Author Topic: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.11.2020.  (Read 23388 times)

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Offline MASTER-88

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Lemmings max points. Max-% saved with minimal skills used .European SNES Version used. I´ll updated this when i going redo. Also videos and playlist will be updates

UPDATE 25.11.2020
Mayhem 29 Save me is improvement one less skill. 22 skills is new record and that 9703 points. Its updated youtube playlist. Not in archive yet.

UPDATE 26.2.2020
Mayhem 20 & 26 improvement is update archive org and youtube playlist.

UPDATE 19.2.2020.
Sunsoft special list update. Level 4 is 2 points (2 skills) improvement over previous. Youtube & archive link is both update also skill list.

UPDATE 15.2.2020
Sunsoft special list are update. Thanks awesome Sunsoft special 3 route. I got accidentally find it right before i  was going sleep. Just pick up one "stupid" idea and its seems work.:) This game started are pretty much done rightnow. Who know? New ideas always will born.  We are make awesome progress.

UPDATE 13.2.2020
Archive link is update and sunsoft special & mayhem. Contains 100% Sunsoft special 2 solution. Some Archive links will be progress yet, but they are coming. Youtube & skill list is updated

UPDATE 12.2.2020.
Youtube playlists is updated. Contains mayhem difficulty (mayhem 19 96%/ 21 skills added) Sunsoft special 2 99% & 18 skills added.  Also skill list is update

UPDATE 7.2.2020.
New mayhem playlist is up in archive & youtube included mayhem 3 5 skills solution. Skills list also updated.

UPDATE 1.2.2020.
New Taxing difficulty playlist update. Contains level 4 2 points improvement records. Skill list and etc.. updates.



Fun
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level
Fun
1: 1
2: 10
3: 3 (94%) 47/50
4: 11
5: 3
6: 2 (96%) 48/50
7: 2
8: 3
9: 2
10: 3
11: 5
12: 5
13: 3
14: 5
15: 9
16: 9
17: 4
18: 5 (92%) 65/70
19: 6
20: 11
21: 3
22: 7
23: 5
24: 3
25: 4
26: 5
27: 6
28: 10
29: 13
30: 2

Tricky
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level
Tricky
1: 4
2: 3
3: 8
4: 9
5: 9
6: 8
7: 12
8: 15
9: 9
10: 14
11: 9
12: 9
13: 12
14: 12
15: 3 (70%) 7/10
16: 6 (92%) 46/50
17: 2 (96%) 48/50
18: 3 (90%) 9/10
19: 5
20: 7
21: 14
22: 10
23: 24 (99%) 99/100
24: 7
25: 13
26: 2
27: 10
28: 4
29: 5
30: 8

Taxing
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level
Taxing
1: 10
2: 7
3: 9
4: 14
5: 12
6: 4
7: 10 (99%) (99/100)
8: 9
9: 3
10: 8
11: 12
12: 10
13: 9
14: 20
15: 11
16: 19
17: 7
18: 12
19: 5 (92%) 65/70
20: 7
21: 7
22: 6
23: 15
24: 6
25: 8
26: 12
27: 12 (97%) (97/100
28: 16 (90%) (90/100
29: 8
30: 3

Mayhem
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level Mayhem
1: 27
2: 19
3: 5
4: 5
5: 14 (95%) (76/80
6: 10
7: 13
8: 9
9: 13
10: 30 (97%) (73/75
11: 3
12: 15
13: 6
14: 17
15: 14
16: 4
17: 11
18: 18
19: 21 (96%) (48/50
20: 6
21: 56
22: 14
23: 16
24: 3
25: 12
26: 16 (95%) (95/100
27: 4
28: 9
29: 22 (97%) (97/100
30: 24

Sunsoft
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level
Sunsoft
1: 7 (25%) (1/4
2: 29 (26 skills is confirmed possible on emulator and also it could be improvement few less skill i think.
3: 32
4: 8
5: 8


Levels is added in playlist and every levels is orders. Just max-% saved and minimal possible items used. All is recorded my real SNES system and European version
Fun 1-30 levels (3rd update)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KlDGaevc2A&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch
https://archive.org/details/fundifficultymaxpointsnewv3

Tricky 1-30 levels (8th update)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjloIWT6wd0&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj1mqlmDSnHjmjdQAdh3ed-i
https://archive.org/details/trickydifficultyhighpointsnewv8

Taxing 1-30 levels (8th update)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30VFRCX1FgI&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj136snR0XiQSGv4jxL4135B
https://archive.org/details/taxingdifficultyhighpointsnewv8

Mayhem 1-30 levels (15th update)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARmeJ5f1hy8&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj3qTY_z-MWqhoM0AryLTdd1
https://archive.org/details/mayhemdifficultyhighpointsnewv15


Sunsoft 1-5 levels (7th update) (Level is 2 no max pointed) Confirmed 26 skills solution emulator, but 29 skills on console is good enought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK1-8B5cjrc&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2vX0M2-GojXYF8k1hwWOS0
https://archive.org/details/sunsoftspecialdifficultyhighpointsnewv7

I want thanks Ichotolot his tips in mayhem 30. I already got 10059 points but when he told me new build strat i got one more point. I want thank Zimer. He max pointed levels years 2010-2017 and this keep my motivations up. I want also thanks Richard Diaz aka lemmingsmaster. He are find many most awesome strategys. He is only who are got 10001 points in Sunsoft special 2 without tool assist.

How ever. There is little chances i´ll find some better points in future if new strats can be found.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 02:09:19 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2019, 03:15:50 PM »
Comparing these results with our own results from the DOS version:

Fun 9: You used 2 skills, but this doesn't work on DOS.
Fun 11: You used 5 skills, our record is 3. This presumably relies on steel glitches. It's worth checking whether this works on SNES, because while glitches don't necessarily carry over, steel is pretty flimsy on most versions of the original game :P
Fun 13: I believe that on some versions, e.g. Genesis, this can be done with only 2 diggers. Not possible on SNES?
Fun 15: Sorry, you overlooked a better solution here. 9 skills is glitch-free and should definitely work on SNES.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fun 17: Our record is 4 skills (steel glitches again, although you also used steel glitches in your solution).
Fun 23: Our record is 5 skills. From ccexplore's post, it sounds like this is bunching up the crowd so a single lemming can build over the gap, avoiding the need for the blocker.
Fun 27: Our record is 5 skills. I don't know the details of this solution, but I'll see if I can find it and get back to you 8-)
Fun 28: Our record is 10 skills. This is glitch-free and should definitely work on SNES.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fun 29: Our record is 12 skills. I don't know the details of this solution.

Could someone move this to Challenges?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 03:35:28 PM by Proxima »

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2019, 06:13:08 PM »
Okay thats interesting.

Fun 13 Im tested this too, but no personally idea how. 3 lemmings working every we all wall down levels on SNES, but im not are make its two
Fun 15 seems very working. Have to try this.
Fun 17. Im test many things, but 4 items not seems work on SNES. I trying its many times. 5 items seems also best possible taxing 6.
Fun 23. Also tested, but can,t avoid fall lemmings.
Fun 27 I really wonder if this can work, even i can very close make it. Its look you still need this extra floater.
Fun 28 Interesting. Not 100% understand what you mean.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2019, 06:15:23 PM »
Quote
Could someone move this to Challenges?

Done.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2019, 09:09:28 PM »
Some news
Fun 15 working. I am really embarrassed when i not figured out this already. This was so easy. I seems just retared, because that was way too simple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuCQADQ-3Gw

About We all fall down levels. I did some emulator research. Yeah 2 digger working on genesis version very well, but i check out this my SNES version and i also did practice my emulator, but even step my step, its doensn´t work. You will need 3 diggers used Snes. But here is my genesis version video where i did it with two diggers. This radar is just way too different
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQHT78OJc3M

About Fun 28. I not really understand, but as far as i can tell this level doesn´t work like Proxima said on SNES.  Im not are test it genesis yet. But as far as i can tell at least snes version there is no way make that lock.
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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2019, 10:41:46 PM »
Okay, here's a full description of the Fun 28 10-skill solution:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2019, 11:37:32 PM »
Release the crowd by digging all the way down one of the poles of their enclosure

@Thats it just this trouble. You can,t dig that pole without digger got cancel or all lemmings will pass out and die. Seriously i am trying that a lot before this.

Im pretty sure its version difference. I am test out every pixels but its doesn´t work. I might try this emulator and super slowmotion, but i am 99,9% sure this doesn´t work. There is not pixels make this.

I 100% know what you mean, but its look its not work on SNES version.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2019, 01:38:08 AM »
Quote
@Thats it just this trouble. You can,t dig that pole without digger got cancel or all lemmings will pass out and die. Seriously i am trying that a lot before this.

It's pixel-precise. One pixel too early and the digger won't go the whole way; one pixel too late and the digger will let the crowd out. If you do it right, there'll be exactly 1 pixel thick of the pole remaining.
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2019, 01:57:56 AM »
I remember when you first posted about this on the forums several years ago when it was still work in progress, I looked at the results you had back then and was mostly unimpressed.  Coupled with SNES Lemmings not being played much around here, having very few unique levels (compared to Genesis Lemmings for example), and me not particularly liking to play ports of Lemmings that don't support mouse, I did not feel motivated to say much about it.  I figured given time if you are truly serious about it, you would eventually improve some of your results on your own, and if you are resourceful I would also expect you to cross-check with similar results we already reported here for DOS Lemmings.

Several years has passed.  I guess some results have improved, but it looks like you haven't really cross-check with the DOS Lemmings results yet, and at the same time you seem to think you're close to maxing all levels.  I think it's time you really compare with the DOS Lemmings results.  There are definitely some differences that would make some particular results in DOS Lemmings not achievable and vice versa, but there's bound to be at least a few levels where a better result that was reported on DOS Lemmings would carry over to SNES.  Even some of the glitches have been confirmed to work on SNES.

Regarding what Proxima mentioned about Fun, I had a chance to test some stuff out earlier today, but didn't have time to write this until now:

Fun 9: You used 2 skills, but this doesn't work on DOS.

This is expected.  Amiga/SNES Lemmings' basher extends one pixel further forward, which is just enough to allow you to get through the column with 2 bashers.

Fun 11: You used 5 skills, our record is 3. This presumably relies on steel glitches. It's worth checking whether this works on SNES, because while glitches don't necessarily carry over, steel is pretty flimsy on most versions of the original game :P

While the steel glitch itself actually works on SNES, the problem is that the DOS solution also relies on that version's bugged placement of one-way-wall trigger areas, which in DOS leads to a gap of no one-way-wall just above the steel floor (even though visually you see no gap), which is what lets you bash through the wrong way after digging 4 pixels down into the steel.  This doesn't work in SNES.

There is also a 4 skill solution that is glitch-free, but surprisingly that also doesn't work in SNES, due to miner wackiness in SNES.  (If you play the game it'd be very obvious, the floor of the mining tunnel doesn't look quite like the normal "2 pixels forward, 1 pixel down" steps you get in other ports.)  Apparently it's not easy to mine down a build bridge with SNES's miner.

So unfortunately you might really need 5 skills for this on SNES.

Fun 13: I believe that on some versions, e.g. Genesis, this can be done with only 2 diggers. Not possible on SNES?

I tested this back when we talked about the use of "digger free digger" for this level on various ports.  I'll link back to the post when I find it, but basically the problem is that it appears SNES doesn't let you increase the release rate fast enough to get the first 2 lemmings close enough together to do the trick.  So you have to start the trick with the 2nd and 3rd lemmings instead, and hence need an extra digger to deal with the 1st lemming.  On the Genesis it barely works and requires you to start increasing the release rate as soon as the game lets you (which is like during start of the fade-in before the level is even fully visible).

Fun 17: Our record is 4 skills (steel glitches again, although you also used steel glitches in your solution).

I distinctly remember having tested this on SNES and it should work.  When I have time I'll record it in Bizhawk emulator as confirmation.

Fun 23: Our record is 5 skills. From ccexplore's post, it sounds like this is bunching up the crowd so a single lemming can build over the gap, avoiding the need for the blocker.

Yes.  Whether this solution works or not might hinge on whether certain changes in release rate is achievable on SNES, because the solution does rely on manipulating the release rate a little to bunch up the crowd almost perfectly into near-single position.  That said, it could still work though even if a few lemmings are slightly off-position from the perfectly-compressed crowd, since the time window of danger (during the building over the gap) is relatively short compared to all that walking along the basher tunnel.  You'll just have to test and see.  I've included some key details in spoiler below.  When I have time I'll try to confirm this solution on Bizhawk emulator.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fun 27: Our record is 5 skills. I don't know the details of this solution, but I'll see if I can find it and get back to you 8-)

It was my solution and I had the replay.  Will make sure to restore it on the original challenge thread if it's missing there. [edit: done]  It's not a conventional solution and uses steel glitches.  The steel glitch might still work but the killer is difference in digging mechanics.  Like in Fun 28, SNES doesn't let you continue dig down with so few pixels.  From limited testing, I think you will need to shift the entire solution at least 2 pixels further left for the digger to be able to dig all the way down the right side of the steel block, but unfortunately this cause the build bridge to just miss the left edge of the exit platform.

Barring a completely different 5-skill solution to be discovered, 6 might indeed be the best you can do on SNES.

Fun 28: Our record is 10 skills. This is glitch-free and should definitely work on SNES.

Like MASTER-88 pointed out, SNES doesn't let you dig down the pole without being a bit closer to it, which ruins that solution.  However, from limited testing I think there is a totally different way to handle the start that might enable a 10-skill solution.  Will have to test more later tonight.  Details below:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fun 29: Our record is 12 skills. I don't know the details of this solution.

This is also mine and I'll fix the post to re-attach any missing replays [edit: nothing to fix].  It is a glitch-free solution but because it uses miners, I can't rule out being surprised unpleasantly by SNES, though in this case it seems very unlikely that the miner differences in SNES would actually affect the solution.  So while it needs to be tested, I think it will work out.  In the spoilers below I've listed out all the skills and roughly where they are used.

[edit: finally tested on SNES.  So of course the SNES miner ruins things again. >:( Also, the part that uses the basher staircase trick apparently also fails due to the SNES basher taking out more pixels than DOS. :(]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 09:17:44 AM by ccexplore »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2019, 01:09:05 PM »
Fun 17: Our record is 4 skills (steel glitches again, although you also used steel glitches in your solution).

I distinctly remember having tested this on SNES and it should work.  When I have time I'll record it in Bizhawk emulator as confirmation.

Done and confirmed for SNES.  See attached bk2 movie for Bizhawk emulator, plus some attached screenshots.  Note: I only found the USA version of ROM so the emulator movie is based on that, not the European nor Japanese versions for example.  I had Bizhawk uses BSNES core for emulation as it's said to be more accurate.

A good number of skill assignments likely need to be quite pixel-precise, you can refer to the screenshots to see where exactly you should do some of the skill assignments.  Plus at the beginning, you need to assign a basher to a walker lemming standing very close to a digger.  Since I don't think SNES has priority-inverted selection, you will instead have to position the cursor precisely to ensure the basher assignment goes to the walker and not the digger.

Fun 28: Our record is 10 skills. This is glitch-free and should definitely work on SNES.

Like MASTER-88 pointed out, SNES doesn't let you dig down the pole without being a bit closer to it, which ruins that solution.  However, from limited testing I think there is a totally different way to handle the start that might enable a 10-skill solution.

I've confirmed what I proposed above as possible on SNES, see attached bk2 movie for Bizhawk emulator and USA ROM, plus some attached screenshots.  In the movie I started increasing the release rate after 4th lemming has come out, letting it go to 99.  That is sufficient to get one lemming successfully out to start building to the exit.  It's quite possible there are other release rate adjustments that will also work and are easier to execute.  You may also want to consider dropping release rate back down to 80 soon afterwards, as 80 works very well to keep the lemmings bunched up together on the starting area.

Note that the attached only deal with up to the part where you successfully isolate out a lemming.  The rest of the solution you've already seen and executed.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 01:14:37 PM by ccexplore »

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2019, 06:49:17 PM »
Thanks CCexplore your awesome planning and strategys

Fun 23 10155 points working very well. I did use CCexplore strategy here. I really see this perfect releaserate manipulation was only key make this level with 5 items. I personally probably never figured out this myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOM0p-qqz3A

Next i will moving fun 28 and fun 17. I think then fun mode is perfected.

EDIT:
Can,t open those screenshots file fun 17 and 28.

Okay screenshot problem fixed. My fault.:)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 06:59:38 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2019, 07:17:46 PM »
For Fun 28, I've simplify the starting setup to below, to make things easier to execute.  Also attached Bizhawk movie.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2019, 08:08:42 PM »
Okay that fun 28 was pretty easy when i releaserate just after 4 lemmings.
Here is new records video
Fun 17 10156 & also Taxing 6 10008 working similar way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRRtt_W847Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMHf4iFqso

Fun 28 is managed here. You can alternate use 7 builders and avoid turning, but then you have bash right when you release all others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNd670w1-dM

Really much thanks ccexplore your tips. I really wonder i was miss that much things in fun. I think my all fun difficulty levels is max pointed now. Or is anyone got 5 skills strategy working fun 27. Its come close, but not enought. Im hearing on DOS version could be just use 5.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2019, 09:08:09 PM »
I don't know the 5 skill 100% solution (the best I can manage with 5 skills is lose-1, and it wouldn't work on SNES), so I don't know if it'd work on SNES or not. Here's a 6 skill solution, I'm not sure whether this would work in SNES either but you could give it a try.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 09:23:44 PM by namida »
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2019, 09:18:22 PM »
I don't know the 5 skill 100% solution, so I don't know if it'd work on SNES or not. Here's a 6 skill solution, I'm not sure whether this would work in SNES either but you could give it a try.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I am make 6 skills work bit different way my SNES. Also used taxing 22.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy4CHE2PXlk&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch&index=27
Video games player.
See my youtube: Several games videos includes lemmix custom levels
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88?feature=mhum