Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]

[WillLem]

I couldn't find any solution of Manic 12. Can somebody help me, please?

Here are my replays. The initial solution is a bit of a hack, but it gets the level solved. If you'd rather have a hint than a solution replay:

Spoiler

Think about what can be used other than Blockers to stop the lems turning around. You need to create something 7 pixels high so they can't step over it.

As for the talisman, the fewest builders I can solve this with is 1. Maybe these "1 Builder" solutions might help to point towards what the talisman solution actually is. It's probably something super fiddly and awkward, like (Method 2).

Hope this helps

[Proxima]

I have read several comments about that level and I know that you have to use some technical tricks in order to get the talisman, but I still can't see it.
The replays by Proxima were very helpful for me, but I couldn't find any solution of Manic 12. Can somebody help me, please?

Hints for the talisman solution:

Spoiler

The tricks you need should be familiar if you've done most of the other levels and talismans. Lemmings can ascend a step of 6 pixels, but not 7. Blockers can be released by removing the ground under them.

Spoiler

Since you only have one basher, the blocker must be removed with a digger. How can this digger be stopped? Since you don't have builders, what other skills do you have?

Replay attached in case you decide it's time to throw in the towel.

[HansBertram]

Ah, thank you!
The solution is actually much easier and less fiddly than I expected - very elegant!

Spoiler

I just should have thought more deeply about the possibilities of digging a big whole. I thought that it would be impossible to save the pack from being trapped when using a digger to block the return path to the left.

Now I like this level very much.

[Simon]

Attached is a solution to Redux's version of Lemmings' Ark that conceptually cannot work in vanilla Lemmix.

NL allows physics that are impossible in vanilla Lemmix:

Spoiler

1. Have a right-facing walker on top of left-pointing one-way block.
2. Assign digger. He'll dig into the one-way wall. (Works on all versions.)
3. Assign basher to the right-facing digger while he's still digging.

Vanilla: The basher assignment is not allowed.

NL: Assignment is allowed. Lemming bashes the left-pointing one-way wall to its right, immediately cancels due to hitting unremovable terrain (the left-pointing one-way wall), and turns. My solution relies on this behavior.

Genesis (e.g., on emulator): I have no idea. Who knows something about it?

I tested this against LemmixPlayerExtra.exe ("vanilla Lemmix" in this post) from namida's Lemmix Player collection. To play Lemmings' Ark there, put that exe in new directory, run it once, exit it. Edit the spawned ini file, set cheat codes to 1. Run the exe once again, press F2 in the main menu, enter code 0147 and hit return. During play, F11 pauses.

Thus, I assume that this is a backroute to Lemmings' Ark. I don't remember any other solutions, thus I can't judge how big of a backroute this is. Does this backroute make Lemmings' Ark too easy for its late spot in Redux (in the final rank Lunatic, level 30 out of 32)? Can you reasonably patch this backroute (I don't see how)?

Does vanilla Lemmix have physics identical to Genesis Lemmings?

-- Simon

[Simon]

The fun continues: I solved Lemmings' Ark in vanilla Lemmix in a way that fails conceputally in NL. To watch the replay in vanilla Lemmix, first start playing the level in vanilla Lemmix (see above post), then press L in vanilla Lemmix during play. A file browser opens. Select the replay from disk.

Reason for why this solution concept fails in NL:

Spoiler

NL builders have a belly check: They stop building when their belly is inside terrain. That prevents them from building into the miner tunnel from below.

Vanilla builders, having their head already in the miner tunnel, will continue to build until their foot reaches the terrain. The bridge will connect with the terrain and the crowd can follow upwards. A single builder suffices to build into the miner tunnel from below.

I dislike the belly check.

Is there at all a solution to Lemmings' Ark that works in both engines (at least conceptually, not necessarily frame-perfectly identically)? Ron_Stard's 2016 topic about Lemmings' Ark in NL, haven't played around with those ideas yet.



Linux-specific: If you're running vanilla Lemmix in Wine, the file browser (for loading the replay) might not play nice with fullscreen Lemmix. Force windowed mode by running
wine explorer /desktop=1280x960 LemmixPlayerExtra.exe

-- Simon

[ericderkovits]

I tested the Genesis Megadrive version of Lemmings using the Fusion 3.64 emulator, and it won't let one bash to the right against
the left-facing arrows after digging at the top of the Lemmings' Ark level either. It appears that only Neolemmix lets one do it.
Also in Superlemmini it won't let one either.  So the level Groupie 33 'We don't need another hero'  of Lemmings World Tour wouldn't be possible in Vanilla lemmix or Superlemmini since it's required in the Solution of the level.

Also Superlemmini doesn't have the belly check like Neolemmix, so the builder completes his build into the miner tunnel.

here is the Youtube video showing the level in Superlemmini. (no belly check).  I guess I dislike the belly check also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zZsmRoP4Bs


Also WillLem noted the difference in his post 'Physic differences between Superlemmini and Neolemmix Number 7" where it takes fewer builders to reach a thin overhead platform'

[Simon]

Thanks for the exhaustive research! I've suspected that vanilla Lemmix and Genesis Lemmings had the same one-way assignment behavior, thanks for making it 100 % sure.

Your video with the SuperLemmini solution largely matches how I solved it in vanilla Lemmix, barring which climber does what near the end. I speculate that your solution is really close to what the devs intended.

-- Simon

[IchoTolot]

Played through the first rank today.

Replays attached.

[IchoTolot]

Whole pack + talismans finished and replays attached.

[kaywhyn]

I have finally played and solved all of the most recent version of Lemmings Redux, and so I just wanted to attach my entire replay collection!

Also link to my LP of the pack in case anyone is interested: Kaywhyn's LP of Lemmings Redux Enjoy!

Many thanks for Lemmings Redux and job well done to the Lemmings community on a wonderfully put together pack! This was a great trip down memory lane, and as it turns out I have played pretty much all of these levels before, with the only new ones I haven't seen or played before are the ones from the ZY Spectrum and NES/SNES ports, except for the SunSoft ones in the last one. So really, there were only like 2 or 3 levels in total in the entire pack I hadn't played before! At the same time, there were also a lot of Genesis and Special rank PSP levels I couldn't recall or remember well enough, as I have pretty much played through them only once, and that was a really long time ago. Same thing with Holiday Lemmings, though I think I might had played it a few times, but that was way back when I was in high school. However, I do remember the Holiday Lemmings levels that are in the pack, I just don't recall the ranks they're found in. Needless to say, I've played and spent far more time with L1 and ONML, to the point I remember all of the levels in these two games and which rank they're found in, at least for Dos, though not necessarily the level number memorized. At least for L1 I don't have the level numbers memorized as well as I do with ONML. The latter game I have pretty much all the levels in order memorized, while L1 not as well.

Because I'm pretty much familiar with practically all of the levels, I decided to rise to the challenge and go for all of the talismans even though I normally don't go for them A lot of the challenge solutions are completely new to me and were huge struggles for me, and I must say they were very satisfying to figure out! If anything, they have opened my eyes to new solutions that I haven't ever found or used before whenever I have played the level. Not sure why Manic 14's talisman took me a long time to figure out, though!

Of course, if I remembered anything interesting to tell regarding my history with certain levels of the pack, I made sure to do so in my LP! One very good example is with Zany 10, where I remember the solution came to me one summer morning when I was lying awake in bed. When I first reached Havoc 10 probably about a week(s)/months prior, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to do it, so to have the solution come to me not too long afterwards was really a crowning moment for me. Yea, you can imagine the 10-year-old kid in me feeling really smart at the time with that level!

During my LP, I made the connection of how a lot of the level numbers match the number of the level from the game they're in. For example, going back to Zany 10, which is Flow Control, which is Havoc 10 in ONML. I really like this association with many of the other levels in the pack doing that a lot!  

This trip going through Lemmings Redux will be super helpful for me in making further progress with new level ideas for my upcoming pack Lemmings Memories! I haven't done any level making in a while now, so I'm hoping to get back into it soon Stay tuned of course for when I post more future updates on it in my level pack topic!         

[Guigui]

Thank you for dig cancel dig explanations kaywhyn and Proxima. Now for sure I'll clear We All Fall Down's faster.
Certainly this might make it possible to save 100% on I Am A.T., this level caused me the most nightmares back in the Genesis days.

edit by kaywhyn: I've went ahead and split this post and all the other ones after it from the Lemmings Plus Series topic and merged them with the Lemmings Redux topic in order to do some tidying up, since they kind of weren't discussing Lemmings Plus anyway

[chrisleec728]

Certainly this might make it possible to save 100% on I Am A.T., this level caused me the most nightmares back in the Genesis days.

If you're referring to the talisman solution in Lemmings Redux, yes, that is pretty much how you do it. The execution is insane though.

[Guigui]

Oh I did not notice I Am A.T. had a talisman in Redux.
Now that I saw the actual level again, I am not that confident : forgot the pit near the end of the wall, and you just dont have enough digger to dig-cancel through the whole wall pixel by pixel...
Execution must be hard for sure.

[namida]

Oh I did not notice I Am A.T. had a talisman in Redux.
Now that I saw the actual level again, I am not that confident : forgot the pit near the end of the wall, and you just dont have enough digger to dig-cancel through the whole wall pixel by pixel...
Execution must be hard for sure.

I would assume you...

Spoiler

dig-cancel to make a staircase they can ascend (without getting anywhere near the pit)?

[kaywhyn]

I've split Guigui's post and the ones after it from namida's Lemmings Plus Series topic and merged them with the Lemmings Redux one, since the posts discuss Lemmings Redux instead of Lemmings Plus

For example, this is what makes it possible to complete the WAFD (We All Fall Down) levels with only two diggers in NL, but if I'm not mistaken, the 2 digger solution on Dos is impossible. Instead, I believe it takes a minimum of 3 diggers to complete IIRC?

3 for Fun, 5 for Tricky, 7 for Taxing, 9 for Mayhem. Because no cancelling is possible, the best solution on DOS is to crowd the lemmings as tightly as possible into each digger's pit, so you need 1 digger per 9 lemmings (rounded up).

Thanks. I thought the dig cancelling is indeed impossible on Dos, just couldn't remember what you had said before on Discord about that mechanic. Thanks for affirming

Thank you for dig cancel dig explanations kaywhyn and Proxima. Now for sure I'll clear We All Fall Down's faster.
Certainly this might make it possible to save 100% on I Am A.T., this level caused me the most nightmares back in the Genesis days.

There's an interesting special case here in that on ports where you have the extra splat distance, the Lemmings will survive the fall off the platform on all the WAFD levels. Thus, this makes the WAFD levels completely trivial and hence can be completed with 0 skills! In my case, I had the CD that bundled both L1 and ONML together, which had the extra splat distance. I remember just letting a Lemming fall off the platform and to my surprise seeing that he survived instead of splatting!

Oh I did not notice I Am A.T. had a talisman in Redux.
Now that I saw the actual level again, I am not that confident : forgot the pit near the end of the wall, and you just dont have enough digger to dig-cancel through the whole wall pixel by pixel...
Execution must be hard for sure.

Oh I did not notice I Am A.T. had a talisman in Redux.
Now that I saw the actual level again, I am not that confident : forgot the pit near the end of the wall, and you just dont have enough digger to dig-cancel through the whole wall pixel by pixel...
Execution must be hard for sure.

I would assume you...

Spoiler

dig-cancel to make a staircase they can ascend (without getting anywhere near the pit)?

Indeed, there's a really good reason why I am A.T is the penultimate level of Lemmings Redux! If not concerned with the talisman, the level is easier but still not a lot easier. I definitely remember this taking me a while before I finally succeeded in getting the execution down when I first played the level on an emulator in the 2010s.

The talisman challenge solution for the I am A.T level is essentially the normal solution to it plus what chrisleec728 and namida described in the spoiler thrown into the mix. It is indeed a very difficult one to execute, especially if you do it on ports where you cannot assign skills while the game is paused. This level comes from the Sunsoft rank of both the Genesis and SNES ports, hence why these are listed in the author field for the level, and I do believe Genesis doesn't allow assigning skills while the game is paused, just like Dos. Luckily, you are given a lot of extra diggers. It is really precise, but there's still some leeway so that the 100% solution doesn't have to be super precise all the way through. In particular,

Spoiler

in NL, using the fact that Lemmings can ascend walls up to a maximum of 6 pixels for the staircase and with how you are given a builder to get the others out in case you mess up the staircase near the crowd trapped at the bottom.