Author Topic: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?  (Read 13759 times)

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Online namida

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How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« on: July 22, 2009, 12:05:55 pm »
RULES
1) You must use only one type of skill.
2) You must not use more of that skill than the level actually gives you.
3) You must save at least the required %, in the set time limit.
4) Glitches present in DOS Lemmings are allowed. Glitches unique to Lemmix, if any, are not. However, glitch solutions must be stated as such.
5) A level that has already been solved with one skill may be attempted with another.
6) Please state if 100% is acheivable.
7) Only the DOS version, or versions 100% true to DOS's mechanics (as far as I'm aware, that means only Lemmix) are allowed.

LIST SO FAR

Please note that "no solutions found" may, in some cases, simply mean that such a solution has not yet been discovered but does exist. Likewise, even if a level states that a glitch is used, there may also be another solution that doesn't use one. The *GLITCH* tag applies to the skill next to it only. For example, if a level says "Floaters, Builders (glitch)", this would mean it can be solved with floaters without using a glitch, or with builders using a glitch. The same applies to the 100% tag.

Original Lemmings

Fun
1: Diggers (100%)
2: Floaters (100%)
3: Blockers
4: No solutions found
5: Bashers (100%)
6: Bombers
7: Builders (100%)
8: Bombers, Blockers, Builders (100%)
9: Builders (100%), Bashers (100%)
10: Builders (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
11: Builders (glitch, 100%)
12: Bashers (100%)
13: Diggers (100%)
14: Bashers (100%)
15: No solutions found
16: Builders (100%)
17: Bashers, Miners
18: Bombers
19: Builders (100%)
20: Builders (100%)
21: Bombers, Bashers, Miners
22: No solutions found
23: No solutions found
24: Bombers, Builders (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
25: Bombers, Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
26: Builders (100%)
27: Floaters (glitch), Builders (100%)
28: No solutions found
29: No solutions found
30: Bombers, Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)

Tricky
1: Builders (100%)
2: Diggers (100%)
3: Builders (100%)
4: Builders (100%)
5: No solutions found
6: Builders (glitch, 100%)
7: No solutions found
8: Builders (100%)
9: Builders (100%)
10: No solutions found
11: No solutions found
12: No solutions found
13: Builders (100%)
14: No solutions found
15: Bombers
16: No solutions found
17: Bombers
18: No solutions found
19: No solutions found
20: No solutions found
21: No solutions found
22: Bombers, Builders (100%)
23: No solutions found
24: No solutions found
25: No solutions found
26: Builders (100%)
27: No solutions found
28: Builders (glitch)
29: Bashers
30: No solutions found

Taxing
1: No solutions found
2: No solutions found
3: Builders (100%)
4: No solutions found
5: No solutions found
6: No solutions found
7: No solutions found
8: No solutions found
9: No solutions found
10: Builders (glitch, 100%)
11: No solutions found
12: No solutions found
13: No solutions found
14: No solutions found
15: Builders (100%)
16: No solutions found
17: No solutions found
18: Builders (glitch, 100%)
19: Bombers
20: Bashers, Miners
21: No solutions found
22: No solutions found
23: Builders (100%)
24: Builders (100%)
25: No solutions found
26: No solutions found
27: No solutions found
28: No solutions found
29: No solutions found
30: Diggers (100%)

Mayhem
1: No solutions found
2: Builders (glitch)
3: No solutions found
4: Bombers, Bashers (100%)
5: No solutions found
6: Builders (100%)
7: No solutions found
8: No solutions found
9: No solutions found
10: No solutions found
11: Diggers (100%)
12: No solutions found
13: No solutions found
14: Builders (100%)
15: No solutions found
16: No solutions found
17: No solutions found
18: Builders (100%)
19: No solutions found
20: No solutions found
21: No solutions found
22: No solutions found
23: No solutions found
24: Bashers (100%)
25: Builders (100%)
26: Bombers
27: No solutions found
28: No solutions found
29: No solutions found
30: No solutions found

Oh No! More Lemmings!

Tame
1: Bombers, Builders, Bashers, Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
2: Climbers (glitch), Bombers, Builders (100%), Bashers (100%), Miners, Diggers
3: Bombers, Bashers (100%), Miners, Diggers
4: Bombers, Blockers, Builders (100%), Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
5: Bombers, Miners, Diggers
6: Bombers, Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers
7: Climbers (glitch), Builders (100%), Bashers (100%)
8: Bombers, Builders (100%), Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
9: Climbers (glitch), Builders (100%), Bashers (100%)
10: Bashers (100%), Miners
11: Bombers, Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers
12: Bombers, Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers
13: Builders (100%)
14: Builders (100%), Bashers (100%)
15: Builders (100%), Bashers (100%), Miners
16: Bombers, Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers
17: Bombers, Builders, Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
18: Bashers (100%), Miners
19: Bombers, Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
20: No solutions found

Crazy
1: No solutions found
2: No solutions found
3: Bombers
4: Builders (100%)
5: Builders (100%)
6: No solutions found
7: No solutions found
8: No solutions found
9: No solutions found
10: No solutions found
11: Builders
12: No solutions found
13: No solutions found
14: No solutions found
15: No solutions found
16: No solutions found
17: No solutions found
18: No solutions found
19: No solutions found
20: No solutions found

Wild
1: No solutions found
2: No solutions found
3: Builders
4: No solutions found
5: No solutions found
6: No solutions found
7: No solutions found
8: No solutions found
9: No skills at all (glitch, 100%), Bashers (glitch, 100%)
10: No solutions found
11: No solutions found
12: No solutions found
13: No solutions found
14: No solutions found
15: No solutions found
16: No solutions found
17: No solutions found
18: No solutions found
19: Builders (100%)
20: No solutions found

Wicked
1: No solutions found
2: No solutions found
3: No solutions found
4: No solutions found
5: No solutions found
6: Bombers, Miners
7: No solutions found
8: No solutions found
9: Builders
10: No solutions found
11: No solutions found
12: No solutions found
13: Builders (100%)
14: No solutions found
15: No solutions found
16: No solutions found
17: Builders (100%)
18: Builders (100%)
19: No solutions found
20: No solutions found

Havoc
1: No solutions found
2: No solutions found
3: No solutions found
4: No solutions found
5: No solutions found
6: Miners (100%)
7: No solutions found
8: No solutions found
9: No solutions found
10: Builders
11: No solutions found
12: Builders (100%)
13: No solutions found
14: No solutions found
15: No solutions found
16: No solutions found
17: No solutions found
18: No solutions found
19: No solutions found
20: No solutions found

Holiday Lemmings

Frost
1: Bashers (100%)
2: Floaters (100%)
3: No solutions found
4: No solutions found
5: Bashers (100%), Miners (100%)
6: No solutions found
7: No solutions found
8: Bombers, Builders (100%), Bashers (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
9: Builders (100%)
10: No solutions found
11: No solutions found
12: No solutions found
13: Builders (glitch, 100%)
14: No solutions found
15: No solutions found
16: No solutions found

Hail
1: No solutions found
2: Bombers
3: No solutions found
4: No solutions found
5: No solutions found
6: No skills at all, Blockers
7: Builders (100%)
8: No solutions found
9: No solutions found
10: No solutions found
11: No solutions found
12: Builders (100%)
13: No solutions found
14: No solutions found
15: No solutions found
16: No solutions found

Flurry
1: Climbers (100%), Builders (100%)
2: Floaters (100%), Miners (100%), Diggers
3: Bombers, Builders (100%), Bashers (100%), Miners
4: Bombers, Builders (100%), Bashers (100%), Miners (100%)
5: Bombers, Builders (glitch?), Miners (100%), Diggers (100%)
6: Bashers (100%, not so much a glitch as an oversight in the level's design)
7: Builders (100%), Bashers (100%)
8: No solutions found
9: Bashers
10: No solutions found
11: Miners (100%), Diggers
12: Builders (100%), Bashers (100%)
13: Builders (100%)
14: No solutions found
15: Builders (100%)
16: No solutions found

Blitz
1: No solutions found
2: No solutions found
3: Diggers (100%)
4: No solutions found
5: No solutions found
6: Bashers (100%)
7: Builders (glitch, 100%)
8: No solutions found
9: No solutions found
10: Builders (100%)
11: No solutions found
12: No solutions found
13: No solutions found
14: Miners (100%)
15: No solutions found
16: No solutions found



Random Trivia
- The level which inspired me to create this topic upon discovering the solution to was Tame 7, with builders.
- Two levels can be beaten with no skills at all, those being Wild 9 and Hail 6. The former requires a glitch to do this, the latter does not.
- There is no level on which all 8 skills, or even 7 of the skills, have potential solutions. However, there are two so far which 6 different skills offer potential solutions (in both cases, Floaters are one of the skills that do not, one of the cases has Climbers as the other skill and one has Blockers). There are plenty of levels for which 5 skills offer solutions, in the majority of these it's Climbers, Floaters and Blockers that don't.

Offline Proxima

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2009, 01:16:19 pm »
Here's my preliminary list for the Fun levels. This is entirely off the top of my head with no testing; question marks indicate levels I'm not sure about.

1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11?, 13, 14?, 16?, 18, 19, 21?, 24, 25, 26, 27, 30

Online namida

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2009, 01:47:02 pm »
11, I don't think you have enough bashers to do it. With infinite amount, it could probably be done.

12 might or might not be, I'm not sure. How many builders does it give you again?

14 is not. 16 should be, though.

Why isn't 20 on that list? I would think it could be done... (Builders again)

21, I *think*, should be doable.

I'll try these ones out.

Results:
11: Fail
12: Fail
16: Pass with builders (Also, as it was well under 2 minutes, and used exactly 20 builders (one of which could've been avoided), I think Taxing 3 could also be done since it gives you 30 builders, and I only lost 5 lemmings here who, through a few more builders, could've been saved - some of them could've been saved as is, had I tried harder)
20: Pass with builders (This one is freaking GENIUS! Try it!)
21: Pass with bashers

Taxing3: SUCCESS. :)

Offline Fleech

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2009, 02:09:42 pm »
11 can be done with builders.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2009, 10:04:40 pm »
This definitely makes for some interesting challenges. 8) Here's Tricky 29 using only bashers.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2009, 11:11:23 pm »
Wicked: None yet

Add Wicked 6 to the list.  It can be done with just miners due to the unusually low % required, letting you ignore the far left and far right entrances completely.  It's also the minimum skill and under-1-minute solution, as others had already discovered in the corresponding threads.

Offline Yawg

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2009, 11:41:14 pm »
I'm 99% sure Fun 12 is doable with bashers.

EDIT: Just managed to pull it off  8)
Finally released my 6th level pack! Ten levels intended to push you quite a bit beyond the expectations of Mayhem/Havoc; check 'em out and let me know what you think!

http://camanis.net/lemmings/levelpacks.php?info&pack=174

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2009, 12:05:00 am »
I'm 99% sure Fun 12 is doable with bashers.

You're correct. :thumbsup: Replay attached.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2009, 01:01:08 am »
Along the same lines, Fun 14 is possible as well.

My challenge thread on the old forum (link in my sig) has some "builder-only" challenges that you can add to the list. Though I see you've found some of these already :)

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2009, 01:32:05 am »
Along the same lines, Fun 14 is possible as well.

I was working on that.  Here we go, replay attached.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2009, 02:33:32 am »
Here's what I've got for Tricky:

1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 13, 15, 17, 22, 29

I suspect 28 is also possible using the sliding glitch, but it would require a lot of release rate adjustments to get everyone (or almost everone) bunched together without a blocker.  I think I'll let Clam Spammer or ccexplore look at this one, as they are better suited for these types of challenges than I am.

Offline Yawg

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 03:10:33 am »
28 is definitely possible, due to the miraculously convenient seaweed placement DIRECTLY beneath the exit. I did a trial run to see how the actual building would work out, and I think some RR adjustments could get all the lemmings to stack neatly. Unfortunately I have no idea how to go about finding those optimizations. So until someone figures it out, here's how I approached the problem. With no RR changes, I managed to slide 18% home.
Finally released my 6th level pack! Ten levels intended to push you quite a bit beyond the expectations of Mayhem/Havoc; check 'em out and let me know what you think!

http://camanis.net/lemmings/levelpacks.php?info&pack=174

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2009, 03:14:25 am »
I suspect 28 is also possible using the sliding glitch, but it would require a lot of release rate adjustments to get everyone (or almost everone) bunched together without a blocker.

Actually it wasn't too bad, you can keep the RR at the same number for the most part.  It turns out I can easily adapt my 100%, 10 builders + 2 climbers solution from the challenge thread into a 96% builders-only solution.  The level only requires 90%.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 03:24:04 am »
Add Wild 9 (Ice Station Lemming) to the list.  It can be beaten using no skills at all (although you might want to mark it with an asterisk because it uses a glitch.

Here's how to pull it off:
Quote from: Highlight to read
This uses the nuke glitch.  Nuke the level just before the second lemming comes out.  One of the easiest levels to perform a glitch on ever, in my opinion.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2009, 08:54:15 am »
Crazy 4 is an easy one that has been missed so far.


From my "builder-only challenges", you can also add:

Tricky 26
Taxing 10 (same as Tricky 6)
Taxing 15
Mayhem 18
Wicked 13
Wicked 17
Wicked 18
Frost 9
Blitz 10

Online namida

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2009, 04:14:33 pm »
Added all of those. :)

Clam, do you have a replay for Crazy 4? I simply *cannot* see it being possible without the climber... I've added it to the list anyway, but I'd just like to see it in action, that's all.

Online namida

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2009, 04:38:13 pm »
After managing Tricky 9 for myself, I thought "Hey, why can't Mayhem 6 be done this way?"

I tried it.

It can.

Offline Yawg

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2009, 07:14:10 pm »
Why on earth would you need a climber for crazy 4? Since the first time I played that level back in the '90s I've solved it with nothing but builders...I always thought it was the intended solution and the builder and floater were red herrings  :D

Quote
Simply use 3 bridges to get a lemming to the top through the last gap in the top pipe, then build to the exit
Finally released my 6th level pack! Ten levels intended to push you quite a bit beyond the expectations of Mayhem/Havoc; check 'em out and let me know what you think!

http://camanis.net/lemmings/levelpacks.php?info&pack=174

Offline LemSteven

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2009, 12:01:44 am »
I've just confirmed Fun 17 using miners.  8)

Quote from: Highlight to read
The general idea is to create a small holding cell and get everone bunched up in it, save one.  That one lemming clears the path and hits steel on his last swipe, and then turns around so he can mine the others out of the cell.  If the holding cell is sufficiently small, enough will survive the traps to pass the level.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2009, 02:09:40 am »
I've just confirmed Fun 17 using miners.  8)

Wow, good job! :thumbsup:

Attached is my own attempt on this.  I think I used the same basic idea LemSteven did, but I used one additional trick with the lemmings from the leftmost entrance to help improve the odds of success.  The attached solution saves 52% (26).  [edit: improve to 60% (30), probably can't get much higher than that with this method]

Online namida

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2009, 09:37:31 am »
I'm reformatting the list to show which skills can be used, so if you think it's possible with a skill that's not already on there, let me know. This is related to levels which have more than one skill which could be used as the only skill to beat them (for example, you could use either blockers, miners or diggers for Fun 8). Please also mention if the solution uses a glitch.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2009, 09:56:34 am »
There's a mistake on your list for Tricky 26.  It uses builders not bashers (you need 3 bashers to get through the pillar in time and the level only has 2).

Also, instead of saying "not possible", I think it's more accurate to say "no solution given" or something like that.

Online namida

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2009, 10:11:25 am »
Fixed both.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2009, 11:37:51 am »
A few fixes to the Fun list:

8: Miners and diggers? I'd like to see some replays...
10: Possible with builders. (100%)
21: Possible with bombers (not fully confirmed, but almost certainly possible)
25: Possible with diggers (100%)
27: Possible with floaters (nuke glitch)

Online namida

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2009, 11:48:46 am »
8, that was theoretical, like your bombers for Fun 21 (which I'm actually not too sure about either) and some others. I just tried it, and while someone like cc with really good knowledge may be able to do it using the nuke glitch, I sure can't. For now, I've removed them.

Offline Fleech

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2009, 12:25:55 pm »
Just noticed that Taxing 18 doesn't have a solution listed yet. Like Fun 11 it can be done with builders, saving 100%.

I've just had a disappointing attempt at Taxing 14. The fall height from the head is too big. :(

Online namida

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2009, 12:28:15 pm »
Can anyone improve on this for Tricky 7? I'm sure with perfect placement, it can be done, but I'm not skilled enough to work out how to do so.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2009, 07:50:14 pm »
I've tried this already yesterday but sadly, it's not looking good so far.  My best attempt so far saves 3 short of the required (52 instead of 55).

The main problem is there're not enough builders to hold back the crowd sufficiently while you build your path to your exit.  I needed 6 builders to block off the right side, then 6 to get to the last pillar, and then 8 to reach the exit, leaving no spare builders for things like holding back the crowd or even delaying a lemming.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2009, 08:19:45 pm »
Fun 24 using bombers attached.
Fun 30 100% using diggers attached.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2009, 10:21:46 pm »
Taxing has proven to be not very good for this type of challenge.  The only level I was able to add is Taxing 20, which can be done with either bashers only or miners only.  I've attached the replay for the miners-only solution.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2009, 01:17:18 am »
Taxing 15 with builders is an easy 100%.


Here's a bombers-only solution for Fun 21 AND Mayhem 26.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2009, 01:29:58 am »
Here's a bombers-only solution for Mayhem 4.  I found that creating a more straightforward path for the lemmings proved problematic because you end up with too many lemmings that overtake your bombers, and they eventually turn around, head left and fall to their death.  Hence the roundabout route you see in the replay after an hour or so of experimentation in Lemmix.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2009, 01:39:12 am »
You can add Mayhem 14 with builders for 100%.  Also, I'm pretty sure that someone like ccexplore just might be able to pull off Mayhem 2 with builders using the sliding glitch.  ;)

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2009, 01:57:28 am »
Also, I'm pretty sure that someone like ccexplore just might be able to pull off Mayhem 2 with builders using the sliding glitch.  ;)

Actually someone else basically already did this.  Take this 100% Mayhem 2 solution replay (I think from tseug on the old old forum), and just omit all the moves that uses climbers.  The crowd being raised by the sliding glitch has 75 lemmings and you only need 72, so it suffices.

Naturally, the next question would be whether it's possible to do 100% using only builders.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2009, 02:19:50 am »
Thanks to A.T., the nuke glitch, and my own challenges, you can add these skills to the Tame list.

2: climbers (nuke glitch), miners, diggers
3: miners, diggers
5: miners, diggers
6: bombers, miners (100%), diggers
7: climbers (nuke glitch), bashers (100%)
9: climbers (nuke glitch), bashers (100%)
10: miners
11: miners (100%), diggers
12: miners, diggers
14: bashers (100%)
16: diggers

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2009, 03:48:35 am »
Random Trivia

You might want to hold off on that, until this thread has settled down.  For example:

Quote
- The widest variety that does not allow for 100% in any way goes to Fun 8. Three different skills can be used, yet 100% cannot be acheived with any of them.

False.  I thought it's pretty well known that you can get 100% on both Fun 8 and Tricky 22 with builders alone, but the 100% replay posted on the Lemmings File Archive apparently uses a basher.  Anyway, replay attached.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2009, 09:11:06 am »
Some improvements to the Fun list.

Fun 10 with diggers can be done with 100% saved, and this level can also be done with miners (not with 100% though - replay attached).
Fun 16 with builders can be done with 100%, contrary to what your "random trivia" says - this was one of my "builder-only challenges".
Fun 21 with miners and Fun 30 with bombers are also possible. Replays attached :)

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2009, 10:25:16 am »
Fun 30 with bombers was one I simply overlooked. >_>

Fun 21 with miners is interesting, though.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2009, 11:04:27 am »
Ugh. I just spent an hour trying to do Mayhem 18 with only builders... and I then realise it's already on the list. >_>

Here's my replay anyway, might as well post it.


Anyway, I had an idea that we should try to get a complete list of replays and compile an archive for the challenge. (For the nuke glitch, just make the replay as you would if it did work). To be standard, use the following filename format:

[Rating][Level]_[skill]_[100]_[glitch]_[username].lrb

For example, Fun 1 with diggers saving 100% done by me would be Fun01_diggers_100_namida.lrb. Tricky 5 done with climbers using a glitch by me would be Tricky05_climbers_glitch_namida.lrb.

This way, we can create a full archive of replays for this challenge.

I've already made replays for all skills on Fun 1 to 8, and bashers on Fun 9, as well as Mayhem 6 and Mayhem 18 with builders, and Tricky 22 with both bombers and builders.

Just to make this easier, could you all please post a full list of replays you've done so far?

The whole idea is only one replay per skill per level, with the priority order (lowest to highest) being glitch non-100, non-glitch non-100 and glitch 100, non-glitch 100. In the case of two with the same existing for the same level, the one that was posted first will be accepted. In the case of a non-glitch but non-100% and a glitch 100% existing simultaneously, both will be added.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2009, 03:17:18 pm »
Wild
9: No skills at all (glitch, 100%), Builders (glitch, 100%), Bashers (glitch, 100%)

Um, have you actually try the one with builders?  I'm not getting this to work in either Lemmix or DOS Lemmings.  Even nuking at the latest possible moment (ie. immediately before the 2nd lemming comes out), if I start building close enough for the lemming to exit after laying down one brick, the explosion countdown reaches 0 before the builder can move up onto the brick and exit.  If I start building a little farther away so that the builder can get up onto the build brick before the explosion countdown reaches 0, it's too far for him to hit the exit trigger.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2009, 12:00:46 am »
I'm sure we don't need a full set of replays for this. Especially not for the early Fun levels, or others that only give you one type of skill. I think the system we've used in the other challenge threads (post a replay unless it's really easy) works quite well, and I don't see any reason to change it.


Here's Havoc 6 with miners, without using the direct drop trick.

And Havoc 10 can be done with builders, of course.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2009, 11:26:45 am »
Just realize Fun 17 can also be done using bashers only.  Replay attached, hint below:

Quote from: Highlight to read
Using the Fun 12 basher trick, you can gather lemmings from 3 of the 4 entrances into the same area.

By the way, namida, the Fun 14 bashers-only solution saves 100%, which your list fails to indicate.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2009, 02:00:43 pm »
Here's a builders-only solution for Fun 27 that saves 100% without using the direct drop trick.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2009, 02:55:21 pm »
Nice. I already knew of that solution (or rather, a very similar one), but hadn't managed to get 100% with it.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2009, 06:58:09 am »
I've got another two for Tame:

Here's 1 and 17, both with builders.

 8)

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2009, 08:32:17 am »
I myself tried something like that with Tame 1, although /just/ couldn't get it to work. I figured someone would eventually.

However, Tame 17 is freaking AMAZING.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2009, 09:26:54 am »
Cool.  I had been looking at Fun 30 for something like that, but unfortunately, on that level the fall seems to be just a hair too high to allow the 21st lemming to reach the exit before his time's up.

For those who're trying this sort of solution, here's an important fact of game mechanics to keep in mind:

Falling lemmings cannot exit, they must actually land (even if it would've been a splat) first before they can exit.  So make sure to exclude from the crowd those lemmings that would've exploded very close to the exit's ground.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2009, 10:54:44 am »
I noticed that too on Fun 30. In fact, that was the first level I checked. It's a bit of a disappointment, but it's nice that the trick works on some levels at least :P

Anyway, here's a couple more that I missed earlier. Tame 15 and 18 with miners. (I was using my miners wrong before... :XD:)

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2009, 11:26:02 am »
I was wondering: Do either of yous think Taxing 15 can be done with Bashers?

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2009, 08:30:26 pm »
Highly doubtful.  Based on my current understanding, I believe you need at least 2 bashers to effect each increase of height of up to 5 pixels.  I haven't look at Taxing 15 in detail but seems like you'd need to go up more than 50 pixels.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2009, 12:56:53 am »
Looks like Tame 1 can be done with bashers too :)

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2009, 01:15:35 am »
On a less exciting note, here's correcting the current list for 100% for a couple of builders-only solutions, for original Lemmings:

Fun 11: same 100% solution as Taxing 18's
Tricky 3: see attached
Tricky 4: I think this one is pretty obvious.  I can provide a replay of only the key moves if people really need it.
Mayhem 25/Tricky 13: see attached, although this is a thoroughly conventional solution, so it's probably more fun to not watch the replay.
Mayhem 18: see attached.  Again, mostly a conventional solution, the only thing remotely of interest is maybe how I started for the lower two entrances.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2009, 06:07:52 am »
You can also add the 100% tag to:

Fun 12 with bashers (replay attached)
Crazy 4 and 5 with builders (these levels require 100%)
Wicked 13, 17 and 18 with builders

Offline Minim

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2009, 07:35:57 am »
If you have the PSP version of lemmings, you can solve Taxing 21 using builders, 100%. :P
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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2009, 08:54:46 am »
Sorry, but the PSP version isn't accepted in these challenge topics, or at least not this one, only DOS and Lemmix are. (And any others that have the exact same mechanics and levels.)

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2009, 09:05:31 am »
What about Amiga lemmings?

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2009, 09:40:18 am »
Hm. It does have a few differences, though... Like, does the sliding glitch work on it? And since it can handle 100 lemmings, that'll mean some levels allow you to lose more lemmings than DOS does...

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2009, 10:13:58 am »
You really need to keep each port of Lemmings separate.  Although there are many similarities, from experience, I can tell you almost every port has its own idiosyncracies.  They may be subtle but that's exactly what will come into play in a lot of these challenge solutions.  Remember, even a one-pixel difference can sometimes make or break a solution.

Here are a number of differences I can think of off top of my head between the Amiga and DOS versions:

1) time runs out faster on the Amiga version compared with DOS
2) direct drop to exit doesn't work
3) nuke glitch doesn't work
4) cannot change release rate with game paused
5) I think the basher's terrain removal can reach one pixel further horizontally on the Amiga (but the logic determine when to stop bashing etc. are all identical)
6) the backstroke of the basher (when you use the trick of having the basher remove some terrain "behind" him) is distinctly different
7) the digger requires more pixels around him to continue digging.  In DOS it continues as long as any 1 of the 9 pixels of terrain are present.  In Amiga, I think you need at least 1 of the 7 pixels of terrain (ie. excluding the leftmos and rightmost pixels of the 9) to be present.

Also, not only do most levels have 100 lemmings instead of 80, a number of levels have stricter requirements on the Amiga compared with DOS (eg. Taxing 22, Mayhem 4, Mayhem 26), meaning requiring 100% and/or given less skills.

That said, most of the glitches on DOS Lemmings do work on the Amiga, including the sliding glitch, the "climb-through-terrain" glitch, miner glitches, Wicked 7 glitch, and steel destruction glitches.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2009, 10:29:03 am »
Ah, well, not like I have an Amiga emulator other than WinUAE installed on this thing.  I use Linux quite a lot these days; it's practically my main OS.

Offline Clam

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #59 on: August 01, 2009, 03:22:19 am »
Back on topic...

Frost
1: bashers (100%)
2: floaters (100%)
5: bashers (100%)
8: bombers, builders (possibly 100%, not confirmed), bashers (100%), miners (100%), diggers (100%)
9: builders (100%) [this is already on the list]
13: builders (nuke glitch, 100%)

Hail
2: bombers
6: no skills, blockers
7: builders (100%)
12: builders (100%)

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2009, 10:47:22 am »
I only have Lemmix, which doesn't have the 94 levels, so I can't test it, but shouldn't Hail 8 be possible with builders?

Also, for Frost 8, by looking at the level I can't see how it would be possible to beat with builders yet not acheive 100% with them...

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2009, 11:01:31 am »
Hail 8 with builders is impossible because of a spike that extends too close to the top of the level for the lemmings to pass over it. Frost 8 with builders runs into the time limit, since it takes a little while to build out (even if you stack bridges to get out quickly).

By the way, how did you do Flurry 7 and 14 with builders? I've tried both of these without success.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2009, 11:37:36 am »
I can't remember how I did 14 at the moment, so I can't post anything for that just yet.
As for Flurry 7, though:

Quote from: Highlight to read
The terrain already confines the lemmings, and this confinement is easy to break out of. You can therefore make the LAST lemming build over this confined area, thus giving you a worker lemming. For the spikes at the end, the spacing is such that if you build from the top of one then walk off that bridge, you'll land on the top of another one. The rest is very simple.

And for those who'd rather see it in action, I've attached a replay.

I think, like the Flurry 3 with 1 skill in the Fewest Skills topic, this too was a simple oversight on everyone else's part. But, part of why it may have been overlooked is that, rather than using glitches or misuse of skills that everyone else is mostly looking at, it simply uses unexpected but classic-style lemmings logic.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2009, 11:53:48 am »
I think, like the Flurry 3 with 1 skill in the Fewest Skills topic, this too was a simple oversight on everyone else's part.

"Everyone else" but me anyway.  I have not begun to look at the Holiday Lemming levels for this thread yet, although I guess it's time since it does look like there isn't much else to do in Lemmings or ONML for this.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2009, 11:50:01 pm »
Been watching the progress in these challenge threads lately without having much time to try anything myself, and I'm afraid it will keep like this, apart from little contibutions like below.

Some of these achievements are pretty amazing though, especially ClamSpammer's and ccexplore's. :thumbsup:

Attached is Tame 12 with miners only and 100% saved (which wasn't previously noted), borderline glitchy.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2009, 11:59:42 pm »
The same trick I used on Fun 10... I realised that as soon as I read your post :XD:.

Great work :thumbsup:

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2009, 02:58:02 am »
I wouldn't at all consider that glitchy. That's just genius there.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2009, 04:30:36 am »
Back to Holiday Lemmings for a moment...

Yes, Flurry 7 was an oversight from me. Sometimes I get stuck in one method of thinking, and don't consider other options. And sometimes that doesn't work :(

If Flurry 14 is at all possible, it certainly requires the direct drop trick and should be marked as a glitch solution.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2009, 06:27:11 am »
Direct drop is in every version as if they never bothered to fix it, isn't it?  There is a chance that it is supposed to happen.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2009, 07:02:02 am »
It doesn't happen in Amiga Lemmings, from what I've heard.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2009, 11:56:28 am »
Or the Mac version.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2009, 12:32:40 pm »
Direct drop is in every version as if they never bothered to fix it, isn't it?  There is a chance that it is supposed to happen.

I don't know what other versions it works on besides DOS.  This means it actually works in less version than glitches like the sliding glitch and the miner glitch.  And if you look at DOS Lemming's game programming it is pretty clearly not intended.  The game explicitly disallows fallers from exiting, and what actually happens with the direct drop is that the game incorrectly does an object check on the lemming after turning it from falling to splattering.  Because the lemming is no longer marked falling, the game lets it exit even though it's supposed to be splattering.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2009, 02:25:22 pm »
Frost
5: bashers (100%)
Frost 5 also possible with miners only (100% of course since it's required).

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2009, 04:44:29 pm »
Maybe you should take Flurry 14 off the list until you can actually confirm it with a replay.  I remain skeptical that it can be done.  It's possible you made a mistake and accidentally used a second type of skill, or you neglected to check the % required (or misread it).

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2009, 06:23:07 pm »
You can't direct drop in Amiga?!  :o

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #75 on: August 03, 2009, 06:19:21 am »
Frost
5: bashers (100%)
Frost 5 also possible with miners only (100% of course since it's required).

...link to version of Lemmix that includes '94 levels plz?

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #76 on: August 03, 2009, 12:08:37 pm »
...link to version of Lemmix that includes '94 levels plz?

I just use Lemmix and edit the LemmixStyles.ini file to point to files from the actual games.  You can download the four Holiday Lemmings games from abandonia.com.  Link below (download contains all four):

http://www.abandonia.com/en/downloadgame/234

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #77 on: August 23, 2009, 01:26:46 am »
Bumping this for two reasons:

1) Tricky 6 and Taxing 10 should be marked as glitch solutions because they require direct drop,
2) We haven't finished yet! :D

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2009, 06:52:37 am »
Anyone? Fine then, I'll do it...


Blitz
3: diggers (100%)
6: bashers (100%)
7: builders (100% with sliding glitch)
14: miners (100%)

Offline Minim

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2009, 07:10:34 pm »
How does Fun 30 work with bombers? I can't seem to do that. Is there a lemmix replay or is that too annoying?
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Offline Pooty

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SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline LemSteven

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2009, 09:19:43 pm »
We're missing a pretty obvious one here:  Wicked 6 can be done with miners.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #82 on: September 24, 2009, 09:22:13 pm »
Yippee! I've got another one!

Flurry 13 with Builders (100%). Don't need a replay for this. Here is the solution:

Quote
Up the rate to 99 at the start. Let the last lemming build to the wall without turning round. Let him build over the other gap.
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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #83 on: September 24, 2009, 09:56:26 pm »
Hey, that reminds me: I did Flurry 9 with bashers a while ago, and forgot to post it.  :D

Offline ccexplore

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2011, 05:24:43 am »
Thanks to alfonz1986's method, I'm finally able to solve Wicked 9 using only builders.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #85 on: October 16, 2011, 10:14:40 pm »
Found a few more one-type solutions for Flurry:

2: Miners (100%), 'undermine' to stop miners
5: Builders (used direct drop, but this may be avoidable), a nuke solution much like Tame 17
11: Miners (100%), undermining again
12: Bashers (100%), just stack bashers and you'll get through to the right exit without losing any.

Replay attached for 5, the others are easy.

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2011, 11:33:07 am »
Fun 10 with diggers can be done with 100% saved, and this level can also be done with miners (not with 100% though - replay attached).

miners improved to 100%

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2020, 03:43:54 am »
Did know will i post this right topic or not. Moderators could moved this other topic if i posted this wrong place.

Mayhem 18 Then there were four... could be done 100% saved using builders only. Just make one challenge solution. I did use all 30 builders my video and skip use all others skills.

I never are see anyone make that before.
here is Snes video. Its probably can done few less builder. (1-2 less)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edHOvG9cey0&ab_channel=metroidmaster88
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 04:02:05 am by MASTER-88 »
Video games player.
See my youtube: Several games videos includes lemmix custom levels
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88?feature=mhum

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Re: How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill?
« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2020, 07:07:01 am »
Mayhem 18 Then there were four... could be done 100% saved using builders only...
here is Snes video. Its probably can done few less builder.

Great solution, well played! This inspired me to try it in fewer Builders. Of course, it's much easier to do this in NeoLemmix than on the SNES! Here it is in 25 :lemcat: