Author Topic: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]  (Read 3300 times)

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Offline David

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Hello everybody,

I'm new in this awesome forum that brings the game back to life from my childhood, and I want to share with you my The Lemmings Have Grown Pack, comprising 156 levels and using the latest version of NeoLemmix (V12.10.0).

Unfortunately, I am not a computer expert, I am not very good at English (the level titles are in French :P ) and I am not familiar with your codes and habits. So, this pack does not use the original "styles" and "sounds" folders ; in fact, I added a lot of little things to the existing tilesets (the lastest updates), which is why the downloadable file contains my level pack and my styles and sound folders. :D

My pack includes 6 ranks, with increasing difficulty levels :

1) Morning walk
2) Fast walk
3) Running
4) 100 metres
5) 400 metres
6) Marathon

(sorry, I don't know how to import images ???:-[)

My pack : The Lemmings Have Grown (updated !)

Updated styles (December 02, 2020) : davidz_styles

At last, I would like to warmly thank all of the creators/designers who are involved in improving this game ! It’s awesome ! :thumbsup:

David
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 01:31:25 PM by David »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 05:59:59 PM »
Welcome to the forums! :thumbsup:

The pack sounds gread and I will definitly take a look at it soon. :)

There is one thing though:

Quote
So, this pack does not use the original "styles" and "sounds" folders ; in fact, I added a lot of little things to the existing tilesets (the lastest updates), which is why the downloadable file contains my level pack and my styles and sound folders.

What styles did you add/change? If I would be overwriting my existent styles folder it will lead to problems in the future and I won't create an extra NL installation for 1 pack.

Instead, could you please create a new "david_special" style and put all your new tiles/objects etc into it? ???

Link to the reasons why: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4192.0

Sorry to overwhelm you with this right at the beginning, but changing existing styles already lead to huge messes in the past. :(

And with a "david_special" style you got all your current and future extra stuff together under your control without any compability issues for users. ;)


Quote
(sorry, I don't know how to import images ???:-[)

I, for example, upload my pictures to imgur and get share links for forums from there. :)

I wish you have a great time here. :thumbsup:

Online namida

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 06:16:22 PM »
To add to this: You do not need to go through and change everything manually. Chances are most of this can be automated - as this is an understandable mistake for a new user to make, I'm happy to help sort this out, I'll take a look at it later today.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2020, 06:28:03 PM »
Thank you for this warm welcome Ichotolot and namida ! ;)

In fact, I have two installations of NL on my computer: one with my styles, the other with the standard styles. :P

In fact, I created a few styles a while back (under the name davidz), which I updated today :

davidz_addamscrypt
davidz_addamsgallery
davidz_autumn
davidz_gold
davidz_marble_blue
davidz_marble_red
davidz_psychedelic_forest
davidz_raymancandy
davidz_special


Then I made some additions to the following styles (some tiles, sound...) :

arty_silhouette
flopsy_scrapbrain
gigalem_fortune
gigalem_ghz
gigalem_relic
gronkling_beast
gronkling_menace
l2_egyptian
l2_medieval
l2_space
namida_sky
namida_space
ohno_brick
ohno_rock
ohno_snow
orig_crystal
orig_dirt
orig_marble
orig_pillar
proxima_persia
zanzindorf_agony


Finally, in the following styles, I just added a sound (unlocked button and/or locked door):

default
dex_davinci
gigalem_lagoon
gigalem_purplemd
l3_shadow
namida_horror
orig_sega
plom_bastemp


And for the pictures, thank you, I understood ! :thumbsup:

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2020, 06:51:10 PM »
Here are the pictures of the first levels of each rank :thumbsup: :

1) Morning walk


2) Fast walk


3) Running


4) 100 metres


5) 400 metres


6) Marathon

Offline Proxima

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 07:31:04 PM »
Welcome, David :thumbsup:

Great to have you join us, and you clearly have a lot of artistic talent. I've only had a quick look so far, but some of your pieces are great additions to the style library. The only thing is, as Icho and namida have pointed out, it's really important that you either keep pieces in your own styles, or else cooperate with the style author in adding to their style, to avoid the situation where another designer uses some of your pieces thinking they are official, distributes a level, and then someone else can't play the level because they don't have the pieces (as well as other considerations namida went through in the post Icho linked to above).

In that spirit, I'm looking through the additions to proxima_persia. As far as I can see, these are all the new pieces:

Objects:

Button: Great idea to use the door-opening switch from Prince of Persia as a button. I haven't made a button object before so I need to double-check that everything is done in the way I would prefer, but this can definitely be added to the style officially.

Entrance 2 / Exit 2: These are much better than the lazy single-frame rips! They should just replace the old entrance/exit rather than existing as separate objects.

Spikes 3 / Spikes 4: I'm wary of these because they are invisible until activated, and general NL convention is not to do that (all traps should have secondary animations). Also, if they are to exist, then authors using the tileset would have to agree that the floor holes would only be used with the trap object -- unless the holes could become part of the object somehow? I need to think about this one.

Terrain:

Spikes: These should definitely not exist as terrain, because they already exist as a fire object (and a trap, though the trap version is distinct because the spikes start out retracted). Having some spikes be terrain (or in general, having terrain that looks like an object in the same style) is confusing to the player. I won't allow this to be part of my tileset, and I would strongly urge that you don't use this tile at all, though I can't enforce that.

Steel 2-6: You've replaced the pieces with identically named but distinct pieces that represent different stages of the gate opening or closing. I don't mind these pieces existing, but they need distinct names so they won't overwrite the old pieces.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 07:41:00 PM by Proxima »

Online namida

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 07:42:39 PM »
Okay, I'm working

Any new pieces you've added will be moved to a style under your name with an "ex" suffix. For example, your additions to orig_dirt will go in to "davidz_dirt_ex".

Note that a few of your changes were outright changing an object's type, or moving its trigger area / point. This is an especially big no-no - one of NeoLemmix's core principles is that levels should not deceive the player. If the player is familiar with a style and knows an object to be a certain type, they should not suddenly find that it's a different type in your pack. Most of these cases were just changing "BACKGROUND" to "NO_EFFECT" (which doesn't actually affect the player directly, though there is also no reason to do this), but I noticed that in gronkling_cyber you changed a fire object to water, and in one of zanzindorf's styles you changed the trigger point of an entrance. For this reason, these changes will be REVERTED, not copied to custom styles. Do not manually work around this - use or create a different object that is more suitable instead.

I further note you've added an "updraft_invisible" object to L2_space. For much the same reason as above, invisible objects are a HUGE "do not do this" in NeoLemmix. There can be some very specific exceptions; these would generally only be done by an experienced designer who knows what they're doing and has specifically taken steps to keep it fair. (One example is "Luck Of The Draw" from Lemmings Plus IV, which is a special graphics level where a representation of the objects makes up part of the terrain.) I don't know whether this is the case in your pack or not as I haven't looked at the levels where this is used, but if it's an outright "There's an invisible updraft and you have to guess where it is" or "Some levels are entirely covered by an invisible updraft", this is bad design. On the other hand, if it's more similar to the Luck Of The Draw example, it might be more justifiable. As I have not looked into what the situation is here, I will leave this as-is - but I urge you to get rid of it and replace it with a visible updraft unless there is very good reason for using it, and simply "I think this is cool" does not qualify.

As some historical context - at one point, NeoLemmix was far less consistent about this kind of thing, and one of the frequent complaints was that the rules would be different for every pack a player played - which got confusing quickly. Thus, it is now a big deal that it should remain consistent, and fair.

Please don't take this too harshly. I'm aware that many fan-content communities, including other Lemmings communities (in particular the Lemmini community) are not so strict around this, and that the NeoLemmix community's stance here can be a bit unusual at first. This is not us saying we don't want your content here - we absolutely do, we just want to make sure you do it the proper way, and we're happy to help you achieve that (as you'll realise from the effort I'm putting in to fixing up your pack / styles here).

EDIT: And one other change - it's customary for piece names to only contain lowercase letters, numbers or underscores; so I'll also adjust all your piece names to fit this.

I'll post again when I've got an update for this.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 07:53:59 PM by namida »

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2020, 07:53:35 PM »
Thank you very much Proxima and namida for all these details. I understand and I totally agree with you ! :thumbsup: In fact, I didn't know the usage conventions when I created these levels (and "augmented" the existing styles). I just wanted to have fun ! :P

Because of these multiple additions, I hesitated to propose the levels on this forum, because I knew that it was not good! :-[  But ... if necessary, I am ready to "readjust" my levels... Thanks a lot for your help !

However, I think the "updraft_invisible" is justified in the level where I use it (Seul sur la Lune, which means Alone on the Moon !) :laugh:

Offline mantha16

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 07:58:30 PM »
It's great to have new content creators so welcome I look forward to playing your pack . I might wait though till you've made some of the amendments that have been recommended

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2020, 08:23:29 PM »
Hello mantha16 ! Thank you very much ! The welcome is very warm on this forum !!! I'm glad I signed up ! :thumbsup:
Now, we have to wait for the updates of the great namida... !!! ;P

Online ericderkovits

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2020, 08:50:45 PM »
Welcome to the Forums David. It's always nice to have more new members join. Also great to have more packs availiable. So once Namida and you fix the style issues, it will be interesting to see these levels. Maybe now that 12.10 is released,  more packs will be released, as it seems we need more, especially easier ones.

Anyways,  once again Welcome to the forums.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2020, 08:57:49 PM »
Thank you very much ericderkovits for your welcome on this site ! ;) It's a real pleasure for me to be part of this small community and to share with you, with everyone !!!



One last thing namida ! You say :

Quote
Most of these cases were just changing "BACKGROUND" to "NO_EFFECT" (which doesn't actually affect the player directly, though there is also no reason to do this)

But there is a reason : "NO_EFFECT" images may be in the foreground or background while "BACKGROUND" images are always in the background (sometimes, I like to quibble ! :evil: ;P)

Online kaywhyn

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2020, 09:07:29 PM »
Welcome to the forums, David! :) This looks like a pack I would like to play, which I definitely will check out once the styles have been tidied up. I might even LP your pack, after I've done a few that I have planned. Love the Tinker Bell level in the image you posted (I'm a huge Disney fan), so I'm looking forward to trying out that level, but especially playing the entire pack once it's stable and ready. It's very awesome whenever I see more packs being released, as I just love playing packs/content.

Anyway, enjoy your time here. You've definitely seen how very friendly this community is and are willing to extend some assistance if you need or request it. Out of curiosity, what is your experience in regards to playing the official Lemmings games/Lemmings custom packs? It sounds like you definitely have played the original Lemmings. Perhaps you've tried ONML too? How about Lemmings 2: The Tribes? What port(s) did you play the official games in growing up?

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2020, 09:42:28 PM »
Thank you kaywhyn for this very friendly welcome ! :thumbsup: I also like Disney a lot, I'm not really a fan, but I have always liked the fairytale universe a lot (well... I also love thrillers and horror films, but that's not the subject :evil: ;P!)

Lemmings Original is, along with Rayman and Adibou, THE GAME of my childhood. I played it exclusively on a computer (under Dos, at the time : 1990s). So I played all the originals (including Oh no! And xmas) but I played very little Lemmings 2 (I really didn't like it !). I also tested, with wonder, some namida packs and some packs from other creators. 8-)

As I said before, I'm not a geek (far from it), but when I discovered Lemmix, then NeoLemmix, I wanted to create my own levels myself when I had free time ! It took me a long time to figure out how this "new-old" game works.

Uh, what does "LP my pack" mean ? :lem-shocked: :lem-mindblown: ???

Online kaywhyn

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2020, 09:52:09 PM »
Lemmings Original is, along with Rayman and Adibou, THE GAME of my childhood. I played it exclusively on a computer (under Dos, at the time : 1990s). So I played all the originals (including Oh no! And xmas) but I played very little Lemmings 2 (I really didn't like it !). I also tested, with wonder, some namida packs and some packs from other creators. 8-)

I don't blame you regarding Lemmings 2. I didn't like it too much either, but at the same time it was an ok game. I still enjoyed it, though.

Quote
Uh, what does "LP my pack" mean ? :lem-shocked: :lem-mindblown: ???

LP stands for "let's play." Basically, I record myself playing and solving the pack. I enjoy these videos when others do it, because you get to see how someone solves your levels on camera in real time, as well as hear his or her thoughts aloud (what was liked/disliked about the level, was it a good/not so good level, etc). Not to mention it's always fun to compare solutions to that of other players on some of the levels. I recently started LPing level packs, and I got to say I am absolutely enjoying my LP experience thus far, so I decided that I'll be doing many more in the future. Both of my LPs seem to be getting quite a positive reception. Be on the lookout for them! I'll be starting another one soon. Not your pack right away, but a couple of smaller packs in the meantime just to ease myself into LPing much bigger packs.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2020, 10:06:45 PM »
"Let's play", of course ! I've seen videos like this on Youtube before, but I'm not familiar with this stuff ! It's a geek thing ! ;P But it is a very interesting practice, as much for the one who makes it as for the one who created the levels ! I am curious... ;)

In fact, I'm a fan of the first lemmings. It's like my first love ;P ! Lemmings 2 is still a very cool game, but, in my opinion, there were too many skills ! Too complicated ! :forehead:

Online namida

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2020, 11:01:27 PM »
You might need to do some manual work on these levels:

"Tapis roulant" in the "100 metres" rank. If the change of the fire object to a water object was to allow use of a Swimmer, you'll need to replace it with an actual water object. (If it was purely cosmetic, this level will be fine.)
"Le phare" in the "400 metres" rank. This one used the entrance you moved the trigger point of; you will need to either redo your replay (if suitable) or move / replace the entrance.

All other levels should be fine using the attached version of the pack + styles. Please don't rely on this post as the final copy - download them, look over them yourself, make sure everything really is working as expected (at the minimum run a mass replay check to confirm all levels remain solvable), then release it.

Your styles, including updates to your existing ones, have been added to the NeoLemmix styles collection (in this corrected form), so you only need to ship the levels, not the styles/sounds, in the future. I have included a zip of all your styles (including the new ones that I have moved your additions to other styles into) here, for your own use or for anyone who wants to quickly download all of them at once.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2020, 11:37:59 PM »
Thank you very much namida for this great job !!!! :thumbsup: I will solve the few problems that I notice ! ;)
However, I can't open some levels ("Bonds et rebonds", "La peste verte" etc.) with NeoLemmix Editor :

Error while loading the level. Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

Do I have to recreate the failed levels or can you do it yourself ? :cute: ???

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2020, 12:08:21 AM »
Here ! I made a few small fixes and everything seems to be working fine :
The Lemmings Have Grown (pack)

However, I am unable to open the following levels with NLEditor while they open correctly with NeoLemmix (I don't know why :lem-mindblown::lem-shocked::lem-mindblown::lem-shocked::lem-mindblown:):

Bonds et rebonds
La peste verte
Espace en distorsion
L'Académie des 9
Le lac
Les marches de l'invisible
L'île au trésor
Blue Lagoon
Renaissance
Stalactites
Amor
E-toiles
Le prisonnier d'Alcatraz
Cyber-machin-truc
Jeu de piste morbide
Retour au XVe siecle
Scenario de film d'horreur
Soucoupes violentes

Offline Proxima

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2020, 12:20:56 AM »
I'm working on integrating the new additions into the proxima_persia style, after which davidz_persia shouldn't need to exist separately.

* Entrance and exit have no problems.

* Button and locked exit are okay for now, but the locked exit needs to open to reveal stairs rather than the plain teal rectangle. I can do this, but I won't get to it tonight.

* I like your idea of the floor spike holes being a trap (while the "out" spikes will still be a fire object), but if we're going to make that change, the holes have to become part of the trap graphic; I'm not happy about the idea of just trusting that designers will use the trap together with the terrain holes. Again, I can do this myself but I don't know when I will have time.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2020, 12:48:18 AM »
Hey David, It would be nice to have custom music for this pack as it would make the pack that much more enjoyable instead of just the default Amiga tunes.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2020, 01:42:47 AM »
In fact, the levels that I can't open on NLEditor are the levels where I have grouped parts together (using the Group button). Apparently, NLEditor does not recognize these kinds of objects. Is there a solution to fix this problem ? ??? :lem-shocked:

Proxima : Thank you for these explanations ! I totally agree with you. Regarding the traps, indeed, the holes should be part of the trap's graphics. I'm sure you can do something awesome ! ;P :thumbsup: (since I love astronomy, I like your nickname very much... and your profile picture !)

Ericderkivots : Yeah, I've thought about it too, but, I admit, I don't know what music to use ! If you have ideas for me, I am (very) interested ... ;)

Online namida

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2020, 02:08:07 AM »
Quote
In fact, the levels that I can't open on NLEditor are the levels where I have grouped parts together (using the Group button). Apparently, NLEditor does not recognize these kinds of objects. Is there a solution to fix this problem ? ???

This is a bug in the editor. I've figured out how to fix it and will upload an update shortly. EDIT: Done, here's the link: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?id=468
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 02:13:22 AM by namida »

Online ericderkovits

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2020, 02:42:59 AM »
RE: David
 There are alot of packs that have nice custom music. Probably the packs that seems to have good custom music are and I would perhaps look at first and download from are:

1) assorted Gubbins
2) clammings
3) Seblems
4) Sublems
5) Reunion
6) United
7) Pimolems

And if there any levels you think may be nice with classical music you can download the music from

1) Renaissance Lemmings
2) Classical Lemmings
3) And Arty's Artlems

Of course there are other packs too so just look around in the neolemmix levels board and download some of the above packs music or any other packs.

Of course these are all new format packs so it's easy to put your choices into your new formats music folder. Maybe make a subfolder in the music folder and store them in the subfolder. Then use the editor to put your tune choice for each level in the music window of the editor using the subfolder.

Of course these packs are just my first choices to look at. I'm sure other people will have packs maybe to pick from.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2020, 02:29:58 PM »
Thank you very much namida, you're doing a wonderful job ! Everything is working fine now !!! ;) :thumbsup:

Ericderkovits, thank you for all these suggestions, but ... I don't know where to find all this music (on the forum or elsewhere ?). I already have the music from the namida packs and the renaissance pack. But I get lost in the meanders of the site... :laugh:

Otherwise, I have finished correcting a few small problems (on the levels !) but which are without consequence on the game ! :) I will soon re-propose a download of the complete pack with the musics. But... later ! :crylaugh:

EDIT : It's ok, I found all the music. Thanks ! (you have to tell me "everything" (all the explanations, all links...) so that I don't get lost :XD:)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 02:46:59 PM by David »

Online kaywhyn

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2020, 03:04:45 PM »
"Let's play", of course ! I've seen videos like this on Youtube before, but I'm not familiar with this stuff ! It's a geek thing ! ;P But it is a very interesting practice, as much for the one who makes it as for the one who created the levels ! I am curious... ;)

At least for me, LPing is a lot of fun. I'm glad that I recently got into doing them ;) I will most certainly let you know when I have started playing this pack when I have started the LP and provide you a link, especially since you're the pack author. Anyone is still welcome to watch them :P

Quote
In fact, I'm a fan of the first lemmings. It's like my first love ;P ! Lemmings 2 is still a very cool game, but, in my opinion, there were too many skills ! Too complicated ! :forehead:

Same! For Lemmings 2, agree completely. Not only that, a lot of the skills were extremely redundant, since some did the same thing, just had some variation in the effect, like club basher (removes a much larger amount of terrain per stroke) vs the regular basher, or stomper (basically a much faster version of the digger since it removes slightly more terrain per jump) vs digger.

Hey David, It would be nice to have custom music for this pack as it would make the pack that much more enjoyable instead of just the default Amiga tunes.
Thank you very much namida, you're doing a wonderful job ! Everything is working fine now !!! ;) :thumbsup:

Ericderkovits, thank you for all these suggestions, but ... I don't know where to find all this music (on the forum or elsewhere ?). I already have the music from the namida packs and the renaissance pack. But I get lost in the meanders of the site... :laugh:

Otherwise, I have finished correcting a few small problems (on the levels !) but which are without consequence on the game ! :) I will soon re-propose a download of the complete pack with the musics. But... later ! :crylaugh:

EDIT : It's ok, I found all the music. Thanks ! (you have to tell me "everything" (all the explanations, all links...) so that I don't get lost :XD:)

There's absolutely no requirement that a level pack needs to have custom music. Just like David said, there's far more important issues to take care of, namely, fixing levels to make sure they're working as intended in the styles after the tidying up of the styles. Music, and by extension custom music, can always come at a later time. It may affect one's playing experience, but it most certainly won't affect play-ability of the levels/pack, which is much more important in ensuring anyway.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2020, 04:10:41 PM »
Quote
I will most certainly let you know when I have started playing this pack when I have started the LP and provide you a link

Thanks kaywhyn, that's great ! I will be very happy ! ;P :thumbsup:

So, I fixed two/three levels that had some issues : they were too hard to solve because tiles or objects were not in the right place ! :forehead:

For the music, you're right, I'll see later... It isn't the most important for the moment ;)

Here, the download link for my updated pack : The Lemmings have grown :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2020, 07:03:51 PM »
On the forum, I saw the word "backroute" several times. What does that mean, exactly ?
????????????

Online namida

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2020, 07:44:03 PM »
If you haven't already, I suggest editing the first post of the topic to put the new link (instead of the old one), if applicable.

On the forum, I saw the word "backroute" several times. What does that mean, exactly ?
????????????

At the most simple, a "backroute" is a solution to a level, that wasn't intended by the author. Some authors (myself included) will further only consider a solution a backroute, if the solution is much easier and/or avoids certain specific parts of the intended solution (for example, I generally won't consider a solution a backroute if the player has swapped a Builder and a Platformer around but otherwise found the intended solution).

It's really somewhat subjective, and up to level authors to decide but ultimately - if you see someone's solution to your level and think, "they shouldn't be able to do it that way!", it's a "backroute".

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2020, 08:04:55 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion ! That's it : I updated the link on the first post ! :P

"Backroute" is a funny neologism ! I understand the meaning of this word very well, and I find it very useful when playing NeoLemmix. I have often found solutions (much) easier than those I had initially imagined when playing my own levels... or sometimes in Lemmings Original ! ;)

Thank you, namida, for this very clear explanation ! :thumbsup:

Offline mantha16

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2020, 12:24:52 AM »
theres no styles in the download so I cant play can you please add your custom styles folder please

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2020, 01:12:08 AM »
Hello mantha16,

You need to download styles updates here (namida added my styles and my extensions a few days ago) : NeoLemmix Engine

;P :thumbsup:

Offline mantha16

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2020, 02:48:02 AM »
if theyve been added I dont need to download it again I just use the update manager in the player thanks

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2020, 03:16:11 AM »
Quote
if theyve been added I dont need to download it again I just use the update manager in the player thanks

Okay ! I didn't know this feature ! ??? ;P

For information, due to a small error in level 11 of the Fast walk rank, Une partie de morpion (too many lemmings !), I just updated the level pack (in the first post) : Back to the first post.
:thumbsup:

Offline Gronkling

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2020, 06:52:14 PM »
I just finished your level pack. There's some nice levels in there, Marathon 10 particularly stood out to me as a genuinely great level :thumbsup:. I did find however there were a lot of levels that were mostly just A LOT of building with not much else, which I didn't find very fun. The decoration was often really nice though! I'd say the difficulty of this pack is "Intermediate", I think someone who enjoyed the original lemmings style of level design might like it.


Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2020, 09:33:03 PM »
Thank you very much Gronkling ! Your feedbacks are precious to me !
:thumbsup:

I just watched your replays (half of it !), and I noticed a lot of backroutes (over 20). In fact, as I am not a professional, there are a lot of tricks that I didn't know and that I discovered since my registration on the forum (and with PimoLems pack, which I am playing).

I'll correct all of these mistakes, give you a detailed feedback, and update my level pack soon !
:thumbsup: ;P

Offline mantha16

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2020, 09:40:36 PM »
I dont know if you have already tried it David but IchoTolots introduction pack is really good for learning new tricks

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2020, 10:19:21 PM »
I just watched your replays (half of it !), and I noticed a lot of backroutes (over 20). In fact, as I am not a professional, there are a lot of tricks that I didn't know and that I discovered since my registration on the forum (and with PimoLems pack, which I am playing).

I'll correct all of these mistakes, give you a detailed feedback, and update my level pack soon !
:thumbsup: ;P

I was planning on playing the pack this weekend, but I think it would be better to wait for your patch as then you can see if your fixes had the intended effect. :)

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2020, 11:14:57 PM »
Quote
I dont know if you have already tried it David but IchoTolots introduction pack is really good for learning new tricks

Thanks for the information ! I'll go take a look ! :P

Quote
I was planning on playing the pack this weekend, but I think it would be better to wait for your patch as then you can see if your fixes had the intended effect. :)

As I have some free time, I will be doing all the updates before this weekend. I'm almost done ! :thumbsup:

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2020, 01:11:55 AM »
It's done: the pack has just been updated : First post
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thank you very much Gronkling.
:thumbsup:;P

:lemming:Morning Walk :
Level 3 : there is a much easier way with less skills !
Level 6 : there is a easier solution ; and you failed to get the talisman !
Level 7 : fixed backroute : I removed the stopper skill !
Level 19: I never would have thought of doing it like this : there were easier solutions.
Level 20 : you can do the level more simply, without disarmer or floater.

:lemming::lemming:Fast walk :
Level 1 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 3 : fixed backroute : second trap added.
Level 5 : fixed backroute : spawn rate at 65 (instead of 40).
Level 7 : fixed backroute : basher removed.
Level 11 : the level is quite possible !!!
Level 12 : I like your solution, but it was much easier (with 5 builders, as well).
Level 14 : fixed backroute : shimmier removed !
Level 16 : fixed backroutes : neutral lemmings added.
Level 17 : it could be easier !
Level 18 : ok, it works, but we can do it with less skills (climber removed).
Level 20 : fixed backroute : a tile removed.
Level 21 : perfect ! I removed 2 extra builders !
Level 24 : ok, but no talisman !
Level 25 : exactly as I had imagined, but no talisman !

:lemming::lemming::lemming:Running :
Level 2 : fixed backroute : a builder removed.
Level 3 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 4 : no replay ?? I remove the talisman.
Level 6 : fixed backroute : two pickup skills added.
Level 10 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 12 : well done !
Level 14 : fixed backroute : owa right added.
Level 15 : well done, but you did not earn the talisman !
Level 17 : fixed backroute : owa right added.
Level 18 : fixed backroute.
Level 19 : fixed backroute : glider removed.
Level 21 : fixed backroute.
Level 23 : fixed backroute
Level 25 : fixed backroute : 51 lemmings must be saved (not 50).
Level 26 : fixed backroute : a pickup skill added.

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:100 metres :
Level 6 : fixed backroute : trap added.
Level 11 : and the talisman ?
Level 15 : fixed backroute : 1 min 30 (instead of  2 min).
Level 20 : fixed backroutes : one basher removed and one digger added.
Level 21 : fixed backroutes : tiles added, bombers removed.
Level 22 : fixed backroutes : tiles added, a walker removed.
Level 25 : fixed backroute : too simple without the talisman (this level must now be completed in 1 min) !
Level 26 : fixed backroute : arrows were in the wrong direction !!!

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:400 metres :
Level 2 : exactly as I had imagined. But from now on, all the lemmings will have to be saved (talisman removed).
Level 3 : without using the climber, well done. But I will also remove the talisman : 5 minutes maximum.
Level 5 : good, but we can do it using 13 builders, maybe less : I'm going to reduce the number of builders.
Level 8 : fixed backroute.
Level 10 : fixed backroute : a glider removed.
Level 11 : nice solution. I'll take a walker off.
Level 12 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 17 : fixed backroute : one fencer removed, one basher added.
Level 19 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 20 and 25 : no replay ??? Levels are possible !
Level 26 : fixed backroute !

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:Marathon :
Level 2 : fixed backroute !
Level 3 : well done ! Talisman removed.
Level 5, 6, 14 and 16 : no replay ??? Don't you like zombies ?
Level 11 : fixed backroutes : 3 bashers only.
Level 12 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 15 : fixed backroute.
Level 18 : fixed backroute.
Level 20 : fixed backroute : fewer builders and fewer bashers.
Level 22 : fixed backroutes : talisman removed and pickup skill added.
Level 23 : well done ! But the talisman ?
Level 25 : well done ! But your solution is very complicated !

As for the other levels, you took the paths I had imagined.
Thanks again ! Bye !
:thumbsup:

Offline Gronkling

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2020, 01:55:05 AM »
Some of the replays didnt get saved because I manually save replays and forgot to do it a few times. I don't really tend to pay attention to talismans much so I think I missed a few. Also on a few levels I did a complicated solution for fun.
...I did skip a couple of the zombie levels because I find them really annoying personally, thats just my opinion though. :P

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2020, 03:40:53 AM »
Gronkling : ok, no problem ! :P
For the levels with zombies, I understand your opinion ! I feel the same ! ;P

I just did a last update (see first post) in which I deleted most of the talismans ! :thumbsup:

Offline Pieuw

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2020, 05:13:09 PM »
I gave it a try but I quickly gave up because of the tribes skills and the zombies. What can I say, I'm a boring classic guy and I like my Lemmings the classic way. :crylaugh:

The few levels I played were neatly made and looked great though! It's great that new people keep creating level packs :thumbsup:

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2020, 05:56:15 PM »
Thanks Pieuw ! ;) When you say "tribes skills", do you mean "new skills" ?
You are old fashioned, it's a shame ! :D

Then, I counted, only 12 levels are with one (or more) zombies. It's not a lot ! :eyeroll:

Otherwise, I admire your work in PimoLems, you are very talented : levels are very well arranged, very well thought out. I just finished Stormy rank, having passed all levels ! Some of the Stormy rank gave me a hard time, in particular Stormy 4 (Rule of Three), Stormy 10 (Erbalunga), Stormy 12 (High Jump) and Stormy 20 (Let Them Eat Cake). On the other hand, I found Stormy 9 (A Matter of Pragmatism) particularly easy (I succeeded on the first try !), and Stormy 14 (Lemesis), Stormy 17 (Leavin 'on the Edge) and Stormy 19 (Tree-Athlon) levels seemed pretty easy to me. :P

In Windy rank, only Windy 11 (From Pillar to Post) seemed really difficult to me too : it took me a long time to find the solution ! :o

Loved most of the levels, it takes a lot of pragmatism to solve them : Windy 19 (Mizmaze) and Stormy 20 (Let Them Eat Cake) are my favorite. :thumbsup:

I also started, in parallel, Pickaxe and One ranks, very nice, but Temple Ruins (One 5) seemed to me disconcertingly easy !! ???

For now, I am stuck on the first level of Hurricane, very difficult ! :lem-mindblown: ???

Offline Swerdis

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2020, 06:08:53 PM »
You probably found the same backroute like I did in "Temple Ruins"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4z73pNL_QA

I'm very sure, Icho will fix this and the many other backroutes :-)


Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2020, 06:24:52 PM »
Hello Swerdis : that's right ! I thought all the backroutes had been fixed ! :lem-shocked:
:thumbsup:

Offline Swerdis

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2020, 06:28:10 PM »
No. Those I discovered have not been fixed so far - Icho wants to do this when I completed the pack ;)

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2020, 06:45:47 PM »
Okay ! Besides, I also found a very easy path in Stormy 8 (Broad Pit), using only two builders. I think it's a backroute ! :lem-shocked:

Offline Swerdis

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2020, 06:57:38 PM »
When you have remaining skills in the end then it's actually always a backroute. Most level-creators don't provide red-herring-skills - since they often open backroutes. I backrouted this level (Broad Pit) too  - but I had only a basher and a floater left. Icho has youtube-videos of every level with the intended solution - so you can compare.

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2020, 07:04:14 PM »
also Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.


NOTE: Though we should post anything for Pimolems in the Pimolems topic, since this is for David's new pack.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 07:10:24 PM by ericderkovits »

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2020, 07:07:57 PM »
Swerdis : Alright, I understand ! So, I found a lot of backroutes ! :P

Here, my solution of Stormy 8 (Broad Pit)
:P

By the way, how do you attach a file ? ????????????

Quote
also Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.

Great ! I didn't know ! Thank you !! :thumbsup:

Quote
NOTE: Though we should post anything for Pimolems in the Pimolems topic, since this is for David's new pack.

It's true, sorry ! It's my fault ! :-[

Offline Swerdis

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2020, 07:15:54 PM »
But sometimes these solutions don't work anymore because you (and I) played an already patched version. A good example ist Hurricane 19 which originally was created with 3 miners. But you will have to solve it with only 2.

Yeah, we should! My fault, too :-(

Online ericderkovits

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2020, 07:19:13 PM »
RE: David

To attach something just use the attachments below the post and where it says choose file, just open your file. You can have up to 6 files(max 32.7MB). If there are more than 6 files(ie replays)
just use a compression method like winzip or winrar(this way you can have more than 6). Still must be less than the 32.7MB. Many times people use Dropbox or other programs for people to use
when this goes over. Especially for music files since they tend to use up a lot of space.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2020, 07:21:34 PM »
As I understand it, only a few levels have been updated ! I see it's important for multiple players to play a level pack to spot and fix all the backroutes. It's very interesting ! ;)

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2020, 07:25:59 PM »
ericderkovits : I hadn't even paid attention : I must be blind !
:lem-mindblown: :D

Otherwise, I use MEGA (for packs, levels...) and Imgur (for pictures) !

Thank you very much !
:thumbsup:

Online kaywhyn

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2020, 07:32:34 PM »
When you have remaining skills in the end then it's actually always a backroute. Most level-creators don't provide red-herring-skills - since they often open backroutes. I backrouted this level (Broad Pit) too  - but I had only a basher and a floater left. Icho has youtube-videos of every level with the intended solution - so you can compare.

Not necessarily. You can have some skills leftover and while it might not be exactly intended, it'll still be deemed acceptable.

also Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.

Not really relevant, since a lot of the levels have been patched out and so many of Pieuw's original solutions don't hold up anymore. Especially since Lemmini is very different from NL and the NL version is a conversion where the original glitch levels don't work.

As for posting in the relevant topics, should sound familiar to you, since I told you the same thing when you first started out. Admins, feel free to move the relevant posts to the Pimolems topic.

Offline Pieuw

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2020, 08:03:37 PM »
Thanks Pieuw ! ;) When you say "tribes skills", do you mean "new skills" ?
You are old fashioned, it's a shame ! :D
Yes, I mean skills that were not in the original game. I don't really know why but I've never been interested in Lemmings 2 and its gameplay additions. :XD: I like Lemmings the way it is: simple, basic, yet infinite in its possibilities. :laugh:

About Pimolems, I'll answer in the relevant topic :)

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2020, 09:10:27 PM »
Quote
Yes, I mean skills that were not in the original game. I don't really know why but I've never been interested in Lemmings 2 and its gameplay additions. :XD: I like Lemmings the way it is: simple, basic, yet infinite in its possibilities. :laugh:

Okay ! I can understand ! Either way, you're very good at creating simple, basic levels ! Bravo ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2020, 07:51:04 PM »
I played the pack a bit today and here is some feedback. Warning I will focus on stuff that can be improved here as these were the things that interrupted my enjoyment of playing the pack ;):

- First of all: The levels look really nice! :thumbsup:

-  I solved the first rank and parts of the last rank (1-8 + the last 2 levels) to get a feeling how this pack is difficulty wise. I would rank it simply as "Medium".

- The biggest thing to improve the pack would be: Throw out the timers! Out of the levels I solved the only nessesary timer I have seem would be: 1 11. That's it.
  So many times I had to rewind to: A) Increase the RR earlier while changing nothing else. B) Slightly change some assignments to save a couple extra seconds while still execution the same solution again.
  This just makes the pack a lot more annoying. Throw them out, put away the nostalgia that every level needs a timer. 95% of them don't need it and they make a otherwise good level way worse. Prime example: 1 05 where i had to rewind multiple times to turn up the RR again after I needed to change some assignments. Otherwise it was a good level!:)

- Some of the objects/tiles are very misleading. As they could be your personal additions I include the cases here in my feedback. If they are not your additions think about maybe replacing them:
  A) In 1 14 is fish is solid terrain. In 1 18 the fish is now a background object or even a trap. If it's your addition: Choose 1 for it and make it consistent!
  B) 1 15 the giant invisible updraft. I know what you want to emulate but because of the updraft I can't seee the trap's or exit's trigger area resulting in more frustraition. Also in 1 23 we also have a space level, but this time no low gravity.
  C) The invisible exit in 1 08 and 1 18! An exit should be visible from the start! Please, choose a locked exit that is visible.
  D) No one can see if this is a splat pad or an anti-splat pad. Please use the standard red one for clarity purpose.
  E) 6 08 - let's say I needed a while figure out what is happening here and how those custom invisible updrafts work. Simply use and extend a standard one to cover the rooms as this is really confusing.
 
--> General rule for tileset additions: Clarity over style! Nothing should be invisible or misleading.

- 1 20: Hidden trap! :devil: Make it visible!

- The difficulty is a bit over the place. 1 01 - 1 06 is way harder than 1 14, 1 16, 1 22 for example. The last level 6 22 I would not consider more difficult than 1 18 as well.

- I noticed quite the inflation with builders later on. Try to turn down the builderfests a bit in the future. ;)

My favorites so far were: 1 05 (without the timer), 6 04 and 6 05 :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I attached my replays so far and will continue playing soon. :)

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2020, 10:33:13 PM »
Thank you very much IchoTolot for these comments and advices. I will soon be updating all my levels (without invisible traps, without time limits... and taking into account the adjustments you offer me) ! :thumbsup:

For level 1 05, time adds to the difficulty, I find. Otherwise, I just removed the time on most of my levels (no useful, that's true !), however, I left it on some of them. ;)

For the fish terrain, it only appear in this level. In all the others levels it is trap or decoration (fountain). But I just solved the problem ! Thank you !

I hadn't paid attention to the fact that the updraft masked the trigger zones ! But of course, I agree ! I just removed the giant invisible updraft and I replaced it with a updraft visible only on the areas necessary for the resolution of the level (same for Apesanteur level, in Marathon rank)

Invisible exits : I knew this would be a problem ! I will redo the animations so that only the outlines of the output are visible (I think), which will make it easy to locate them. :P

Concerning the builders, there are particular (fanciful) levels where they are essential, in particular in the rank 100 metres. It must be said that they were used a lot in Original Lemmings.

The progression in difficulty is quite random. In fact, there is little difference between the beginning (rank 1) and the end (rank 6). The difficulty evolves between medium - and medium + ;P, with occasional some rather very easy ! However, I am complicating the easy levels, so that the difficulty is medium everywhere (I prefer that way !).

Your replays : I don't have much to say, except thank you and bravo ! ;P

Morning walk :
Level 2 : nice, but we can do a lot easier !
Level 7 : well done : I hadn't thought of doing it like this.

Marathon :
Level 5: My solution is very different from yours, but yours might be a little more complicated, just a little ! ;) Good !

Bye !

Offline WillLem

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2020, 06:48:00 AM »
Had a quick glance at some of these levels and really like the designs! I've added this to my LP List :lemcat:

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2020, 12:47:20 PM »
Thank you WillLem, it's nice ! I have a fairly developed artistic sense, it's true ! ;P

Right now, I'm updating my levels on Gronkling's and IchoTolot's advices, and I'm making the levels "more complex", because some levels are too easy and don't require a lot of thought : I make them more "in the spirit of NeoLemmix."

I will update this pack shortly ! :thumbsup:

Offline WillLem

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2020, 09:38:07 PM »
I'm making the levels "more complex", because some levels are too easy and don't require a lot of thought

Don't make them too complex. The forums need more easy levels! ;P

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2020, 08:42:37 PM »
Quote
Don't make them too complex. The forums need more easy levels! ;P

Don't worry WillLem : it's just a little harder ! :P
Besides, is it true what you say ? There are few easy packs ? ???

I just updated my level pack following Gronkling and IchoTolot's advices (thank you ! ;)), including removing invisible locked exit, removing invisible updraft and removing timer (in 90% of levels). Finally, I made changes in a lot of levels to make them more engaging and more challenging. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Updated the following styles for download :

davidz_addamscrypt : invisible locked exit and teleporter-stopper/receiver-stopper removed.
davidz_gold : invisibile locked exit removed.
davidz_marble_ex : invisibile locked exit removed.
davidz_marble_blue : splat transformed into anti-splat (to avoid confusion !).
davidz_space_ex : updraft invisible removed.

Download updated styles and level pack in the First post ! :thumbsup:

Bye ! ;P

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2020, 09:41:35 PM »
There's just been a lot of hard content compared to easy stuff, especially in New Formats. Pretty good way to tell is you can look through the Neolemmix levels board and look at the packs that have a difficulty tag attached to them. You'll see there's little that are labeled easy/medium. Or, simply play through more packs. Generally, it's difficult for authors to judge the difficulty of their own packs, and this is where feedback on the levels for the author is helpful. Also, keep in mind the discussion that difficulty is subjective. What people found difficult might be easy for others or vice versa. Definitely the way to get better at level solving is to play more packs.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2020, 09:59:52 PM »
Thank you kaywhyn ! You are right ! ;)

There is more challenge in creating difficult levels. It's naturally more exciting, I think ! In fact, I imagine passionate gamers are talented, seasoned, and enjoy challenging (very) difficult levels !... :thumbsup:

However, easy levels are great for learning ! It's necessary for newcomers ;P But, are there many newcomers who don't know anything and want to "learn NeoLemmix" ? I don't know...

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2020, 10:09:32 PM »
Generally, almost everyone here has some experience with the official games, and it's usually recommended to play through them first before taking on custom level packs, since these tend to be far more difficult. There are some that have very little to none, but those are far and few in between. As for learning NL, there's always the NL manual and Icho's NL Tutorial Pack. Of course, it's not mandatory to play the official games first before playing custom packs. In the same way it's not necessary to play the NL Tutorial Pack before playing custom level packs for NL, but I still highly recommend that pack to anyone, whether a newcomer or expert. I'm a good example here, where upon switching to playing on NL last year I immediately took on the hardest pack there is in existence, United. I didn't familiarize myself with the controls by playing other packs on NL before this. Prior to playing United, I've been a heavy player on Lemmini/Superlemmini for 4-5 years, and I have played through Dovelems, Pimolems, Lemmings Reunion, and Sub Lems. Also, I'm a player who is willing to take on packs of any difficulty, so as you can see the extreme difficulty label of United didn't scare me from playing it. I seem to have a very high level of patience compared to most when it comes to playing/solving, as I'm willing to sit through levels and struggle with them until I get them solved on my own.

As I did mention before, this pack of yours is eventually on my to-play list. Just as soon as I get all of my planned LPs done :P

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2020, 10:23:51 PM »
Thank you for these explanations. For my part, I knew Lemmings Original and Christmas as a child, then I discovered Lemmix (many years after its release), NeoLemmix then. I had two problems : I did not know the existence of this forum and I had a busy life (so, little time to play). ;P

I told myself that by registering on this forum, I would learn a lot of things. And I confirm ! So, I've downloaded a lot of packs (the only ones I've played are namida's, but just a few, "sporadically"). I am currently with PimoLems, I advance at my own pace, and like you, I don't like giving up or looking at solutions. However... I'm not going to try Lemmings United yet. :thumbsup:

Besides, for updating styles : will namida take care of it ? ???

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2020, 12:34:40 AM »
Hey, I like the running rank names, that's actually quite cool. :thumbsup: I notice a lot of people are into their running this weather. I used to be actually quite good the running in the past but as of now not as good as I used to be. I was hoping to maybe do a half marathon in the future although that will be hard.

I think making levels difficult makes a challenge at least. I might maybe get round to playing your pack one time. Sorry I've not been playing packs lately. 

I'm sure your pack will be quite good. Getting into the level pack making is fun but sometimes can be tricky thinking of the ideas.

Good luck David :thumbsup:

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2020, 01:19:27 AM »
Hello grams88 ! Nice picture !!! I love Columbo, I watched all the episodes a few years ago ... :P

I suddenly feel... guilty ! :o

Thank you for your nice message ! There was a time when I really liked running (not running after time, nor after murderers, but running... with my legs ;P). So, the pack update has just been completed, and the difficulty of some levels has been increased. There are undoubtedly backroutes that I will have to correct. But I need more... testers.

I really like "creating" and I always have a lot of ideas, in a lot of sectors. However, creating level packs isn't easy and I will be very happy if you play this one !!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Bye !

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2020, 07:14:22 PM »
I have resolved the levels I've solved so far, but during a mass replay check I noticed that a few levels of the pack share the same level ID --> Replay gets matched to the wrong level.

So far these are the contenders for that:

Fast walk 11:  Marathon_03.nxrp   (5858 frames)
100 metres 8:  Marathon_06.nxrp   (11212 frames)
Morning walk 13:  Marathon_26.nxrp   (5563 frames)

So, for example, Fast walk 11 and  Marathon_03 have the same level ID and the checker tries to solve Fast walk 11 with my replay for Marathon_03.

You can simply change the ID of a level in the editor so that each ID is unique again. This way each replay can correctly be connected to its level. :)

I also attached my Mass Replay check. Will soon continue to play on. :)


Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2020, 09:39:47 PM »
IchoTolot, thanks for the replays !!! ;P You have successfully completed the levels as I originally planned. Well done ! A small clarification however, Morning walk 10 can be achieved with just 3 skills. ;)

Updates :

Similar levels (built with the same tiles) had, for the most part, the same ID. I fixed the problem. Thank you !

I also fixed small issues in a few overly easy levels (and added/removed awkward design elements) :

Morning 1 : Spawn rate increased.
Morning 12 : I recreate this level :laugh:
Morning 15 : Shifting of pickup skills.
Morning 20 : Background changed and disturbing design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).
Morning 24 : Some design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).

Fast walk 17 : Spawn rate increased and one skill changed.

Running 7 : Number of lemmings increased.
Running 11 : Some skills removed.
Running 18 : Backroute (steel added).

100 meters 1 : Some design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).

400 meters 8 : Backroute (steels added).

Bye ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2020, 06:38:56 PM »
More replays! ;)

I resolved morning walk and completed marathon. :)

What came to my eyes:

6 11: I really don't see the need for the timer here.
6 19: Why does it need to be ~20 builders to get up there ??? Most of the level is just building a giant bridge. You can cull most builders with some tweaks. It should need at most 5 builders to get up to the action.
6 20: Do not hide buttons, pick-up skills and traps behind terrain, period. :devil:


From the new levels my favorite was 6 10. :thumbsup:


Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #73 on: December 31, 2020, 09:47:24 AM »
Hi IchoTolot, thank you very much for this feedback !
:thumbsup:

Marathon 11 : Timer deleted ! You're right !
Marathon 12 : (backroute) I change a tile. More lemmings to save. Fewer platformers.
Marathon 18 : (little backroute) Steels added.
Marathon 19 : I understand but I like builders ! :P However, I added a second unlock button and some skills.
Marathon 20 : (little backroute) Steel added.
But... ;) I like the hidden traps since this level is a puzzle to solve. The symbols used in this strange level are Egyptian numbers, and only blocks with a symbol between 20 and 100 (as indicated by the reliquary) contain a key (unlock button) and the blocks on which are drawn the other symbols (animals and objects) must be destroyed in the order indicated by the animations (waves and beetle). The others contain traps… normal, because it’s the curse !!! :evil::devil::scared: I assure you, this is the only level of this kind in my pack ! :laugh:
Marathon 22 : (little backroute) On cloner deleted and two climbers added.

Bye !

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2021, 12:50:08 AM »
More replays. :)

Resolved rank 1+6 and solved rank 2

Comments

2 04: Another unnessesary timer.

2 20: I would make the gaps smaller so that the builder ammount can be brought down. As you might suspect, I am not the biggest fan of builderfests. ;)

My favorites were 2 14 and 2 21. :thumbsup:

6 20:
Nobody knows egyptian numbers and will look those up. You've got 2 most likely scenarios now when people come to this level:

- People will simply play the level in clear physics mode to see the button+trap trigger areas (as I did) and be annoyed with it and in this mode all your custom graphics aren't even shown. Your puzzle is therefore nullified and your custom graphics remain without an effect.
- People will simply skip it as they don't want to deal with hidden stuff.

I would still advice to make the buttons + pick-ups visible, keep the custom graphics around them so that they can still be seen and the level will still play out the same, just without hiding stuff away from the player to mess with them. ;)

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2021, 11:12:02 AM »
Thank you IchoTolot for this feedback ! :thumbsup:

2 02 : Slightly more complicated alternative solution.
2 04 : Well done ! This is one of the two solutions intended. I forgot to remove the timer. :D It's done. Thank you !
2 06 : Backroute : I hadn't thought of this funny solution ! Steels added (I have also added the same steels in the level 6 16).
2 07 : Well done ! But little backroute : this alternative solution is no longer valid : I removed the hill and two plateformers.
2 09 : Backroute : now, spawn rate at 99 and reduction of the "bar thin" on which the exit is located.

2 12 : Well done ! Nice alternative solution.
2 14 : Well done ! Very close to the intended solution.
2 16 : Too funny ! ??? :lem-shocked: But it’s a backroute : basher and preplaced lemmings removed.
2 18 : Well done ! This is the solution I had imagined.
2 20 : Ok ! Simplified level. Fewer builders. ;P
2 21 : Well done ! Close to the intended solution.
2 25 : Little backroute ! Now, 19 lemmings must be saved (instead of 18).

6 12 : Backroute : 46 lemmings must be saved (instead of 43), I changed a steel and I removed some skills.
6 20 : From now on, the five unlock buttons are clearly visible, but I wanted to keep the two pickup skills "hidden", because the animated objects (on either side of the closed exit) indicate to dig the block "waves" first and the "scarab" block second. :evil: :smug: :crylaugh:
6 22 : Well done ! :thumbsup:

Bye !

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #76 on: January 03, 2021, 05:09:42 PM »
Even more replays. :)

Resolved rank 2+6 and solved rank 5.

Comments

- It seems like 100 metres 17 and  Marathon_14 still got the same level ID.

- 6 20 is fine now! :thumbsup: Thanks for the alteration!
- 2 06 + 6 16 The fix idea is fine, but I would move the steel more inwards about 5 pixels on each side. Right now it isn't really recognisable as steel as it's grey on grey.

- 5 12 (+ 5 09)  It is a really bad idea to take already existing and well known objects and suddenly give them another function! You can just use your custom Ankh button instead of an edited decoration object. The rule is applicable in general: Do not simply take already existing objects and give them another function that then holds true just in one pack. Otherwise it will be chaos!

- 5 17 + 5 19 + 5 23 You know what I'm about to say here. ;)   Shorten the gaps, reduce the castle by 1 or 2 floors to reduce the builderfests.

My favorites of the rank were: 5 04, 5 11, 5 20 and 5 23! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2021, 10:05:50 AM »
Quote
It seems like 100 metres 17 and  Marathon_14 still got the same level ID.
Problem solved. Thank you !

2 06 + 6 16 : Steels are more visible now ! Thank you !
2 07 : Little backroute : one trap added.

5 02 : Well done ! Close to the intended solution. :thumbsup:
5 04 : Well done ! This is one of the two solutions intended.
5 05 : Little backroute : five builders removed !
5 06 : Beautiful alternative solution ! My solution doesn’t use the digger ! ;P
5 09 : I understand the trouble, because the button is normally a trap, but I don't think it’s a problem if this principe is used sparingly ! Moreover, the trap dragon has its mouth open so the button dragon has its mouth closed. :laugh:
5 12 : Backroute : I added some steels and, ok, I changed the unlock button (Ankh is better !). ;)
5 14 : Little backroute : hole added.
5 17 : There are few levels in my pack using a lot of builders. I understand that bothers you, but I like sometimes playing kind of levels ! :P However, I made some changes in the levels 5 19 and 5 23.
5 18 : Little backroute : stopper and bomber removed.
5 19 : Tower closer to the castle, one tree added and nine fewer builders. :-[ :P
5 20 : Well done ! But this alternative solution doesn’t satisfy me : one steel added.
5 23 : The two islands have been brought closer to reduce the number of builders to use. ;P
5 24 : Little backroute : a third unlock button added.

6 12 : Backroute : one steel added.

Thank you IchoTolot ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2021, 11:29:14 PM »
More replays. :)

Resolved rank 2+5+6 and solved rank 4.

Comments

I appreciate the changes to lower the builder ammount and the one in 5 12! :thumbsup:

4 02 And here I need to nag again about the unnessesarily wide gaps you need to build across. ;)

4 05 was the hardest level of the pack for me so far. The solution I found is quite precise, but still nice. :) It's also one of my favorites :thumbsup: even though if this is intended, a tiny bit more leeway for reaching the upper neutral chamber could be given. ;)

5 15 Remove the timer or reduce the lem count. :devil: It made me ONLY turn up the RR earlier.

4 22 If my solution is not a backroute, I don't the the reason for the timer. I catched the reason in 4 18 though. ;)

4 23 You know exactly what I'm gonna say here. ;P  50 builders is too much when most of the time you just mindlessly build upwards.

More favorites were: 4 06, 4 12, 4 16 and 4 19  :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2021, 02:49:28 PM »
And here is the rest of the pack - or rather the missing rank 3 ;P

Comments

- Morning Walk 25 and Running 4 still have the same level ID. ;)

- 3 05 The timer makes no sense here.

- 3 06 Let's say the timer doesn't make the level better here. Otherwise it's an even simpler bomber turorial though. I would change the level to something better/different here to be honest.

- 3 22 The exit should be made visible here.

My favorites were: 3 03, 3 13 and especially 3 15! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2021, 02:43:50 PM »
Quote
Morning Walk 25 and Running 4 still have the same level ID. ;)
Problem solved. ;)

2 07 : Beautiful alternative solution, fairly close to the intended solution !

3 02 : Backroute : the steel has been moved. One less builder.
3 05 : Time deleted, it was a mistake. Thank you ! :P
3 06 : You are right. I recreate the level !
3 08 : I removed some skills.
3 10 : Little backroute : one block that I reduced.
3 11 : Little backroute : bombers removed.
3 13 : Well done ! But we can use the first basher differently !
3 14 : Backroute : fewer skills, one "owa" and one zombie added.
3 15 : Well done ! Very close to the indended solution !
3 16 : :lem-shocked: Backroute : a precipice added.
3 17 : Little backroute : one pickup skill added.
3 18 : Little backroute : ok ! I just removed one walker and added thirty more lemmings.
3 22 : I like the invisible exit, sometimes. I don't find it embarrassing in this level ! :-[
3 23 : Little backroute : one steel removed.
3 25 : Little backroute : less snow...

4 01 : :lem-mindblown: Backroute : digger removed.
4 02 : I understand :-\ but, I find this level nice ! ;P
4 04 : Well done !
4 05 : Well done ! But the intended solution is a little easier than yours !
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
4 15 : Backroute : in fact, the time limit is useful in this level to avoid backroutes, but unfortunately, I left too much time : 1’15 now ! :P
4 17 : Backroute : a precipice added.
4 21 : Little backroute : I reduced the number of lemmings and removed the entrance.
4 22 : Backroute : two traps added, time removed and one basher replaced by one digger.
4 23 : Level recreated ! ;P
4 24 : Little backroute : steels added.
4 25 : Little backroute : one unclok button added.

5 05 : :lem-shocked: Backroute : steels added.
5 12 : :lem-mindblown: Backroute : one steel added !
5 14 : Little backroute : pickup skill added.
5 18 : Backroute : one block added.

6 12 : :-[ Little backroute : I move one lollipop !

Thank you very much, IchoTolot, for all your replays !!! I really really really appreciate your advice !!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 02:58:43 PM by David »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #81 on: January 06, 2021, 05:53:50 PM »
I resolved the levels! :)

The recreated levels are much better now! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I still think there are a couple of backroutes left though.

Quote
4 15 : Backroute : in fact, the time limit is useful in this level to avoid backroutes, but unfortunately, I left too much time : 1’15 now !

I don't think the timer is the optimal way to block the backroute though --> see replay.   Maybe a pick-up skill is the more efficient way.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2021, 12:24:34 PM »
3 02 : Little backroute : time limit added. :-[ :P
3 10 : Little backroute : stoppers removed, four traps and disarmer added.
3 14 : Little backroute : arrows added.
3 16 : Backroute : some changes…
3 18 : Little backroute : less lemmings, steels added…

4 15 : Little backroute : pickup skill added. Thanks ! ;P
4 17 : Nice solution ! Well done !
4 22 : I realy like your solution ! :thumbsup:
4 24 : Little backroute : steel added.

5 05 : Little backroute : steels added.
5 18 : Backroute : steels added.

Thank you ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2021, 05:33:35 PM »
And here is the resolve. ;)

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2021, 06:56:39 PM »
3 10 : Valid alternative solution. Well done ! But, it's possible to solve this level without using climbers ! ;P
4 24 : Little backroute : one steel added.
5 18 : Valid alternative solution. Well done ! :P

For all other levels, you have made the intended solution, or a solution very close to the intended solution. ;P

Right ! You are very good at solving levels ! I know, my pack wasn't very difficult... :laugh:
Anyway, thanks for those replays ! All this made me progress and learn more (new) tricks... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2021, 09:19:49 PM »
Resolved the level. :)

Your pack has definitly some bite! I would classify it as Medium or Medium-Hard.

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2021, 09:53:40 PM »
Perfect !

Medium / Medium-Hard : that's what I thought !!! ;P

I have attached my solution for level 4 05, the level you found so difficult !
That's right, it's not easy ! And the access to the upper neutral chamber is voluntarily complicated. :laugh:

Thank you again IchoTolot ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2021, 10:12:01 AM »
I actually forgot one comment:   

- 4 07: You have to assign every lemming a swimmer here before he drops into the water. Why not make the hatch spawn pre-assigned swimmers so you don't have to do it all manually 20 times? ???


Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2021, 01:33:15 PM »
It's true ! Thank you ! I fixed this little "problem" ! ;P

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2021, 05:57:02 AM »
Hi David, I just noticed Icho will be putting your pack on Youtube. Also didn't realize you changed 4-24(blue lagoon). So I solved it but backrouted it . I didn't even get the climber pickup.

here is the replay


Also I put it on Youtube (backroute 4-24, blue lagoon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvFEGGeJQr0
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 06:32:49 AM by ericderkovits »

Offline David

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2021, 01:16:08 PM »
Hello ericderkovits,

Thanks for these informations !
For level Blue lagoon : well done ! I like very much your solution, it's still quite difficult, and for me, it's not really a backroute. It's a nice alternative solution, even if you haven't used the pickup climber !!! So, for the moment, I don't think I will make any changes to this level... :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2021, 09:40:36 PM »
Yes, the videos of my solutions will start to appear in a few days. If I remember, I will link the first one here. ;)