[Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (12 tribes complete, needs testing)

[Ste Woz Ere]

The summer solstice has recently passed, and the sun shines down upon you L2 fans...for I can now reveal my level pack in progress - Tribes of Steel!

Apparently someone discovered a prophecy that foretells the death of all lemkind, so the 12 tribes were all told to assemble at their base camps (prefabs erected just in case something like this would happen) with their talisman piece and embark on a journey to the centre of the island in order to escape certain doom.



Note: Current version info can be found at the bottom of this post, as that's where the download link will be.

==========
The Background
==========

A few months ago, I played Quest from Kieran 2 and was enthralled by it - so much so, that I still had thoughts about it long after I'd finished...and recently they persuaded me to have a go at L2 editing myself. One concept level and a bit of learning time on the editors later, and I think it's Thunder-Lemmings are Go!

Based on the same concept as QFK2* with some concepts of my own too, this is a full 120-level replacement. While I'm no stranger to level design (I made concept-based Doom/Heretic/Hexen level packs for 10-15 years), I doubt I'll be able to hit the puzzling heights of QFK2. I will try though, and the new level+skill combos are already bearing fruit. Besides, I've got plenty of ideas up my sleeve to ensure it looks, feels and plays differently (and it's showing already in the levels I've done so far). I'm hoping it'll end up somewhere between QFK2 and the original game on the quality scale (preferably closer to QFK2 ofc), but as long as it plays differently I don't mind.

And just in case you are worried about the execution side and the engine's quirks...there's always DOSBox with savestates. Not quite as sophisticated as NL, but it does the trick. (and given what happened when I played QFK3, there won't be any ridiculous manoeuvres requiring savestate abuse)

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, as I'm no expert. If you manage to break a level, please let me know what you did (I'm bound to miss things, esp. given that you guys have played a lot more than me). I don't really know much about glitches either, so there's bound to be a few somewhere.


=========
The Concepts
=========

Each tribe has it's own fixed set of themed skills - like QFK2*, but with many changes. (nearly all tribes have at least 2 differing skills)
The first level of each tribe is exactly the same - but with different skills each time. (some are easy, some are hard)
The last level of each tribe has 10 (!) trapdoors - ensuring an epic finale. (having groups of 6 lemmings will open up a new set of solutions and a different approach to solving)
Each tribe requires the full 60 lemmings to reach the end. Classic requires 50, and level names will end in a number to show the death count.

* it partly feels like I'm ripping off the idea, so I apologise for that. But it is how I would've made the original L2 if it was me. Together with my own concepts and challenges, I'm confident it will play differently to QFK2.

=======
The Tribes
=======

It wouldn't be complete without a sneak preview, so here it is. Click on the spoiler for details.

Highland

The ancient clans used to bombard each other until the mighty Angus McLem brokered a peace treaty, and battles became sporting contests. Now they must put aside their differences and head south, using their regimental skills with their love of outdoor pursuits and ancestral song+dance habits to traverse the foreboding mountains.

Skills: Rock Climber, Parachuter, Hopper, Attractor, Thrower, Roper, Mortar, Twister
Extras:



Level 4: Lemfidditch Distillery

Circus

Roll up, roll up, it's the Greatest Show on Earth! (well, this little patch of it) Music, bright lights and balloons, spectacular jumps and cannonballs, all topped off with the amazing Superlem! But someone should tell them to stop clowning around and start travelling again. (preferably not using a car that falls to bits)

Skills: Ballooner, Superlem, Jumper, Attractor, Platformer, Club Basher, Twister, Laser Blaster
Extras: Cannon, Trampoline



Level 7: RGB Nightclub

Classic

What is there to say about these guys? While their methods have been tried, tested and proven effective all throughout history, they still subscribe to the old beliefs that lemmings like walking off cliffs and going pop in the night. Let's hope that at least half of them manage to make it with their gold talisman piece.

Skills: Climber, Floater, Exploder, Blocker, Builder, Basher, Miner, Digger
Extras:



Level 3: A Race of Halves

Medieval

The Kingdom of Lemmand has built many fine castles all over the land, along with weapons and siege engines to cope with centuries of war...now the knights (and outlaws) must march to glory. These skills are surely going to be put to the test in their noble quest to meet the rest.

Skills: Climber, Roller, Archer, Builder, Platformer, Stacker, Fencer, Miner
Extras: Catapult



Level 5: Acrobatic Outlaw

Egyptian

Ancient Gods, and lots of them. Lots of tombs to explore, lots of pots to fill up, lots of work to do. If only their Magic Carpets could carry it all to the underworld, but they're too unstable - and in any case it's a logistical nightmare, moreso than building pyramids without modern technology.

Skills: Magic Carpet, Shimmier, Slider, Filler, Sand Pourer, Glue Pourer, Basher, Stomper
Extras:



Level 9: The Plunger's Tomb

Outdoor

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok!" But this lot aren't, as they don't cut down trees. Instead they take to the skies, the land, the water and ofc the veggie patch. Armed to the teeth with shovels and old WW2 ordnance they dug up previously, it's a long hard trek across the wilderness.

Skills: Ballooner, Parachuter, Kayaker, Planter, Platformer, Roper, Scooper, Bomber
Extras: Flicker



Level 6: Not Mushroom Out There

Beach

The sun's out and it's party time - if only we'd booked a DJ, man! Just as well really, as the tide's coming in like really fast and we need to scramble, dude! Grab what you can...I'm sure those gliders, surfboards and parasols will be useful somewhere along the way. And don't forget the bucket and spade!

Skills: Hang Glider, Floater, Diver, Surfer, Sand Pourer, Platformer, Flamethrower, Scooper
Extras:



Level 3: Fall & Rise of Reg Lemmy

Sports

The Modern Lemathlon is a regional obsession. Comprised of running, fencing, archery, pole vault and obstacle racing, it's a tough all-round challenge that demands a lot of training and dedication. Surely then, Team GL will be the most adept at dashing to the centre of the island with their piece of the World Trophy? Not if that notorious green landscape has anything to do with it...

Skills: Rock Climber, Shimmier, Runner, Pole Vaulter, Archer, Platformer, Fencer, Miner
Extras: Steam Jet, Trampoline



Level 8: Switcheroo

Shadow

Ninjas. Now you see them, now you don't. Swords and shuriken are out, as they replaced the old ways with modern methods. If they're not monkeying around the city, they're setting off explosions from up close and afar. Which does kinda defeat the point of sneaking around. Let's hope they can navigate the streets and reach the centre hideout before the time runs out and the baddie wins. (this message will now self-destruct in 5 seconds)

Skills: Rock Climber, Shimmier, Slider, Filler, Builder, Roper, Bazooka, Bomber
Extras:



Level 2: Urban Gymnastics

Cavelem

Thousands of years ago, lemmings first appeared on the island and somehow survived all the evolution since then. But after passing out of all knowledge for so long, their talisman piece has been found and they now must take it deep into the central mountain and cast it into the fire (or so they think). And to make things worse, they can't use the Icarus to fly all the way there because it would fill a plot hole or something.

Skills: Icarus Wings, Jumper, Swimmer, Spearer, Builder, Stacker, Club Basher, Stomper
Extras: Dinosaur



Level 5: Lem of the Dump

Space

These pioneers of technology have managed to establish a moon base right here on this very island. They could teleport straight to the ark, except that they lost their talisman piece during a wormhole experiment some time ago. So they must go boldly where no lemming has gone before, and retrieve it using their futuristic tools (including their new invention of space glue!) accompanied by the sound of retro synth music.

Skills: Jetpack, Magno Boots, Attractor, Builder, Glue Pourer, Bazooka, Mortar, Laser Blaster
Extras: Teleporter



Level 7: Laser Quest

Polar

Brrr, it's cold up north! But the Lem's Watch are well used to it, and have become quite adept at reaching high places. They're also good tunnellers, by virtue of having to constantly clear snow away. With all this and their traditional winter pastimes, can they cross the frozen North while avoiding zombies (they carry fire, just in case) and escape the prophecy?

Skills: Climber, Skier, Skater, Roper, Stacker, Flamethrower, Scooper, Digger
Extras:



Level 5: Eskimo Beat

=========
How to Install
=========

Back up your current /LEVELS/ folder within Lemmings 2, then extract the contents of the zip into there, overwriting the existing files.

How to run Lemmings 2 in DOSBox

If you wish to play with the Amiga music instead, grab them from this thread and play externally. (with the PC music turned off)

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1803.msg44855#msg44855

========
How to Play
========

You have to manually save the game from the main menu, in between levels.

Keyboard shortcuts:

ESC: Quick Restart
F1 - F8: Skills 1-8 (sadly not as usable as L1, particularly on levels not using all 8 skills)
SPACE: Fan (required for several skills)
P: Pause (you can also unpause by pressing Space, if you want the fan ready when you do)
ENTER: Fast Forward (you can also cancel this by pressing Space, if you want the fan ready when you do)

========
Savestates
========

These are highly recommended, as a primitive but still effective player aid. While I've tried to avoid high-precision puzzles (similar to QFK2), the levels are somewhat bigger with more skills (especially the epic finale of each tribe), therefore it will be helpful to use them. There are two options:

If using DOSBox with savestates, you have these controls:

ALT+F5: Save state
ALT+F9: Load state
ALT+F6: Previous slot
ALT+F7: Next slot

(10 save slots in total, with wraparound when selecting)

If using DOSBox-X, you have these controls:

F11+S: Save state
F11+L: Load state
F11+(comma): Previous slot
F11+(dot): Next slot

(100 save slots in total, more than enough!)

I still recommend saving your game manually too.

===============
Current Version - 13.12  (download link at the bottom of the post)
===============

All 12 tribes complete.  The final release will come after testing/tweaking, along with a video playthrough.

=====
Credits (so far)
=====

geoo - for creating both L2Suite (excellent editor/organiser) and PCL2Ed. (which is required occasionally)
GuyPerfect - for creating lgl2. (the main level editor)
kieranmillar - for creating QFK2. (the amazing level pack that inspired me to follow in it's footsteps)

Feedback credits will be added later.

======
Footnote
======

This is a new journey for me (and an unexpected one too), but the ideas are coming thick and fast. I hope to complete it by the time the winter solstice has recently passed, but will probably end up in next year. Either way, only the 3rd full Lemmings 2 game in 30 years will be something to look forward to!

[mobius]

just want to say this (basically any L2 project) is a huge undertaking so good job so far! I want to play, can't promise that I will but I will try, and I'll be sure to comment!
In any case these levels look nice and well done; I like the same concept of the same layout in all the styles.

[Ste Woz Ere]

Well, I've only gone and done it...my first ever L2 tribe. Only 1 skill change from QFK2 but it's made a hell of a difference.

I've tried to make sure they are breakproof, but I'm sure there will still be some...please have a go and let me know if you find any. (I'm aware of one backroute that's still in, but it's harder to pull off than the intended route - see if you can find it!)

See the OP for download. (attachment at the bottom)

====================
Version 2.0 has been released
====================

Highland - tribe is now complete.

Highland 1 (Base Camp) - updated the grassy bit to look better.

(note: only the Highland intro level is in this version, the others will release with their respective tribes)

[Ste Woz Ere]

Looks like I missed a couple of things after releasing it...


====================
Version 2.1 has been released
====================

Highland 4 (Lemfidditch Distillery) - reworked the level slightly, added 1 roper. (which I'd removed just before release)
Highland 9 (Sky-High Installation) - reduced mortars to 12. (I'd removed a mortar section just before release, but forgot the skills)

[Ste Woz Ere]

I'm enjoying this now. Coming up with ways to use different skills, and I also had two extra "skills" to play with in this tribe...cannons and trampolines. No gimmicks like in the original game, they actually get used in puzzles here. (I even put in extra trapdoors so there are less lemmings needing to use the cannons)

Apologies to the anti-twister folks, but I promise it won't happen again - in fact nearly all destructive skills appear in 2 tribes each, it just so happens that the twister is in the first 2.


====================
Version 3.0 has been released
====================

Circus - tribe is now complete.

Circus 1 (Base Camp) - retextured it to match the colour scheme I used throughout the tribe.

There will be changes coming to the Highland levels in the next release, but I need a short break to take care of RL stuff.

[Ste Woz Ere]

Some early private feedback has uncovered a few Highland issues, along with some file copying errors that made certain levels go missing. I'm still not entirely sure on my design philosophy, which seems very different to QFK2's...I'd be interested to hear any thoughts on that and ways to improve it.


====================
Version 3.1 has been released
====================

All Highland levels should be properly available, following various file copying errors.

Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - replaced the tricky cloud throw at the start with a bottle of whisky. (what else?)
Highland 4 (Lemfidditch Distillery) - reworked the level a bit, since it was causing trouble. Roper and rock climber removed, throwers down to 10.
Highland 5 (Lembank Docks) - slight tweak to the middle of the top section, to simplify it.
Highland 6 (The Iron-Rich Mountain) - added water across parts of the level, to stop the crawling glitch. (I'm a noob when it comes to knowing about these)
Highland 7 (Artillery Range) - fixed backroute involving a downward-mortar trick.
Highland 8 (Loch Lemond Storage Tank) - removed hanging scenery from the cavern's right-side sloping ceiling, to make the roper/twister bit a little easier to handle.
Highland 9 (Sky-High Installation) - fixed backroute involving a downward-mortar trick and a somewhat clever rescue of the middle trapdoor. Also simplified the top half of the shaft climb, made the top twister section more forgiving and reduced mortars to 10.

[kieranmillar]

Amazing to see another big Lemmings 2 pack in the works. There's still so much more potential still to explore in Lemmings 2. I'm happy to playtest this and will try to find some time this week to record my first look at every level you make, I should have some time for a quick first look now, after making this post. I feel I should help give feedback on new Lemmings 2 levels and continue to encourage people to join me in making levels for Lemmings 2. The 10-level tribe concept is really fun to develop for, despite the quirks and limitations of building Lemmings 2 levels.

[kieranmillar]

I am going to record all of my first looks, as I feel this is the best way to give feedback, you get to see my entire process of trying levels and the things I do. Today I only had time to look at the first 3 Circus levels.

Note that I may end up changing my comments as I work through the level, so don't be put off by my initial Twister moaning in Circus 2 and worries of the time limit, in the end it was a tremendously good level.

Not sure if I broke Circus 3.

Sorry for the poor framerate in places. Did not notice it until editing afterwards, not sure what's going on there. I didn't use to have this problem, I'll have to investigate to fix future videos.

https://youtu.be/bFlsC6ACw6E

[Ste Woz Ere]

Thanks for the opening feedback, very much appreciated

It's interesting (and kinda weird) to see my levels on YT and watching people try different ways to solve them, before finding a way past that I didn't think of (with some of the levels so far)

Spoiler

Circus 1 - The Base Camp is a curious concept, and there are several ways to solve it for each tribe. I've done the 45° twister up to the middle, along with platform across the bottom. (the level was much easier until I swapped builder for platformer, which is ironic as most platforming tribes have it real easy on this one)
Circus 2 - Grats on beating it with that method, but there is an easier way. (a clue is in the title)
Circus 3 - I did wonder if that opening puzzle (the hole) at the top would cause a backroute...looks like I'll have to remove it. Nice technique with the Superlem though, I wonder if other levels could break in the same way.

[kieranmillar]

Time for the next video:

https://youtu.be/AWe4e2qWvts

[Ste Woz Ere]

Again, I'm impressed with the alternative-route finding with those two...I should probably try to break my own levels before releasing
(although my Superlem skills are somewhat below yours, plus I wanted to get this tribe out before RL forced a break)

Spoiler

Circus 4 - Looks like I was right about my previous statement on level 3...Superlem did break this one, too.
Circus 5 - The intended route can be done with a 5 min timer, but your route is just as intricate - so adding time for the next release won't be an issue. (and it's not the only level so far with 2 routes that are both worthy)

[Ste Woz Ere]

The next tribe is coming along nicely, but here's some changes in the meantime:

====================
Version 3.2 has been released
====================

Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - removed a cloud and 2 ropers, moved some bits around.
Circus 3 (Jack in t'Box) - removed the hole and Superlem, doubled the laser blasters.
Circus 4 (Red vs. Blue) - added 1 min, replaced the Superlems with balloons and made the twister sections more forgiving.
Circus 5 (The Weighting Room) - added 2 mins.

[kieranmillar]

Next video, covering only one level, Circus 6:

https://youtu.be/ytFwKPvNM2c

[kieranmillar]

More playtesting:
https://youtu.be/tTE10ZRLkeM

[Ste Woz Ere]

Really liking these videos, it's interesting to see all the different ways to solve each level.

Spoiler

Circus 6 - Nice method for getting up top, different to mine but still worthy.

About the chains...that started off in Highland 2 as a joke, when I came up with the idea of using them as scenery. 3 levels later I decided to use them as platforms, just to say I've actually found a working use for the useless feature (which is 100% true for custom, as both editors only give them 2 links).  It actually looks really good in the docks level, but I guess it's causing issues so I'll revert to just using them as scenery.

Apologies for causing time loss in that one, but it's worth knowing that I'd never make such a difficult move part of the intended route (the one where you tried to twist down the far right above the exit).

Circus 7 - This is actually one of my favourite puzzles, and the best one involving a cannon. There was a couple of times in the video where you almost came across the intended solution, but I was still impressed by the one you found. (I would never ask for something as precise as that, though)

Circus 8 - You actually had the right idea from the start (about the attractor and grouping them up by the trampoline), but I do now think the final part of the puzzle is a little bit too much...so I've reworked it a bit for this next release (based on something else you said later).

At this point it's worth noting that the intended route for each level will never include incredibly precise moves (notably with twisters) that are very hard to pull off - if it seems a bit OTT it's probably the wrong method. I will ofc be impressed with successful alternative routes of this nature, but there will be an easier way.

Hopefully I'll have the next tribe ready over the weekend, but here's a new version in the meantime:

====================
Version 3.3 has been released
====================

Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - removed another cloud and 1 roper, rearranged things at the start a little.
Highland 5 (Lembank Docks) - replaced the chain swingers (masquerading as platforms) with actual platforms.
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - added some metal blocks to the shaft, preventing possible twister backroutes. (as well as helping with the puzzle)
Circus 6 (Across the Abyss) - retextured it to look nicer, removed 2 attractors (they weren't really needed), replaced the chain swingers (masquerading as platforms) with actual platforms.
Circus 7 (Breakout) - lowered the blue & yellow trapdoors (to less than ow distance), increased twisters to 10. (matching the other heavy twister levels)
Circus 8 (Roadblock) - reworked the final puzzle a bit, removed 1 platformer, added 1 club basher.
Circus 10 (Deca-Dance) - made the bottom Superlem manoeuvre more forgiving, simplified the carriage trapdoor puzzle, removed 3 platformers, added 5 jumpers.