Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Very Easy - Hard] [GRAPHICS UPDATE]  (Read 3137 times)

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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2020, 09:28:13 am »
And then Pandemonium 5, we have a hidden exit along with an unjustified ultra-high lemmina count, contrary to the claim there was no more of that kind of stuff after the 2nd rank.

This is where I stop until the update is out.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2020, 10:46:47 am »
And then Pandemonium 5, we have a hidden exit along with an unjustified ultra-high lemmina count

The high lemmina count is justified in Pandemonium 5:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll un-hide the exit for V1.01 though.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2020, 07:50:26 pm »
Quote
it prevents digging straight down to the exit

If I make the first lemmina immediately dig, splatting starts to occur at around the 80th lemmina. So you've justified 80ish - even 100, perhaps. Now what's the reason for the next 200? (In many cases I'd also say "lower, locked RR, with a lower lemming count again", but I do see the value of RR99 in this case.)

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2020, 11:29:23 pm »
you've justified 80ish - even 100, perhaps. Now what's the reason for the next 200?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you honestly think that's not a good enough reason, I'll consider reducing it to 100 lems instead.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2020, 07:02:35 pm »
Well, this solution suggests your intent with the large lemmina quantity is easily bypassed.

An important thing to consider here is - if you do stuff like this often, even if you might have one level with a legitimate reason, that "one level" will be judged quickly because of all the others that didn't need the unfair / tedious elements. Doubly so when backroutes destroy the reason you thought the level needed it. On the other hand, if the issues with every other level in the pack weren't there and it was only this one - I'd still be calling out the hidden exit, but the 300 lemminas probably wouldn't register as a big deal, and if I didn't see an obvious reason for it, I'd assume I might have backrouted the level in a way that destroys it, rather than just assuming it's unnecessary and "for the sake of it". (This is NOT saying "it's fine as long as you don't do it often", just "it's less likely to be judged as harshly when it's one level rather than a regular occurance, and you'd get more benefit of the doubt that there's a legit reason but a backroute is bypassing it rather than no legit reason". Just as a full disclosure thing - I had solved this level, with this solution, before I posted my comment about "that's where I stop".)

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2020, 11:13:12 pm »
Thanks for the feedback Namida. I'm thinking... OK, if there is a possible solution which renders the high lemmina count irrelevant (and I know of at least 3, possibly 4, and now 5 with your solution!) then yes - maybe it's not really necessary.

I have already revealed the exit's door, which should keep all other known solutions intact, but I will also lower the count to 100 lemminas.

If you manage to get the rest of Pandemonium done in the next couple of days, I'll take into account any further feedback you may have. I've done my best to think about what might possibly be an issue in the rest of the rank, so here are some heads ups (some of this is stuff I've already changed for V1.01):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So that's it. If you're happy to have a look at it that'd be great, but if not don't worry coz I'm pretty much ready to release V1.01 anyways.

Many thanks again for taking the time to play and review Lemminas in its current state, your feedback has already gone a long way to making the next version a massive improvement.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2020, 11:59:58 pm »
Quote
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2020, 08:08:56 am »
Response to Namida's comments (click to show/hide)

As always, thanks for your response. It's an interesting dialogue and I'm grateful for the opportunity to unpack my ideas properly.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemminas (64 Levels) [Difficulty: Very Easy - Hard]
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2020, 06:43:16 pm »
Quote
I'd be interested to know your response to this, though. The idea of "exploration" levels is something I'd like to develop further, hence toying with the idea of a pack where every level has infinite skills and encourages player-led navigation. To some extent, hidden objects facilitate and enhance this idea, giving the player something to find within the level. Is there no way to do this fairly and enjoyably?

My suggestion would be a standalone pack, or at least a seperate rank (but honestly I'd lean more towards an entirely seperate pack), that's very clear about the nature of its content. While the pack would still qualify as all of the above; it would be very open about this, and players wouldn't have to worry about which levels are fair vs which ones are not - they can play the whole fair pack, and ignore the whole unfair one (or vice versa).

Offline WillLem

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Version 1.01 is now ready! See OP for download :party:

A big thank-you to Namida, Proxima, Armani, IchoTolot and DireKrow for the detailed feedback which has led to V1.01 being a hugely improved version of Lemminas. :thumbsup:

Here's what's changed:

Lemminas V1.01 Changelog (click to show/hide)

Quite a lot of work has gone into this update - almost as much as getting the pack together in the first place! (well, maybe not ;P)

I'd say it's well worth downloading this new version even if you have the old one. I've zipped the folders into a single folder via the method Namida suggested, so it should be extractable directly to the NeoLemmix base folder.

Please note that the only folders that are the same in this version are the music and sound: all levels, replays and the style pack contain numerous updates. If you already have it, I would strongly suggest deleting the older version and simply replacing it with the new folder in its entirety to avoid any potential issues.

N.B. Any future updates to this pack will likely be in the form of single levels or graphic pieces, so there will not be any need to re-download the music and sound again after this - apologies to those who've had to download it twice, but I feel this is currently the best way to ensure that everyone who downloads the pack from now on has everything they need.

Finally, I encourage you to enjoy playing this pack in NeoLemmix 12.8.2 with its Hi-Res mode enabled in order to enjoy the lush visuals as intended (if you turn off the HQ minimap, you shouldn't get any lag issues, even on the larger levels).

I look forward to your replays and feedback on this version of the pack, and I hope you'll agree it's a vast improvement.

Thank you for saving the Lemminas!

Offline mantha16

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I've updated to the new version but so many of the levels won't load even allowing for updates online what am I doing wrong.

Offline WillLem

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I've updated to the new version but so many of the levels won't load even allowing for updates online what am I doing wrong.

Can you screenshot the error that you're getting, and I'll look into it.

Also, just for starters, make sure you're using NeoLemmix 12.8.2 (the latest stable version) and that your copy of styles>willlem_lemminas>terrain contains the bar_red_large graphic (the last graphic to be added to the style).

N.B. Since I only sent the new style folder over to Nessy last night, it's likely that it hasn't yet been uploaded to the online styles manager. My advice would be to manually copy the entire updated willlem_lemminas folder into NeoLemmix>styles if you haven't already done so.

Offline DireKrow

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Can confirm that the style seems to be missing pieces. Magical 8 for instance seems to be missing something on the left side:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And Magical 13 near the exit:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm using the most up to date version downloaded through the NL downloader. It does seem to be missing at least the piece you mentioned:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT:

Quote
N.B. Since I only sent the new style folder over to Nessy last night, it's likely that it hasn't yet been uploaded to the online styles manager.

Aha, that would explain it.
My NeoLemmix Levels:
The Krow Files (File A v1.2 released 21-Feb-2020)

Offline WillLem

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Ah, OK, that's almost certainly the issue: the version available through the online styles manager hasn't yet been updated.

Anyone who's downloaded V1.01 so far will need to manually copy the willlem_lemminas style folder contained in the download bundle to NeoLemmix>styles. Simply extracting the entire Lemminas V1.01.zip to the NeoLemmix base folder should also achieve this.

EDIT: I have now downloaded the Lemminas V1.01 zip folder myself and extracted it to a fresh install of NeoLemmix 12.8.2 - I can confirm that it works fully.

I have also uploaded the V1.01 zip folder again - it now contains new skill panel graphics as well.

Apologies for the inconvenience there, hopefully the online style will get updated soon.

Offline mantha16

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I did copy the files manually I'm not sure if I have the most up to date player so I'll try updating that see if it helps. Thanks

Btw as I'm a girly I love the girl lem lens ( that's what my hubby calls it when he catches me playing).