Author Topic: Integral Lemmings  (Read 10756 times)

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Offline ∫tan x dx

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Integral Lemmings
« on: September 19, 2018, 09:32:46 PM »
Hi all. I'm a long time fan of the lemmings series and I'd like to present you with my first level pack!

Integral Lemmings

This is a pack for the latest version of NeoLemmix (V12.03.01). It consists of two ranks, each with ten levels.
The rank Epsilon levels use the classic skillset whereas the Delta levels use some of the new features and skills that NeoLemmix provides.
The two ranks are of roughly equal difficulty, and the levels in each pack get progressively harder.

Download Integral Lemmings V5 here!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgorllnqhaf14qz/IntegralLemmingsV5.zip?dl=1

Changelog for version 2:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Changelog for version 3:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Changelog for version 4:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Changelog for version 5:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Feedback, suggestions, comments and criticisms are appreciated!

Enjoy!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 11:10:45 PM by ∫tan x dx »

Offline Flopsy

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 10:19:50 PM »
Welcome to the forums tan x dx :)

This level pack is very well designed and you clearly have worked hard on it at first glance.
I'm interested in recording myself playing this level pack and that will be valuable feedback to yourself, the levels do look very difficult but they look like they will be fun to attempt.

The only immediately critique I have of this level pack in general is it is generally not common practice to have a time limit for every single level in the pack. We usually have an unwritten rule here that time limits should only be used when the challenge of the level warrants it. A couple of good examples to use from the standard Lemmings games are "Just A Minute", "ONWARDS AND UPWARDS", "Welcome to the Party Pal" etc.
I can see a couple of levels in the pack where this rule could apply, the ones where the time limits are generally smaller like 3:00 could be ok. Without playing the levels I don't have a precise answer to this, you rarely get much from adding a 7-8 min time limit to a level though for example.

I think what I'm saying is, the levels look hard enough already without the time limits being there to turn our potential solves into no solves because we weren't quick enough to execute the solution. It can be aggravating and result in the pack not being as much fun and this pack although small looks like it can be a lot of fun so it is such a minor thing which can be easily fixed :).

Maybe you didn't know that having no time limit levels was acceptable, I can assure you they are most welcome :)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 09:12:37 PM by Flopsy »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 11:09:02 PM »
I am greatly impressed with the pack so far! :thumbsup:  I can even see glances of my own level creation style in some levels! ;)

I've played through Epsilon and will continue with Delta tomorrow, as it is rather late here. ;)

I've attached my replays to this post and will post detailed feedback when I'm through with the pack.

Generally as Flopsy said I can only see 1 level in the first level that benefits from a time limit, that being the 3:00 dirt one.

Great pack so far and welcome to the forums! :thumbsup:

Offline Crane

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 11:15:30 PM »
Welcome to the forums, ln|sec x| + C.  I'll definitely start having a look at your pack.  Good for more people to join our little family!

Offline namida

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 06:45:32 AM »
Just a tip - with DropBox links, change the dl=0 to dl=1 at the end, then the link will work as a direct download (instead of having to go through the DropBox splash page).

Going to take a look at this pack. :) Welcome to the forums!



Okay, I played the first three levels.

The first level was pretty clever, took me a while to solve.
I think the second might be a backroute. If it's intended, it's pretty clever.
The third one... holy shit, this level is crazy hard. I'm not sure this isn't a backroute, and even this took me well over an hour to find. If it is the intended solution, that's a lot of precision...

I agree with the sentiment about the time limits being unnecessary, although at least they were set high enough that they weren't a problem.

I'll continue on this later, but I'm definitely very impressed so far.



Okay, I played the rest of Epsilon. I'll play Delta another time, maybe tomorrow.

I'm very impressed. These are all great levels - some easier than others for sure, but they're all very good.

The 4th one, I suspect might be another backroute.
The 5th one is one of my favorites! :D That's a really clever level.
The 6th one is another really neat level. I got the left side almost right away (I've used that trick many times in my own levels), but it took me a while to figure out how to handle the right side.
The 7th one was fairly easy. I saw the solution right away, it was just a matter of figuring out how to make it work, which didn't take too long either. It's still a good level, just relatively easy by this pack's standards.
The 8th one, almost every one of my packs contains (at least one) level using this kind of trick, so I had no trouble at all with this one.
The 9th one was a really fun level. Despite the time limit being low, it didn't really feel particularly tight.
And finally, the final level of Epsilon... this was second only to level 3 in terms of how long it took me to solve, but this time it was purely a matter of figuring the solution out, rather than messing around with precision. This was an INCREDIBLE level! :D A very likely LOTY2018 candidate here!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 10:16:45 AM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 10:41:11 AM »
I solved the pack and hui the Delta rank was quite a challenge. ;)

I've attached my full set of replays.

Feedback (I left the timer issue out for the most part here):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All in all this jumps right up into my favorite packs list :thumbsup: and the things I learned could inspire me to create a few more levels for my United pack, which comes slowly close to completion now. ;)

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 10:17:30 PM »
Hi everybody!

Thank you all so, so much for all of your kind words! This is indeed a lovely community! :thumbsup:

I've uploaded a version 2 of integral lemmings based on the feedback I have received so far.
See the op for the change log and updated download link.

A word of warning, those who have found backroutes to levels will have to retry them, although I'm sure they still won't pose too much of a challenge to you crafty folk! ;)

Offline namida

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 04:39:31 AM »
I checked over my replays in the new version. Any I don't mention, my old replay still works.

Epsilon 2: Only took some minor tweaks to make my solution work again.
Epsilon 4: Here, too, it just took some slight tweaks to get my solution to work again.
Epsilon 8: I didn't try the talisman again yet, but I think I know the general idea - it's still pretty much the same thing, just a lot more frustrating to execute.
Epsilon 10: Okay, this feels intended. That's a really good level!
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 09:40:03 AM »
I've updated my replays.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline namida

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2018, 08:00:38 PM »
Quote
IchoTolot re Epsilon 6 (click to show/hide)

I tried this initially too, figured out it didn't work, then came up with an alternate approach. I don't think two pixels will indicate it very clearly in this case - it's still splat height at the top of the bridge (yet close enough to it that it isn't clearly so without testing or using the distance ruler) either way, while still 24 ~ 26 pixels more from the very bottom. It needs to be moved down by significantly more than that if the intent is to clearly communicate "this is splat height". With that being said - finding that it was splat height didn't invalidate my whole solution, what I did on the other half of the level still remained part of my final solution, so it is one of the less critical cases of this IMO.

I also solved Delta 1. This feels extremely backroutey, but I can't see any other way to solve it.
EDIT: Solved Delta 2. I could see this one being either intended or backroute, not sure. If it's intended, great level.

Spoilers re Delta 2's solution (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 11:49:05 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2018, 09:15:56 AM »
I totally forgot 1 point in my feedback!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2018, 11:38:59 AM »
Correction: IchoTolot doesn't like hidden traps! :P Sometimes they are unavoidable by design (boulder trap in the Dirt tileset, grappling trap in the Purple tileset, and so on). I don't think people have come so far yet as to not use these traps at all anymore in new levels (because then Nepster would have culled them, I guess :evil: ).

I guess the general consensus among all forum members is, though: "Don't make traps hidden unless it is absolutely inevitable."
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 01:07:50 PM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2018, 04:27:01 PM »
Correction: IchoTolot doesn't like hidden traps! :P Sometimes they are unavoidable by design (boulder trap in the Dirt tileset, grappling trap in the Purple tileset, and so on). I don't think people have come so far yet as to not use these traps at all anymore in new levels (because then Nepster would have culled them, I guess :evil: ).

I guess the general consensus among all forum members is, though: "Don't make traps hidden unless it is absolutely inevitable."

Correction: IchoTolot, Simon, Nepster......(insert user name here) don't like hidden traps. Don't act like I am the only one here!

If your design is only possible with hidden traps than it's just plain bad design! If a trap requires it to be hidden it's a badly designed trap! This fact isn't going to change regardless of how many people don't mind them.  :8():
All people can think the earth is flat, but it's not going to change the truth.
New players most likely don't use the true physics that much and will get furios running into hidden traps.

It was the very first thing I was taught here by nearly everyone playing my levels back in the days - Don't hide your traps! I will glady pass that torch to everyone new.

Here in this case the mashers on Delta 6 would even look way better if they are just under the steel on the top and visible.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2018, 06:21:23 PM »
And Arty and GigaLem have both made use of hidden traps and/or exits in their respective packs. ;) I think GigaLem has changed his stance on hidden traps pretty drastically since then, though, whereas Arty, in one of his SEB Lems LPs with GigaLem as a guest, said just recently that now with clear physics mode, there is no reason to complain about hidden traps ;) .

The main issue with GigaLems is that it's only available for NeoLemmix 1.43, which does not have clear physics yet. That is what makes hidden traps infuriating! :D So of course, back when you joined the forum, everyone told you not to hide your traps because there was no clear physics mode yet! ;)

That's also the reason why I tried harder to avoid them in Lemmicks.

Quote
If a trap requires it to be hidden it's a badly designed trap! This fact isn't going to change regardless of how many people don't mind them.

That's not a fact; that's your opinion ;) . One can also easily make the case that it's a very cleverly designed trap!

I admit my sentence can be misread as if you were the only one against them; your statement, in contrast, can be read as if "hard-to-see traps are an absolute no-go" was a sentiment shared by everyone on the forum ;) .

As I said, my interpretation of the forum consensus is that people agree traps shouldn't be hidden more than necessary. But I haven't read of any widespread appeal so far to not use the boulder trap anymore ;) .

If the forum stance on hidden traps was that unanimous, I'm pretty sure we would have moved on to making traps "no overwrite"-objects by default (and disable any option to do it any other way). Even then, though, the boulder trap from the Dirt set or the grappling arm from Purple would still not be distinguishable from regular terrain.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 06:32:38 PM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2018, 07:32:04 PM »
Quote
And Arty and GigaLem have both made use of hidden traps and/or exits in their respective packs. ;) I think GigaLem has changed his stance on hidden traps pretty drastically since then, though, whereas Arty, in one of his SEB Lems LPs with GigaLem as a guest, said just recently that now with clear physics mode, there is no reason to complain about hidden traps ;) .

The main issue with GigaLems is that it's only available for NeoLemmix 1.43, which does not have clear physics yet. That is what makes hidden traps infuriating! :D So of course, back when you joined the forum, everyone told you not to hide your traps because there was no clear physics mode yet! ;)

I say it again : New players most likely don't use the true physics that much and will get furios running into hidden traps.

Using clear physics as a cheap way out argument for every design issue doesn't make it any better, it doesn't change the core problem about lying to users.

Again: The case that some people don't mind it doesn't make bad design any better. The fact that many people smoke doesn't make it healthier.

Quote
That's not a fact; that's your opinion ;) . One can also easily make the case that it's a very cleverly designed trap!

Sorry, that I would call a fact and I stand for that. Hiding things/features/functions/informations from users is bad design in any kind of program. Any kind of invisible trap can be replaced with a visible one and it's a straight upgrade and no, visuals don't matter here. Of course between the visible ones you wanna choose the best looking one.

Cleverly designed in a visual way don't make the bad design in general go away.

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2018, 10:07:05 PM »
@namida

Regarding Delta 2:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote
I also solved Delta 1. This feels extremely backroutey, but I can't see any other way to solve it.

:lem-mindblown:

Well... that certainly is a backroute if I ever did see one! I've updated the op with V3 of integral lemmings.
That backroute for Delta 1 should now be fixed. I also tweaked Epsilon 2 and 4 again to hopefully fix some backroutes there.
This means that the solutions from IchoTolot and namida for those levels will have to be revisited. ;P

Regarding hidden/obscured traps:
After some consideration I tend to agree that, in general, a trap should be made explicit and obvious as an obstacle.
Looking back at the original lemmings levels there are some really irritating occurrences of hidden traps being placed purely to trip up the player.

For example, the rock trap in Rendezvous at the Mountain, and that pointless icicle trap near the start of ICE SPY.
Possibly the worst offender is the icicle trap (again with this thing) in the level LoTs moRe wHeRe TheY caMe fRom.
That is just an insult to the player, having to deal with the annoying terrain and a random trap placed needlessly.

They usually added nothing anyway, since in those levels you are supposed to simply build over the trap.
By removing that trap (and maybe 1 builder), the level is basically unchanged.

I suppose there are arguments for traps that are concealed to a degree.
The level Easy when you know how might at first glance seem suspiciously easy to a new player, so they may anticipate something occurring as lemmings walk through that passage.
One could even make the case that the icicle trap in ICE SPY is foreshadowed by the level title. Although the icicle trap as a whole reeks of poor design decisions.

Further to this, with the advent of such programs as NeoLemmix, the issue of an unforeseen trap can be alleviated using the replay and rewind functionality.
Thus a player doesn't necessarily have to start the level again when their worker lemming dies randomly, they can step back and adjust their approach.

But counter to this yet again, the player may have thought of a specific solution to a level, and the existence of a hidden trap would probably ruin that solution.
This may possibly result in the whole solution being scrapped, leading to frustration since the player has wasted time on something that, in principle, should have worked.
If the trap is made explicit to begin with then this problem goes away completely.

I suppose in the end there are two things to consider:
- If the trap is meant as a true obstacle that the player will have to carefully plan around, make it obvious.
- If the trap is a "simple" trap that could be bypassed with a single builder, remove both it and the builder!


At any rate, I've modified my level Delta 6 to make the traps explicit. I think this actually improves the level visually as well! :thumbsup:


PS. Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the four crushers in the level Easy when you know how aren't aligned with the four pipe columns above?
That never made any sense to me as a kid.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 10:12:27 PM by ∫tan x dx »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2018, 10:33:27 PM »
Resolved the levels.

Epsilon 2 could be intended now, while 4 should still be a backroute. ;P

Quote
PS. Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the four crushers in the level Easy when you know how aren't aligned with the four pipe columns above?
That never made any sense to me as a kid.

It's probably to fool the player about the masher positions. :P

Offline joshescue18

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2018, 11:07:15 PM »
I've finished this pack.

Offline kokopelli

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2018, 05:37:18 PM »
Hello
I've just downloaded the level pack and extracted the files into the levels folder.
I get the attached error message when i try to run a level. What am I missing?

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2018, 05:56:46 PM »
Hello
I've just downloaded the level pack and extracted the files into the levels folder.
I get the attached error message when i try to run a level. What am I missing?

Did you get the styles set that comes with NeoLemmix?

The installer from the mainpage https://www.neolemmix.com/ should get both: player + styles.

Otherwise if you got NeoLemmix from https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=neolemmix or another source you need to download the "NeoLemmix Styles" as well and extract them inside your NeoLemmix folder. Then you can actually see all the different styles inside your "styles" folder.

These styles represent all the different landscapes you can encounter in levels and their objects and terrain pieces are stored in pngs.

After you got these styles the player will actually find all landsacpes and you won't encounter any more missing objects in this pack. ;)

Offline kokopelli

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2018, 04:18:50 PM »
Hello
I've just downloaded the level pack and extracted the files into the levels folder.
I get the attached error message when i try to run a level. What am I missing?

Did you get the styles set that comes with NeoLemmix?

The installer from the mainpage https://www.neolemmix.com/ should get both: player + styles.

Otherwise if you got NeoLemmix from https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=neolemmix or another source you need to download the "NeoLemmix Styles" as well and extract them inside your NeoLemmix folder. Then you can actually see all the different styles inside your "styles" folder.

These styles represent all the different landscapes you can encounter in levels and their objects and terrain pieces are stored in pngs.

After you got these styles the player will actually find all landsacpes and you won't encounter any more missing objects in this pack. ;)

Thank you very much! This helped me a lot :thumbsup:

Offline Akseli

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2019, 09:54:24 PM »
Heya, I played 11 levels from v2 last autumn, and now updated my solutions for 18 levels for Integral Lemmings v3, my solutions are attached. I didn't yet solve the demanding feeling levels Epsilon 3: "A different kind of problem" and Delta 10: "Curse of the Lemmings!".

Yes, this is a remarkable little level pack release with rather ingenious solution elements. Especially with the new NeoLemmix skills there were impressively original ideas, and I have to agree with Icho that my favourite is Delta 5: "12 Steps to Success". I'm not sure if all of my solutions are acceptable or backroutes.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2021, 10:40:24 PM »
Hi tan x,

I have solved all the levels, so here are my replays and feedback, as well as the link to the LP: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJumrLs0c9wtHb1Yey95r8Rs. Enjoy, and I'm happy to hear that you're enjoying it so much :)

General Feedback

Wow, this is a really well-done first pack! I was very impressed. Even though it's only 20 levels, it's still a hard pack! Immediately from the get-go, the pack doesn't pull any punches whatsoever. The entire pack is puzzly, and I think there's only 1 or 2 breathers in the entire pack. The levels are generally small, but most of them are deceivingly difficult. This pack requires some very neat tricks that will be needed in some other level packs, so I absolutely recommend giving this one a go! In particular, I saw all of these in some form in Icho's United pack, so it's clear that he got a lot of inspiration for his levels from your pack. Quite honestly, I don't know if I would had been able to figure out some of these tricks if this happened to be one of the very first level packs I've ever played. Because I started playing this pack long after I have solved so many other level packs, this explains why I'm already very familiar with the tricks and therefore I had an easier time on those levels that require them, in contrast to those who might not be as familiar with them or haven't seen them before.

Epsilon Rank Feedback

Quite a nice rank here, although not an easy one despite being the first one of the pack In particular, the pack immediately starts off very puzzly. Also, I unfortunately found out after the first 5 levels that some of the levels have ONML tracks preassigned, so I fixed that by adding in the Dos ONML tracks in after a few LP videos. I even had to check to see if there was anything wrong with the music, as I expected the Can-Can to play on Epsilon 1. However, when I opened it in the editor, that track that plays on it is indeed intended, so good to know there wasn't anything wrong with the music :laugh: Other than ONML, the tracks are from the Genesis port.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Delta Rank Feedback

I will have to agree with Icho here as well, this was a really difficult rank.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Once again, a job well-done on this pack, and I look forward to playing your second pack, All Hallow's Eve, in about a month or two, after I get some of my other planned LPs of level packs done. I especially love the level pack name, as it's kind of a reference to your user name, with the integral symbol, as well as calculus, one of my huge math area favorites, along with algebra! :) Looking forward to your remarks on my solutions, although as Icho said, no hurries at all. I myself will likely be very busy in the coming weeks once I start work and therefore I won't have as much time to play Lemmings. Still, I'm going to do the best I can with the huge amount of content I still need to play through.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2021, 09:18:18 PM »
Hi Kaywhyn,

I'm so very glad you enjoyed playing though my level pack! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
It's been a pleasure to watch you play through each level and share your thoughts.

Epsilon Rank Responses:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Delta Rank Responses:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2021, 11:05:14 PM »
Hi all! I'm pleased to announce an update to Integral Lemmings!

Recently, there has been some interesting discussions about the design philosophies of lemmings levels. Namely, many level packs are released with "specific solutions only", and an exact skillset.
While this is certainly very popular amongst designers and solvers, it does have the potential to reduce the creativity of a player. If a player discovers a solution other than what was intended, this leads to the dreaded backrouting that all designers fear.

Now, usually these alternative solutions come in the form of tricks or terrain exploits that the designer overlooked or did not consider (which happens very often in my case... :P).
But at the same time, part of the joy of solving a level comes from finding your own solution, even if it's not intended!

Thus, I've created 10 levels which seek to defy this trend. The levels in the new Alpha rank are all opened ended levels, with somewhat generous skillsets. They have no set solution, but are by no means a walk in the park! :evil:
The player is invited to find their own solutions, the more interesting the better!

Download link and changelog is available in the OP.

Enjoy! :thumbsup:

Offline Armani

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2021, 10:27:20 AM »
played newly added Alpha rank. 8-) I will hopefully play the rest of the pack next time.
Pretty much most of the levels are open-ended with more than enough skills, so for extra fun and challenges, I set some rules for myself while playing several levels. 8-)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It seems like I prefer levels with limited skillset  :P But there were still some decent levels.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 03:59:22 PM by Armani »
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2021, 09:02:52 PM »
Hi Armani! I've had a look at your replays, and I am extremely impressed by the creativity of your solutions! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

My thoughts on your replays are in the spoiler:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've really enjoyed watching your replays! Well done! :thumbsup:

Offline Swerdis

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2021, 01:43:45 PM »
Hi tan x,

having finished "Integral Lemmings" today, I want to write down some notes. First thing I want to say is, it's a magnificent pack. Almost all of the levels are of a high standard and absolutely well-thought. I didn't see many differences in terms of difficulty throughout the ranks, though. I like "Delta" and "Epsilon" a bit better than "Alpha", but that's mainly because I prefer the original eight skills over the new ones.

Some thoughts about the individual levels:

Epsilon:

Unconventional Techniques: It's always a good thing when a level pack starts with an outstanding level and this here surely is one. Maybe it's even the best level of the rank. The key trick is well-hidden and, at least in my opinion, can not be bypassed - which makes the level even better. To be honest, while doing this level, I didnt think that I could ever solve the pack.
What Lems beneath: Also a hard one. I tried to build from the bottom but it didn't come to a good end. Not sure if the bomber in the middle is needed there, but if so, it's an amazing little trick.
A different kind of problem: I agree with Icho here - this exits here are obstacles and goals in one which is a great idea. For me, this was the hardest level in the epsilon rank. For a long time, I was always one builder short.
Send only the finest Lemmings: This level reminded me a little  of "Circular Wavelength" from Lemmings Plus I. It's fun to play though not on the very hard side. Most difficult part is the beginning. Overall, one of my favourites.
Precission engineered Lemming: I knew immediately what do here, so that only the execution was the problem, especially with the hatch at the right side. Having solved the level, I looked what Icho and Kaywhyn had done here, and that's when I realised that my solution is probably a backroute.
Round the bend: A breather for many, that's why you moved it back to position 3. For me, this level was not THAT easy.
Don't forget the builders... Probably my least favourite level of the rank. Having played so many levels pack, I've seen everything here too often. Which does not mean it's a bad level. I see big problems here for novice players (but they wouldn't even reach this level)
Tarry not!: Another favourite of mine and a real time-cruncher. Took me a while to bring things in the right order here.
What have we learned so far: A fantastic closer of the first rank. Surprisingly it was a quick solve for me. Figuring out the left side was hardest for me. A very good level title, too!

Delta:

Entrapment: Entirely trick based. Stunned me at first, but when I found out what to do with the stoner, the rest was a  walk in the park.
Panic room: One of the best. Many different solution, but none of these is trivial to figure out  - although this level looks so simple. This is really great art.
Any suggestions: Icho considered this one the weakest in the pack, but I like it. I had no idea how to stop the platformer at the top, so I used a builders there and had to spare one later. So I backrouted this level.
A Humdrum Conundrum: This was a quick solve, but only since I knew this trick from a level in "Art Lems". (which wasn't required there, but I found it out by myself)
Oh, those talented Lemmings: Along with Panic room the best level in "Delta" for me. I love how everything falls into line here. and there is still variety. For example, Icho, Kaywhyn and I used the blocker at three different spots. 
12 Steps to Success: Solving this was hard work! I'm not good with stackers, so maybe that's why its not among my favourites levels here, but I can definitely see why it is for others.
The Incredible Squashing Machine: Easy one which is nice from time to time. It's also a good one and I thin I found the intended solution here.
Make the most of your Lemmings: This was the easiest levels of the entire pack for me (including Alpha). Like others, I love 1-of-everything-levels and this one is no exception.
DEAR LITTLE BEASTIES: A lot of precision is required here. I exhausted everything to the max to save this dearly needed Extra-Lemming and it finally worked.
Curse of the Lemmings: This one was easier than I thought. I found a relatively clean solution, so I could spare some skills in the end.

Alpha:

The Locked Room Mysteries: It was pretty clear what to do here. I must say I don't like this digger-trick that much, I think it's pretty repetitive. Easy level, though.
Unfriendly Neighbours: This really caused me some trouble. In lots of Zombie-based levels it's easy to find way to get rid of these beasties, but this was not the case here. So my solution is completely timing-based which makes this level - if it's intended - absolutely great!
These Lemmings and those Lemmings: I bombed through the block and used the lower part of the level in the end only. So I probably missed something - it felt like a backroute.
Crowd Control: I didnt' find this level easy at all and had a hard time to squeeze the Lemmings. Since it turned out to be impossible with the skills available, I played with the Release-rate a lot. But this was not necessary as I found out eventually.
Thick and thin: Phew, this was a mess. To be honest, I still don't know how to get all these Lemmings up to the exit. What saved me was the fact that I could lose some. The hardest level in the Alpha rank, at least for me.
A Sorting problem: My favourite level from the Alpha rank. I was clear from the beginning which exit the swimmers had to use, but I could isolate them in the beginning - everyhting else fell in line then.
The Big Dig: I feel that I backrouted this one since I just made it right on time and with a totally direct approach.
Equivalent Exchange: They first level I EVER played with laserers. I really wonder how Armani solved this with both sides not interacting with each other. It was a difficult one, especially with the "new" skill for me, but I found a quite elegant solution. I like this one!
Fun with Lasers: Compared with the level beforce, I made a big mess out of this. I don't know if my solution has something to do with what you had in your mind, but at least, it worked.
Escape from Zombie Island: A worthy conclusion of great pack. I was familiar with this basher-trick and used the digger-trick form Alpha 1 again, but at the wrong side of the level, at first.

All my solutions can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/user/Vidusaka/playlists
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 08:39:26 PM by Swerdis »

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2021, 11:08:28 PM »
Hi Swerdis! I'm glad to see your solutions for my pack! I must admit, when I saw the link to your playlist, I immediately binge watched all the solutions. :P

Here are my thoughts on your solutions:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thank you very much for all your kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed the pack. :thumbsup:

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2021, 11:11:58 PM »
Hi all!

An update to Integral Lemmings has been posted. Check the OP for a download link and changelog!

Thanks! :thumbsup:

Offline Swerdis

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2021, 08:21:54 AM »
Hi tan x,

thank you so much for your feedback. One word about laserers. I wasn't so convinced about this skill at first - but that was because I thought the Laserer would shoot upwards, vertically, just as in Lemmings 2 The Tribes. I didn't follow the entire discussion, so I was very pleasantly surprised that this is obviously not the case. The angled laser opens many more possibilities and your two levels already prove that.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2022, 09:23:28 AM »
Hi tan x,

I've finally got the chance to play through the new Alpha rank, and I solved all the levels. Here is my entire replay collection, which includes the replays to the Alpha rank, although you only need to check the Alpha rank. Also, you can view my LP through the link I previously provided when I posted my replays and feedback to the Epsilon and Delta ranks, as I simply tacked on additional videos to my playlist. At the same time, you're likely getting Youtube notifications for my videos going up, meaning at least the Youtube bell is working for you :P

Alpha Rank Feedback

This rank, as described by tan x, challenges the tendency of level designers to make levels with a specific solution by dedicated an entire rank of open-ended levels and challenging players to get creative and find any working solution to them. Even though these levels are intended to be open-ended, it doesn't mean they will be complete cakewalks compared to the Epsilon and Delta rank levels. Indeed, I found some of these levels to be challenging despite the generous skillsets. I also found a lot of these really interesting in their own right. Though I was a big dummy on some of these levels, they ultimately fell by my solving prowess :laugh:

After having played through and solved these levels, the Alpha rank is definitely worth playing through. It's not just an extra rank thrown in to serve as a bonus rank of sorts, it definitely feels as if they're part of the main pack, just with the concept of all being open-ended levels where almost any working solution should be fine and not a backroute.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thanks again for the Alpha rank, tan x! :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2022, 12:24:04 AM »
I played through the alpha rank - some really nice open ended levels here that are certainly challenging even with the generous skill assignments. Great job tan x dx :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Swerdis

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2022, 08:13:39 AM »
Quote
8 Equivalent Exchange - Tricky level, the platformers really run out quickly on this one too. Working out how to get to the bottom left exit is a challenging part given the laserer skill is all you have. I wasn't able to find a solution that preserved enough platformers that had the two sides of the map cross over, but I did find one where each side solved on their own. I'm guessing this is probably not fully intended, given the title hints at at least some interaction between the two crowds.

That's really interesting. I tried, but couldn't find a way to treat the crowds independent from each other. But I found a cross-over-solution. There is more than one, for Kaywhyn found a completely different way. He used a bottom route while I went over the top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2HXekZehlo&t=2s

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2022, 02:19:02 PM »
Hi Kaywhyn!

Once again, it's been a pleasure to watch your LPs. I always find it interesting to catch a glimpse into other peoples' thought processes.

Here's my feedback on your replays:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm really glad you enjoyed my levels, and thanks once again for the LPs :D

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2022, 02:44:41 PM »
Hi Apjjm!

I'm glad you enjoyed my levels!

Here are my thoughts on your solutions:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thank you very much for playing my levels. :)

Offline WillLem

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2022, 12:48:54 PM »
Having a look at Alpha today, these are some neat levels! Open-ended whilst still presenting an interesting challenge, and the map layouts have a simplistic and minimalist charm to them which can be difficult to manage when designing this sort of level. Great work! :thumbsup:

Saved 39 on the zombie level Unfriendly Neighbours. The simple design of this level is very deceptive, as it's actually quite difficult to work out how to get around the zombie crowd. I'll keep going for the 40, I'm sure I can do it - Method 2 is the closest I've got so far :lemcat:
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 01:25:42 PM by WillLem »

Offline WillLem

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2022, 03:47:55 AM »
Absolutely love this level :thumbsup:

Offline WillLem

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2022, 06:53:57 AM »
Aaaand that's the Alpha levels completed. Really enjoyed these, some good solid map designs in here and an appealing variety of levels. These are difficult; anyone who hasn't played L1 completely would struggle with these for sure. However, the open-endedness is inviting and helps to get the brain in gear for the later levels.

Some feedback on each level:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Enjoy the replays :lemcat:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 11:09:44 PM by WillLem »

Offline WillLem

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2022, 01:45:18 AM »
Here's a Save-36 on Epsilon 2 What Lems Beneath. This is an optimisation/slight variation of Swerdis' solution which
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Integral Lemmings
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2022, 02:08:46 PM »
Hi WillLem!

I'm very glad you enjoyed my puzzles!

Here's my thoughts on your replays:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thank you very much for your replays and feedback. Have you had a look at any of the other levels in the pack? ;)