Author Topic: Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]  (Read 27286 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 2434
  • "The truth is..."
    • View Profile
Re: Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]
« Reply #195 on: May 14, 2022, 01:59:03 AM »
I couldn't find any solution of Manic 12. Can somebody help me, please?

Here are my replays. The initial solution is a bit of a hack, but it gets the level solved. If you'd rather have a hint than a solution replay:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As for the talisman, the fewest builders I can solve this with is 1. Maybe these "1 Builder" solutions might help to point towards what the talisman solution actually is. It's probably something super fiddly and awkward, like (Method 2).

Hope this helps :lemcat:
« Last Edit: May 14, 2022, 04:15:18 AM by WillLem »

Offline Proxima

  • Posts: 4428
    • View Profile
Re: Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]
« Reply #196 on: May 15, 2022, 03:42:24 AM »
I have read several comments about that level and I know that you have to use some technical tricks in order to get the talisman, but I still can't see it.
The replays by Proxima were very helpful for me, but I couldn't find any solution of Manic 12. Can somebody help me, please?

Hints for the talisman solution:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Replay attached in case you decide it's time to throw in the towel.

Offline HansBertram

  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]
« Reply #197 on: May 15, 2022, 05:27:08 AM »
Ah, thank you!
The solution is actually much easier and less fiddly than I expected - very elegant!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now I like this level very much. :D

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3333
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]
« Reply #198 on: September 20, 2022, 09:26:02 PM »
Attached is a solution to Redux's version of Lemmings' Ark that conceptually cannot work in vanilla Lemmix.

NL allows physics that are impossible in vanilla Lemmix:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I tested this against LemmixPlayerExtra.exe ("vanilla Lemmix" in this post) from namida's Lemmix Player collection. To play Lemmings' Ark there, put that exe in new directory, run it once, exit it. Edit the spawned ini file, set cheat codes to 1. Run the exe once again, press F2 in the main menu, enter code 0147 and hit return. During play, F11 pauses.

Thus, I assume that this is a backroute to Lemmings' Ark. I don't remember any other solutions, thus I can't judge how big of a backroute this is. Does this backroute make Lemmings' Ark too easy for its late spot in Redux (in the final rank Lunatic, level 30 out of 32)? Can you reasonably patch this backroute (I don't see how)?

Does vanilla Lemmix have physics identical to Genesis Lemmings?

-- Simon
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 09:44:43 PM by Simon »

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3333
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]
« Reply #199 on: September 20, 2022, 10:26:09 PM »
The fun continues: I solved Lemmings' Ark in vanilla Lemmix in a way that fails conceputally in NL. To watch the replay in vanilla Lemmix, first start playing the level in vanilla Lemmix (see above post), then press L in vanilla Lemmix during play. A file browser opens. Select the replay from disk.

Reason for why this solution concept fails in NL:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is there at all a solution to Lemmings' Ark that works in both engines (at least conceptually, not necessarily frame-perfectly identically)? Ron_Stard's 2016 topic about Lemmings' Ark in NL, haven't played around with those ideas yet.



Linux-specific: If you're running vanilla Lemmix in Wine, the file browser (for loading the replay) might not play nice with fullscreen Lemmix. Force windowed mode by running
wine explorer /desktop=1280x960 LemmixPlayerExtra.exe

-- Simon
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 11:16:47 PM by Simon »

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 851
    • View Profile
Re: Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]
« Reply #200 on: September 21, 2022, 12:56:27 AM »
I tested the Genesis Megadrive version of Lemmings using the Fusion 3.64 emulator, and it won't let one bash to the right against
the left-facing arrows after digging at the top of the Lemmings' Ark level either. It appears that only Neolemmix lets one do it.
Also in Superlemmini it won't let one either.  So the level Groupie 33 'We don't need another hero'  of Lemmings World Tour wouldn't be possible in Vanilla lemmix or Superlemmini since it's required in the Solution of the level.

Also Superlemmini doesn't have the belly check like Neolemmix, so the builder completes his build into the miner tunnel.

here is the Youtube video showing the level in Superlemmini. (no belly check).  I guess I dislike the belly check also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zZsmRoP4Bs


Also WillLem noted the difference in his post 'Physic differences between Superlemmini and Neolemmix Number 7" where it takes fewer builders to reach a thin overhead platform'
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 01:34:54 AM by ericderkovits »

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3333
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Lemmings Redux [Easy-Medium]
« Reply #201 on: September 21, 2022, 01:11:04 AM »
Thanks for the exhaustive research! I've suspected that vanilla Lemmix and Genesis Lemmings had the same one-way assignment behavior, thanks for making it 100 % sure.

Your video with the SuperLemmini solution largely matches how I solved it in vanilla Lemmix, barring which climber does what near the end. I speculate that your solution is really close to what the devs intended.

-- Simon