Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?  (Read 8798 times)

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Online namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #90 on: November 29, 2019, 02:07:40 am »
Quote
I've now included my replays & results for the Xmas '91 & '92 levels. Alas - we still don't have a set of results without at least 1 impossible level (unless you count Xmas '92 as its own set - no reason why we shouldn't, I suppose!)

Every level in Covox is solved, according to the first post.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2019, 06:06:09 am »
Original and OhNo sets have been re-released! Mainly to make sure that all levels are playable without steel areas. Per this post.

Note that this re-release changes Tricky 28 ("Lost Something?") so that the steel the exit sits on is now fully steel.  So the lose 0 solution that relies on the vines causing non-steel fractures no longer work, only the nuke solution would work (once you increase the skills count).

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2019, 08:11:34 am »
Thanks for this. I can see that the level has been changed in the new version of NL and updated the thread for you.
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline Crane

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2019, 10:03:55 am »
This one's bugging me... is there a 7 skills, 0 loss solution to Mayhem 30 or is it a typo? Because I can't find said solution... only 7 skills, 1 loss or 8 skills, 0 losses.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #94 on: November 29, 2019, 10:45:58 am »
Prima Tricky 2 solved with a nuke solution achieving 22 of each, lose 32.  Some key points of the solution noted below in spoilers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Covox Taxing 2: 5 of each, lose 5.
Covox Mayhem 2: 3 of each, lose 1.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2019, 03:03:29 pm »
Improving the Tame 1 nuke solution to 1 of each, lose 15.

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2019, 04:56:25 pm »
Nice work, ccexplore! I also tried to reduce it too by counting the frames and knew that theoretically once the shimmier exploded the first fifteen would die and the stxteenth onwards would be able to reach the exit. At that time I forgot that the nuke can bomb below the exit trigger. That was until I saw that Prima replay you've uploaded a few days ago.

I thought I might upload my results for Holiday Lemmings. This pack seems to be more problematic than the others, as I discovered 9 levels so far which are impossible, with 5 of them potentially requiring a nuke solution. Looks like more frame counting needs to be done to take care of those pukes of levels. >:( Replays to some of the levels attached in a bundle. Any questions please ask. Thanks.

Frost
1: 2 of each, lost 1 OR 3 of each
2: 1 of each
3: 2 of each
4: 1 of each
5: 2 of each
6: 1 of each, lost 1 OR 2 of each
7: 3 of each
8: 1 of each
9: 1 of each
10: No solutions Found
11: 1 of each
12: No solutions Found
13: 1 of each
14: 3 of each
15: 2 of each
16: 1 of each

Hail
1: 8 of each
2: 2 of each
3: 11 of each
4: 4 of each
5: 3 of each
6: 0 of each, lost 41 OR 5 of each, lost 27
7: 9 of each
8: 6 of each
9: No Solutions Found
10: 3 of each
11: 4 of each
12: 2 of each
13: 3 of each
14: 9 of each
15: 3 of each
16: 1 of each, lost 1 OR 10 of each

Flurry
1: 3 of each
2: 2 of each
3: 1 of each
4: 2 of each
5: No Solutions Found (Nuke?)
6: 6 of each
7: 6 of each
8: 7 of each
9: 2 of each
10: 6 of each
11: No Solutions Found (Nuke?)
12: 1 of each
13: 1 of each
14: 2 of each
15: 1 of each
16: 6 of each, lost 1

Blitz
1: 6 of each
2: 6 of each
3: No Solutions Found (Nuke?)
4: 4 of each
5: 4 of each
6: 3 of each
7: 5 of each
8: 1 of each
9: 7 of each
10: 2 of each
11: 7 of each
12: No Solutions Found (Nuke?)
13: 6 of each
14: No Solutions Found (Nuke?)
15: 5 of each
16: No Solutions Found (Nuke?)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 06:40:46 am by Minim »
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2019, 11:12:20 pm »
Doesn't Blitz 14 also potentially allow for a nuke solution?  The fencer does let you get directly overhead the hidden exit.  Very high up for sure, but far enough left to be directly overhead.

Surprising how this pack ends up with so many levels set up for nuking. :XD: Coming from other packs, I didn't think there'd be more than one or two others beyond Hail 6.

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2019, 06:39:08 am »
I hadn't tested Blitz 14 there. Good point. Having now investigated this level, and to make this possible with the high requirement, I'll re-upload this level by adding 40 of each. I'll also take a look at the others and do the same if need be.

Also, I quickly improved Hail 6 to 1x, lose 18 using the cloned stacker technique.
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2019, 12:40:09 pm »
Ok, here's a nuke solution for Tame 1 that uses 15 each and believe it or not, loses just 1!

This exploits the fact that oh-noers can still exit successfully, even one that's one frame away from exploding when reached the exit trigger.  Calling that out now in case future versions of NeoLemmix changes that behavior.  A lemming that is assigned stacker, platformer or fencer will transition to oh-noer when their nuke timer's up, and before that they will also continue carrying out their skill even in mid-air,  such as from some other lemming's explosion taking out the ground they are on.  When they oh-no, due to being in mid-air they will fall as oh-noers.

So the lemmings that would've exploded early mid-fall gets to fall down as oh-noers instead, which would delay their explosion, and with a short enough fall like on this level, they can reach the exit before their scheduled explosion can occur.  Once hitting the exit trigger, the oh-no lemming "forgets" about its pending explosion and will exit successfully.

The main trickiness with realizing this solution is that NeoLemmix doesn't allow multiple (simultaneous) skill assignments to different lemmings on same frame.  In order to have enough frames to assign skills to all affected lemmings, you have to start assigning a bit further back from when the first lemming explodes.  And it turns out it's not easy to keep a lemming doing stacker, platformer or fencer for that long.  In my solution I had to carefully control how the lemmings overlap in position so the stacking doesn't stop prematurely, and also need to use bashers fencers to extend their mid-air stance until they can oh-no.  (When you have multiple stackers at exact same position and facing direction, it seems that after the second stack brick has been laid down, the game will inevitably stop all but one stacker.)

There are likely a few more nuke levels where this technique can be used.  The key is having a short enough fall to the exit.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 08:20:08 pm by ccexplore »

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2019, 02:14:03 pm »
The main trickiness with realizing this solution is that NeoLemmix doesn't allow multiple (simultaneous) skill assignments to different lemmings on same frame.  In order to have enough frames to assign skills to all affected lemmings, you have to start assigning a bit further back from when the first lemming explodes.  And it turns out it's not easy to keep a lemming doing stacker, platformer or fencer for that long.  In my solution I had to carefully control how the lemmings overlap in position so the stacking doesn't stop prematurely, and also need to use bashers to extend their mid-air stance until they can oh-no.  (When you have multiple stackers at exact same position and facing direction, it seems that after the second stack brick has been laid down, the game will inevitably stop all but one stacker.)

Or, you could try typing in the solution on Notepad and hope it works. :sick:

Saw this replay. Insanely cool indeed. :o This method harks back to one of namida's LPIII levels. I'm sure Hail 6 would work in similar fashion too. The fall might be greater but at least the platform below the exit is steel.
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2019, 09:25:31 am »
Just letting everyone know that I solved almost all the nuke levels from Holiday Lemmings (but not optimised), upping the total to 60. Replays attached. The only nuke solution still left to find is Blitz 14. It is literally a "catastrophic anomaly" in comparison to the rest. Because we're bombing through all terrain, after the nukers land on the first pixel of terrain, they "drift off". In other words they move a pixel every time they land, making the predicted landing place too far away from the exit trigger. Here's a diagram that explains the problem. Theoretically it is still doable, but where to start clone-stacking will unfortunately take a bit of experimenting. :XD:
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2019, 10:13:42 am »
Wow, good job! :thumbsup:  I didn't really have time this week to try any levels for this challenge.

For Blitz 14, can you attach the replay for the failed attempt?  It's still a good place to start tweaking from.

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2019, 12:54:28 pm »
Thanks for the praise. 8-)

For Blitz 14, can you attach the replay for the failed attempt?  It's still a good place to start tweaking from.

Ah, just saw this now. I went back and solved it. I'll show the failed replay anyway, and attach the solved replays in a zip file.
My result is 50 of each, lost 35.
Musical fact: All of Tim Wright's compositions for Original Lemmings are 125 BPM.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.3] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2019, 04:00:47 pm »
Finally got around to starting the Holiday levels! Finished Frost & Hail so far, results/replays above.

These have been some fairly tricky levels. I've made a few improvements here and there, but there are some that I can't figure out how you managed to get such a good score (particularly Hail 4 & 5)... :lem-mindblown: