in the NeoLemmix version, it is rather precise, and it doesn't work in the Lix version.

PS: I will look into your NepsterLix replays over the next few days.

Offline Nessy

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2017, 04:01:17 am »
I just want to jump in here and say that Forestidia86's solution was actually the first solution I found to "A Study in Scarlet". I didn't even know the other solution existed to be honest. It's still one of my favorites not only because of the aesthetics but because it's an excellent puzzle level and was my first real head scratcher.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2018, 12:05:50 pm »
Sorry that I'm posting again just one solution but I'm just curious if it is intended.

Sun 8 - "Minimalistic Platforms" - Nepsterlems v. 2.0, played with NL player v. 12.01.00

Edit:
I looked at the Lix replay from the replay collection and it seems my solution is indeed intended. I actually don't know why it is ranked so high compared to the difficulty of the other levels. But it is harder and tighter to pull off in Nepsterlems I have to admit.
Sorry, Nepster, for bothering you with it basically twice.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 05:50:47 pm by Forestidia86 »

Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2018, 03:32:18 pm »
I think I may have backrouted this Black Hole level.
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Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2018, 12:47:08 am »
I have completed the Comet rank.

Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2018, 02:34:52 pm »
I have completed the Moon rank.

Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2018, 04:01:01 pm »
I have completed the Planet rank.

Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2018, 04:12:35 pm »
I have completed the Sun rank.

Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2018, 07:06:57 pm »
I have completed the Neutron Star rank.

Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2018, 04:57:38 pm »
I have completed the Black Hole rank.

Offline Akseli

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #75 on: August 09, 2018, 07:41:00 pm »
Another pack I'm revisiting now in new formats, I beta tested NepsterLems in January 2016 and played it to some extent after the initial release if I'm deriving my replay time stamps correctly. Now after loads of backroute fixes I've solved 79/111, replays attached. This is the first time I played Moon levels 7-15, they looked a bit daunting at first but turned out to be a lot nicer in the end. I didn't attempt Black Hole levels, because I have still 12 levels unsolved before that final rating, but I still thought of dropping my solutions at this point so they're at least saved here in the forums before my hard drive dies or something. :b

Levels I suspect backrouting: Planet 16: Dying Dream, Neutron Star 10: Broken Pillars, Neutron Star 16: On the Edge of Death

Not quite sure about even some early Planet levels, I'm interested to hear about my solutions when the time comes.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #76 on: August 21, 2018, 02:04:01 pm »
Okay, I revisited just the final level (Black Hole 21) - pretty much exactly one year after my first attempt - after having been told by Nepster that he doesn't consider it a "good level" (anymore? ;) ) and about his philosophy having changed.

I actually think it's pretty genious - there's always even more skills which are locked in the place where they have to be used than one would think :thumbsup: . As far as X-of-everything levels are concerned, this is as good as they're going to get!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The only thing that makes it "not a good level" is the RIDICULOUS pixel precision required all over it! :devil:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've attached to replays, both centered around the core issue of how to deal with the pillars at the exit. As far as I can tell, I did exactly what IchoTolot did at this place...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know from my own levels that pixel precision can be unintended, but in the last level of a pack, I doubt it ;) . Since this is the type of pixel precision that can prevent a solution from being successful even when it's conceptually correct, I have to object to IchoTolot's praise of this level as a prime example of "fair" difficulty.
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #77 on: August 21, 2018, 03:10:15 pm »
Quote
Since this is the type of pixel precision that can prevent a solution from being successful even when it's conceptually correct, I have to object to IchoTolot's praise of this level as a prime example of "fair" difficulty.

I think you don't understand what I personally define as "fair".

Pixel precision is fair, even if you have to rewind all of the level due to an unprecise mistake. Is it good? Certainly not, we want to prevent these things.
Is a timer unfair that cuts tons of solutions of by 1 second? No, but it's still bad.

I call levels unfair that actively hide stuff from the players eye. Hidden traps, hidden pick-up-skills etc.

Overall my praise to the level partly comes from a developed automated optimisation playstyle. Over the years I got used to automatically find and go for an ~optimal route, purely in terms of reaching the goal. This isn't always the intended one of course and it's only optimal in my current view of the level.
That way I don't mind having to do a bunch of very precise actions, as a bunch of them I do intuitively.
Does it anger me when I have to rewind a lot? Yes and I will criticise it.
Does it anger me when there is an excessive ammount of very precise actions? At some threshhold yes and I will point that out.

Also I learned to use the things at my disposal (skill shadows, save-states) to nullify the precision and rewinding to an ammount. Well placed save-states at critical points in time and making good use of replay insert can help quite a bit.
 
It's also the general layout of the level that made me forgive the faults and I can highly advertise those for your huge levels:
- Mostly contained crowds (only 1 active crowd would be optimal and if there are more active ones let them be close)
- No timer
- No extensive need for multitasking
- You only have to watch 1 area at the same time. --> less scrolling
These traits fit for this level, therefore making me forgive the precision.

In the end I just loved puzzeling my way through this level while doing stuff as optimised as possible.
+ The fact that it's the last boss level of a very difficult pack makes me somewhat more forgiving, but still there is a threshhold for that. ;)

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2018, 04:16:29 pm »
Quote
It's also the general layout of the level that made me forgive the faults and I can highly advertise those for your huge levels:
- Mostly contained crowds (only 1 active crowd would be optimal and if there are more active ones let them be close)
- No timer
- No extensive need for multitasking
- You only have to watch 1 area at the same time. --> less scrolling
These traits fit for this level, therefore making me forgive the precision.

Thanks for the advice! ;) All those things happen to be the case for most of my levels from Lemmings World Tour already, though. Of course, the players are always free to bring multitasking on themselves :D , but especially in "The Grand Puzzle", which took a lot of inspirations from "Final Frustration", the crowds are usually easily containable as well. Contrary to late Mayhem levels, it's not that there aren't enough blockers to contain all the different crowds - it's the question of how to free all those blockers in the end again, because everyone has to be saved (or, in case of "The Grand Puzzle", you're only allowed 1 death).

That's also the reason why attempting a level like "Final Frustration" is more fun to me than timing-based levels with deliberately oddly-shaped terrain where crowd control is next to impossible.

Still, the rewinding is mainly a pain in combination with the overall duration of the level. It's not the duration per se, nor is it the fact of having to rewind due to pixel precision, but the combination of both makes things exponentially worse ;) . With every restart, you're sitting there for quite a while holding down the space bar until you arrive back at the time stamp your currently working on. Or you're asking yourself "What's faster at this point - rewinding in 1-second-steps, or starting from the beginning in 10-second-steps?" :D

I already saved several replays manually (since the two I attached were ultimately not successful, i.e. not automatically saved). Replay editing helps, but at one point when I edited out a specific skill and left the rest as it was, a builder still ended up being misplaced.
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #79 on: August 21, 2018, 05:20:43 pm »
I actually think it's pretty genious - there's always even more skills which are locked in the place where they have to be used than one would think :thumbsup: . As far as X-of-everything levels are concerned, this is as good as they're going to get!
I am very happy you liked the level. But that doesn't alter the fact, that my own taste changed...

The only thing that makes it "not a good level" is the RIDICULOUS pixel precision required all over it! :devil:
Sorry, but most of the precision is self-inflicted.
1) There is actually not a single place, where lemmings have to step up more than 4 pixels, as long as you don't care about the talisman.
2) There is actually no fall, that requires something close to the maximal fall height.
3) While basher-digger-staircases do help, my own solution uses just two steps like this.
4) Given that the miner-shadows now take blockers into account, placing them to free blockers is fairly easy.
Yes, of course you can do all of that, but removing the possibility of doing this (or at least trying to do) is simply beyond my designing skills in such a 20-of-everything level.

I've attached to replays, both centered around the core issue of how to deal with the pillars at the exit. As far as I can tell, I did exactly what IchoTolot did at this place...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know from my own levels that pixel precision can be unintended, but in the last level of a pack, I doubt it ;).
Pixel precision is never put there on purpose. It might be, that I simply couldn't avoid it or that I failed miserably to discourage pixel-precise attempts. But I certainly never left it in there, just to make the level harder or to annoy my players - and for this it doesn't make any difference, whether the level is the very first or very last level in the pack.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« Reply #80 on: August 21, 2018, 05:52:50 pm »
Thanks for the reply, Nepster! ;)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels