Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?  (Read 11370 times)

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Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2019, 07:40:21 pm »
With one person improving on the other solutions and vice versa I have to admit this really is a never ending rivalry between the two of us. For some reason I forgot to upload my Holiday replay bundle! I've put it up at the bottom of this post.

My Comments on WillLem's Frost and Hail solutions

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #106 on: December 23, 2019, 01:15:36 pm »
With one person improving on the other solutions and vice versa I have to admit this really is a never ending rivalry between the two of us.

I've enjoyed the rivalry, it's certainly pushed me to become a better Lemmings player! I've finally finished all the Holiday levels, results/replays above.

This has been a very enjoyable challenge! I look forward to the next one! :thumbsup:

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #107 on: December 23, 2019, 03:23:18 pm »
Nice work finishing off the Holiday levels, oh, and Merry Christmas! Here are my comments (The last ones :() on WillLem's Flurry and Blitz solutions:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2020, 05:41:06 am »
Nice work finishing off the Holiday levels, oh, and Merry Christmas!

Thanks Minim, once again I had a great time playing through this challenge. :thumbsup:

If you'd be up for carrying this on, maybe we could take on some of the forum packs that use original skills only! I'm thinking:

Let's Go! The WillLem Levels
GeoffLems
DoveLems
ArtLems
SEBLems
Reverse Lemmings
Oh No! More Reverse Lemmings
Doomsday Lemmings
Ski Sloping Lemmings
Zemmings

I'm sure there are loads of others, but doing a few of these to begin with could be a fun challenge... maybe start with the smaller packs?

What say you! ;P :lemcat:

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #109 on: January 16, 2020, 02:34:18 pm »
No problem, WillLem. I'm really glad that somebody's had fun.

This Challenge thread really reflects on the official levels. Custom level pack challenges can go elsewhere. I think Reverse levels would be quite boring, as most of these levels go from bottom to top, examples being Fun 2, 3 and 10, not to mention the Superlemming level. :XD:

As a compromise, I could set up the Extra Official Levels pack for you if you're interested, though that will be the last set of official levels. Hopefully we can find interesting new gimmicks here but it's highly doubtful.
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2020, 03:12:40 am »
As a compromise, I could set up the Extra Official Levels pack for you if you're interested, though that will be the last set of official levels.

Sure, let's do it. Even if we don't find any new techniques, it's still great fun to find your own solution to a level.

Where do challenges for unofficial packs go...?

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #111 on: January 17, 2020, 07:11:07 am »
OK! The Extra levels are out.

Also, yesterday I decided to check some of the potential nuke solutions, and I solved two of them so far: Genesis 9's "Test Map" and Sunsoft 18's "Sunsoft Special". The latter could probably be done using ccx's incredible "Lose 1" technique, the same trick he applied on Tame 1, though I've yet to learn this technique let alone pull this off myself.

Another two levels that may be impossible without requiring extra skills are Present 15 "Evil whisper" (Already increased the skill count to 50) and Present 6 "No time for a detour". The former has a complicated terrain layout above and below the exit, and also, you can't get across the steel block without having to use two nuke bombers. In the latter, because there's so little time and there's no way to work around the flame without nuking you'll need to clone an awful lot of lemmings to make the long route work in the time limit, particularly around the leader. Using the skills provided the I can get the first lemming recorded in as early as frame 896. Considering there are 1020 frames and therefore 124 frames (around 7 seconds) to work around, that's not much leeway at all, and makes the challenge on this level tedious to execute.
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #112 on: January 26, 2020, 12:35:12 am »
Finished Genesis levels. I thoroughly enjoyed these, there are quite a lot of new tricks and solutions which surprisingly fit the new skill set very well! The levels with a Lemcat :lemcat: next to them are those which I feel are particularly good: almost like they were made for the new skills.

Looking forward to seeing how you got on with these!

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #113 on: January 27, 2020, 10:06:24 am »
Ah, sorry for the late response WillLem. I was busy inspecting all the levels for nuke solutions and then I lost interest in it for a moment, therefore I haven't kept myself a complete record. Thanks for your continued interest in this Challenge thread. Also yesterday, I seemed to have dozed off while watching your replays for the first half of the rank! I must remind myself to take a closer look at these replays again soon. At least I was still able to make some significant improvements in some of the later levels.

Anyway, out of all levels, I've confirmed that 2P 30 and Sunsoft 25 are the remaining levels that are possible with nuke. These replays are in the bundle along with my initial attempt at Present 6.

Now, some comments on the Genesis levels:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #114 on: January 28, 2020, 03:25:12 pm »
Ah, sorry for the late response WillLem. I was busy inspecting all the levels for nuke solutions and then I lost interest in it for a moment, therefore I haven't kept myself a complete record.

No worries, it's good to have this as something to come back to every now and again so no rush on it.

Now, some comments on the Genesis levels:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thanks for your kind comments, I think these levels lent themselves really well to the newskills format. Well done on the improvements: you often see things I miss so it's good to see a different approach.

Genesis 44 is another one where if only there was a ledge for the swimmer to climb out of, it'd be a perfect solve!

Anyways, some of the Present levels are the same as the Genesis ones, so for those I've just kept the same score/replay. For ease of data-gathering though, I'll present records as a full set. The Sunsoft ones are slight variations which make the levels slightly more difficult!

I'm looking forward to getting to the 2P ones!

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #115 on: January 29, 2020, 09:29:20 pm »
Added my results for Present & Sunsoft. There was quite a run of Sunsoft levels that required additional original skills to get a 100% solution, and with Sunsoft 14 No world without you being the same as Genesis 43 A group of entrances, and one that I just didn't want to spend the time stack-building on all over again, I found a nice elegant 2 of each solution by adding climbers as well: check it out! :lemcat:

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #116 on: January 30, 2020, 06:38:43 pm »
Tihis time, I've decided to have a go at all the Present and Sunsoft levels too. All improvement replays (and a few older ones too) attached in the bundle. There are lots of levels to comment on here, so I've split them into two separate spoiler tags.

Present Comments
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sunsoft Comments
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #117 on: January 31, 2020, 12:01:03 am »
Loved your solutions to Present 7, 14 (this one in particular - very neat!), and Sunsoft 16, 20 and 30 - some genius stuff going on here.

The trick you used in Sunsoft 24; I'm wondering whether it could have made a difference in some of the previous levels! That said, I'm finding that stackers and fencers tend to be used at a very similar rate, and saving one often means you have to use the other. That said, you tend to do a great job of saving both!

Regarding Sunsoft 14 and 15 - I was actually talking about 14 with the climber. It's the same solution as a previous Genesis level (A group of entrances) and I just really didn't fancy going at it with all those stackers again so I added a climber. I know that's technically against the rules of this challenge, but since it's essentially the same level as before but with only 2 lems, I just went ahead for the sake of experimentation.

Same with Sunsoft 15 - I just wasn't in a stacker mood so I added the climber again! :P

With Sunsoft 23, I think I just genuinely didn't see the same solution as last time, but I generally do like to try out different things when presented with the same challenge again... I guess in this case it cost me a few skills!

On with the 2Player levels now I think! I've played through them again with the regular skills just for fun; I made it so that each exit would only let 50% of the Lemmings in - makes for some quite interesting challenges! Looking forward to see how they can be tackled with the new skills... :lemcat:

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #118 on: February 02, 2020, 03:54:14 am »
Results updated for 2-Player and Sega levels. The Sega levels are the first batch to not contain any impossible/nuke-solution levels (although tbf there are only 12 levels!), and the 2-Players are the first to contain levels requiring the use of 0 skills! An interesting bunch...

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #119 on: February 02, 2020, 11:04:59 am »
I tried the 2P levels as well, along with the first 3 levels of SEGA. Thanks for completing these. I went off those after trying to find the best solution for SEGA 3. Anyway, more comments on the 2P levels and one of the SEGA levels, but beforehand I'll post some of my non 100% results here.

8: 5 of each, lost 1
20: 3 of each, lost 1
30: 30 of each, lost 30

The first two are straightforward as you need to go round the outside of the level. On 8, the left side is shorter than the right. 30 is a more optimised nuke solution. Here I basically edited its text file by removing 10 cloner assignments, and voila!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.