Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?  (Read 48903 times)

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Offline Crane

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2019, 12:09:58 AM »
Another improvement.  7 skills, 0 losses for Mayhem 18.  In truth, the 6 skills, 2 losses solution might be reducible to 6 skills, 1 loss if the leftmost Stoner is replaced with a Glider/Cloner combo.

(Note... on the overall tally on the first page, Mayhem 30 should say "7 skills, 1 loss OR 8 skills, 0 losses", unless you found a way to save that lemming.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 05:55:06 AM by Crane »

Offline Crane

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2019, 06:37:40 AM »
First attempts at the first few Wicked levels.

Wicked 1: 5 skills, 0 losses
Wicked 2: impossible
Wicked 3: 3 skills, 0 losses (can be easily changed to 2 skills, 1 loss if you replace the first Stacker with a Stoner)
Wicked 4: 9 skills, 0 losses (can be easily changed to 8 skills, 1 loss if you replace the rightmost Stacker with a Stoner)
Wicked 5: 1 skill, 0 losses
Wicked 6: 5 skills, 2 losses
Wicked 7: 3 skills, 0 losses
Wicked 8: 4 skills, 0 losses (no replay attached, but simple enough... 4 Fencers, one after the other, then a Platformer, and use a Glider or Walker on the lemming that will step off the incomplete bridge).

There also seems to be a player bug... changing the release rate while the game is paused doesn't get recorded in the replays.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 06:57:00 AM by Crane »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2019, 07:36:58 AM »
Finally got Fun 8 down to 1 of each, lost 0.  Also works on the repeat, Tricky 22.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2019, 07:54:32 AM »
Tweaked Proxima's Mayhem 3 solutions to "2 of each, lost 1 OR 3 of each, lost 0".  Despite some leftover skills in 2 of each, one of each seems to be just out of reach so far. :(

Finally found the elusive "1 of each, lost 1" solution for Mayhem 3, it's a totally different solution from Proxima's.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2019, 08:05:17 AM »
Fun 24 (easier version of Mayhem 3) improved to 1 of each, lost 0.  This is yet different solution from Mayhem 3's 1 of each lost 1, but cannot work on Mayhem 3 due to its tighter time limit.

Offline Crane

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2019, 08:47:11 AM »
Nice work ccexplore.  I decided to have a bash at some of the later Havoc levels, because why not?!

Havoc 10 - 1 skill, 0 losses
Havoc 11 - impossible
Havoc 17 - 1 skill, 1 loss OR 2 skills, 0 losses
Havoc 18 - 9 skills, 0 losses
Havoc 19 - 4 skills, 0 losses
Havoc 20 - 5 skills, 0 losses

Offline Crane

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2019, 09:00:23 AM »
And a handful of earlier Havoc levels.

Havoc 1 - 3 skills, 2 losses OR 4 skills, 0 losses
Havoc 5 - 4 skills, 0 losses
Havoc 9 - 3 skills, 0 losses
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 09:19:51 AM by Crane »

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2019, 10:27:06 AM »
Phew! Having a hard time keeping up with these replays! Keep 'em coming though. ;) I'm still on the lookout for any potential errors here and there, like I just found with WillLem's Wicked 17 solution.

Comments on WillLem's Wild levels.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As for Wild 8: I think you're right that a save-all solution is impossible with low time-limit here, and given that the wall and the drop are too steep I probably won't re-release this level.

And now, the Wicked levels
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

BTW, really enjoyed Crane's solution to Mayhem 8! Cool concept indeed. Oh, and about ccx's newest solution to Fun 8/Tricky 22: I wonder if this trick can be repeated for Wicked 16?

Anyway, let's get on to Havoc (Crane).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, more of my results from Taxing.
15: 4 of each, lost 1
Was inspired by ccx's under route for Fun 5 and decided to use it here too. Replay attached.

20: 6 of each
Went under the first web and managed to save 2 fencers going that route. The web you land on first is annoying, as you can't platform straight after fencing. Because of that, I can't see 5x being possible.

23: 11 of each, lost 1
The start was pretty tough with the high release rate. This result I think can be improved.

24: 1 of each
Not actually too hard if you look at the terrain's layout. Remember to increase the release rate here.

27: 4 of each
Needed three stackers to reach the ledge, along with something else to create a holding pit; followed by a platformer and three fencers to break through the ceiling safely.

Really annoyed with Taxing 25 at the moment. The exit platform is reachable with 2 of each, like in Fun 19 but there aren't enough skills to prevent too many lemmings from dying. I wonder if precise adjusting the release rate at the right times will help get this bridge done more quickly, and thus save enough lemmings for the lowest x.

The results and the next version of OhNo will be uploaded in a few minutes time.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2019, 12:43:33 PM »
As for Wild 8: I think you're right that a save-all solution is impossible with low time-limit here, and given that the wall and the drop are too steep I probably won't re-release this level.

Actually it turns out to be possible, but you also won't need to re-release the level after all, because 10 of each is sufficient to lost 0.  Barely make it in time though!

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #69 on: November 23, 2019, 12:52:49 AM »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Something was going wrong with the Wild 13 replay you attached at first, but then I realised I had to edit my copy for 65 of each skill! This is a brilliant solution, I love the overlapping worker Lemmings to build that final bridge. I think this copious-skill approach is the only way to get it down to under the time limit. I could only manage it in 30 seconds over the time limit. Well sussed out!

You've discovered some great tricks here - there are probably quite a few levels where cloning stackers would bring the overall skill count down. I don't have anywhere near the level of tenacity to go back and do this, I'm pretty happy with my results and I'm glad people are finding ways to improve the scores!
 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Whoops! These were genuine mistakes - I was very tired last night when I made my way through Wicked. Knew I should've left it until today! ;P Anyways, I've now rectified the above (changed my result for Wicked 11 to 6 of each and saved that Fencer in Wicked 17!), replays updated.

Working through Havoc but need to go to sleep now. Here are my results/replays for the first 5 levels:

Havoc 1 - 4 of each (used cloners to good effect here as inspired by your Wild 13 solution, but couldn't find a way to improve the score).
Havoc 2 - 25 of each (whew...!!! that was EFFORT!)
Havoc 3 - 4 of each
Havoc 4 - 10 of each
Havoc 5 - Improved to 3 of each

I'll look forward to doing the rest of these tomorrow :)

Offline Crane

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #70 on: November 23, 2019, 05:16:03 AM »
This might have already been done, but here is a solution to Tricky 1 that uses only 1 of everything with no losses.

Offline Crane

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #71 on: November 23, 2019, 05:31:22 AM »
So I've managed to beat Fun 21 / Mayhem 26 with 3 skills, 0 losses, but there's a catch... it only works on the DOS version that doesn't have water at the edges of the level.  As a result it probably doesn't count, but here's the replay and the modified level.

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #72 on: November 23, 2019, 07:19:53 AM »
So I've managed to beat Fun 21 / Mayhem 26 with 3 skills, 0 losses, but there's a catch... it only works on the DOS version that doesn't have water at the edges of the level.  As a result it probably doesn't count, but here's the replay and the modified level.

I'm glad you're thinking about the DOS version but for the purpose of this challenge nope. Sorry. Object modifications are not allowed. Still, great job with that replay though, particularly on the second tunnel. Cloning a lemming before tunnelling and letting the cloner build to keep the tunnel going is inspired. I also like the fact you freed the lemmings with a cloner. I also like your Tricky 1 solution! :thumbsup: You really gave everything to keep those masses at bay within the limit.

So now, I'm sharing more of my Mayhem results here.
4: 4 of each, lost 1
Used the quickest solution. As soon as the last fencer cuts down on the terrain turn him back to a walker, and everyone will approach the exit rather than the drop.

6: 2 of each, lost 1
Same as Tricky 9

7: 6 of each, lost 0
Replay attached. Works for both this one and Fun 20.

9: 6 of each, lost 1
Replay attached. Works for both this one and Fun 29. Lots of tight spaces here.

10: 5 of each, lost 12
Found good use for the shimmiers, and was able to stretch across to the exit with 4 platformers. A messy solution however.

17: 4 of each, lost 2
Replay attached. Again used the shimmiers to full effect. This is close enough to a "symmetrical" solution.

19: 1 of each, lost 1
Same as Tricky 11

21: 2 of each, lost 1
Because it's 100%, I had to think of a quicker way to rescue the splat start. I ended up using 2 platformers.

22: 6 of each
Used more stackers where the fencer wasn't needed in WillLem's solution: One on the second candle of the second chandelier, and two on the first statue of the bridge.

25: 2 of each, lost 3 OR 3 of each, lost 0
Replays attached. Utilises the raised double platformer to full effect.

Finally, My comments to WillLem's Havoc results
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 02:02:12 PM by Minim »
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2019, 07:31:28 PM »
Finished Havoc! Results & replays above.

This has been an excellent challenge! It would be fun to do the same challenge with a mixture of new & old skills as well... I guess someone would have to take on the task of selecting which skills were available for each level.

Some comments on Minim's comments:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Great job getting Havoc 2 down to 13 -
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Speed fencing - is that the technique you used on Wild 13?

Glad you liked my Havoc 4 solution - I was just determined not to have to add more Fencers!

Best,

-WillLem 8-)

Check out my final results for this challenge.


Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix V12.7.1] Which levels can be beaten with the new skills?
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2019, 08:47:05 PM »
Well done on finishing off Havoc (And thus, the entire OhNo collection). 8-) I even decided to have a go at the rest myself. I'll have a look at your replays soon and we'll compare.

I'm glad you've enjoyed the challenge. However, mixing up new and old skills would make things too complicated. Would you (or anyone else for that matter) like me to upload Holiday Lemmings, Covox, Prima?

Speed fencing - is that the technique you used on Wild 13?

Yes indeed. ;)

EDIT: OK, I just saw your Havoc replays. So, only one improvement I've already made out of the eight remaining levels. You've certainly proved to be a better player after learning all these tricks. Here are my responses:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 10:09:51 PM by Minim »
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3