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Offline Colorful Arty

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[NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« on: January 06, 2020, 03:02:40 AM »
Y'all. IT'S FINALLY HERE!

...or what I actually finished that is. I originally planned there to be 20 levels in each rank, and there are far less than that, but hopefully what I did finish is enjoyable!

For those who don't know, ArtLems is an art/classical music based pack, where each rank attempts to replicate a different art period with music from said era as well. The pack is going to be a lot harder than my other pack SubLems. Each rank has some pretty tough levels in it (except perhaps the first one), and the ranks don't necessary ascend in terms of difficulty (later ranks may have levels much easier than earlier ranks, so feel free to jump around the pack).

I may end up updating this pack with more levels in the future, since I feel bad most of the ranks only have a single digit amount of levels in them, but we'll wait and see.

Anyways, I hope you enjoy!


Download instructions

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8swxjfap205cmv0/ArtLems%20V1.1.zip?dl=1

Extract the ArtLems V1.1 folder to your levels folder.
Extract the artlems folder to your styles folder.
Extract the ArtLems Music folder to your music folder.


Ancient

The earliest period. This is before traditional art like paintings and drawings were around, but the levels will instead focus on ancient civilizations and their architecture, as well as natural environments untouched by mankind. Since there is no recorded music from back then, I've chosen music reminiscent of the various ancient places you visit. Most of these are tutorial levels, but you'll get a few tricky levels by the end. This rank has 16 levels in it.


Byzantine's Temple of the Lion


Medieval

After the fall of the Roman Empire, the Medieval period began. Now we have the means to create paintings and more beautiful structures. Religion is also a large component of the artwork. The levels are designed to either be modeled after Medieval locations or look like simple Medieval artwork. The music features lots of flutes, lutes, and pipes. This rank starts pretty simple, but the last few levels are quite difficult. This rank has 14 levels in it.


Church of Saint Stephen


Renaissance

And now that the Dark Ages are over, we enter the Golden Age of the Renaissance! No longer is the art dreary or bland, but now they are vibrant and full of color! Religious themes are still reflected in the artwork, and the music is more vibrant with a larger selection of instruments. The puzzles here are fairly simple, but elegant at the same time. This rank has a mere 5 levels.


Terramort


Baroque

The Renaissance is over. The Baroque period features more ornate art, with greater detail and emotion. The music has gotten more emotional and deep as well. The puzzles are much more complex than the previous ranks, with many working parts that need to come together. This rank has 6 levels in it.


Playing in the winter


NeoClassical

Now the art has gotten simpler, with strict rules governing how things should look. The music is also a bit more structured, with the piano taking the center stage. The puzzles have gotten trickier still, with some requiring severe thinking to suss out, but they tend to be smaller than the Baroque puzzles. This rank has a mere 4 levels in it.


For Elise


Romantic

Now the art is getting really passionate! Artists are focusing on making their art and music as emotional as possible. The levels are designed to make you feel emotions when you see them. Orchestras are larger than ever before, allowing for loud, complex, and emotional music as well. This rank is the smallest, with only 3 levels in it.


A Night on Lem Mountain


Modernist

The final period. Here I've meshed the remaining art periods after the Romantic period into a single rank. Modern art seeks to experiment with what can be made, regardless of if it looks good or works well. Classical music becomes more atonal to break the rules, and now video game music is used for most levels (to avoid copyright claims on people LPing this). The end of this rank features some of the toughest puzzles I could make. This rank has 10 levels.


Art's Abstraction
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 02:50:55 PM by Colorful Arty »
My Youtube channel where I let's play games with family-friendly commentary:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiRPZ5j87ft_clSRLFCESQA

My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/colorfularty

My levelpack: SubLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4942.0
For Old formats NeoLemmix: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2787.0
For SuperLemmini: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

My levelpack: ArtLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4583.0

Offline Flopsy

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2020, 03:27:30 AM »
Great looking level pack, a lot of work has gone into this level pack clearly.

Although you did not reach the intended amount of levels, the levels that made it into the pack all look very strong and challenging enough to make for a great playing experience.

Modernist Level 9 seems to not load for me however (Castle of frightful lucidity).
I tried loading it in the editor and it seems to be down to the following being missing.
ichotolot_pieuw_castle/objects/fire_green

EDIT: This is because I did not have the up-to-date styles download, just in case anyone else has this problem.
Flopsy's YouTube Channel

SEB Lems (160 levels)
MegSEGAbytes (40 levels)
Modular Lems (10 level minipack)
Gotta Go Fast (in progress)

Offline mantha16

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2020, 12:45:50 PM »
been looking forward to this pack hope my meagre skills are up to it.

Offline chrisleec728

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2020, 09:45:05 PM »
I've just played through some of the levels and I really like the design as well as some of the musical selections. I have a few comments mainly regarding the latter:

Ancient 2 (The Crypt of Ramses II) honorable track mentions: Any of the Egyptian-themed tracks from various Lemmings games (I actually recently made a playlist of them on YouTube).

Medieval 3 (Morgachov's Golden Manor): Is there supposed to be an ONML track here or something else?

Medieval rank honorable track mentions: Any of the medieval-themed tracks from various Lemmings games as well as Vurez' medieval arrangement used in IchoTolot's Lemmings Reunion.

Renaissance 2 (Oh Lord, my Savior): I'm perplexed as to what Schubert's "Ave Maria" is doing here, as Schubert (as well as Beethoven) was either late Classical or early Romantic (or both).

Baroque rank: Too bad "Sonnet of a Spring Morning (or Afternoon)" didn't make it into the pack as it's the only season not featured.

Baroque 5 (Out of the ashes of hell): It's possible that the "Adagio" often attributed to Albinoni (a Baroque composer) was actually entirely written in the 20th century by Remo Giazzotto, but it may contain enough Baroque-ish elements for it to work.

Modernist rank: What, no Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" or Schoenbergian atonality?

Modernist 1 (Minimalism): While my favorite version of Arvo Part's "Fratres" is the one for solo violin, string orchestra and percussion, the most "minimalist" version might be the one for string quartet as it contains fewer instruments and notes. (See also: the same composer's "Spiegel im Spiegel".)

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2020, 12:08:18 AM »
Thanks for bringing this pack to attention.  I don't have much free time nowadays to play levels extensively, but didn't realize this one has music selection taken from the western classical music tradition.  Now I'm a little curious to hear some of the music used.

One unfortunate terminological issue:  in music, neoclassicism actually refers to a 20th-century movement, a kind of modernist take on the classical approach to music.  The older period that it references and that your rank would correspond to (ie. the one featuring such composers as Mozart and Haydn) is simply called "classical" when it comes to music.  Now I do realize you are naming the ranks based on western art periods rather than music, so technically there's nothing wrong.  Of course, you then also have a level title reference to Fur Elise by Beethoven, whose music were generally considered more of a transition from classical to romantic.

But whatever, levels are levels and they look fun. ;P

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2020, 08:49:08 PM »
I downloaded this pack. Very artistic levels. great job.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2020, 06:23:08 AM »
ok finished the 1st rank(ancient)

here are the replays.

some of the levels were easy, but some were not so easy. Of course for me nothing is easy. I even got 5 of the 10 talismans which were in this rank.

Nice artistic levels(music is ok, not really fond of it though)

on to Medivial rank

Now I'm stuck on level 5(Medieval) If they exchanged the basher for a miner I could solve. Level is too hard for me.

UPDATE: Ok solved level 5(Medieval).
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 05:55:44 AM by ericderkovits »

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2020, 06:35:37 PM »
ok, finished the 2nd rank (Medieval). These levels were very hard for me. Probably the hardest was level 12 though. I even got the 2 Talismans in this rank (including level 12).
Probably my favorite level in this rank was level 11 (Church of Saint Stephen).

Anyways here are my replays for the Medieval rank.
.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2020, 10:03:48 AM »
ok, The Renaissance rank is finished (only 5 levels in this rank). These levels were quite easy. Only level 4 gave me a little bit of trouble. Still not too difficult.

Here are my replays.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2020, 03:55:11 AM »
ok, I just want to mention Baroque level 1 is not possible in 12.9.4 as the glider physics is different. I also suspected it.  In 12.94 the glider doesn't land on the terrain to the right after dropping from climbed terrain to the left of it. In 12.82 he does. So I am now using 12.82 for this pack unless Colorful Arty does an update for any
levels that won't work in 12.94. So if anybody wants to play this pack I would suggest 12.82 the latest one in 12.8x

Also Ancient level 11 I had to slightly alter my replay(due to glider physics) in my 12.94 to work with 12.82. Solution is still the same just had to slightly pick when to use the glider.
All the other replays work in both 12.82 and 12.94.

Anyways here is my Baroque level 1 replay(will not work in 12.94 only in 12.8x)

Also included my 12.82 replay of Ancient 11.

Also I got 1 more level in the Baroque rank to try to solve. Level 2. This rank is very difficult. I'm surprised I've solved all the other ones in this rank(outside level 2 which I'm working on)
Definitely level 6 of Baroque is the hardest(I absoluty hate the level). Even after I solved it, it still would take me a long time to repeat it.

Offline Armani

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2020, 04:03:59 AM »
ok, I just want to mention Baroque level 1 is not possible in 12.9.4 as the glider physics is different. I also suspected it.  In 12.94 the glider doesn't land on the terrain to the right after dropping from climbed terrain to the left of it. In 12.82 he does.


I played Baroque01 and I totally agree with you that the level is broken after the glider physic patch.
And I also found an (100% sure)backroute to the level.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2020, 04:11:20 AM »
oh wow, Yeah that would work in 12.94 since you didn't even use the glider in this backroute. I know the intended way will not work in 12.94 as you also agree. Thanks armani for the backroute replay. But I'll still stay with 12.82 since I don't know what other levels may be affected in the following levels that I'm playing(with the glider physics).

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2020, 06:15:11 AM »
ok, I solved level 2 of Baroque, so I'm done with this rank(only 6 levels) and only the 1st level(which had the glider issue) was actually easy for me. The other 5 were hard. But level 6 I think is
too hard, I think that level was too fiddly. So it isn't even a fun level even after solving it. And level 5 was real hard, especially to get the Talisman which I finally was able to do.
My favorite level in this rank was level 4, Playing in the Winter. It was a hard level but it least it wasn't fiddly once solved. Also the level is the biggest in size. But after many tries I solved it.

This rank had 1 Talisman (level 5) which I got.

And I think Arty was right, this pack is harder than his Sublems.

Note: my replay for level 1 will only work in 12.8x(maybe earlier too), but not in 12.9x, due to the glider patch.

Anyways here are my Baroque rank replays.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 06:32:52 AM by ericderkovits »

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2020, 09:43:24 AM »
ok, Neo-Classical rank is done.

Except for level 3(which is a nightmare-also super difficult and super fiddly), the levels were pretty easy.

Level 3 (Fur Elise) I liked the music, but abhored the level. This level to only have 5 builders; That is ridiculous. Should have had maybe 2 more. By far that level is the hardest so far. And it's
not even a fun level.

Also only 1 Talisman in the rank(level 1). The Talisman was easy to get too.

Anyways here are my replays for the Neo-Classical rank(only 4 levels in the rank)

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2020, 09:42:42 AM »
Ok, The Romantic Rank is done(only 3 levels).

Of the 3, level 1 took me the longest to figure out, although it was a small and quick level; only a few skills in the level.

My favorite of the 3 was level 2(Flight of the Bumblebee). Not too difficult, although it was the biggest in size of the 3.

Anyways here are my replays for the Romantic Rank

Only 1 more rank to go in the pack

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2020, 09:47:47 AM »
ok, The final rank(Modernist) is done. And that completes the Artlems Pack. This is the first CUSTOM Neolemmix pack that I solved on my own. Of course I've solved some of the original ones
(ie: Genesis, Original, Xmas, and demo ones of NL), but as far as someone elses custom pack, this is the first. So the replays are actually mine. I enjoyed the pack for the most park(minus a few
fiddly levels, like I'll be bach(Beroque level 6), and the worst level fur Elise(Neoclassic level 3-which I absolutely hated)). Many levels were difficult, but still many not.

And actually the final rank wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be(probably the trickiest was level 1 and level 9 otherwise I didn't struggle much with the others)
Probably my favorite levels in this final rank were Level 2 (Art's Abstraction-not too difficult) and Level 5(Hailfire Peaks-a little tricky but not extremely)


And I think my favorite levels in the whole pack were Level 8 of Medieval(The Highlands of Scotland), Level 11 of Medieval(Church of Saint Stephen), Level 4 of Baroque(Playing in the Winter),
and Level 2 of Romantic(Flight of the Bumblebee)


Also I found out that 2 of the levels won't work with 12.94 due to the change in Glider Physics: (both work though in 12.82)

1) Baroque level 1(Oh, suite handel) glider wont make it to terrain on the right from left climbing spot(as previously posted)
2) Romantic level 2(Flight of the Bumblebee), glider won't land in exit after climbing terrain left of it

So for this pack currently use 12.82 as 12.94 those levels above won't work.

Also my posted replays will be for 12.82(so those 2 levels will fail if one uses 12.94)


Ok, I will post 2 sets now.

1) Just the Modernist Rank(Final rank) as I posted previous individual ranks already.
2) The replays for the complete Artlems Pack.

Note: I'll will update My op list showing this packs replays.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 09:52:58 AM by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2020, 11:22:50 AM »
Congratulations on beating your very first NL custom pack! :thumbsup: You see? You're much more capable of solving levels than you give yourself credit for. Don't ever doubt your abilities. I been following along in your quest, and I can tell you were quite determined to finish this pack once and for all, even if it took you a lot of time to do so. There's definitely a first time for everything.

I took a look at the second level that you said isn't possible due to the glider physics. After a while, I managed to solve it, and it turns out that the level is still possible even with the broken glider physics. See my attached replay for Romantic 2. With this replay and Armani's backroute for Baroque 1, this means that all of Artlems v1.0 is solvable in 12.9.4. However, since both levels rely on the glider being able to reach certain areas, in Baroque 1's case landing on the area at the top on the right and Romantic 2 being able to glide into the exit via climbing without having to do anything else, it definitely means that these two levels need to be updated so that they're now possible the intended way.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2020, 01:58:47 PM »
ok, yes, I see your 12.94 solution. I do notice in your replay though after climbing it goes past the exit, but you continued to get the solution by using all the skills. Your same replay in 12.82 would have exited before, thus you would still have had remaining skills left.

Also This level I really like how you have to traverse to the right to get the switch before traversing back to start to enter unlocked exit. This level in the pack is one of my favorites.

Also there is 1 level with my replays I really dont like. I think it's a really big backroute, since I don't even get the majority of the pickup skills. It's the final rank Modernist level 6
"Circus of chaos II". I been spending alot of time to try to solve it by getting all the pickups but I always run out of skills. So I know my solution is NOT intended. But I don't even know if Arty
will do anything with this pack since he didn't even finish it by getting the wanted amount of levels in each rank. So I doubt he'll even do anything with fixing backroutes.

But at least now there are replays posted for this pack by me in addition to your Romantic 2 replay for 12.94 and Armani's Baroque level 1 backroute.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2020, 03:13:30 PM »

Also there is 1 level with my replays I really dont like. I think it's a really big backroute, since I don't even get the majority of the pickup skills. It's the final rank Modernist level 6
"Circus of chaos II". I been spending alot of time to try to solve it by getting all the pickups but I always run out of skills. So I know my solution is NOT intended.

I took a look at this level, and yes I don't get most of the pickup skills either. As a matter of fact, I checked your replay after I solved it, and our solutions are the exact same, except I also got the bomber pickup, meaning I ended up using both walkers. Also builder allotment was different in that I only used one builder before mining the wall before the exit, as well as used a builder to turn the climber back. In your solution, you definitely could had had a builder leftover in the end.

You never know, though. This level might be a case where some of the pickups are decoys and therefore it might not be necessary to get all of them, or if you do the level might not be solvable. Putting pickup decoys can certainly be a great way to fool the player into thinking he/she must get them all in order to solve the level, when really they can be quite effective at being red herrings, as tempting as some of them can be.

Quote
ok, yes, I see your 12.94 solution. I do notice in your replay though after climbing it goes past the exit, but you continued to get the solution by using all

Well yea, my solution uses 12.9.4, and that's the version where you have confirmed that the glider will not exit after climbing, and that's indeed what happens. The whole point of my solution was to see if the level's still possible in this version despite the broken glider physics. Since I have confirmed that it's still solvable due to solving the level myself, the entire pack is still possible in 12.9.4. Still, it's definitely great that you mentioned which levels broke due to the glider physics in the case that other players might want to play through the pack. In particular, I have plans to take on this pack later on in the future, so this is a nice heads-up. Also, it would had been nice to know ahead of time which levels might had possibly broke due to the glider physics, but since this is a small enough pack, it's not too bad, and also the fact that you didn't even encounter any such levels until somewhat late in the pack.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2020, 02:04:23 AM »
Also I don't consider your solution to Romantic 2 a backroute. It just took every last skill to get the lemming home in 12.94 where your solution was actually more efficient than mine because I only had 1 builder and 1 platformer left in 12.82 where your's would have had more in 12.82(just not in 12.94). But Armani's I do consider a backroute(he does too); because due to glider issue in 12.94 for Baroque 1 he had to solve without even using a glider. Also I figured there probably were still possible ways to solve Romantic 2 in 12.94 since there were more skills availiable.

Also the main reasons I played Artlems were

1) I wanted to have replays for the pack since nobody posted any.
2) I wanted to see if I could solve a custom pack on my own(since it seems nobody completed it). Also Arty stated he thought Artlems was harder than Sublems(although I think it's maybe about the same in my opinion. Especially since I'm not a very good puzzle solver.) Also I got all 10 of the Talismans in the pack.
3) I really like his designed levels and liked the music.(although in Medieval 3 his music title "Chef Manor"-listed in the levels music field of the editor is missing in his music folder, so I just replaced it with assyrian.ogg which I don't think he used in any other levels)
4) The Pack wasn't too big
« Last Edit: November 07, 2020, 02:17:13 AM by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2020, 04:45:55 AM »
Also I don't consider your solution to Romantic 2 a backroute. It just took every last skill to get the lemming home in 12.94 where your solution was actually more efficient than mine because I only had 1 builder and 1 platformer left in 12.82 where your's would have had more in 12.82(just not in 12.94). But Armani's I do consider a backroute(he does too); because due to glider issue in 12.94 for Baroque 1 he had to solve without even using a glider. Also I figured there probably were still possible ways to solve Romantic 2 in 12.94 since there were more skills availiable.

I am in agreement with my solution to Romantic 2 not being a backroute, particularly since all extra skills I had certainly don't break the level in any way. It just so happens that what I had at the end still allowed me to solve the level despite the broken glider physics. Also, the lemming is a glider to begin with, so there's no issue with never ever using a glider, which is very different from not using the glider on Baroque 1, which is definitely needed in the intended solution and hence it's definitely a backroute. I haven't seen Armani's solution to it, and I don't intend to until I solve it myself. However, the fact that a person solved it shows that Baroque 1 is still possible in v12.9.4 despite the broken glider physics.

It's important to note that a solution can still be a backroute even if all skills are used. I can name many examples from United. In the case of my solution to Romantic 2 in v12.9.4, it's really just unnecessary extra stuff I did at the end due to the intended solution not working as it should that's absolutely not needed had the glider functioned properly after climbing. As I mentioned before, it's simply to show that the level's still possible in v12.9.4. 

Quote
Also the main reasons I played Artlems were

1) I wanted to have replays for the pack since nobody posted any.
2) I wanted to see if I could solve a custom pack on my own(since it seems nobody completed it). Also Arty stated he thought Artlems was harder than Sublems(although I think it's maybe about the same in my opinion. Especially since I'm not a very good puzzle solver.) Also I got all 10 of the Talismans in the pack.
3) I really like his designed levels and liked the music.(although in Medieval 3 his music title "Chef Manor"-listed in the levels music field of the editor is missing in his music folder, so I just replaced it with assyrian.ogg which I don't think he used in any other levels)
4) The Pack wasn't too big

I'm definitely aware of your reasons for playing this pack, especially 1, 2, and 4. In any case, I hope that the experience has showed you that there's definitely truth in my assertion that level solving is just as hard work as level designing, sometimes even more time consuming, especially if the level is difficult to begin with. To add to 1, this reasserts what I said about "do it yourself" if there aren't any replays posted. However, I do understand what you mean by "I would had done it myself if I was a great level solver like yourself (me)." The fact that you completed this entire pack all by yourself AND without any replay guides is very admirable IMO and tells me that you're much better than you claim you are. This is far better than claiming that you won't be able to solve all the pack, because here you at least tried. Yes, it might had taken you a while, but you eventually managed to finish the entire pack in the end. Plenty of others, including myself, might be faster in finishing the pack, but that doesn't make you any worse than them. Who cares if it takes you longer to solve a level/pack than others? If you still manage to solve the same level in the end as someone who solved the level taking way less time, the result is the same and thus it doesn't mean you're worse. Maybe if it came to a speed level solving contest, yes, which I admit I would most likely lose as well, particularly if I was pitted against the ones on your top solvers list.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2020, 08:15:14 AM »
ok, here is my new replay for Modernist 6 Circus of Chaos II.

I managed to solve it by getting 100% of the pickup skills and use every skill. So yes it's possible. Although I think this is very hard to find.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2020, 09:14:21 AM »
Ok, nice job. Good to know that a solution which collects and uses all the pickup skills does exist. In this case, none of the pickups are decoys. I kind of suspected they weren't. I simply didn't spend enough time on the level to try and find the solution, especially since I'm not really seriously playing the pack or any of the levels at the moment. So far in my experiences, I pretty much have only encountered two levels where a handful were complete decoys, while there are also a handful of levels I played where I have no idea what the pickups are for, since sometimes I don't even end up using any or most of the ones I do collect. As I had pointed out previously, pickups can be quite effective in creating red herrings. That's why sometimes when solving, it's helpful to ask whether or not collecting specific pickups will help towards a solution while ignoring the others that won't help. In any case, as I have pointed out many times before, unless there's only one solution, I'm simply content with solving levels in any way I can, backroute or not. Not to mention that just because a level is backrouteable doesn't always mean it's a bad level, just simply one that hasn't yet fully blocked all easier, alternative unintended solutions.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2020, 02:42:00 AM »
ok, I made a suggested fix for arty's modernist 6(Circus of chaos II) level, so what I think is his intended route and solution. Also this level is in the final rank so I think this would make the level harder as it is now too easy for the rank(due to what I think is a big backroute(making level too easy))

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 07:36:54 AM by ericderkovits »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2020, 02:24:56 AM »
I tried playing Artlems with the new 12.10, but using this version won't work at all. There's a problem with arty's artlems styles for a few levels. And even putting his artlems styles in the styles folder, it says something about missing objects. I tried downloading them thru the styles update but still it doesn't work. Also when starting 12.10 with this pack it reports it's pre 12.7x. so I think
arty's pack won't work with the 12.10 version of NL. Arty's artlems is meant for older NL players. If one wants to play his pack, I think it's just better to stay with 12.82 plus the glider issue works as it
should in 12.82 (not even really meant for 12.94 although the 2 glider levels can still be solved. Baroque 1 thru Armani's backroute and Kaywhyn's replay of Romantic 2)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2020, 11:35:09 AM »
Nothing to do but for Colorful Arty to update the styles so that no problems occur in v12.10. In the meantime, it's like you said, just play it in 12.8.

Also:

Just a friendly reminder that level fixing should be left to the pack author(s). I'm sure your effort in a potential fix for one of the levels is appreciated, but we're not mind readers and hence we don't know if that's really what Arty intended. You can suggest fixes verbally, that's fine, but our time and energy is better spent elsewhere, and ultimately the responsibility is on the author, aka, Colorful Arty, to maintain the pack/level fixing. For everyone else, we just play the packs that the author releases and should simply respect the authors by not messing/editing the levels of their packs. The pack is, after all, the author's property. Why worry about something that's not our responsibility? Fixing the levels themselves is the least of our worries and should be left to Arty to take up since they're his. Even if it appears that backroutes won't be fixed, you never know. Sure, the fact that there hasn't been any follow-up posts since the release from Arty can lead you to believe that, but it doesn't mean that he won't do any fixing. He still might. Finally, he's still active here, even if he's not on all the time.   

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2020, 11:42:11 AM »
Yes ,ok I left Artlems modernist level 6 as is in my pack, so I have 2 solution replays for the pack. The one I think is a backroute and the one where I get all the pickups. Of course it is only a suggested fix, but I'll accept whatever arty does to the level to fix it, or if he doesn't fix it then ok. I do see him sometimes come online in the morning, even saw him look in this topic, so I'm sure
he's aware of it, but since he didn't finish the pack with the number of levels wanted, he may not even be interested in this pack at all even to fix backroutes.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2020, 11:46:43 AM »
Even if he's not interested in fixing up backroutes, it's not up to any of us besides him to fix the levels up. The best and safest thing to do is to ask for consent, but otherwise should be left to the author to do the pack maintenance and fixing.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2020, 12:04:35 PM »
Quote
Even if he's not interested in fixing up backroutes, it's not up to any of us besides him to fix the levels up. The best and safest thing to do is to ask for consent, but otherwise should be left to the author to do the pack maintenance and fixing.

Exactly.

Quote
I tried playing Artlems with the new 12.10, but using this version won't work at all. There's a problem with arty's artlems styles for a few levels. And even putting his artlems styles in the styles folder, it says something about missing objects. I tried downloading them thru the styles update but still it doesn't work. Also when starting 12.10 with this pack it reports it's pre 12.7x. so I think
arty's pack won't work with the 12.10 version of NL. Arty's artlems is meant for older NL players. If one wants to play his pack, I think it's just better to stay with 12.82 plus the glider issue works as it
should in 12.82 (not even really meant for 12.94 although the 2 glider levels can still be solved. Baroque 1 thru Armani's backroute and Kaywhyn's replay of Romantic 2)

Well, this is the same problem as before with some of the styles. Arty just never submitted his extra style to the standard library to get it fixed. I simply ran it through the style fixer and it works now.
I attached the updated style.

@Colorful Arty: Please replace your old style inside your download with the updated one. Then everything should work again. :)

At least it's working for me now. ;P

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2020, 12:11:48 PM »
Quote
Well, this is the same problem as before with some of the styles. Arty just never submitted his extra style to the standard library to get it fixed. I simply ran it through the style fixer and it works now.
I attached the updated style.

@Colorful Arty: Please replace your old style inside your download with the updated one. Then everything should work again. :)

At least it's working for me now. ;P

Precisely, hence what namida meant by the responsibility being the author's to make sure that the styles for their packs is up-to-date in the "what I need to do with my content" to prepare for v12.10 that is mentioned in the stable release topic.

You are awesome, Icho! :thumbsup: Confirmed, now working for me as well.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2020, 12:30:07 PM »
yes now the styles work in 12.10 too. Of  course Arty still needs to fix the glider issues as they still don't work as intended in 12.10 either.

Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2020, 02:11:44 PM »
I have been keeping up with reading peoples' comments and looking at solutions. This pack has tons of backroutes and for many of them I'm not sure how to seal them. Combine these with my general lack of interest in Lemmings these days, and you get someone with little motivation at the moment to update the levels. I WILL release an update hopefully in the near future with as many backroute seals as possible, but there are several levels that likely won't be able to be fixed.

Thank you everyone for taking an interest in this pack and for the feedback! I really do appreciate it! :)
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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2020, 05:51:39 PM »
I have been keeping up with reading peoples' comments and looking at solutions. This pack has tons of backroutes and for many of them I'm not sure how to seal them. Combine these with my general lack of interest in Lemmings these days, and you get someone with little motivation at the moment to update the levels. I WILL release an update hopefully in the near future with as many backroute seals as possible, but there are several levels that likely won't be able to be fixed.

Nice to hear from you. Understandable. It seems to just be one of those times where we sometimes go through several up and down moments in life. Happens to me all the time, but they mostly come about due to how I generally don't have that much confidence in myself and that sometimes I admonish myself for not having accomplished as much as I should have even after people have reassured me that where I am in my life is normal and that I'm doing just fine and have accomplished a lot (2 school degrees plus a teaching credential). I definitely should feel proud of these accomplishments, but sometimes I think and feel otherwise. Sometimes, I simply expect too much of myself, and when I don't meet these expectations I set for myself, I admonish myself, but I generally can get over these self-downtrodden moments quickly these days, especially when I set myself back and realize I'm upset for no reason other than feel I haven't done enough, as life's just too short to dwell on these negative moments of life.

In any case, other than just making sure the pack is still playable in the most recent NL versions because of how some people might possibly still want to play Artlems in this day and age, there's no pressure to fix up the pack ASAP. Just take as much time away as you need to until you feel motivated and ready to fix your own pack. You're doing just fine ;) 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 06:05:06 PM by kaywhyn »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2020, 06:36:32 PM »
Also, I really enjoyed your pack, Arty. In fact this was my first Custom pack I beat on my own, without any kind of help. Alot of these levels took me along time to figure out how to solve.
The most difficult was Neoclassical 3 Fur Elise as it was very difficult getting the bottom lemmings to the top as only 5 builders were availiable. But even if the backroutes aren't fixed, it still
a great pack. The only thing I would like is to get the glider issue fixed in 2 levels (Baroque 1-as it's solution(by Armani) didn't even use the glider due to the glider issue, and Romantic 2 as the lemming doesn't glide into exit after climbing leftmost tree as he does in 12.82). And also add the missing music track Chef Manor as Medieval 3 plays an amiga tune. All the other music is awesome
as I really do like classical music. Also the reason I played the pack was because Kaywhyn beat your 12 level Not good enough levels, so that's when I jumped in to beat Artlems. Also to me
those were good enough even if you don't think so.

Also as Kaywhyn said it was nice hearing from you.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2020, 03:24:29 AM »
All that's important for the time being is ensuring that the pack is playable in the newest NL version. Issues regarding glider physics and backroutes can be fixed at a later time. It's already been proven that the entire pack is possible in 12.9 despite the glider problems. The only thing is simply finding those alternative solutions/backroutes. All it means is that the intended solution relying on them isn't possible. Otherwise, simply play in v12.8 where the glider works properly. Not a big deal at all.

I'm also in agreement that your 12-level pack Artlems: Lost Pieces of levels you rejected was still good. Only one level was extremely annoying to execute, but the rest was still of good quality, I thought. Level 10 was a bit of a grinder to figure out, but it was still a fine puzzle/level, even if it was quite on the large side. These thoughts/feedback and much more on Lost Pieces I posted in that pack topic from some time ago, which I'm sure you already saw.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 02:54:01 AM by kaywhyn »

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2020, 12:19:52 AM »
RE: Chrisleec728

Ok, yes I see your thread here. Also it's nice your also playing the pack. I've already finished the pack as you probably can see in the previous posts.

And I see you mentioned Medieval 3 saying it plays an ONML tune. But when you open this level in the editor, it says it's supposed to play chef manor. But in Arty's music folder it's missing, that's
why it plays a default tune.  Anyways many levels outside of the Ancient rank(which you say you finished) are quite challenging(some are easy though). Also like you I like classical music.

Anyways, good luck with playing the rest of the levels. Maybe when you finish the pack, you can post your replays, so I can compare mine to yours. (Also I did get all 10 Talismans)


Notes on 2 levels(glider)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2020, 02:51:49 PM »
V1.1 has just been released! It features many backroute seals people have found as well as names for all of the talismans. I'm sure plenty of backroutes still exist, but they should hopefully be harder to find. Have fun!
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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2020, 03:57:47 PM »
That's good news. ArtLems will be most likely the next pack I play when I have finished PimoLems. And I will backroute the hell out of it :-)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2020, 04:21:36 PM »
Just downloaded the newest version of the pack. I can confirm that the glider issues for Baroque 1 and Romantic 2 have not been fixed, and so those levels are still broken due to how the intended solution relying on the glider cannot be done.

That's good news. ArtLems will be most likely the next pack I play when I have finished PimoLems. And I will backroute the hell out of it :-)

Great to hear this, Swerdis! :thumbsup: I likely won't play this pack for quite a while. Probably will end up LPing this pack after I possibly finish my LP for Sublems/Lemmings Plus 1. In any case, I eventually will, just for me not right away and for quite some time.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2020, 05:26:18 PM »
ok, great, Arty, Now I'll have to go redo the changed levels. I hope I can. So I can say I've finished a pack on my own. I'm kind of worried now.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2020, 05:47:06 PM »
What exactly do you mean by glider issues? All of the intended solutions are still intact, so if you can't use the glider to solve a level, you aren't doing it right.
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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2020, 06:45:29 PM »
There are 2 levels where the glider doesn't work the same in 12.82 and 12.10

1) Baroque 1
    check my solution in 12.82 where the climber after climbing left of hatch(then a glider) will not glide onto top right terrain in 12.10 but he does in 12.82
2) Romantic 2
   check my attempt(fails in 12.10 but works in 12.82) and Kaywhyn's solution in 12.82 and 12.10.
   Notice the lemming will not glide into exit after climbing tree left of exit(he doesn't in 12.10 but does in 12.82)

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2020, 07:28:50 PM »
What exactly do you mean by glider issues? All of the intended solutions are still intact, so if you can't use the glider to solve a level, you aren't doing it right.

I'm not the one who initially reported problems with Baroque 1 and Romantic 2 due to the glider physics breaking those two levels. eric reported them, and since I saw that you released a new version of your pack, I quickly checked to see if those two levels were fixed for v12.9 and beyond, which they sadly aren't. I'm also not seriously currently playing through the pack. For this reason, other than eric, who is currently the only person to have played and solved the entire pack in the initial version of the pack AFAIK, it's difficult to know exactly what levels have changed between v1.0 and v1.1, as well as what changes were made without a changelog detailing those changes :P Therefore, it wouldn't matter to me, since I won't know what changes have been made due to having not yet played through any of the pack other than finding an alternative solution to Romantic 2 to see if your entire pack was still 100% possible on v12.9 and beyond.

The reason why your replays don't break for these two levels is because you made them before v12.9, where the glider did work properly. You probably also didn't try your replays in v12.9 and beyond. Once v12.9 came, there was a fix which resulted in some levels breaking due to the glider opening its glide slightly later than usual, causing the glider to now be unable to reach certain areas on some levels in packs that were released before v12.9's NL release. As eric said, in Baroque 1, the glider fails to reach the top area on the right, which we're all certain you intended, and so any solution that doesn't use the glider, like Armani's, is most definitely a backroute. For Romantic 2, the glider does not glide into the exit after climbing the tree on the left side, but I was still able to find an alternative solution that still relies on the glider getting into the exit, but in the process the skills that I would have had leftover all ended up being used. This means that thanks to Armani's backroute to Baroque 1 and my alternative solution to Romantic 2, your pack was confirmed as still 100% possible on v12.9.4 despite the broken glider physics. The easiest thing to do in this case is to simply play on v12.8, where the glider works properly. Even then, you don't need to change your replays for the two levels. You just need to readjust the terrain in those two levels so that the glider is able to reach its intended destination and hence the intended solution is still intact for v12.9 and beyond.

To put more perspective into this, here's the link where the fix was made after some input from the community: Shimmier-glider no longer works in v12.9

ok, great, Arty, Now I'll have to go redo the changed levels. I hope I can. So I can say I've finished a pack on my own. I'm kind of worried now.

You can do it! ;) If you're not able to resolve some of the levels, I'll help in any way I can whenever I get around to playing the pack. Or, others who play this pack before I get to can help.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 08:05:08 PM by kaywhyn »

Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2020, 02:38:38 AM »
Why the heck were glider physics changed an a newer version of NeoLemmix? Didn't that change break a crud ton of levels across many packs? Seems rather unnecessary.

Oh well, guess I'll have to get the new version to see for myself. :P
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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2020, 02:57:39 AM »
Why the heck were glider physics changed an a newer version of NeoLemmix? Didn't that change break a crud ton of levels across many packs? Seems rather unnecessary.

Oh well, guess I'll have to get the new version to see for myself. :P

No, most existing packs before v12.9's release were unaffected by this change :P For those existing packs which did have some levels affected by the glider change and rendered impossible, luckily only a small number of levels were affected. There was generally only 1 or a few levels in those packs that were rendered impossible due to how the glider now wasn't able to reach certain destinations because of how the glider ends up opening the glide slightly later than usual. For example, if I'm not mistaken, Strato's LWT pack only had 2 levels that were broken (one was due to how the updraft was too low for the glider to use, although I managed to backroute his level by not using the glider at all). Seb Lems had one level that was impossible but it's already been fixed to account for the glider physics change. So far, the only pack I have seen that had a lot of levels (I think around 7) rendered impossible due to the physics change in the glider is United, but again Icho already fixed them, so the levels that were affected are now possible and solvable again. As the link I provided shows, the reason for the change was to eliminate the trick of a shimmier being able to glide to land on top of a full stack if you assign a shimmier when the lemming is right next to the stack, but more importantly, the reason the trick worked was due to a bug and hence the community agreed that the bug should be fixed and and hence eliminate the stacker => shimmier => glider trick. So, the reason this trick no longer works is due to how the glider opens up his glide slightly later than usual rather than early to allow this to happen. It was fortunately at a time when it was caught early shortly after v12.9's release and shortly after the shimmier made it into NL stable, therefore this change affecting a lot of future content won't be a problem.

Even with this change in the slight delay in opening up the glide, it still doesn't make too much of a difference in terms of what levels it affects the solvability of anyway, hence why I said most existing content was unaffected. The most important thing this change did was simply eliminate the stacker => shimmier => glider trick, but again it was due to a bug and it's generally agreed that bugs should be eliminated. Just be fortunate that this change in glider physics broke only two of your levels in all of your Artlems pack in v12.9 and after :P
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 03:15:32 AM by kaywhyn »

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2020, 02:34:35 PM »
Quote from: Colorful Arty
Why the heck were glider physics changed an a newer version of NeoLemmix? Didn't that change break a crud ton of levels across many packs? Seems rather unnecessary.

To prevent me from using Shimmiers/Reachers to have Gliders land on top of the stack they have just built. :P

No, of course not, but that was one of the side effects of that change.

I think the actual reason was an inconsistency, where Gliders would open their parachute slightly later in one situation than in others. And namida wanted to make that behaviour consistent.
If I remember correctly, they now open the parachute slightly later, which sometimes causes them to fall through updrafts that they could previously go up.

Thus, often the only fix that is required is to move the updraft area down 1-2 pixels.

In fact though, while I had some levels from Lemmings Open Air which used that Glider-Shimmier trick before, more levels actually broke in Lemmings World Tour (despite the absence of Shimmiers, just because of the Glider physics change). But only in New Formats, of course, so as long as you stick to the Old-Formats version, as you intended, none of your replays for that pack should be affected.

Funnily enough, other Glider-Shimmier / Glider-Reacher tricks are still possible, and my testers for Lemmings Open Air have even shown me their applicability in cases where I absolutely didn't intend such tricks to be used. (Even though, yes, some of the levels indeed had Glider-Reacher tricks as part of the intended solution from my side.)
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Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2020, 06:32:33 AM »
ok, good news. I resolved Colorful Arty's levels that he changed. So now I have completed version 1.1 of his Artlems

ok the levels I had to resolve were

Ancient rank

level 2
The Crypt of Ramses II
This level I resolved only for the Talisman, as Arty put a steel block near top left entrance thus breaking my v1.0 replay
This level is open-ended though, so it's an easy level, even to get the Talisman.

Medieval

Level 2 Under the Flood
Arty changed the level by removing the climber pickup and added the builder pickup. Thus the solution is a little different from v1.0.

level 9 Castle Crawl
Arty changed the level by adding a steel block at the top near the entrance. Thus breaking my v1.0 replay. Solution is a little different, but much more difficult.

level 10 The Secret of the Twin Falls
Arty put 2 thin blockades at each side near entrances thus breaking my v1.0 replay. Solution a little trickier. I knew my v1.0 of this level was a backroute.

level 14 The plague took us all
Arty added 1 more zombie guarding exit so it broke my v1.0 replay


Renaissance

level 1 By Land or Sea
Arty put the tree a little higher up on yellow terrain breaking my v1.0 replay


Baroque

level 2 Summer Sting
Arty made a slight terrain change breaking my v1.0 replay
Just had to tweak my v1.0 to work for v1.1

level 3 The Fall of Autumn
Arty added a steel block and a hanging Tarantula thus making level a little harder. Broke my v1.0 replay. New solution.


Neoclassical

level 1 Median meeting
Arty added downfacing OWW's on terrain near entrance and added a blockade near right hatch thus breaking my v1.0 replay. New solution.


Romantic

level 3 A Night on Lem Mountain
Arty made the 2 cloners pickup skills thus breaking my v1.0 replay. New solution. More difficult.


Modernist

level 2 Art's Abstraction
Arty made a slight change in terrain, thus breaking my v1.0. Still similiar solution.


level 4 Blue Badge of Honour

Arty added down-facing OWW's on top-middle block, thus breaking my v1.0 replay.
Solution somewhat different, but more difficult.

level 5 Hailfire Peaks
Arty just added a Talisman to the level (nothing else changed).
I got the Talisman. Version 1.0 replay still works, but just doesn't get the Talisman.

level 6 Circus of Chaos II
Arty put some hanging blockades left of exit, thus breaking my v1.0 replay.
I already solved this level afterwards even before Arty updated the pack as I wanted to get all the pickups, since I was unhappy with my 1st backrouted replay.

level 8 Flip-flop
Arty added steel, thus making level harder. Broke my v1.0 replay. Different solution.

level 9 Castle of frightful lucidity
Arty added right-facing OWW's on block near left-bottom hatch. Also made some small terrain changes. Broke my v1.0. replay.

level 10 The Last Straw
Arty added a thin vertical blockade right of hatch, breaking my v1.0 replay.


The other levels I don't see any changes in them as my replays work still.


So now I completed v1.1 of Artlems again on my own.

ok, here are my resolved level replays.










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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2020, 04:33:03 AM »
hey Colorful Arty, I just noticed your Hailfire Peaks(modernist 5) was a contest level(number 11).
But I solved it before seeing Icho's solution on Youtube. I was just going thru some of Icho's old contest design levels, and this level came up in Part 6 of Design Contest Levels number 11
(your updated version which is in both 1.0 and 1.1 of your Artlems pack.) But I saw Icho's solution after I already solved it, so this Youtube view was after me beating the Artlems Pack(1.1)
resolved pack. And I didn't even know this level was a contest level.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Swerdis

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2020, 04:34:18 PM »
Hey, having finished PimoLems today, I want to start ArtLems next - as I announced before. There was a bit of confusion in this thread if all the levels within this pack are solvable in the latest version of Neolemmix. Can someone confirm this? Thanks.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2020, 05:05:51 PM »
Hey, having finished PimoLems today, I want to start ArtLems next - as I announced before. There was a bit of confusion in this thread if all the levels within this pack are solvable in the latest version of Neolemmix. Can someone confirm this? Thanks.

Yes, the pack is confirmed to be 100% solvable on the latest version of NL, although there are two levels where the intended solution is broken due to the glider physics, Baroque 1 and Romantic 2. Instead, Armani found a completely different solution that doesn't use the glider for Baroque 1, meaning it's definitely a backroute, while I found an alternative solution that ends up using all the skills for Romantic 2 to get around how the glider doesn't properly glide into the exit from the left side. Other than taking a look at Romantic 2, I have not played any of the other levels in the pack. However, eric has played through and solved all of the pack. So, this means while the intended solutions for these two levels don't work due to the gliders not working as they should, they are still solvable. All other levels can be solved, and so even in the most recent NL the pack is 100% solvable.

However, you can simply play the pack in v12.8.2, where the glider does work properly on the two levels mentioned. In short, in v12.9 a change was made to the glider so that the glider opens his glide just slightly later than he does in v12.8. I have confirmed that the two levels relying on the glider are still broken in Arty's v1.1 of Artlems, meaning he apparently didn't fix the levels in the update, and so you should just play on v12.8.2 solely because of Baroque 1 and Romantic 2. The reason for this is to eliminate the trick of using a shimmier jump right in front of a fully built stack so that when it glides it will land on top of the stack. With the change, it's no longer possible to do so because the ever small delay in opening the glide up is enough to prevent it.

It's interesting that you're playing through Artlems next, because now that I have the next 3 LPs done, I am now going to be LPing Arty's pack Sublems ;)

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2020, 05:38:33 PM »
Yes, Swerdis as Kaywhyn just mentioned these 2 levels are the only ones affected by the glider change, so I use 12.82 to play

I have already finished this pack including Arty's fixed levels(Version 1.1). although I still feel I backrouted some of his fixed ones.

Once you finish this pack, I will compare your solutions to mine. I know you use Youtube to show your solutions

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2020, 03:55:10 AM »
ok, Thanks Swerdis for starting your upload of Artlems on Youtube. So far the first 6 levels there. I will watch your solutions to compare to mine as you upload.

Just for your Info I got all the Talismans in the pack. I noticed you didn't get it on level 2 and 4 of Ancient.

I also notice you are using 12.10 for this pack. Maybe when you get to Baroque 1 and Romantic 2 you play these with 12.82 unless your ok with the new player
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 04:15:14 AM by ericderkovits »

Offline Swerdis

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2020, 09:11:59 AM »
Hey,

yeah I started and like the pack so far. These first levels were easy of course, but not totally trivial. To be honest, I completely overlooked the talismans - this is nothing I normally put much emphasis on. But at least in this first rank I should probably try to catch up.

I always try to start new packs with the latest version. But are there any issues with 12.10 I'm not aware of?

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2020, 09:55:10 AM »
I always try to start new packs with the latest version. But are there any issues with 12.10 I'm not aware of?

No, other than the glider problem that causes the intended solution that relies on the glider to not work on Baroque 1 and Romantic 2. However, as was already stated, this pack is confirmed to be 100% possible despite the two levels being broken due to the glider physics in v12.9 and beyond. By playing v12.8, gliders work properly on those two levels, where on Baroque 1 the glider lands on the top platform properly, while on Romantic 2 the glider goes into the exit properly from the left side. The glider physics change results in gliders in some levels no longer being able to reach certain destinations that they were able to before due to the ever slight delay of opening up the glide later than usual. If you manage to solve Baroque 1 without the glider and find an alternative solution to Romantic 2 on v12.10, then you'll be fine playing on v12.10. When Arty released v1.1 of the pack, I thought he would had fixed these two levels due to the glider issue, but he apparently didn't when I tried them. 

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2020, 06:49:55 PM »
I've been watching swerdis's youtube solutions of Artlems on Youtube. He just finished the Medieval rank. some of these ones he is overcomplicating the solutions.

Offline Swerdis

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2020, 11:11:19 PM »
While this may be true, I think that the entire pack proves to be quite tricky so far. Much harder than Arty's other pack, SubLems, in my opinion. Thanks for watching, Eric.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] ArtLems
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2020, 10:07:27 AM »
Overcomplicating solutions on hard levels isn't as uncommon as you think. It's quite common, and so it's not really necessary to say that Swerdis made some of them harder than they need to be. I myself apparently have a bad habit of doing it on difficult levels. When watching to compare, unless the author has gone to great lengths to enforce one very specific solution, expect solutions to be quite different from one another. Also, most of the levels we don't even know the intended solution, and so for the time being just be content with solving the levels in any way possible, regardless of whether the solution feels or seems hackish. Some might mostly be "get to the exit in any way possible" type of levels, even on ones with very restricted skillsets.

That being said, I'm not surprised about Artlems being harder than Sublems. Reading this kind of makes me excited about how well I will get on with the pack when I finally get around to playing it in the future. I myself found even Arty's Lost Pieces of rejected 12 levels pack hard. There were two levels in there that took me a while. The rest I remember not being too bad, although one other level near the end took a while as well.