Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without  (Read 8538 times)

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Online namida

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[NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« on: January 23, 2020, 01:26:57 am »
Most of us know how this challenge works, but for those who don't - the goal is essentially to find the minimum quantity of each skill that the level can be solved with. The key thing here that differentiates this from "minimum skills" is that each skill is considered separately - for example, if a level can be solved with 1 builder + 99 bashers, or alternatively with 99 builders + 1 basher, the ultimate result is "1 builder + 1 basher", because those are the separate minimums for each individual skill.

Only skills assigned count towards the total: lemmings with pre-assigned skills do not, and obtaining a pickup skill does not subtract from the total.

Similar to Proxima's max-saved topic, we'll start with Lemmings Redux.



Lemmings Redux

Lemmings Redux - Gentle (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Redux - Quirky (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Redux - Zany (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Redux - Manic (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Redux - Lunatic (click to show/hide)



Dodochacalo's packs

DoveLems - Plain (click to show/hide)

DoveLems - Coward (click to show/hide)



Geoffster's packs

GeoffLems - Fun (click to show/hide)

GeoffLems - Tricky (click to show/hide)



Namida's packs

Doomsday Lemmings - Outbreak (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus I - Mild (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus I - Wimpy (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus I - Medi (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus I - Danger (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus Omega - Breezy (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus Omega - Puzzling (click to show/hide)



Pieuw's packs

PimoLems - Calm (click to show/hide)

PimoLems - Windy (click to show/hide)



WillLem's packs

Lemminas - Magical (click to show/hide)

Lemminas - Sensational (click to show/hide)

Lemminas - Tricksy (click to show/hide)

Lemminas - Pandemonium (click to show/hide)

MiniLems - Fun (click to show/hide)

MiniLems - Tricky (click to show/hide)

MiniLems - Taxing (click to show/hide)

MiniLems - Mayhem (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 06:00:13 am by Proxima »

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2020, 01:29:22 am »
Some of the replays for my Gentle results (I've only included ones that are fairly interesting):

Gentle 9 "Get A Little Extra Help", no builders
Gentle 15 "Darkness Of The Royal Family", 3 builders
Gentle 16 "A Beast Of A Level", no builders
Gentle 19 "Where Do You See Lemmings?", no builders
Gentle 23 "Pillar Talking", 5 builders
Gentle 25 "The Crankshaft", no miners
Gentle 31 "Doomsday", 2 builders
Gentle 32 "Going Their Seperate Ways", no climbers + 2 floaters

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 01:36:55 am »
An improvement already - found a 1-floater solution to "Going Their Seperate Ways". (The previous replay is still useful, as this replay does use climbers; the 2-floater replay doesn't.)

EDIT: And now, found a no-floater solution.

I'm not 100% confident in my result for "Darkness of the Royal Family" yet either. I don't think it can be improved, but I could see myself being wrong here - there might be a 2- or even 1-builder solution out there (I'm 100% sure there's no zero-builder solution).
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 01:48:59 am by namida »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2020, 02:08:48 am »
And here it is: Darkness of the royal family, 1 builder 8-)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2020, 04:20:48 am »
EDIT: And now, found a no-floater solution.

Please can you explain this challenge further. What is the significance of mentioning a skill if none are required? For instance, I can solve Just dig! with no gliders whatsoever!

if a level can be solved with 1 builder + 99 bashers, or alternatively with 99 builders + 1 basher, the ultimate result is "1 builder + 1 basher", because those are the seperate minimums for each individual skill.

So... if a level requires 99 builders, the goal is to reduce this to as close to 1 builder as possible...? ???

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 04:55:19 am »
Quote
Please can you explain this challenge further. What is the significance of mentioning a skill if none are required? For instance, I can solve Just dig! with no gliders whatsoever!

Just Dig doesn't give gliders, so that's a bit silly to mention.

Essentially, think of it as doing a seperate minimum-skills run for each skill (within the limits of the level's actual skillset - eg: you can't say "I can solve Just Dig without diggers, by using a basher instead", because Just Dig doesn't give you any bashers). This is something you should keep in mind in general - unless the challenge rules specifically say otherwise, it's assumed that the level's normal skillset, save requirement and time limit still apply. (An example where they didn't would be the "what levels could be solved with 1 of each skill" challenge - that challenge specifically stated that the normal skillset is ignored, and instead is replaced with exactly 1 of each skill.)

Using "Going Their Seperate Ways" as an example:

1. The "normal" solution uses 10 climbers, 10 floaters and 4 builders. So, we can use these as a starting point.

2. I then found a solution which solved the level with no climbers, 2 floaters, and 10 builders. We look at each skill individually:
2a) "No climbers" is an improvement over "10 climbers". Our record for climbers is now 0. (It doesn't matter that we used some floaters and builders here; because we consider each skill seperately.)
2b) "2 floaters" is an improvement over "10 floaters". Our record for floaters is now 2.
2c) "10 builders" is not an improvement over "4 builders", so our record for builders is still 4.

Now our "skills we can't live without" is 2 floaters + 4 builders. (No climbers - this is implied by them not being mentioned at all.)

3. I then found another solution, this one solving the level with 10 climbers + 10 builders, no floaters used.
3a) Climbers is already at zero, we can't improve this any further.
3b) "No floaters" is better than "2 floaters", so our record for floaters is now 0.
3c) We still haven't improved on 4 builders.

Thus, ultimately, our result: just 4 builders. We could solve the level in several different ways, but every possible solution uses (at least) 4 builders - there's no known solution with 3 or fewer builders.

Specifically mentioning that I found a no-floater solution was significant, because this no-floater solution was an improvement over the existing record for floaters (which was 2 floaters).


Often, a level - especially an X-of-everything level - can be approached much more simply than this. Take for example "Turn Around Young Lemmings". I found a solution that only used bombers, and then I found a solution that only used builders. The bomber-only solution uses 0 builders, the builder-only solution uses 0 bombers, and both solutions use 0 of everything else - just like that, the result is found: "None". You of course can't solve the level without using any skills at all, but there is no specific skill you're required to use.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 05:00:20 am by namida »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 05:57:44 am »
1. The "normal" solution uses 10 climbers, 10 floaters and 4 builders. So, we can use these as a starting point.

Actually, the normal solution needs 5 builders, because even if the first lemming is a floater and the next ten are all climbers, the floater doesn't have time to bridge all the gaps before the next floater arrives. Do you have a 4-builder solution?

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 06:50:38 am »
1. The "normal" solution uses 10 climbers, 10 floaters and 4 builders. So, we can use these as a starting point.

Actually, the normal solution needs 5 builders, because even if the first lemming is a floater and the next ten are all climbers, the floater doesn't have time to bridge all the gaps before the next floater arrives. Do you have a 4-builder solution?

Oops, I wasn't aware of this. Then the requirement is 5 builders. I did try a few things but no, it indeed doesn't seem that 4 builders is doable.

I tried a couple of things towards it:
- Having two lemmings work on the path. RR 66 for one lemming (either the first or the second) then RR 50 again, make the 2nd climb, and 3rd becomes the second worker; he'll make it across the bridge, but then the first worker will fall into the gap. (All gaps are equal length, I checked.)
- Assigning a floater to the 12th lemming immediately when he comes out of the entrance. This does add a slight bit of extra delay, but it isn't even nearly enough.
- Doing the first builder from near the entrance, instead of after falling. It falls 2 pixels too short.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2020, 07:33:08 pm »
Confirmed that my Lemmix no-bomber solution to It's Lemmingentry Watson also works (with some minor tweaks) on NeoLemmix. Like on Lemmix, it still doesn't allow saving 100%, because you lose the digger despite not bombing him.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2020, 12:48:21 am »
namida and I had a lot of fun today racing each other to set records for this challenge 8-) We made it up to Quirky 19 before namida got called away, and I did the next three levels on my own. I've attached a few replays for some of the more interesting challenges:

Quirky 4 (Go for it!) no basher
Quirky 11 (DON'T PANIC) no basher
Quirky 16 (MENACING !!) 3 builders -- the main "skills you can't live without" topic has 4 builders, but that's based on the DOS version. Redux uses the Genesis version of this level, with a smaller gap in the middle.
Quirky 18 (One way or another) 6 builders

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2020, 01:21:49 am »
Here's my interesting replays from today's session.

02 "It's Lemmingentry Watson", no bomber (also posted above)
03 "Vacation In Gemland", 1 basher
03 "Vacation In Gemland", no diggers
04 "Go For It!", 2 builders
04 "Go For It!", no miner
06 "Just A Quicky", 1 builder
12 "Over The Wall", 2 bashers
15 "Plethora of Presents", 2 bashers
18 "One Way Or Another", builders-only

Online WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2020, 02:18:37 am »
Quote
Please can you explain this challenge further. What is the significance of mentioning a skill if none are required? For instance, I can solve Just dig! with no gliders whatsoever!
Just Dig doesn't give gliders, so that's a bit silly to mention.

It is silly, but I enjoy silliness; It helps me to make sense of things! :lemcat:

Thanks for the detailed explanation Namida, I fully understand this challenge now; essentially finding the minimum skill(s) and their relevant quantities that are required for every known solution. :thumbsup:

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2020, 04:38:21 am »
I may not have been able to get results quicker than you, but I can at least improve one of your results. :P

Quirky 22 "The Far Side", no basher. :)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2020, 10:18:18 pm »
I started on LPI for this as well, since Proxima wasn't up to doing more Redux the other day. Finished Mild off today, here's the results:

Mild 10 "Take Your Time" - 10 climbers
Mild 12 "On The Pier" - 1 builder
Mild 19 "Up To Where They Go" - 1 builder
Mild 22 "Blow Down" - 6 bombers
Mild 27 "The Quarantine" - 2 builders
Mild 28 "The Descending Pillar Scenario" - 1 builder
Mild 30 "You Just Lost The Game!" - 1 builder

All others - None

Replays attached for no builders on Mild 21, no builders on Mild 29, and one builder on Mild 30. No builders on Mild 26 was Proxima's achievement. The rest are relatively simple and shouldn't need replays, but ask if you want any.

EDIT: And Proxima found no builders on Mild 30 - a huge oversight on my part.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2020, 10:23:59 pm »
Replay for Mild 26 (No Salvation) no builders.

This won't work on later No Salvations as it uses 9 bashers, but with some modifications, the route could work with fewer -- not sure exactly at what point it will stop working. Separately, I have a 1-builder solution that will work on all five levels, but I didn't save a replay of it.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2020, 11:26:44 pm »
Wimpy so far:

01 "Lemming Net" - None
02 "Lucky Charm" - 1 builder
03 "Just For Fun" - 1 builder
04 "Savior" - 1 builder
05 "Get Together" - None
06 "Two Pathways" - None
07 "No Salvation II" - None (thanks to Proxima)
08 "(Also they are ninjas.)" - None
09 "It's A Thin Line!" - 5 builders
10 "Labyrinth Of Despair" - (No result yet)
11 "The Flagpole" - None
12 "Only One Place To Go" - 1 basher, 1 digger
13 "A Magician Would Be Handy" - None
14 "Go East Or West?" - None
15 "Just When You Think You Know!" - 1 builder

I don't think a replay's necessary for no-builders on Mild 13, but if you are stuck on it, the key is...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2020, 04:31:14 am »
Replays attached for:

* Wimpy 7 "No Salvation II" no builders (minor modification of my Mild 26 replay)
* Psycho 29 "No Salvation V" 1 builder
* Wimpy 10 "Labyrinth of Despair" 1 builder. All other skills should be easy enough to do without.

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2020, 05:49:59 pm »
Dumping our results from Discord yesterday, continuing with Wimpy:

16 "Lemmings on Stilts" - 9 builders
17 "No Need To Worry!" - 1 builder
23 "It's a strange land!" - 1 builder
24 "Up, Down, Round & Round" - 6 builders
25 "Down With The Lemmings" - 1 builder
26 "Overheat" - (No result yet)
27 "Ready, Aim, Fire!" - 3 diggers
28 "Get up, up, up!" - (1 builder suspected, no confirmed result yet)
29 "Russian Rescue" - 1 climber, 1 blocker, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner
30 "Counterlogical" - ??? builders (at least 4)

EDIT: And right after posting this, found a climber-free solution to Russian Rescue.

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2020, 07:00:41 pm »
Wimpy 28 is easily solved builders+bashers only or builders+miners only, so everything except builders is eliminated. 1 builder is fairly easy. I don't think no builders is possible, because I can't see a way to get up from the level you start at.

Wimpy 30 can certainly be solved with 5 builders, but I don't see a way to get it in only 4. You would have to go the top route with climbers, but since you have 20 climbers and need to save 20, you can't use a climb-bomber anywhere. That leaves going up the far left pillar with interrupted bashers/miners as the only possibility, but I think it's just too narrow for the amount of height you have to gain.

Haven't looked at 26 yet, other than glancing at it and deciding "this looks horrible" :P

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2020, 07:06:34 pm »
Wimpy 28 no builders confirmed. I'm inclined to agree with you about Wimpy 30 (though might give it a go just in case at some point).

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2020, 08:47:10 pm »
Popping back over to Redux, we made some progress here. Proxima's updated the first post with the rest of Quirky.

Quirky 30 may be improvable to 3 builders, but I can't be bothered trying it at the moment. I suspect the 2-basher result from DOS can't be replicated here due to the more sensitive NL basher.

Here's my interesting replays. Note that the first one, the climber can be easily swapped for an extra builder (or even just for some release rate manipulation).

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2020, 08:48:09 pm »
namida and I finished off Redux/Quirky on Discord just now. We're pretty confident these are final results, except maybe 30 (Izzie Wizzie).

Replays attached for Quirky 31 (Cascade) no floaters, and Quirky 32 (And then there were four) builders-only.

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2020, 06:57:47 pm »
Back to Wimpy 30 in Lemmings Plus I, 4 builders is now confirmed possible. That was a messy one!

It's trivial to see that 3 is impossible, unless there's some steel glitch we're not aware of (and if there is, it would then get patched out in a future version of NL anyway).

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2020, 07:34:52 pm »
Wimpy 26, 2 builders confirmed. Less than this isn't conclusively ruled out, but I would be extremely surprised if it can be done (though this level is very generous in terms of skillset, so maybe...).

Eliminating everything other than builders is trivial.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2020, 08:26:27 pm »
The start of Medi:

Medi 1 "Secret to Success" - None
Medi 2 "The T Level" - 1 builder
Medi 3 "The Box" - None
Medi 4 "Getting There..." - 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 1 builder (1-bomber replay attached)
Medi 5 "Safety Blast" - 3 bombers
Medi 6 "This Is..." - 1 builder (1-builder replay and no-basher replay attached)
Medi 7 "Chain Reaction" - 3 builders (3-builder replay attached)
Medi 8 "Take Us All Home" - 6 builders
Medi 9 "The Dukes Of Lemmingsville" - None
Medi 10 "Bob's Mistake" - 3 floaters, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 09:01:41 pm by namida »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2020, 10:51:22 pm »
Medi 11 "The Long Road To Lemming High" - 2 builders (replay attached)
Medi 12 "Step Up!" - 2 bashers (no builders, 2 bashers, no diggers attached as 3 seperate replays)
Medi 13 "No Salvation III" - None (Proxima's result)
Medi 14 "All Roads Lead To Home" - None
Medi 15 "Shooting Star" - 2 bombers, 1 builder (no floaters attached; no climbers is Proxima's result)
Medi 16 "Grounded!" - 2 bombers, 1 builder (no climbers and no floaters attached; both of these also are no blockers; 2-bombers is Proxima's result)
Medi 17 "Six Feet Under" - 4 bombers
Medi 18 "Going Under" - 1 blocker, 1 builder, 1 basher (1-builder replay attached)
Medi 19 "Force Field" - 1 builder
Medi 20 "The Diving Board" - 2 floaters, 2 blockers, 2 builders, 1 digger (Proxima's result)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2020, 11:08:56 pm »
namida did most of the heavy lifting in this session, but I have a few interesting replays to show:

* Medi 1 "Secret to Success" no builders
* Medi 3 "The Box" no builders
* Medi 13 "No Salvation III" no builders
* Medi 16 "Grounded!" 2 bombers, no blockers

My Medi 20 result is just my earlier max saved result, minus the extra floater as I can afford to lose one more.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2020, 03:29:32 am »
namida will have more results to post soon, but first, here's Medi 30 "Consider Everything..." with 3 builders.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2020, 03:30:29 am »
Medi 21 "As It Burns Away..." - 3 climbers, 3 bombers, 1 blocker, 2 builders, 2 miners
Medi 22 "Lemming Entertainment Center" - 1 builder (replay attached for no-blocker)
Medi 23 "Fallen" - 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 2 bashers, 2 miners (replay attached for 1 blocker)
Medi 24 "Eye of the Lemming" - 2 builders, 1 basher, 2 miners
Medi 25 "Wall of Wisdom" - (no result yet)
Medi 26 "So That's The Plan" - 6 builders (seperate replays attached for 6 builders; no bashers)
Medi 27 "Take A Dive" - 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 2 blockers, 2 builders, 1 basher
Medi 28 "Way Up High" - 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 1 builder (replay attached for 2 climbers)
Medi 29 "Lemmingsense" - 1 climber, 4 builders, 2 bashers (replay attached for no bombers + 4 builders; this one's a single replay that achieves both)
Medi 30 "Consider Everything..." - 3 builders (replay attached for no blockers or bashers; max-saved replay achieves no bombers; 3 builders is Proxima's result, see above post)

Medi 21 hasn't had much attention yet, and Medi 25 has no result yet because it's annoying.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2020, 04:11:27 am »
Medi 25: My current result is 11 climbers, 17 diggers. Replays attached for 11 climbers and no builders.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2020, 04:18:04 am »
My best so far on Medi 25 is 14 climbers + 14 diggers, which does improve diggers at least.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2020, 10:24:19 pm »
Danger 1, I've got 10 climbers, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 3 builders.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2020, 01:24:49 am »
Back over to Redux, here's me and Proxima's results up to Zany 16:

Zany 1 "The Bridge Is Breaking Down" - 1 climber, 1 builder, 2 bashers, 1 miner
Zany 2 "Temporary Peace" - 8 builders, 1 basher (no-miner replay attached)
Zany 3 "Last One Out Is A Rotten Egg" - 3 builders (Proxima's result re: diggers / miners)
Zany 4 "Lemmtris" - None (Proxima has a replay for no climbers + no miners; talisman solution achieves no bashers; the rest is easy)
Zany 5 "Watch Out, There's Traps About" - 1 builder
Zany 6 "Compression Method 1" - 1 basher (no-blocker replay attached)
Zany 7 "No time for a detour" - None (Proxima's result)
Zany 8 "Lemmy in the cold, cold ground" - 2 builders (no-basher and no-miner replays attached; 2 builders is fairly easy)
Zany 9 "No Justice For The Hero" - 1 builder, 1 miner, 1 digger
Zany 10 "Flow Control" - 1 builder
Zany 11 "Lemming Tomato Ketchup Facility" - 1 climber, 2 bombers (2-bomber replay attached)
Zany 12 "Twins" - 4 builders (Proxima's result)
Zany 13 "Don't leave any Lemmings" - 3 builders, 1 bomber (max-saved uses 1 bomber, no-blockers is trivial, 3-builder replay attached)
Zany 14 "Pitfall" - 4 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger (4-builder replay attached)
Zany 15 "With a little help from my Lem" - 2 climbers, 3 bashers, 2 diggers
Zany 16 "What An AWESOME Level" - None (no-builder replay attached)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2020, 01:35:28 am »
My interesting replays from tonight's session:

* Zany 3 no diggers
* Zany 4 no climbers or miners
* Zany 7 no digger (no miner is easy, and the level can be solved with these two skills alone)
* Zany 8 no basher (namida and I solved this simultaneously, so we both have a replay)
* Zany 12, 4 builders
* Zany 17, no miner

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2020, 03:38:16 am »
More replays! This batch includes Zany 25 (Have a nice day), which is a talisman, but namida mentioned he was struggling on this one so I thought I should include it.

* Zany 18 (KEEP ON TRUCKING) 2 builders, and no blockers
* Zany 21 (Mutiny on the Bounty) no climber
* Zany 22 (SNOW JOKE) 3 builders (neither namida nor I managed to match Clam's 2-builder result from DOS ONML)
* Zany 25 (Have a nice day) 5 builders
* Zany 26 (Across the Gap) no digger

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2020, 04:52:53 am »
Here's my interesting replays.

- Zany 18 "Keep On Trucking", 1 Basher
- Zany 21 "Mutiny on the Bounty", 6 Builders
- Zany 22 "Snow Joke", No Blockers
- Zany 22 "Snow Joke", No Climbers + 1 Basher
- Zany 25 "Have a nice day!", Builders Only
- Zany 26 "Across the Gap", 1 Basher
- Zany 28 "Worra load of old blocks!", No Digger
- Zany 30 "Got Anything Lemmingy?", 2 Builders
- Zany 30 "Got Anything Lemmingy?", No Digger
- Zany 31 "Rocky Road", 2 Builders
- Zany 31 "Rocky Road", No Bashers
- Zany 31 "Rocky Road", No Miners
- Zany 31 "Rocky Road", No Diggers

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2020, 05:02:04 am »
We went through the rest of Zany to set preliminary results, but there were several levels for which we couldn't match the DOS result, yet couldn't find a conclusive reason why it couldn't be matched. Definitely worth having another look at these at some point.

17 "Lemming Lament" - 1 climber, 3 bombers, 4 builders
18 "KEEP ON TRUCKING" - 2 builders, 1 basher (possible with no basher in DOS; we haven't looked at the replay yet)
19 "Postcard from Lemmingland" - 1 climber, 1 builder
20 "Dolly Dimple" - 3 builders, 1 digger
21 " Mutiny on the Bounty" - 6 builders
22 "SNOW JOKE" - 3 builders, 1 basher (possible with 2 builders in DOS; Clam claimed this but never posted a replay)
23 "ONWARD AND UPWARD" - 2 climbers, 2 bombers, 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner
24 "I have a cunning plan" - None
25 "Have a nice day!" - 5 builders
26 "Across the Gap" - 1 builder, 1 basher (possible with no basher in DOS; Clam claimed this but never posted a replay)
27 "Jump down!" - 5 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner
28 "Worra load of old blocks!" - 3 builders (possible with 2 in DOS; we haven't looked at the replay yet)
29 "Four Play" - 1 builder, 1 basher, 3 miners, 3 diggers
30 "Got anything... Lemmingy???" - 2 builders
31 "ROCKY ROAD" - 2 builders
32 "The North Poles" - 2 climbers, 9 builders, 3 diggers. Minim claimed that 1 climber is possible in DOS, but with no replay; Clam disputed this and it was never resolved. I have edited the DOS topic to say 2 climbers, unless proof is provided.

Replays attached for 28 no climber and 30 no digger (quite different from namida's solution).
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 05:46:28 am by Proxima »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2020, 09:02:21 am »
Separately, I have a 1-builder solution that will work on all five levels, but I didn't save a replay of it.

Doesn't NeoLemmix now automatically saves any solving replays under an "Auto" subfolder or similar?  At least some of the more recent versions do.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2020, 03:19:12 pm »
It does, but on that occasion I didn't actually exit play after solving, which would have saved a replay. I later went back to create a No Salvation V 1-builder replay, and it's attached here.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2020, 07:19:53 pm »
Ah I see.  Would it have helped if NeoLemmix had autosaved the replay without requiring exit play (ie. saving at the moment the save requirement has been satisfied)?  Or did you rewind/restart the replay before that point anyway, so that there was never an opportunity for NeoLemmix to possibly know there's something worth autosaving?

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2020, 08:08:54 pm »
It was deliberate. No Salvation I has 50 lemmings and each successive iteration has 10 fewer, so I wanted to save a solving replay on No Salvation V so as to ensure it would work on all five levels. A replay saved on No Salvation I would have broken on the later levels if any of the lemmings I'd assigned skills to happened to be the 11th lemming or later.

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2020, 01:48:02 am »
Medi 20 "The Diving Board" improved from 2 floaters to 1 floater. Replay attached.
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2020, 05:04:01 am »
Results from the latest session:

Danger 2 - 1 floater, 14 builders (replay for 14-builders attached)
Danger 3 - 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 1 basher (replay for 2-climbers attached)
Danger 4 - 6 builders, 1 basher (separate replays for both of these attached)
Danger 5 - 1 builder, 1 miner (replays attached for no-blocker and 1-builder)
Danger 6 - 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 builder
Danger 7 - 1 miner (replay attached for 1-miner)
Danger 8 - 1 climber, 4 builders, 1 basher (replay attached for no-digger)
Danger 9 - 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 1 miner, 1 digger (replay attached for 2-climbers)
Danger 10 - 11 builders (replay attached)
Danger 11 - 1 climber, 3 builders, 2 miners (replays attached for: 1-climber; 3-builders; no-basher; 2-miners. The no-basher solution, you can replace the digger with the basher for a no-digger)
Danger 12 - 10 climbers, 1 basher, 1 digger (replays attached for no-builders and 1-digger)

Some of the results that replays aren't provided for (by me) are Proxima's, see the next post.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 05:12:16 am by namida »

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2020, 05:11:24 am »
My interesting replays from this session:

* Danger 5, 1 miner, and no basher
* Danger 7, miners only
* Danger 12, 10 climbers

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2020, 06:34:05 pm »
I ended up doing one more - was going to keep going but ran into Danger 14, which I didn't feel like taking on at the time.

For Danger 13 "Breakthrough" - 3 climbers, 4 bombers, 1 blocker, 5 builders

Replay attached that achieves 3 climbers, 4 bombers and 1 blocker all in the same replay (and saves 56, currently believed to be the maximum possible, too). You can remove the miner by swapping it out for an extra climb-bomber in said replay.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2020, 04:47:15 am »
Danger 14 "Death In All Directions" - 6 builders, 1 basher, 2 miners (100% solution eliminates blocker + bomber; replays attached for no climber, 6 builders, no digger; you can swap out the 2nd miner for a digger in the no-digger solution to get 2 miners)

Danger 15 "Circular Wavelength" - 3 climbers, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 1 miner (replay attached for 1 blocker, the rest of the results are Proxima's)

Danger 16 "The Oddstack" - 2 climbers, 2 bombers, 4 builders, 2 miners (replays attached for everything)

Danger 17 "Perfectionism" - 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger (Proxima's results)

Danger 18 "The Buildo Station" - 24 builders (replay attached)

Danger 19 "Antigravity" - 2 diggers (replays attached for no bashers, no miners, 2 diggers)

Danger 20 "No Salvation IV" - None (replay attached for no builders; the rest is Proxima's results)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2020, 04:56:22 am »
Here are my interesting replays from tonight's session:

* Danger 15, 1 builder, and (3 climbers, no basher)
* Danger 17, 1 basher and 1 digger (both replays are no-floater)
* Danger 20, one replay for (no climbers, floaters, bombers, blockers), one for (no bashers, 1 miner, no diggers). The miner can easily be switched for a basher to achieve no miners.

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2020, 05:09:35 am »
namida prompted me to take another look at Danger 14, so here's a no-miner solution. The basher can then be replaced with a miner for a no-basher solution.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2020, 07:26:52 am »
Just managed to squeeze out a win on Medi 25 (Wall of Wisdom) with 10 climbers. I can't prove this is minimal, but considering how tight it was with 10, I would be surprised if it could get any lower.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2020, 09:49:06 pm »
Danger 21 - 4 builders, 2 bashers (replays attached for no climber + no floater, no miner)
Danger 22 - 6 builders, 1 basher
Danger 23 - 5 builders, 1 basher (replays attached for no floater, no blockers, 5 builders, no miner)
Danger 24 - 1 climber, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner (replays attached for each of these 1's; eliminating the rest is WillLem's result)
Danger 25 - 1 climber, 1 builder, 3 bashers
Danger 26 - No result yet
Danger 27 - 5 climbers, 5 floaters
Danger 28 - No result yet
Danger 29 - 4 builders (replays attached for 4 builders, builders+miners only, no miners)
Danger 30 - 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 digger (Proxima's results)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2020, 09:59:54 pm »
Replay for Danger 30, 1 basher. Everything else is easy to reduce to the minimum.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2020, 12:35:32 am »
Seems the best we can find for the last two Danger levels are:

Danger 26 "With Love, From Trogdor" - 59 climbers, 3 bombers, 2 blockers, 5 builders, 3 bashers (replay attached for 3 bashers; the rest are either Proxima's results or trivial)
Danger 28 "Coalburner" - 2 climbers, 4 floaters, 2 bombers, 3 blockers, 6 builders, 2 bashers (replay attached uses 2 climbers + 4 floaters + 2 bombers + 4 blockers + 3 bashers; you can trivially swap the spare bomber for either one of the blockers or one of the bashers)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2020, 02:18:09 am »
Over to Redux again, for Manic 1 to 10:

Manic 1 - 2 builders, 2 bashers, 1 digger
Manic 2 - 3 builders (replay attached for 3 builders)
Manic 3 - 6 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner (replays attached for no climber, no blocker, no bomber; the no-climber is trivial to make into a 1-miner; 1-basher is Proxima's result)
Manic 4 - 1 climber, 2 builders, 4 bashers, 1 digger (replay attached for 2 builders)
Manic 5 - 1 climber, 4 builders, 4 bashers, 2 diggers (1 climber is Proxima's result)
Manic 6 - 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 digger (1 basher attached; 1 digger is Proxima's result)
Manic 7 - 4 builders (replay attached for this; eliminating everything else is fairly easy)
Manic 8 - 7 builders, 2 bashers (replay attached for 7 builders)
Manic 9 - 11 climbers, 5 builders, 3 miners (replay attached for 11 climbers)
Manic 10 - 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 8 builders, 1 basher

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2020, 02:27:52 am »
And my replays. (No replay for Danger 26, which is just my max saved result minus assigning one climber since you can afford to lose one.)

* Manic 2, no blockers
* Manic 5, 1 climber
* Manic 6, 1 basher, 1 digger
* Manic 7, builders only

I didn't save a replay for Manic 3, 1 basher since this is just the talisman solution. Manic 6 no climbers was discussed in the main Redux topic.

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2020, 11:49:30 pm »
Latest Redux session, and my replays:

Manic 11 "Where Lemmings Dare" - 4 builders (replays attached for no blocker, no basher, no miner, no digger)
Manic 12 "Steel Block Party" - 1 basher, 1 digger (no-builder is Proxima's result)
Manic 13 "Upside-Down World" - 1 basher, 1 miner (replays attached for no climber, no builders, 1 basher)
Manic 14 "Come On Over To My Place" - 1 builder
Manic 15 "The Silence Of The Lemmings" - 2 bombers, 1 builder, 1 basher (replays attached for 2 bombers, no blocker, 1 basher)
Manic 16 "A BeastII Of A Level" - 6 builders (replay attached, though it's not very hard)
Manic 17 "Just a Minute" - 2 bashers, 1 digger (replay attached; we suspect this is improvable to 1 basher but can't be bothered confirming it as it's really fiddly)
Manic 18 "The Gate Trap Lemmings" - 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger (I did get a 1-basher replay, but Proxima produced a much tidier one)
Manic 19 "Poles Apart" - 4 builders, 2 bashers (replays attached for no climbers, 4 builders, 2 bashers, no diggers)
Manic 20 "Fall and No Life" - 1 floater, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner
Manic 21 "Electric Circuit" - 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 digger (replay attached for 1 builder; 1 digger is Proxima's result)
Manic 22 "It's Not Over 'Til It's Over" - 2 builders, 1 miner, 1 digger (replay attached for 2 builders; 1 digger is Proxima's result)
Manic 23 "Old MacDonald Had A Farm" - 2 blockers, 3 builders (replays attached for no floaters, 2 blockers, 3 builders)
Manic 24 "The Race Against Cliches" - 1 builder, 1 basher (replay attached for no diggers; the rest is Proxima's results)

The results for Manic 19, 23 and 24 here also ended up improving the DOS results too. :D

EDIT: Proxima's 1 digger on Manic 22 was a miscommunication. However - after realising this, I managed to do 1 digger myself. Replay attached.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 12:07:30 am by namida »

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2020, 11:57:05 pm »
This was a great session :thumbsup: Unlike namida, I didn't manage to improve any DOS results, but I did make a lot of contributions, so for once I've zipped my replays rather than posting them individually. The zip contains:

* Manic 11, 4 builders
* Manic 12, no builder
* Manic 13, 8 skills, 1 miner, no blocker. (We were not minimising total skills, but I made the 8-skills replay as a starting point. It also happens to be a no-digger solution.)
* Manic 14, 1 builder, no floater, no miner, no digger
* Manic 15, 1 builder and no digger (same replay)
* Manic 18, 1 basher
* Manic 21, 2 builders and 1 digger
* Manic 24, 1 builder 1 basher, and 5 skills (the latter is a no-climber no-floater solution)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2020, 01:20:12 am »
Manic 25 "Acrophobia": 4 builders. Attached are replays for 4 builders and removal of all other skills, except for the bomber, which is an easy modification of the no-miner solution. (This is also how to save 100% on this level.)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2020, 03:15:20 am »
Thanks to WillLem joining us, we were inspired to finish off the Manic rating. Here are my contributions for the rest (namida also has some):

Manic 26 "Triple Trouble" builders/miners/diggers only, no miners, and no diggers
Manic 30 "POOR WEE CREATURES!" no climber/miner, 3 builders/no bomber, and no bashers
Manic 31 "With a twist of lemming, please" 3 builders
Manic 32 "Temple of Love" no climber, 9 builders

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2020, 03:23:00 am »
Overall results are:

Manic 25 "Acrophobia" - 2 builders (replay attached - this is one of those "must see" ones!)
Manic 26 "Triple Trouble" - 7 builders (replay attached)
Manic 27 "Watch Your Fingertip" - 2 builders, 3 bashers, 1 miner (replay attached for 2 builders and 3 bashers; for no-blocker see my 100% solution in the max-saved topic)
Manic 28 "Out, Away From The Tune!" - 1 bomber, 5 builders, 6 bashers
Manic 29 "Just A Minute (Part 2)" - 2 bashers, 1 digger (replay attached; exactly the same as this result on Manic 17, but probably not improvable this time)
Manic 30 "Poor Wee Creatures" - 1 floater, 3 builders (Proxima's / WillLem's results)
Manic 31 "With A Twist Of Lemming Please" - 10 floaters, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger (replay attached for no-climber)
Manic 32 "Temple of Love" - 1 blocker, 9 builders (replay attached for no climber / floater, 9 builders is Proxima's result, see my max-saved solution for 1-blocker)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 04:20:07 am by namida »

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2020, 11:25:14 am »
Medi 10 "Bob's Mistake" - 3 Floaters --> 2 Floaters
Medi 21 "As It Burns Away..." - 1 Blocker & 3 Climbers --> 0 Blockers & 2 Climbers (same replay)
Medi 23 "Fallen" - 2 Bashers --> 1 Basher
Medi 28 "Way Up High" - 1 Builder --> 0 Builders (replay is super messy, but it worked - feel free to reproduce it in a cleaner fashion!)
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2020, 12:17:41 am »
Some more results.

Lunatic 1 "It's Hero Time!" - 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger (replay attached that eliminates all the rest)
Lunatic 2 "It's All A Matter Of Timing" - 10 builders (replay attached)
Lunatic 3 "Anxiety" - 4 builders, 3 miners (replays attached for each)
Lunatic 4 "No Added Colors Or Lemmings" - 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 1 basher, 2 miners
Lunatic 5 "There's Madness In The Method" - 2 climbers, 2 bashers, 2 miners (replay attached for no-builder)
Lunatic 6 "Which One Are You Trying To Get?" - 2 builders (replays attached to eliminate all other skills + for 2 builders)
Lunatic 7 "Down, Along, Up, In That Order" - 4 blockers, 5 builders
Lunatic 8 "Lemming About Town" - 1 climber, 4 builders, 3 miners (replay attached for 4 builders)
Lunatic 9 "Evacuating A Coal Mine" - 1 climber, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner (replay attached for this but 3 builders; trivial to swap the 3rd builder for extra bashers + miners)
Lunatic 10 "Be More Than Just A Number" - 9 builders, 1 digger (replays attached for no climbers, no floater, 1 digger)
Lunatic 11 "Fix The Road, Quick!" - 8 builders (replay attached)
Lunatic 12 "Water Processing Plant" - 7 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner (replay attached for no-floater; you can trivially use the floater to save a miner)
Lunatic 13 "This Corrosion" - 1 climber, 8 builders, 1 basher (replays attached for 1 basher, no diggers)
Lunatic 14 "Move On In Two Seperate Groups" - 5 builders, 3 bashers (replays attached for all of this, including no-blocker)
Lunatic 15 "Evil Whisper" - 1 basher, 1 miner (replays attached for no-builder, 1 miner, no-diggers)
Lunatic 16 "Sega Four" - 3 builders (replays attached for no climbers, no blockers, 3 builders, no diggers)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2020, 12:21:50 am »
I didn't contribute majorly today, as namida and DireKrow started while I was having dinner :P but here are replays for SEGA Four no-bashers and no-miners.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2020, 01:03:18 am »
I'll post the overall results later (if no one else does first), but here's my replays from today's session.

This is a list of my replays, not a list of results.

Lunatic 17 "Creature Discomforts" - 5 builders; No bashers
Lunatic 18 "Scaling the Heights" - No climbers
Lunatic 20 "No Hurry, Relax" - 3 builders
Lunatic 21 "The Steel Mines Of Kessel" - 2 builders
Lunatic 22 "Hello John! Got A New Lemming?" - 6 floaters
Lunatic 24 "Everyone's A Hard Nut" - 1 basher
Lunatic 28 "Lemmings In A Situation" - No Climber; No Blocker; No Floater + 7 Builders (this 7 builders cannot be reproduced on DOS - I tried)
Lunatic 29 "Save Me" - 4 blockers; 11 builders; no bashers
Lunatic 30 "Lemmings' Ark" - 1 Climber; 1 Miner
Lunatic 31 "I Am A.T." - 8 diggers
Lunatic 32 "Fall and No Life (Part 2)" - 4 bashers

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2020, 01:42:25 am »
Great to have a full set of results for the pack :thumbsup: There are still a couple of levels that should be given another look, because we felt the results were probably improvable but would require a lot of fiddling about -- "Just a Minute" and "It's all a matter of timing" in particular. Anyhow, these are our results for the last 16 levels:

17 "Creature Discomforts" - 5 builders
18 "Scaling the Heights" - 2 builders (DireKrow's result; improves on the DOS result but we haven't tested this on DOS yet)
19 "Private room available" - 1 builder, 2 bashers, 19 diggers
20 "No hurry, relax" - 1 climber, 1 floater, 3 builders, 7 bashers
21 "The Steel Mines of Kessel" - 5 bombers, 2 builders
22 "Hello John! Got a New Lemming?" - 1 climber, 6 floaters, 2 builders, 4 bashers
23 "The Great Lemming Caper" - 2 builders
24 "Everyone's a hard nut" - 2 builders, 1 basher
25 "Watch right or left (Part Two)" - 1 bomber, 1 builder, 1 basher
26 "Final impediment" - 9 builders
27 "Let's go camping." - 1 floater, 1 blocker, 7 builders, 3 bashers
28 "Lemmings in a situation" - 7 builders, 1 digger
29 "Save Me" - 4 blockers, 11 builders, 1 digger
30 "Lemmings' Ark" - 1 climber, 4 builders, 1 miner, 1 digger
31 "I am A.T." - 8 diggers
32 "Fall and no life (Part Two)" - 1 floater, 5 builders, 4 bashers, 1 miner

Replays will be posted soon.

Offline DireKrow

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2020, 03:06:41 am »
The Scaling the Heights 2 builder replay for reference:
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2020, 11:22:19 am »
Here are my interesting replays from the session. The set contains:

* Creature Discomforts, no climbers
* Scaling the Heights, no blocker and no miner
* Private room available, 19 diggers (for those wondering, the level has 10 lemmings, not 20 as on Genesis!)
* The Steel Mines of Kessel, 5 bombers
* Hello John! Got a New Lemming?, 4 bashers and no digger
* The Great Lemming Caper, no basher and no climber
* Everyone's a hard nut, 2 builders
* Final impediment, 9 builders, no floater, no blocker (the latter two in one replay)
* Lemmings in a situation, 1 digger and no basher

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2020, 06:56:58 pm »
Lunatic 28 "Lemmings in a situation", LemSteven's no-digger result for DOS also works here.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2020, 03:31:08 am »
And another cross-referenced result: MASTER-88's 29 diggers on SNES Sunsoft 3 (the same level as "Private room available") has enabled me to reduce the NL result to 11 diggers. (Again, the drastic difference is because the NL level has 10 fewer lemmings than the SNES and Genesis versions.)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 05:08:44 am by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2020, 11:45:25 pm »
DireKrow, namida and I started to look at MazuLems today. Here's what we have so far:

1 "A Giant Leap for Lemmingkind" - 2 climbers, 3 blockers, 4 builders, 1 basher
2 "Stairway to Heaven" - 4 bashers, 2 diggers
3 "The Pool" - 1 climber, 5 builders, 3 bashers, 1 digger
4 "Can You Dig It?" - 1 builder, 2 bashers
5 "Two Minute Warning" - 1 climber, 6 builders
6
7
8 "Achtung Lemming" - 4 builders, 1 basher
9
10 "Episode X - The Phantom Exit" - none
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 01:41:38 am by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2020, 01:14:37 am »
Here's my replays for MazuLems 1 & 2. The 2 diggers for MazuLems 2 is also 4-bashers.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2020, 11:17:30 pm »
Redux/Lunatic 15 "Evil whisper": Previous results are invalidated by the new backroute fix. My current result is 1 builder, 1 basher, 2 miners, 1 digger.

Since DireKrow and roundthewheel are both going through the pack at the moment, I want to wait a little longer before I say for absolute certain that the pack is finalised and there will be no more fixes, but I'd say I'm about 99% sure there won't be. Of course there are still lots of alternative and unintended solutions, but that's usually a good thing and what makes challenges like "skills you can't live without" so interesting.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2020, 08:50:28 pm »
Lunatic 27 "Let's go camping": DireKrow found a solution saving one basher, and I was able to modify it to do without the floater.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2020, 05:01:10 am »
WillLem, DireKrow and I went through the Magical rank of Lemminas today. This is the first new-skills pack we've looked at for this challenge :thumbsup: Our results:

1 "Welcome The Lemminas!" - 3 builders
2 "We Like To Dig Too!" - None
3 "Mind The Gap..." - 3 builders
4 "Lemdon Bridge" - 2 fencers, 1 miner
5 "Lemmina Loop Prevention Service" - None
6 "Just Keep Swimming" - 2 swimmers, 4 fencers
7 "Lemminas Luv M.C. Escher" - 1 basher, 1 cloner
8 "Pyramids Of Lem (Under A PepsiCola Sky)" - 3 builders
9 "Send Them Soaring!" - 4 floaters, 4 gliders
10 "Just Shimmy!" - 3 shimmiers, 1 platformer
11 "I'll Go First..." - 1 shimmier, 2 climbers, 1 disarmer, 2 platformers, 2 bashers
12 "Climbing In The Moonlight" - 1 climber, 2 stackers
13 "Believe In Yourself!" - None
14 "Lemminas Go Forth" - None
15 "Wraparound" - 1 digger
16 "Revenge Of The Ice Cream Monster" - None

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2020, 05:22:36 am »
And my collection of interesting replays from the session.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2020, 03:42:15 am »
Results for the first half of Lemminas/Sensational:

1 "Worra Lorra Lemminas!" - 1 walker, 1 floater, 1 platformer, 1 basher, 1 cloner
2 "Dimples" - 2 diggers
3 "Backroute To The Future" - None
4 "Pillars Of Venus" - None
5 "See You On The Other Side" - 1 shimmier, 2 climbers, 1 disarmer, 1 platformer, 2 builders, 3 fencers, 1 miner
6 "Hurry!" - 1 floater, 2 platformers, 2 builders
7 "The Melting Block" - 1 swimmer, 1 disarmer, 2 platformers, 1 fencer, 1 digger
8 "The Continuum" - 1 fencer

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2020, 12:08:43 am »
And the second half:

9 "Delaying The Inevitable" - 1 walker, 1 floater, 5 builders, 1 miner
10 "The Strange Boutique" - 1 swimmer, 1 builder, 3 cloners
11 "The Refrigerator" - 2 fencers
12 "Falling Forever" - 3 floaters
13 "The Unnecessarily Tall Pillars" - 2 walkers, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 cloner
14 "Race To The Top!" - 1 floater
15 "Wraparound Part II" - 1 builder, 1 digger*
16 "Escape From Crystal Mountain" - None

* WillLem intends to replace Level 15 with a new level, but this result stands for now.

Of note, Sensational 5 and 13 are the first levels we've looked at in this topic that had seven and eight (respectively) different skill types required -- the most ever required in Redux was six, on "Tension Sheet, Good Idea".

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2020, 01:09:34 am »
Replays attached for:

11 - no builders, platformers, walkers (no stackers is WillLem's result)
14 - no builders, bashers, platformers, swimmer, walkers (no climbers, stackers are WillLem's results)
15 - no climber or walkers
16 - no builders, fencers, platformers (no climbers, stackers, bashers are WillLem's results)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2020, 07:15:48 pm »
Sensational 9 "Delaying The Inevitable" - 1 walker, 1 floater, 5 builders, 1 miner --> 5 builders, 1 miner

Replay attached.
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2020, 02:35:09 am »
WillLem and I did the Fun rank of GeoffLems today. Some interesting levels, some fun ones, and some annoying ones :P

Our results:

1 "How Do I Lemming?" - None
2 "Little Umbrellas" - 4 climbers, 4 floaters
3 "Drumsticks" - 1 basher
4 "The Bricklayer's Guild" - 4 builders
5 "The Crystal Ship" - 1 basher
6 "Subterraneans" - None
7 "Promenade" - 1 builder
8 "Lemming Fun Club" - None
9 "Means To An End" - 3 bombers
10 "Over Fire Island" - 1 floater
11 "Quadrophenia" - None
12 "Up the Fire Escape..." - None
13 "Mind the Gap" - None
14 "Heure de Pointe" - None
15 "The Scrap Yard" - None
16 "Roadhouse Blues" - 6 builders
17 "Post-Lemmingism" - None
18 "Lemmixology" - 2 builders
19 "Spider & I" - 2 builders
20 "Tread Carefully..." - 2 miners
21 "Mezzanine" - None
22 "Sky Archipelago" - 3 builders
23 "Who Designed This Level??" - 1 builder
24 "Little Cream Soda" - 3 builders
25 "They Can't All Be Zingers" - None
26 "Arrows Make Every Level Cooler" - 1 builder
27 "Dr. Lemmingstone, I presume?" - 3 builders
28 "Lemmings Terrain Park" - 2 builders
29 "Guided Tour" - None
30 "Meet In the Middle" - 2 climbers, 6 builders

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2020, 02:43:16 am »
And my interesting replays from the session :P

We're not sure the above results are final -- in particular, I wondered about ceiling routes on Fun 18 and 24 -- but I am far too tired now to look any more closely.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2020, 12:01:23 am »
MiniLems results for people to improve!:

Fun

1 Just Dig! - 1 Digger
2 Only Floaters Can Survive This - 1 Floater
3 Tailor Made For Blockers - None
4 You Need Bashers This Time - 3 Bashers
5 Builders Will Help You Here - 2 Builders
6 Not As Complicated As It Looks - None
7 Tribute To M.C. Escher- 1 Climber, 1 Floater, 1 Basher
8 Patience - None
9 Don't Let Your Eyes Deceive You - 2 Builders
10 We Are Now At LEMCON ONE - 2 Builders
11 Konbanwa Lemming-san - None
12 Nightmare on Lem Street - 2 Builders
13 Let's Be Careful Out There - 1 Builder
14 If Only They Could Fly - 3 Builders
15 Worra Lorra Lemmings - 4 Builders
16 We All Fall Down - 2 Diggers (thanks, Proxima!) :thumbsup:

Notable replays attached 8-)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2020, 02:19:26 am »
First half of GeoffLems/Tricky, with WillLem's help:

1 "Lemming Colony" - 1 builder
2 "Come Out To Play, Lemmings" - 4 diggers
3 "Kindercare" - None
4 "The Belltower" - 2 bombers, 2 bashers
5 "Lemming Yacht Club" - 3 builders
6 "Renovations" - 1 builder
7 "Mining Workforce in Decline..." - 1 basher, 1 miner
8 "Obstacle" - 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 1 basher, 1 miner
9 "Short Controlled Bursts" - 2 bombers, 2 bashers
10 "Break on Through?" - 1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 1 miner, 1 digger
11 "Caravan" - 1 builder
12 "House of Pancakes" - None
13 "Trick Wire" - None
14 "Summer's Waltz" - 4 builders
15 "The First Day of the Revolution" - 1 basher

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #82 on: April 29, 2020, 02:27:07 am »
And my replays from today's session. 14 with 4 builders and 15 with 1 basher are perhaps the most interesting.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #83 on: April 30, 2020, 01:01:16 am »
LPI Danger 27 "The Deadly Climb" 5 Floaters, 5 Climbers --> 4 Floaters, 4 Climbers
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #84 on: April 30, 2020, 04:15:09 am »
MiniLems/Fun: Improved Fun 15 to 3 builders.

I started Tricky today, and WillLem joined in for the second half. Our results:

1 "This should be a doddle!" - 1 builder
2 "Here's one I prepared earlier" - 1 climber, 3 builders
3 "Careless clicking costs lives" - 2 builders
4 "Lemmingology" - 2 builders
5 "They just keep on coming" - None
6 "Lemmings in the attic" - 7 builders, 1 basher
7 "Lemming Drops" - 4 builders
8 "Diet Lemmingaid" - 2 bombers
9 "One way digging to freedom" - None
10 "All the 3's ........" - 2 builders
11 "Tightrope City" - 1 builder
12 "Cascade" - 3 builders
13 "I have a cunning plan" - 5 builders, 1 basher
14 "The Island of the Wicker people" - 1 builder
15 "Lost something?" - 1 builder
16 "Rainbow Island" - None

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #85 on: May 01, 2020, 02:30:28 am »
More GeoffLems/Tricky. The replay pack includes Level 15 no builders, which I accidentally omitted from the previous replay pack.

16 "No Lemming Left Behind" - None
17 "Watch for Falling Rocks" - 2 builders
18 "Fort Lemmington" - 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 2 builders, 1 basher, 2 diggers
19 "Wire Cutters" - 1 floater, 2 builders, 1 digger
20 "MEANWHILE in Canada..." - 2 climbers, 2 floaters, 3 builders, 1 miner
21 "Everybody Builds" - 8 builders
22 "One Step Ahead" - 4 builders
23 "Enclosure" - 1 climber, 1 blocker, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger
24 "The Millau Viaduct" - 9 bashers
25 "The Yungas Road" - 1 climber, 1 blocker, 4 builders, 1 miner
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 03:10:09 am by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #86 on: May 01, 2020, 03:29:52 am »
Some improvements on GeoffLems:

Fun 10 "Over Fire Island": Improved 1 floater -> 0 floaters
Fun 18 "Lemmixology": Improved 2 builders -> 0 builders
Fun 24 "Little Cream Soda": Improved 3 builders -> 1 builder

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #87 on: May 01, 2020, 04:11:18 am »
And for GeoffLems Tricky,

Tricky 18 "Fort Lemmington": Improved 2 builders -> 1 builder
Tricky 20 "Meanwhile In Canada" - Improved 2 climbers, 2 floaters -> 1 climber, 1 floater
Tricky 25 "The Yungus Road" - Improved 1 climber -> 0 climbers; 1 miner -> 0 miners

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #88 on: May 01, 2020, 05:39:36 am »
Wrapping up Tricky:

26 "Lemmings: 1, Man: 0" - 2 builders, 3 bashers, 1 digger
27 "Hot Chip" - 2 climbers, 2 bombers, 1 blocker, 4 builders, 2 bashers, 2 diggers
28 "Proposed Keystone Pipeline" - 1 climber, 3 builders, 5 bashers
29 "The Buddy System" - 1 climber, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger
30 "Oven-Friendly Lemmings" - 9 builders

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #89 on: May 01, 2020, 07:18:30 am »
GeoffLems Tricky 26 "Lemmings: 1, Man: 0", here's a solution that eliminates the digger. That's the only improvement I could find (came very close to a no-climber on 29, but couldn't quite make it work).

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #90 on: May 03, 2020, 02:11:37 am »
Started on GeoffLems Taxing, but the 3rd level is an annoying one for this so didn't get very far yet.

01 "The Pit And The Pendulum" - 2 builders, 1 digger
02 "Planks" - 4 builders, 2 diggers

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #91 on: May 03, 2020, 02:34:26 am »
Meanwhile, WillLem and I started on MiniLems/Taxing:

1 "Watch out, there's traps about" - 1 builder
2 "Heaven can wait (we hope!!!!)" - 4 builders, 1 digger
3 "Lend a helping hand...." - 7 builders
4 "Compression Method 1" - 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 1 basher
5 "The ascending pillar scenario" - 6 builders
6 "Livin' On The Edge" - 5 builders, 1 basher

It's possible that 5 and 6 in particular may be improvable.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2020, 05:08:23 am »
WillLem, Mantha16, DireKrow and I went through DoveLems/Plain tonight, with these results:

1 "Again our Famous Lemmings!" - 2 miners
2 "Critical Temperature" - 6 bashers
3 "Crazy Marble" - 1 digger
4 "For the Honour" - 4 bombers
5 "Swallow Me!" - 1 bomber, 5 blockers
6 "The Plant Lemmings" - 4 builders
7 "Face the Wall" - 2 climbers, 1 digger
8 "The Snowy Base" - 4 builders
9 "Through the Bubbles" - 1 climber, 1 basher, 1 miner
10 "The Woodrock Temple" - 2 builders, 1 miner
11 "Concentration Camp" - 6 climbers, 6 floaters, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 2 miners
12 "Don't Let Them Leave the Way" - None
13 "The World Stem" - 1 floater, 4 builders
14 "Simple Life" - 7 builders, 4 bashers
15 "Ground Floor, Please" - 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 digger
16 "Disappearance?" - 1 climber, 13 diggers
17 "The Heat of Action" - None
18 "Lemming's Brains" - 5 builders
19 "Yours Diabolically" - None
20 "Wooden House" - 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 2 builders, 2 miners
21 "Flack and White" - 7 builders
22 "Trapped Exit" - 11 builders
23 "Can You Bomb It?" - 1 basher
24 "Sapphire Mine" - 3 builders
25 "Scrub" - 3 builders
26 "Stalactites or Shortcut" - 9 climbers, 9 floaters, 2 builders, 2 bashers
27 "Lemmings on the Spot" - 5 4 builders
28 "Here's the Final Flourish" - 1 blocker, 1 builder (no blockers is DireKrow's result)
29 "Papuan Mask" - 2 bombers, 1 digger
30 "Cisterns, Chains and Bricks" - 1 climber, 7 floaters, 2 builders, 7 bashers
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 05:24:42 am by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2020, 05:11:54 am »
Here's my most notable replays from that session:

Plain 23 Can You Bomb It? - 1 basher
Plain 27 Lemmings On The Spot - 5 builders

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #94 on: May 08, 2020, 05:44:07 am »
After we had wrapped up, I improved Plain 27 to 4 builders.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #95 on: May 08, 2020, 09:10:14 pm »
Meant to post these yesterday.
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #96 on: June 12, 2020, 04:30:54 am »
We have some results for Sublems/Newbie and Sweet, although Sweet 18 is a difficult level for this challenge and we're leaving it for another time.

Newbie:
1 "This is a walk in the park!" - None
2 "Scaling Mt. Jerry" - 1 climber
3 "The magic of umbrellas" - 1 floater
4 "This place blows" - 3 bombers
5 "Block-O-Tron" - 2 blockers
6 "Building 101" - 7 builders
7 "Break out the bashers!" - 3 bashers
8 "Lemmings are miners by trade" - 3 miners
9 "I dig this level!" - 2 diggers
10 "Firework Finale!" - None

Sweet:
1 "Piece of cake!" - None
2 "Lemburger Cheese" - 2 miners
3 "Last train to Lemmingland" - None
4 "Ain't no party like a lem party!" - 5 bombers
5 "Lemmings of the Caribbean" - None
6 "Rock and roll" - 1 basher, 1 miner
7 "Cloud Tops" - 6 builders
8 "Lemming romance" - 7 builders
9 "Leapfrog" - 5 builders
10 "Lemmings vs arrows" - 2 bombers
11 "Much Ado about Lemming" - 1 builder
12 "Of mice and lems" - 6 builders
13 "Lemmings playroom" - 3 builders
14 "Lemming deathmatch" - 1 bomber, 10 builders
15 "Sandopolis Act 1" - None
16 "The pit of pain" - 50 climbers
17 "The Metropolis Lemopolis" - None
18 "Tri-color masterpiece" - To be determined
19 "Bubblewonder Abyss" - 12 builders
20 "Boss Battle 1: Crystal Creep" - 2 builders

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #97 on: June 14, 2020, 01:22:43 am »
First half of Scary:

1 "Torture chamber" - None
2 "Not as simple as it seems" - None
3 "The Tale of Sir Lemalot" - 8 builders, 1 basher
4 "The Parthenon" - 1 floater, 3 builders
5 "What's the password?" - 2 bashers, 2 diggers
6 "Know your bashers" - 5 bashers
7 "Lemmings and oranges" - 1 climber, 1 basher, 1 miner, 3 diggers
8 "This level stinks" - 8 bombers
9 "Return of Mr. Lemming" - 1 climber
10 "Keyblade masters" - None

WillLem and I also managed to 100% all levels in this group except Level 8. A good set of results :thumbsup:

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #98 on: June 20, 2020, 01:59:41 am »
Lemminas, Magical 4 "Lemdon Bridge" - improved to 1 fencer and 0 miners (seperately; replays attached).

1 fencer is very tricky; on the other hand, I'm surprised no-miners was overlooked!

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #99 on: June 20, 2020, 02:36:28 am »
And a couple in Sensational:

Quote
7 "The Melting Block" - 1 swimmer, 1 disarmer, 2 platformers, 1 fencer, 1 digger
8 "The Continuum" - 1 fencer

Improved to "1 platformer, 1 fencer, 1 digger" and "none" respectively.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #100 on: June 21, 2020, 09:35:21 am »
Lemminas, Magical 4 "Lemdon Bridge" - improved to 1 fencer and 0 miners (seperately; replays attached).

And a couple in Sensational: ...7 "The Melting Block" ...8 "The Continuum"
Improved to "1 platformer, 1 fencer, 1 digger" and "none" respectively.

Nice work! :thumbsup: I've updated the records accordingly.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #101 on: June 24, 2020, 02:40:52 am »
WillLem and I did the first half of Lemminas/Tricksy. Results:

1 "Who's Doing What?" - 2 walkers, 3 floaters, 1 disarmer, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 cloner
2 "Lemmina PepsiCola Research Event" - 1 walker, 1 swimmer, 1 floater, 1 disarmer, 2 platformers, 2 builders
3 "The Milkshake Machine" - 1 shimmier, 1 climber, 1 swimmer, 1 basher, 1 digger
4 "Konbanwa Lemmina-san" - 3 shimmiers, 2 climbers, 1 floater, 3 miners
5 "Lemmina Drops" - 2 miners
6 "Day Of The Daredevils! Part III" - 1 climber, 1 swimmer, 1 glider, 1 disarmer, 1 builder, 1 cloner
7 "Easy Peasy Lemmina Squeezy" - 1 shimmier, 1 climber, 1 platformer, 1 basher, 1 fencer, 2 cloners
8 "Stainless Steel Lemminas" - 1 platformer
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 02:54:48 am by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #102 on: June 24, 2020, 10:55:30 am »
Tricksy 3 "The Milkshake Machine" - Eliminated the shimmier, climber and swimmer. This is absolutely a blatant backroute, though.
Tricksy 4 "Konbanwa Lemmina-san" - Improved to 2 miners.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #103 on: June 25, 2020, 03:54:15 am »
We looked at the second half of Tricksy, but I haven't solved 13 yet or got the talisman on 14, so these results are a work in progress:

9 "POOR WEE CREATURETTES!" - 1 climber, 2 swimmers, 1 floater, 1 glider, 1 disarmer, 2 platformers, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 3 fencers, 3 cloners
10 "Down The Rabbit Hole" - 1 glider
11 "Lemminas Recurring" - 2 walkers, 3 platformers
12 "Soda Streams" - 1 shimmier, 3 climbers, 3 swimmers, 1 floater, 1 builder, 1 fencer, 3 diggers
13 "Nessy II" - 4 walkers, 2 shimmiers, 2 swimmers, 10 platformers, 8 builders, 3 bashers, 4 fencers*
14 "No I in Team" - 1 walker, 7 swimmers, 2 gliders, 1 disarmer, 1 builder, 1 stacker, 1 basher, 1 fencer, 1 cloner
15 "Just a Second..." - 2 walkers, 1 shimmier, 1 stacker, 1 basher, 1 cloner
16 "The Crystal Cobwebs of Mt. Katie" - 1 floater

* WillLem's results for bashers and fencers. Most other skills haven't been looked at yet at all.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #104 on: June 25, 2020, 05:00:38 am »
Tricksy 12, eliminated the builder and the floater (seperately).

Tricksy 13, eliminated the walkers and the shimmiers, as well as cut platformers down to 8, all at the same time. I haven't yet looked at the remaining skills, nor looked at whether further improvements to platformers is possible.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #105 on: June 27, 2020, 02:45:26 am »
I solved 13 and eliminated swimmers, and WillLem has gotten the remaining skills down to 3 of each. I am far from confident this is the final result, but don't feel like looking at it any more tonight, after spending a long time getting most of the talismans in this rank.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2020, 02:50:42 am »
Here's seperate eliminations for Bashers and Fencers on Tricksy 13. I still haven't had much of a look at Platformers and Builders yet.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2020, 02:52:12 am »
Some activity on the Pandemonium rank in discord tonight:

1 "Lemmina City Steel Facility" - No result
2 "Milkshake Party" - 5 walkers, 1 shimmier, 1 climber, 1 glider, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 1 digger, 1 cloner
3 "Nightmare on Lem Street III" - No result
4 "Lemgate" - No result
5 "The Cherry Cola Conundrum" - 1 basher, 1 digger
6 "L-Pop" - None
7 "Falling Forever Part II" - 2 climbers, 1 floater, 1 glider, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 stacker, 1 cloner
8 "Staircase To Nowhere III" - 11 walkers, 3 builders, 5 stackers
9 "With a Twist of Lemmina Please" - 3 walkers, 1 climber, 1 glider, 2 blockers, 3 platformers, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 2 cloners
10 "I'll Just Wait Here, Shall I?" - 1 walker, 3 platformers, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 1 cloner
11 "Mary Poppins' Land II" - 7 platformers, 1 builder
12 "Erm..." - No result
13 "Constellations II" - No result
14 "Save Us!" - 14 stackers
15 "Nothing is Impossible" - 7 builders, 1 basher, 8 diggers
16 "Rendezvous at the Mountain Part II" - None
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 03:54:12 pm by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #108 on: June 28, 2020, 07:44:03 pm »
Here's seperate eliminations for Bashers and Fencers on Tricksy 13. I still haven't had much of a look at Platformers and Builders yet.

Genuinely love these solutions - excellent work! :lemcat: :thumbsup:

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #109 on: June 28, 2020, 11:04:06 pm »
I can solve Milkshake Party with 5 walkers of the 8 given, plus everything else, so:
5 walkers, 1 each of shimmier, climber, glider, platformer, builder, stacker, fencer, digger, cloner.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #110 on: June 29, 2020, 01:35:56 am »
* Milkshake Party, no platformer (essentially the same solution works for no builder; the platformer will stop just before the screen edge)
* Staircase to Nowhere, 11 walkers
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 01:51:37 am by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #111 on: June 29, 2020, 03:51:23 am »
And, I took a look at Builders and Platformers on Tricksy 13 now. I'm pretty sure this is optimal for both - 1 of each.

My reasoning (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 07:01:13 pm by namida »

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #112 on: June 29, 2020, 09:47:33 am »
I thought I might download Lemminas again and have a go at these too.

I'm pleased to announce that Lemminas' largest level, Pandemonium 16 (Rendezvous at the Mountain Part II) can be confirmed as None. The quantity of Cloner Pickups and the save requirement are a big giveaway here. Another big giveaway can be seen in my no disarmers replay to save the cloners. I did forget to attach the replay for no stacker/no basher, but hey, this is so easy to work round right?

This just leaves 1, 3, 4, 12, and 13. I've looked at WillLem's solutions from the download and have recorded his results. Here they are for reference.

1: 1 glider, 5 platformers, 3 bashers, 1 climber, 4 builders, 1 cloner, 1 digger
3: 2 diggers, 2 climbers, 2 floaters, 4 builders, 2 miners, 4 bashers, 4 platformers, 4 walkers, 4 fencers.
4: 2 basher, 2 fencer, 1 stacker, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 3 walkers, 1 miner, 1 digger.
12: 1 miner, 1 basher, 2 fencers, 1 builder, 2 walkers, 1 stacker
13: 19 builders, 2 climbers, 2 gliders, 10 platformers, 4 stackers, 4 bashers, 5 walkers.
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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #113 on: June 30, 2020, 05:28:39 am »
I had a look at Nightmare On Lem Street III this evening. I've eliminated everything except 1 Floater and 1 Builder (see attached replays). This level hasn't been very popular so far, but it was great to SYCLW, and it's still one of my pack favourites!

Anyways, it seems that the results for Pandemonium so far are these:

1 "Lemmina City Steel Facility" - 1 glider, 5 platformers, 3 bashers, 1 climber, 4 builders, 1 cloner, 1 digger
2 "Milkshake Party" - 5 walkers, 1 shimmier, 1 climber, 1 glider, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 1 digger, 1 cloner
3 "Nightmare on Lem Street III" - 1 floater, 1 builder
4 "Lemgate" - 2 basher, 2 fencer, 1 stacker, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 3 walkers, 1 miner, 1 digger
5 "The Cherry Cola Conundrum" - 1 basher, 1 digger
6 "L-Pop" - None
7 "Falling Forever Part II" - 2 climbers, 1 floater, 1 glider, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 stacker, 1 cloner
8 "Staircase To Nowhere III" - 11 walkers, 3 builders, 5 stackers
9 "With a Twist of Lemmina Please" - 3 walkers, 1 climber, 1 glider, 2 blockers, 3 platformers, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 2 cloners
10 "I'll Just Wait Here, Shall I?" - 1 walker, 3 platformers, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 1 cloner
11 "Mary Poppins' Land II" - 7 platformers, 1 builder
12 "Erm..." - 1 miner, 1 basher, 2 fencers, 1 builder, 2 walkers, 1 stacker
13 "Constellations II" - 19 builders, 2 climbers, 2 gliders, 10 platformers, 4 stackers, 4 bashers, 5 walkers
14 "Save Us!" - 14 stackers
15 "Nothing is Impossible" - 7 builders, 1 basher, 8 diggers
16 "Rendezvous at the Mountain Part II" - None

I'm pretty happy to call most of these for now; I'll have another look at 13 tomorrow evening because that one seems to be another troublesome one that people don't like, and those results are almost certainly improvable.

Massive thanks again to everyone who's contributed to these so far.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #114 on: June 30, 2020, 10:07:01 am »
I had a look at Nightmare On Lem Street III this evening. I've eliminated everything except 1 Floater and 1 Builder (see attached replays). This level hasn't been very popular so far, but it was great to SYCLW, and it's still one of my pack favourites!

Darn. I did this earlier this morning and forgot to check the forum. I've ended up with the same result too. Your Gold Talisman replay certainly came in handy. ;)

12 "Erm..." - 1 miner, 1 basher, 2 fencers, 1 builder, 2 walkers, 1 stacker
13 "Constellations II" - 19 builders, 2 climbers, 2 gliders, 10 platformers, 4 stackers, 4 bashers, 5 walkers

I made improvements to both these levels. My results are below. My zip compressor program expired so I'll just put up my best ones. At least I was able to get the talisman replays. Still, I'll need to find another one, probably PeaZip or something like that. :P

12: 1 miner, 1 fencer, 1 builder, 1 walker.
13: 8 builders, 1 stacker, 2 bashers.

1 walker replay attached for 12.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Several replays for 13, including a no platformer solution. 8) I've had no luck on levels 1 and 4 I'm afraid.
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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #115 on: July 01, 2020, 06:22:47 pm »
Thanks for these results, Minim. I'm quite happy to go ahead and post what we have so far on the Lemminas Records page. Of course, if anyone finds any improvements in the meantime I'll be sure to add them in.

My zip compressor program expired so I'll just put up my best ones. At least I was able to get the talisman replays. Still, I'll need to find another one, probably PeaZip or something like that. :P

I recommend 7Zip, that one seems to be the most user-friendly of the bunch and allows you to extract directly from context menu to basically wherever you want.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #116 on: July 02, 2020, 02:02:05 am »
Totals for Pandemonium: 27 Builders, 25 Stackers, 19 Platformers, 14 Walkers, 12 Diggers, 9 Bashers, 6 Cloners, 6 Fencers, 5 Climbers, 4 Gliders, 3 Blockers, 2 Miners, 2 Floaters, 1 Shimmier

I've also posted some interesting statistics regarding the SYCLW here!

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #117 on: July 02, 2020, 03:26:07 am »
Why the hurry? You knew I was still working on this. I'm sorry I couldn't finish the rank at your pace, but I do have a life outside Lemmings >:(

I've got Lemgate down to 1 walker, 1 builder, 1 stacker, which is a result I'm happy with. The builder is obviously necessary; the other two very likely are but it's not absolutely certain.

As for the rest: Haven't solved 1 yet. 3 is clearly unimprovable. I looked at 12 without finding anything. On 13, the bashers are obviously necessary since you don't start with enough skills to avoid the pickups. I was able to eliminate the stacker. Optimising builders remains to be done; I'll save this for another day.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 04:41:13 am by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #118 on: July 02, 2020, 02:00:04 pm »
I've got Lemgate down to 1 walker, 1 builder, 1 stacker, which is a result I'm happy with.

Nicely done! Some very clever solutions here. I've updated the records accordingly (including 0 Stackers for 13).

I wanted to upload the records as they were yesterday simply because I had some time to do so. I expect further improvements will happen, I don't think any set of SYCLW results is "final!" 8-) ;P

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #119 on: July 03, 2020, 08:05:34 am »
My zip compressor program expired so I'll just put up my best ones. At least I was able to get the talisman replays. Still, I'll need to find another one, probably PeaZip or something like that. :P

I recommend 7Zip, that one seems to be the most user-friendly of the bunch and allows you to extract directly from context menu to basically wherever you want.

Thanks for the help, but I found PeaZip. :) It might be slow, but at least it gets the job done for me. I might look into 7ZIP if PeaZip starts letting me down.

Meanwhile, WillLem and I started on MiniLems/Taxing:

1 "Watch out, there's traps about" - 1 builder
2 "Heaven can wait (we hope!!!!)" - 4 builders, 1 digger
3 "Lend a helping hand...." - 7 builders
4 "Compression Method 1" - 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 1 basher
5 "The ascending pillar scenario" - 6 builders
6 "Livin' On The Edge" - 5 builders, 1 basher

It's possible that 5 and 6 in particular may be improvable.

Good start. Great job getting Taxing 2 down to 4 builders! Containing the crowd without builders and blockers is always tricky.
I've done all of Taxing before I saw this post, and am currently working through the whole of Mayhem. I have improved Taxing 5 to 5 builders. Replay attached in the bundle containing all the other harder (or longer) challenges. 6 is very annoying indeed, particularly for no bashers so try avoiding improvements to that one. :P

Here are the rest of my results:

7: 1 builder, 1 basher
8: 7 builders
9: 5 builders
10: 7 builders, 2 bashers
11: 16 builders
12: 15 builders
13: 4 builders
14: 6 builders
15: 2 bombers, 6 builders
16: 5 floaters, 5 builders

Because 11 is so long and involves switches, I can't be bothered improving the builder count here. The 16-builder result is in my 0 digger solution. I thought it would be best to try eliminating the other skills first (or at least get everything down to 1, if not, a single digit) before uploading them. 16 is also likely to be improvable.
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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #120 on: July 09, 2020, 08:44:48 pm »
Looks like the challenges are going into a lull again. Still, I've worked through MiniLems Mayhem last week and here's what I've got so far. Once again, replays for harder (and more tedious) challenges attached in the bundle.

1 "Steel Works" - 1 floater, 15 builders
2 "The Boiler Room" - 6 builders
3 "The Crossroads" - 17 bashers
4 "Last one out is a rotten egg!" - 2 builders
5 "Pillars of Hercules" - 2 floaters, 9 builders
6 "Pea Soup" - 12 builders
7 "The Fast Food Kitchen..." - 8 builders, 1 basher
8 "Just a Minute..." - 2 bashers, 1 digger
9 "And then there were four...." - 18 builders
10 "No added colours or Lemmings" - 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 1 basher, 2 miners
11 "With a twist of lemming please" - 2 builders, 1 basher
12 "Going up......." - 14 builders, 1 basher
13 "The Steel Mines of Kessel" - 5 builders, 2 miners
14 "Mind the step....." - 20 builders, 9 bashers
15 "Save Me" - 9 walkers, 6 blockers, 9 builders, 1 digger
16 "Rendezvous at the Mountain" - 6 builders
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Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2020, 09:37:00 am »
Just a word on Redux.

Manic 18 "The Gate Trap Lemmings" - 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger (I did get a 1-basher replay, but Proxima produced a much tidier one)

Unfortunately, in Proxima's tidier "1 basher" replay, he used 3 bashers. ??? Your replay wasn't apparently included in the bundle. Do you still have this replay by any chance?

BTW I'm in the midst of developing a records thread for Redux. I've been looking at some replays to compile data. This just happens to be one of the errors I observed.
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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2020, 09:50:32 am »
Not sure how that happened. Here's a valid 1-basher replay.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #123 on: October 25, 2020, 02:19:09 am »
First half of DoveLems/Coward, results by WillLem, namida and me:

1 "Caution, Work in Progress !" - 1 builder
2 "Toes of the Earth" - 1 bomber, 2 blockers, 4 builders, 3 miners
3 "Impolite Climbers" - 1 bomber, 8 builders, 1 basher
4 "Use Something to Turn !" - 3 builders
5 "Avoid the FlameThrower" - 1 bomber, 1 digger
6 "Under the Floor" - 2 blockers, 9 builders, 1 miner
7 "City Machines Lemmings" - 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner
8 "Break the Wall" - 1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 1 miner, 1 digger
9 "Where a Lemming Has Never Gone" - 1 floater, 1 blocker, 1 basher, 8 builders
10 "Bashers are Back !" - 7 bashers
11 "Every Lem for Himself !" - 1 bomber, 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger
12 "To Infinity and BEYOND !!!" - 3 bombers, 8 builders
13 "SeeSaw" - 1 climber, 1 blocker, 4 builders, 7 bashers, 8 diggers
14 "The Labyrinth of the Lemmynotaur" - 8 builders, 2 bashers
15 "Strato and Cumulus" - no result
16 "Trident of Fire" - 1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 6 builders, 5 bashers, 4 diggers

This was my first time using 12.10 for a challenge session. Liking the new version so far :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 03:33:47 am by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #124 on: October 25, 2020, 03:31:59 am »
Here's my replays.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #125 on: October 25, 2020, 05:50:41 am »
Improvements on the remainder. If I don't specifically mention a skill, it's "no change", not "none".

Quote
6 "Under the Floor" - 2 blockers, 9 builders, 1 miner
Reduced to 1 blocker, 8 builders

Quote
7 "City Machines Lemmings" - 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner
Reduced to 1 climber

Quote
8 "Break the Wall" - 1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 1 miner, 1 digger
Eliminated the bomber and digger

Quote
11 "Every Lem for Himself !" - 1 bomber, 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger
Eliminated the bomber

Quote
13 "SeeSaw" - 1 climber, 1 blocker, 4 builders, 7 bashers, 8 diggers
Eliminated the blocker

Quote
14 "The Labyrinth of the Lemmynotaur" - 8 builders, 2 bashers
Improved to 7 builders

Quote
15 "Strato and Cumulus" - no result
Seems to require every skill (1 climber, 1 bomber, 2 builders, 1 basher, 2 miners)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #126 on: October 25, 2020, 09:14:24 am »
You found a couple of backroutes that needed fixing.

I would be very happy if you could post the replays in the DoveLems topic as well in the future, as then it would be easier to collect them all. :)


EDIT: Just found the plain replays now. Still need to check those for backroutes.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #127 on: October 25, 2020, 12:37:47 pm »
So, how does this impact results? Changed levels are 3, 5, 8, 11.

All my replays passed except 8, but I was able to re-solve 8 (naturally, since I solved it as intended :P )

I'll assume for now that the fixed levels require every skill, except for one builder on 3 and the extra bombers on 5. Thus:

3 "Impolite Climbers" - 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 8 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger
5 "Avoid the FlameThrower" - 1 bomber, 5 builders, 2 bashers, 1 digger
8 "Break the Wall" - 1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 1 miner, 1 digger
11 "Every Lem for Himself !" - 1 bomber, 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger

Current standings for 1-16:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #128 on: October 25, 2020, 12:41:54 pm »
I think most of the backroutes were from namida's replay bunch this time. But I'll definitly need to keep an eye on your results here. ;)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #129 on: November 08, 2020, 12:40:02 pm »
Redux results will need updating with the new level "The Boiler Room".

In original Lemmings, it's possible with builders only (using the sliding glitch), but this doesn't work in NeoLemmix. It's still solvable with builders only plus 1 bomber, eliminating other skills.

The bomber seems to be absolutely required, since there are no other destructive skills, and without destruction it's impossible to get a single lemming through the terrain cage around the exit. (NeoLemmix does not have the behaviour where a lemming stuck in terrain can be made to ascend by repeatedly assigning builders.)

That reduces it to a fewest-builders problem, and so far my best result is 10 builders. I believe, however, that this is likely to be improvable.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #130 on: November 10, 2020, 01:37:58 am »
Here's the rest of DoveLems/Coward. Results by WillLem, nin10doadict and myself.

17 "Lost in the Canyon" - 1 climber, 8 builders, 3 miners
18 "The Broken Tower" - 20 climbers, 2 builders, 1 basher
19 "Observation Posts" - 1 blocker, 5 builders, 2 bashers, 2 miners, 1 digger
20 "It's Not an Illusion !" - 7 blockers
21 "Death Camp" - 1 climber, 1 bomber, 7 builders, 3 bashers, 1 miner
22 "The Giant Stairway" - 8 builders
23 "Ask the Oracle" - 1 bomber, 2 blockers, 1 builder, 3 bashers
24 "Lemmings-Digging Iron Plates" - 1 climber, 5 bashers, 1 miner, 4 diggers
25 "Academy of Eight" - 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger
26 "Let Him Go Alone . . ." - 4 builders, 2 bashers, 3 diggers
27 "Molotov Cocktail and Co" - 20 diggers
28 "Valley of Chameleons" - 2 climbers, 1 floater, 2 bombers, 10 builders, 2 bashers, 3 miners
29 "Sky Won't Help You" - 11 builders
30 "A Perfect Symmetry" - 1 climber, 2 floaters, 3 builders, 2 bashers, 1 digger

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #131 on: November 11, 2020, 06:12:50 pm »
Redux results will need updating with the new level "The Boiler Room".

...

That reduces it to a fewest-builders problem, and so far my best result is 10 builders. I believe, however, that this is likely to be improvable.

6 builders attached. I agree that it cannot be done without at least one bomber.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #132 on: November 11, 2020, 06:15:22 pm »
Redux: Namida asked me to check whether the old result for Lunatic 6 "Which one are you trying to get?" still works, now that the duplicated hatch has been removed.

I confirmed that a 2-builder still exists and all other skills could be eliminated separately. Then I found a 1-builder solution!

This solution depends on no more than 10 lemmings coming from the left trapdoor. On the old version, 8 lemmings dropped from the left trapdoor, 15 from the middle and 7 from the right, so it would have worked.

It does, however, seem to depend on the fact that the terrain placement is not quite identical in the three clusters. But in fact the digger who saves the left group doesn't need to float, so the last floater could be given to the worker lemming for the middle and right groups. This would enable the solution to work even if the terrain clusters were identical.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 06:20:42 pm by Proxima »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #133 on: November 15, 2020, 03:25:14 am »
A few improvements for DoveLems:

Plain 10 "The Woodrock Temple", eliminated the builders (New result: 1 miner)
Plain 14 "Simple Life", eliminated the bashers (New result: 7 builders)
Plain 18 "Lemming's Brains", reduced builders to 3 (New result: 3 builders)
Plain 25 "Scrub", reduced builders to 2 (New result: 2 builders). Old result is 3 builders, as this might get patched.
Plain 28 "Here's the Final Flourish", eliminated the builder (New result: none)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 03:32:59 am by namida »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #134 on: November 15, 2020, 08:16:31 am »
Some more improvements. Some will probably get patched out - and the more I think about this, the more I'm starting to feel that the fact that this pack is still being actively backroute-patched does make it somewhat unsuitable for challenges... anyway, the improvements for Coward:

Coward 7 "City Machines Lemmings" - Eliminated the climber and reduced to 1 basher (New result: 1 blocker, 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner) - may get patched, old result is +1 climber, +1 basher
Coward 17 "Lost in the Canyon" - As two seperate replays, reduced builders to 7 and miners to 2 (New result: 1 climber, 7 builders, 2 miners)
Coward 19 "Observation Posts" - As two seperate replays, reduced miners to 1 and eliminated the digger (New result: 1 blocker, 5 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner)
Coward 25 "Academy of Eight" - Eliminated the bomber (New result: 1 of each except bomber, blocker) - will almost certianly get patched, old result is +1 bomber
Coward 30 "A Perfect Symmetry" - Eliminated the climber, reduced to 1 floater; and in a seperate replay, reduced to 2 builders (New result: 1 floater, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 1 digger) - will almost certianly get patched, old result is +1 climber, +1 floater, +1 builder

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #135 on: November 15, 2020, 08:47:31 am »
Turning my attention elsewhere, I decided to get started on Lemmings Plus Omega - here's the first half of Breezy. Most of these are trivial, but a few might be interesting enough for replays.

Breezy 1 "Gliding to Safety" - 2 gliders
Breezy 2 "Totally Original Stoner Level" - 3 stoners
Breezy 3 "You Shall Walk Again!" - 2 walkers
Breezy 4 "Attack Of The Clones" - 2 cloners
Breezy 5 "Now We Swim And Platform" - 3 platformers
Breezy 6 "Disarmed Approach" - 4 disarmers
Breezy 7 "Stacking The Odds" - 5 stackers
Breezy 8 "Classic Techniques" - 2 builders (replay attached)
Breezy 9 "Free To A Good Lemming" - none
Breezy 10 "Got Your Eye On A Lemming?" - none (no-builders replay attached)
Breezy 11 "Stones In The Sky" - 4 stoners
Breezy 12 "Gap Buster" - 2 platformers
Breezy 13 "Time To Gap It" - none (no-platformers replay attached)
Breezy 14 "What A Sixy Lemming" - none (diggers-only is a talisman, no diggers is trivial)
Breezy 15 "Get Your Lemming On" - none (no-builders is a talisman, builders-only is trivial)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #136 on: November 15, 2020, 09:07:10 am »
Quote
Some more improvements. Some will probably get patched out - and the more I think about this, the more I'm starting to feel that the fact that this pack is still being actively backroute-patched does make it somewhat unsuitable for challenges... anyway, the improvements for Coward:

For me it is perfect. People who especially search for broken solutions. :laugh:

I will add the replays to the pile I need to check. :)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #137 on: November 15, 2020, 01:56:08 pm »
Some more LPO/Breezy:

16 "Not That Way!" - 10 walkers, 1 builder
17 "A Straightforward Task..." - 1 builder
18 "Up, Up and Home!" - None
19 "A Blocker Would Be Handy" - None
20 "The Nuclear Plant" - None
21 "Triplicity" - None
22 "Swap Magic" - None
23 "Lemming Think For A Moment..." - None
24 "On The Home Turf" - None
25 "Two Sides To A Story" - None
26 "Parallel Process" - 1 glider
27 "Just Past Here..." - None
28 "Traptastic!" - 1 disarmer, 2 builders, 2 bashers
29 "Spelemkers" - None
30 "Lemming It The Hard Way" - None
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 04:16:04 pm by Proxima »

Offline Armani

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #138 on: November 15, 2020, 03:24:48 pm »
I looked at first rank of Dovelem and luckily, there were some improvements ;)

Plain10 The Woodrock Temple : Miner 1->0

Plain20 Wooden House : Miner 2->0

Plain27 Lemmings on the Spot : Builder 4->3

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #139 on: November 15, 2020, 04:30:35 pm »
Yesterday I went through the topic and compiled (almost) all replays into a zip, which I've attached to the first post. The only ones I removed were my own where they had been superseded by my own later results; I left in ones that had been superseded by other people as the different approaches we took might be of interest to some. I renamed any replays that didn't mention which skills they minimised, which unfortunately means you can't reliably guess which replays are mine and which are namida's from our naming styles.

I will update the zip in the first post regularly, but right now I'm holding off on adding new DoveLems replays as I'm waiting to see whether any of the new batch will lead to changes to the levels :P

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #140 on: November 16, 2020, 02:12:30 am »
WillLem, namida and I went through Doomsday Lemmings / Outbreak in discord today. Results:

1 "Grave Danger" - None
2 "Curse Reborn" - 2 builders, 1 basher
3 "Haunted Pier" - None
4 "Undead Lockdown" - None
5 "Making A Run For It!" - None
6 "Cursed Affliction" - 1 basher, 1 digger
7 "Undead Dipper" - 1 swimmer, 2 platformers, 2 builders, 1 digger

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #141 on: November 17, 2020, 03:35:12 am »
Here's my replays for Lemminsg Plus Omega / Puzzling.

Puzzling 3 "Horizontal Access" - 3 platformers
Puzzling 12 "Sky High Lemming" - No blockers
Puzzling 13 "The Martian Lake Beast" - No builders; no bashers (two replays)
Puzzling 14 "So This Is How It Ends..." - No climbers, no miners; no builders (two replays) - many more results (eg. no blockers) are variations on the no-builders one
Puzzling 17 "Can Your Lemming Do This?" - No builders
Puzzling 24 "I Swear Upon A Lemming" - No bashers
Puzzling 26 "The Castle Towers" - 2 platformers; no diggers (two replays)
Puzzling 30 "Drop Them Lems" - No gliders

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #142 on: November 17, 2020, 04:53:06 pm »
Results from the Omega/Puzzling sessions, and my own interesting replays:

1 "A Home Under The Bridge" - None
2 "It's A Fair Treede" - 1 builder
3 "Horizontal Access" - 3 platformers
4 "Not Very Lemming Friendly" - None
5 "Listen To Your Lemming" - None
6 "Traptastic!" - None
7 "More Than Just A Dream" - 6 builders
8 "Doing It By The Book" - None
9 "Trap Turner" - 1 disarmer
10 "A Little Bit Of A Lemming" - None
11 "Backwards Solution" - 5 climbers, 7 bombers
12 "Sky High Lemming" - 2 platformers, 3 builders
13 "The Martian Lake Beast" - None
14 "So This Is How It Ends..." - None
15 "Pass The Lemming, Please" - 1 platformer, 4 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger
16 "Beta Lemming" - None
17 "Can Your Lemming Do This?" - 1 basher
18 "Not THAT Simple..." - 2 platformers, 1 builder, 1 miner
19 "A Split Task" - 1 walker, 1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 miner, 1 cloner
20 "Don't Go Anywhere!!!" - 1 builder
21 "The Lower Branch" - None
22 "Don't Count Your Lemmings..." - None
23 "Eco-Friendly Lemmings" - 1 floater, 1 glider, 1 bomber, 2 blockers, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 basher
24 "I Swear Upon A Lemming" - 3 platformers, 3 builders, 1 digger
25 "So much Lem, so little time..." - None
26 "The Castle Towers" - 2 platformers, 1 miner
27 "Inversion Therapy" - 1 basher
28 "Sandy Showdown" - None
29 "Keepin' Us Down..." - 1 climber, 1 miner
30 "Drop Them Lems" - None

14 of 30 levels have a "None" result. It's about time I decided on a fixed cut-off point for this, so I've decided that for the tallies in the opening post, I will use the "All others in [rank] - None" format if the number of Nones is at least 10 or half the rank, whichever is less.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 05:35:50 pm by Proxima »

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #143 on: November 17, 2020, 05:14:40 pm »
Improvement to 1 Basher for Puzzling 27 "Inversion Therapy".

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #144 on: November 18, 2020, 12:53:59 am »
WillLem and I started the Perplexing rank, but the levels are getting very tough now, so we only made a little dent in the rank...

1 "Purple Pools" - 1 platformer, 2 builders (builders is WillLem's result)
2 "The Enclosure" - 4 floaters, 2 diggers
3 "Make Lem, Not War" - 2 climbers, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 basher, 2 miners
4 "Borrow A Bit Of Freedom?" - 1 platformer, 1 stacker, 1 basher, 1 miner
5 "When They Need It Most..." - 3 walkers, 1 climber, 1 swimmer, 1 glider, 1 stoner, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 basher
6 "Security Bypass" - None
7 "Dial "L" for Lemming" - 1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 2 stackers, 2 miners

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #145 on: November 25, 2020, 09:44:28 pm »
Update to DoveLems results:

Plain 20, Plain 25, Coward 25 and Coward 30 have been updated, so I won't add namida's and Armani's improvements to the OP, and will assume the current records for these levels still stand. Let me know if that's not the case for any level.

Coward 21 was also updated, and now seems to require all skills.

No other levels were updated, so I will assume Icho has decided that improvements for these levels are not backroutes, and new results will be allowed to stand.

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #146 on: November 26, 2020, 03:50:31 am »
As we suspected but didn't feel like verifying :P Manic 17 "Just a Minute..." is possible with 1 basher, 1 digger.

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #147 on: November 28, 2020, 06:08:28 am »
My replays for PimoLems / Calm.

Calm 2 "Training Day" - No floaters; No miners (separate replays)
Calm 8 "Cloud-Covered Stalactite" - 2 bashers
Calm 14 "Pagoda St" - No climbers; No bashers (separate replays)
Calm 16 "Don't Look Down!" - No miners
Calm 17 "You Shall Not Pass" - No builders; No bashers (separate replays)
Calm 18 "Clumps" - 2 builders
Calm 20 "Spring Break!" - 10 builders; No digger (separate replays)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #148 on: November 28, 2020, 06:22:57 am »
We're better at starting packs than finishing them :P so here are the results for PimoLems/Calm, done by me and namida.

Some of these may be considered backroutes or at least unintended, especially Calm 2 no floater / no miner, Calm 5 no builders and Calm 17 no bashers, but since this is an easy rank and most levels are any-way-you-want, I hope these are not going to lead to any changes to the levels.

1 "The Bad Beginning" - None
2 "Training Day" - 1 climber, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner
3 "We Are Lem-Bob-Omb!" - 4 bombers
4 "Emerald Cave" - 4 builders
5 "Better Run for Shelter" - None
6 "Lemming Falls" - None
7 "Lemstones" - 1 floater, 2 builders
8 "Cloud-Covered Stalactite" - 2 bashers
9 "The Strange Relics of Lemnos" - None
10 "It's a Kind Lembourhood" - 7 builders
11 "Minimal Design" - 3 builders
12 "These Ain't No Jedi Swords" - 1 climber, 1 miner, 3 diggers
13 "Lems, Stock, and Barrels" - None
14 "Pagoda St" - 2 builders
15 "Find Your Way Up !" - 3 builders
16 "Don't Look Down !" - 4 builders
17 "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" - None
18 "Clumps" - 2 blockers, 2 builders
19 "Iron Industry" - 2 bashers, 2 miners, 2 diggers
20 "Spring Break !" - 10 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #149 on: November 28, 2020, 08:57:12 am »
And the first half of Windy:

1 "Have A Lem Soda" - 2 builders
2 "Return to the Fold" - 1 climber, 4 builders, 1 miner, 1 digger
3 "You Lempty-Headed Creatures !" - 1 bomber, 1 miner
4 "Sandcastles in the Sand" - 7 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner
5 "How Do I Turn Back ?" - 3 builders, 1 basher
6 "Diggers Mania" - 6 blockers, 3 builders, 11 diggers
7 "Take on the World !" - 7 builders, 1 digger
8 "Step by Step" - 2 bashers, 1 digger
9 "The Hiking Tour" - 1 climber, 1 floater, 5 builders, 2 bashers, 1 digger
10 "Me sorry, me lost..." - 1 climber, 1 basher, 1 digger

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #150 on: November 28, 2020, 09:05:18 am »
My replays from the above:

Windy 1 "Have A Lem Soda" - 2 builders
Windy 4 "Sandcastles In The Sand" - 7 builders; No diggers (separate replays)
Windy 6 "Diggers Mania" - 6 blockers
Windy 7 "Take On The World" - 7 builders; 1 digger (separate replays)
Windy 8 "Step by Step" - No builder; No digger (separate replays), both are also no climber

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #151 on: November 29, 2020, 04:51:36 am »
The remainder of Windy and first half of Stormy, solved by me, namida and nin10doadict. There are a lot of levels in this bunch where the result is just "you need all the given skills", but since we started looking at PimoLems, it makes sense to finish the pack:

Windy

11 "From Pillar to Post" - 2 bombers, 1 builder, 2 diggers
12 "Break the Ice" - 2 climbers, 2 floaters, 7 builders
13 "Up the Abacus" - 2 builders, 2 bashers
14 "The Landing Strip" - 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 2 builders, 2 miners
15 "For the Greater Good" - 1 climber, 2 builders, 2 diggers
16 "Try To Compromise Before You Cue" - 2 blockers, 2 bashers, 1 digger
17 "X Marks Nothing" - 1 climber, 1 floater, 3 builders, 1 basher
18 "Underground Water Storage" - 1 basher, 1 miner
19 "Mizmaze" - 1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 1 basher
20 "Nick of Time !" - 1 climber, 1 floater, 10 builders, 4 bashers

Stormy

1 "Pop'n'top" - 2 climbers, 2 bombers, 1 builder, 2 bashers, 1 miner
2 "Bibbledi-Bobbledi-Boo" - 1 floater, 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner
3 "Diamond Ribs" - 2 climbers, 2 floaters, 1 builder, 6 bashers
4 "Rule of Three" - 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 9 builders
5 "Timing & Space" - 1 bomber, 3 builders, 1 basher
6 "A Breezy Breeze !" - 1 bomber, 4 builders, 1 basher
7 "Diving Area" - 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 3 bashers, 2 diggers
8 "Broad Pit" - 1 climber, 2 floaters, 2 bombers, 1 blocker, 8 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner
9 "A Matter of Pragmatism" - 1 climber, 3 blockers, 2 bashers, 1 digger
10 "Erbalunga" - 2 builders, 3 bashers, 3 diggers
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 05:38:45 am by Proxima »

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #152 on: November 29, 2020, 04:58:27 am »
I've only looked at Windy 10 to 13 since last time, due to the amount of time I spent on 13. (I'll probably continue soon anyway, but taking a break for now.)

We've got here:

Windy 11 "From Pillar to Post" - 2 bombers
Windy 12 "Break The Ice" - 7 builders; No basher; No digger (3 separate replays; the latter two I'm expecting will be patched out)
Windy 13 "Up The Abacus" - 2 builders; 2 bashers (separate replays)

In particular, Windy 13 with 2 builders is one of my most insane challenge replays of all time.

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #153 on: November 29, 2020, 05:57:00 am »
And the rest of Windy.

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #154 on: November 29, 2020, 10:35:58 am »
Improvements:

Stormy 1 "Pop n top" - 0 climbers, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 2 bashers, 0 miners
Stormy 3 "Diamond Ribs" - 0 climbers, 0 floaters, 0 builders, 5 bashers
Stormy 4 "Rule of Three" - 0 climbers, 0 floaters, 0 bombers, 7 builders
Stormy 8 "Broad Pit" - 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 0 blockers, 3 builders, 0 bashers, 0 miners

Online WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #155 on: November 30, 2020, 08:18:25 am »
Proxima, nin10doadict, namida and I have had a look at Casualemmings - Calm. Here are the results so far:

Calm 1 - None
Calm 2 - 2 Climbers
Calm 3 - 3 Blockers
Calm 4 - 1 Blocker, 1 Stoner
Calm 5 - 1 Basher, 1 Miner
Calm 6 - 5 Swimmers, 1 Platformer
Calm 7 - 5 Floaters, 5 Gliders
Calm 8 - 1 Builder, 3 Fencers
Calm 9 - 2 Stackers, 3 Bashers
Calm 10 - 1 Climber, 1 Platformer, 2 Bashers
Calm 11 - 3 Walkers, 2 Builders
Calm 12 - 5 Bombers
Calm 13 - 1 Climber, 1 Fencer, 1 Digger, 1 Cloner
Calm 14 - 2 Fencers, 1 Miners
Calm 15 - 10 Cloners
Calm 16 - 1 Walker, 1 Fencer, 1 Digger
Calm 17 - 1 Basher
Calm 18 - 10 Climbers, 4 Floaters, 1 Bomber, 1 Builder
Calm 19 - 2 Builders
Calm 20 - 1 Stoner
Calm 21 - 4 Platformers
Calm 22 - 1 Fencer, 1 Basher, 1 Miner, 1 Digger
Calm 23 - 2 Builders
Calm 24 - 5 Builders
Calm 25 - 2 Walkers, 1 Basher, 3 Climbers
Calm 26 - 1 Climber, 2 Gliders, 1 Stoner, 2 Builders
Calm 27 - 1 Climber, 1 Bomber, 1 Builder, 3 Diggers
Calm 28 - 1 Floater, 1 Glider, 1 Platformer
Calm 29 - 1 Swimmer, 1 Floater, 1 Disarmer, 1 Platformer, 1 Builder, 1 Basher, 1 Digger
Calm 30 - 1 Miner, 6 Cloners
Calm 31 - 1 Builder
Calm 32 - 1 Glider, 1 Basher, 1 Miner
Calm 33 - 3 Bombers, 1 Builder
Calm 34 - None
Calm 35 - 1 Walker, 1 Builder, 1 Basher, 1 Fencer, 1 Miner, 1 Digger
Calm 36 - 2 Blockers, 5 Builders, 3 Bashers
Calm 37 - 1 Platformer
Calm 38 - 1 Climber, 2 Bashers, 1 Miner, 4 Diggers
Calm 39 - 10 Gliders, 1 Digger
Calm 40 - Level doesn't load due to missing terrain piece
Calm 41 - None
Calm 42 - 1 Climber, 1 Builder, 2 Bashers, 1 Fencer, 2 Miners, 2 Diggers
Calm 43 - 1 Floater, 3 Platformers, 2 Miners

Notable replays attached.

Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without
« Reply #156 on: November 30, 2020, 06:37:45 pm »
Here's my notable replays for Casualemmings / Calm (1 to 41; haven't looked at the last two yet).