Level Design Contest #25 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[Apjjm]

Here are my solutions for rule 1 - the levels were great fun to solve, nicely done to the level creators

1-Insert Coin Choose Lemming

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Creative idea with the lemming selection mechanism at the start of the level

I approached the solve on this by working out the order of the lemmings backwards: the exit area can be effeciently reached with a slider, and the disamer is probably going to go after the path is already largely constructed. I liked that the path each lemming takes through the central area makes good use of their unique skills. The way the slider reaches the end and uses the completed path was a bit unexpected and very nice finish to the level. I initially thought I would be bombing a lemming to let the slider down, though perhaps if I had thought about things a bit more I might have realised why that couldn't possibly work

2-Infiltration

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I found this to be quite a tricky level as it was quite hard to see how to allocate the lemmings up/down. Eventually I focused on the button in the bottom right and saw that really only the climber could reach it, which suggested the glider needed to go up instead. The diggers are cleverly placed on this one - in particular the one on the upper route. Great job with the various lemmings needing to use their unique skills on this level, especially given the compactness of the level.

The conclusion to the level where the disamer removes the row of traps as the various other workers reach the exit was satisfying and nicely done.

3-The Four Corners Of Cloud Seven

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A very nice builderless level. Harder destructive skill heavy builderless levels often make use of some kind of step-through area - I imagine with the skillset on this level (in particular the shimmier) it is possible to solve this level without using that trick (though I did end up making a step-through in my solution). Each of the buttons on this level telegraph that they must be hit by one of the unique skill lemmings, but the challenge isn't just getting the lemming to the button - it is often also keeping the others away too

Given the skillset, I imagine this one has quite a few distinct solutions too, so will be interested to see how other solutions play out here.

4-No Other Lemmings Gonna Do That

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I wonder if I backrouted this a bit, as looking at the level now I should probably have sent the slider down the left hand gap and shimmy above the clouds to hit the button.

A nice puzzle here & I like the concept of releasing the workers one-by-one. Deciding when the release the individual lemmings on this one (and how, given they could be released with a miner or a basher) definitely added to the challenge of the level. The main challenge I ran into on this one was towards the 2nd half of the level near the one-way wall - the currently released lemmings need to do two things: (1) reach the buttons & (2) only allow the floater & slider above the one-way walls - finding a setup that achieved this without trapping or losing a lemming was quite tricky

Each of the lemmings released felt like they particpated in the solution - in particular the climber was both very helpful but also a nusience for the tendency to climb back over the set the pillars near the teleporter-receiver into an area with a deadly fall.

5-Lemsicle

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The second half of this level is quite subtle and took me quite a while to spot . The swimmer does the heavy-lifting to start with by collecting the first two pickup skills, with the climber following up to resuce the 'lemsicle'. In my initial attempts for this one I tried to free the blocker by bashing from the right hand side after traversing the snowmen with the swimmer, but the climber is really needed to resuce that lemming effeciently.  I liked the design of the snowmen area and that the lemmings play stepping-stones to reach the exit at the end.

6-Its All A Matter Of Spacing

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Nice use of the laserer on this one

When solving this one I decided to focus on how to resuce the climber first, as seemed like the most tricky lemming to save - It turned out this was a good choice as it requires two lemmings to be able to resuce with the platformers. I liked the way the solution followed on from this point with using the laserer + updraft to bring two controllable lemmings into the lower area. I did end up with a jumper leftover in my solution, which I think is probably because I backtracked & assigned the fencer at the start rather than cancelling it on the land by the water.

7-Sports-tacular Athletic Rescue Mission

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A tricky puzzle with each lemming needing to reach a specific exit.

I liked that a few of the exit assignments were a bit ambiguous at first glance - it isn't immediately obvious where the the regular lemming, climber or floater necessarily go. Despite this, the solution still requires each of the lemmings with skills to make good use of them (in the case of the walker, making double use of the shimmier). I also liked that the blockers weren't freed the same way, one used a walker and the other a laserer. I thought the detail with how the builder was used to make the shimmier near the rope safe was nice too.

I completed this one with a laserer leftover, so I hope this is an acceptable solution - as it was satisfying to solve

[kaywhyn]

@Apjjm - You played an older version of my R1, and hence your replay doesn't work for the current version. I was confused why it wasn't working, but I figured out that it's for V1. Even with V2, I'm sure you'll get it solved just the same

[Apjjm]

I have re-solved your rule 1,  hopefully this one is acceptable

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A lot of the feedback from before still applies, though this time I used all the skills & the level involved using the shimmier in an interesting way to ascend up a ledge.

[The Tomato Watcher]

Great job to both Armani and Apjjm!

Armani, your solution to my R3 isn't what I had in mind, but since it uses all (non-decorative) skills, accomplishes most of the same tasks as I intended, just in different ways, and is overall clever in its own right, it's a perfectly acceptable alternate solution! (Also, it's supposed to depict two claw machines, but I definitely didn't do the best job with that.)

Apjjm, your solution to my R1 is spot on! And thanks for the couple nice things you had to say; my R1's definitely the level I'm most proud of this contest.

[Armani]

@Apjjm
Intended

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Glad you like this level. If there's one thing I really tried to achieve more than anything else it's making sure that every specialist takes their own unique route. It's pretty obvious that slider lemming should be the last one to go and then you can deduce only the floater lemming can go first and prepare the safe path for the others. Well done

[kaywhyn]

@Armani and @Apjjm

While I thought to say both of your solutions are acceptable, the way Apjjm used the shimmiers I worry that they can be used to cheese the level somehow. So, instead of making alternatives viable, I have decided for V3 to maybe force towards the intended solution with some OWAs I added. So, especially to Armani, sorry to break your solution there which I said was acceptable before I feel they'll make the solution too obvious now, but once again I might be proven wrong there

[IchoTolot]

@Armani Intended solution for my R3!

@Apjjm Totally acceptable solution, but there are indeed ways to solve it without the step-through/interrupting technique.

[kaywhyn]

Sorry for posting again so soon after posting V3 of my R1, but I didn't realize V2 of my R3 wasn't included yet. My mistake there, I should had checked before I posted in the update topic earlier this hour. I have now included the file to download in the update topic

[Apjjm]

I have attached my solutions to all of the rule 2 levels. This was quite a challenging rule to design a level around, yet all the levels here have been fun to play and solve.

1-Roiling Clouds (V1)

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Of of my levels
The laserer can be used from quite a few places & some leftover skills are to be expected - there are plenty to avoid other acceptable solves running into precision or timing issues.

2-Tightrope Planet (V1)

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I liked how this level uses both seperating a lemming from the back & front of the crowd in the solution. My first attempt just sent a climber ahead but the traps needed to be constructed over from the other direction which put a stop to that.

I had a builder leftover in my solution, so I hope this is acceptable.

3-Looks simple enough... (V1)

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Quite a tricky one - spotting how to contain the crowd effectively was the main challenge for me. I did like that the extra climber on this one is purely to release the lemming that frees the blocker, rather than a 2nd worker that turns the first around.

4-Steep Bee-scent (V1)

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Given the piece limit this is a surprisingly big level

I like the way the glider lemmings act as double-edged sword here, if you aren't careful about what path the crowd takes the gliders might just float on over the turning point (or the exit)!

5-Decent Default Design (V2)

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Very challenging level which I needed to come back to solve, but a very clever solution .  I have included an extra near-solve replay (saves all but one) which is roughly where I got to before coming back to this one.

Two areas in particular proved challenging on this level: (1) how to contain the crowd enough (2) how to rescue a lemming from the button area more than once (or at least once without the jumper). I was quite fortunate that I stumbled across the timing in my near-solve replay quite early on which showed that I could platform across to the middle area, whilst simulatenously continuing a digger underneath, but it took my quite a while to realise that I didn't need to assign the climbers immediately.

My only nitpick is that it isn't very clear that you can navigate the area under the steel without using a platformer. If this is the intended solution it would be clearer if the platform was thicker (or the steel a few pixels thinner) to give a few more pixels space to work with, though I appreciate the rulset restriction has an impact here.

6-Atmospheric Breach (V1)

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I like how the updraft was used as both a tool & obstacle simulatenously on this level I needed to work out how to sneak a glider through the updraft on the way forward, whilst allowing the rest through on the return trip.

7-Not much to work with... (V2)

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Nice 1 of everything level

The central terrain island gives a surprising amount of options to consider and work through. I did notice in one attempt that mining from the right to release the crowd would allow a glider into the other exit, but in the end I found a solution using exclusively the right exit without assigning the glider, so hopefully this is acceptable.

8-A Roundabout Trip (V2)

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This is a nice looking level even with the piece restrictions.

I solved this one by sending a worker over the steel to build the path for the rest of the crowd, I didn't end up using the blocker so managed to save all though it feels from the level name I still took a roundabout trip so maybe this is fine. I liked that the solution on this one requires that you partially construct the end area, but doesn't allow you to completely seal things up or platform from that island.

9-Minimalemism (V1)

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My first attempt here assigned the glider and cloned that lemming which meant it couldn't hit the button - holding the glider assignment and using a floater instead is a nice detail.
I managed to save 1 over the requirement here, but I'm guessing that was timing & the save requirement is a bit lenient here to allow using the bomber on the other ball if needed?

10-The 10 Piece Puzzle Rush (V3)

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1 second to spare

The climber assignments jumped out quite quickly - I liked slider+floater combo to switch directions. My first attempt fell short of the time limit as I did not spot that I needed to use the laserer to speed up the 2nd crowd as they don't have time to bounce off the 2nd forcefield. This is a good time-cruncher puzzle, very short and every second counts

[IchoTolot]

@Apjjm

Intended solution!   And the "nearly" was exactly what I wanted to block.

I totally agree with the nitpck here! I really need those few extra tiles though to either make the steel thinner or the floor thicker. This will indeed be the first thing I do to this level when including it in a pack!

[kaywhyn]

@Apjjm

R2: Intended!

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Ah, you fell for my trap of not using the laserer You will not finish on time without it. That's why the time limit is there, because otherwise it will go unused. And yes, a successful solve will always leave you with just 1 second remaining. I be surprised if anyone manages to find a way to finish with more than a second left.

Also, you can jump from the top platform instead to get past both the block and trap trigger and bombing the trigger away. In this way, there's a bit more leeway in the bomber placement. However, the way you used the bomber to avoid the trap is fine too. I'm not too bothered about blocking this out, as it would simply require that I lower the large steel block and small block together until it's not possible to bomb in the way you did, because it would also blow through the floor due to not enough height from the jump, though I think it would then either be splat height or close to it for the left entrance. The key realization is that you must go through the trap, as attempting to bomb anywhere else or in any other way other than the way you did it or the intended solution would result in them splatting or falling off the bottom of the level.

In any case, thanks for playing my R2, the replay, and the feedback!

[DireKrow]

Apjjm's solution to my R1 was entirely acceptable.

The solution to my R2 is very different to Armani and I's... but it does still use every skill, so I'll tentatively keep it as an alternate solution. I'm satisfied with my R1 and R2 being relatively open-ended.

[Kingshadow3]

@Apjjm

Both of your solutions to my levels are backroutes but I've made easy fixes to them.

[The Tomato Watcher]

@Apjjm As much as I hate to be "that guy," I made a V3 for my R2. I spent quite a while debating over whether to accept your solution or not, because it's really not that far off, but while it is decently clever in its own right, it misses just enough of the tricks I intended that I decided to update the level. Sorry

[Armani]

@Apjjm not quite intended I moved the force field a bit to the right so you cannot release the blocker and break the floor with a single miner anymore.

I resolved all the updated levels

Decent Default Design (click to show/hide)

attached two solutions. The second laserers in both of the solutions are quite precise, so I'm not sure if this is intended.

Not much to work with (click to show/hide)

This feels good now I use every skill.

A Roundabout Trip (click to show/hide)

This feels intended

A Digital Switchover (click to show/hide)

Now I use most of the skills and both groups reach the exit at the other sides.

The Lemming Calculator (click to show/hide)

My solution almost has been unchanged. I still have lots of leftover skills