Author Topic: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.4.2024.  (Read 55407 times)

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Offline MASTER-88

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Lemmings max points. Max-% saved with minimal skills used .European SNES Version used. I´ll updated this when i going redo. Also videos and playlist will be updates

UPDATE 23.4.2024
EDTI:
Sunsoft Special 3 TAS only 10025 points by Paiy 19 skills https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzHsXcqjWUY

Sunsoft Special 3 TAS only 10022 points bt Paiy 21 skills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNww82rzFeI

UPDATE 23.4.2024
Mayhem 20 No added colours or Lemmings 5 skills. Founded by paiy. Confirmed work on console too.

UPDATE 10.9.2023
SUNSOFT SPECIAL 2 13 Skills TAS Maded by Paiy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I8MsKu7lGs

UPODATE 23.8.2023
TAS find Save Me 2 lost is now possible on SNES system. How ever its might be possible TAS only. TAS video by Mochi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op_gC4Sg-Nk&ab_channel=Paiy

UPDATE 12.8.2023
SUNSOFT SPECIAL 1 Completed with 4 skills used. No climbers. Thank Paly to show me his TAS video. Added it youtube playlist. Not are post Archive yet.

UPDATE 25.11.2020
Mayhem 29 Save me is improvement one less skill. 22 skills is new record and that 9703 points. Its updated youtube playlist. Not in archive yet.

UPDATE 26.2.2020
Mayhem 20 & 26 improvement is update archive org and youtube playlist.

UPDATE 19.2.2020.
Sunsoft special list update. Level 4 is 2 points (2 skills) improvement over previous. Youtube & archive link is both update also skill list.

UPDATE 15.2.2020
Sunsoft special list are update. Thanks awesome Sunsoft special 3 route. I got accidentally find it right before i  was going sleep. Just pick up one "stupid" idea and its seems work.:) This game started are pretty much done rightnow. Who know? New ideas always will born.  We are make awesome progress.

UPDATE 13.2.2020
Archive link is update and sunsoft special & mayhem. Contains 100% Sunsoft special 2 solution. Some Archive links will be progress yet, but they are coming. Youtube & skill list is updated

UPDATE 12.2.2020.
Youtube playlists is updated. Contains mayhem difficulty (mayhem 19 96%/ 21 skills added) Sunsoft special 2 99% & 18 skills added.  Also skill list is update

UPDATE 7.2.2020.
New mayhem playlist is up in archive & youtube included mayhem 3 5 skills solution. Skills list also updated.

UPDATE 1.2.2020.
New Taxing difficulty playlist update. Contains level 4 2 points improvement records. Skill list and etc.. updates.



Fun
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level
Fun
1: 1
2: 10
3: 3 (94%) 47/50
4: 11
5: 3
6: 2 (96%) 48/50
7: 2
8: 3
9: 2
10: 3
11: 5
12: 5
13: 3
14: 5
15: 9
16: 9
17: 4
18: 5 (92%) 65/70
19: 6
20: 11
21: 3
22: 7
23: 5
24: 3
25: 4
26: 5
27: 6
28: 10
29: 13
30: 2

Tricky
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level
Tricky
1: 4
2: 3
3: 8
4: 9
5: 9
6: 8
7: 12
8: 15
9: 9
10: 14
11: 9
12: 9
13: 12
14: 12
15: 3 (70%) 7/10
16: 6 (92%) 46/50
17: 2 (96%) 48/50
18: 3 (90%) 9/10
19: 5
20: 7
21: 14
22: 10
23: 24 (99%) 99/100
24: 7
25: 13
26: 2
27: 10
28: 4
29: 5
30: 8

Taxing
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level
Taxing
1: 10
2: 7
3: 9
4: 14
5: 12
6: 4
7: 10 (99%) (99/100)
8: 9
9: 3
10: 8
11: 12
12: 10
13: 9
14: 20
15: 11
16: 19
17: 7
18: 12
19: 5 (92%) 65/70
20: 7
21: 7
22: 6
23: 15
24: 6
25: 8
26: 12
27: 12 (97%) (97/100
28: 16 (90%) (90/100
29: 8
30: 3

Mayhem
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level Mayhem
1: 27
2: 19
3: 5
4: 5
5: 14 (95%) (76/80
6: 10
7: 13
8: 9
9: 13
10: 30 (97%) (73/75
11: 3
12: 15
13: 6
14: 17
15: 14
16: 4
17: 11
18: 18
19: 21 (96%) (48/50
20: 5
21: 56
22: 14
23: 16
24: 3
25: 12
26: 16 (95%) (95/100
27: 4
28: 9
29: 22 (97%) (97/100) (98% is managed & 23 skills is confirmed possible TAS Video by Mochi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op_gC4Sg-Nk&ab_channel=Paiy
30: 24

Sunsoft
Quote
Lemmings skills per each level
Sunsoft
1: 4 (25%) (1/4
2: 29 (13 Skills TAS maded Paiy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I8MsKu7lGs
3: 32 (19 skills TAS maded Paiy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzHsXcqjWUY
4: 8
5: 8


Levels is added in playlist and every levels is orders. Just max-% saved and minimal possible items used. All is recorded my real SNES system and European version
Fun 1-30 levels (3rd update)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KlDGaevc2A&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch
https://archive.org/details/fundifficultymaxpointsnewv3

Tricky 1-30 levels (8th update)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjloIWT6wd0&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj1mqlmDSnHjmjdQAdh3ed-i
https://archive.org/details/trickydifficultyhighpointsnewv8

Taxing 1-30 levels (8th update)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30VFRCX1FgI&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj136snR0XiQSGv4jxL4135B
https://archive.org/details/taxingdifficultyhighpointsnewv8

Mayhem 1-30 levels (15th update)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARmeJ5f1hy8&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj3qTY_z-MWqhoM0AryLTdd1
https://archive.org/details/mayhemdifficultyhighpointsnewv15


Sunsoft 1-5 levels (8th update) (Level is 2 no max pointed) Confirmed 26 skills solution emulator, but 29 skills on console is good enought.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2vX0M2-GojXYF8k1hwWOS0
https://archive.org/details/sunsoftspecialdifficultyhighpointsnewv7

I want thanks Ichotolot his tips in mayhem 30. I already got 10059 points but when he told me new build strat i got one more point. I want thank Zimer. He max pointed levels years 2010-2017 and this keep my motivations up. I want also thanks Richard Diaz aka lemmingsmaster. He are find many most awesome strategys. He is only who are got 10001 points in Sunsoft special 2 without tool assist.

How ever. There is little chances i´ll find some better points in future if new strats can be found.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 08:23:18 PM by MASTER-88 »
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My Huge Lemmings Projects

Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
Custom +1 (120 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4539.0

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2019, 03:15:50 PM »
Comparing these results with our own results from the DOS version:

Fun 9: You used 2 skills, but this doesn't work on DOS.
Fun 11: You used 5 skills, our record is 3. This presumably relies on steel glitches. It's worth checking whether this works on SNES, because while glitches don't necessarily carry over, steel is pretty flimsy on most versions of the original game :P
Fun 13: I believe that on some versions, e.g. Genesis, this can be done with only 2 diggers. Not possible on SNES?
Fun 15: Sorry, you overlooked a better solution here. 9 skills is glitch-free and should definitely work on SNES.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fun 17: Our record is 4 skills (steel glitches again, although you also used steel glitches in your solution).
Fun 23: Our record is 5 skills. From ccexplore's post, it sounds like this is bunching up the crowd so a single lemming can build over the gap, avoiding the need for the blocker.
Fun 27: Our record is 5 skills. I don't know the details of this solution, but I'll see if I can find it and get back to you 8-)
Fun 28: Our record is 10 skills. This is glitch-free and should definitely work on SNES.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fun 29: Our record is 12 skills. I don't know the details of this solution.

Could someone move this to Challenges?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 03:35:28 PM by Proxima »

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2019, 06:13:08 PM »
Okay thats interesting.

Fun 13 Im tested this too, but no personally idea how. 3 lemmings working every we all wall down levels on SNES, but im not are make its two
Fun 15 seems very working. Have to try this.
Fun 17. Im test many things, but 4 items not seems work on SNES. I trying its many times. 5 items seems also best possible taxing 6.
Fun 23. Also tested, but can,t avoid fall lemmings.
Fun 27 I really wonder if this can work, even i can very close make it. Its look you still need this extra floater.
Fun 28 Interesting. Not 100% understand what you mean.
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Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
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Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2019, 06:15:23 PM »
Quote
Could someone move this to Challenges?

Done.
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2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2019, 09:09:28 PM »
Some news
Fun 15 working. I am really embarrassed when i not figured out this already. This was so easy. I seems just retared, because that was way too simple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuCQADQ-3Gw

About We all fall down levels. I did some emulator research. Yeah 2 digger working on genesis version very well, but i check out this my SNES version and i also did practice my emulator, but even step my step, its doensn´t work. You will need 3 diggers used Snes. But here is my genesis version video where i did it with two diggers. This radar is just way too different
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQHT78OJc3M

About Fun 28. I not really understand, but as far as i can tell this level doesn´t work like Proxima said on SNES.  Im not are test it genesis yet. But as far as i can tell at least snes version there is no way make that lock.
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My Huge Lemmings Projects

Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
Custom +1 (120 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4539.0

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2019, 10:41:46 PM »
Okay, here's a full description of the Fun 28 10-skill solution:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2019, 11:37:32 PM »
Release the crowd by digging all the way down one of the poles of their enclosure

@Thats it just this trouble. You can,t dig that pole without digger got cancel or all lemmings will pass out and die. Seriously i am trying that a lot before this.

Im pretty sure its version difference. I am test out every pixels but its doesn´t work. I might try this emulator and super slowmotion, but i am 99,9% sure this doesn´t work. There is not pixels make this.

I 100% know what you mean, but its look its not work on SNES version.
Video games player.
See my youtube: Several games videos includes lemmings
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88?feature=mhum

My Huge Lemmings Projects

Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
Custom +1 (120 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4539.0

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2019, 01:38:08 AM »
Quote
@Thats it just this trouble. You can,t dig that pole without digger got cancel or all lemmings will pass out and die. Seriously i am trying that a lot before this.

It's pixel-precise. One pixel too early and the digger won't go the whole way; one pixel too late and the digger will let the crowd out. If you do it right, there'll be exactly 1 pixel thick of the pole remaining.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2019, 01:57:56 AM »
I remember when you first posted about this on the forums several years ago when it was still work in progress, I looked at the results you had back then and was mostly unimpressed.  Coupled with SNES Lemmings not being played much around here, having very few unique levels (compared to Genesis Lemmings for example), and me not particularly liking to play ports of Lemmings that don't support mouse, I did not feel motivated to say much about it.  I figured given time if you are truly serious about it, you would eventually improve some of your results on your own, and if you are resourceful I would also expect you to cross-check with similar results we already reported here for DOS Lemmings.

Several years has passed.  I guess some results have improved, but it looks like you haven't really cross-check with the DOS Lemmings results yet, and at the same time you seem to think you're close to maxing all levels.  I think it's time you really compare with the DOS Lemmings results.  There are definitely some differences that would make some particular results in DOS Lemmings not achievable and vice versa, but there's bound to be at least a few levels where a better result that was reported on DOS Lemmings would carry over to SNES.  Even some of the glitches have been confirmed to work on SNES.

Regarding what Proxima mentioned about Fun, I had a chance to test some stuff out earlier today, but didn't have time to write this until now:

Fun 9: You used 2 skills, but this doesn't work on DOS.

This is expected.  Amiga/SNES Lemmings' basher extends one pixel further forward, which is just enough to allow you to get through the column with 2 bashers.

Fun 11: You used 5 skills, our record is 3. This presumably relies on steel glitches. It's worth checking whether this works on SNES, because while glitches don't necessarily carry over, steel is pretty flimsy on most versions of the original game :P

While the steel glitch itself actually works on SNES, the problem is that the DOS solution also relies on that version's bugged placement of one-way-wall trigger areas, which in DOS leads to a gap of no one-way-wall just above the steel floor (even though visually you see no gap), which is what lets you bash through the wrong way after digging 4 pixels down into the steel.  This doesn't work in SNES.

There is also a 4 skill solution that is glitch-free, but surprisingly that also doesn't work in SNES, due to miner wackiness in SNES.  (If you play the game it'd be very obvious, the floor of the mining tunnel doesn't look quite like the normal "2 pixels forward, 1 pixel down" steps you get in other ports.)  Apparently it's not easy to mine down a build bridge with SNES's miner.

So unfortunately you might really need 5 skills for this on SNES.

Fun 13: I believe that on some versions, e.g. Genesis, this can be done with only 2 diggers. Not possible on SNES?

I tested this back when we talked about the use of "digger free digger" for this level on various ports.  I'll link back to the post when I find it, but basically the problem is that it appears SNES doesn't let you increase the release rate fast enough to get the first 2 lemmings close enough together to do the trick.  So you have to start the trick with the 2nd and 3rd lemmings instead, and hence need an extra digger to deal with the 1st lemming.  On the Genesis it barely works and requires you to start increasing the release rate as soon as the game lets you (which is like during start of the fade-in before the level is even fully visible).

Fun 17: Our record is 4 skills (steel glitches again, although you also used steel glitches in your solution).

I distinctly remember having tested this on SNES and it should work.  When I have time I'll record it in Bizhawk emulator as confirmation.

Fun 23: Our record is 5 skills. From ccexplore's post, it sounds like this is bunching up the crowd so a single lemming can build over the gap, avoiding the need for the blocker.

Yes.  Whether this solution works or not might hinge on whether certain changes in release rate is achievable on SNES, because the solution does rely on manipulating the release rate a little to bunch up the crowd almost perfectly into near-single position.  That said, it could still work though even if a few lemmings are slightly off-position from the perfectly-compressed crowd, since the time window of danger (during the building over the gap) is relatively short compared to all that walking along the basher tunnel.  You'll just have to test and see.  I've included some key details in spoiler below.  When I have time I'll try to confirm this solution on Bizhawk emulator.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fun 27: Our record is 5 skills. I don't know the details of this solution, but I'll see if I can find it and get back to you 8-)

It was my solution and I had the replay.  Will make sure to restore it on the original challenge thread if it's missing there. [edit: done]  It's not a conventional solution and uses steel glitches.  The steel glitch might still work but the killer is difference in digging mechanics.  Like in Fun 28, SNES doesn't let you continue dig down with so few pixels.  From limited testing, I think you will need to shift the entire solution at least 2 pixels further left for the digger to be able to dig all the way down the right side of the steel block, but unfortunately this cause the build bridge to just miss the left edge of the exit platform.

Barring a completely different 5-skill solution to be discovered, 6 might indeed be the best you can do on SNES.

Fun 28: Our record is 10 skills. This is glitch-free and should definitely work on SNES.

Like MASTER-88 pointed out, SNES doesn't let you dig down the pole without being a bit closer to it, which ruins that solution.  However, from limited testing I think there is a totally different way to handle the start that might enable a 10-skill solution.  Will have to test more later tonight.  Details below:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fun 29: Our record is 12 skills. I don't know the details of this solution.

This is also mine and I'll fix the post to re-attach any missing replays [edit: nothing to fix].  It is a glitch-free solution but because it uses miners, I can't rule out being surprised unpleasantly by SNES, though in this case it seems very unlikely that the miner differences in SNES would actually affect the solution.  So while it needs to be tested, I think it will work out.  In the spoilers below I've listed out all the skills and roughly where they are used.

[edit: finally tested on SNES.  So of course the SNES miner ruins things again. >:( Also, the part that uses the basher staircase trick apparently also fails due to the SNES basher taking out more pixels than DOS. :(]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 09:17:44 AM by ccexplore »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2019, 01:09:05 PM »
Fun 17: Our record is 4 skills (steel glitches again, although you also used steel glitches in your solution).

I distinctly remember having tested this on SNES and it should work.  When I have time I'll record it in Bizhawk emulator as confirmation.

Done and confirmed for SNES.  See attached bk2 movie for Bizhawk emulator, plus some attached screenshots.  Note: I only found the USA version of ROM so the emulator movie is based on that, not the European nor Japanese versions for example.  I had Bizhawk uses BSNES core for emulation as it's said to be more accurate.

A good number of skill assignments likely need to be quite pixel-precise, you can refer to the screenshots to see where exactly you should do some of the skill assignments.  Plus at the beginning, you need to assign a basher to a walker lemming standing very close to a digger.  Since I don't think SNES has priority-inverted selection, you will instead have to position the cursor precisely to ensure the basher assignment goes to the walker and not the digger.

Fun 28: Our record is 10 skills. This is glitch-free and should definitely work on SNES.

Like MASTER-88 pointed out, SNES doesn't let you dig down the pole without being a bit closer to it, which ruins that solution.  However, from limited testing I think there is a totally different way to handle the start that might enable a 10-skill solution.

I've confirmed what I proposed above as possible on SNES, see attached bk2 movie for Bizhawk emulator and USA ROM, plus some attached screenshots.  In the movie I started increasing the release rate after 4th lemming has come out, letting it go to 99.  That is sufficient to get one lemming successfully out to start building to the exit.  It's quite possible there are other release rate adjustments that will also work and are easier to execute.  You may also want to consider dropping release rate back down to 80 soon afterwards, as 80 works very well to keep the lemmings bunched up together on the starting area.

Note that the attached only deal with up to the part where you successfully isolate out a lemming.  The rest of the solution you've already seen and executed.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 01:14:37 PM by ccexplore »

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2019, 06:49:17 PM »
Thanks CCexplore your awesome planning and strategys

Fun 23 10155 points working very well. I did use CCexplore strategy here. I really see this perfect releaserate manipulation was only key make this level with 5 items. I personally probably never figured out this myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOM0p-qqz3A

Next i will moving fun 28 and fun 17. I think then fun mode is perfected.

EDIT:
Can,t open those screenshots file fun 17 and 28.

Okay screenshot problem fixed. My fault.:)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 06:59:38 PM by MASTER-88 »
Video games player.
See my youtube: Several games videos includes lemmings
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88?feature=mhum

My Huge Lemmings Projects

Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
Custom +1 (120 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4539.0

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2019, 07:17:46 PM »
For Fun 28, I've simplify the starting setup to below, to make things easier to execute.  Also attached Bizhawk movie.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2019, 08:08:42 PM »
Okay that fun 28 was pretty easy when i releaserate just after 4 lemmings.
Here is new records video
Fun 17 10156 & also Taxing 6 10008 working similar way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRRtt_W847Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMHf4iFqso

Fun 28 is managed here. You can alternate use 7 builders and avoid turning, but then you have bash right when you release all others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNd670w1-dM

Really much thanks ccexplore your tips. I really wonder i was miss that much things in fun. I think my all fun difficulty levels is max pointed now. Or is anyone got 5 skills strategy working fun 27. Its come close, but not enought. Im hearing on DOS version could be just use 5.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2019, 09:08:09 PM »
I don't know the 5 skill 100% solution (the best I can manage with 5 skills is lose-1, and it wouldn't work on SNES), so I don't know if it'd work on SNES or not. Here's a 6 skill solution, I'm not sure whether this would work in SNES either but you could give it a try.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 09:23:44 PM by namida »
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2019, 09:18:22 PM »
I don't know the 5 skill 100% solution, so I don't know if it'd work on SNES or not. Here's a 6 skill solution, I'm not sure whether this would work in SNES either but you could give it a try.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I am make 6 skills work bit different way my SNES. Also used taxing 22.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy4CHE2PXlk&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch&index=27
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2019, 09:23:14 PM »
About fun 29
I am tested that a lot, but i probably not understand every things

"Then use the basher staircase trick (bash, then build to stop the bashing mid-stroke) to get up to the piece of wood leading to the pyramid.  At this point you can proceed same as your current solution (bash through pyramid, then 3 builders to reach exit)."

Did you really can make this last staircase like this. I test it a lot my SNES emulator and i can make this pretty much correct but that requires climber to up staircase.

My personal best Snes solution is just 13 skills. Its use climber but not staircase clip. I personally cannot make that staircase clip done my SNES version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldfr9xGcFQ8&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch&index=29
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2019, 09:03:52 AM »
"Then use the basher staircase trick (bash, then build to stop the bashing mid-stroke) to get up to the piece of wood leading to the pyramid.  At this point you can proceed same as your current solution (bash through pyramid, then 3 builders to reach exit)."

Did you really can make this last staircase like this. I test it a lot my SNES emulator and i can make this pretty much correct but that requires climber to up staircase.

Ok, I finally had a chance to test it out.  You're right, apparently that part doesn't quite work on SNES because the basher stroke's reach is one pixel further forward compared to DOS.  Apparently that's enough to make a difference.  On DOS, you'd start bashing as soon as you got up on the right edge of the step, and then assign builder in the middle of the second bash stroke.  (Sorry I missed describing this important detail.)  The first bash stroke apparently leaves two stray ground pixels near ground level that, together with the single build brick, end up being walkable ground with no gaps.  But on SNES the bash strokes reach one pixel further forward, so those stray ground pixels are not there anymore and you end up with a gap that prevents you from walking up.  And since you already started bashing as far right as the step you're standing on lets you, unfortunately you can't simply bash earlier to achieve the equivalent result.

Attached are pictures showing the difference results you get.  On the DOS picture, notice those two pixels of brown at and touching the yellow build brick.  On SNES those pixels are also removed so there's now a gap preventing you from walking up.

Moreover, it looks like the beginning part with the miner also doesn't quite work either.  SNES miner on first mining stroke only leaves a dent one pixel deep into ground, rather than two like on DOS.  It looks like that's just not deep enough to allow you to stop one miner with another miner mining in opposite direction at end of mining funnel.  At least I tried a lot on SNES with no success so far.

So looks like the DOS 12-skill solution won't work, and I don't have any ideas on a different solution at this point.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2019, 09:28:35 AM »
Or is anyone got 5 skills strategy working fun 27. Its come close, but not enought. Im hearing on DOS version could be just use 5.

Just to clear it up for everyone, this is what the DOS solution looks like.  It doesn't work on SNES because SNES digger needs more pixels below him to continue digging, so he won't be able to dig down while hanging onto just one thin column of pixels from the steel block like in DOS, as seen in screenshot.  Testing shows I need to shift the digging 2 more pixels left, but at that point the steel detection actually kicks in, and that will prevent you from digging all the way down as well.

You'd need to find a totally different way from the DOS solution in order to get 5 skills for SNES.  I can't think of one at the moment.

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2019, 10:10:27 PM »
I think Fun mode is perfected on SNES version
How about Tricky difficulty levels.
My current records is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjloIWT6wd0&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj1mqlmDSnHjmjdQAdh3ed-i

Tricky 1 (4 skills) Thats max pointed. Cannot slow enought
Tricky 2 (3 skills) Max pointed we all fall down snes version (genesis could be with two)
Tricky 3 (8 skills) I think this is max. This use pixel perfect trick turn lemmings back (also used taxing 29)
Tricky 4 (9 skills) I think max pointed pretty cool strategy
Tricky 5 (10 skills) You will need all those builders at end. Also two items is required break last ball
Tricky 6 (8 skills) I cannot think this level could be better.
Tricky 7 (12 skills) Just linear level
Tricky 8 (17 skills) I find many potential way improve, but not seems work on Snes version. This same way is used taxing 23
Tricky 9 (9 skills) No idea can this improvement, i think this is perfect
Tricky 10 (14 skills) My best also used mayhem 15
Tricky 11 (11 skills) This level have some potential. Yesterday i find alternate way make 10179 points, but that seems i cannot go 10 skill soultion
Alternate 10179 solution is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLruLqEfvEk
Tricky 12 (10 skills) I can´t find better
Tricky 13 (13 skills) This level have some potential because there is metals. But my 13 skill solution is pretty awesome and its also used mayhem 25
Tricky 14 (12 skills) I never make two lock method so this level is linear and pretty much max pointed
Tricky 15 (3 bombs) perfect
Tricky 16 (4 bombs, miner and basher) jsut perfect
Tricky 17 (2 bombs) perfect
Tricky 18 (90% & 3 skills)
Tricky 19 (5 skills)
Tricky 20 (7 skills)
Tricky 21 (14 skills) very linear level and definitely max pointed
Tricky 22 (10 skills) I plan very good solution. Its hard imagine this could be redo. 5 builders is mandatory pass lake
Tricky 23 (97% 2 climber & 2 floater remain) I cannot got 98% my snes. Also 9706 points seems impossible. This seems pretty perfect playin
Tricky 24 (7 skills) Pretty good method break blockers
Tricky 25 (13 skills) 100% saved cascade and this seems perfect
Tricky 26 (2 basher) Just perfect
Tricky 27 (10 skills) I think its perfect
Tricky 28 (5 skills) You cannot build that lock with one, so its perfect
Tricky 29 (5 skills) linear and pretty sure perfected
Tricky 30 (8 skills) linear level and i think this is perfect
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2019, 02:28:54 AM »
Tricky 11 10180 points (10 skills solution)
I find nice way slowdown that 2nd lemmings enought without wasting item.:thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhnNxEueP0M
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2019, 01:38:25 PM »
I don't have time this week to go into details on all the levels.  I'll just start by showing the DOS Lemming's 15-builder solution for Tricky 8.  SNES and DOS's builders behave quite the same so it is very likely to work on SNES as well.

The 3rd lemming out the entrance is the one who builds the bridge at lower-right corner.  Although it looks useless, that build bridge helps slightly delay later lemmings coming out of entrance by forcing them to spend time falling down the bridge.  It turns out to be critical in getting a 15-builder solution to work (for the longest time I could only do 16).  Once lemmings are able to walk fully past the first gap, of the first three to do so, the first two will each build left-to-right as shown to seal up the gap fully (the first will turn around after laying down one brick; the second will be able to build multiple steps to fully seal up the gap).  The third will build to reach the next level of platform.

Notice that near the top you can simply build repeatedly to build "through" the exit platform, instead of the long way around getting up two levels of platforms.  What I did turns out to be more efficient as it just takes 5 builders.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2019, 05:07:12 PM »
Thats awesome stuff ccexplore. And i confirm its working on SNES version too.

I have to say that was really hard one and i have to make it again, because tricky 8 & taxing 23 is identically same level max points.

Here is video taxing 23 version. I counted 7 pixel perfect builder is required and much more very precise builders. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urptKBf0_ws
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2019, 08:29:34 AM »
"Then use the basher staircase trick (bash, then build to stop the bashing mid-stroke) to get up to the piece of wood leading to the pyramid.  At this point you can proceed same as your current solution (bash through pyramid, then 3 builders to reach exit)."

Did you really can make this last staircase like this. I test it a lot my SNES emulator and i can make this pretty much correct but that requires climber to up staircase.

Ok, I finally had a chance to test it out.  You're right, apparently that part doesn't quite work on SNES because the basher stroke's reach is one pixel further forward compared to DOS.  Apparently that's enough to make a difference.  On DOS, you'd start bashing as soon as you got up on the right edge of the step, and then assign builder in the middle of the second bash stroke.  (Sorry I missed describing this important detail.)  The first bash stroke apparently leaves two stray ground pixels near ground level that, together with the single build brick, end up being walkable ground with no gaps.  But on SNES the bash strokes reach one pixel further forward, so those stray ground pixels are not there anymore and you end up with a gap that prevents you from walking up.  And since you already started bashing as far right as the step you're standing on lets you, unfortunately you can't simply bash earlier to achieve the equivalent result.

Attached are pictures showing the difference results you get.  On the DOS picture, notice those two pixels of brown at and touching the yellow build brick.  On SNES those pixels are also removed so there's now a gap preventing you from walking up.

Moreover, it looks like the beginning part with the miner also doesn't quite work either.  SNES miner on first mining stroke only leaves a dent one pixel deep into ground, rather than two like on DOS.  It looks like that's just not deep enough to allow you to stop one miner with another miner mining in opposite direction at end of mining funnel.  At least I tried a lot on SNES with no success so far.

So looks like the DOS 12-skill solution won't work, and I don't have any ideas on a different solution at this point.

About staircaseclip. Its can done using 3 items on SNES. I did it correct using Miner, build & basher in that order. Im not sure can i did it with two item using miner and builders only. Have to test it emulator yet.

EDIT:
Tested better, but its look i can only tied my points, but not improve. One way is using miner, climber and miner or alternate miner builder & basher and skip climber.

My record video just simply use 3 builders and climber and its also easiest way and skip that trap gap. So if this can´t be solved 12 items solution cannot happen on SNES.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 09:33:13 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2019, 12:40:36 PM »
Some research which not seems work well i wanted
Taxing 4 is somewhere interesting level and its also includes a lot version differences about hitboxes with wall traps.
16 skills seems just best possible on SNES version.  Fact is you will need all those 4 builders with begin. Its very close make its possible use three builders, but its let only one single build gap and thats trap will kill you. So 4 is mandatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwaQ99mEG-4&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj136snR0XiQSGv4jxL4135B&index=4

Also tested some clips, but because you have to still cancel those using builders you will lost other skills as well. So this interesting look picture ate too much skills even you can build up. So this method is rejected.
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2019, 12:46:40 AM »
Mayhem 10 Pillar of Hercules improvement one more point 96% (3 lemmings lost) & 24 skills. This use much harder right side route. But i did several emulator test. You can,t build that last gap with 5 builders its let one gap aways and requires use 6 builder, so using easier route build left is not possible to improve my points anymore. So i have to use right goal

But using rightside goal you can make this building up one less skill used. But this route is also much more harder. But my lemmings skills is increased a lot, so thats not was huge trouble anymore.

I really think i am maxed everysingle levels expect sunsoft special 2. But like always new things could be found in future. Hope you guys help me max pointed everysingle levels.:)

Here is mayhem 10 9613 points solution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MO5hL9Tqfk
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2019, 02:06:07 AM »
I really think i am maxed everysingle levels expect sunsoft special 2. But like always new things could be found in future. Hope you guys help me max pointed everysingle levels.:)

Can you go compare your results with ours for DOS (here, and also here for max save % numbers), and then post here the exact list of all levels in Tricky, Taxing and Mayhem where we currently reported better results on DOS than yours?  This is the least you can do if you want help, it'd save us time from having to compile the list ourselves.

Although I don't have time to post any details until Saturday at the earliest, even looking at just Tricky, I believe the current DOS solutions for Tricky 5 and 12 can likely be adapted to SNES.  Tricky 5 will need an extra builder on SNES but that still totals to 9 skills, which is better than your current record's 10.  I also haven't ruled out Tricky 23 yet as I distinctly remember actually testing the DOS solution (or at least parts of it) first on SNES emulator because it has savestates (back when Lemmix didn't even exist yet so I'd have to play the level in DOSBox).  And we haven't looked closely at Taxing and Mayhem yet.

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2019, 05:57:29 AM »
I see this list on DOS. I personally never played DOS version. But i´ll check out those, but very hard compared all.

Mayhem 2 The Boiler room is improvement with one point. I simply use climber avoid use those builders. This make mayhem 2 also easier than previous solution. 9948 (17 skills)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbUxPBuGMo

Quote
Tricky 5 will need an extra builder on SNES but that still totals to 9 skills, which is better than your current record's 10.

Yeah 4 builders is mandatory at end. 2nd trouble is this last ball before ice lake. Its take two skills. I trying a lot break it with one. I can make very close using reverse digger, but its still not going break that net enought.

Quote
12 can likely be adapted to SNES.

Tricky 12 can be at least done less skills on genesis version. Here you need only one builder at starting. Snes will requires two ones. Im not know how about DOS version.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 07:38:00 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2019, 09:11:23 AM »
I see this list on DOS. I personally never played DOS version. But i´ll check out those, but very hard compared all.

Sure.  We're not asking you to play the DOS game.  If you prefer, you could instead provide us your list of results in the format of a flat list of skill counts used for each level, similar to this table at the top of our DOS topic:


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Rating |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Total | (Old) |
|-------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Fun    |  1 10  3 11  3  2  2  3  3  3  3  5  3  5  9  9  4  5  6 11  3  7  5  3  4  5  5 10 12  2   157 |  120  |
|Tricky |  4  5  8  9  8  8 12 15  9 14 10  9 13 12  3  6  2  3  5  7  9 10 24  7 13  3 10  4  5  8   255 |  184  |
|Taxing |  9  8  9 14 12  4  8  9  3  8 12 10 10 22 11 19  9 12  5  9  7  5 15  6  7 12 12 16  8  7       |  242  |
|Mayhem | 28 18  4  4 18  9 14  9 13 31  9  5  6 18 14  2 12 20 13  7 28 16 18  3 16 17  3  7 21 38       |  320  |
|-------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

You don't even need to format it neatly like we did above, I literally just need a line of 30 numbers separated by spaces, one line for each rating.  I can then easily use Excel and so forth to make it easy to compare your numbers with ours above.  I just need your numbers for SNES.

Regarding the few levels you mentioned:

Mayhem 2 on DOS is 100%-able using the sliding glitch (aka "the wall zip trick").  The glitch itself definitely works on SNES, but exploiting it effectively requires bunching up the lemmings almost perfectly, which tends to require very precise release rate manipulations that might prove impossible on SNES since SNES doesn't let you change the release rate while paused.  More testing will be needed to see whether the DOS 100% solution is adaptable to SNES.

The current best solution on DOS for Tricky 5 doesn't use any skills to hold back the crowd.  It takes advantage of there being a lot of space in the level area to fit the entire stream of walking lemmings without them looping back onto itself, assuming you bump the release rate to 99 as quickly as you can as soon as the level starts.  You then perform most of the skills using lemmings near the back of the stream, letting the rest take their sweet time walking before they can catch up to your worker lemming again.  You'd mine down the 1st ball, bash through the 2nd and 3rd, then lay a single build brick follow by bashing to get through the 4th.  The DOS version lacks water so you can use just 2 builders to reach the island before the exit; on SNES you'd need 3, but it's really just one extra build brick plus 2 builders.  There are some additional details I've omitted here which I'll provide later when I have time.  Maybe you can start trying to work it out on your own based on what I've said so far.  SNES does have 100 lemmings rather than DOS's 80 which might impact this solution, as does the problem of likely not able to bump release rate directly from 20 to 99 before first lemming comes out.

The current best solution on DOS for Tricky 12 is very much like Fun 23 conceptually.  You bunch up the crowd near perfectly via adjusting release rate to a particular number (don't remember which) that works with the width of the starting area, then do the rest of the level without attempting to hold back the crowd with any additional skills.  You do need 2 builders on DOS to make a safe landing starting on the floor of the pit.  The DOS solution uses just 3 floaters.

Surprised that Genesis lets you make safe landing with just one builder, I guess either the initial position of the lemming from the entrance is lower, or the way they calculate fall distance starting from the entrance is slightly different resulting in a higher survivable fall there.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2019, 09:26:58 AM »
Quote
Surprised that Genesis lets you make safe landing with just one builder, I guess either the initial position of the lemming from the entrance is lower, or the way they calculate fall distance starting from the entrance is slightly different resulting in a higher survivable fall there.

IIRC, you can do it with one builder on DOS, if you bash into the wall at the right first (then start building from inside the basher tunnel). Of course, that doesn't play nicely with the "bunch up the lemmings" idea...
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2019, 10:17:01 AM »
Yes, I remember that and this is how you would avoid having to use all 50 floaters in the repeat of the level.  But like you said, that technique also makes it impossible to compress the lemmings to allow for a crowd-control-free solution, and I'm pretty sure you still need at least 3 floaters as well.

[edit: on further thought, maybe it's worth testing and see whether even without crowd compression, it might be possible to build over the gap without having any lemmings overtake the builder.  Kind of doubt it though.  Also definitely makes the next part much less likely, if not outright impossible, to work out as well.]

I'm fairly sure MASTER-88 is only talking about building from the floor of the pit, even for Genesis.  That's why I actually included the words "starting on the floor of the pit" in my sentence about needing 2 builders, I did remember the technique used for the repeat.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 10:23:37 AM by ccexplore »

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2019, 01:57:28 PM »
Quote
If you prefer, you could instead provide us your list of results in the format of a flat list of skill counts used for each level, similar to this table at the top of our DOS topic:

Thats might good idea. Im not going make similar (i really hate exel), but i´ll make another one which show used skills better. I might have time make it later today.

Quote
The current best solution on DOS for Tricky 5 doesn't use any skills to hold back the crowd.  It takes advantage of there being a lot of space in the level area to fit the entire stream of walking lemmings without them looping back onto itself, assuming you bump the release rate to 99 as quickly as you can as soon as the level starts.  You then perform most of the skills using lemmings near the back of the stream

Its actually working on SNES. Used that releaserate method taxing level 8. (10 skill solution) On tricky version there is just easier lock lemmings using one digger. However you will need break this rope and its easier use just simply digger. Taxing level 8 you not have diggers, so this strategy goes very different.
Tricky 5 (10 skills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8wyL9vgp70&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj1mqlmDSnHjmjdQAdh3ed-i&index=5
Taxing 8 (10 skills( using 99 releaserate method)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKKXJZN_Qvs&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj136snR0XiQSGv4jxL4135B&index=8

Quote
The current best solution on DOS for Tricky 12 is very much like Fun 23 conceptually.  You bunch up the crowd near perfectly via adjusting release rate to a particular number (don't remember which) that works with the width of the starting area, then do the rest of the level without attempting to hold back the crowd with any additional skills.  You do need 2 builders on DOS to make a safe landing starting on the floor of the pit.  The DOS solution uses just 3 floaters.

This sounds interesting and im definitely not are test out this before. I am personally really worse planning releaserate manipulation. However im not sure can this work, its definitely worth trying it here.



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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2019, 02:42:25 PM »
Quote
If you prefer, you could instead provide us your list of results in the format of a flat list of skill counts used for each level, similar to this table at the top of our DOS topic:

Watch my first post. I Using wordpad, but this is a lot easier to check out now.;)

I´ll update this list when i go improve my records.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2019, 09:26:26 PM »
Tricky 5. This last ball could be bashed only one basher. You need bash third ball right pixel and then fourth ball could be done with one only.

About Tricky 12 methods. I cannot find correct releaserate. Just releaserate 5 seems best, but its not even close enought.

But tricky 5 will be possible improve.:) Taxing 8 is really different task, because this level is really precise. So i not sure could this method bash last ball one are fast enought. But its for sure will take more planning than tricky 5.

EDIT:
Tricky 5 10151 (9 skills)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0ZCxYhBMp4

Next i might back work on taxing version with this level.

EDIT 2:
Taxing 8 10041 (9 skills) This is much more harder than tricky 5 because you can,t lock your lemmings. This also includes double basher trick which requires two pixel perfect bashers like tricky 5. I really hate this level, but finally done it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9SFPDzN7rY
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 10:58:52 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2019, 01:18:38 AM »
Tricky 5. This last ball could be bashed only one basher. You need bash third ball right pixel and then fourth ball could be done with one only.

Good find! :thumbsup: This also works on DOS, so the record there is now improved to 7 skills using your discovery.

Will have to test and see whether the timing works out for SNES to do 8 skills (ie. no extra skills used for crowd control).  Sadly this new way of getting through the final ball does shorten the amount of walking for the crowd, so it is much more likely for the crowd to overtake the builder (and fail the solution) if we attempt to do no crowd control, only testing can show if it ends up success or failure for SNES.

About Tricky 12 methods. I cannot find correct releaserate. Just releaserate 5 seems best, but its not even close enought.

I should've mentioned this before, there is actually a formula that translates a release rate number into the corresponding spacing between consecutive lemmings:

spacing in pixels/steps = floor((99 - release rate) / 2) + 4

floor(x) means always round down to nearest integer.  So for example floor(1 / 2) = floor(0.5) = 0, floor (2 / 2) = floor(1) = 1, floor (3 / 3) = floor(1.5) = 1, etc.

So at release rate of 99 and 98, the next lemming out is 4 steps behind the current lemming.  A release rate of 1 for example comes out to 53 steps.  The same formula works on both DOS and SNES Lemmings (as well as Amiga, Genesis, etc., basically many versions that are closely based on DOS/Amiga physics).

The width of the pit in Tricky 12 is 16 pixels.  But the lemming actually moves into the wall itself at the moment it turns around, so one single iteration of back and forth in the pit takes 17 * 2 = 34 steps.  Solving for the formula above, to get 34, the corresponding release rate needs to be 39 or 38.  5 is way too low by comparison.

In order to minimize the amount of floaters used, you actually need to keep the release rate at 1 until the landing is safe, then raise it.  I don't know if SNES lets you raise release rate all the way from 1 to 38 without having the next lemming comes out before that finishes.  On the other hand, even a few lemmings out of the perfect position might still be okay, only testing will tell if builder can finish before some lemming overtakes.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2019, 04:56:41 AM »
Tricky 12 9 skills working on SNES, i just confirmed it. You have to use 38 releaserate and IIRC you have to take this before 3rd lemming will come out (only two single lemmings is allowed run down, i have to check out it better. This is also pixel perfect one. But i take some pictures and this really will be done on SNES version too. 

This is some fun time spend trying that my console.:) I have to thanks you with this. I personally really suck releaserate manipulations.

I can,t make it again. But yeah its working once using heavy amount savestate


Quote
Good find! :thumbsup: This also works on DOS, so the record there is now improved to 7 skills using your discovery.

Thanks.:) This game will always surprise. Nice to see its working DOS version too. :)

« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 06:42:03 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2019, 09:48:43 AM »
So here are the levels that have different results currently between DOS vs SNES:

Tricky
  • 2: 5 (DOS) vs 3 (SNES).  Expected, difference in physics of digger makes 3-skill solution not work on DOS.  Same deal across all four "We All Fall Down".
  • 5: 7 (DOS) vs 9 (SNES).  Test pending for 8 (SNES).  SNES needs 3 builders (instead of DOS's 2) to reach the island before exit, since it has water at the bottom, which are removed on DOS.
  • 12: 9 (DOS) vs 10 (SNES) [MASTER-88 confirmed 9 for SNES as well]
  • 21: 9 (DOS) vs 14 (SNES).  Completely different level.  DOS has "666" and SNES has Japanese "Ohayo".
  • 23: 24 [saves 79/80] (DOS) vs 21 [saves 97/100] (SNES).  [MASTER-88 confirmed DOS lose-1 solution on SNES as well]
  • 26: 3 (DOS) vs 2 (SNES).  Expected, SNES basher can take out one pixel further ahead compared to DOS, just enough to get through pillar with only 2 bashers.
  • 28: 4 (DOS) vs 5 (SNES).  [MASTER-88 confirmed 4 for SNES as well]
Taxing
  • 1: 9 (DOS) vs 10 (SNES).  DOS solution will run out of time on SNES with its faster timer.
  • 2: 8 (DOS) vs 7 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]
  • 4: 14 (DOS) vs 16 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]
  • 7: 8 [79/80] (DOS) vs 10 [99/100] (SNES).  DOS solution relies on being able to bash through the one-way-wall left-to-right from 6-7 pixels below ground level, which probably won't work on SNES (same reason DOS Fun 11 solution won't work on SNES).
  • 8: 8 (DOS) vs 9 (SNES).  Expected, like the earlier Tricky 5, SNES needs 3 builders (instead of DOS's 2) to reach the island before exit, since it has water at the bottom, which are removed on DOS.
  • 13: 10 (DOS) vs 9 (SNES).  Expected:  due to a bug in DOS, you cannot mine left-to-right the one-way wall just before the exit (miner will stop even though it's in same direction as the arrows), instead you have to mine down starting further left to get below it, then bash.  Hence the extra skill usage.
  • 14: 22 (DOS) vs 21 (SNES).  DOS level has 2 more islands than SNES, so there are more gaps to build over.  On the other hand, because DOS lacks water, some gaps can be built over with just 1 builder instead of 2 like SNES.  But actually you didn't handle the Nessy optimally on SNES either, I think you should be able to get 20 on SNES.
    Spoiler (click to show/hide)
  • 15: 11 (DOS) vs 12 (SNES).  DOS solution should also work on SNES.
  • 17: 9 (DOS) vs 7 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]
  • 17: 6 (DOS) vs 7 (SNES).  (There's a typo in MASTER-88's list, it's 8 not 7.) [edit: my mistake, wrong video]  The DOS solution doesn't use crowd control, vaguely similar to Fun 23 (but of course here you can't compress the entire crowd into one single bunch; it'd be more like 12 bunches).  There's no strong reason to suspect there isn't some similar way for it to work out on SNES, but all the technical details, including the release rate(s) to use, will change, due to differences between SNES and DOS miner.  So test pending on SNES, but I'll likely put this off for a while.
  • 18: 12 (DOS) vs 13 (SNES).  [MASTER-88 confirmed 12 for SNES as well]
  • 20: 9 (DOS) vs 8 (SNES).  improved to 7 skills, same solution on both versions
  • 22: 5 (DOS) vs 6 (SNES).  Same as Fun 27, the DOS solution relies on difference in digger behavior that won't work on SNES.
  • 25: 7 (DOS) vs 8 (SNES).  DOS solution looks like won't work on SNES due to SNES having 100 lemmings rather than DOS's 80, plus with SNES's faster timer, the DOS solution ending at around 0:22 will probably run out of time on SNES.
  • 26: 12 (DOS) vs 13 (SNES).  [MASTER-88 confirmed 12 for SNES as well]
  • 27: 12 [77/80] (DOS) vs 14 [97/100] (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]
  • 30: 7 (DOS) vs 3 (SNES).  Expected, We All Fall Down, same deal as Tricky 2.
Mayhem
  • 2: 18 [80/80] (DOS) vs 17 [99/100] (SNES).  Test pending for matching DOS 100% solution on SNES.
  • 3: 4 (DOS) vs 6 (SNES).  Test pending.  I think we might even have found several different 4-skill solutions for DOS actually.  The main difference that can doom some of those solutions though, is that the timer runs faster on SNES so you actually have less time to complete level compare to DOS.  Still, I suggest you take another look at this.
  • 4: 4 (DOS) vs 5 (SNES).  SNES has 100 instead of 50 lemmings and faster timer, so the 4-skill solution runs out of time.
  • 5: 13 18 [76/80] (DOS) vs 14 [95/100] [76/80] (SNES).  DOS solution relies on digger behavior (ie. digging down full length of pole without taking out all 3 columns of pixels of pole) that doesn't work on SNES.
  • 6: 9 (DOS) vs 10 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]
  • 7: 14 (DOS) vs 13 (SNES).  [ccexplore confirmed 13-skill for DOS]
  • 9: 13 (DOS) vs 14 (SNES).  DOS solution uses the same staircase trick as on Fun 29, that doesn't work on SNES for reasons previously explained.
  • 10: 31 [73/75] (DOS) vs 24 [72/75] (SNES).  Test pending for matching DOS solution on SNES.
  • 11: 9 (DOS) vs 3 (SNES).  We All Fall Down for the last time.
  • 12: 5 (DOS) vs 15 (SNES).  DOS solution exploits a very special glitch that lets you get through the steel and go directly to the exit.  I strongly suspect that won't work on SNES, but will test.
  • 14: 18 (DOS) vs 17 (SNES).  [ccexplore confirmed 17-skill for DOS]
  • 16: 2 (DOS) vs 4 (SNES).  DOS solution relies on very precise release rate manipulations to allow a "dig then bash" solution to work out.  SNES doesn't allow changing release rate while paused so you are severely constrained on how much you can jump from one release rate to another.  The timer also runs down slower on DOS so you actually get more time compared to SNES.  My guess is you can't do 2 on SNES, but will test.
  • 17: 12 (DOS) vs 11 (SNES).  [LemSteven confirmed 11-skill for DOS]
  • 18: 20 (DOS) vs 18 (SNES).  [LemSteven confirmed 18-skill for DOS]
  • 21: 28 (DOS) vs 56 (SNES).  On DOS there's a way to get a safe landing with one builder, so that you don't have to use all 50 floaters.  It turns out on SNES, the lemmings emerge from the entrance one pixel further right compared to DOS, and that's enough to land them on the next lower step of the builder bridge, which turns out to be just 1 pixel too long a fall to survive.
  • 22: 16 (DOS) vs 14 (SNES).  [LemSteven confirmed 14-skill for DOS]
  • 23: 18 (DOS) vs 16 (SNES).  [LemSteven confirmed 16-skill for DOS]
  • 25: 12 (DOS) vs 13 (SNES).  [MASTER-88 confirmed 12-skill for SNES as well]
  • 26: 17 [76/80] (DOS) vs 17 [95/100] (SNES).  The DOS version gives you 20 builders instead of 10 like on SNES.  This DOS solution uses 11 builders, so unfortunately not doable on SNES.  I don't see a way so far to adapt the solution to 10 builders, so 95/100 may be it for SNES.
  • 27: 3 (DOS) vs 4 (SNES).  Like Mayhem 16, DOS solution relies on very precise release rate manipulations to make things work out, and DOS also gives you a little more time.  So my guess is you can't do the DOS solution on SNES but will test.
  • 28: 7 (DOS) vs 9 (SNES).  Both solution uses the ceiling-bash route, but so far (more testing later) on SNES we haven't found a way to get past the second metal (the one with the trap below), hence the extra skills.
  • 29: 21 [78/80] (DOS) vs 23 [97/100] (SNES).  The DOS version lacks water below the steel block where lemmings land on.  This lets you steel-glitch your way sufficient far down the steel that you can actually build west from the start instead of east (and need a blocker to turn the build bridge around).  As this can't be done on SNES, the maximum saved on that version will likely remain 97.
  • 30: 38 25 (DOS) vs 25 (SNES).  Level is actually slightly different:  on the left side, there is a part where SNES can use only 5 builders to go across, but on DOS the same part is wider in length and requires 7 builders.  Also, SNES current solution on right side builds into level's right boundary which on SNES will turn lemmings around, that doesn't work on DOS.  However, it is expected that by adopting moves used in DOS solution, SNES should be able to reduce skill count here by at least 1, possibly 2 if it can also replicate the miner behavior used in DOS solution.

Looks like we didn't actually do a very good job for DOS on Taxing and Mayhem. :(  Hopefully some of your SNES solutions on those levels can work on DOS too, and improve the records for that version.  Thanks again!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 10:47:37 AM by ccexplore »

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2019, 12:38:04 PM »
Looks like we didn't actually do a very good job for DOS on Taxing and Mayhem. :(  Hopefully some of your SNES solutions on those levels can work on DOS too, and improve the records for that version.  Thanks again!

It seems this was one of the last challenges that needed to be finished when overall interest in challenges declined, and Minim filled in a lot of gaps with his own results. I'm grateful for the hard work, but I don't have the same confidence in Minim's results being final that I would if it were you or Clam :P The lack of closure on Wicked 6 is especially vexing, since I don't think we have any confirmation that the current "record" has actually ever been achieved.

Maybe if I can work out how to set up Lemmix players on my new HD, I could help out with some of the results again 8-)

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2019, 04:10:37 PM »
About taxing 1: Time limit in level is 4 minutes. Fun solution have 8 minutes. So there is no enought time make this long bashing like fun 15. As far as i can tell its requires 6 minutes time limit.

Quote
4: 4 (DOS) vs 5 (SNES).  Ok, I just attached a screenshot of the DOS solution showing where to bash.  I can't imagine this not working on SNES, unless you run out of time or something.  You tell me

About Mayhem 4: 4 basher solution working in level, but you need more than one minute time. I used it Fun 25, but its take longer than one minute. This time limit is problem. Snes version also includes 100 lemmings. Dos 80 and also timer run faster.
so this there is not time make this in one minute. See fun 25 (4 basher solution) Here you really can see and realize difference about timer. 1 minutes is not enought in any theory used tha way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhPLhRmVcR4&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch&index=25

Mayhem 12
Quote
I strongly suspect that won't work on SNES, but will test.

I am tested that, but its will stop bashing middle of steel.

Mayhem 21
Quote
21: 28 (DOS) vs 56 (SNES).  There's a way to get a safe landing with one builder, so that you don't have to use all 50 floaters

IIRC i am checked out this before and then this doesn´t work. I will try it again and look can one builder are enought. But i am quite sure its doesn´t even you can take it with longer distance. But i´ll check out this better yet.

Mayhem 21 is tested pixel by pixel and this DOS strategy doesn´t work on SNES. Two picture proof it
Pic 1: Last pixel you can command builder without turning
Pic 2: Building is done and lemmings still dies


EDIT:
I also test mayhem 21 midair, but its doensn´t work
Pic 1 Midair
Pic 2 Midair done

EDIT: 2:
However this is really close one (one build gap will needed), but i personally can´t find pixel correct pixel. Someone else might could test that level better. If basher take any longer you can build midair, but its will always turning back. Probably frame perfect releaserate manipulations and etc.. things could make it possible make on SNES version too. But i really cant find that myself. So its impossible as long as someone make it working.

EDIT: 3 BTW: I´ll very thankfully if you guys can give me more tips about tricky 12 (9 skills) Thats look i yesterday make its pure accidentally succesfully, but i forget how hell i did it my TAS. Spending try two more hour today my emulator, but i really can,t make that all again correct. So i can really forget attempts record that my console system. This piss me off so much.:devil:
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 08:13:50 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2019, 06:09:30 PM »
Quote
Maybe if I can work out how to set up Lemmix players on my new HD, I could help out with some of the results again 8-)

https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=download_list&program=42

All of these are self-contained EXEs. (Except CustLemmix, which works the same way CustLemm did.) They've also got a few fixes with regards to accuracy-to-DOS (most notably, EricLang's code made traps faster than they should be, and didn't implement the nuke glitch) compared to the original code by EricLang.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2019, 02:19:01 PM »
About taxing 1: Time limit in level is 4 minutes. Fun solution have 8 minutes. So there is no enough time make this long bashing like fun 15. As far as i can tell its requires 6 minutes time limit.

I checked and DOS Taxing 1 9-skill solution is actually a bit different from the Fun solution, but on DOS it still leaves only 3 seconds on the timer.  Since on SNES the timer runs down faster, it'll almost certainly be out of time.

Mayhem 12
Quote
I strongly suspect that won't work on SNES, but will test.

I am tested that, but its will stop bashing middle of steel.

You haven't tested with the glitch required to make it work though, this is not just your regular "I can remove a little bit of steel" trick.  The glitch lets you assign a digger to a walking lemming standing completely on steel, when there is already another old working digger under the cursor.  The new digger will only dig down 2 pixels before stopping but it's enough.  You actually need to apply the glitch twice in this level, to get far enough into the steel block (basically halfway through it) to start bashing.  I attached a screenshot of what it looks like on DOS.

Mayhem 21
EDIT:
I also test mayhem 21 midair, but its doensn´t work
Pic 1 Midair
Pic 2 Midair done

EDIT: 2:
However this is really close one (one build gap will needed), but i personally can´t find pixel correct pixel. Someone else might could test that level better. If basher take any longer you can build midair, but its will always turning back. Probably frame perfect releaserate manipulations and etc.. things could make it possible make on SNES version too. But i really cant find that myself. So its impossible as long as someone make it working.

Ok, I finally tested this.  It turns out on SNES, the lemmings emerge from the entrance one pixel further right compared to DOS.  That turns out to be enough to land the lemmings on the next lower step of the build bridge, which turns out to be just one pixel too much to survive fall.  So the DOS solution doesn't work on SNES by literally one pixel. :( The basher's dent can't be more than 3 pixels inside the wall for the builder to keep building after one brick without turning around (the builder is at the maximum right when with its first build brick, only the brick's leftmost pixel is outside the wall).  The DOS solution already starts building at that position, so you can't start building any further right either (to try to compensate for the difference on SNES).

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2019, 08:30:50 PM »
Quote
17: 6 (DOS) vs 8 (SNES).  (There's a typo in MASTER-88's list, it's 8 not 7.)

Its not typo. I count there is 41 skills and 34 will be remain. Its 7 skills (5 climber, 5 bomber, 20 builder, 5 basher & 6 miner) =41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mDQvkk3LiI&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj136snR0XiQSGv4jxL4135B&index=17
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2019, 10:07:07 PM »
My bad, apparently I was looking at an older version of your videos (https://archive.org/details/taxing0110012points).

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2019, 12:19:07 AM »
Finally make Tricky 12 Bitter lemming with 9 skills my real console condition. Thats really take time planning this even ccexplore give me awesome releaserate tip. Even then this level was really hard figured out.

Just spending hours practice that my emulator and finally was ready make it my console.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQqwVdkzBZY
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2019, 02:51:57 AM »
Quote
5: 18 [76/80] (DOS) vs 14 [95/100] (SNES).  It's definitely possible to not need a blocker on the right side of the level, but it's a little hard to explain how.  I'll make a separate post on this later.  I'll start though by saying you want to leave the release rate at the initial 80 and wait for everyone to come out first before you start digging down, this keeps the lemmings bunched up tightly into just 6 distinct bunches.  SNES solution for getting 96/100 might take more skills than DOS because you can't use one digger to dig down the thin pillar without breaking through it (ie. same reason we had to find a different way for you to do Fun 28 on SNES).

This is actually 76/80 saved SNES version. But its show 95% because there is not 100 lemmings. Also SNES version includes 80 lemmings in this level so 95% is 4 lemmings lost (all 4 used blockers at end) So 76/80 (95%) using 14 skills is my best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcffs76nwrY

Quote
28: 7 (DOS) vs 9 (SNES).  Given the low number of skills I assume the SNES solution also goes through the ceiling?  Will have to test and see the precise differences between the DOS and SNES solution.  I suspect this may be relying on some quirk on DOS related to builders and ceiling, that may not replicate on SNES; will test.

Yeah my solution use ceiling glitch, but that look digger is mandatory to use before it let you bashing this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOdJYHVlBBY&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj3qTY_z-MWqhoM0AryLTdd1&index=28

I did several test my emulator and around test pixel by pixel, but three things will happen
1: If you build pixel too low its will get hit with roof and turning
2: If you start bash too low lemmings will falling See picture 2
3: If you bash too high lemmings will cancel his bashing. See picture 1

Thats look like its all depend one single pixel once again.

No idea how about 7 skills is possible on DOS. At least this 2nd metal is way too strong with SNES version and basher can,t bash it through. So i used digger, builder and basher before goal.

You guys might test out this better, but its strongly looks 9 skills is mandatory on SNES version.


« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 07:07:05 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2019, 09:03:42 AM »
At least this 2nd metal is way too strong with SNES version and basher can,t bash it through. So i used digger, builder and basher before goal.

I see.  DOS can be made to not have that trouble there.  I'll do some more testing later, but I can believe SNES behaving differently when it comes to checking for stuff (like metal for basher) that's technically outside the regular level map.  9 would be the minimum for sure if you can't get past the second metal.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 09:11:44 AM by ccexplore »

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2019, 04:09:50 AM »
Quote
18: 12 (DOS) vs 13 (SNES).  DOS solution should work on SNES, I even re-tested it with the entrance shifted 1 pixel right to mimic SNES.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I probably miss something. But my solution use 13 skills (11 builders used total.
-6 builder is using build over the wall
-1 builder used lock others lemmings
-2 builders is required builders over goal and turn
-1 builder Make safety landing all others
-1 builders Release alla others.


1-Floater make landing safety
1-Basher crush build before goal

Total 13 skills. And i really cannot see its could any less can happen on SNES. That was also insane hard one to make. Pronbably one hardest levels at all i done. But i really cannot see how make this all 12 on SNES version. Did i miss something. This 13 skills solution is also really pixel perfect one and any less seems rightnow impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bfATwoWopY
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 04:21:47 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2019, 07:36:04 AM »
-1 builder used lock others lemmings

The technique used in the DOS solution does not require an extra builder to hold the lemmings, the arrangement naturally allows only the builder to get up the wall without bringing the rest.  I left some hints in the spoilers above, but if you can't figure it out from those, I've attached a zip file of screenshots here.  You need to do all 7 builders on the left exactly as shown, or you will likely end up either not high enough to get over the wall, or the final builder (for crowd release) will splat some lemmings on the left.

One thing that helps you, is that the game favors the latest lemming out of the entrance when there are multiple lemmings under the cursor.  So even though there are a lot of other lemmings going the "wrong" way, you will be able to assign builder to the right lemming in the right direction (though you might have trouble seeing where exactly it is standing, and you have to assign him builder exactly at the location shown).  Extra difficulty also ensues as the lemming you'd assign 6th builder to would either just come out of entrance or very close to that.

You probably want to try it on emulator first, preferably with framestepping if the emulator has that feature, to confirm the 6th builder can be assigned exactly where it needs to be.  The rest are definitely doable as they aren't affected by the exact location where lemmings emerge from entrance, but that 6th lemming could well be trouble.

At least you don't have to fuss with the release rate this time. :P

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2019, 03:23:51 PM »
Quote
The technique used in the DOS solution does not require an extra builder to hold the lemmings, the arrangement naturally allows only the builder to get up the wall without bringing the rest.  I left some hints in the spoilers above, but if you can't figure it out from those, I've attached a zip file of screenshots here.  You need to do all 7 builders on the left exactly as shown, or you will likely end up either not high enough to get over the wall, or the final builder (for crowd release) will splat some lemmings on the left.


Thats building strategy look awesome, i personally never figured out that you can build like this. I´ll test that strategy later and look can this all be done SNES version too. Its look its definitely worth trying it.

I´ll try this soon and look how its working SNES. Its sounds and look hard, but its might work.

EDIT:
Taxing 18 is 12 skills (10020 points is confirmed) I did it emulator. Next i´ll go for make it my real SNES.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 04:10:16 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2019, 05:03:08 PM »
Taxing 18: 10020 (12 skills) is also done real console.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMCnklk5nE4

That was actually easier executed than my previous super hard 10019 method. At least this take a lot less tries. But all thanks ccexplore. I personally never ever figured out builder thing like this. That was simply awesome strategy.

So one more level is improvement.:)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 05:09:48 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up)
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2019, 10:52:35 AM »
Quote
27: 12 [77/80] (DOS) vs 14 [97/100] (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

13 skills is solved on SNES version. This use very different lock system.  Also tested building things. There is no way make better buildin. Its will let set it one single gap remain, so i can´t find 12 skills solution on SNES. New lock system (13 skills) will be show when i make recorded it my SNES.

EDIT:
Here is console played solution Taxing 27 (13 skills) 97%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qovUzffgfM

I don´t know can 12 skills possible on SNES, but i test out many things and those doesn´t work.  So 13 skills is current best on SNES.


Quote
26: 12 (DOS) vs 13 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

Taxing 26 Triple Trouble 12 skills is possible on SNES version too. I just tested it emulator. Its extremely hard one, but surely possible. Just really pixel perfect timings requires.

EDIT 2:
Taxing 26 Triple Trouble 10068 points (12 skills SNES) is done. Its pretty much same solution than 10067, but one more pixel trick let one more builder remain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjrJgK5pRr4
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 06:53:09 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2019, 02:57:18 PM »
New arachiveorg video link is updated and also youtube list is updated. Nothing new records maded a today, but i test out many things and my opinions is here:

Taxing

Quote
4: 14 (DOS) vs 16 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

This hand trap hitbox explain everythings why you can´t make its any less on SNES. Its also let one pixel remain why can´t skip extra builder. But one pixel is too much.

Quote
14: 10 (DOS) vs 9 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I see typo. This level is Hunt  the nessy 14: 22 (DOS) vs 21 (SNES) is correct.

I personally think DOS level could be easily 21 skills. This level is linear.

Quote
15: 11 (DOS) vs 12 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I can´t really find way make this any less skills on SNES. I trying compress using releaserate manipulations, but i´ll need two skills with starting. I also check out all buildings at end pixel by pixel and its let one-two gap remain. Because building is very similar both SNES & DOS version i think its some version differences level itself. But someone might just check out better. But i personally think 11 skills can´t happen on SNES.


Quote
25: 7 (DOS) vs 8 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I trying a lot things and this level is way too linear. Did DOS version bash both hills with one basher or did you can lock lemmings other ways. Testing pixel by pixel, those bashers doesn,t work. You need use two basher with hills and also two skills lock to back. Other 4 builders is required at end. There is just builder and bashers, no much chances make anythings.

Quote
27: 12 [77/80] (DOS) vs 14 [97/100] (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

Yesterday find 13 solution SNES. Its skip extra bomber. But im not are find 12 skills. This building to left is 2 pixel precision. But trying pixel by pixel, i can´t build it any less.

Mayhem********************************

Quote
3: 4 (DOS) vs 6 (SNES).  Test pending.  I think we might even have found several different 4-skill solutions for DOS actually.  The main difference that can doom some of those solutions though, is that the timer runs faster on SNES so you actually have less time to complete level compare to DOS.  Still, I suggest you take another look at this.

I can imagine there is a lot solutions. Even 3 skills is possible if you have little bit more time. But personally cannot find this level any better on SNES within one minutes time limit. Its have some potential finds. One way i can skip climber, but its requires used floater and blocker. Also way make use digger and blocker with starting, but its will some reason turns two lemmings to run left. This is pretty much same effect like Tricky 24, but here it is useful one. Its very hard explain why its happen, but its can´t be avoid.

Quote
6: 9 (DOS) vs 10 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I got find pretty close method make this with 9 skills, but some things cannot happen like i want. So as far as i can tell 10 skills is best possible on SNES. I think one problem is just that metal and miner differences between SNES and DOS version. Builders is very similar both versions but metal and miner things make a lot potential version differences.



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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2019, 10:10:05 PM »
I haven't forgotten about all this, but I simply don't have much time this week (and likely the next) to look at the levels much further, being an adult with a full-time job and all.  I also plan to first tackle some of the glitch ones like Tricky 23, Mayhem 2 and Mayhem 10, particularly because IIRC I tested at least parts of the DOS solutions for those levels already on SNES (emulator) a long time ago and they worked there.  Maybe by this weekend I could at least confirm in full whether, for example, DOS's Tricky 23 solution can work on SNES.

If you want to understand the DOS solutions sooner than I can get to reviewing them, I strongly suggest you go download LemmixPlayer.exe from the links provided by namida, and then try to find and download the relevant replay file (.lrb) from our "minimum skills with maximum % thread" for the level in question, and play it back in LemmixPlayer to see how it works.  (It's somewhat unfortunate that no one bothered to record all the DOS solutions on YouTube; on the other hand, downloading a tiny replay file is fairly convenient way to share solutions when you already have LemmixPlayer installed.)  Unfortunately due to a past forum migration, some file attachments might be missing from that thread, in that case feel free to post here or IM me with the specific levels in question, so I can get you any missing files.

It is kind of pointless to analyze anything without at least seeing the DOS solutions in action.  The number of improvements you've made recently either on your own or through seeing DOS solutions, have clearly shown that on some levels, there are still bound to be a few things you've either overlooked or would've never considered.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2019, 04:32:58 AM »
Quote
Taxing 20 is down to 7 skills in DOS, beating the SNES record by 1.  The critical point is right at the beginning, where the first obstacle can be cleared with just a digger and a builder, while leaving enough terrain in place to block left-facing lemmings.  This allows the right side to be completed with just 2 bashers.  See attached screenshots.

LemSteven strategy is also confirmed working on SNES version too. Thats make me look idiot when i not figured out that simple thing like this second last basher.
Taxing 20 10153 points (7 skills solution)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYrqXP63Qfg
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 01:32:56 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2019, 10:46:21 AM »
Tricky 13 Lemming Drops: 10178 points (12 skills beat also current DOS record)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRnaWPXLY9w

My previous 13 skills solution was glitch free. With this time its use some metal glitches. I think pretty similar could work mayhem 25, but as far as i remember those diggers could be trouble. I am personally got glitch free solution mayhem 25 with 13 skills. But 13 is probably best possible amount skills you can make glitch free.

EDIT:
Test 12 skills solution mayhem 25, i see this diggers is this trouble. 12 skills required two diggers. Rightnow i can´t see its could happen here. But however. There is now two very different solution make this level done 13 skills. Using my glitchless solution or Lemsteve metal glitch solution. Both working on SNES version too.

And DOS version players can definitely go for Tricky 13 with 12 skills too. (i see 13 skills is current best in the list)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 07:20:08 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2019, 12:53:29 PM »
Quote
[Taxing] 25: 7 (DOS) vs 8 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I trying a lot things and this level is way too linear. Did DOS version bash both hills with one basher or did you can lock lemmings other ways. Testing pixel by pixel, those bashers doesn,t work. You need use two basher with hills and also two skills lock to back. Other 4 builders is required at end. There is just builder and bashers, no much chances make anythings.

I ended up still too busy this weekend to do a lot of extensive testing on solutions I said I'd examine on SNES (eg. Tricky 23).  After updating my post to reflect what you and LemSteven did earlier in the week, I decided to take a look at Taxing 25 thinking it would be quick, but annoyingly there was not only no replay posted, but I can't even seem to find the post mentioning achieving the result for this level for DOS, so I end up having to try out the level myself.  Thus one or so hour I'm not getting back.

Nevertheless I'm able to eventually confirm 7 skills for DOS Taxing 25, replay attached.  But testing also strongly suggests this solution won't work on SNES for two reasons:
  • DOS version only has 80 lemmings, SNES version has 100.
  • SNES timer runs faster.  DOS solution ends around 0:22, so might run out of time on SNES.
It's the kind of solution that merely delays the crowd rather than fully "lock and release" them.  In particular, it has first lemming bash left-to-right at the 4th hill from the left.  With only 80 lemmings and at release rate 99, all the lemmings can turn around in the basher tunnel before the basher breaks through.  But with 100 lemmings on SNES, it looks like the last 10 or so will not be able to turn around, the basher would be done already when they catch up.  Anyway, also using 2 precisely-placed builders near the entrance, you can build a stacked bridge thick enough to turn around lemmings walking left.  So with only 3 skills you can manage the crowd without having to do a full "lock and release".  But even so, the lemmings will catch up quickly to the builder, so you also have to build to the exit starting as far right as you can (yes, it takes 4 builders).  The builder will end up about 5-6 pixels below floor level of exit, which is still short enough of a step for lemmings to walk up, but it means the builder will turn around.  That lemming will therefore end up walking all the way back to the entrance area, before turning around again and finally heading back towards the exit.  It's all this extra walking that eats up so much time in this solution.

I should add that having tested various spots to bash from, it seems like you will either end up stopping after one hill, or you will keep bashing through all the hills (which is bad as you'll have to waste a skill to stop the basher).  I haven't found a way to bash where the basher can go through exactly two hills and then stop.

=================

In the process of updating my posts, I discovered that LemSteven actually found a while back a 4-skill solution for Tricky 28 that was different from the solution I know, and more importantly, his solution should also work for SNES unlike mine.  This link is the post where he describes his solution, I was able to confirm it myself for DOS within a few minutes from his description alone, so I think you can too on SNES.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2019, 03:51:21 PM »
Mayhem 25 10022 points (12 skills is confirmed on SNES version)

Very good job with LemSteve. This solution was really hard one. I personally probably never figured out solution like this. Thats look one most important thing was releaserated 19 very begin of the level. Otherwise this miner can´t going correct. Yeah its take me couple hours figured out all those pixels correct. Those timings in level is all one pixel precision so its not easy level throw. Here is SNES version video with this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_XLxPGAvQ

Quote
In the process of updating my posts, I discovered that LemSteven actually found a while back a 4-skill solution for Tricky 28 that was different from the solution I know, and more importantly, his solution should also work for SNES unlike mine.  This link is the post where he describes his solution, I was able to confirm it myself for DOS within a few minutes from his description alone, so I think you can too on SNES.

Quote
Tricky 28 is now down to 4 skills.  Just to the right of the entrance there is a spot where a lemming can build such that (1) the bridge combined with the existing twig act as a wall to the left-facing lemmings, and (2) the builder does not turn around.

Probably my english problem. But i can´t find any single possible spot lock lemmings with one builder. Im really are check out this level several times and pixel by pixel. I´ll surprised if i can find this spot in this level.  But rightnow its seems 4 skills can´t happen on SNES version. Its little chance i am missing something.

EDIT:
I finally find Tricky 28 pixel. That was just very weird place.:) SO 4 skills will be possible on SNES.

EDIT: 2 Tricky 28 10076 points (4 skills is confirmed on SNES version) Its take surprisely lot time find this. Probably my limited english skills make it bit hard to understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5nmANPlPFw
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 08:26:47 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2019, 07:57:46 PM »
Quote
But with 100 lemmings on SNES, it looks like the last 10 or so will not be able to turn around, the basher would be done already when they catch up.

I did some testing (by modifying the Lemmix level to have 100 lemmings). You can definitely get an 8-skill solution out of this, using an extra builder to turn around the one lemming that would slip through with the basher (when starting the basher just before the 2-pixel step downwards, and having the 1st and 3rd lemming make the turn-around at the start), but no luck on a true 100 lemmings 7 skill solution. (I didn't actually test this solution to completion, just to the point of "do all the lemmings turn around", so it may also be possible that time / timing issues arise later.)

But it also looks like OP already found an 8 skill solution to that level...

I do recall that there's a specific setup where you can use a builder to cancel another builder, while the new builder keeps going. Perhaps this can be combined with allowing one lemming to slip past (then the basher catches up and performs this trick)?

(Put this LVL file in your LemmixPlayer.exe's folder, and turn "LookForLVLFiles" on in the settings.)
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2019, 08:38:34 AM »
I do recall that there's a specific setup where you can use a builder to cancel another builder, while the new builder keeps going.

If it's the setup that relies on a shrugging lemming, I believe you'll end up having to assign him a builder to do the turn around, a builder that's effectively wasted.  More generally, for a new builder to cancel an old one, the new builder has to lay a brick that's higher than the old builder's latest brick, and also soon enough that the new, higher brick is laid before the old builder tries to step up to his own brick (and turn around due to the new brick in the way).  Without existing terrain to assist, the new builder would first need to walk up to the old builder's brick before start laying his new brick, which takes like 9-10 frames.  In the meanwhile, the old builder after laying down his brick, only takes about 5-6 frames before trying to step up to it, thus sooner than the new brick can be laid.

The setup using the shrugging lemming adds delay to the old lemming so that the new brick can be laid in time to help turn the old lemming around, but as the old lemming is already shrugging, you need to assign him another builder, an assignment that in almost all cases cannot help with anything else in a solution.  Other setups involve 3 or more builders, but you still end up with 2 uncanceled builders.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.12.19.
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2019, 07:49:09 PM »
Make some test out Tricky 23 From the boundary line. Using casual strategy 9704 is max pointed.

However test out some things its very close you can 98%. I did some good theory. But rightnow its look you will lost three lemming SNES version.

But if you have one more floater you could make 98%. This look its only way one lemming only could walk away. But 10 floaters is not enought. Look my picture down.

I also did fun find when i attempt save floater. Its actually working quite well, but few troubles kill also this one.

I did short video. You can make one climber use infinite climbing without turning around the wall, but here is one problem. You have to make pixel too far. Thats faller will drop down in same frame and you can,t make perfect basher and miner same time. There is no way slowdown lemmings anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYW3BCeSI1E

I might still keep look around can i make some little bit better. Its requires just one single pixel somewhere level. 1 were lost solutions is definitely out on SNES version, this miner is simply too slow make anythings about this.

EDIT:
Typo I mean 9705 points is confirmed possible. Just infinite climber clip used save floater.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 08:10:49 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.12.19.
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2019, 08:32:39 PM »
Tricky 23 9705 points (20 skills (97%)). Infinite climber clip save one more floater. How ever i still can´t find way make 98% solution. Just read my post above. I still try find it. I probably not are figuired all yet.

97% 20 skills here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI1pYIUPatM

EDIT
98% is confirmed.:) Just climber clip and one floater.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 08:51:50 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.12.19.
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2019, 09:52:19 PM »
Tricky 23 9800 points. 98% saved. Its first 98 completion ever on SNES version. Also first video about this in youtube. Its also my record. Its take me only 5 attempts after i did 9705. But this planning take around 8 hours figured out this. I never are see DOS video myself. Yeah this is pretty awesome record. Really happy with this rightnow.:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8G_RWXM67w

EDIT:
I´ll update playlists later. This is pretty good christmas present. Its not hardest solution managed, but definitely one harder figured out.:)
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.12.19.
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2019, 07:14:32 AM »
So guess what, forum search shows that we (yes, you and I specifically) actually already talked about Tricky 23 right here, waaaaaaaaaaay back in 2011:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1361.msg35105#msg35105

I even gave a pretty detailed step-by-step of the solution.  I've recopied it below without any spoilers (because why not, it's been ages since it was first achieved).

Quote
1) Let first lemming turn around at the wall you need to bash through.  He'll be the lemming you'd try to assign miner later.
2) assign climber to next 8 lemmings (you probably want to assign them much earlier, namely as they emerge from entrance trapdoor)
3) next lemming starts bashing the wall
4) right around this time is also when you need to assign the miner, good luck! (use pause so you have time to position the cursor!)
5) next 2 lemming you need to assign both climbers and floaters, but must be done a bit earlier, namely as soon as they emerged from the entrance.  Or maybe just climber/just floater for one of them.  The floating down from the entrance trapdoor provides some delay before they catch up with the miner, while the climbing provides some additional delay as they briefly try to climb up the end of the basher's tunnel.  (The delays are amplified by the fact that the later a lemming catches up to the basher, the farther they'd have to walk to catch up with the miner.)  In fact, with the correct timing, one of them will continually climb and re-climb the moving end of the bash tunnel without ever turning around, and you need that to happen for lose-1.
6) with any luck, your miner will have mined down just barely enough (and barely in time) to prevent anyone from escaping

I even explained on that exact same post with the step-by-step above, that the key to it all is, you really want to bash earlier than the most obvious time, in order to maximize the amount of delay from walking (the earlier you can bash, the more they'd have to walk), so you shouldn't wait until sending 10 lemmings up the wall before starting to bash.  Looking at your screenshot, seems like you never took my advice from 8 years ago, and was still sending all 10 lemmings up.

Finally, one of the posts on that thread even included a saved movie of the whole lose-1 solution, in the SNES9x emulator's .smv format.  The file attachment is still there!  Though not sure if it still plays on currently available versions of SNES9x and/or other emulators.  Try it anyway and see?

I hope all this provides enough information for you to work things out, even though honestly, I don't know why you didn't seem to bother from 8 years ago with all the information I already provided back then. ??? This is one rare case where I've definitely confirmed things specifically for SNES, albeit on emulator.  Let me know if things still aren't playing out for you the way it did for me 8 years ago.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.12.19.
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2019, 08:11:57 AM »
Okay thanks. Yeah thats seems im really forget read this your information 8 years ago. Im not visited here very active then and im not was even good lemmings players then.

I think this strategy should be working. Let see can i make 99% solution using your tips. Thanks again you got find this.:) I´ll working on this next.

EDIT:
I just got 9901 emulator. Next I´ll make it my console. Thanks Ccexplore. I really was miss your tip year 2011.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 08:58:58 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.12.19.
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2019, 09:22:54 AM »
Here is 9901 solution on console. Thanks Ccexplore. I really was miss your tip year 2011. This one was also very easy executed.:) Easier executed than 97% & 98% solutions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yWvVtAezA
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 09:32:29 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 19.12.19.
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2019, 03:24:11 PM »
New videos updated 19.12.19. Also newest archive link is updated

Quote
23: 24 [saves 79/80] (DOS) vs 21 [saves 97/100] (SNES).  Test pending for matching DOS solution on SNES.

This solutions is succesfully confirmed now.

I´ll back after christmas. There will be few levels remain we have to look better.

I personally no have any clue those glitches mayhem 2 & 10. And no idea if you can make these succesfully on SNES version.

About taxing levels
Quote
7: 8 [79/80] (DOS) vs 10 [99/100] (SNES).  DOS solution relies on being able to bash through the one-way-wall left-to-right from 6-7 pixels below ground level, which probably won't work on SNES (same reason DOS Fun 11 solution won't work on SNES).

I am test that but yeah its look you can´t make this bashing

Quote
15: 11 (DOS) vs 12 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I am look many strategys out includes releaserate manipulations, but can´t find any those working. I also check out some miner strategys, but can´t make those working. Also check out every builders pixels, but its let one or two gap remain, so no way make this. This level probably includes version differences. Especially if DOS use miner strategy.

Quote
27: 12 [77/80] (DOS) vs 14 [97/100] (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

13 skills is confirmed on SNES. But 12 not. But i can surely say casual 97% method building doensn´t work. Its let one gap remain even pixel prfected. No way make it any less

Mayhem 2
Quote
18 [80/80] (DOS) vs 17 [99/100] (SNES).  Test pending for matching DOS 100% solution on SNES.

No any clue how make this glitch. You can´t casually build up and save all lemmings. But someone could look this better. I also tried better 99% solution break this metal using climber, building and bomber but somereason this metal not going broken on SNES version. But you can still climb through fire trap.

Mayhem 3
Quote
4 (DOS) vs 6 (SNES).  Test pending.  I think we might even have found several different 4-skill solutions for DOS actually.  The main difference that can doom some of those solutions though, is that the timer runs faster on SNES so you actually have less time to complete level compare to DOS.  Still, I suggest you take another look at this.

I actually watch 4 skills DOS solution in youtube, but on SNES version time will run out. Even DOS its let 2-3 seconds time remain. Many other ones is also tested, but time will run out and some other troubles here and there. Its strongly look 6 skills is best possible on SNES. But you guys could check out better strats.

Mayhem 6
Quote
6: 9 (DOS) vs 10 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I have some clue how DOS version solution could work and i got make its pretty close work on SNES version, but just seems biggest trouble is strong metal.

Quote
10: 31 [73/75] (DOS) vs 24 [72/75] (SNES).  Test pending for matching DOS solution on SNES.

Like mayhem 2. No idea how make this. I guess this requires use some jump glitch and i´ll need more information about this.

Mayhem 12
Quote
12: 5 (DOS) vs 15 (SNES).  DOS solution exploits a very special glitch that lets you get through the steel and go directly to the exit.  I strongly suspect that won't work on SNES, but will

Already see picture. Its surely not work on SNES version.

But at this point i´ll wish merry christmas guys and back somewhere middle of next week. Let see can we going confirm all others levels.:thumbsup:

« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 03:32:14 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2019, 03:02:21 PM »
Quote
Taxing 14: 10 (DOS) vs 9 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I see typo. This level is Hunt  the nessy 14: 22 (DOS) vs 21 (SNES) is correct.

I personally think DOS level could be easily 21 skills. This level is linear.

So I finally took a look and it turns out the level is actually slightly different on DOS!  DOS actually has two more islands resulting in more gaps to build over.  On the other hand, because DOS doesn't have any water at the bottom, some gaps can be built over with only 1 builder instead of 2.

But it turns out you didn't handle the Nessy optimally either on SNES.  I believe you should be able to use only 20 skills on SNES.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.12.19.
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2019, 03:37:45 PM »
Quote
Taxing 15: 11 (DOS) vs 12 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I can´t really find way make this any less skills on SNES. I trying compress using releaserate manipulations, but i´ll need two skills with starting. I also check out all buildings at end pixel by pixel and its let one-two gap remain. Because building is very similar both SNES & DOS version i think its some version differences level itself. But someone might just check out better. But i personally think 11 skills can´t happen on SNES.

Finally got around to looking at the DOS replay posted.  This does use release rate to compress the crowd perfectly into two bunches.  But it turns out to make that work, you cannot just stick to one release rate, instead you have to alternate between 57 and 58, changing the number again and again after each lemming comes out.  The release rate compression lets you not have to use the extra basher to delay the crowd at the beginning, like you did in your solution.  After that, the rest of solution is identical to what you did on SNES.  There's also reasonably enough time left on the timer that time is probably not an issue either.  It should work on SNES.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 19.12.19.
« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2019, 11:51:43 AM »
Taxing 27
Quote
27: 12 [77/80] (DOS) vs 14 [97/100] (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

13 skills is confirmed on SNES. But 12 not. But i can surely say casual 97% method building doensn´t work. Its let one gap remain even pixel prfected. No way make it any less

Mayhem 6
Quote
6: 9 (DOS) vs 10 (SNES).  [Analysis pending...]

I have some clue how DOS version solution could work and i got make its pretty close work on SNES version, but just seems biggest trouble is strong metal.

For Taxing 27, you can view the DOS solution using Lemmix Player as described step-by-step on this sticky topic.  The replay file to view can be downloaded from this post (look for the one with "7builders" in the filename).

You need 8 skills to make the path to exit (1 bomber, then 5 builders, a blocker, and one final builder).  So it's all about how you hold and release the crowd:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

While the DOS solution captured in the replay file did have a big jump in release rate, I don't think it is strictly required for the solution.  So as long as the blockers behave like they do on DOS, the 12-skill solution from DOS should work on SNES.

------------

For Mayhem 6, you can download the DOS replay file attached to this post, to view in Lemmix Player.  The solution technically can't be done as-is on SNES because it has several sharp changes to the release rates (there are parts where the release rate jumps from 99 to 50 and then back to 99).  I don't know yet how essential those sharp release rate changes are or whether it's possible to find a different sequence of release rate manipulations that provide the same benefits but is executable on SNES, where release rate can't be changed while paused unlike on DOS.  So it's possible there may be no way to make the DOS solution work on SNES, even though everything else in it besides the release rate changes should be doable on SNES.

I believe the release rate manipulation is specifically to help ensure that when the digger starts digging at the spot far enough to the right to eventually be stopped by the metal block, no lemming in the crowd will catch up to the digger before he has dug down far enough, for the right wall to become deep enough to turn lemmings around.  I don't otherwise see a need for the release rate changes.

Not sure what you mean when you talk about "strong metal", so I'm curious what other solution ideas you have in mind that is affected that way? ??? I don't think "strong metal" has any relevance to the DOS solution I know about.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 19.12.19.
« Reply #68 on: December 27, 2019, 05:33:28 PM »
Back the home. I see ccexplore are looking many awesome stuffs.

Taxing 14 Hunt the nessy 20 skills (10034 points) confirmed on SNES version.  This look i never are looking this level enought and i totally overlooked this strategy pass Nessy.  Thanks ccexplore who looking this better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuAUPplLY4I&t=1s

Taxing 15 What an AWESOME level 11 skills (10149 points) is also confirmed on SNES version. I personally really hate those releaserate manipulations. All thanks ccexplore who figured out this and yeah its working also SNES version. Even with 100 lemmings and faster timer its barely enought beat this level using 11 skills. 5 seconds time remain. This was also really painful level, but luckily some errors is allowed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elsiV4H3GQs


About taxing 27
Quote
You need 8 skills to make the path to exit (1 bomber, then 5 builders, a blocker, and one final builder).

That last builder is trouble i´ll need 9 skills pass lake. You will need two builders after last blocker. One is not enought give heights. Otherwise this strategy working well.
1-Bomb.
5-builder
1:blocker
2:builder (one builder not give enought heights) Its let one gap remain.

EDIT:
Actually you could build it with one builder too. Yeah 12 skills is confirmed now. Its bit weird timing. Its actually same was as my 13 skills solution but its use builders.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 06:32:29 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 19.12.19.
« Reply #69 on: December 27, 2019, 09:12:54 PM »
Taxing 27 12 skills SNES. I used very different solution than DOS players. This is same solution as i used my 13 skills, but its includes blocker glitch at end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JnaKFn-4Oo

That look you have to take 5 builders to left one pixel precision and put last blocker one pixel precision and some weird unknow reason this blocker will allow you start build up higher than usually. Some reason i never figured out that before. Yeah that was pretty weird, because its really look all 5 builder have to be pixel perfect.

Also DOS solution is confirmed working on SNES version, but i find my own solution easier executed. Its not matter because 11 skills seesm impossible with both ways
Taxing 27 9718 (12 skills my way)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JnaKFn-4Oo
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 19.12.19.
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2019, 12:04:00 AM »
Taxing 27 12 skills SNES. I used very different solution than DOS players. This is same solution as i used my 13 skills, but its includes blocker glitch at end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JnaKFn-4Oo

That look you have to take 5 builders to left one pixel precision and put last blocker one pixel precision and some weird unknow reason this blocker will allow you start build up higher than usually. Some reason i never figured out that before. Yeah that was pretty weird, because its really look all 5 builder have to be pixel perfect.

It's not weird.  I've always started building before the lemming turns around at the blocker, and let the blocker turn the builder while he is building.  You get slightly higher because after laying down first build brick while still facing left, the lemming gets to move up the brick and then got turned around.  So on second build brick, lemming is now as far left as it can be, but already one brick higher than before.  In contrast, if you wait until after the blocker turned the lemming first then assign builder, then it starts building still just as far left as the blocker lets it, but it doesn't get that extra first brick to stand on, so it ends up always one brick lower than if it started building before turning around.  That aspect is not a glitch by any means, it's just logic.

You do need to make sure you place the blocker as far left as you can though, otherwise it would turn around lemmings quite a bit sooner on its right.  I'll spare the technical details, but that has to do with the game tracking certain things like blocker's "field (range) of turning around" in coarser resolution than pixels--it only tracks those at a resolution of 4x4 pixel squares, so sometimes a 1-pixel difference in placement of blocker can actually shift the effective range of blocking by 4 pixels rather than just 1.

Anyway, good job with using the right area to hold and release the crowd, we haven't considered that before in any challenge solutions so far for that level.  Too bad it doesn't seem to allow for less than 12 skills either. :(

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 19.12.19.
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2019, 02:57:51 PM »
Mayhem 30 (24 skills) 10061 points is confirmed on SNES.
I never are see DOS solution, but just are read some ccexplore post and its seems this level is very different with both versions. But this route use same starting route as my previous record. But better buildings strategys at end. Rightnow i cannot imagine anymore skills could saving. This is probably max pointed now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHy0s66RCWI&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj3qTY_z-MWqhoM0AryLTdd1&index=30
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2019, 09:37:05 PM »
Quote
Mayhem 30 (24 skills) 10061 points is confirmed on SNES.
I never are see DOS solution, but just are read some ccexplore post and its seems this level is very different with both versions. But this route use same starting route as my previous record. But better buildings strategys at end. Rightnow i cannot imagine anymore skills could saving. This is probably max pointed now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHy0s66RCWI&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj3qTY_z-MWqhoM0AryLTdd1&index=30

Test out couple things which will explain 10062 (23 skills) can´t happen, but you can make 10061 points also one less builder but requires use climber.

Picture 1: Show you need climber if you skip builder. But its easier make 4 regular builders than 3 pixel perfect builders. 4 builder method is used my video
Picture 2: Show level difference between DOS and SNES. There is one less hill on SNES version.
Picture 3: Show. There is actually spot right before arrow. You can bash through arrow, metal pillar, hill and  normal pillar using one single basher, but lemming will still continue basher until its bash out. This requires use builder to cancel bashing. So method bash all in one can,t work save any more skills.

Those 3 picture explains 24 skills seems lowest possible skills save 100% mayhem 30.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 09:46:56 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2019, 04:09:18 AM »
Tricky 11 Lemming in the attic 100% saved with 9 skills used. Its make 10181 points. I see this also beat DOS version record. And this is probably very new find.

Here is video if you want spoiled it and confirm it. Im pretty sure its might work on DOS version too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHYaYfyyUj8



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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2019, 10:32:44 AM »
Good job! :thumbsup: I've worked it out myself for DOS.  I did it slightly different because I wasn't sure whether the climber can end up high enough while inside the basher tunnel (which has slightly curved end) for trick to work, so I opted to have the climber start climbing the original wall just as it was about to get bashed away, to set up the trick at that point instead.  That needs a sharper release rate change that isn't possible on SNES.  Upon further thinking of the details of how climbers move on DOS, I think your way on SNES likely works on DOS as well.

===============

Regarding Mayhem 30, the DOS solution is actually identical to SNES solution for most part.  The only other opportunity where you might be able to save a skill, but not sure it would work or not on SNES, relates to the mining near the exit.  On DOS, there is a pixel-precise location there you can start mining, that will create a path for which the miner doesn't exit himself while mining, but other lemmings walking along the steps left by the miner can exit, so you don't have to use an extra builder to make the exit accessible.  I've attached a picture of what it looks like on DOS.  If you go into the technical details on DOS this is arguably a bug, or at least an unexpected discrepancy, between how the game positions the miner during mining vs how walkers are positioned when they walk along the path left behind by miner.

SNES miner is different in ways that I don't yet fully grasp, and I also don't know the effective range of the exit trigger (ie. which set of pixel locations will make lemmings exit when they stand on them) on SNES either.  So it's quite likely this won't work on SNES, but hard to know without testing.  If you want to test it out I'd suggest use an emulator and savestates, to more quickly try all the different locations to start mining near that area and see if any of them work.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 10:38:00 AM by ccexplore »

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2019, 11:15:00 PM »
Mayhem 30 exit bug is tested and yeah its doesn´t work on SNES. Even if this work, its will requires use builder before enter miner tunnel.  So thats definitely impossible way save skills in this level.

About taxing 4. I am watch some DOS solutions in youtube and this hand trap hit box seems very different. I was still close make 15 skills solution on SNES. But that trap hitbox really surprise me. Somereason its allow builder build up, but when i release other ones that hand hitbox is still active and will kill those lemmings. I did short video about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNmVj8cXys0

Only otherway make 15 skills could if i can build up without locking lemmings. Thats requires me start digger and basher left to right as left as possible. Then i could make four builders lower, but its still build up high enought. But this massive lemming group is big trouble because those hand traps will kill faller lemmings. This first hand trap is not that trouble because there is enought space but 2nd one will be big trouble. This might still possible if you releaserated perfect. But i really suck all releaserate things.  I never figured any releaserate stuff myself.

Also im tested method use 3 builders to left with starting level, but one gap will be mandatory pass first trap. So i cannot find any theory make this working 3 builders used.

My 16 skills video is just simply criss cross building up and thats look trap hitbox don´t allow you build any better. But this lemming group manipulation stuff might worth testing. But definitely need help releaserated better and however its might probably still impossible pass 2nd hand trap without faller lemmings.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwaQ99mEG-4&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj136snR0XiQSGv4jxL4135B&index=4



« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 11:30:17 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2019, 11:50:43 PM »
I'll try to take a look at your Taxing 4 video later this week to see what differences there are.  On DOS each trap has a trigger area (ie. hitbox) that's a 4x4 pixels square, also they don't quite line up with the walls (ie. there's actually a narrow gap between the actual walls nearby and the edges of the hitbox square).  Furthermore, collision check is solely based on a one-pixel point near the foot of the lemming, rather than the entire visible sprite of the lemming.  The vertical positioning of the trigger area is right around the spike that is second from bottom.

On the DOS solution, 10 builders are used to reach the exit.  How few can you get away with on SNES, if you ignore the lemmings that get killed because the builder hadn't finished building?

Ultimately there's a bit of luck involve to try to avoid having lemmings fall off an in-progress build bridge while it is directly over the trigger areas, and so on SNES you probably have to time things slightly different in various places to gain that luck in timing compared to the DOS solution.

DOS also has a difference in that for two-entrance levels, the lemmings come out of the entrances in 1-2-2-1-... order rather than the expected 1-2-1-2-... order like on SNES.  So basically you can't just directly copy the DOS solution exactly, but I still expect you can make do with some variation of it--the idea of the solution doesn't seem to rely on the 1-2-2-1 ordering, at least not obviously.

Note that the DOS solution doesn't "lock" lemmings to use your words, it is another case where release rate manipulations are used to bunch them up.  No drastic changes to the release rate are needed though.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #77 on: January 01, 2020, 08:18:21 PM »
Quote
On the DOS solution, 10 builders are used to reach the exit.

Its requires 12 skills/builders reach the exit on SNES. 4 other skills will used starting. Just miner, digger, basher & last builder will release group. This way is used my 16 skills solution.

Thats really look trap hitbox not allow you build any less building. Yesterday did video where one lemming reach exit using only 11 builders, but that hand will kill those released lemmings.

I have also theory solution make level with 15 skills. Just used miner (unactive first trap) make digger and basher (left to right) take both as left as possible. This basher will be stop when it reach rightside. Then you can build up using 12 builders. But its look this solution never work make 100% because i can´t compress lemming groups enought and those will be falling and deaths when i reach 2nd hand trap.

But this look just fact 12 skills is mandatory reach the exit on SNES even one lemming will survive alive 11 skills only. (see video upper post)

EDIT:
I did two more emulator videos explain hitbox little bit better. Because my english is not that good. So its easier show some things.
5 builders is not enought pass first hand trap on SNES. Its requires use 6 ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLLoT55NDvI

Here is alternate way. But i personally can´t find way compress lemmings group enought and avoid faller lemming death with hands. If you can find perfect way compress and manipulate lemmings then 15 skills is theory possible. But its seems just impossible pass at least 2nd hand trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChMqmsi2Rt0



« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 09:08:42 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #78 on: January 02, 2020, 02:18:44 PM »
I finally tested Taxing 4 myself on SNES, focusing on the spike traps.  Testing shows their trigger areas (ie. hitboxes) on SNES seems to be about 3x taller than on DOS, fully spanning both middle 2 of the 4 spikes, rather than just the 2nd from bottom like on DOS.  So yeah, I think you'll need 2 more builders than DOS.

One additional wrinkle is that I noticed you handled the right side on SNES using a miner near the "hangman" trap.  That doesn't work on DOS, the miner will not be stopped by the nearby steel on DOS, so the DOS solution actually handled the right side by digging a pit then build, holding (ie. "locking") those lemmings in the dig pit.  This has the side effect of basically bunching the lemmings on that side to a much tighter group, so you only need to manipulate release rate to bunch up lemmings on left side.  But for your proposed 15-skill solution (ie. no locking) on SNES, you can't use that option for the right side, so somehow the release rate manipulations to bunch up lemmings has to work for both sides, not just the left.  I strongly suspect that won't be possible because it looks like the widths of the two walking areas are not the same.

Even if there is a working release rate manipulation, the need to use more builders on SNES to get past the top spike trap will likely create a problem.  More lemmings compared to DOS will likely be catching up to the builder before he has finished making the path fully safe from the spike trap, and they may also be walking around the area longer as there is more building needed compared to DOS.  So it might well be that even with bunching up the lemmings perfectly, the timing might still not be able to work out on SNES for all the lemmings to avoid the spike trap.

While I'm not completely out of ideas yet, for now I'd say not to waste more time on this level.  If I do eventually find something that I've actually tested on SNES and shows promise there, I'll let you know.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #79 on: January 02, 2020, 03:31:45 PM »
Mayhem 1 Steel Works 100% saved with 27 skills. I see this beat also DOS version record with one less skill used. Im not sure is there version differences between SNES vs DOS. Someone DOS player might try confirmed this.

This use pretty much same solution as my 28 skills solution, but new lock and released strategy make me completed this one less skill..
Mayhem 1 10028 points (100% & 27 skills)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPSvZbpeT7c

EDIT:
Mayhem 2 9949 points 99% & 16 skills used. Just better system lock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdIZCnI7HoQ
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 08:53:50 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2020, 06:33:15 PM »
Quote
EDIT:
Mayhem 2 9949 points 99% & 16 skills used. Just better system lock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdIZCnI7HoQ

Just check out DOS 100% solution.
1: If you can make this lock system working you can make 99% using 15 skills without glitches. And yeah this lock system work like DOS but releaserate is big trouble. I have to slowdown 3rd lemmings, because 2nd lemmings no have time build up and lock 3rd lemmings. Im not give up yet, but its strongly looks its requires extra builder slowdown. This look DOS version you can change releaserate when you are paused and its doesn´t work on SNES.

2: I finally see how this sliding glitch is maded here, but i personally not know how its exactly working. I am see it used some TAS runs and etc... But i guess its just perfect timing.

3: 3rd trouble is releaserate like 67 used on DOS version its not enought fast let pass 100 lemmings out fast enoought. There is 80 lemmings on DOS and 100 lemming on SNES. If you need compress you have to make it using faster releaserate or just waste more time in level.

My final analyze: You can´t copy DOS version method on SNES version. But sliding glitch is confirmed working on nearly all lemminsg versions. But you have to make compress and nearly all things different way on SNES.

Let see.....???

Some tips might very welcomed. I might also try find 99% 15 skill method its only required me slowdown 3rd lemming little bit more but its hard because you can´t change releaserate when are paused on SNES. So only potential way is manipulate 1st and 2nd lemmings come out faster and slowdown before 3rd one or just try turn 2nd lemmings faster and make lock. This spend testing.

EDIT:
Short (7 seconds video) why 15 skills 99% and DOS lock doesn´t work on SNES. Its really look there is no way make this lock like DOS did. I look just little bit better, but this look level desing is bit different than DOS. Its look 3rd lemming come out faster even releaserate is 30. I just trying copy DOS method and change releaserate and many things but its not help. DOS not even change releaserate before 3rd lemmings come out. So DOS method make better lock doesn´t work. There might still different method, but its requires more testing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoEAUhK1o68&feature=youtu.be

Im bit tired rightnow tested different pixels and releaserates one by one. But i might back this later.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 08:46:55 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2020, 12:36:05 PM »
Which DOS Lemmix replay did you based your video on (can you post the URL, or the topic title and reply #, if you got it from this forum)?  It doesn't quite match any of the 100% solutions replay I have on my computer and I have 3.  It looks closest to the one whose filename has "15builders", but your two build bridges in the video look too far apart compared to the replay.  The other two replays on my computer have the bridges starting a little bit further out to the left than your video.

The solution that produces the DOS record for total skills count at 100% save, is a variation of this one which originally uses only builders, but can be trivially modified to use 17 builders and 1 climber.  It only uses very small release rate changes that are definitely doable on SNES, but as a result it takes longer for level solution to complete (nearly all lemmings are coming out at release rate 30).

The replay for the 15-builder solution is this one, but it uses more of other skills, and so the total skill count actually comes out to 20 and not better than the DOS record for total skill count.  It looks like your interest in this replay was primarily for the slightly more efficient way to hold (ie. "lock") the lemmings.

Now to address your comments:

1: If you can make this lock system working you can make 99% using 15 skills without glitches. And yeah this lock system work like DOS but releaserate is big trouble. I have to slowdown 3rd lemmings, because 2nd lemmings no have time build up and lock 3rd lemmings. Im not give up yet, but its strongly looks its requires extra builder slowdown. This look DOS version you can change releaserate when you are paused and its doesn´t work on SNES.

If you are referring to the "15-builder" DOS solution, that is not the one that produces the DOS record anyway.  For the "lock system", note that you need to set the release rate to 40 before the first lemming comes out.  I think you might have missed that when watching the replay, which may be why you ended up building the rightmost bridge not as close to the other bridge as you see in the replay, causing things to not work out.  Release rate can be 40 at any time as long as it is before you can see the first lemming coming out.  Once after the first lemming comes out, drop the release rate back to 30 before second lemming comes out.  These release rate changes are definitely doable on SNES.

The 15-builder DOS solution then requires a release rate change from 30 to 67 after second lemming comes out.  This can actually be made 31 to 66 for same effect.  It is quite a high release rate change, but based on my calculations it might still barely be doable on SNES.  Even if it isn't, it just means you have to spend an extra climber for the extra lemming that isn't part of the compressed crowd that gets slide up by the glitch.  In any case, this isn't really worth discussing further because the 15-builder DOS solution is not even the DOS record when it comes to total skills.

When watching Lemmix replays, note that release rate changes have same effect regardless of exact timing, as long as it is done at some point right after Nth lemming out and right before the N+1-th lemming out--the change would then affect not lemming N+1, but the next-next one (N+2).  It is not literally necessary for the release rate to make an instant jump from one value to a much larger value, though it is certainly possible with pausing on DOS Lemmings, and Lemmix replays depict all release rate changes as instant given it is always possible with pausing.

2: I finally see how this sliding glitch is maded here, but i personally not know how its exactly working. I am see it used some TAS runs and etc... But i guess its just perfect timing.

There is a brief overview here (under section "Builders"), and I've included some additional details in below spoiler section.  It does unfortunately require perfect or near-perfect timing to trigger, which means that in practice, even something as trivial as how long to let a lemming shrug before assigning him next builder, can affect the timing needed.  So even when you know the exact timing details, in practice you can almost never work it out in advance, instead you need to use tools like emulators to see how much you've deviated in your current attempt from the perfect timing needed, and then make small tweaks to previous moves before the glitch to try to get the timing to line up.  So I'm not 100% sure how helpful those details will be, but I guess better than nothing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Probably the most useful information is just to know what happens when you missed the perfect timing:  if the builder builds too early, the step turns into a wall too early so the lemming just turns around instead of getting slid up.  If the builder builds too late, then the lemmings already finishes moving up the step before the build brick is fully laid down, and often those lemmings will then get trapped in what has now become a wall instead of a step.  With this information, you can tell when tweaking a solution attempt, whether you need to make the builder build slightly earlier or later, or make the lemming reaches the step earlier or later.

3: 3rd trouble is releaserate like 67 used on DOS version its not enought fast let pass 100 lemmings out fast enoought. There is 80 lemmings on DOS and 100 lemming on SNES. If you need compress you have to make it using faster releaserate or just waste more time in level.

I think you are overestimating the amount of time needed for these solutions.  Testing shows that SNES advances game 15 times (steps) for the game's timer to go down one second, versus DOS's 17 times.  Now let's look at the 17-builder 1-climber DOS solution, which actually takes even longer as it leaves the release rate mostly at 30:

- The level gives you 6 minutes.
- The 80th lemming comes out when timer reads 3:01.
- The last lemming to exit finishes exiting when time reads 2:18.

So the DOS solution takes no more than 3 minutes for 80th lemming to come out, which in DOS is 17 * 180 = 3060 steps.  From the point of 80th lemming out to the level being done, it's about 43 seconds, let's round that up generously to another minute = 17 * 60 = 1020 steps.

At release rate of 30, there is floor((99-30)/2) + 4 = 38 steps between one lemming coming out of entrance and the next one coming out.  So having 20 more lemmings on SNES would add 38 * 20 = 760 steps, waiting for them to come out at release rate 30.

Altogether we end up with 4840 steps total, which with SNES's faster game timer taking only 15 steps for each second, we end up with 4840/15 = 322.7 seconds = about 5 min 23 seconds.  So yes, you are cutting it a little close, but still under the 6 minute mark.

If you're still not convinced, try this:  according to the above calculations, on SNES with release rate left at 30, the 100th lemming to come out should do so around when the timer reads 1:45.  Play the level doing (almost) nothing but wait for the lemmings to come out, and see how close the prediction is to reality.

There is however one trouble I've excluded:  as you can see when watching the Lemmix replay, the DOS solution actually takes some time waiting after 80th lemming is out before assigning the builder that releases (ie. "unlock") the crowd.  This wait is specifically to get the timing to work out later for applying the glitch.  With 100 lemmings instead of 80, the required timing obviously changes, and may end up requiring more waiting (beyond just waiting for the 100th lemming to come out) compared to DOS solution.  So it is possible you might run out of time as a result, only testing can tell.

As for the 15-builder solution, since it uses a comparatively higher release rate, you are in even less danger of running out of time.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #82 on: January 06, 2020, 02:00:42 PM »
Quote
Which DOS Lemmix replay did you based your video on (can you post the URL, or the topic title and reply #, if you got it from this forum)?

That replay file name was mayhem2_15 builder_100.

I also watch mayhem2-builders_100

Those two solutions was only i got find then. Not sure is there other completion solutions. But yeah its look i more watch this 15 builder version, because its look completely more simple.

Quote
If you are referring to the "15-builder" DOS solution, that is not the one that produces the DOS record anyway.  For the "lock system", note that you need to set the release rate to 40 before the first lemming comes out.  I think you might have missed that when watching the replay, which may be why you ended up building the rightmost bridge not as close to the other bridge as you see in the replay, causing things to not work out.  Release rate can be 40 at any time as long as it is before you can see the first lemming coming out.  Once after the first lemming comes out, drop the release rate back to 30 before second lemming comes out.  These release rate changes are definitely doable on SNES.

Okay thanks. I probably miss out this. I just look solution where releaserate jump 30-67. I´ll test out this 40.;)

« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 02:08:24 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #83 on: January 06, 2020, 03:56:47 PM »
Mayhem 2 9950 points (15 skills solution)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWtTCI9Mpts

Yeah this look i already overlook few things. Just releaserate 40 & builder spots. Thanks ccexplore your tips with this.

This seems this is finally perfect 99% solution. Its time to work 100% slide glitch solution next. There might be some differents about releaserating on SNES.

EDIT:
Quote
mayhem2-builders_100

Just check out this solution and its seems you not need change releaserate here very much. Its might potential. I have to look if this building method will work here.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 07:41:17 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2020, 07:30:39 PM »
Trying make 100% lock like DOS version did, but i did something wrong but can,t see what. Lemmings doesn´t compress like DOS replay. I
I did emulator video and little bit explain:

Releaserate 30 & builder and then releaserate 33
Seconds lemming come out releaserate 33 to 35 and 2nd builder
Third lemming comeout releaserate 35 to 30 and then make lock. Its just easier look video. But you can see lemmings doens,t compress and then i can´t make slide glitch at end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Ftymx66N4

I probably overlook something or there is just bit difference about releaserate when you can´t change it when you are paused.  Just spend good 2 hours, but can´t make compression succesfully.

EDIT:
Just did this compression succesfully on DOS version and its only take few attempts. Its really seems this paused help a lot make it correct because its seems this releaserating is very precise make perfectly. Im not know can DOS version method even working on SNES.

Im not 100% sure how releaserate register on SNES version. Even you need only changes releaserate between 30, 33 & 35 and 30 but its probably register it bit wrong when im unpaused and thats mean its not are working on SNES.

Using DOS version im not find that much trouble make this perfect compression. Just only take me few failed attempts and resets on DOS. Trying use same way on SNES emulator thats compression not happen correctly, see video upper.

So probaby we have to plan little bit different strategy on SNES version or this all will requires more better timing releaserate correct.

EDIT 2:
Test more test DOS vs SNES and i can easily say this releaserate method which used DOS version doesn´t work on SNES version. I did it several times correctly on DOS version, but no hope make it on SNES. Thats not compress on SNES. Im not going spend anymore time trying make that way working. But however there might be different working compress method on SNES. Its will requires more testing. As long as we can´t compress lemmings we can´t make 100% done on SNES version.

This look its requires extremely sharp releaserate manipulations and thats cannot make on SNES like DOS. I´ll hope Ccexplore who is releaserate expert might look is there any working way make perfect compression on SNES version.



« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 09:58:50 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #85 on: January 06, 2020, 11:14:12 PM »
You built in the wrong places again, this time in your video you are building one pixel farther to the right than you should be (ie. you should shift the two bridges left 1 pixel).  Please use the pattern of pixels at the floor as a reference to line up your builders exactly as seen in the Lemmix replay.  Perfect compression requires perfect placement so that the walking back and forth is of an exact distance.  The release rate changes look correct in the video.

Also note that you will see the first lemming that comes out, eventually wound up being 1 pixel off from the crowd (instead of perfectly at same spot as crowd).  This is intentional.  The builder that eventually triggers the glitch is second lemming out, and the timing required for triggering sliding varies slightly based on whether the lemming came out of entrance before vs after the lemming that builds.

Your mistake isn't a total loss though.  It shows that, if leaving things mostly at release rate 30 ends up taking too long, we could instead try the setup in your video using a slightly higher release rate (but not so high as to make it impossible to do in SNES) to compensate for the shorter walking distance.  But that change affects timing of other things as well so at the moment, let's stick with the DOS solution for now before we are forced to start deviating.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2020, 07:13:24 AM »
Quote
You built in the wrong places again, this time in your video you are building one pixel farther to the right than you should be (ie. you should shift the two bridges left 1 pixel).  Please use the pattern of pixels at the floor as a reference to line up your builders exactly as seen in the Lemmix replay.  Perfect compression requires perfect placement so that the walking back and forth is of an exact distance.  The release rate changes look correct in the video.

Okay. Thats just ironic i did perfect compression on DOS version several times, but can´t make it even once on SNES using releaserate rate like this. I´ll keep trying and look what hell i do wrong around pixels.

Using releaserate 34. 97/100 lemmings going in one single bunch without trouble. But thats change nearly everything else in level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbWPTi22B1s

EDIT:
LOL I finally did its correct. :lem-shocked: That ironic how long its take me.

EDIT 2: Compression is succesfully done now, but no hope make slide glitch. Couple hours trying, its incredible difficult even emulator. Thats look its frame perfect includes builders and waver animations which are nearly impossible make consistent perfectly. Thats look my skill level is no enought make this on console. Its might work on emulator if i spend next couple days attempts this. Its look 4 hours attempts not was enought yet. I´ll need break now.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 10:10:51 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2020, 11:19:27 AM »
Ok, to help you at least get a 100% result even if not optimal skill-wise, here is an easier but slightly inferior adaptation of the DOS record solution, that requires no tricky frame-perfect timing (like how long to wait for a builder to shrug), you just have to assign all the builders at exact locations as shown in replay, not easy but still more doable.  97 (instead of 99) lemmings get slid up and the rest you rescue with climbers, also an extra builder is used.  So I think you will end up using 21 skills compared to DOS record's 18, but at least it gets you your first 100% result on SNES to start.  See attached Lemmix replay.  The replay works off DOS's 80 lemmings, but same moves still work with SNES's 100 lemmings, since with this solution you no longer rely on trying to time that lone lemming that's not with the crowd.  The important thing here is to change release rate from 30 to 36 sometime after the 98th lemming comes out but before the 99th comes out.  This would put the 100th lemming slightly ahead of the compressed crowd.  You will end up using him instead to be the builder that triggers the sliding glitch.  I also reused all the same minor release rate changes at the start as the original DOS record solution.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2020, 07:15:39 PM »
Damn that its so close. I got slide glitch working but only one will slide up. Trying both methods. I have to look some things better i guess.

Slide 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXPJ-JlZGOc

Slide 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfLPibejSFM
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2020, 07:43:46 PM »
Slide 1 seems to finish building one step too early so the crowd ends up turning around instead of going up.  I guess somewhere (perhaps offscreen) one of your builders is placed differently from DOS replay?  But I think it means you can also try release rate of 34 instead of 36 to effectively make the builder build slightly later, if you can do all other parts of level exactly as you did in that video.

Slide 2 (ie. based on the DOS record solution) I probably have to see what you did differently on the right to figure out what went wrong.  It looks to me like you somehow ended up with the compressed crowd slightly behind, instead of ahead, of the lemming that is one step off from the crowd.  Even if the timing had worked out to slide the compressed crowd, you would then end up with that other lemming not getting slide up instead (and then you would need to spend an extra climber for him).  For matching the DOS record, you need that other lemming to be exactly one step behind the crowd, so that everyone (except the builder of course) can slide up.

For slide 2 solution (ie. the one based on the DOS record) make sure you assign the builder for "unlocking" exactly as shown location-wise in Lemmix replay.  That needs to be exact so after he finishes building he merges perfectly with the crowd.  That said, I don't actually know if that's the reason you failed for slide 2, just a guess.

But yes, getting very close! :thumbsup: Good luck!  Also worth pointing out that this level is probably hardest one to use the sliding glitch on for points record solutions, because you need the glitch to slide almost everyone up, which leads to the requirement for perfect compression.  On other levels you just need to slide one or two lemmings up which is a lot easier to manage.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2020, 07:59:55 PM »
Damn i finally confirmed 100% saved SNES version. Its emulator video and used savestate and slowmotion. Thanks ccexplore with this easier video allow use climbers

100% Snes confirmed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yejbvn3yQd8

Okay im not think i´ll make this on console very soon. I have to increased my consistent a much. Just spending 2 days save stating here. At least 100% is proofed working on SNES. Im happy see this happen.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 29.12.19.
« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2020, 08:47:47 AM »
While I'm not completely out of ideas yet, for now I'd say not to waste more time on this level [Taxing 4].  If I do eventually find something that I've actually tested on SNES and shows promise there, I'll let you know.

I haven't tested anything on SNES, but you should know that for Taxing 4, I've finally managed to beat the former DOS record of 14 skills for Taxing 4 to 13 skills now.  See this post for the Lemmix replay for DOS.  Moreover, this is a completely different solution that completely avoids the spike traps on the left, instead it uses the sliding glitch to send one lemming up on the right side, then have him mine to help create a path for the other lemmings.  While there is no guarantee that the solution will work on SNES, I think it looks promising and is worth testing out.

Because on SNES the basher's stroke reaches one pixel farther than DOS, one change on SNES is you need to start the digger (and later the basher) one pixel more to the left compared to what you see in DOS replay.  The SNES miner is also different so you won't match the miners exactly as seen on DOS, but I think as long as you're close enough, that part should hopefully still work out for SNES, although we'll have to see whether the second miner is able to take out that chunk of the steel metal block on the right side of the level (the one just to the right of the "hangman" trap).

Timing will be very difficult because unfortunately, your success in triggering the glitch will also depend on the exact timing of when you assign basher to the digger near the start of the solution.  You'll have to watch the exact graphic of the digger animation to determine when to assign basher (I think it is maybe 5 or 6 steps [ie. "frames"] after digger takes out 9th row of pixels?).  I'll have to do some more testing to try to find an easier way that works on SNES, that is solely based on release rate changes and do not require you to also worry about exact timing of the basher assignment.  In the DOS replay, you just need to change release rate to 54 sometime after 8th lemming comes out and before 9th lemming comes out, but again that also assumes exact timing of the basher assignment.  The 34th lemming to come out will end up the one that gets slide up, which means you can also potentially try tweaking the release rate after 32nd lemming comes out, in order to make the 34th lemming approach the step at the perfect time to slide.

One other difficulty in the solution is to time the builder that will, while it is still building, potentially put some lemmings directly over the hangman trap.  You have to time it so that no lemmings will fall off the bridge during the short time the end of bridge is directly over the hitbox of the trap.  It's trial and error for me to find the right time to start building there in Lemmix, and unfortunately on SNES the timing for that will almost certainly be different (it won't ever exactly match what you see in the DOS Lemmix replay) due to various differences.  One thing you could consider is, since the current SNES record is 16 skills, you can consider spending an extra builder to build over the trap hitbox so no lemming can ever be harmed by it.  That would at least get you a 14-skill result, before you try to go for 13 skills without the safety afforded by that extra builder.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2020, 05:23:10 PM »
About mayhem 2 100%. Yesterday spend 136 failed attempts and few hours on console. That was definitely my best attempts to reach 100% my real SNES system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tbnd4Sn-Bo

I still not undestand weirdness in this level and what i exactly do wrong?
This video use extra build gap method (44 gaps to left 3x12 +8). DOS replay use 43 gaps method. Its look both ways will  working, but its only will change some timings elsewhere level. I personally find 44 gap way more familar.

Its not matter why i still fuck up sliding glitch nearly all times nevertheless did i use 43 or 44 gap method . I am confirmed 43 & 44 gaps method will both work but just little bit different step timings at end, but its not seems requires timing slide glitch.

I still find this slide glitch extemely random. I guess i did some errors with starting level or end when i released crowd. But can´t see exactly what is going wrong. I think this will requires much more testing yet or hope perfect timing luck and lottery luck. Because rightnow its seems just hell fucking random consistent even emulator.

Quote
I haven't tested anything on SNES, but you should know that for Taxing 4, I've finally managed to beat the former DOS record of 14 skills for Taxing 4 to 13 skills now.  See this post for the Lemmix replay for DOS.  Moreover, this is a completely different solution that completely avoids the spike traps on the left, instead it uses the sliding glitch to send one lemming up on the right side, then have him mine to help create a path for the other lemmings.  While there is no guarantee that the solution will work on SNES, I think it looks promising and is worth testing out.

Great job. I´ll look this later and make my analyze how its might work on SNES. Probably when i bored mayhem 2 100% solution first. Rightnow my head will explode and brains will boiling when we talking about sliding glitch. I really hate that fucking trick.:devil:

« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 05:35:48 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #93 on: January 09, 2020, 01:47:38 AM »
JES Mayhem 2 100% saved on real SNES system. I got also extra point which not nearly never happen

100% saved & 22 skills (10043 points). 15 hours emulator practice and nearly 200 recorded console attempts. I think i don´t want touch with this level anymore or at least very soon. Even its could be improvement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxYV7am66k0

I have to thanks you guys help me a lot. Especially very big thanks Ccexplore who find more SNES version apply strategy That was still incredible difficult.:lemcat:

Only change compared DOS i used 3x12 & 8 build strategy. DOS replay use 3x12 & 7 build strategy. Both ways working, but just have use different pixels building when you perform slide glitch.

EDIT:
Where i can find mayhem 10 2 were lost solution replay? Im not founded it then when i trying. Its might my next project.

EDIT 2

Quote
Improved Taxing 4 to 13 skills.  I finally found a way to efficiently trigger sliding glitch for profit here, as well as found a better way to do the mining at the top so that less builders are needed to complete the path to exit.

Thanks to MASTER-88 for indirectly inspiring this.  The failure to adapt the former 14-skill DOS record solution (by Clam) to SNES spurred me to take another look at trying to use sliding glitch again, which I had always been aware was a possibility, but until now could never find a way to do it efficiently enough skill-wise here to beat Clam's record.  Also thanks to LemSteven, whose handling of Tricky 28 for this challenge thread directly inspired me the idea to try something vaguely similar here, for the builder that would trigger the glitch.

I'll discuss adapting this solution to SNES on MASTER-88's thread, but it looks possible even if some details might have to change slightly.

Finally watch your replay. Thats look awesome. Yeah can´t say much without testing this but its will definitely requires one more builder on SNES because this goal bug doesn´t work on SNES version. Its like similar as mayhem 30. Otherwise this seems very potential looking strategy. 14-15 skills might be theory possible on SNES which both are better than my record. Depend how this miner will working. Its just different on SNES version of the game.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 07:00:57 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #94 on: January 09, 2020, 09:13:14 AM »
Good job! :thumbsup: Honestly I don't remember whether anyone here actually ever tried executing a sliding glitch solution in any Lemmings levels on the real game.  I think everyone else had only done them in Lemmix, or in emulator for console versions, all with the help of savestates, framestepping, rewinds etc.  I've only tested the glitch itself on console emulators to verify the glitch works, not ever trying to execute a full solution in a real level.  You may be the first person in this forum to have successfully executed a real level solution using the glitch on the actual game, without any tool assists. 8-):thumbsup:

Where i can find mayhem 10 2 were lost solution replay? Im not founded it then when i trying. Its might my next project.

That one also uses sliding glitch, are you sure you want to deal with that now? :devil: At least for this level it all happens right at the start and you are only sliding 2 lemmings up.

As for missing replay, good question, looks like I actually can't find a copy of it on my current computer either, and the attachments may be lost on the old posts that first reported this result.  I might need to go look at old backups of my older computers to see if I can find either the replay or the screenshots to recreate it.  If anyone else can find a copy, please post.

I'd actually like to go look at this myself too, because I think we just took the originally reported DOS lose-2 solution (that doesn't care about skill counts) as the record, not sure we ever seriously review/audit the skill usage past the initial portion that uses the sliding glitch.  For all I know there could be some very obvious improvements lurking.

It needs to be mentioned that the timing/moves used on SNES to trigger the glitch for this level will be a bit different from DOS's, because the basher reaches one pixel farther on SNES compared to DOS, plus you can't change release rate while paused on SNES.  It's still the exact same skills used, but the release rate values and a few other details will differ, to the point that you cannot just copy the numbers from DOS solution.  I've tested the opening moves on SNES before and have written down the key release rate numbers for SNES somewhere, I really hope I can still find it.

(Taxing 4) Yeah can´t say much without testing this but its will definitely requires one more builder on SNES because this goal bug doesn´t work on SNES version. Its like similar as mayhem 30.

Actually it's different from Mayhem 30.  The hitbox of the exit is positioned in a way on DOS that (given where you can start mining nearby without using extra skills) actually doesn't work for that bug anyway, even on DOS.  Instead, the mining just barely misses the exit hitbox, resulting in a floor that misses the exit for both miner as well as walkers (unlike that bug, which lets walker exit while miner continues on).  Then later when you build in that area, the build bridge effectively raises the floor slightly upwards to barely meet the exit hitbox again, and so all the lemmings can then exit as a result.

If the SNES's exit hitbox reaches higher or lower compared to DOS, you may have to start mining earlier or later to compensate, but otherwise the solution does not rely on the "goal bug" and can hopefully work even on SNES without needing extra skills.  Though as you say, even 1 or 2 extra skills still beat the current record.

I've also played around with the solution a little more, and I've found ways to make it slightly less unforgiving (still very hard though) to execute:

- I've changed the use of blocker to instead use a builder to build over the hangman trap.  The advantage is that you don't have to worry about that trap anymore (ie. no more "I pray that no lemmings fall off the bridge while it's directly over the trap").  But doing it that way does create other complications elsewhere in the level unfortunately.

- The lemming that does the building to trigger sliding, as well as the lemming that gets slide up, are now both new lemmings coming out the entrance (30th and 34th respectively), and therefore the timing for triggering sliding is just a matter of release rate, and no longer also (as) sensitive to things like timing of skill assignment of basher, as like in the replay I posted.

It'll still be very difficult as almost every skill assignment must be done at exact locations, but less problematic than before.  Still untested though given the SNES miner differences.  I'll post a Lemmix replay later based on a slightly tweaked version of the level to better (but not perfectly, that's just impossible) imitate SNES version with its physics, to help show things like release rate changes and exact positions of various skill assignments as pertained to SNES.

I'll say definitely for first order of business for SNES, to test out the miners first on that level (just build normally through the spike traps on left to get a lemming up there so you can then test out the mining and building used in the sliding solution).

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #95 on: January 09, 2020, 05:39:03 PM »
Honestly I don't remember whether anyone here actually ever tried executing a sliding glitch solution in any Lemmings levels on the real game.

LemSteven got all his results in DOS Lemmings, and has even completed a playthrough of the entire game saving the maximum number.

 
Quote
As for missing replay, good question, looks like I actually can't find a copy of it on my current computer either, and the attachments may be lost on the old posts that first reported this result.  I might need to go look at old backups of my older computers to see if I can find either the replay or the screenshots to recreate it.  If anyone else can find a copy, please post.

This post has a replay. It's for the "what skills you need" challenge so it's focused on removing one blocker rather than full minimum-skills.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #96 on: January 09, 2020, 06:40:23 PM »
LemSteven got all his results in DOS Lemmings, and has even completed a playthrough of the entire game saving the maximum number.

Oh interesting, I know he only uses DOS Lemmings but I wasn't aware/didn't remember he ever did a playthrough of the entire game (and presumably doing so at a time after the sliding glitch solutions for Mayhem 2 and 10 are known).  Though now that you mentioned it I kinda feel like I remember reading about it before.
 
This post has a replay. It's for the "what skills you need" challenge so it's focused on removing one blocker rather than full minimum-skills.

I actually have that one but I strongly suspect it's not optimal for the total skill count.  I guess it's still good for the beginning portion of solution (other than the fact that it needs to be done differently on SNES due to physics differences).  In other words the replay would be same as the regular lose-2 DOS solution up to the point where a safe landing for the initial fall is ready.  I'm going to continue looking through my backups.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #97 on: January 09, 2020, 11:04:10 PM »
I actually have that one but I strongly suspect it's not optimal for the total skill count.

I finally found the original replay here (thanks geoo), though as it turns out, it actually isn't optimal for total skill count, the 1-blocker solution Proxima pointed out is apparently more optimal (by the saving of that one blocker).

The obvious thing to look at now for Mayhem 10, is to determine whether there's a way to set up the sliding + getting ready the safe landing in time, without using all 4 bashers in the process.  If we can save just one basher there, then we can explore routes that go through the ceiling, which will likely be more efficient skill-wise compared to all the building you'd have to do.  During the setup at the start, one basher is used purely for delay purpose, maybe it's worth seeing whether we can use the digger instead for that.

Again, note that on SNES the start had to be handled slightly differently compared to DOS.  I'm still searching for my notes on that.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #98 on: January 09, 2020, 11:20:47 PM »
If it turns out not possible to save one basher at the start, the other obvious area of improvement to explore would be to not do all that the building at the bottom of the initial area, it was only necessary because the original solution later led the lemmings down there.  The 1-blocker solution avoided that area but has inefficiencies stemming from the 1-blocker restriction, which we don't care for minimizing total skills count.  Just a quick look and I think I already see some simple potential new methods to test out, will try later tonight.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #99 on: January 10, 2020, 03:01:10 PM »
Quote
Good job! :thumbsup: Honestly I don't remember whether anyone here actually ever tried executing a sliding glitch solution in any Lemmings levels on the real game.  I think everyone else had only done them in Lemmix, or in emulator for console versions, all with the help of savestates, framestepping, rewinds etc.  I've only tested the glitch itself on console emulators to verify the glitch works, not ever trying to execute a full solution in a real level.  You may be the first person in this forum to have successfully executed a real level solution using the glitch on the actual game, without any tool assists. 8-):thumbsup:

Thanks. Im not sure am i first person. But at least this is only 100% youtube video with this level rightnow. And for sure there is no many persons in world who are making those max-% and max points solutions on console. At least youtube videos are usually normal solutions and completions. Richard Diaz aka lemmingsmaster did some real console youtube videos especially sunsoft special 2 100%, probably hardest challenge solutions ever done on lemmings. Contains 40 pixel perfect timings in one row.

Quote
That one also uses sliding glitch, are you sure you want to deal with that now? :devil: At least for this level it all happens right at the start and you are only sliding 2 lemmings up.

I think i´ll need recovery my brains, mind and my body couple days after mayhem 2 100% completion.:lem-mindblown: But its quickly look all easy levels is max pointed and only sliding glitch levels are remain.;) So i have to be ready consistent my skills with sliding glitch.

Quote
I finally found the original replay here (thanks geoo), though as it turns out, it actually isn't optimal for total skill count, the 1-blocker solution Proxima pointed out is apparently more optimal (by the saving of that one blocker).

The obvious thing to look at now for Mayhem 10, is to determine whether there's a way to set up the sliding + getting ready the safe landing in time, without using all 4 bashers in the process.  If we can save just one basher there, then we can explore routes that go through the ceiling, which will likely be more efficient skill-wise compared to all the building you'd have to do.  During the setup at the start, one basher is used purely for delay purpose, maybe it's worth seeing whether we can use the digger instead for that.

Again, note that on SNES the start had to be handled slightly differently compared to DOS.  I'm still searching for my notes on that.

Thanks you got find this replay. Just quickly watch this replay and its look pretty damn hard and really quick reflex required. I have to looking its more better before i start attempts.

Quote
Again, note that on SNES the start had to be handled slightly differently compared to DOS.  I'm still searching for my notes on that

What you mean about this when you talking about its will bit different on SNES than DOS. I´ll definitely need more information with this if this level requires some version differences?



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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #100 on: January 10, 2020, 10:45:41 PM »
Quote
Again, note that on SNES the start had to be handled slightly differently compared to DOS.  I'm still searching for my notes on that

What you mean about this when you talking about its will bit different on SNES than DOS. I'll definitely need more information with this if this level requires some version differences?

Specifically the following differences:

1) The SNES basher reaches one pixel farther, so in order to create the 1-pixel dent at the thin vertical column as seen in the DOS replay, on SNES you have to start the basher one pixel more to the left compared to DOS.  This in turn will cause the lemming to lay 3 bricks instead of 2 when you assign him builder after the dent is created.  As a result it throws off the timing of various things, and you need to adjust the release rate changes accordingly to compensate.

2) The DOS replay has a sharp release rate change from 3 to 47 after first lemming out, followed by 47 back down to 1 after second lemming out.  The first change is barely doable on SNES but the second change definitely is not doable on SNES (because the third lemming comes out much sooner after second lemming, due to the release rate having changed to 47).

When I tested on SNES years ago, I believe I ended up with a different method (for setting up sliding glitch) that wound up looking vaguely similar to this replay I just posted last night (an improvement to the former DOS record), although I don't think I used a digger on SNES (but I guess you could if you want), I seem to remember I still used basher for delay purpose.  The important thing is having more attainable release rate changes for SNES.

I too could use a break.  I'll continue try to finding you the correct numbers/timings to use on SNES, but maybe only after the weekend is over.

But its quickly look all easy levels is max pointed and only sliding glitch levels are remain.;) So i have to be ready consistent my skills with sliding glitch.

Mayhem 10 and Taxing 4 are the only two levels left where the current DOS record uses sliding glitch.  Sliding glitch had also been explored previously for Taxing 27 and Mayhem 26, but in both cases failed (so far) to produce a better record in terms of fewest total skills used to save most lemmings.  But there were also a few levels here and there where I still need to test out adopting parts of DOS solutions to SNES, I have to go back to the post I made for comparing SNES and DOS.  But it's fair to say there is likely nothing easy left at this point, sliding glitch or no.

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2020, 10:38:42 AM »
Quote
mproved Mayhem 10 to 29 skills.  This may be the first time we've looked at this level specifically for this challenge, as opposed to just taking an existing solution from one of the other challenges.

One obvious thing to explore is ceiling route, but that turns out actually not great, the shape of the ceiling really works against you forcing you to use more builders than you'd like, plus it also costs a lot of builders to set up, at the upper area only, a holding system for the crowd--especially since the ceiling route takes up a basher, so you don't even have enough leftover skills to use 2 blockers (and still be able to free them both), you can only use 1 blocker.  My testing seems to show that any ceiling route solution would end up using either all builders or at best maybe 1 less than all.

So instead, the improved solution here is yet another floor route building to the right exit, like the other two lose-2 solutions previously presented.

I'm still wondering whether maybe it's worth trying to use sliding glitch twice, the second time to slide the crowd up from bottom of the exit-holding pillar.  From the one-blocker solution, we know there's one natural place that can be easily used to compress the crowd without using a second blocker (that you won't have enough skills left to free).  But it takes multiple builders to later release the crowd from that location, which may well cancel out trying to use less builders by using sliding glitch.

This new route is a lot better than old, but its still seems those releaserate changes are too much and its register some little bit wrong.  So i think we have to modify some things on SNES version where you can´t change releaserate when you are paused.

However this is still very close one. If we can succesfully modify some things its might are possible make perfect slide glitch.

Its extremely complicated, because many things happen in same time. Basher, builder, floater and then drop releaserate 24 to 1. Its seems 3rd lemmings come out higher than 1 releaserate and thats is enought ruin slideglitch.

EDIT:
Couple other difference is here too.
1: Because you have to bash and build one pixel too left than DOS version its will requires 3 build brick until its turn lemmings. (DOS version its build two ones and turn
2: Also this digger will not turn left to right when you take it.  Looking DOS video this digger just turn when it hit the metal of bottom. Thats not happen on SNES.

So this look we have to look many things and changes some more SNES version apply. Testing slide glitch with one lemming only and its working well. ;)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 11:13:44 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #102 on: January 11, 2020, 01:30:57 PM »
Testing taxing 4 DOS route my SNES emulator. Its really seems this miner working quite well like DOS. Also goal bug working well in this level. Its doesn´t work mayhem 30

I did couple videos
Miner pixel 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUxcwJtLRTw
Miner pixel 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1DKzzh8vSc
Goal bug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_UPrU3zYBw

But otherwise we probably have plan this strategy little bit different. Thats look lemmings come out Bit different on DOS version than SNES version. Its might changes some place make sliding glitch or releaserate manipulations. But otherwise this DOS route seems working very well on SNES version. No trouble with miners.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 01:40:17 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2020, 07:21:55 AM »
Mayhem 10 jump come very close rightnow. I have to change some pixels between 1-2 lemmings.  Digger is pointless on SNES version, because its doesn,t work like DOS version (see my post upper)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwJ2VfSkQOI

Still make somethings little bit wrong. This is best compression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQcf87eRRUk

EDIT
Okay i see what i doing wrong video 2. I make basher little bit wrong timing and its make perfect compression, but thats look then you can´t make slide glitch itself, so its look i have reject this method. Video 1 i did this basher, builder correct and its make jump, but just only one lemmings. But its still looks i can´t make anything else better.

I just test out nearly alll releaserates between 26-15, but its not seems matter very much. I think i´ll need some more help. DOS video doesnt help a much because there is too much version differences compared SNES one. Mention upper post. I think i have to use video 1 method, because its correct slideglitch, but there is very limited amount things and time compress. I have to drop releaserate back to 1 so test higher than 26 releaserate seems pretty pointless IMO.

But its fact i really suck releaserate manipulations.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 09:46:01 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #104 on: January 13, 2020, 04:20:11 AM »
Finally managed perfect mayhem 10 jump without digger on SNES version

Perfect compression
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVrwwKCWrfc

Perfect jump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsK3LGXvruw

I have to check out some things better and increase my consistent. LOL thats take me many hours even figured out this.

I´ll make compression video as well. Its just look some floater timings and quick releaserate manipulations. Also im not are test did more than 2 lemming die. So i have to test it too.

Thatd idea pretty much like DOS. Using 26 releaserate when starting. Drop 24 and then drop 24 to 1 before 2nd lemmings landing. You can see it in video.

EDIT:
Thats seems we got another trouble. Its let one build brick remain before 3rd falling to death. So its look i have to check out some things out better. Thats piss off its so close working.:devil:

Just DAMN. Thats really can´t fixed here one gap remain video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzNCRYQWnZE

So i have to look whole fucking level over again. Nothing can make lemmings working faster even its let one gap.

Okay i have to keep some rest rightnow. My brains seems overaloaded rightnow. How ever i did extremely good progress. Its sad because its depend one single gap.:forehead: But rightnow i can´t find idea how can solved this. I think i have to make compress and jump little bit faster. Its probably requires some changes. All tips are welcomed.???
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 06:30:23 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #105 on: January 13, 2020, 11:27:55 AM »
As I said, I needed to take a break this weekend.  I'm back.

The method in your videos isn't fast enough compared to DOS, for two key reasons:

1) You let the 3rd lemming out float much longer than minimum.  Since you can't start the sliding until at least after he lands, the later he lands, the less time you've left to get the safe landing ready.  The 3rd lemming out should ideally be assigned floater at last second.

2) In your method, the 3rd lemming out ends up the one that would build to trigger sliding.  In contrast, the DOS solution has the 2nd lemming out wound up ahead of the 1st lemming out, while the 3rd lemming out, upon landing, merges with the 1st (and those two gets slide up).  The 2nd lemming does the building to trigger the glitch.  This ends up faster because by the time 3rd lemming lands, the 2nd lemming is already ahead of him, and therefore can get to the column and start building sooner.

I think you will need to find a way to set up sliding that follows the two points above, in order to maximize the amount of time you have to get the safe landing ready.

I did not have a chance yet to dig out old backups to try to find my notes on the SNES release rate/timing information.  Will see if maybe I can get to it later today.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2020, 02:59:05 PM »
Quote
In your method, the 3rd lemming out ends up the one that would build to trigger sliding.  In contrast, the DOS solution has the 2nd lemming out wound up ahead of the 1st lemming out, while the 3rd lemming out, upon landing, merges with the 1st (and those two gets slide up).  The 2nd lemming does the building to trigger the glitch.  This ends up faster because by the time 3rd lemming lands, the 2nd lemming is already ahead of him, and therefore can get to the column and start building sooner.

Okay i see my problem thanks. I totally overlooked this because my all focus was just make perfect compression and im not figured out that 2nd lemmings will be ahead.

So we have to compress 1 & 3 lemmings and 2nd lemming make glitch.  Its sounds easy in theory.  I also overlooked DOS digger already. Its look when its comeout sametime as floater so its look just weird. However im not still never make succesfully compression using digger. I probably have look some things again.

But its seems its most important take 3rd lemming floater much more close to land and make focus how compress 1 & 3 lemmings and 2nd lemmings hav to space much enought perform glitch. But its fact i can´t copy DOS method perfectly because basher have to take longer distance and its requires 3 build brick. But i have to manipulate 1 & 2 floaters and make all focus with this. Not sure will releaserate like DOS working, but let see.

EDIT:
Looking DOS strategy little bit better, but i find so much techincal trouble and its will be really hard fixed those alls on SNES.

1: 3 build brick confused me so much. DOS can turn lemming with two ones.
2: Its seems DOS releaserate is way too high and cannot drop it fast enought when im unpaused.  Thats make it impossible compress 1 & 3 lemmings.
3: Rightnow its not come even close make DOS method working. Its will requires huge changes compress 1 & 3.

EDIT:
My method yesterdays compress 1 & 2 look really working, but like you said its not quick enought save falling lemmings. How ever working SNES method could be more like this, but 3rd floater timer have to be lower than my video. So that requires some manipulations with 1 & 2.

But rightnow my ideas started are empty. I´ll back if i got more information or figured out something which could work.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 05:13:59 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #107 on: January 13, 2020, 10:50:38 PM »
Mayhem 10
Another jump method. This make two brick, but thats seems some potential rightnow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkU0tnq4jk

I´ll look out how this could work.

EDIT:
Yeah this method working.:thumbsup: Two lemmings lost. Its will little bit change level itself like this climber. I have to looking other things better.

EDIT:
Here it is 97% (73/75 saved) Confirmed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiHIYiw1Qic

I have to make some research and start real console attempts. But yeah that was brutal like Mayhem 2. A lot pixel timings everywhere. Im done it.8-) And i confrim it. But yeah its will requires a lot research how i did those releaserates with starting. IIRC. I did it pretty much same way as DOS. Only change come when i break this wall and take slide glitch building back.

HERE is whole tutorial. Its save even one more builder than first attempt
Mayhem 10 73/75 (97% guide). I did it in 5 parts. Next i have make this all hard in one go my console.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gIBHU4L8nQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaO9Zhi5lFY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbSceZyu1cQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkyyUAzfb3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-JFGSmNg4
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 12:05:48 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 3.1.2020.
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2020, 03:10:11 AM »
Here it is. Mayhem 10 Pillar of Hercules 9707 points (2 lemmings lost and 30 skills used)
I did this my real SNES console system and yeah thats take me 4 hours attempts. Super hard level. Its use pretty much DOS route, but i have to change its little bit because basher working different. I accidentally got find perfect basher strategy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAlivB86dMA

Really happy with this.:thumbsup: Just counted this take me 142 failed console attempts. Its bit less than Boiler Room, but still a lot.

EDIT:
-Have to say. We are making really good progress and very big thanks Ccexplore who are help me a lot improve my records. Here is few levels remain yet.
Taxing 4 might my next progress. I look those miners working very well and also goal bug so if we can perform slide glitch 13 skills might are very possible on SNES. Here is still much troubles, because lemmings coming very different vs DOS and SNES. I personally not managed that slide completely on SNES, but its might requires more looking.

-DOS players might try confirm my Mayhem 1 27 skills solution. I am pretty sure its will working on DOS version too. I quickly look this level on DOS and there not seems are much version differences.

-About mayhem 6 9 skills could be probably theory possible on SNES, but its fact you can´t releaserated sharp like DOS. So this will be really hard progress.

BTW im also interested see just a minute levels replays. At least Just a minute part one. DOS 2 skills vs SNES 4 skills. I think 2 is definitely impossible on SNES, but how about 3 skills?

« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 10:27:48 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 14.1.2020.
« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2020, 08:12:12 PM »
Good job on Mayhem 10! :thumbsup: I may actually need to look at the level for DOS again, I know the variation you used to setup sliding is possible but have not yet explored it in detail for DOS, looks like it may also help improve the record for DOS, or at least provide improvements to one of the other DOS challenges for this level.

Taxing 4 might my next progress. I look those miners working very well and also goal bug so if we can perform slide glitch 13 skills might are very possible on SNES. Here is still much troubles, because lemmings coming very different vs DOS and SNES. I personally not managed that slide completely on SNES, but its might requires more looking.

I have attached a tweaked version of the level for Lemmix that works a little closer to SNES, and also a 13-skill solution replay for that version that incorporated the execution improvements mentioned in a previous post.  To view the replay using the tweaked version of level instead of DOS original, download the 0304.lvl file into same folder as the LemmixPlayer.exe, then in the main menu, press F4 and then use the "3" key on the keyboard to toggle the "look for LVL files" settings to ON (and then press ESC to go back to main menu).  This would tell LemmixPlayer to load 0304.lvl for Taxing 4 instead of the original version.  I've added an animated flag to the tweaked version of level, on the right outside of the main area of level; you can look for that flag to confirm it is the tweaked version of level that was loaded into Lemmix.

The main differences addressed by tweak version of level is to move the entrances slightly so the lemmings come out exactly same places as on SNES (otherwise they come out a pixel further right on SNES as compared to DOS), and also to fix the order in which lemmings come out so that it is SNES's left-right-left-right, instead of DOS's left-right-right-left.  It cannot account for the SNES basher reaching one pixel further, so on actual SNES you need to compensate for that, by making the lemming that digs and bashes start digging one pixel further left than depicted in Lemmix replay.

The release rate changes is to change to 54 after 8th lemming comes out, and then to 56 after 32nd lemming comes out.  (Around the time of 32nd lemming out is also when you soon needed to assign builder to 30th lemming, so you can use that as a reference for when to change to 56.)  The 30th lemming that comes out will end up doing the building that eventually triggers sliding glitch, and 34th lemming out will get slid up.  You must use that 30th lemming to ensure correct timing; track it by eye as soon as it comes out so you can tell it is that lemming (and not someone else) when it reaches the exact spot it needs to build from.  Almost all of the builders used in the solution must be placed pixel-perfect locations, including where you assign builder to 30th lemming (which may be a little hard to see in the replay since it's so close to the basher at that moment).

While this method avoids the problems with the hangman trap, there are still two small timing elements to be aware of:

1) On the left at the start where you turn the digger to a basher, you should assign the basher more on the late side, after lemming has dug down 9 times but before the 10th time.  This slight delay in making the assignment plays out later when you assign the 30th lemming out the builder, near where the basher also is at that time.  The goal is for the basher's stroke to take out parts of the bridge started by that 30th lemming, so that other lemmings will go under the bridge instead of on it.  That way they can actually reach the step that they can do sliding from.  If basher is assigned too early, not enough of the first brick of the bridge will be taken out, and other lemmings would just end up walking on top of the bridge, and cannot do sliding.

It is unfortunate this timing remains, but it should be slightly more forgiving compared to original DOS replay using the blocker, where the timing of the basher assignment also directly affects the timing of successfully sliding up 34th lemming out and would need to be frame-perfect.

2) Although you no longer have the danger of the hangman trap, near the end where you build up to the ceiling slope created by miner, if you have bad timing, some lemmings may get stuck at the moment the last build brick is laid down that touches the lower boundary of the ceiling there.  This is a much smaller time window of danger compared with building over the hangman trap like in the original DOS solution, but it means you still have to be a little careful in when you assign that builder, to avoid hitting the bad timing.

About mayhem 6 9 skills could be probably theory possible on SNES, but its fact you can´t releaserated sharp like DOS. So this will be really hard progress.

BTW im also interested see just a minute levels replays. At least Just a minute part one. DOS 2 skills vs SNES 4 skills. I think 2 is definitely impossible on SNES, but how about 3 skills?

After some more analysis with Mayhem 6, my tentative conclusion is that the release rate changes in DOS solution are essential.  It is what creates enough distance between the digger and the crowd, so that the crowd doesn't overtake the digger before he has dug down far enough (and he has to do that digging further right than usual so that the steel [metal] can stop the digging).  Since those sharp release rate changes are not doable on SNES, you may instead be forced to leave the release rate pretty low throughout the solution, in which case you may end up running out of time (and then you may still have problem creating enough distance for the digger, now that you are much more restricted in what release rate values you could be using).  So at the moment I suspect it will be impossible to adapt DOS solution for Mayhem 6 to SNES.  If there is a 9-skill solution on SNES, it would likely look quite different from the current DOS one.

As for Just a Minute parts 1 and 2, looks like the Lemmix replay attachments were lost so I've added them here.  I'm pretty sure they cannot work on SNES.  The SNES timer runs down faster such that when on DOS/Lemmix it still says about 7 seconds left, on SNES you are already out of time.  The DOS solutions all have only maybe 1-3 seconds left on the timer if I recall correctly.  Also their sharp release rate changes are pretty essential I think.  I haven't analyzed thoroughly but I think those solutions implicitly rely on leaving the release rate mostly at 99, so that all the lemmings can come out well before the basher has gotten far enough to the right.  On SNES you can change release rate to 99 okay, but then you can't change it back down sharply to a lower number at those strategic times like you see in the DOS solutions, that are done specifically to avoid bad timings observed for specific lemmings.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 14.1.2020.
« Reply #110 on: January 16, 2020, 06:51:20 AM »
Thanks new infromations ccexplore. I start some more serious attempts taxing 4 and look your LemmixSNEStest lrb replay frame by frame and looking can this match on real SNES system.

Im not are make working it yet. Not sure what i do wrong or is there more version differences or did i have change some more setups. At least i pick up one little difference, im not sure will this change anything about timing at end when i attempt sliding.

But i tested digger-basher difference. On SNES system you have to take this basher one pixel later than Lemmix. Otherwise this picture setup will hit with metal pillar of the middle level on SNES version. Its might change some pixel timings at end and buildings. I really test many things when i attempts sliding, but not are find correct way yet. This picture is correct spot on Lemmix, but you have to make it one pixel/step later on SNES version avoiding hittin metal.

Oteheswise this starting setup look very similar pixels. Im not still are correctly make sliding. I´ll might back and look around this better, because there is some minor chances im overlooked some little bit.

EDIT:
More testing, but seems some steps come wrong. I just make all focus lemmings number 30 and his steps behind basher. Its look steps happen little bit different on lemmix replay than SNES. Im not sure is this basher reason. I have to take it one pixel later because SNES version required it to bash under metal pillar. But it seems i have to change some setups and spots little bit. Probably even releaserating. I´ll keep trying if i could make somethings better.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 08:29:51 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2020, 09:11:00 AM »
Its time to analyze some more version difference between lemmix and SNES and its might explain why i cannot make slide glitch with lemmix setup.

9 Gap building and turning over first trap. (its very different pixel and its might change things before sliding)

EDIT:
Attempt to slide 8 gap trap setup. Im also try 9 gap trap setup, but then lemmings steps seems going wrong. Probably have look more better reason with this.

But no luck. But 30 lemmings step look correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW3KxSxpwdI
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 09:59:07 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 14.1.2020.
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2020, 10:14:55 AM »
But i tested digger-basher difference. On SNES system you have to take this basher one pixel later than Lemmix. Otherwise this picture setup will hit with metal pillar of the middle level on SNES version.

If you are talking about the metal in the middle separating the left and right sides, I just tested on SNES emulator and bashing underneath that is working fine, basher does not get stopped by any metal.  Just like in Lemmix replay, you need to dig down 9 times (ie. the dig pit will be 9 pixels in height) before bashing.  But, as I also emphasized multiple times, on SNES you must start digging one pixel more to the left of where you see in Lemmix replay, which would mean the digger on SNES would actually take out a tiny bit of the metal left of him when he started digging.  If you don't start digging in the right place, the basher will not be creating the "dent" for sliding at the right place later.  The dent must line up exactly with the leftmost vertical column of pixels of metal (of the metal block to the right of the hangman trap).

I really don't see how your basher is getting stopped by the metal separating left and right sides, nor how that would even be affected merely by shifting the digging/bashing left or right.  Or maybe I just don't know what you are trying to tell me.  If you are still having the problem, please show me a video of the problem happening.

The basher's stroke takes out pixels of land over several frames.  The first frame that does that will create a 1-pixel dent, but that actually won't work for sliding here (the step leading up to the dent is too short in height).  The next frame of the basher will create a 2-pixel dent (they will appear gray in color, coming from the non-land pixels of the hangman trap) that does work for sliding here.  So make sure you assign builder to the basher at the correct time.

The 30th lemming out that will start building near where the basher is, don't line him up based on where basher is (since on SNES the basher will be 1 pixel more to the left compared to Lemmix), line him up using the pattern of pixels in the ground, and match the position exactly as in Lemmix for that builder assigned to 30th lemming.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2020, 10:29:40 AM »
Its time to analyze some more version difference between lemmix and SNES and its might explain why i cannot make slide glitch with lemmix setup.

I cannot figure out what you are trying to tell me with those pictures. ??? Maybe a video would explain things better?

The build bridge over the hangman trap (built by 2nd lemming out) is solely to keep any lemmings from getting killed by that trap, and serves no other purpose.  The exact position of that bridge doesn't need to be pixel-perfect to where you see in Lemmix, but the bridge should start more to the left (ie. don't start it too close to the trap), to avoid the 30th lemming out bumping his head on that bridge while he is trying to build his own bridge (the one that would eventually trigger sliding).

The build bridge by 30th lemming that eventually triggers sliding, is started at the bottom of the basher tunnel, so I'm not sure what you are doing with those pictures, I don't see the basher tunnel in them. ???

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2020, 10:44:34 AM »
Im not even know where i have trouble. But my main trouble is lemming doensn´t go to slide and exactly not know reason and can,t solved it. I just try explain it myself first. Those pictures just explain some things which goes different lemmix than Snes emulator. Not even know is there any matter about it. But its might changes some things and steps. Can´t know.

Another short video clip trying  sliding. Its still going wrong. And yeah lemmings 30 is always used when attempt to slide. Also releaserates is changed correctly, but its not still matter. I think i did some wrong in level. Thats why i pictured things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoT1XX_L0gs
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 10:49:44 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2020, 11:14:09 AM »
It looks to me like you started your basher much too far to the right in that video.  The dent he creates goes way past the leftmost vertical column of metal block.  The dent cannot be that far right, otherwise when builder tries to build to seal up the dent (which is 2 pixels in height, and thus needs 2 build bricks to seal up), builder will stop building after laying down brick that fills just 1 of the 2 pixels, due to the check for ceiling.  If you see the Lemmix replay, the dent created is barely visible, lines up perfectly with leftmost column of metal block,  and is gray in color (the latter due to some non-land pixels from the graphics of the hangman trap).

If possible, please make the video start all the way from the beginning when the level just fades in.  Like in this video, I think your basher started wrong, but I can't confirm because assigning the basher is not included in the video.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2020, 11:41:18 AM »
Quote
If possible, please make the video start all the way from the beginning when the level just fades in.  Like in this video, I think your basher started wrong, but I can't confirm because assigning the basher is not included in the video.

I just did slide glitch correctly using lemmix. I have to check out match my solution just my SNES. I´ll make SNES video for you if this not match. Then there is probably some version differences between lemmix and Snes emulator.

But its possible i am overlooked somethings already. Be right back.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2020, 12:17:32 PM »
Quote
If possible, please make the video start all the way from the beginning when the level just fades in.  Like in this video, I think your basher started wrong, but I can't confirm because assigning the basher is not included in the video.

Okay here is basher video
And thats really look i did it exactly same spot as lemmix, but something happen while bashing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3Ha5Cyuc0c

Its really look version difference between SNES and Lemmix emulator. Thats why i got some pictures already. Steps going bit different and i alrdeady did it succesfully done on lemmix.

Here is part two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mNjs7Hg4T0
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 12:27:26 PM by MASTER-88 »
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
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Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #118 on: January 16, 2020, 07:00:08 PM »
The video confirms that you started bashing too far to the right.  I kind of hate that you are making me do all this, but attached here is picture of where you should start digging on SNES.  It is one pixel more to the left compared to the Lemmix replay, to compensate for basher difference.  I also attached a picture of what the dent made by basher (that the 30th lemming's building eventually seals up to trigger sliding) should look like on SNES, the dent circled in light blue.  Those two things are different in your video.

Where you start bashing matters because while it doesn't require pixel-perfect timing, the solution is still relying on the basher being very close to the 30th lemming when 30th lemming starts to build.  So there is a timing relation between the basher and the 30th lemming, and changing where you started bashing will affect that.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #119 on: January 16, 2020, 10:14:50 PM »
Okay this digger picture actually show you dig 2 pixel behind than lemmix. Then its look basher bash correct spot at end, but thats 30 lemmings build still wrong. Its build 7 gap and its required 8 gap make slide.

But however make digger one or two pixel more left than lemmix its still doesn´t make me sliding. Attempts both setups and pixels several times. My best attempt was just stuck one lemming into metal. I don´t know reason and can´t make even emulator videos anymore.

Some unknow reason my emulator AVI recorder started crash my emulator over and over so i can´t make emulator videos before i fixed this trouble. No recorded problems before. I guess this computer make some fucking updates and thats make it crash.

Seriously this level started make me more angry than any other slide glitch levels already.:devil: And its not even that hard trick to make with lemmix setups.

Be right back when emulator recording working and its easier look what fuck i still do wrong or did this trick even possible on SNES.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #120 on: January 16, 2020, 11:14:33 PM »
Okay i got AVI recorder working again. Four last videos

Quote
It is one pixel more to the left compared to the Lemmix replay, to compensate for basher difference.  I also attached a picture of what the dent made by basher (that the 30th lemming's building eventually seals up to trigger sliding) should look like on SNES, the dent circled in light blue.  Those two things are different in your video.

This your picture seems its dig two pixel more left compared lemmix. But however i test both not make correct sliding.
Digger/Basher one pixel left than lemmix;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xscvntn1xRo
Sliding attempt to same setup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU7g8ytR7cw

Digger/Basher two pixel left compared lemmix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9BKYKTbc1E
Slidin attempt to same setup (2 pixel left) Its seem stuck sliding lemmings into metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtaGC2GTSsc
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 11:21:46 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #121 on: January 16, 2020, 11:27:42 PM »
Okay this digger picture actually show you dig 2 pixel behind than lemmix.

If that's what it looks like for you, I wonder if maybe you are not looking at the correct level or replay in Lemmix.  You need to be looking at the 0304.lvl level, which amongst other things has an animated waving flag object added to the right of the level (to help distinguish from the original), and you also need to use the replay whose filename has "SNESTest" in it, instead of the original one I posted for the 13-skill DOS record.  You must use F4 in the main menu to go to the settings menu that allows you to toggle "look for LVL files", in order to make Lemmix load the level from that file instead of using the original official version from DOS.

If you don't see the added waving flag object in the level, then you are using the wrong level to play back the replay with.  I wouldn't expect the solution to play out correctly in that case though, so I don't know what to say.  Did you actually verify that the replay successfully saved everyone?  You can press Spacebar key a few times in Lemmix to skip forward to the end and see how many % saved.  If it doesn't say 100%, then your setup in Lemmix is incorrect.

Make sure you performed the two release rate changes:  from 50 to 54 after 8th lemming comes out, and from 54 to 56 after 32nd lemming comes out (which is also around the time you assign builder to 30th lemming).

If you end up with 1 lemming stuck into metal, that means lemming arrived too soon.  If that lemming is the 34th lemming out, maybe you can try and see what happens if you skip the 54->56 release rate change, which would put him 1 step behind.

Hope you can fix the problem with video recording soon.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #122 on: January 16, 2020, 11:45:17 PM »
Quote
If you don't see the added waving flag object in the level, then you are using the wrong level to play back the replay with.

Yeah i am loading correct level. Just flag object rightside.

Quote
Hope you can fix the problem with video recording soon.

Yes its fixed. Its seems some mystery problem have to reupload emulator again and then its not going crash that much. Make 4 videos upper.

Quote
If you end up with 1 lemming stuck into metal, that means lemming arrived too soon.  If that lemming is the 34th lemming out, maybe you can try and see what happens if you skip the 54->56 release rate change, which would put him 1 step behind.

So this are close one. Its happen video where i command digger & basher two more pixel left than lemmix replay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtaGC2GTSsc

I´ll test that next. Just keep releaserate 54 whole level after 8th lemmings come out. Its really look that was just 34 lemmings which got stuck. So this look its come really close one.;P
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 11:55:47 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #123 on: January 17, 2020, 12:07:14 AM »
In your second video (not the one you just posted, the second one of two in your earlier post), you stopped the basher one frame too soon.  As I explained, you need to stop it one frame later so that the dent created is 2 pixels tall rather than just 1 pixel.  Everything else in that video looks good I think.

It makes a lot more sense had there not been annoying exposed graphics from the hangman trap obscuring the actual land pixels near that area.  The land shape is wrong if you stopped the basher one frame too early, you'll see a dent but it is not coming off of a tall enough step.  On the next frame the dent will become 2 pixels tall, and more importantly will have a tall enough step leading up to it.

[edit: just to be crystal clear, this is the video I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtaGC2GTSsc)

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #124 on: January 17, 2020, 07:57:19 AM »
Quote
In your second video (not the one you just posted, the second one of two in your earlier post), you stopped the basher one frame too soon.  As I explained, you need to stop it one frame later so that the dent created is 2 pixels tall rather than just 1 pixel.  Everything else in that video looks good I think.

It makes a lot more sense had there not been annoying exposed graphics from the hangman trap obscuring the actual land pixels near that area.  The land shape is wrong if you stopped the basher one frame too early, you'll see a dent but it is not coming off of a tall enough step.  On the next frame the dent will become 2 pixels tall, and more importantly will have a tall enough step leading up to it.

[edit: just to be crystal clear, this is the video I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtaGC2GTSsc)

Few hours a today just spending try testing pixels using this video setup which look like most correctly. Not even know am i just noob or unlucky, but any earlie basher cancel not are helping me sliding

But this setup consistent locking 34 lemmings through the metal, so i also test different releaserating, but no one are making slidin succesfully. This show and look i did most of the things like i have to do and "crystalclear" setup is used too. Also different timing cancel bashing is test out too.

Well have to keep going attempts. I think its have to very close if this are possible.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #125 on: January 17, 2020, 09:30:22 AM »
Few more videos about basher cancel only.There is only one setup where you can lock one. My emulator still love crash when i recorded so i´ll keep videos short. Just alla focus basher cancel, because its seems its going wrong yesterdays.

Locking but not sliding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2-McTIxH7g

One pixel later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSL_LMRTtzI

Two pixel later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x4sd7vTkac
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #126 on: January 17, 2020, 10:07:03 AM »
Your videos are too blurry, I cannot really see the pixel-level details.  I actually can't really tell the difference between the first two videos for example (ie. the "locking..." and "one pixel later" videos), in terms of what the basher ends up making when you stopped him with assigning builder.  The blurriness might be youtube's fault though, I don't know.  You said your emulator uses AVI recorder, so usually that means it should preserve individual pixels and not blur anything out.

If you put the emulator AVI video files into ZIP files, maybe they are then small enough to attach here?  Maybe if I play the AVI video files directly on my computer instead of viewing them on youtube, I can then see the individual pixels without any blurriness.

Or you can make screenshots to show what the basher makes for each of your above 3 attempts, so I can compare with how it looks in the Lemmix replay.  Your previous screenshots (a few posts back) have no blurriness, they just didn't show the important things I wanted to look at.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #127 on: January 17, 2020, 10:45:17 AM »
I did take my pictures my camera. Thats emulator doesn´t allow me take pictures rightnow. But i got very qualitys pictures my camera.

Just three next pixel

Picture 1:
This is right setup cancel basher and make 34th lemming through into steel (you can see it videos too) however 34 lemmings stay into steel and not start sliding.

Picutre 2 Show setup One pixel later and basher cancel can,t make slide happen
Picture 3  Show next pixel setup and also nothings slide happen when i cancel basher.

Show setup 1 seems only working looking pixel but you told me yesterday:

Quote
you stopped the basher one frame too soon.  As I explained, you need to stop it one frame later so that the dent created is 2 pixels tall rather than just 1 pixel.  Everything else in that video looks good I think.

So those pictures 2 & 3 show next pixels and sliding still can´t happen.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #128 on: January 17, 2020, 11:28:04 AM »
Ok, with the pictures, I also see that your 30th lemming started building one pixel left of the correct location.  Below's what it looks like in Lemmix, with lines added to show lemming's location by lining up with the pattern of pixels in the ground below.  (Click on the picture below so it's zoomed in and you can better see the lines I added.)  If you compare that with your "picture 2", you will see that your picture 2 has that same builder one pixel more to the left compared to Lemmix.  This means in your "picture 2", that lemming should've walked 1 pixel more before being assigned builder to start building, in order to match Lemmix.

So try "picture 2" again but fix where your 30th lemming is building, leave the release rates changes the same (54 after 8th, 56 after 32nd).  See if that works.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #129 on: January 17, 2020, 12:52:49 PM »
I am sorry, but this is probably first time to say i want really give up this. Just seems nothing works make sliding on SNES. I fixed some situations like those pictures and looking frames one by one, but its little bit show this level design is little bit different than lemmix and i personally cannot make anythings fixed that trouble. I am probably just noob or too stupid. No idea.

I just got 34 lemmings just go only stuck and i really can´t explain that any better. I really want proof and confirmed this on SNES but rightnow its seems thats simply too complicated and hard for me. Im not even sure might this even working on SNES. Did anyone completed this sliding on real SNES version? Or am i first who attempted it?

I personally did it correctly in lemmix flag marked level, but no hope make it on SNES emulator. Somereason this end goes more or less wrong.

I probably can´t confirm this. Probably ccexplore could make it correct. But rightnow im just fucking piss off whole level.:evil:
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #130 on: January 18, 2020, 10:08:18 AM »
Have to keep break attempted taxing 4 sliding because i burn out myself with this and no luck make this.

But i just confirmed Mayhem 2 100% & 20 skills solutions on SNES. Its 2 points/2 skills improve my console record.
But i make it just emulator. That might really hard task make on console. I just have to look all correct frames with builders and wavers (lemmix called shruggers). This level contains just 4 waver/shrugger animations. This first one is just  quick continue build. But 2, 3 & 4 have to be take correct frame like DOS video. Here is same frame rules on SNES, but just some steps going differents in level. So its requires some matching.

Its seems nearly impossible make those timings correct on console, but i got find pretty good mnemonic which might can uses on console attempts:
Just don´t watch shrugger lemming. Just look at exit when flame eyes flashing (there is just 6 different flash animation one per each frame). That mnemonic might make it on console possible without tool assist, how ever its still will be insanely hard push all frames correct without tool assists. But its might still worth trying. Its use same frame rules as DOS, but flashes going different time than lemming walking on SNES.

Here is emu proof picture 20 skills mayhem 2 10045 points. Let see can i make this crazy effort on console in future.  I think i have to redo my consistent yet.


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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #131 on: January 21, 2020, 02:33:39 PM »
Mayhem 2 The Boiler Room 10046 points on console condition.
100% saved & 19 skills used

3 points improvement my previous console record and this also beat my TAS record with one point. I really not think aim 19 skills solution on console im not even know its possible but that accidentally happen when i attempted 20 skills around 8 hours.

This was HELL FUCKING HARD! I really have to count frames on console condition. I keep all focus watch eyes of the exit. Its will flash once per every frame and one round contains 6 different animation and waver animation is 7 frames long. Its keep help count lenghts of the waver/shruggers animations. Otherwise this solution is nearly impossible make on console condition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5ZXRqSIUho

This is definitely my best record on Lemmings. I have to also bit luck. Its just really hard keep perfect focus and make this all done in one sitting. Its nearly 9 minutes long level and then you really can see what happen when you attempt sliding. That was just skills and luck both and a lot patient.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 03:16:27 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #132 on: January 22, 2020, 08:03:30 AM »
Mayhem 2 18 skills attempts. I think i come close. I look DOS builder video little bit better. I see i can compress better than my 19 skills video, making starting lock with little bit different steps. But how ever its going little bit wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atJ52Z2ZbnU

Yeah and this happen when attempt sliding 99 lemmings. One pixel error and 98 sliding up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze6gDeuc5qs

DOS version steps little bit confused me, because this coming different way than SNES (Snes have take builders one pixel behind). With this save file i cannot compress better, so probably have to look starting over again.

How ever this might be also releaserate error. Im not sure how SNES version will register releaserates when im unpaused. Rightnow i can´t see way compress better than upper video.  How ever 18 skills solution is extremely close in theory.  Sliding glitch is just extremely unforgiving. Also its might be are too brutal throw 99 lemming sliding on real console. That was just extremely painful make 98 lemmings jump correct. So i´ll happy 19 skils solution on console.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 09:05:40 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #133 on: January 22, 2020, 12:34:23 PM »
New find on SNES. Fun 29 & Mayhem 9 staircase clip with 2 skills is confirmed on SNES version. Its just different than DOS. DOS method already tested on SNES and its doesn´t work. But Here is different way i got working on SNES. So we probably can improve two more records on SNES.

Quote
This is also mine and I'll fix the post to re-attach any missing replays [edit: nothing to fix].  It is a glitch-free solution but because it uses miners, I can't rule out being surprised unpleasantly by SNES, though in this case it seems very unlikely that the miner differences in SNES would actually affect the solution.  So while it needs to be tested, I think it will work out.  In the spoilers below I've listed out all the skills and roughly where they are used.

[edit: finally tested on SNES.  So of course the SNES miner ruins things again. >:( Also, the part that uses the basher staircase trick apparently also fails due to the SNES basher taking out more pixels than DOS. :(]

Here is two skills. Just basher and builder. Its bit different way bash, but just 2 skills is enought,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwvqk1s8BuU

I have to test that how its working in actual levels. But for sure its confirmed now.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #134 on: January 22, 2020, 02:45:53 PM »
Quote
Here is two skills. Just basher and builder. Its bit different way bash, but just 2 skills is enought,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwvqk1s8BuU

I have to test that how its working in actual levels. But for sure its confirmed now.

SNES Staircase clip is succesfully used Mayhem 9 and its make 13 skills 100% solution possible:
Mayhem 9 10026 points (13 skills 100% saved)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsCF6BZ44c8

This similar strategy could be used fun 29 too. I already did 13 skills fun version used very different strategy. Staircase clip not was founded then. I quickly check out DOS fun 29 solution and this use miner cancel trick. Im pretty sure this trick doesn´t work on SNES version. I already tested that without luck. I test again and its not seems work any better than first time. I think i have to still look it again more carefully or i have try find another method which use 12 skills. I think we can make 13 skills solution with several differents ways in Fun 29.

This was my orginal way before staircase clip was founded on SNES.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldfr9xGcFQ8&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch&index=29

EDIT:
I probably have test can miner cancel used basher. Actually never are tested this. See if this could work.???
EDIT: 2
Tested basher and miner both. But you can only cancel miner using digger or builder on SNES version. So rightnow i cannot see 12 skills solution fun 29 possible. But I´ll back this if i go figured out something which could work. Otherwise staircase clip was just very useful find mayhem 9 only. But that was still nice find.;)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 03:43:29 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #135 on: January 22, 2020, 07:40:39 PM »
Im not sure how SNES version will register releaserates when im unpaused.

I believe release rate changes work the same way on SNES as in DOS (other than not possible to do while paused), and therefore should not be timing sensitive.  In DOS, it's like this:

1) A new lemming comes out, say it's the Nth lemming.
2) At the same time N is out, the game takes note of the current value of the release rate, call it R.
3) It saves a copy of the value R, and use that copy to track how long to wait before the next lemming (N+1) comes out.
4) If you now make changes to the release rate, say from R to S, it doesn't affect N+1 at all, because the game is using a copy of value R to track when to make N+1 come out, it doesn't look at new values of release rate (ie. S).  Instead S will affect N+2, because when N+1 does finally come out, we'll be at steps 2 and 3 again, and the game will then save a copy of the value S to track when N+2 comes out.

This is why I describe all the release rate changes as "change to value X after Yth lemming has come out".  The exact speed/timing of changing the release rate to X doesn't matter, as long as the target release rate value X is reached sometime after Y lemming and before Y+1 lemming.  The main problem is only that because SNES doesn't let you change release rate while paused, for very large changes, there may simply not be enough time between Y and Y+1 to finish making the change, making it impossible to do on SNES.

It's easy enough to test this on SNES emulator.  On a level that allows for a low release rate value (so you are given some decent amount of time to make release rate changes), once after you see a new lemming come out (N), try cranking up the release rate a bit.  You should find that the next lemming to come out (N+1) doesn't actually come out any faster compared to not having changed the release rate, only N+2 onwards are affected.  If you want to make N+1 come out sooner, you actually needed to change the release rate before N comes out, not after.

But you can only cancel miner using digger or builder on SNES version.

Yeah, I already tested this on SNES a while back when we were still on Fun.  I think it doesn't work because on SNES, the miner starts off not mining as deep as on DOS--on DOS the first stroke goes 2 pixels below ground level, but on SNES I think it only goes 1 pixel below.  So given the same number of completed mining strokes, SNES will always be one pixel less deep compared to DOS, and I think that's enough to prevent on SNES the miner canceling miner move used in the DOS solution.

Good job on finding the alternate placement of the basher for the staircase trick. :thumbsup:  Testing shows it actually also works on DOS version doing it that way; I should've tested more thoroughly a while ago when we were looking at Fun 29/Mayhem 9, I was too focused at that time on the exact way it was done and working in the DOS solution. :forehead:

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #136 on: January 25, 2020, 12:17:07 AM »
Back the Taxing 4 progress. Its really seems this setup make slide like DOS/lemmix version doesn´t work on SNES version. I find several troubles and i simply cannot improve it anymore. Just test out everythings and i´ll sure here is version differences.

I still got find alternate setup make this slide here, but rightnow its sadly ended still 16 skills.  I really want make 15 skills but this look i still need extra builder make this jumper effect. Its suck i have to look out it more later. Just spend whole 8 hours with this level a today. Mostly just try find working slide glitch on SNES version.

Taxing 4
SNES slide setup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbIyHySdWbE

Otherwise DOS & Lemmix route working very well. But this sliding seems version different IMO. Its just doesn´t work like DOS setup. So wasting total over 12 hours time with this without luck. I think im not going wasting anymore time attempted this and i´ll just try find alternate way make slide. Sadly its take 3 more skills than DOS method and only make me tied my points/skills. SO that was pretty pointless rightnow.:P If i can slide 1 skill less its will be make new SNES record.

Taxing 4 ending look like same as DOS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_f1pCHxTH4

Be right back if i figured out something.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 12:35:24 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 16.1.2020.
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2020, 03:17:11 PM »
Spending little bit analyze taxing 4. I´ll hope ccexplore try confirm this later with SNES emulator, because im not are TAS expert. Thats look its little basher version difference which make DOS/lemmix sliding setup impossible on SNES.  I tested it two different situation. One situation will build correct, but basher doesn´t break build brick, thats make 34 lemming jump effect impossible. 2nd setup will make basher break build brick like DOS, but then its let builder bit too low and its make 34 lemmings stuck middle of metal instead jumping.

I´ll hope we can modify it little bit. This quickly look like staircase clip fun 29 & mayhem 9. Its just requires little bit modify make it correctly on SNES, because this basher seems work just little bit different.

This sliding method i used yesterday is useless if you can,t make it any less skills. Its also really hard and messy. Im not exactly even know how i did it and i can´t consistent make this. I completed it total three times yesterday and make quick video when i got correct setup. Its look in radar jumper take this buld brick which requires jumping, its just really weird setup. Its also super hard setup and mostly luck and probably way too hard make on console conditions without tool assist. But at least its show we can use otherwise same solution as DOS/lemmix. Everythings else working very similar way.

We only need find way make correct sliding setup. If we cannot 13 skills on SNES. 14 & 15 skills both make record. So here is some leeway use some extra skills.

EDIT:
I have to test one little thing. Taxing 4 includes extra basher. If 2nd basher break 30 lemming builder and we can make jump effect, its might make 14 skills solution possible on SNES. I´ll test that later and look what will happen.;P Its will at least fix error about jump effect i think. I´ll be back.

EDIT:
Tested extra basher setup. Its give heights and jump effect, but jumper will stay one pixel too far to wall. So i´ll reject this setup.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 04:18:13 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.1.2020.
« Reply #138 on: January 26, 2020, 01:18:53 AM »
I´ll very thankfully if Ccexplore test Taxing 4 his SNES emulator. Then we really can analyze this level better. I personally suck TAS. I am more console player.

But that fact i have infinite patient and i never give up,. Sometimes i have to just keep break if il overloaded. I still never give up.

I love this game. When i got myocarditis auguast 2019 that was hell. Im spend nearly 3 weeks in hospital and close to die. I never give up.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.1.2020.
« Reply #139 on: January 29, 2020, 07:54:40 AM »
Taxing 4 15 skills 100% confirmed possible on Snes version. No any consistent idea how i did slide two lemmings up and without lock anyone. So its let me basher remain. It use 54 releaserate all time after 8 lemming come out.

Rightnow this not seems any realistic on console. But i have to make some research how i exactly make this.

At least this is confirmed now. I think slide glitch its not possible make any less builder on SNES.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.1.2020.
« Reply #140 on: January 29, 2020, 09:01:33 AM »
Okay here is new build slide setup taxing 4. Its could even one less than my previous record

This video use blocker help me watching better. Make three builders
1: Builder will cancel basher
2: Make seconds it upper right
3: Make last one with left and slide will starting.

Lemmings not even locking so we not need basher release otherones. I think if this could work on we can aim 14 skills on SNES.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX9FF-i62uw

However this is incredible difficult especially when huge groups lemmings run here and theres. So its will be really hard one. But this seems much cleaner than my previous setup.

14 skills confirmed emulator. I think i have pretty good solution rightnow and its might are possible make on console too.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 09:45:17 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.1.2020.
« Reply #141 on: January 29, 2020, 10:53:08 AM »
Here we go. Taxing 4 (14 skills) Snes solution finally completed on console. I am sure this DOS setup slide which use 13 skills doesn´t work on SNES version, its just not work, here is some level desingn difference and its make its simply impossible. So i have to make sliding very different way.  Luckily here is some leeway use extra skills with sliding, because hand trap route take 16 skills on SNES. So 14 skills is very good record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OutP-dFfY-g

This alternate slide take me so long to find. This sliding setup is also very easy when you know how timed this.  Its just important start basher correct use 54 releaserate when 8 lemmings come out and thats it. Make extra builder to right and then just waiting Take final gap/sliding when lemming group look good. Using this setup i just wait when timer goes 5:35 and then take this build brick.

Im not think we can aim 13 skills on SNES, but if we can its have to be different way than DOS/lemmix.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.1.2020.
« Reply #142 on: January 29, 2020, 07:16:08 PM »
Some sliding attempts Sunsoft Special 5 (aka lemming ark). Sadly this route look so exotic, but no save more skills. So its pointelss yet.

I think if i can slide little bit more right im not need that miner at end. But make this route really working i have to also slide all 49/50 lemmings up and use only one climber. This time its requires use all 3 climber so its only cool looking route.

Probably we can modify this later. But making new point/skill record i have to make this slide and level 3 less skills. So its will be hard work or probably impossible. I´ll look it better.

Slide setup clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ti5aVen6k

LOL route completion clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgi6eDW3jtw

EDIT:
48/50 Slide. I think i can slide 49/50 if i start releaserate better. I just used 67 releaserate all time But how ever this distance will be trouble here. If i take digger any pixel behind then basher will break lemming group and then you can,t slide all lemmings up. In theory 10004 points and 7 skills solution could be possible, but its take some research.  Its pretty close. make jump bit earlier then i can avoid use miner saving jumping lemmings, but i not have idea how avoid basher break this group.

I´ll back this level later. Few things have to be fixed and 7 skills lemming ark solution could be possible. Because this is not are DOS level nobody probably never trying it any serious. 8 skills seems just best possible without glitches. 7 skills might be possible if i can slide better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSN9045aOJc

SKIP Last miner 47/50 jumps and basher break group little bit. You can also take both climbers correctly with this point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gwc9xEWxgo

Next we have look can we make perfect slide 49/50 and last one use climber.

EDIT:
I think i did some good progress, but i cannot believe i´ll aim 7 skills solution in lemming ark level. Just few troubles which seems impossible make match. So this slide glitch solution seems just cool one, but totally pointless high scoring. Using slide route 9 skills is confirmed and probably 8 skills, but no chance make 7 skills match. So i think im not spend anymore time with this level rightnow.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 11:31:42 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 1.2.2020.
« Reply #143 on: February 02, 2020, 01:38:13 AM »
I got find one little glitch. But im not are find that useful yet, but its might working some levels. This example i used mayhem 3.

This is frame perfect trick you have to use miner and blocker and this if you make it with correct timing you can drop/zip one lemming down and its not break floor/bridge. Just might be useful if you have skip builder or something and zip one lemming down.
Example video clip (contains few failed attempts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrUYd3jSBuA

Sadly that not help me improve points mayhem 3. But there might are some other levels. Im not know working this other lemmings versions. This is used SNES version.

EDIT:
Tested other levels too. You can use that glitch everysingle level where you have miners & blocker. Sadly i´ll find this pointless make point records. But that was nice find. I´ll hope i can find some useful things using this glitch.;P
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 02:30:21 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 1.2.2020.
« Reply #144 on: February 03, 2020, 12:07:23 AM »
Its so damn fucking close make mayhem 3 5 skills solution on SNES. This use miner blocker through glitch. But i´ll need few more frames times make it possible.

Mayhem 3 very close 5 skills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE0tus4LqWQ

I read just time glitch (DOS glitch thread) Did this might work on SNES? I´ll need just few frames saving time make 5 skills solution possible. This is only spot where i can take miner and turn lemmings so i cannot make that any frames faster.

This level is just longer on SNES version. 5 more lemmings than DOS version and timer runner faster. This is way too close. Im not want give up that yet. I have to look which is this time glitch?

Quote
Pausing for time: The entrance hatch begins opening a specific length of time after the level starts, at the same time the sound effect plays. If you pause the game before the hatch begins to open, the timer stops counting down while the game is paused, but the hatch still opens at the same time (or immediately after you unpause, if you wait until after the sound plays). This gives you about two seconds extra to complete the level.

If this might work on SNES, its might enought save all.

LOL
Yeah this pause glitch work on SNES and its just make time enought make 5 skills.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 12:20:51 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 1.2.2020.
« Reply #145 on: February 03, 2020, 12:49:21 AM »
Mayhem 3 5 skills SNES done on console

Two glitch. Miner floor through glitch and pause glitch. Luckily this pause glitch work on SNES and its save just few important frames save 100%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siLBVH42LEk
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 7.2.2020.
« Reply #146 on: February 07, 2020, 05:29:08 PM »
Newest playlist is updated. Rightnow i really cannot see many level possible improvement. We are did really good progress SNES and DOS version levels.

But new tips are always welcomed. I´ll read this topic and every tips will welcomed.  I´ll also hope this my 10 year progress will help DOS players make some new things up.

Most potential levels might be improvement:
Taxing 4: Never got work DOS strategty my SNES. But i got find different slide system which take one more skill but improve 2 skills over handtrap route

Mayhem 2: 18 skills might possible on SNES version too. My setup let one pixel remain

Mayhem 6: 9 skills
Its probably impossible or we need different releaserate manipulations, because SNES can´t be that sharp like DOS version. Otherwise same solution will work.

Sunsoft special 2: Richard Diaz are confirmed 100%. but my palying skills is no enought make 40 pixel perfect timing in one row

Sunsfot special 5: Slide glitch working but cannot make it any less skills what i did. So its pointless if i we cannot find better setup

EDIT:
I´ll ask what is this Mayhem 19 2 lost solutions (this is used genesis version). Wrampi are make only picture proof his completion
https://www.video-games-records.com/lemmings-mayhem-19-time-to-get-yup-record-r113554.html

I test slide and actual slide working, but its not let lemmings through first wall on SNES. Not test it genesis yet. Still wonder this proof, because i cannot find any theory working strategy. I see its never done on DOS version too.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 7.2.2020.
« Reply #147 on: February 08, 2020, 01:00:17 AM »
There is an alternative solution/method to save 100% on sunsoft 2 that I think is easier than Richard Diaz's solution , and also it can help you to save more skills. I had proposed that solution for a talisman for the Lemmings Redux version of the level . I will copy-paste my description of that method from that thread ( but I will use again spoiler tags for anyone that doesn't want to have the talisman solution spoiled ):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also some additional hints:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 11:27:30 AM by Turrican »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 7.2.2020.
« Reply #148 on: February 08, 2020, 01:30:02 AM »
I´ll ask what is this Mayhem 19 2 lost solutions (this is used genesis version). Wrampi are make only picture proof his completion
https://www.video-games-records.com/lemmings-mayhem-19-time-to-get-yup-record-r113554.html

Just a screenshot of the postlevel screen is pretty useless as proof IMHO, they are so easily faked.  More suspicious still is the strange way they cropped the proof screenshot.  Compare with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QpJRgXVpfI&feature=youtu.be&t=15010 which is I believe what the screen is supposed look like without any cropping.  (The password difference is just a US vs European difference.)

It's also possible the result was legitimate but actually from a different port (ie. not Genesis) where the level itself is different enough to allow for the result.  As you know, Lemmings have been ported to so many systems.

Unless Genesis has some major terrain or skill differences, then even if we assume (which I'm not sure is even possible; I'm almost 100% sure no) lemmings on that version can get up all the way offscreen and walk on the ceiling, there is still no place in the ceiling thin enough to bomb through using only 2 bombers.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 7.2.2020.
« Reply #149 on: February 08, 2020, 05:31:48 AM »
Thinking about it a little more as I drove home, I now actually think maybe there is a way to do lose 2 after all on Mayhem 19, given what we knew about stuck climbers.  But need to do more testing to be sure, and whether there are enough builders available on this level to make it work is also at issue.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If my idea works out it should work on SNES and DOS as well, but again need to do some testing first, maybe later tonight.  Maybe you can beat me to it too.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 7.2.2020.
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2020, 06:47:17 AM »
Good news! I've confirmed lose 2 is indeed possible on DOS for Mayhem 19, and have posted a Lemmix replay here.  Don't foresee any problems making it work on SNES Lemmings as well.

I actually don't know if it's optimized yet for skills count, I suspect maybe you can get away with 1 or possibly 2 less builders, might go back to optimize for that later today.  In the meantime, feel free to try yourself on SNES and let me know how things go; good luck!  It should also please you that there is no need for sliding glitch, though it still does contain a good number of pixel-precision moves unfortunately.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 7.2.2020.
« Reply #151 on: February 10, 2020, 03:19:37 PM »
Wow thanks. I also confirmed mayhem 19 2 lost solution on SNES version too. Using ccexplore building route. (21 skills)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGyKtVRqW1s

Great find. I actual knew that wrampi picture proof several years ago but never sure is that faked one and i also asked about this about wrampi, but he never answered my private message. So i always believe that not was real proof.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 7.2.2020.
« Reply #152 on: February 11, 2020, 06:35:55 PM »
There is an alternative solution/method to save 100% on sunsoft 2 that I think is easier than Richard Diaz's solution , and also it can help you to save more skills. I had proposed that solution for a talisman for the Lemmings Redux version of the level . I will copy-paste my description of that method from that thread ( but I will use again spoiler tags for anyone that doesn't want to have the talisman solution spoiled ):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also some additional hints:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Finally make this level emulator and this solution could be most potential attempt to console too. It allow some errors and waste lemmings. Releaserate 94 seems just enought slow and fast.
Okay quick emulator proof clip. 100% saved diggers only (12 skills remain) and its definitely could be few less skills done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIh3kCFb_Qw

Im not are make that on console yet, but i can proof 100% & a lot less skills than Richard diaz solution.

But before console attempts i have to redo my consistent a lot. But this idea seems pretty simple and luckily errors is allowed to make. Richard diaz solution was extremely unforgiving because its not allow any pixel errors. So thats definitely "easier". Its still will be really hard level.

EDIT:
Sunsoft Special 2 10013 points confirmed using emulator and tool assist. 100% & 29 skills (its surely can done 1-2 skills less probably even more) Im not TAS expert and my emulator AVI recorder suck too much.

If we talking about seriously. Im not think i´ll make this 100% completion guide on console very soon. Its just extremely difficult make this digger staircase even using emulator and tools i have to practice a lot my consistent. Even this new strategy is probably bit easier than Richard diaz way, its still way too hard make without savestate. Here is still a lot things im way too incosistent make. Its just way too easy ruin this staircasing.

I´ll need a lot work before i think i can even imagine make this on my console. Its will be much harder solution than The Boiler room or Pillar of Hercules which both was probably two hardest ones what i did my real SNES.

EDIT:
Make typo. 10013 points is 29 skills.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 02:49:35 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 7.2.2020.
« Reply #153 on: February 12, 2020, 03:13:22 AM »
LOL i decide test sunsoft special 2 my real SNES console system. I got 9924 points my 1st attempt. (99% & 18 skills) This used bomb cancel because i miss 100% game at end.

This is easy 100% route. This real 100% solution started go really hard at end. I still wonder how much easier its play use real SNES control than emulator using computer keyboard.

Yeah 99% console solution is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMQZcHzwziY

EDIT:
Okay update page and skill list. Also youtube list.

Have to back try Sunsoft special 2 100% console solution later. No luck make 100% solution a today. But pretty happy i got 99% solution done on console. I think i can make 100% too, but its requires a lot luck and patience. Its particular same way as 99%, but just without bomb cancel. So its will also required around 10 more digger cancel.

But that is good thing its easier play using control pad than keyboard

« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 04:51:55 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.2.2020.
« Reply #154 on: February 12, 2020, 03:37:32 PM »
There is a way to avoid some digger cancels at the end and make the final part of the solution easier .

When the staircase is a little over the bottom part of the terrain ( a little over the steel ) , you can stop the digger cancels and leave the staircase incomplete .

Then you can use 3 lemmings ( the remaining digger and other two ) as diggers to dig a wide pit .

That pit will be at the left of the incomplete staircase ,  it will be wide , and the bottom part of it will be the steel . You will have 3 lemmings in that pit ( on the steel ) , while the other ones will be heading to the exit .

In that case , you will assign one of these as a builder , and will build a bridge that will begin from the bottom ( the steel ) and will end at the lowest part of the staircase . If you do it correctly , the final 3 lemmings will enter the staircase , and will go to the exit too .

You just need to find which is the optimal height to stop the digger cancels , and to leave the staircase incomplete . It must be enough , so the bridge the builder will build , will lead the 3 remaining lemmings to the staircase . I would suggest , to experiment first on the emulator to find which is the optimal height .
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 04:23:50 PM by Turrican »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.2.2020.
« Reply #155 on: February 12, 2020, 04:36:33 PM »
There is a way to avoid some digger cancels at the end and make the final part of the solution easier .

When the staircase is a little over the bottom part of the terrain ( a little over the steel ) , you can stop the digger cancels and leave the staircase incomplete .

Then you can use 3 lemmings ( the remaining digger and other two ) as diggers to dig a wide pit .

That pit will be at the left of the incomplete staircase ,  it will be wide , and the bottom part of it will be the steel . You will have 3 lemmings in that pit ( on the steel ) , while the other ones will be heading to the exit .

In that case , you will assign one of these as a builder , and will build a bridge that will begin from the bottom ( the steel ) and will end at the lowest part of the staircase . If you do it correctly , the final 3 lemmings will enter the staircase , and will go to the exit too .

You just need to find which is the optimal height to stop the digger cancels , and to leave the staircase incomplete . It must be enough , so the bridge the builder will build , will lead the 3 remaining lemmings to the staircase . I would suggest , to experiment first on the emulator to find which is the optimal height .

Okay. Sound interesting, but my english skills is pretty limited i cannot fully undestand what you actual mean about.

Did you can post me some pictures? Its might make that easier undestand.

EDIT:
Did you mean little bit like this?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 04:43:53 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.2.2020.
« Reply #156 on: February 12, 2020, 06:25:35 PM »
Did you mean little bit like this?

   Yes! Exactly!
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.2.2020.
« Reply #157 on: February 12, 2020, 07:05:41 PM »
Did you mean little bit like this?

   Yes! Exactly!

Okay thanks. Yeah this strategy also save some skills. I Did theory TAS my emulator and got 10016 points 100% & 26 skills and its not optimize and could be improvement. I no have any clue which is max points in this level but at least 1-2 skills less could be are possible. Probably TAS expert could make much more.

However this level started go really hard at end. I still have much trouble parts where we close to reach bottom, because lemmings will falling wrong places and i ruin my cancel over and over. This hard part is skipped in 99% solution which make it much more easier executed.

However its might some crazy effort wish some luck and try attempt this on console. Then im not going care points, just will try 100% completion only.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.2.2020.
« Reply #158 on: February 12, 2020, 11:33:24 PM »
No luck yet sunsoft special 2 100% solution on console. 3/73 attemps reach bottom, but i dying last builder or one more digger cancel. Thats just shit fucking luck.:devil:

I hope im not going break my SNES controll trying make 100% completion with this level. Also this level make my brains totally overloading after few good attempts. Mayhem 2 The Boiler Room 19 skills solution take me 8 hours, but somereason this level never make me that angry, that was just pretty relax trying.

Little bit break and couple beers and make few more attempt a today if my button mash and brain combination start work again. This is my last real lemmings progress i think. Its ironic how easy it was throw 99% solution yesterdays my 1st attempt.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.2.2020.
« Reply #159 on: February 13, 2020, 12:41:32 AM »
Hell yeah im finally done it. This take me around 12 years my lemmings experience:
Sunsoft Special 2 100% (10013 points) Real SNES system and without cheats.

Okay its 3 points less than my theory TAS. But im not care. I have to drink 4 beers because its improvement my nervers and focus. This is level is no joke.

My video is horrible slow, but its more good tutorial video than current TAS video which was speedrun.

Sunsoft Special 2 10013 points on console.:thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNhy6sE4f0k
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.2.2020.
« Reply #160 on: February 13, 2020, 01:35:49 AM »
Congratulations!!! :thumbsup: Very impressive!!
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 13.2.2020.
« Reply #161 on: February 15, 2020, 11:12:27 AM »
Massive improvement over Sunsoft Special 3 (Private room is available is called level name other lemminsg versions) 33 skills used (previous record was 40 skills)

Okay im not go public that video yet, because i´ll definitely can go for 10012 points (32 skills). But rightnow my brain is totally overloaded and nothings works in my head. So i think i show this strategy quickly and i´ll make 10012 points solution later when my brain and button combination start work over again. 10012 points strategy is pretty similar, but its will some releaserate manipulation and few more pixel perfect tricks.

This is definitely 2nd hardest lemmings level which not contains any glitches. This all is pure logic and math. Sunsoft special 2 might be called hardest level entire game max-% and max pointed. But Sunsoft special 3 also requires more pixel perfect timings than Mayhem 10 Pillar of Hercules which contais somewhere 14-16 (not remember anymore) Here you need somewhere nearly 20 one pixel timings.

However here is 33 skills video which will be redo later or sooner. This level is extremely brutal with my setup. Full amount pixel tricks and



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h61Xhjpo1gs

LOL i really hate when my brains got overloaded and i cannot make simply button mashing without dyings:evil: Thats sometimes happen. But its will be recovery, hopefully soon.???

Quote
Congratulations!!! :thumbsup: Very impressive!!

Thanks.:)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 11:34:00 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 13.2.2020.
« Reply #162 on: February 15, 2020, 03:46:34 PM »
Sunsoft Special 3 10012 points. (32 skills)
This was really worth it. I just count my console recorded attempts and it look 6GT and 285 failed attempts and 12 hours lenght.. Its more than any other levels into game. I m not think this level is harder than Mayhem 10 pillar of hercules 2 lost solution or Boiler Room 100% solution. But this my day was absolutely crap ever. I like did mistakes like miss last builder over gap and etc things which never ever happen before. I am own this game 25 years, but never miss this last builder over gap before.

I also have really pad days with my controlls and brains like stuck like hell.

How ever finally done this. 32 skills and also one minute faster solution in real time. Its just might make its more fun to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zvV-7zGFYU

About genesis version you can use cheap metal gltich way and beat levels like joke. This way is totally erased on SNES version. This is totally glitch free solution. I find just really hard pixel perfect trick make privaterooms with less diggers used. Im not never see it before. So im very glad with this.:thumbsup:
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 15.2.2020.
« Reply #163 on: February 15, 2020, 06:40:36 PM »
I want talking little bit sunsoft levels? I see lemmix players not are tested a lot because lemmix not includes those levels.

Sunsoft 1: I am test climber skips strategys and trying trap glitch using bombs, but thats look SNES version not allow.
Sunsoft 2: I am confirmed 10016 points 26 skills emulator and defintiely could be be better. Probabably forever progress on console, because i not have any idea how much you can save skills and make 100%. Probably requires TAS expert player test theory max
Sunsoft 3: I got find 32 skills solution on SNES.  Using genesis you can use cheap metal glitch, but its erased on SNES.
Sunsoft 4: This level interested me. 10 skills is my best. Richard Diaz did awesome solution turn blocker and beat level under 1 minute. Its still take too much skills. I am test out some glitches, but wont work save skills
Sunsfoft 5: I am test out slide glitch and confrimed you can beat level with 9 skills using slide. I am pretty sure 8 skills work using slide too. But making 7 skills record not seems realistic. I see too much troubles which not match. I make some emu clips already. 8 Skills is also make without glitches so slide seems just more cool than useful.
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 15.2.2020.
« Reply #164 on: February 19, 2020, 11:51:15 AM »
Sunsoft Special 4 (called name final impediment other lemmings versions)

100% & 8 skills solution

Two points improvement over previous. Thats not requires anything very exotic. Its just important make buildings pixel perfect and command first builder 2nd last pixel before lemming will fall down. That just because if you command it pixel later you cannot break blocker without breaking bridge.

This strategy seems a lot same like strategy Mayhem 17 Stepping stones. I pretty much wonder anyone figured that already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA3LRKci1U4
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 19.2.2020.
« Reply #165 on: February 21, 2020, 12:25:10 PM »
Nothing new about DOS players. But i make Mayhem 26 Steel mines of the kessel one less skill used.

New record 9514 points and 16 skills. That just pretty fun accident. I watch DOS 4 lemming lost solution and see you can build up one less builder than i did already. However its will still requires 11 builders make 4 lost solution and SNES version give only 10 builders. So i did 9 builders 5 lost solution

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppjh9T00cME&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj3qTY_z-MWqhoM0AryLTdd1&index=26
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 21.2.2020.
« Reply #166 on: February 24, 2020, 12:20:48 PM »
Finally got find some really new which nobody figured out before. I am quite sure its will working DOS version too

Mayhem 20 No added colours or Lemmings 10001 points  (6 skills solution)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here is video
No added colours or Lemmings 10001 points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reOfnw-ZED4

EDIT:
Tested out DOS and Genesis version and this strategy doens´t work those versions, because miner mechanism is different.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 09:13:26 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 26.2.2020.
« Reply #167 on: March 03, 2020, 12:28:37 AM »
Finally got find some really new which nobody figured out before. I am quite sure its will working DOS version too.

Mayhem 20 No added colours or Lemmings 10001 points  (6 skills solution)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here is video
No added colours or Lemmings 10001 points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reOfnw-ZED4

This won't work in DOS. I'm not sure exactly what causes the difference, but in DOS, a miner from that starting area will never have exactly 1px of solid terrain below him, thus, that glitch can't be used (and this solution won't work).
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 26.2.2020.
« Reply #168 on: March 03, 2020, 05:55:05 AM »
I'm not sure exactly what causes the difference, but in DOS, a miner from that starting area will never have exactly 1px of solid terrain below him

It's pretty simple, in DOS Lemmings (and many other ports aside from SNES's unique mining behavior), each mining stroke (including the first) takes out exactly 2 rows of pixels below ground level, so if you need to end up with exactly 1 row of pixels, the thickness needs to be an odd number of pixels.  In some cases you can use a builder to started mining higher by one pixel to create the desired outcome.

I haven't studied SNES miner in detail, but I have observed that the first stroke only takes out 1 row of pixel on ground rather than the usual 2.  Subsequent strokes do take out 2.  So the parity is flipped and I can see on SNES you would need even-pixels thickness to end up with exactly 1 row of pixels.

[aside: due to various factors including one of my laptops temporarily out of commission, I'll be lighter in all activities Lemmings over next few days]

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 26.2.2020.
« Reply #169 on: March 03, 2020, 08:51:28 AM »
Finally got find some really new which nobody figured out before. I am quite sure its will working DOS version too.

Mayhem 20 No added colours or Lemmings 10001 points  (6 skills solution)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here is video
No added colours or Lemmings 10001 points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reOfnw-ZED4

This won't work in DOS. I'm not sure exactly what causes the difference, but in DOS, a miner from that starting area will never have exactly 1px of solid terrain below him, thus, that glitch can't be used (and this solution won't work).

I see. I quickly test out it my lemmix emulator and  yeah that look its version differences with miner.

SO this method seems work SNES only and probably genesis version (not are test out it yet on genesis). IIRC genesis miner was quite similar as SNES.

EDIT:
Testing out genesis version too. Its has same trouble as DOS and its won´t work with that same reason.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 08:59:51 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 26.2.2020.
« Reply #170 on: November 25, 2020, 02:03:01 PM »
New find. Mayhem 29 Save me 9703 points. 97% saved with 22 skills SNES. That also pause free completion. I just make totally accident find skip one more builder when i attempt my pause free challenge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqcdgUZRKQ&ab_channel=metroidmaster88
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
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Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.11.2020.
« Reply #171 on: December 15, 2020, 03:08:32 PM »
LOL Genesis version could make 4 Skills 100% solution Fun level 11 Keep your hair Mr lemmings.

I make several testing yesterday on SNES, but SNES miner mechanism not like work like this. You can make 4 skills completion solution on SNES version use basher, but then you cannot turn climber lemming to back so its will fall to death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WIa7Oc5OgY&ab_channel=metroidmaster88

SNES Could be done 5 Skills solution with several ways, but because thats miner doesn´t want break that wall 4 skills seems impossible.

Snes
5 Skills my first one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knoHqEmcAvs&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch&index=11&ab_channel=metroidmaster88

Snes
5 Skills alternate 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijrlheCdpAg&ab_channel=metroidmaster88

Snes
5 Skills alternate 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xGP844ylbU&ab_channel=metroidmaster88
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 04:14:57 PM by MASTER-88 »
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Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.11.2020.
« Reply #172 on: August 11, 2023, 08:43:56 PM »
i managed to do sunsoft 1 without any climbers in a TAS not sure if it is known
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyL-JysDusI

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.11.2020.
« Reply #173 on: August 12, 2023, 04:18:00 AM »
i managed to do sunsoft 1 without any climbers in a TAS not sure if it is known
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyL-JysDusI

Holy god. That was awesome. :lem-mindblown: Yes i didn´t know this. How ever i am attempt this emulator, but i never got it working perfectly. I´ll see its possible. Nice job :thumbsup:

Okay you will give me some good challenge try to make this on console card. Lets try it.

BTW did you are trying Mayhem level 6 Way or another 9 skills solution on TAS? This releaserate thing is trouble because you cannot change releaserate while you are pausing. How ever i´ll believe there some ways make its manipulate with SNES system, make 9 skills work. Its will be different. How ever im not very expert TAS guy.
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 25.11.2020.
« Reply #174 on: August 12, 2023, 09:07:05 AM »
Damn. I finally managed it on console system.

Okay that not edited version. This take me 4 hours. Its not only those frame perfect bomb aimings. You have to start raise releaserate with correct frame. Its virtually impossible make it with pure skills. Its just muscle memory and luck combinations. Luckily this is short level.

Very much thanks Paiy. Okay that not edited version. Have to edit it later. I was way too lazy shut of my OBS recorded after failed attempt. This take me some 130 attempts total +much emu trainings. Emu training very little bit help me, because you usually failed that releaserate thing. So have to always start over again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_wHbFewRb8&ab_channel=metroidmaster88
« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 05:24:36 PM by MASTER-88 »
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #175 on: August 12, 2023, 02:41:33 PM »
i'll be cheking Mayhem 6 later today im a little busy atm so i may dont get it done today. btw that sunsoft 1 strat i had on my mind for a few months but it took me about 2 weeks to finish this strat in a tas

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #176 on: August 12, 2023, 05:24:17 PM »
i'll be cheking Mayhem 6 later today im a little busy atm so i may dont get it done today. btw that sunsoft 1 strat i had on my mind for a few months but it took me about 2 weeks to finish this strat in a tas

Hey thanks Paiy. Sorry already my typo your nickname. Will be fixed it.

Yeah i myself attempt that Sunsoft Special 1. 3 year ago. I knew this bomb glitch and managed it, but never succesfully save any lemmings. Yeah that your strategy was extremely genius. Also really hard executed in console condition. Its really hard find right frame start raise releaserate, even i watch your video a lot, i have to techincally guess it. Also those bombs aimings was really hard ones.

BTW GL Mayhem 6. I´ll personally always think its possible on emulator, but its might be virtually impossible console condition. DOS & Neolemmings use paused releaserate manipulation then its quite simple to make. Its not possible on SNES.
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #177 on: August 14, 2023, 04:30:45 AM »
i sadly did not have any time yet to get to do something on M6 yet as im working on a tas that is  really importand to me. I would definetly dont mind checking M6 tho but i'd need some sort of reffrence like the strat being done on dos so i even know what the strat for it is

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #178 on: August 14, 2023, 04:50:29 AM »
Maximum score is basically the same challenge as Minimum skills with maximum saved, so that topic is the first port of call when you want to compare with DOS results. However, for levels requiring 100% (of which Mayhem 6 is one) results were copied from What is the minimum number of skills needed to beat each level?.

Mayhem 6's result was reported in this post, with a replay.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #179 on: August 14, 2023, 05:10:36 AM »
thanks imma start trying it in a tas as soon as i can

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #180 on: August 14, 2023, 06:06:22 AM »
found a 98% tas of save me on nicovideo i didnt count the skills used in. its the last tas in the vid https://sp.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm35957675?ref=sp_video_watch_related_videos
« Last Edit: August 14, 2023, 01:44:16 PM by Paiy »

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #181 on: August 15, 2023, 04:56:53 AM »
^ It used everything except two blockers, saving 98/100.  If it can be confirmed on the actual console, it will break the existing max-saved record for that level on the SNES.  That would be easier said than done, though, considering the insane rapid-fire sequence of pixel-precise assignments at the very end.  And to make that sequence of assignments even possible, the release of the crowd needs to be timed perfectly such that they catch up to the leader at exactly the right moment.

I'd imagine this solution could be adapted for DOS with a few slight modifications, although it won't break the record there, since 78/80 has already been confirmed in DOS via another method.

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #182 on: August 15, 2023, 07:36:19 AM »
found a 98% tas of save me on nicovideo i didnt count the skills used in. its the last tas in the vid https://sp.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm35957675?ref=sp_video_watch_related_videos

This video actually not was 98% solution. Its look that was speedrun solution and multiple lemmings die. Its might be interest to see if we really can make 98% saved on SNES (even in theory). How ever its seems its will be only TAS possible if we need a lot those releaserate manipulations.
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Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #183 on: August 17, 2023, 03:55:45 PM »
found a 98% tas of save me on nicovideo i didnt count the skills used in. its the last tas in the vid https://sp.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm35957675?ref=sp_video_watch_related_videos

This video actually not was 98% solution. Its look that was speedrun solution and multiple lemmings die. Its might be interest to see if we really can make 98% saved on SNES (even in theory). How ever its seems its will be only TAS possible if we need a lot those releaserate manipulations.

it is the 2nd/last tas in the vid watch it all the way through there is a 98% tas of save me

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #184 on: August 20, 2023, 06:05:22 PM »
Did you can link me straight link 98% TAS video? Im not handled any words japan. This link only show me Lord Tom TAS solution.
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Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #185 on: August 22, 2023, 12:37:51 PM »
alright just for you i screenrecorded it. here is the reupload on yt only including the 98% tas https://youtu.be/op_gC4Sg-Nk

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 12.8.2023.
« Reply #186 on: August 23, 2023, 07:09:40 AM »
A lot thanks with this link Paiy. I´ll add video link in mainpage. How ever its still look this version will be virtually impossible managed on console condition. But very glad to see its working on TAS. That quite major find.

Very Genius solution. :thumbsup:
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Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #187 on: August 23, 2023, 07:53:14 PM »
it seems to rely on qf perfect RR raising and lowering combined with so many things needting to be absolutly perfect i dont see a real way for it to be done rta either but its always nice to see what is possible in theory.

i also want to say that i dont know if this tas strat was done by mochi but because there channel was the only one i could find the tas on i credited them as the taser the reason i dont know if it was actually them if because it seems like they have uploaded other peoples tases aswell
« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 08:07:03 PM by Paiy »

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #188 on: August 24, 2023, 09:53:13 AM »
it seems to rely on qf perfect RR raising and lowering combined with so many things needting to be absolutly perfect i dont see a real way for it to be done rta either but its always nice to see what is possible in theory.

i also want to say that i dont know if this tas strat was done by mochi but because there channel was the only one i could find the tas on i credited them as the taser the reason i dont know if it was actually them if because it seems like they have uploaded other peoples tases aswell

Thanks. Releaserate is most hardest lemmings toolbox skill IMO. You can techincally make magic when you used it correct. I started follow your youtube channel and i am intereest see you TAS videos and also want see is there more potential max-% & min skills challenge in future.

98% save me was simply genius. When i check out it even more better, its seems there have to be over 50 frame times in row. My personal best is 13-15 frame time in row on console and hell yeah those are taking me forever. Im not see potential i can make 98% Save Me my real SNES system w/o tools.

How ever i am did many TAS trick possible on console. My masterwork is Mayhem 2 Boiler Room and Mayhem 10 Pillar of Hercules. Pillar of Hercules required me most frame timings in row. That was 12-13 IIRC. Boiler Room allow errors, but  i have to count all frames correct. So its take me tons pen and paper., a lot emu pracitce and 8-9 hours to managed on console I also use memory code. That was fire type level goal. There is 7 different frames how those flames moved. I just look goal eyes. That was my memory code.

How ever its take me forever count those all fames correct. Its techically best possible what human can make on console system. How ever there is much easeir Boliler room 100% solution planned by ccexplore. Its not contains those frames how ever its very hard completed too. But much easier than my current best solution.

Who really know? Is 98% Save Me possible on console system, but we will need some better memory codes. Making this your TAS solution not seems console possible. Way too much frame timings in one row.

BTW You are welcomed to post other TAS Which are min skills/max-% on TAS. I´ll interested. I personally think this 9 skills mayhem 6 might be TAS possible too. its will also requiresd heavy amount release rate manipulation like 98% Save Me. DOS/neollemmings allow change release rate when you paused. Its not hard here. About SNES, its will be brutal and requires extrmely IQ.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 09:58:16 AM by MASTER-88 »
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Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
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https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #189 on: August 24, 2023, 01:33:02 PM »
i have tried for around 6-7hours to get the timing on M6 but it seems to be impossible because the RR on snes can only be moved up/down 1 every 4 frames meaning 1qf or 1 pysics update. i feel like i can remember something something like paused releasse rate raise wich to my remembering requires lag manipulation to change qf's and requires frame perfectly pressing start on each qf while perfectly pressing "A" on each qf at the same time however i cant find anything about it anymore and cant recreate it myself maybe it was a specific v.x.x version of the game but idk (note that i dont even know if i have ever seen it actually or if it was just a dream or something like it so dont expect that it is actually possible)

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #190 on: August 24, 2023, 03:15:52 PM »
i have tried for around 6-7hours to get the timing on M6 but it seems to be impossible because the RR on snes can only be moved up/down 1 every 4 frames meaning 1qf or 1 pysics update. i feel like i can remember something something like paused releasse rate raise wich to my remembering requires lag manipulation to change qf's and requires frame perfectly pressing start on each qf while perfectly pressing "A" on each qf at the same time however i cant find anything about it anymore and cant recreate it myself maybe it was a specific v.x.x version of the game but idk (note that i dont even know if i have ever seen it actually or if it was just a dream or something like it so dont expect that it is actually possible)

Hey thanks when you check out this. I´ll believe Mayhem 6 is impossible with 9 skills on SNES. This DOS/Neolemmings stratgys is drop release rate 50/99 while paused. I have similar type custom level which used this same strategy. I later watch its possible completed different releaserate manipulations too, so i was dreaming it is way make it on SNES too. I personally suck releaserate manipulations myself so im not was sure. Thanks for testing it.

BTW if you have always some levels max-% minium skills solutions in progress. Just post it here. I´ll want see is my list perfectly done. I think there is no many levels remain which could be impprovemenet about scores. I´ll knew SUNSOFT SPEICAL 2 could be improvement. I got 10013 points with console and 10016 points with my crap TAS. I think my TAS could be improve at least 3 more points (3 less skills) How ever making those on console is not realistic.
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Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
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Custom +2 (124 Levels)
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Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
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My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #191 on: August 25, 2023, 02:52:23 PM »
i know that on the first page it says "on european version" but i think it should be mentioned that TRI21 "Ohayo Lemmings san" is a diffrent level on the japanese version on there it is "all the 6's" wich of course takes less skills here is a link for just a little demonstation of how easy it is to save skills on the jp version https://youtu.be/d6r7l01sFSI (not optimised)

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #192 on: August 26, 2023, 08:47:51 AM »
Yes you can work Tricky 24 666 Japanessa version. I´ll listed it in maingpage This iseems its only version dffence beteen SNES & JPN Version. Also DOS version used 666.

 There is also DOS records with this level. Its seems its 9 skills 100% saved is vest possible at this point.
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1068.0
Video games player.
See my youtube: Several games videos includes lemmings
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88?feature=mhum

My Huge Lemmings Projects

Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
Custom +1 (120 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4539.0

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #193 on: August 26, 2023, 09:29:52 AM »
there are a few more diffrences between US/EU and JP but those done matter for max points

btw we all fall down is one qf away from 2 skills but it doesnt seem like you can get the second lemmings 1qf ealier

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #194 on: August 26, 2023, 04:45:07 PM »
there are a few more diffrences between US/EU and JP but those done matter for max points

btw we all fall down is one qf away from 2 skills but it doesnt seem like you can get the second lemmings 1qf ealier

Its might be interested see list version differences between those eversion USA/JAPAN/EU-

IIRC there not much completion differences (though passwords are different, but its not affect gameplay. Another big fun is different level Tricky 21

Yeah we are dicuss a lot 2 skill we all fall down levels before. That  was Genesis versus SNES. Genesis version allow 2 skills we all fall down, but SNES version doesn`t, even releaserate system is pretty similar with both versions.  But how ever i m not nevrer are tested it JAPAN ROM myslf.


I just have European console and cart and US emulator & Rom.

2 skill We All Fall Down might be massive find on SNES if this could work. Im not never are got work on it my own way How even im managed 2 lost solution genesis version. USA/VS EU version match with gameplay very well IMO

Not sure about japane version.

If you have some news masterwork just post it here. Then we can at least test & compared
« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 05:03:33 PM by MASTER-88 »
Video games player.
See my youtube: Several games videos includes lemmings
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88?feature=mhum

My Huge Lemmings Projects

Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
Custom +1 (120 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
Custom +2 (124 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5993.0
Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
Amiga Classic Special (30 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6345.0

My SNES Lemmings MAX Points Project
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4539.0

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #195 on: August 27, 2023, 11:42:35 AM »
im going to be doing some attempts on diffrent region versions for snes if i can pause 1qf earlier on one of them i think i can manage to do 2skill we all fall down i only tried on U1.1 so far

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Re: Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 23.8.2023.
« Reply #196 on: September 01, 2023, 01:12:11 PM »
Here is maybe quite unique trick, or at least that was unique for me few days ago. Crane actually told me abou