Author Topic: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?  (Read 11076 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Monkineer

  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« on: November 27, 2021, 07:24:40 PM »
What's a level that you DESPISE? A level that took longer than you anticipated? A level you never want to play again?
This can count for any Lemming game.

I will admit mine, and I'm NOT afraid to admit it. I am embarrassed though. :crylaugh:
It would have to go to Level 13 of Lemmings 1, A.K.A "We all fall down". I've spent WAY too much time on this dumb level. It doesn't make much sense IMO. I literally had to replay this level over 5+ times. all :lemming: would go through the portal, and one would always fall to its doom. What sucks is that you have to get 100% of the lemmings through the exit. so having around 98% ain't gonna cut it. :smug:
And I'd ALWAYS forget to press "digger", so when I click on it, it wouldn't even apply the job to the :lemming::forehead:
this is my fault though..

Yeah...

What Lemming level do YOU hate the most? this can apply to any game.

Offline NieSch

  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2021, 10:15:05 AM »
I remember disliking Corkscrew Digger from 3D Lemmings. It's not that bad but it's a bit boring doing the same thing over and over again.



My NeoLemmix packs: All You Need Is Lemmings - Long Live Lemmings! - Yippee! More Lemmings
SuperLemmix: Tomb Rodents featuring Lemmina Croft

Offline Ron_Stard

  • Posts: 313
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2021, 12:46:56 PM »
"Take Up Archery", from Lemmings 2, is the hardest and most annoying level of all the saga. I'm sure most players would agree with me :evil::devil:

Offline Strato Incendus

  • The King of Shimmiers (crowned by Flopsy ;D )
  • Posts: 1767
  • #RIP Spearer/Grenader (2020 - 2021)
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2021, 02:58:55 PM »
Ah yeah, I was struggling to come up with one single level as an answer, but thanks for reminding me of "Take up archery" :devil:. In terms of the original levels from Lemmings 1 and its extra levels, I'd probably say "I am A.T.", though "Private room available" is a close second.
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline LemSteven

  • Posts: 559
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2021, 05:30:06 PM »
Interesting topic!  I can think of several different ways that a level can become annoying.  Examples include too much bomber timing ("Look Before You Leap"), tough execution ("Take up Archery" and "Save Me") and dull repetitiveness ("Hunt the Nessy" and L3D's "Snake").  It all depends on which of these annoyances you consider to be the worst.

For me, the #1 turn-off that makes me not want to play a level is the overuse of traps, especially hidden traps.  Nothing annoys me more than thinking I've got a working solution, only to have a hidden trap suddenly start squashing my Lemmings.  The worst offender I can think of is "Where Lemmings Dare", which is my most hated level from the original games.  Even though most of the traps there technically aren't hidden, several of them do blend in with the terrain, plus they're not easy to avoid.

A dishonorable mention goes to the hidden icicle trap in "Tubular Lemmings".  Fortunately, the presence of a "ceiling route" that circumvents the trap entirely brings that level down a notch in the annoyance category.

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12439
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2021, 06:07:44 PM »
Most of the levels that I'd describe this way, fall into one of two categories - bomber timing, or builderfests. (Or bomber-timing builderfests, like Mayhem 19...)
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Offline mobius

  • Posts: 2761
  • relax.
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2021, 10:26:38 PM »
I believe Simon wins title for creator of most annoying level ever: :D :D

To be fair, while I don't know the story behind this one I'm guessing this was either a joke or designed as an example of exactly how *not* to design a fun level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOH8y8xTxcw

out of curiosity; has anyone ever solved this level? :lix-unsure:
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Online Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3954
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2021, 02:35:36 AM »
Immediately Give Up, yes, it's by me, and I discorage everybody from trying.

ccexplore can fan ballooners with inhuman precision and has eternal patience. He found the min-skill solution to Lemmings 2 Space 5, The Stainless Steel Lemm, where you had to balloon and fan, rope in-between the fanning, and then immediately go back to fanning and blowing the ballooner down further.

I wanted to research the limits of ccx's godly skill, and built Immediately Give Up. IIRC, ccx solved it, and nobody else.

By now, Immediately Give Up has brought cultural damage, not merely research knowledge: Kieran found it and seriously attempted it. Others might also try. Therefore I warn:

Don't play it. The sense of this is: Don't consider yourself a bad player if you don't solve it. Hint for playing because some people heed no warnings: While fanning, pause with the P key, then you keep the option to unpause with the spacebar to have the fan immediately at max speed.

If you build similar levels for some reason, at least don't let them run wild without warnings, like you would with normal packs. These levels will propagate into normal level culture. People will find your level and seriously attempt it, but it only brings rage and sorrow. Also you won't look good as a designer. Hint: Put the obvious first skill in the first slot, so the engine selects it automatically on every of the tedious restarts.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 03:02:51 AM by Simon »

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1482
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2021, 11:01:44 PM »
ccexplore solved this level first try, even:
Quote
Ok, that was much easier than it looks.  Not only did I solve it, but I solved it on my first try without any restarts.  I might even consider re-attempting it with the climbers replaced with rock climbers and see what happens (though that might perhaps be a bit of a stretch).
Source thread: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=990.msg33523#msg33523

Then he went ahead to do it again to record his solution. I uploaded ccexplore's solution to Immediately Give Up: https://youtu.be/aWc24wjp0go

Admittedly, at least the level doesn't have narrow chutes to go down in.



To get back on topic, I hate levels that make you redo a lot of stuff over and over again if you mess something up.
Without savestates, this applies to pretty much all long builder fests, like a good portion of L1. With savestates etc, this is much more limited, but you might still have levels where you need to get an early skill placement/timing right, but you'll only know whether it's right much later after having done a bunch of other stuff. But more generally, I also find long levels with a lot of obvious skill placements boring.

Hidden traps are an obvious annoyance, but what is worse is invisible/hidden terrain that is required in a solution, because that you do not necessarily encounter sooner or later. Case in point is Lacktardo's "Derangement of Science", a level with a simple skillset that I initially was in awe of as I spend hours on it without finding the solution, even though it seemed so simple. Turns out that it had terrain hidden behind the hatch that you needed to use. So all these hours I spent I basically wasted. It'd be a decent level if it was honest, but due to that I guess this is the one level I despise. (This was before clear physics mode and the like.)

Offline Ste Woz Ere

  • Lemmings 2 fan
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2022, 01:18:05 AM »
Probably some of the bigger L3 levels, mainly because the engine itself is so annoying.  For L1 it would be something like Save Me (super tiny ledge drops) and for L2 it would be Evolution of Lemmings. (the last thing you want to do with a jetpack is get it up through a tiny hole)

"Take Up Archery", from Lemmings 2, is the hardest and most annoying level of all the saga. I'm sure most players would agree with me :evil::devil:

For me, there was actually a 7-year gap between first playing L2 and finishing L2, thanks to this level. However, I found it much easier to repeat when I played it through 20 years later (mainly because I can fire vertical arrows reliably and remembered the right spot to throw 2 spears from). Definitely a nightmare first time around, but I think the 9th Cavelem level has the hardest execution trick in the game. (see above)
Tribes of Steel - a whole new Lemmings 2 game! (120-level pack)
Currently a WIP - all tribes are complete, testing and feedback is welcome!

Offline AdrianR1983

  • Posts: 1
  • Veteran Lemmings Player
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2023, 08:03:07 PM »
I've just recently completed the Acorn Archimedes version of Lemmings on emulator - all 120 levels. The level that gave me the most problems was Triple Trouble.

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3573
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2023, 07:28:33 PM »
I've just recently completed the Acorn Archimedes version of Lemmings on emulator - all 120 levels. The level that gave me the most problems was Triple Trouble.

A notorious level on most platforms.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline mobius

  • Posts: 2761
  • relax.
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2023, 11:07:04 PM »
nobody has mentioned "How Do We Get Up There" from Lemmings Revolution:

The worst kind of annoying; the devs took a concept that seems good on paper, or at least has potential then ruined it.

Sadly the ridiculous time limit completely ruins what would otherwise be a good level. What makes this level so hard is not only the time limit but with time limit removed altogether, I argue it would still be decent challenge. It looks pretty straight forward but turns out more complex than it at first seems, getting multiple worker lemmings where you need to go, a lack of skills and saving 100% isn't trivial by any means. I remember, back in the day being stumped on this level for a while before figuring out the proper route... BEFORE even realizing the problem of the time limit.

It's different imo, when there's a level that's just trash from the start like "All or nothing" I just skip those entirely. Since I have no obsessions about completing games this doesn't bother me. But a level that could've been fun that turns out terrible gets me raging.

Colorful Arty solving said level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdAT0NJ4lE&list=PLQHiUcBinBlDbPIK2dQXxMsJzWUBzfQAM&index=6
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Adrian060756

  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2023, 02:50:08 AM »
>:(For me it has always been level 30 of Mayhem on the Mega Drive port of Lemmings. ''Lemmings' Ark'' it was one of those rusted brick and pipe tilesets with the arrows pointing left. I can get through every other level in this port without even having to work them out on account of playing the game so many times over 30 years but for some reason, this is the only level that I have to keep looking up the solution online or watch a recorded old re-run that I did of it in order to jog my memory. Definitely the hardest and most annoying level in that port of the original game.

Offline Dullstar

  • Posts: 2095
    • View Profile
    • Leafwing Studios Website (EXTREMELY OUTDATED)
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2023, 04:45:19 AM »
We All Fall Down.

The solution is of course trivial, having been designed for the original game as an extreme example of a level where doing the solution is where the difficulty comes from rather than figuring it out. But from that regard, really only the Mayhem and maybe the Taxing versions are "interesting" in the sense that they may require a slightly different solution just to be reasonably completable, although NL framestepping tools show that the level DOES actually have enough space to do the trivial solution, if you can somehow pull it off without those player assists. And ultimately the thing that you have to do to be able to pass it isn't very interesting; it's just finicky because it's easy to have to start over because of a single very slightly mistimed input.

Online kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1917
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2023, 05:39:02 AM »
"Take Up Archery", from Lemmings 2, is the hardest and most annoying level of all the saga. I'm sure most players would agree with me :evil::devil:

Yup, most definitely! Ugh, I remember the numerous restarts because I couldn't aim the arrows correctly.

Another L2 level I want to add is Highland 4 (I think it's Highland 4?), "A mere stone's throw." where you have to make a ramp with stones/rocks. It's a nice concept and all, but it's so annoying to get right without getting anyone trapped.

nobody has mentioned "How Do We Get Up There" from Lemmings Revolution:

The worst kind of annoying; the devs took a concept that seems good on paper, or at least has potential then ruined it.

Sadly the ridiculous time limit completely ruins what would otherwise be a good level. What makes this level so hard is not only the time limit but with time limit removed altogether, I argue it would still be decent challenge. It looks pretty straight forward but turns out more complex than it at first seems, getting multiple worker lemmings where you need to go, a lack of skills and saving 100% isn't trivial by any means. I remember, back in the day being stumped on this level for a while before figuring out the proper route... BEFORE even realizing the problem of the time limit.

Completely agree there mobius! It's a great level and all, but the super tight time limit makes it so annoying that I dread having to do the level again after finally getting everything right, only to have to do it again because I ran out of time.

Another Revolution level I can add: I think it's called "Don't let them out!" If you remember, it took me nearly 2 hours on camera before I finally got it solved! At least when you're trying for what I believe is the intended solution to the level. Again, while you have more time available here than the level you mentioned, we still have a super tight time limit and the execution is so nightmarish to pull off on the level. Not only that, there's also a lot of good timing needed and even the annoyance of the bug of a 50:50 chance of either surviving or splatting, and on top of all of that one of the spinning gear traps has a really huge hitbox that makes it so hard to avoid by building over it. All with a very limited skillset that nearly provides no room for error.

Video of me solving the level with what might be the intended solution:

https://youtu.be/uNevVNqwnL8

We All Fall Down.

The solution is of course trivial, having been designed for the original game as an extreme example of a level where doing the solution is where the difficulty comes from rather than figuring it out. But from that regard, really only the Mayhem and maybe the Taxing versions are "interesting" in the sense that they may require a slightly different solution just to be reasonably completable, although NL framestepping tools show that the level DOES actually have enough space to do the trivial solution, if you can somehow pull it off without those player assists. And ultimately the thing that you have to do to be able to pass it isn't very interesting; it's just finicky because it's easy to have to start over because of a single very slightly mistimed input.

The interesting thing is that these levels are completely trivialized in ports where you have the increased fall distance before splatting, as you can win by doing nothing in this case, since they'll survive the fall without needing to dig. You can also avoid the challenge altogether in ports where digger cancelling is possible. In NL, for example, it's possible to complete the level using only two diggers!

If anything, I feel like the challenge could had been increased further at least for the Taxing and Mayhem versions by providing you with way less diggers than there are lemmings for those levels. Like probably half the number of diggers or even less. Maybe considerably shorten the diggable platform even.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline GigaLem

  • The Dog That Brought Lemmings to Avalice
  • Posts: 1418
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2023, 08:08:27 AM »
Triple Trouble on PS1
and King of the Castle on any version.

While im at it, just. PS1's Taxing Rank, due to the flawed frame work and controls, I find the PS1 version to be the worst non-8 bit version of Lemmings. Why the heck does the cursor have momentum?!

Offline Adrian060756

  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2023, 04:36:31 AM »
Triple Trouble on PS1
and King of the Castle on any version.

While im at it, just. PS1's Taxing Rank, due to the flawed frame work and controls, I find the PS1 version to be the worst non-8 bit version of Lemmings. Why the heck does the cursor have momentum?!

What I find annoying about the Playstation port in general is that the music isn't assigned to a certain level at a time. It instead skips to the next song like a cycling playlist once you make a mistake and have to repeat the same level again. Plus half the tunes are missing in this port which could be because of several issues.

1. The disc was full of data and didn't have enough room to hold the entire 22 something playlist in redbook audio.

2. The growing awareness of copyright music may have become more of a deterrent at that point that it was far easier to just ignore the tracks that might offend or cause copyright? Go figure?

 At least this port had someting I liked, ''Oh No More Lemmings'' expansion pack added.

Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2023, 11:44:11 AM »
What I find annoying about the Playstation port in general is that the music isn't assigned to a certain level at a time. It instead skips to the next song like a cycling playlist once you make a mistake and have to repeat the same level again. Plus half the tunes are missing in this port which could be because of several issues.

1. The disc was full of data and didn't have enough room to hold the entire 22 something playlist in redbook audio.

2. The growing awareness of copyright music may have become more of a deterrent at that point that it was far easier to just ignore the tracks that might offend or cause copyright? Go figure?

It's the latter. Well, the special levels aren't in the game in the first place so it makes sense why those tracks aren't here, but aside from that, IIRC Tim10 caused some trouble (don't remember the details) and it turns out Doggie wasn't actually public domain either, hence why those two tracks are missing from the Windows version and all subsequent releases.

Offline chaos_defrost

  • Posts: 908
  • the artist formerly known as Insane Steve
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2023, 06:40:08 PM »
King of the Castle on any version.

I was about to link the NES version of this level but uh, yea, never enjoyed this stage at all. On any version.
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

Offline Tunik5448

  • Posts: 18
  • Gadget Garden.
    • View Profile
    • My site
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2023, 04:07:08 AM »
For Normal Lemmings, it was all versions of "We all fall down". For ONML, it was "Dolly Dimple." Dolly Dimple made me scream at my PS2 and rage quit, whereas We all fall down was simply done for me by someone else.

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3573
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2023, 08:59:47 PM »
There is just so much hate for We All Fall Down!!!

So, I need to re-address the balance. I think it's a great level, here's me playing it on the Amiga without pressing pause:

Normal solution
Cheeky 3-Digger solution

Offline Tunik5448

  • Posts: 18
  • Gadget Garden.
    • View Profile
    • My site
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2023, 09:32:33 PM »
You did We all fall down without stopping?

You are one brave man, my dude.

Offline GigaLem

  • The Dog That Brought Lemmings to Avalice
  • Posts: 1418
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2023, 08:04:06 AM »
In 2021 I did a let's play of Lemmings on Both the SNES and Genesis versions, one level I can't stand is "Lemmings Ark"

That level is a pain to get right, lining up everything correctly, the timing, selecting the right lemming, making sure you mined at the right location.

I had to speed up all of my failed takes and vent out how much of a pain it is to play that level. When I say I miss playing Neolemmix, levels like those are why.

Offline Adrian060756

  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2023, 01:04:40 AM »
Agreed. Level 30 of Mayhem on the Mega Drive should be titled ''A Bastard Of A Level.'' I've played the Mga Drive game for 30 years and can breeze through it without even having to think about the solutions except that one level. I always have to watch an old rerun I recorded of it to jog my memory in order to pass it.

Offline Mr Esc

  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2023, 09:10:58 PM »
The only version of We All Fall Down that used to annoy me was the one in Tricky. Knowing there are 28 better levels after it, getting stuck there did make me impatient when I was younger. Its not the worst level at all though really

The things that can potentially be annoying for me are trying to assign a skill in a crowded spot and naturally it going the wrong way (especially in the Mega Drive version). Tight time limits can be annoying for me too as under pressure I make silly mistkaes sometimes . Can't pick just one but levels like Heaven Can Wait, Tightrope City and The Fast Food Kitchen would be way up there.

Offline MASTER-88

  • Posts: 500
  • Professional lemmings player and videogame master
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2023, 08:30:12 PM »
I think orginal/Snes lemmings Mayhem 29 Save Me & SUNSOFT SPECIAL 2 I am AT

Oh No More Lemmings. thats definitely Havoc 20 (final level) Look Before You Leap. Those absolutely pixel perfect bombs aim are extremely hard without tools and Rock style level not really give good landmarks.

NES Lemmings contains few ones. Mayhem 19 & 20 Easily two hardest levels. Its just because this NES controll system are very crap. I think if you play those levels with GB version you have much more help with pause buttons. I already beat all NES & SNES Lemmings levels without pause button. IIRC that NES level 19 was hardest but 20 requires some good idea, its not was that hard anymore.
Video games player.
See my youtube: Several games videos includes lemmings
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88?feature=mhum

My Huge Lemmings Projects

Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
Custom +1 (120 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

Lemmings World 150 Levels
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6751.msg102567#new

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4539.0

Offline grams88

  • Posts: 563
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2024, 07:34:52 AM »
(With a twist of lemming please) was a very annoying level, I remember not making all the lemmings a parachute and then they went splatter.  I remember also near the end of the level not getting the basher bashing in the right direction as they were too many lemmings.  A hard and annoying level.