Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records  (Read 32271 times)

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Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2020, 09:34:22 AM »
Quite a few improvements picked up by the community last night and this morning. (Thanks for your contributions) I optimised a couple more levels. Also, the Gentle 1 reads "0:17.82" as the result, despite being written as "17.18". Still, I hope everything has been recorded accurately. I refreshed the zip file.

My improvements
Lunatic 21: Improved to 1:54.18 thanks to Proxima's "Crankshaft Bomber" technique (I must keep a record of these techniques sooner rather than later). Still needs optimising for crowd release rate adjustments and narrower gap between builders. Also may need to look at holding the pack with builders if the trap builder somehow becomes an issue.

Manic 31: Improved to 0:47.18 because I took the lower "Vines" route rather than the higher "Gem & Steel" route.

Zany 4: is now 1:24.06, a minor improvement to WillLem's solution, but that digger wasn't needed at the end because he had 1 lemming available to lose. :P
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Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2020, 10:55:33 AM »
Building on namida's replay, got gentle 1 down to 17.12
Shaved some seconds off the first >1 minute level, gentle 17, time 1.13.82 [-4.30], but I'm sure there's more room for improvement.
Just over a second off gentle 19 too, time 38.18 [-1.76]
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 04:08:56 PM by Gronkling »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2020, 02:10:16 PM »
thanks to Proxima's "Crankshaft Bomber" technique (I must keep a record of these techniques sooner rather than later)

Interesting... what's the technique?

If you do keep a record of these, I'd be super interested to read it! :lemcat:

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2020, 04:45:14 PM »
thanks to Proxima's "Crankshaft Bomber" technique (I must keep a record of these techniques sooner rather than later)

Interesting... what's the technique?

If you do keep a record of these, I'd be super interested to read it! :lemcat:

OK then. See if I can explain somebody else's original technique well here. I realise I must also congratulate him for that too if I haven't already, so congrats, Proxima! :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2020, 05:27:29 PM »
Gentle 20 reduced a little bit to 30.06 [-0.65]

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2020, 05:41:13 PM »
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Offline Pooty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2020, 07:09:35 PM »
I have 4 more improvements I'd like to share.

Gentle 25 ("The Crankshaft") has been improved to 1:17.18
The Crankshaft (click to show/hide)

Gentle 31 ("Doomsday") has been improved to 0:35.88
Quirky 08 ("A Spot of Bother") has been improved to 0:52.35
Zany 01 ("The bridge is breaking down.") has been improved to 1:03.76
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2020, 07:46:33 PM »
Gentle 21 improved to 21.29 [-1.18s]
Gentle 22 to 24.53 [-1.71s]
I got gentle 24 to the point where I believe it's provably completely optimal, the last lemming to exit simply walks straight from the entrance to the exit, with no jumping up or falling down to slow them. time: 1:04.53 (-1.23)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 09:47:39 PM by Gronkling »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2020, 11:31:05 PM »
the Spawn rate (Opposite of Release rate)

How is it opposite? I thought they were one and the same thing ???

Also, thanks for the explanation :lemcat:

Online Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2020, 11:45:43 PM »
How is it opposite? I thought they were one and the same thing ???

They measure the same thing, but are inverted respective to each other. Spawn Interval is the number of frames between two successive lemming releases, so a high SI = slow release = low RR.

Specifically, with the revised type of RR present in new-formats, SI = 103 - RR and vice versa.

Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2020, 12:14:52 AM »
Slight improvement to gentle 26, 52.71 (-0.64), better is definitely better here though
Another very small one for gentle 28, 1.09.29 (-0.50)
And one for gentle 30, 16.71 (-0.64)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 01:05:57 AM by Gronkling »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2020, 12:46:14 AM »
They measure the same thing, but are inverted respective to each other. Spawn Interval is the number of frames between two successive lemming releases, so a high SI = slow release = low RR.

Specifically, with the revised type of RR present in new-formats, SI = 103 - RR and vice versa.

Ah, of course - that makes sense! Thanks for explaining :lemcat:

So, in the example given by Minim, the RR would be
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Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2020, 09:58:47 AM »
Plenty of improvements picked up by the community last night (Thanks once again! :thumbsup:). I also optimised some more Lunatic & Manic levels yesterday, particularly Lunatic 12, which beats the two-minute mark. I also managed to take two frames off on Gentle 22 this morning, partially due to the overuse on floaters, but have to admire the creativity of the rescue stair from the exit platform. Nice job!

Here's my full list from yesterday, apparently in reverse order...
Lunatic 29: 3:11.65
Lunatic 15: 1:17.71
Lunatic 12: 1:57.71
Lunatic 11: 1:38.65
Lunatic 10: 1:46.47
Lunatic 9: 1:26.06
Manic 11: 1:31.65
Manic 6: 0:18.24
Manic 4: 0:55.65
Manic 3: 2:31.24
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Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2020, 05:40:16 PM »
Did you see my other gentle solutions? Only some of the seem to have been added to the chart.
I managed to improve on Pooty's really good solution to Gentle 31 by half a second, new time 35.41 (-0.47)
Major improvement to Quirky 1, new time 27.47 (-10.00)
Huge improvement to Quirky 5, new time 1.22.27 (-40.44)
Quirky 6 -> 26.59 (-5.94)
Quirky 7 -> 2.21.12 (-2.64)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 02:04:12 AM by Gronkling »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2020, 05:32:59 AM »
Another improvement to Zany 4 LEMTRIS, with a totally different solution this time - 01:16.65 (-8 seconds) :lemcat:

Also, Zany 11 LemMing ToMato KetchUp FAcilitY in 00:27.71 8-)

And finally, Manic 30 POOR WEE CREATURES in 01:41.53. I tried various different crowd control methods for the end section and always got this same result, so I'm fairly certain this is non-improvable (by me, at least) :P
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 06:16:56 AM by WillLem »