Author Topic: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]  (Read 30481 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Hello everybody,

I'm new in this awesome forum that brings the game back to life from my childhood, and I want to share with you my The Lemmings Have Grown Pack, comprising 156 levels and using the latest version of NeoLemmix (V12.10.0).

Unfortunately, I am not a computer expert, I am not very good at English (the level titles are in French :P ) and I am not familiar with your codes and habits. So, this pack does not use the original "styles" and "sounds" folders ; in fact, I added a lot of little things to the existing tilesets (the lastest updates), which is why the downloadable file contains my level pack and my styles and sound folders. :D

My pack includes 6 ranks, with increasing difficulty levels :

1) Morning walk
2) Fast walk
3) Running
4) 100 metres
5) 400 metres
6) Marathon

(sorry, I don't know how to import images ???:-[)

My pack : The Lemmings Have Grown (updated !)

Updated styles (December 02, 2020) : davidz_styles

At last, I would like to warmly thank all of the creators/designers who are involved in improving this game ! It’s awesome ! :thumbsup:

David
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 10:19:33 PM by David »

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 05:59:59 PM »
Welcome to the forums! :thumbsup:

The pack sounds gread and I will definitly take a look at it soon. :)

There is one thing though:

Quote
So, this pack does not use the original "styles" and "sounds" folders ; in fact, I added a lot of little things to the existing tilesets (the lastest updates), which is why the downloadable file contains my level pack and my styles and sound folders.

What styles did you add/change? If I would be overwriting my existent styles folder it will lead to problems in the future and I won't create an extra NL installation for 1 pack.

Instead, could you please create a new "david_special" style and put all your new tiles/objects etc into it? ???

Link to the reasons why: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4192.0

Sorry to overwhelm you with this right at the beginning, but changing existing styles already lead to huge messes in the past. :(

And with a "david_special" style you got all your current and future extra stuff together under your control without any compability issues for users. ;)


Quote
(sorry, I don't know how to import images ???:-[)

I, for example, upload my pictures to imgur and get share links for forums from there. :)

I wish you have a great time here. :thumbsup:

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12399
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 06:16:22 PM »
To add to this: You do not need to go through and change everything manually. Chances are most of this can be automated - as this is an understandable mistake for a new user to make, I'm happy to help sort this out, I'll take a look at it later today.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2020, 06:28:03 PM »
Thank you for this warm welcome Ichotolot and namida ! ;)

In fact, I have two installations of NL on my computer: one with my styles, the other with the standard styles. :P

In fact, I created a few styles a while back (under the name davidz), which I updated today :

davidz_addamscrypt
davidz_addamsgallery
davidz_autumn
davidz_gold
davidz_marble_blue
davidz_marble_red
davidz_psychedelic_forest
davidz_raymancandy
davidz_special


Then I made some additions to the following styles (some tiles, sound...) :

arty_silhouette
flopsy_scrapbrain
gigalem_fortune
gigalem_ghz
gigalem_relic
gronkling_beast
gronkling_menace
l2_egyptian
l2_medieval
l2_space
namida_sky
namida_space
ohno_brick
ohno_rock
ohno_snow
orig_crystal
orig_dirt
orig_marble
orig_pillar
proxima_persia
zanzindorf_agony


Finally, in the following styles, I just added a sound (unlocked button and/or locked door):

default
dex_davinci
gigalem_lagoon
gigalem_purplemd
l3_shadow
namida_horror
orig_sega
plom_bastemp


And for the pictures, thank you, I understood ! :thumbsup:

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2020, 06:51:10 PM »
Here are the pictures of the first levels of each rank :thumbsup: :

1) Morning walk


2) Fast walk


3) Running


4) 100 metres


5) 400 metres


6) Marathon

Offline Proxima

  • Posts: 4569
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 07:31:04 PM »
Welcome, David :thumbsup:

Great to have you join us, and you clearly have a lot of artistic talent. I've only had a quick look so far, but some of your pieces are great additions to the style library. The only thing is, as Icho and namida have pointed out, it's really important that you either keep pieces in your own styles, or else cooperate with the style author in adding to their style, to avoid the situation where another designer uses some of your pieces thinking they are official, distributes a level, and then someone else can't play the level because they don't have the pieces (as well as other considerations namida went through in the post Icho linked to above).

In that spirit, I'm looking through the additions to proxima_persia. As far as I can see, these are all the new pieces:

Objects:

Button: Great idea to use the door-opening switch from Prince of Persia as a button. I haven't made a button object before so I need to double-check that everything is done in the way I would prefer, but this can definitely be added to the style officially.

Entrance 2 / Exit 2: These are much better than the lazy single-frame rips! They should just replace the old entrance/exit rather than existing as separate objects.

Spikes 3 / Spikes 4: I'm wary of these because they are invisible until activated, and general NL convention is not to do that (all traps should have secondary animations). Also, if they are to exist, then authors using the tileset would have to agree that the floor holes would only be used with the trap object -- unless the holes could become part of the object somehow? I need to think about this one.

Terrain:

Spikes: These should definitely not exist as terrain, because they already exist as a fire object (and a trap, though the trap version is distinct because the spikes start out retracted). Having some spikes be terrain (or in general, having terrain that looks like an object in the same style) is confusing to the player. I won't allow this to be part of my tileset, and I would strongly urge that you don't use this tile at all, though I can't enforce that.

Steel 2-6: You've replaced the pieces with identically named but distinct pieces that represent different stages of the gate opening or closing. I don't mind these pieces existing, but they need distinct names so they won't overwrite the old pieces.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 07:41:00 PM by Proxima »

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12399
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 07:42:39 PM »
Okay, I'm working

Any new pieces you've added will be moved to a style under your name with an "ex" suffix. For example, your additions to orig_dirt will go in to "davidz_dirt_ex".

Note that a few of your changes were outright changing an object's type, or moving its trigger area / point. This is an especially big no-no - one of NeoLemmix's core principles is that levels should not deceive the player. If the player is familiar with a style and knows an object to be a certain type, they should not suddenly find that it's a different type in your pack. Most of these cases were just changing "BACKGROUND" to "NO_EFFECT" (which doesn't actually affect the player directly, though there is also no reason to do this), but I noticed that in gronkling_cyber you changed a fire object to water, and in one of zanzindorf's styles you changed the trigger point of an entrance. For this reason, these changes will be REVERTED, not copied to custom styles. Do not manually work around this - use or create a different object that is more suitable instead.

I further note you've added an "updraft_invisible" object to L2_space. For much the same reason as above, invisible objects are a HUGE "do not do this" in NeoLemmix. There can be some very specific exceptions; these would generally only be done by an experienced designer who knows what they're doing and has specifically taken steps to keep it fair. (One example is "Luck Of The Draw" from Lemmings Plus IV, which is a special graphics level where a representation of the objects makes up part of the terrain.) I don't know whether this is the case in your pack or not as I haven't looked at the levels where this is used, but if it's an outright "There's an invisible updraft and you have to guess where it is" or "Some levels are entirely covered by an invisible updraft", this is bad design. On the other hand, if it's more similar to the Luck Of The Draw example, it might be more justifiable. As I have not looked into what the situation is here, I will leave this as-is - but I urge you to get rid of it and replace it with a visible updraft unless there is very good reason for using it, and simply "I think this is cool" does not qualify.

As some historical context - at one point, NeoLemmix was far less consistent about this kind of thing, and one of the frequent complaints was that the rules would be different for every pack a player played - which got confusing quickly. Thus, it is now a big deal that it should remain consistent, and fair.

Please don't take this too harshly. I'm aware that many fan-content communities, including other Lemmings communities (in particular the Lemmini community) are not so strict around this, and that the NeoLemmix community's stance here can be a bit unusual at first. This is not us saying we don't want your content here - we absolutely do, we just want to make sure you do it the proper way, and we're happy to help you achieve that (as you'll realise from the effort I'm putting in to fixing up your pack / styles here).

EDIT: And one other change - it's customary for piece names to only contain lowercase letters, numbers or underscores; so I'll also adjust all your piece names to fit this.

I'll post again when I've got an update for this.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 07:53:59 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2020, 07:53:35 PM »
Thank you very much Proxima and namida for all these details. I understand and I totally agree with you ! :thumbsup: In fact, I didn't know the usage conventions when I created these levels (and "augmented" the existing styles). I just wanted to have fun ! :P

Because of these multiple additions, I hesitated to propose the levels on this forum, because I knew that it was not good! :-[  But ... if necessary, I am ready to "readjust" my levels... Thanks a lot for your help !

However, I think the "updraft_invisible" is justified in the level where I use it (Seul sur la Lune, which means Alone on the Moon !) :laugh:

Offline mantha16

  • Posts: 287
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 07:58:30 PM »
It's great to have new content creators so welcome I look forward to playing your pack . I might wait though till you've made some of the amendments that have been recommended

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2020, 08:23:29 PM »
Hello mantha16 ! Thank you very much ! The welcome is very warm on this forum !!! I'm glad I signed up ! :thumbsup:
Now, we have to wait for the updates of the great namida... !!! ;P

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2020, 08:50:45 PM »
Welcome to the Forums David. It's always nice to have more new members join. Also great to have more packs availiable. So once Namida and you fix the style issues, it will be interesting to see these levels. Maybe now that 12.10 is released,  more packs will be released, as it seems we need more, especially easier ones.

Anyways,  once again Welcome to the forums.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2020, 08:57:49 PM »
Thank you very much ericderkovits for your welcome on this site ! ;) It's a real pleasure for me to be part of this small community and to share with you, with everyone !!!



One last thing namida ! You say :

Quote
Most of these cases were just changing "BACKGROUND" to "NO_EFFECT" (which doesn't actually affect the player directly, though there is also no reason to do this)

But there is a reason : "NO_EFFECT" images may be in the foreground or background while "BACKGROUND" images are always in the background (sometimes, I like to quibble ! :evil: ;P)

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2020, 09:07:29 PM »
Welcome to the forums, David! :) This looks like a pack I would like to play, which I definitely will check out once the styles have been tidied up. I might even LP your pack, after I've done a few that I have planned. Love the Tinker Bell level in the image you posted (I'm a huge Disney fan), so I'm looking forward to trying out that level, but especially playing the entire pack once it's stable and ready. It's very awesome whenever I see more packs being released, as I just love playing packs/content.

Anyway, enjoy your time here. You've definitely seen how very friendly this community is and are willing to extend some assistance if you need or request it. Out of curiosity, what is your experience in regards to playing the official Lemmings games/Lemmings custom packs? It sounds like you definitely have played the original Lemmings. Perhaps you've tried ONML too? How about Lemmings 2: The Tribes? What port(s) did you play the official games in growing up?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2020, 09:42:28 PM »
Thank you kaywhyn for this very friendly welcome ! :thumbsup: I also like Disney a lot, I'm not really a fan, but I have always liked the fairytale universe a lot (well... I also love thrillers and horror films, but that's not the subject :evil: ;P!)

Lemmings Original is, along with Rayman and Adibou, THE GAME of my childhood. I played it exclusively on a computer (under Dos, at the time : 1990s). So I played all the originals (including Oh no! And xmas) but I played very little Lemmings 2 (I really didn't like it !). I also tested, with wonder, some namida packs and some packs from other creators. 8-)

As I said before, I'm not a geek (far from it), but when I discovered Lemmix, then NeoLemmix, I wanted to create my own levels myself when I had free time ! It took me a long time to figure out how this "new-old" game works.

Uh, what does "LP my pack" mean ? :lem-shocked: :lem-mindblown: ???

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2020, 09:52:09 PM »
Lemmings Original is, along with Rayman and Adibou, THE GAME of my childhood. I played it exclusively on a computer (under Dos, at the time : 1990s). So I played all the originals (including Oh no! And xmas) but I played very little Lemmings 2 (I really didn't like it !). I also tested, with wonder, some namida packs and some packs from other creators. 8-)

I don't blame you regarding Lemmings 2. I didn't like it too much either, but at the same time it was an ok game. I still enjoyed it, though.

Quote
Uh, what does "LP my pack" mean ? :lem-shocked: :lem-mindblown: ???

LP stands for "let's play." Basically, I record myself playing and solving the pack. I enjoy these videos when others do it, because you get to see how someone solves your levels on camera in real time, as well as hear his or her thoughts aloud (what was liked/disliked about the level, was it a good/not so good level, etc). Not to mention it's always fun to compare solutions to that of other players on some of the levels. I recently started LPing level packs, and I got to say I am absolutely enjoying my LP experience thus far, so I decided that I'll be doing many more in the future. Both of my LPs seem to be getting quite a positive reception. Be on the lookout for them! I'll be starting another one soon. Not your pack right away, but a couple of smaller packs in the meantime just to ease myself into LPing much bigger packs.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2020, 10:06:45 PM »
"Let's play", of course ! I've seen videos like this on Youtube before, but I'm not familiar with this stuff ! It's a geek thing ! ;P But it is a very interesting practice, as much for the one who makes it as for the one who created the levels ! I am curious... ;)

In fact, I'm a fan of the first lemmings. It's like my first love ;P ! Lemmings 2 is still a very cool game, but, in my opinion, there were too many skills ! Too complicated ! :forehead:

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12399
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2020, 11:01:27 PM »
You might need to do some manual work on these levels:

"Tapis roulant" in the "100 metres" rank. If the change of the fire object to a water object was to allow use of a Swimmer, you'll need to replace it with an actual water object. (If it was purely cosmetic, this level will be fine.)
"Le phare" in the "400 metres" rank. This one used the entrance you moved the trigger point of; you will need to either redo your replay (if suitable) or move / replace the entrance.

All other levels should be fine using the attached version of the pack + styles. Please don't rely on this post as the final copy - download them, look over them yourself, make sure everything really is working as expected (at the minimum run a mass replay check to confirm all levels remain solvable), then release it.

Your styles, including updates to your existing ones, have been added to the NeoLemmix styles collection (in this corrected form), so you only need to ship the levels, not the styles/sounds, in the future. I have included a zip of all your styles (including the new ones that I have moved your additions to other styles into) here, for your own use or for anyone who wants to quickly download all of them at once.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2020, 11:37:59 PM »
Thank you very much namida for this great job !!!! :thumbsup: I will solve the few problems that I notice ! ;)
However, I can't open some levels ("Bonds et rebonds", "La peste verte" etc.) with NeoLemmix Editor :

Error while loading the level. Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

Do I have to recreate the failed levels or can you do it yourself ? :cute: ???

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2020, 12:08:21 AM »
Here ! I made a few small fixes and everything seems to be working fine :
The Lemmings Have Grown (pack)

However, I am unable to open the following levels with NLEditor while they open correctly with NeoLemmix (I don't know why :lem-mindblown::lem-shocked::lem-mindblown::lem-shocked::lem-mindblown:):

Bonds et rebonds
La peste verte
Espace en distorsion
L'Académie des 9
Le lac
Les marches de l'invisible
L'île au trésor
Blue Lagoon
Renaissance
Stalactites
Amor
E-toiles
Le prisonnier d'Alcatraz
Cyber-machin-truc
Jeu de piste morbide
Retour au XVe siecle
Scenario de film d'horreur
Soucoupes violentes

Offline Proxima

  • Posts: 4569
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2020, 12:20:56 AM »
I'm working on integrating the new additions into the proxima_persia style, after which davidz_persia shouldn't need to exist separately.

* Entrance and exit have no problems.

* Button and locked exit are okay for now, but the locked exit needs to open to reveal stairs rather than the plain teal rectangle. I can do this, but I won't get to it tonight.

* I like your idea of the floor spike holes being a trap (while the "out" spikes will still be a fire object), but if we're going to make that change, the holes have to become part of the trap graphic; I'm not happy about the idea of just trusting that designers will use the trap together with the terrain holes. Again, I can do this myself but I don't know when I will have time.

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2020, 12:48:18 AM »
Hey David, It would be nice to have custom music for this pack as it would make the pack that much more enjoyable instead of just the default Amiga tunes.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2020, 01:42:47 AM »
In fact, the levels that I can't open on NLEditor are the levels where I have grouped parts together (using the Group button). Apparently, NLEditor does not recognize these kinds of objects. Is there a solution to fix this problem ? ??? :lem-shocked:

Proxima : Thank you for these explanations ! I totally agree with you. Regarding the traps, indeed, the holes should be part of the trap's graphics. I'm sure you can do something awesome ! ;P :thumbsup: (since I love astronomy, I like your nickname very much... and your profile picture !)

Ericderkivots : Yeah, I've thought about it too, but, I admit, I don't know what music to use ! If you have ideas for me, I am (very) interested ... ;)

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12399
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2020, 02:08:07 AM »
Quote
In fact, the levels that I can't open on NLEditor are the levels where I have grouped parts together (using the Group button). Apparently, NLEditor does not recognize these kinds of objects. Is there a solution to fix this problem ? ???

This is a bug in the editor. I've figured out how to fix it and will upload an update shortly. EDIT: Done, here's the link: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?id=468
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 02:13:22 AM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2020, 02:42:59 AM »
RE: David
 There are alot of packs that have nice custom music. Probably the packs that seems to have good custom music are and I would perhaps look at first and download from are:

1) assorted Gubbins
2) clammings
3) Seblems
4) Sublems
5) Reunion
6) United
7) Pimolems

And if there any levels you think may be nice with classical music you can download the music from

1) Renaissance Lemmings
2) Classical Lemmings
3) And Arty's Artlems

Of course there are other packs too so just look around in the neolemmix levels board and download some of the above packs music or any other packs.

Of course these are all new format packs so it's easy to put your choices into your new formats music folder. Maybe make a subfolder in the music folder and store them in the subfolder. Then use the editor to put your tune choice for each level in the music window of the editor using the subfolder.

Of course these packs are just my first choices to look at. I'm sure other people will have packs maybe to pick from.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2020, 02:29:58 PM »
Thank you very much namida, you're doing a wonderful job ! Everything is working fine now !!! ;) :thumbsup:

Ericderkovits, thank you for all these suggestions, but ... I don't know where to find all this music (on the forum or elsewhere ?). I already have the music from the namida packs and the renaissance pack. But I get lost in the meanders of the site... :laugh:

Otherwise, I have finished correcting a few small problems (on the levels !) but which are without consequence on the game ! :) I will soon re-propose a download of the complete pack with the musics. But... later ! :crylaugh:

EDIT : It's ok, I found all the music. Thanks ! (you have to tell me "everything" (all the explanations, all links...) so that I don't get lost :XD:)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 02:46:59 PM by David »

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2020, 03:04:45 PM »
"Let's play", of course ! I've seen videos like this on Youtube before, but I'm not familiar with this stuff ! It's a geek thing ! ;P But it is a very interesting practice, as much for the one who makes it as for the one who created the levels ! I am curious... ;)

At least for me, LPing is a lot of fun. I'm glad that I recently got into doing them ;) I will most certainly let you know when I have started playing this pack when I have started the LP and provide you a link, especially since you're the pack author. Anyone is still welcome to watch them :P

Quote
In fact, I'm a fan of the first lemmings. It's like my first love ;P ! Lemmings 2 is still a very cool game, but, in my opinion, there were too many skills ! Too complicated ! :forehead:

Same! For Lemmings 2, agree completely. Not only that, a lot of the skills were extremely redundant, since some did the same thing, just had some variation in the effect, like club basher (removes a much larger amount of terrain per stroke) vs the regular basher, or stomper (basically a much faster version of the digger since it removes slightly more terrain per jump) vs digger.

Hey David, It would be nice to have custom music for this pack as it would make the pack that much more enjoyable instead of just the default Amiga tunes.
Thank you very much namida, you're doing a wonderful job ! Everything is working fine now !!! ;) :thumbsup:

Ericderkovits, thank you for all these suggestions, but ... I don't know where to find all this music (on the forum or elsewhere ?). I already have the music from the namida packs and the renaissance pack. But I get lost in the meanders of the site... :laugh:

Otherwise, I have finished correcting a few small problems (on the levels !) but which are without consequence on the game ! :) I will soon re-propose a download of the complete pack with the musics. But... later ! :crylaugh:

EDIT : It's ok, I found all the music. Thanks ! (you have to tell me "everything" (all the explanations, all links...) so that I don't get lost :XD:)

There's absolutely no requirement that a level pack needs to have custom music. Just like David said, there's far more important issues to take care of, namely, fixing levels to make sure they're working as intended in the styles after the tidying up of the styles. Music, and by extension custom music, can always come at a later time. It may affect one's playing experience, but it most certainly won't affect play-ability of the levels/pack, which is much more important in ensuring anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2020, 04:10:41 PM »
Quote
I will most certainly let you know when I have started playing this pack when I have started the LP and provide you a link

Thanks kaywhyn, that's great ! I will be very happy ! ;P :thumbsup:

So, I fixed two/three levels that had some issues : they were too hard to solve because tiles or objects were not in the right place ! :forehead:

For the music, you're right, I'll see later... It isn't the most important for the moment ;)

Here, the download link for my updated pack : The Lemmings have grown :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2020, 07:03:51 PM »
On the forum, I saw the word "backroute" several times. What does that mean, exactly ?
????????????

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12399
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2020, 07:44:03 PM »
If you haven't already, I suggest editing the first post of the topic to put the new link (instead of the old one), if applicable.

On the forum, I saw the word "backroute" several times. What does that mean, exactly ?
????????????

At the most simple, a "backroute" is a solution to a level, that wasn't intended by the author. Some authors (myself included) will further only consider a solution a backroute, if the solution is much easier and/or avoids certain specific parts of the intended solution (for example, I generally won't consider a solution a backroute if the player has swapped a Builder and a Platformer around but otherwise found the intended solution).

It's really somewhat subjective, and up to level authors to decide but ultimately - if you see someone's solution to your level and think, "they shouldn't be able to do it that way!", it's a "backroute".
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2020, 08:04:55 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion ! That's it : I updated the link on the first post ! :P

"Backroute" is a funny neologism ! I understand the meaning of this word very well, and I find it very useful when playing NeoLemmix. I have often found solutions (much) easier than those I had initially imagined when playing my own levels... or sometimes in Lemmings Original ! ;)

Thank you, namida, for this very clear explanation ! :thumbsup:

Offline mantha16

  • Posts: 287
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2020, 12:24:52 AM »
theres no styles in the download so I cant play can you please add your custom styles folder please

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2020, 01:12:08 AM »
Hello mantha16,

You need to download styles updates here (namida added my styles and my extensions a few days ago) : NeoLemmix Engine

;P :thumbsup:

Offline mantha16

  • Posts: 287
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2020, 02:48:02 AM »
if theyve been added I dont need to download it again I just use the update manager in the player thanks

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2020, 03:16:11 AM »
Quote
if theyve been added I dont need to download it again I just use the update manager in the player thanks

Okay ! I didn't know this feature ! ??? ;P

For information, due to a small error in level 11 of the Fast walk rank, Une partie de morpion (too many lemmings !), I just updated the level pack (in the first post) : Back to the first post.
:thumbsup:

Offline Gronkling

  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2020, 06:52:14 PM »
I just finished your level pack. There's some nice levels in there, Marathon 10 particularly stood out to me as a genuinely great level :thumbsup:. I did find however there were a lot of levels that were mostly just A LOT of building with not much else, which I didn't find very fun. The decoration was often really nice though! I'd say the difficulty of this pack is "Intermediate", I think someone who enjoyed the original lemmings style of level design might like it.


Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2020, 09:33:03 PM »
Thank you very much Gronkling ! Your feedbacks are precious to me !
:thumbsup:

I just watched your replays (half of it !), and I noticed a lot of backroutes (over 20). In fact, as I am not a professional, there are a lot of tricks that I didn't know and that I discovered since my registration on the forum (and with PimoLems pack, which I am playing).

I'll correct all of these mistakes, give you a detailed feedback, and update my level pack soon !
:thumbsup: ;P

Offline mantha16

  • Posts: 287
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2020, 09:40:36 PM »
I dont know if you have already tried it David but IchoTolots introduction pack is really good for learning new tricks

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2020, 10:19:21 PM »
I just watched your replays (half of it !), and I noticed a lot of backroutes (over 20). In fact, as I am not a professional, there are a lot of tricks that I didn't know and that I discovered since my registration on the forum (and with PimoLems pack, which I am playing).

I'll correct all of these mistakes, give you a detailed feedback, and update my level pack soon !
:thumbsup: ;P

I was planning on playing the pack this weekend, but I think it would be better to wait for your patch as then you can see if your fixes had the intended effect. :)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2020, 11:14:57 PM »
Quote
I dont know if you have already tried it David but IchoTolots introduction pack is really good for learning new tricks

Thanks for the information ! I'll go take a look ! :P

Quote
I was planning on playing the pack this weekend, but I think it would be better to wait for your patch as then you can see if your fixes had the intended effect. :)

As I have some free time, I will be doing all the updates before this weekend. I'm almost done ! :thumbsup:

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2020, 01:11:55 AM »
It's done: the pack has just been updated : First post
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thank you very much Gronkling.
:thumbsup:;P

:lemming:Morning Walk :
Level 3 : there is a much easier way with less skills !
Level 6 : there is a easier solution ; and you failed to get the talisman !
Level 7 : fixed backroute : I removed the stopper skill !
Level 19: I never would have thought of doing it like this : there were easier solutions.
Level 20 : you can do the level more simply, without disarmer or floater.

:lemming::lemming:Fast walk :
Level 1 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 3 : fixed backroute : second trap added.
Level 5 : fixed backroute : spawn rate at 65 (instead of 40).
Level 7 : fixed backroute : basher removed.
Level 11 : the level is quite possible !!!
Level 12 : I like your solution, but it was much easier (with 5 builders, as well).
Level 14 : fixed backroute : shimmier removed !
Level 16 : fixed backroutes : neutral lemmings added.
Level 17 : it could be easier !
Level 18 : ok, it works, but we can do it with less skills (climber removed).
Level 20 : fixed backroute : a tile removed.
Level 21 : perfect ! I removed 2 extra builders !
Level 24 : ok, but no talisman !
Level 25 : exactly as I had imagined, but no talisman !

:lemming::lemming::lemming:Running :
Level 2 : fixed backroute : a builder removed.
Level 3 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 4 : no replay ?? I remove the talisman.
Level 6 : fixed backroute : two pickup skills added.
Level 10 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 12 : well done !
Level 14 : fixed backroute : owa right added.
Level 15 : well done, but you did not earn the talisman !
Level 17 : fixed backroute : owa right added.
Level 18 : fixed backroute.
Level 19 : fixed backroute : glider removed.
Level 21 : fixed backroute.
Level 23 : fixed backroute
Level 25 : fixed backroute : 51 lemmings must be saved (not 50).
Level 26 : fixed backroute : a pickup skill added.

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:100 metres :
Level 6 : fixed backroute : trap added.
Level 11 : and the talisman ?
Level 15 : fixed backroute : 1 min 30 (instead of  2 min).
Level 20 : fixed backroutes : one basher removed and one digger added.
Level 21 : fixed backroutes : tiles added, bombers removed.
Level 22 : fixed backroutes : tiles added, a walker removed.
Level 25 : fixed backroute : too simple without the talisman (this level must now be completed in 1 min) !
Level 26 : fixed backroute : arrows were in the wrong direction !!!

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:400 metres :
Level 2 : exactly as I had imagined. But from now on, all the lemmings will have to be saved (talisman removed).
Level 3 : without using the climber, well done. But I will also remove the talisman : 5 minutes maximum.
Level 5 : good, but we can do it using 13 builders, maybe less : I'm going to reduce the number of builders.
Level 8 : fixed backroute.
Level 10 : fixed backroute : a glider removed.
Level 11 : nice solution. I'll take a walker off.
Level 12 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 17 : fixed backroute : one fencer removed, one basher added.
Level 19 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 20 and 25 : no replay ??? Levels are possible !
Level 26 : fixed backroute !

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:Marathon :
Level 2 : fixed backroute !
Level 3 : well done ! Talisman removed.
Level 5, 6, 14 and 16 : no replay ??? Don't you like zombies ?
Level 11 : fixed backroutes : 3 bashers only.
Level 12 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 15 : fixed backroute.
Level 18 : fixed backroute.
Level 20 : fixed backroute : fewer builders and fewer bashers.
Level 22 : fixed backroutes : talisman removed and pickup skill added.
Level 23 : well done ! But the talisman ?
Level 25 : well done ! But your solution is very complicated !

As for the other levels, you took the paths I had imagined.
Thanks again ! Bye !
:thumbsup:

Offline Gronkling

  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2020, 01:55:05 AM »
Some of the replays didnt get saved because I manually save replays and forgot to do it a few times. I don't really tend to pay attention to talismans much so I think I missed a few. Also on a few levels I did a complicated solution for fun.
...I did skip a couple of the zombie levels because I find them really annoying personally, thats just my opinion though. :P

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2020, 03:40:53 AM »
Gronkling : ok, no problem ! :P
For the levels with zombies, I understand your opinion ! I feel the same ! ;P

I just did a last update (see first post) in which I deleted most of the talismans ! :thumbsup:

Offline Pieuw

  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2020, 05:13:09 PM »
I gave it a try but I quickly gave up because of the tribes skills and the zombies. What can I say, I'm a boring classic guy and I like my Lemmings the classic way. :crylaugh:

The few levels I played were neatly made and looked great though! It's great that new people keep creating level packs :thumbsup:

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2020, 05:56:15 PM »
Thanks Pieuw ! ;) When you say "tribes skills", do you mean "new skills" ?
You are old fashioned, it's a shame ! :D

Then, I counted, only 12 levels are with one (or more) zombies. It's not a lot ! :eyeroll:

Otherwise, I admire your work in PimoLems, you are very talented : levels are very well arranged, very well thought out. I just finished Stormy rank, having passed all levels ! Some of the Stormy rank gave me a hard time, in particular Stormy 4 (Rule of Three), Stormy 10 (Erbalunga), Stormy 12 (High Jump) and Stormy 20 (Let Them Eat Cake). On the other hand, I found Stormy 9 (A Matter of Pragmatism) particularly easy (I succeeded on the first try !), and Stormy 14 (Lemesis), Stormy 17 (Leavin 'on the Edge) and Stormy 19 (Tree-Athlon) levels seemed pretty easy to me. :P

In Windy rank, only Windy 11 (From Pillar to Post) seemed really difficult to me too : it took me a long time to find the solution ! :o

Loved most of the levels, it takes a lot of pragmatism to solve them : Windy 19 (Mizmaze) and Stormy 20 (Let Them Eat Cake) are my favorite. :thumbsup:

I also started, in parallel, Pickaxe and One ranks, very nice, but Temple Ruins (One 5) seemed to me disconcertingly easy !! ???

For now, I am stuck on the first level of Hurricane, very difficult ! :lem-mindblown: ???

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2020, 06:08:53 PM »
You probably found the same backroute like I did in "Temple Ruins"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4z73pNL_QA

I'm very sure, Icho will fix this and the many other backroutes :-)


Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2020, 06:24:52 PM »
Hello Swerdis : that's right ! I thought all the backroutes had been fixed ! :lem-shocked:
:thumbsup:

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2020, 06:28:10 PM »
No. Those I discovered have not been fixed so far - Icho wants to do this when I completed the pack ;)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2020, 06:45:47 PM »
Okay ! Besides, I also found a very easy path in Stormy 8 (Broad Pit), using only two builders. I think it's a backroute ! :lem-shocked:

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2020, 06:57:38 PM »
When you have remaining skills in the end then it's actually always a backroute. Most level-creators don't provide red-herring-skills - since they often open backroutes. I backrouted this level (Broad Pit) too  - but I had only a basher and a floater left. Icho has youtube-videos of every level with the intended solution - so you can compare.

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2020, 07:04:14 PM »
also Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.


NOTE: Though we should post anything for Pimolems in the Pimolems topic, since this is for David's new pack.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 07:10:24 PM by ericderkovits »

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2020, 07:07:57 PM »
Swerdis : Alright, I understand ! So, I found a lot of backroutes ! :P

Here, my solution of Stormy 8 (Broad Pit)
:P

By the way, how do you attach a file ? ????????????

Quote
also Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.

Great ! I didn't know ! Thank you !! :thumbsup:

Quote
NOTE: Though we should post anything for Pimolems in the Pimolems topic, since this is for David's new pack.

It's true, sorry ! It's my fault ! :-[

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2020, 07:15:54 PM »
But sometimes these solutions don't work anymore because you (and I) played an already patched version. A good example ist Hurricane 19 which originally was created with 3 miners. But you will have to solve it with only 2.

Yeah, we should! My fault, too :-(

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2020, 07:19:13 PM »
RE: David

To attach something just use the attachments below the post and where it says choose file, just open your file. You can have up to 6 files(max 32.7MB). If there are more than 6 files(ie replays)
just use a compression method like winzip or winrar(this way you can have more than 6). Still must be less than the 32.7MB. Many times people use Dropbox or other programs for people to use
when this goes over. Especially for music files since they tend to use up a lot of space.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2020, 07:21:34 PM »
As I understand it, only a few levels have been updated ! I see it's important for multiple players to play a level pack to spot and fix all the backroutes. It's very interesting ! ;)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2020, 07:25:59 PM »
ericderkovits : I hadn't even paid attention : I must be blind !
:lem-mindblown: :D

Otherwise, I use MEGA (for packs, levels...) and Imgur (for pictures) !

Thank you very much !
:thumbsup:

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2020, 07:32:34 PM »
When you have remaining skills in the end then it's actually always a backroute. Most level-creators don't provide red-herring-skills - since they often open backroutes. I backrouted this level (Broad Pit) too  - but I had only a basher and a floater left. Icho has youtube-videos of every level with the intended solution - so you can compare.

Not necessarily. You can have some skills leftover and while it might not be exactly intended, it'll still be deemed acceptable.

also Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.

Not really relevant, since a lot of the levels have been patched out and so many of Pieuw's original solutions don't hold up anymore. Especially since Lemmini is very different from NL and the NL version is a conversion where the original glitch levels don't work.

As for posting in the relevant topics, should sound familiar to you, since I told you the same thing when you first started out. Admins, feel free to move the relevant posts to the Pimolems topic.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Pieuw

  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2020, 08:03:37 PM »
Thanks Pieuw ! ;) When you say "tribes skills", do you mean "new skills" ?
You are old fashioned, it's a shame ! :D
Yes, I mean skills that were not in the original game. I don't really know why but I've never been interested in Lemmings 2 and its gameplay additions. :XD: I like Lemmings the way it is: simple, basic, yet infinite in its possibilities. :laugh:

About Pimolems, I'll answer in the relevant topic :)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2020, 09:10:27 PM »
Quote
Yes, I mean skills that were not in the original game. I don't really know why but I've never been interested in Lemmings 2 and its gameplay additions. :XD: I like Lemmings the way it is: simple, basic, yet infinite in its possibilities. :laugh:

Okay ! I can understand ! Either way, you're very good at creating simple, basic levels ! Bravo ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2020, 07:51:04 PM »
I played the pack a bit today and here is some feedback. Warning I will focus on stuff that can be improved here as these were the things that interrupted my enjoyment of playing the pack ;):

- First of all: The levels look really nice! :thumbsup:

-  I solved the first rank and parts of the last rank (1-8 + the last 2 levels) to get a feeling how this pack is difficulty wise. I would rank it simply as "Medium".

- The biggest thing to improve the pack would be: Throw out the timers! Out of the levels I solved the only nessesary timer I have seem would be: 1 11. That's it.
  So many times I had to rewind to: A) Increase the RR earlier while changing nothing else. B) Slightly change some assignments to save a couple extra seconds while still execution the same solution again.
  This just makes the pack a lot more annoying. Throw them out, put away the nostalgia that every level needs a timer. 95% of them don't need it and they make a otherwise good level way worse. Prime example: 1 05 where i had to rewind multiple times to turn up the RR again after I needed to change some assignments. Otherwise it was a good level!:)

- Some of the objects/tiles are very misleading. As they could be your personal additions I include the cases here in my feedback. If they are not your additions think about maybe replacing them:
  A) In 1 14 is fish is solid terrain. In 1 18 the fish is now a background object or even a trap. If it's your addition: Choose 1 for it and make it consistent!
  B) 1 15 the giant invisible updraft. I know what you want to emulate but because of the updraft I can't seee the trap's or exit's trigger area resulting in more frustraition. Also in 1 23 we also have a space level, but this time no low gravity.
  C) The invisible exit in 1 08 and 1 18! An exit should be visible from the start! Please, choose a locked exit that is visible.
  D) No one can see if this is a splat pad or an anti-splat pad. Please use the standard red one for clarity purpose.
  E) 6 08 - let's say I needed a while figure out what is happening here and how those custom invisible updrafts work. Simply use and extend a standard one to cover the rooms as this is really confusing.
 
--> General rule for tileset additions: Clarity over style! Nothing should be invisible or misleading.

- 1 20: Hidden trap! :devil: Make it visible!

- The difficulty is a bit over the place. 1 01 - 1 06 is way harder than 1 14, 1 16, 1 22 for example. The last level 6 22 I would not consider more difficult than 1 18 as well.

- I noticed quite the inflation with builders later on. Try to turn down the builderfests a bit in the future. ;)

My favorites so far were: 1 05 (without the timer), 6 04 and 6 05 :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I attached my replays so far and will continue playing soon. :)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2020, 10:33:13 PM »
Thank you very much IchoTolot for these comments and advices. I will soon be updating all my levels (without invisible traps, without time limits... and taking into account the adjustments you offer me) ! :thumbsup:

For level 1 05, time adds to the difficulty, I find. Otherwise, I just removed the time on most of my levels (no useful, that's true !), however, I left it on some of them. ;)

For the fish terrain, it only appear in this level. In all the others levels it is trap or decoration (fountain). But I just solved the problem ! Thank you !

I hadn't paid attention to the fact that the updraft masked the trigger zones ! But of course, I agree ! I just removed the giant invisible updraft and I replaced it with a updraft visible only on the areas necessary for the resolution of the level (same for Apesanteur level, in Marathon rank)

Invisible exits : I knew this would be a problem ! I will redo the animations so that only the outlines of the output are visible (I think), which will make it easy to locate them. :P

Concerning the builders, there are particular (fanciful) levels where they are essential, in particular in the rank 100 metres. It must be said that they were used a lot in Original Lemmings.

The progression in difficulty is quite random. In fact, there is little difference between the beginning (rank 1) and the end (rank 6). The difficulty evolves between medium - and medium + ;P, with occasional some rather very easy ! However, I am complicating the easy levels, so that the difficulty is medium everywhere (I prefer that way !).

Your replays : I don't have much to say, except thank you and bravo ! ;P

Morning walk :
Level 2 : nice, but we can do a lot easier !
Level 7 : well done : I hadn't thought of doing it like this.

Marathon :
Level 5: My solution is very different from yours, but yours might be a little more complicated, just a little ! ;) Good !

Bye !

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3393
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2020, 06:48:00 AM »
Had a quick glance at some of these levels and really like the designs! I've added this to my LP List :lemcat:

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2020, 12:47:20 PM »
Thank you WillLem, it's nice ! I have a fairly developed artistic sense, it's true ! ;P

Right now, I'm updating my levels on Gronkling's and IchoTolot's advices, and I'm making the levels "more complex", because some levels are too easy and don't require a lot of thought : I make them more "in the spirit of NeoLemmix."

I will update this pack shortly ! :thumbsup:

Offline WillLem

  • Posts: 3393
  • Unity isn't sameness, it's togetherness
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2020, 09:38:07 PM »
I'm making the levels "more complex", because some levels are too easy and don't require a lot of thought

Don't make them too complex. The forums need more easy levels! ;P

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2020, 08:42:37 PM »
Quote
Don't make them too complex. The forums need more easy levels! ;P

Don't worry WillLem : it's just a little harder ! :P
Besides, is it true what you say ? There are few easy packs ? ???

I just updated my level pack following Gronkling and IchoTolot's advices (thank you ! ;)), including removing invisible locked exit, removing invisible updraft and removing timer (in 90% of levels). Finally, I made changes in a lot of levels to make them more engaging and more challenging. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Updated the following styles for download :

davidz_addamscrypt : invisible locked exit and teleporter-stopper/receiver-stopper removed.
davidz_gold : invisibile locked exit removed.
davidz_marble_ex : invisibile locked exit removed.
davidz_marble_blue : splat transformed into anti-splat (to avoid confusion !).
davidz_space_ex : updraft invisible removed.

Download updated styles and level pack in the First post ! :thumbsup:

Bye ! ;P

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2020, 09:41:35 PM »
There's just been a lot of hard content compared to easy stuff, especially in New Formats. Pretty good way to tell is you can look through the Neolemmix levels board and look at the packs that have a difficulty tag attached to them. You'll see there's little that are labeled easy/medium. Or, simply play through more packs. Generally, it's difficult for authors to judge the difficulty of their own packs, and this is where feedback on the levels for the author is helpful. Also, keep in mind the discussion that difficulty is subjective. What people found difficult might be easy for others or vice versa. Definitely the way to get better at level solving is to play more packs.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2020, 09:59:52 PM »
Thank you kaywhyn ! You are right ! ;)

There is more challenge in creating difficult levels. It's naturally more exciting, I think ! In fact, I imagine passionate gamers are talented, seasoned, and enjoy challenging (very) difficult levels !... :thumbsup:

However, easy levels are great for learning ! It's necessary for newcomers ;P But, are there many newcomers who don't know anything and want to "learn NeoLemmix" ? I don't know...

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2020, 10:09:32 PM »
Generally, almost everyone here has some experience with the official games, and it's usually recommended to play through them first before taking on custom level packs, since these tend to be far more difficult. There are some that have very little to none, but those are far and few in between. As for learning NL, there's always the NL manual and Icho's NL Tutorial Pack. Of course, it's not mandatory to play the official games first before playing custom packs. In the same way it's not necessary to play the NL Tutorial Pack before playing custom level packs for NL, but I still highly recommend that pack to anyone, whether a newcomer or expert. I'm a good example here, where upon switching to playing on NL last year I immediately took on the hardest pack there is in existence, United. I didn't familiarize myself with the controls by playing other packs on NL before this. Prior to playing United, I've been a heavy player on Lemmini/Superlemmini for 4-5 years, and I have played through Dovelems, Pimolems, Lemmings Reunion, and Sub Lems. Also, I'm a player who is willing to take on packs of any difficulty, so as you can see the extreme difficulty label of United didn't scare me from playing it. I seem to have a very high level of patience compared to most when it comes to playing/solving, as I'm willing to sit through levels and struggle with them until I get them solved on my own.

As I did mention before, this pack of yours is eventually on my to-play list. Just as soon as I get all of my planned LPs done :P
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2020, 10:23:51 PM »
Thank you for these explanations. For my part, I knew Lemmings Original and Christmas as a child, then I discovered Lemmix (many years after its release), NeoLemmix then. I had two problems : I did not know the existence of this forum and I had a busy life (so, little time to play). ;P

I told myself that by registering on this forum, I would learn a lot of things. And I confirm ! So, I've downloaded a lot of packs (the only ones I've played are namida's, but just a few, "sporadically"). I am currently with PimoLems, I advance at my own pace, and like you, I don't like giving up or looking at solutions. However... I'm not going to try Lemmings United yet. :thumbsup:

Besides, for updating styles : will namida take care of it ? ???

Offline grams88

  • Posts: 563
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2020, 12:34:40 AM »
Hey, I like the running rank names, that's actually quite cool. :thumbsup: I notice a lot of people are into their running this weather. I used to be actually quite good the running in the past but as of now not as good as I used to be. I was hoping to maybe do a half marathon in the future although that will be hard.

I think making levels difficult makes a challenge at least. I might maybe get round to playing your pack one time. Sorry I've not been playing packs lately. 

I'm sure your pack will be quite good. Getting into the level pack making is fun but sometimes can be tricky thinking of the ideas.

Good luck David :thumbsup:

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2020, 01:19:27 AM »
Hello grams88 ! Nice picture !!! I love Columbo, I watched all the episodes a few years ago ... :P

I suddenly feel... guilty ! :o

Thank you for your nice message ! There was a time when I really liked running (not running after time, nor after murderers, but running... with my legs ;P). So, the pack update has just been completed, and the difficulty of some levels has been increased. There are undoubtedly backroutes that I will have to correct. But I need more... testers.

I really like "creating" and I always have a lot of ideas, in a lot of sectors. However, creating level packs isn't easy and I will be very happy if you play this one !!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Bye !

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2020, 07:14:22 PM »
I have resolved the levels I've solved so far, but during a mass replay check I noticed that a few levels of the pack share the same level ID --> Replay gets matched to the wrong level.

So far these are the contenders for that:

Fast walk 11:  Marathon_03.nxrp   (5858 frames)
100 metres 8:  Marathon_06.nxrp   (11212 frames)
Morning walk 13:  Marathon_26.nxrp   (5563 frames)

So, for example, Fast walk 11 and  Marathon_03 have the same level ID and the checker tries to solve Fast walk 11 with my replay for Marathon_03.

You can simply change the ID of a level in the editor so that each ID is unique again. This way each replay can correctly be connected to its level. :)

I also attached my Mass Replay check. Will soon continue to play on. :)


Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2020, 09:39:47 PM »
IchoTolot, thanks for the replays !!! ;P You have successfully completed the levels as I originally planned. Well done ! A small clarification however, Morning walk 10 can be achieved with just 3 skills. ;)

Updates :

Similar levels (built with the same tiles) had, for the most part, the same ID. I fixed the problem. Thank you !

I also fixed small issues in a few overly easy levels (and added/removed awkward design elements) :

Morning 1 : Spawn rate increased.
Morning 12 : I recreate this level :laugh:
Morning 15 : Shifting of pickup skills.
Morning 20 : Background changed and disturbing design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).
Morning 24 : Some design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).

Fast walk 17 : Spawn rate increased and one skill changed.

Running 7 : Number of lemmings increased.
Running 11 : Some skills removed.
Running 18 : Backroute (steel added).

100 meters 1 : Some design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).

400 meters 8 : Backroute (steels added).

Bye ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2020, 06:38:56 PM »
More replays! ;)

I resolved morning walk and completed marathon. :)

What came to my eyes:

6 11: I really don't see the need for the timer here.
6 19: Why does it need to be ~20 builders to get up there ??? Most of the level is just building a giant bridge. You can cull most builders with some tweaks. It should need at most 5 builders to get up to the action.
6 20: Do not hide buttons, pick-up skills and traps behind terrain, period. :devil:


From the new levels my favorite was 6 10. :thumbsup:


Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #73 on: December 31, 2020, 09:47:24 AM »
Hi IchoTolot, thank you very much for this feedback !
:thumbsup:

Marathon 11 : Timer deleted ! You're right !
Marathon 12 : (backroute) I change a tile. More lemmings to save. Fewer platformers.
Marathon 18 : (little backroute) Steels added.
Marathon 19 : I understand but I like builders ! :P However, I added a second unlock button and some skills.
Marathon 20 : (little backroute) Steel added.
But... ;) I like the hidden traps since this level is a puzzle to solve. The symbols used in this strange level are Egyptian numbers, and only blocks with a symbol between 20 and 100 (as indicated by the reliquary) contain a key (unlock button) and the blocks on which are drawn the other symbols (animals and objects) must be destroyed in the order indicated by the animations (waves and beetle). The others contain traps… normal, because it’s the curse !!! :evil::devil::scared: I assure you, this is the only level of this kind in my pack ! :laugh:
Marathon 22 : (little backroute) On cloner deleted and two climbers added.

Bye !

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2021, 12:50:08 AM »
More replays. :)

Resolved rank 1+6 and solved rank 2

Comments

2 04: Another unnessesary timer.

2 20: I would make the gaps smaller so that the builder ammount can be brought down. As you might suspect, I am not the biggest fan of builderfests. ;)

My favorites were 2 14 and 2 21. :thumbsup:

6 20:
Nobody knows egyptian numbers and will look those up. You've got 2 most likely scenarios now when people come to this level:

- People will simply play the level in clear physics mode to see the button+trap trigger areas (as I did) and be annoyed with it and in this mode all your custom graphics aren't even shown. Your puzzle is therefore nullified and your custom graphics remain without an effect.
- People will simply skip it as they don't want to deal with hidden stuff.

I would still advice to make the buttons + pick-ups visible, keep the custom graphics around them so that they can still be seen and the level will still play out the same, just without hiding stuff away from the player to mess with them. ;)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2021, 11:12:02 AM »
Thank you IchoTolot for this feedback ! :thumbsup:

2 02 : Slightly more complicated alternative solution.
2 04 : Well done ! This is one of the two solutions intended. I forgot to remove the timer. :D It's done. Thank you !
2 06 : Backroute : I hadn't thought of this funny solution ! Steels added (I have also added the same steels in the level 6 16).
2 07 : Well done ! But little backroute : this alternative solution is no longer valid : I removed the hill and two plateformers.
2 09 : Backroute : now, spawn rate at 99 and reduction of the "bar thin" on which the exit is located.

2 12 : Well done ! Nice alternative solution.
2 14 : Well done ! Very close to the intended solution.
2 16 : Too funny ! ??? :lem-shocked: But it’s a backroute : basher and preplaced lemmings removed.
2 18 : Well done ! This is the solution I had imagined.
2 20 : Ok ! Simplified level. Fewer builders. ;P
2 21 : Well done ! Close to the intended solution.
2 25 : Little backroute ! Now, 19 lemmings must be saved (instead of 18).

6 12 : Backroute : 46 lemmings must be saved (instead of 43), I changed a steel and I removed some skills.
6 20 : From now on, the five unlock buttons are clearly visible, but I wanted to keep the two pickup skills "hidden", because the animated objects (on either side of the closed exit) indicate to dig the block "waves" first and the "scarab" block second. :evil: :smug: :crylaugh:
6 22 : Well done ! :thumbsup:

Bye !

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #76 on: January 03, 2021, 05:09:42 PM »
Even more replays. :)

Resolved rank 2+6 and solved rank 5.

Comments

- It seems like 100 metres 17 and  Marathon_14 still got the same level ID.

- 6 20 is fine now! :thumbsup: Thanks for the alteration!
- 2 06 + 6 16 The fix idea is fine, but I would move the steel more inwards about 5 pixels on each side. Right now it isn't really recognisable as steel as it's grey on grey.

- 5 12 (+ 5 09)  It is a really bad idea to take already existing and well known objects and suddenly give them another function! You can just use your custom Ankh button instead of an edited decoration object. The rule is applicable in general: Do not simply take already existing objects and give them another function that then holds true just in one pack. Otherwise it will be chaos!

- 5 17 + 5 19 + 5 23 You know what I'm about to say here. ;)   Shorten the gaps, reduce the castle by 1 or 2 floors to reduce the builderfests.

My favorites of the rank were: 5 04, 5 11, 5 20 and 5 23! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2021, 10:05:50 AM »
Quote
It seems like 100 metres 17 and  Marathon_14 still got the same level ID.
Problem solved. Thank you !

2 06 + 6 16 : Steels are more visible now ! Thank you !
2 07 : Little backroute : one trap added.

5 02 : Well done ! Close to the intended solution. :thumbsup:
5 04 : Well done ! This is one of the two solutions intended.
5 05 : Little backroute : five builders removed !
5 06 : Beautiful alternative solution ! My solution doesn’t use the digger ! ;P
5 09 : I understand the trouble, because the button is normally a trap, but I don't think it’s a problem if this principe is used sparingly ! Moreover, the trap dragon has its mouth open so the button dragon has its mouth closed. :laugh:
5 12 : Backroute : I added some steels and, ok, I changed the unlock button (Ankh is better !). ;)
5 14 : Little backroute : hole added.
5 17 : There are few levels in my pack using a lot of builders. I understand that bothers you, but I like sometimes playing kind of levels ! :P However, I made some changes in the levels 5 19 and 5 23.
5 18 : Little backroute : stopper and bomber removed.
5 19 : Tower closer to the castle, one tree added and nine fewer builders. :-[ :P
5 20 : Well done ! But this alternative solution doesn’t satisfy me : one steel added.
5 23 : The two islands have been brought closer to reduce the number of builders to use. ;P
5 24 : Little backroute : a third unlock button added.

6 12 : Backroute : one steel added.

Thank you IchoTolot ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2021, 11:29:14 PM »
More replays. :)

Resolved rank 2+5+6 and solved rank 4.

Comments

I appreciate the changes to lower the builder ammount and the one in 5 12! :thumbsup:

4 02 And here I need to nag again about the unnessesarily wide gaps you need to build across. ;)

4 05 was the hardest level of the pack for me so far. The solution I found is quite precise, but still nice. :) It's also one of my favorites :thumbsup: even though if this is intended, a tiny bit more leeway for reaching the upper neutral chamber could be given. ;)

5 15 Remove the timer or reduce the lem count. :devil: It made me ONLY turn up the RR earlier.

4 22 If my solution is not a backroute, I don't the the reason for the timer. I catched the reason in 4 18 though. ;)

4 23 You know exactly what I'm gonna say here. ;P  50 builders is too much when most of the time you just mindlessly build upwards.

More favorites were: 4 06, 4 12, 4 16 and 4 19  :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2021, 02:49:28 PM »
And here is the rest of the pack - or rather the missing rank 3 ;P

Comments

- Morning Walk 25 and Running 4 still have the same level ID. ;)

- 3 05 The timer makes no sense here.

- 3 06 Let's say the timer doesn't make the level better here. Otherwise it's an even simpler bomber turorial though. I would change the level to something better/different here to be honest.

- 3 22 The exit should be made visible here.

My favorites were: 3 03, 3 13 and especially 3 15! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2021, 02:43:50 PM »
Quote
Morning Walk 25 and Running 4 still have the same level ID. ;)
Problem solved. ;)

2 07 : Beautiful alternative solution, fairly close to the intended solution !

3 02 : Backroute : the steel has been moved. One less builder.
3 05 : Time deleted, it was a mistake. Thank you ! :P
3 06 : You are right. I recreate the level !
3 08 : I removed some skills.
3 10 : Little backroute : one block that I reduced.
3 11 : Little backroute : bombers removed.
3 13 : Well done ! But we can use the first basher differently !
3 14 : Backroute : fewer skills, one "owa" and one zombie added.
3 15 : Well done ! Very close to the indended solution !
3 16 : :lem-shocked: Backroute : a precipice added.
3 17 : Little backroute : one pickup skill added.
3 18 : Little backroute : ok ! I just removed one walker and added thirty more lemmings.
3 22 : I like the invisible exit, sometimes. I don't find it embarrassing in this level ! :-[
3 23 : Little backroute : one steel removed.
3 25 : Little backroute : less snow...

4 01 : :lem-mindblown: Backroute : digger removed.
4 02 : I understand :-\ but, I find this level nice ! ;P
4 04 : Well done !
4 05 : Well done ! But the intended solution is a little easier than yours !
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
4 15 : Backroute : in fact, the time limit is useful in this level to avoid backroutes, but unfortunately, I left too much time : 1’15 now ! :P
4 17 : Backroute : a precipice added.
4 21 : Little backroute : I reduced the number of lemmings and removed the entrance.
4 22 : Backroute : two traps added, time removed and one basher replaced by one digger.
4 23 : Level recreated ! ;P
4 24 : Little backroute : steels added.
4 25 : Little backroute : one unclok button added.

5 05 : :lem-shocked: Backroute : steels added.
5 12 : :lem-mindblown: Backroute : one steel added !
5 14 : Little backroute : pickup skill added.
5 18 : Backroute : one block added.

6 12 : :-[ Little backroute : I move one lollipop !

Thank you very much, IchoTolot, for all your replays !!! I really really really appreciate your advice !!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 02:58:43 PM by David »

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #81 on: January 06, 2021, 05:53:50 PM »
I resolved the levels! :)

The recreated levels are much better now! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I still think there are a couple of backroutes left though.

Quote
4 15 : Backroute : in fact, the time limit is useful in this level to avoid backroutes, but unfortunately, I left too much time : 1’15 now !

I don't think the timer is the optimal way to block the backroute though --> see replay.   Maybe a pick-up skill is the more efficient way.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2021, 12:24:34 PM »
3 02 : Little backroute : time limit added. :-[ :P
3 10 : Little backroute : stoppers removed, four traps and disarmer added.
3 14 : Little backroute : arrows added.
3 16 : Backroute : some changes…
3 18 : Little backroute : less lemmings, steels added…

4 15 : Little backroute : pickup skill added. Thanks ! ;P
4 17 : Nice solution ! Well done !
4 22 : I realy like your solution ! :thumbsup:
4 24 : Little backroute : steel added.

5 05 : Little backroute : steels added.
5 18 : Backroute : steels added.

Thank you ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2021, 05:33:35 PM »
And here is the resolve. ;)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2021, 06:56:39 PM »
3 10 : Valid alternative solution. Well done ! But, it's possible to solve this level without using climbers ! ;P
4 24 : Little backroute : one steel added.
5 18 : Valid alternative solution. Well done ! :P

For all other levels, you have made the intended solution, or a solution very close to the intended solution. ;P

Right ! You are very good at solving levels ! I know, my pack wasn't very difficult... :laugh:
Anyway, thanks for those replays ! All this made me progress and learn more (new) tricks... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2021, 09:19:49 PM »
Resolved the level. :)

Your pack has definitly some bite! I would classify it as Medium or Medium-Hard.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2021, 09:53:40 PM »
Perfect !

Medium / Medium-Hard : that's what I thought !!! ;P

I have attached my solution for level 4 05, the level you found so difficult !
That's right, it's not easy ! And the access to the upper neutral chamber is voluntarily complicated. :laugh:

Thank you again IchoTolot ! :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2021, 10:12:01 AM »
I actually forgot one comment:   

- 4 07: You have to assign every lemming a swimmer here before he drops into the water. Why not make the hatch spawn pre-assigned swimmers so you don't have to do it all manually 20 times? ???


Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2021, 01:33:15 PM »
It's true ! Thank you ! I fixed this little "problem" ! ;P

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2021, 05:57:02 AM »
Hi David, I just noticed Icho will be putting your pack on Youtube. Also didn't realize you changed 4-24(blue lagoon). So I solved it but backrouted it . I didn't even get the climber pickup.

here is the replay


Also I put it on Youtube (backroute 4-24, blue lagoon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvFEGGeJQr0
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 06:32:49 AM by ericderkovits »

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2021, 01:16:08 PM »
Hello ericderkovits,

Thanks for these informations !
For level Blue lagoon : well done ! I like very much your solution, it's still quite difficult, and for me, it's not really a backroute. It's a nice alternative solution, even if you haven't used the pickup climber !!! So, for the moment, I don't think I will make any changes to this level... :thumbsup:

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2021, 09:40:36 PM »
Yes, the videos of my solutions will start to appear in a few days. If I remember, I will link the first one here. ;)

Offline IchoTolot

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3612
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #92 on: February 01, 2021, 03:30:44 PM »
I just want to bring your attention to my post here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5393.msg89831#msg89831

With the next update a bug in the swimmer behavior is being fixed and this will cause Morning walk 25 to become impossible.

This is an easy fix though which you can already prepare for if you want.

This is the problem: Level accidentally uses the 4 pixel threshold so that a climber now dives. (Wall right of the exit cave)

Solution: Extend that straight wall the climber shall use to climb out of the water a few more pixels into the water.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2021, 11:43:31 AM »
Thank you IchoTolot ! Problem corrected ! :thumbsup:

Offline LJLPM

  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #94 on: February 07, 2021, 01:12:20 PM »
In "The lemmings Have Grown [Morning walk 05]", level's title is "Chimie de Laboratoire" : is it intended, since "Laboratoire de Chimie" (Chemistry Laboratory) is more commonly used.

I follow Icho's daily videos, and there are nice levels, indeed! Great job!! :)

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #95 on: February 08, 2021, 02:43:13 PM »
Hello LJLPM !

Yes, but the two expressions do not mean the same thing. ;P

"Chimie de laboratoire" refers to the chemistry practiced in laboratories. It is also, in France, a school disclipline in the universities.

However, of course, level's title could also have been "Laboratoire de Chimie" (Chemistry Laboratory) ! 8-) :thumbsup:

Quote
I follow Icho's daily videos, and there are nice levels, indeed! Great job!! :)

Cool ! Thank you ! But... wouldn't you rather play the levels than watch them ? ;) :lem-shocked:

Offline LJLPM

  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2021, 11:00:01 PM »
- ok! Thank you for the explanation :)
- unfortunately, atm, I don't have free time to play Lemmings (or other video games)... :(

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #97 on: March 16, 2021, 08:49:35 PM »
Hi David,

I just started playing through this pack. I have finished the Morning Walk rank, so I'm here to post my replays/feedback.

Also as promised here is the link to my LP of the pack: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJvLCF_p3iaXmqlEdEIdh5oN. Enjoy! :P

Just as a heads-up, I ran into Morning Walk 25 where it was impossible, but as it turns out I had an outdated version of the pack. This could had only happened where I downloaded the pack a really long time ago, and I must had forgotten to download the latest version before LPing the pack. Because I was up to Morning Walk 25 when I realized I had the impossible version due to the swimmer physics change, unfortunately 3 of my replays broke: Morning Walk 1, 12, and 15.

As a result, I was in a dilemma. I was wondering how I was going to go about with the LP. Like, should I simply record me solving each level individually and then reupload the videos with them merged, or should I tack it on the most recent LP video? In the end, I think I decided that since it's only 3 levels that I would simply just upload my solutions to them on this level pack topic.

In this case, Morning Walk 1 is the exact same solution as you see in the LP, while Morning Walk 12 is very different and definitely a lot harder than the version you see in the LP, and finally Morning Walk 15 is almost the same solution as the one you see in the LP, just the timing of the builders is different, as well as the need to fiddle with the RR.

So, in the file attachment, I attached the resolved versions of those 3 levels. Maybe what I'll do as well is simply show off the solutions to these 3 Morning Walk levels when I get to the end of the LP. Still, the old versions of them are there for you to watch even though the only one that's really different is Morning Walk 12.

General Remarks on the Pack So Far

First off, a lot of your levels are very nicely designed! :thumbsup: You certainly have a very keen, sharp artistic sense to your level designing. Indeed, I liked what I saw in the preview images on page 1 of this topic, and I was certainly amazed at how great they are to look at when I was playing through the pack. Nice job there. Some of my favorites visually were Morning Walk 1, 3 (Agrabah palace background), 9, 10, 15 (that rotating galaxy animation is cool!), 22, and 24. I think I also recognize some of the terrain on MW 25 to be from Freddi Fish's Maze Madness, so it seems that you're a fan of the Humongous Entertainment games? I too grew up with them.

Second, these are quite difficult for first rank levels. I was expecting levels that most won't have any trouble with that you usually find with the first ranks of many packs based on the Easy-Hard difficulty tag in the title. However, after playing and struggling through the first 5 levels to varying degrees, this is so not an Easy-Hard pack. Thus, I'm in complete agreement with Icho that Medium-Hard describes the difficulty of the pack more accurately. It's no fault of your own, though. You can take it from the long-time forumers here in that they will tell you that judging the difficulty of one's own work is very hard to do, especially since difficulty is quite subjective.

So, you might want to edit the topic title in the OP to reflect that. Simply go to the very first post, click "modify," and then edit the title to change the difficulty tag.

Now feedback on some of the levels themselves

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To be truthful, I was quite annoyed at how I was constantly getting stumped, although it's more due to how hard levels just kept showing up after one another, that I'm not used to getting stumped a lot, and that I was cranky from not enough sleep. Don't get me wrong, these are great levels and quite satisfying to figure out. Not to mention a lot of these levels are great to look at, so they can be admired for their artistic quality in addition to most being great puzzles themselves :thumbsup:

However, I did the first 5 Fast Walk levels in the most recent LPs as well, and I definitely noticed they're much easier than the corresponding Morning Walk levels. That definitely got me enjoying the pack like I hope I would, as I breezed through them quickly. Fast Walk 2 and Fast Walk 5 both took me some time, but they were still somewhat fairly quick in figuring out.

Just to let you know you can certainly fix up any levels in the meantime while my LP is in progress, but I generally don't bother going back to resolve any levels that might had changed in the meantime. I simply carry on with the pack on the latest version that I have downloaded until I finish the pack, as any levels that change are simply ones that I have already solved and hence doesn't impact any of the levels that I haven't gotten to or played yet.

I'm looking forward to playing more of the pack! Definitely enjoying the pack. Thanks for this awesome level pack! Keep up the great work ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2021, 09:58:00 AM »
Fast Walk rank finished, so I'm back with more replays/feedback. In contrast to the Morning Walk rank, nearly the entire Fast Walk felt like a breather rank, as it was a lot easier than the Morning Walk rank. Thus, I definitely started enjoying the pack way more, especially since the levels continue to be great both in visual and puzzle quality. In particular, there are two videos where I had 11 and 7 levels solved. You definitely remind me of Gronkling, another forum member who recently released a mini pack, where pretty much the thing about your levels is they're small and very short. They are sometimes easy, but most of the time they tend to be difficult, especially if done right. In Gronkling's pack, nearly all the 20 levels were deceivingly tough, especially in the Hard rank. Your levels tend to be deceivingly difficult as well, although that's definitely more true with the Morning Walk levels than the Fast Walk ones. There were only a few hard ones here, but in general the levels in the rank were quick solves.

Now for feedback on some of the Fast Walk levels:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once again, nice job with these levels, and I'm definitely looking forward to playing more of the pack soon! So far, I've only solved the first Running level on camera and got stumped on the second. I will come back later on after a good night's rest.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
kaywhyn : I am very happy with your feedback on my work, especially because it's very detailed. ;) Initially, the levels in this pack were a bit easier and and some of them were lacking in interest. Thanks to IchoTolot, in particular, I reworked a lot of levels, which means that the difficulty is quite random : therefore, we will find levels of rank 4 easier than some levels of rank 1, but overall the difficulty increases gradually. However, I do realize that rank 2 is easier than rank 1. Damn ! :forehead: And I just corrected the title : "Medium-Hard" is righter, I agree !

Thank you for noting the care I take with the sets ;P, I am very sensitive to design and the artistic aspect in general, even if this isn’t what interests me primarily when I play a level pack. Like many players, I think it's the puzzle-solving that interests me the most ! :eyeroll:

For most of the levels, you have found the intended solution or a very close to the one intended !

Some feedback :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thank you very much kaywhyn (in French scrabble, your nickname counts for 46 points !!!) ! :crylaugh: :thumbsup:

I'll watch your LP later ! :P

Bye !

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #100 on: March 18, 2021, 09:23:10 PM »
Running rank completed. Replays attached. Back to being difficult again, after an easy second rank. Nearly this entire rank was a huge and long struggle. There was still the occasional LP video where I was able to solve several levels, but for the most part solving times slowed to a crawl again in this rank.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Morning walk 8 : The button is actually a closed eye that opens… :):lem-mindblown: but, I agree, it looks like an envelope... :crylaugh:

Fascinating :crylaugh:

Quote
Okay ! I don't know the version of bsmith ! :-[

No worries. It's a level pack found in the v10 or older board.

Quote
Sorry again : I don't know "The Great Lemming Caper" ! I spent all my childhood in Agrabah, I cannot know everything... :lemcat: I have Jasmine's number - and Aladdin's number too - if you're interested ! ?????????:lix-evil::forehead:

Unless you're joking and messing around here, I'm not sure what you mean by Jasmine's and Aladdin's number ??? And don't worry about me mentioning these are worthless repeats of levels from the OL. I simply consider any repeat worthless if the solution isn't that much different from the one that a player might use on the difficult repeat version of the level. That's just my thought on repeat levels, though :P

Quote
Thank you very much kaywhyn (in French scrabble, your nickname counts for 46 points !!!) ! :crylaugh: :thumbsup:

Ah, that's really cool! :laugh: My nickname is apparently very valuable in the French version of scrabble. In the USA's version, it's only worth about half the number of points that it is in the French version. Now if only it was an acceptable word in the game :crylaugh:

I've also noticed that you tend to overuse exclamation marks. Unless you're absolutely trying to convey strong emotions/feelings, it's standard to use periods to end sentences instead. You're not the only forumer I noticed doing this, though. I told another member he was doing the same and since then he has used periods rather than exclamation marks for every sentence ;)


Halfway through the pack already! :lem-shocked: I continue to enjoy the pack both for the visuals and the puzzles, so I'm looking forward to playing more. So far had an attempt at the first 100 Metres level, but I just realized an idea that might work, so I will try it out on it soon :crylaugh:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #101 on: March 18, 2021, 11:56:14 PM »
kaywhyn : I watched your LPs with pleasure and really enjoyed following the flow of your thinking, you are very patient and you take a really good look at things. I also like the fact that you are not using "CPM" (grayed out mode). ;)

To answer your questions :

 - Z is the first letter of my maternal grandmother's birth surname. ;P

 - The Lemmigns have grown : why ? For 30 years, they have evolved, they have more skills, so they have become real warriors ! :lemcat:

You mentioned the Dolly Dimple in several levels, and I was wondering what that means ? ???

Quote
Unless you're joking and messing around here, I'm not sure what you mean by Jasmine's and Aladdin's number
I was joking, but maybe it’s more like "phone number" in english ???

Quote
I simply consider any repeat worthless if the solution isn't that much different from the one that a player might use on the difficult repeat version of the level. That's just my thought on repeat levels, though
I understand very well ; and it's nice to let me know.

Quote
I've also noticed that you tend to overuse exclamation marks. Unless you're absolutely trying to convey strong emotions/feelings
Yes, that's right, I'll try to calm down a bit !!!!!! :lemcat::lemcat:

A few comments :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, I decided to update my pack after you finish it : I'm just going to fix some backroutes.

Quote
Halfway through the pack already!   I continue to enjoy the pack both for the visuals and the puzzles, so I'm looking forward to playing more. So far had an attempt at the first 100 Metres level, but I just realized an idea that might work, so I will try it out on it soon 
Thank you very much ! The first 100 metres level is not difficult ! You just gotta find the trick (or the tricks). ;P
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 12:11:03 PM by David »

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2021, 08:59:07 AM »
100 Metres rank complete, so more replays and feedback. Same story as the Running rank, where there were plenty of difficult levels in this rank and hence solving times were quite slow as well. Still, I continue to enjoy the pack and there were still plenty of great levels in the rank :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

kaywhyn : I watched your LPs with pleasure and really enjoyed following the flow of your thinking, you are very patient and you take a really good look at things. I also like the fact that you are not using "CPM" (grayed out mode). ;)

To answer your questions :

 - Z is the first letter of my maternal grandmother's birth surname. ;P

 - The Lemmigns have grown : why ? For 30 years, they have evolved, they have more skills, so they have become real warriors ! :lemcat:

I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying my LP very much. Indeed, this community seems to like them very much, as it's fun to hear the player/solver thinking out loud how to go about solving a level, as well as his/her thoughts on the levels themselves.

Quote

You mentioned the Dolly Dimple in several levels, and I was wondering what that means ? ???

If you're familiar with Crazy 2 - Dolly Dimple from ONML, you'll know why :P It refers to building in such a way so that only one lemming faces the opposite way from the rest of the crowd.

Quote
Quote
Unless you're joking and messing around here, I'm not sure what you mean by Jasmine's and Aladdin's number
I was joking, but maybe it’s more like "phone number" in english ???

Ah, yea, pretty much like "phone number" in English ;)

Quote
So, I decided to update my pack after you finish it : I'm just going to fix some backroutes.

That's a good idea. I figured you were going to wait until I have finshed the LP of the pack. Seems most of the level pack authors generally wait until I'm done LPing the pack instaed of update any chance they get to whenever I post feedback/replays. In this way, you won't have to release a lot of updates shortly after one another every time and can simply prepare a huge update for the pack.


4 ranks down, two more to go! So far, only had a look at the first level of the 400 Metres rank. I decided to throw that in in my most recent LP video because Tinker Bell is one of many of my favorite Disney characters ;) I will post here again when I finish the 400 Metres rank :) Looking forward to reading your feedback on the 100 Metres rank.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2021, 08:46:56 PM »
Thanks kaywhyn for the explanation on the Dolly Dimple, I must have played it, but I can't remember. In fact, I played more of the Original and Christmas Lemmings. :P

So, if you're interested, I have attached my replays (of the intended solutions) for some levels, especially those where you found a more complicated or very different solution. :D

My feedback :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For now, I’m happy because I’m not seeing a lot of backroutes. However, sometimes you find solutions that are much more complicated than what I imagined. But, on the whole, your (re)solutions sound like I had imagined. I looking forward to watching the rest (in replay and LP). Thank you ! ;P

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #104 on: March 22, 2021, 10:28:37 AM »
400 Metres rank completely solved. Replays attached and of course more feedback. More hard levels here, but still very much enjoying this great pack of yours ;) Definitely slow going at first but progress sped up somewhat in the middle of the rank, and then slowed again somewhat near the end.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All rightie, 1 more rank to go! :) So far, I've only done the first two levels of the Marathon rank, and I got to say with the first one that's so cool how you pretty much remade a level from the Prince of Persia game into a Lemmings level. I haven't played the game myself, but I've seen Youtube videos of a playthrough of it sometime ago. So, 24 levels left to solve. I'll probably be through the rest of the pack in about a day or two. Almost done! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #105 on: March 22, 2021, 05:48:54 PM »
Thanks kaywhyn : for most of the levels, you found the solution intended. :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #106 on: March 23, 2021, 10:34:54 PM »
Marathon rank completed, and thus the entire pack is solved. My entire replay collection for the pack is attached ;) Honestly, the Marathon levels were kind of a middle ground for difficulty, as some I found quite easy, others hard. I was definitely worried when you said that some of them are quite hard, but some of the hardest ones weren't that bad.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

400 metres 23 : Ah ! I just fixed the "false steel" issue for the next update.

Oh yes, thanks for this, as I wanted to remind you in the feedback, but it's clear that you've already seen my LP. I found it super odd, especially since I haven't seen any case where the steel can be destroyed in New Formats NL.

Quote
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ah, yes, good point! ;)


Overall, excellent work with the pack, especially with many of the designs! :thumbsup: It's very clear that you put in a lot of effort to make the levels very visually appealing, and you certainly have a very high taste in artistic quality. It was quite satisfying from start to finish figuring out all the various challenges throughout the pack, and I've enjoyed it a lot. I certainly had my moments of being a dummy on many of the levels, but ah those eureka moments on many hard levels were a great feeling. Of course, I think you have seen that I have solved not only a lot of level packs, but also some of the hardest difficult level packs, including United, Lemmings Plus Alpha, SEB Lems, and Lemmings Open Air.

Have fun fixing the backroutes, and I definitely look forward to more content from you if you decide to make more levels or another level pack :thumbsup: Keep up the great work.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 10:40:44 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2021, 08:59:33 PM »
Thanks kaywhyn, I'm glad you liked this pack (though, I'm sorry to have exhausted you ! :laugh:), I really like following your reasoning in LP, I find you very patient and very talented, you know how to solve complicated problems quickly, even if, sometimes, you get stuck on "simple" problems ;P. Well done ! I'm appreciative ! :thumbsup:

My feedback on the Marathon rank :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

***

So, I decided to do a lot of small updates. It must be said that I have two bad habits :
1) When a skill is used a lot in a level, I very often round up to a higher number divisible by 5. For example, I will put 20 builders while the resolution of the level only requires 17. :forehead:
2) I often add unnecessary skills, but I realize that players use them to solve levels more easily (backroutes !). :-[

In this pack, the levels using OL's designs were created a long time ago ; therefore, some of this puzzles aren’t very interesting ! Also, there’re some levels that I had to transform because they used rising water and radiation/glaciation ; these changes weren't easy to make.

Here are the fixes made in the new update :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2021, 09:55:22 PM »
Glad you enjoyed my LP of your pack, David! :thumbsup: I apologize for the extremely long lengths of many of the videos, though. I'm one of those people where I if I'm on a roll with solving several levels in a row, I generally keep the momentum going. However, this has the drawback in that I would be doing good on time, decide to tackle another, only to find that I'm on a level that manages to give me a hard time. Quite often, it's difficult to tell if a level is going to be difficult just based on the preview screen.

Also thank you for the replays. Indeed, your solutions on the 3 levels you attached are so much easier than mine :XD: Many of your levels may be small, but they're deceptively difficult for the most part. Plenty of them had me going, "I'm a skill short" :laugh:


Thanks kaywhyn, I'm glad you liked this pack (though, I'm sorry to have exhausted you ! :laugh:), I really like following your reasoning in LP, I find you very patient and very talented, you know how to solve complicated problems quickly, even if, sometimes, you get stuck on "simple" problems ;P. Well done ! I'm appreciative ! :thumbsup:

Don't be, it's not your fault :P It's just that I've been playing so many difficult packs/levels lately and been recording a lot of LP videos of me solving that I generally burn myself out, when I've told myself that I could definitely take it slower on the uploading of videos and also take my time with going through a level pack. If anything, these levels were a good kind of challenging, and I love a good challenge with the many difficult levels in this pack ;)

Thanks for the compliments! :thumbsup: Indeed, you'll be amazed at how even the simplest of things can sometimes go over one's head and unnoticed for a while and when you finally do realize the linchpin that can help you solve a level, then as a solver you wonder why you didn't "see" it before/earlier. I was a dummy on so many of the levels here, but hey, there'll always be levels like that when one is solving :laugh: Again, I think the big reason why I was able to get through your pack is simply due to all the training/experience I've gained from playing and solving so many level packs, including some of the hardest ones currently available. I also like to think that I've always had this natural puzzle solving mentality, especially since I first played Lemmings when I was maybe around 6 or 7. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #109 on: September 28, 2023, 05:27:40 PM »
Don't know if David is still active in the forums, but since I'm playing through the pack right know, here are my comments.

First some generals remarks: I can honestly say that I hardly played through a pack that is visually as appealing as your pack is. "Art Lems" comes to mind, "Lemmings World Tour" has its moments as well, but "The lemmings have grown" definitely plays in the same league. I must confess that I always priorize  puzzle quality over visual quality - but it's never a bad thing when the latter is great, too. Having said this, the puzzles are really good as well. I say this with caution as I'm only at the beginning of the third rank so far. I like that you play the entire keyboard of possibilities. I often associate specific tricks with specific level-authors as they make use of these tricks frequently. At this point of time, I can't say that about you - because of the variety. It can be noticed, however, that your pack is pretty hard from the beginning. I'm not so sure how the difficulty-curve will develop, though. I felt that the second rank was slightly easier compared to the first one. The only thing I don't like is the absence of custom music and the presence of the standard rotation. I know I could simply download a custom music pack. But there's one rule I follow: I always play a pack with the intended music, that's a question of respect to the designer for me.

Now we go into detail:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All my solutions can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/@Swerdis



« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 11:28:57 AM by Swerdis »

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #110 on: September 30, 2023, 09:50:42 AM »
When I created my last post, I had already played through the next rank - so here is my assessment. As I stated, I found "Fast Walk" to be a tad easier compared to the first rank.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All my solutions can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/@Swerdis
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 11:40:38 AM by Swerdis »

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #111 on: September 30, 2023, 10:06:24 AM »
And we move on to the third rank.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 11:45:12 AM by Swerdis »

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #112 on: October 09, 2023, 11:46:52 PM »
@Swerdis

I'm just posting to let you know that Running 12 in its current form is possible. I wasn't even aware that the level was changed since the time I LPed the pack. Like you, I was nearly convinced it wasn't possible with just half the amount of builder pickups because I felt like I needed at least two extra builders, but no, it is solvable but just barely. At least in my solution, it requires a lot of precision. So, rest assured David didn't make a mistake for the level, though honestly I would provide a couple of extra builders, as they don't seem to break or cheese the level in any way.

Also I know you don't want any since you're that kind of solver like me, but I'll spoiler tag the hints just in case. They're major ones so proceed with caution.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #113 on: October 18, 2023, 08:48:56 PM »
Thanks for your help. Still couldn't solve the level, but I skipped it for the moment. Next problem: I can't play Running 16 cause it seems like some pieces are missing. That's strange since I downloaded the "davidz styles" file before I started the pack. And I did it again, but it changed nothing. Some advice?

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #114 on: October 18, 2023, 11:23:00 PM »
@Swerdis

Hey Swerdis, no problem at all. Running 12 is quite a toughie now. Still not spoilery, but the spoiler tag simply tells you how many builders to use on both sides, so opening it will reveal the exact numbers, nothing else. Meaning, it doesn't say how it should be done. There's one more hint after that, but it relates to the buttons. For that one, it reveals specifically which one to go for first, but I think you managed to deduce which one it must be.

As for Running 16, check your PMs, I sent you the missing files.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 11:28:06 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2023, 05:35:18 AM »
Solved Running 12

Don't like the level, too precise

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #116 on: November 04, 2023, 02:17:34 PM »
Started the 4th rank today, so this will be completed over time.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 07:05:42 PM by Swerdis »

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #117 on: November 29, 2023, 11:07:38 PM »
Now that we crossed the finish line in what was the slowest 100 meters in my life, we just left the starting block of the 400-meter-race.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 07:36:31 PM by Swerdis »

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #118 on: December 21, 2023, 07:50:37 PM »
I finished the 400-meter-race and decided to run a marathon. Progress will be slow, I'm afraid, though I try my best.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 11:49:14 PM by Swerdis »

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #119 on: January 11, 2024, 03:03:43 AM »
Hello Swerdis,
I just saw all your posts today.
And I see kaywhyn helped you and kindly answered your questions. I thank him for that. ;)
As for me, I will respond to you in a few days, time to look at your solutions.
Thank you for your interest in my level pack. 8-)

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #120 on: January 11, 2024, 06:01:34 AM »
Hi David,

Welcome back! :thumbsup: Yea, Swerdis was having a problem with loading Running 16, but I was able to help him resolve the issue. Even then, you might want to take a look at it, as it appears that Gigalem made an update to the fortune tileset long after you released the pack used on that level so that the giant exit you used is not included anymore but instead a way smaller version of it. That way future players won't have a problem with the level not loading because of missing objects.

Also, I've been watching Swerdis' journey through the pack and as usual I'm very impressed with his progress and many of the solutions he has found to your levels. As of now, he is now halfway through the final rank of the pack and so it likely won't be too long now until he finishes up the rest of your pack :thumbsup: I know he will be overjoyed to hear from you again too! :)

In addition, I very much enjoy reading Swerdis' feedback and it's nice to see that we agree on so many things :laugh: We have come to an agreement on a couple of things, in particular, two levels that are too difficult for their position and therefore think they can be moved to a later position in the rank:

- Morning Walk 2: It's only the second level of the pack, and it's not good to have a roadblock this early in the pack IMO, because it increases the chances of a rage quit from players and they therefore stop playing the pack altogether and hence miss out on some of the many great levels beyond it. Before I read that Swerdis also struggled with this level, I thought I was simply being a big dummy here, but nope, we agree here the level's too hard for its position. Needless to say, early roadblocks are not good for any level pack!

- Running 12: Definitely way too hard for its position now with half the number of builders that were in my version when I LPed the pack from about 3 years ago. At some point, I saw that Swerdis didn't include this level in his feedback and so I decided to inquire about it. It turns out that Swerdis thought the level wasn't possible, so I decided to take a look at the level myself, and I nearly thought the same as well, but I was able to get it solved and therefore confirm to him that you didn't make a mistake here. If you want my honest opinion, a few extra builders would probably be a good change, as I don't see them breaking the level in any way. Otherwise, consider moving the level to a later position in the rank, as in its current form it is way too difficult for its position.

Other than the issue with Running 16 and the two levels mentioned above being too difficult for their position, this is it for now. Perhaps Swerdis can look into what they can swap places with, since he's currently going through the pack and it's been a while since I last looked at the pack with fresh eyes, meaning I don't remember the levels as well as he does. Once he gives his input, I can probably say whether I agree with them before you make the change for the next update :)   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #121 on: January 11, 2024, 03:15:45 PM »
Hi kaywhyn,

Thank you for these explanations. When Swerdis finishes the pack, I will update my level pack.

Morning 2 : I agree, this level is way too difficult (and it's not visually pleasing :laugh:), so I'm thinking of swapping it for Running 4 (which is too easy) ! What do you think about it ?

Running 12 : I will give some additional explanations in my answers to Swerdis, but indeed, I am thinking of adding additional builders (good idea !) or changing the level completely...

I will also fix some backroutes, particularly in Fast walk 12 and Fast walk 22.

Either way, I really enjoy reading Swerdis' feedback, as much as I enjoyed yours, kaywhyn. ;)

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #122 on: January 11, 2024, 08:01:02 PM »
Hello David,

welcome to the forum back again. I really have fun playing your pack. It's visually great and there are lot of great-puzzles here. My favourite is still Marathon 10. I'm really looking forward to your feedback.

Regarding Morning Walk, 2 I think this one could well be swapped with Running 4 as I found the latter a very easy one which wouldn't be misplaced as the second level of the entire pack.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 08:21:16 PM by Swerdis »

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2024, 03:58:21 PM »
Quote
I really have fun playing your pack. It's visually great and there are lot of great-puzzles here. My favourite is still Marathon 10. I'm really looking forward to your feedback.

Thanks Swerdis, it makes me happy ! ;P

As this is my first (and only) pack, I made a lot of corrections following feedback from Gronkling, IchoTolot and kaywhyn. That’s why the level pack is quite uneven, not homogeneous enough : some levels in the first ranks are really difficult, and vice versa. In addition, the puzzles are very different : some levels are not very interesting (with a lot of builders, sometimes) and others have “far-fetched” solutions. Finally, a certain number of levels used features that disappeared (rising water, explode/freeze after 10 seconds), so I had to readjust them at the last moment. I will come back to this on a case by case basis.

Finally, I didn't know that you could use custom music when creating a level pack. In fact, it has already taken me a long time to understand the vocabulary associated with the Lemmings play (backroute, red harring etc.), to understand how a forum works (I'm not very good at computers !) or to understand how to create a level pack and make it available for download. So...

I made some slight modifications in 3 levels (I will update the pack when you finish everything, Swerdis ! :thumbsup:) :
- Uranus World !!! (Fast walk 12) : I removed the side towers.
- Petits ponts (100 metres 15) : I reset the timer to 1 min 15.
- Bonbons (400 metres 21) : I added a platform to avoid going to the left.

And I swapped places four levels :
- Banlieue in London (Morning world 2) <---> Le lac (Running 4)
- Scenario de film d’horreur (Running 12) <---> Une houleuse aventure (Marathon 7)

You can download my replays of the levels that gave you problems (don't hesitate to ask me if you want my solution to a level) : replays

Here are my feedbacks (I won't go over the easy levels and those for which you found the expected solution) :

Morning walk (click to show/hide)

Fast walk (click to show/hide)

Running (click to show/hide)

100 metres (click to show/hide)

400 metres (click to show/hide)

Marathon (click to show/hide)

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #124 on: January 13, 2024, 10:14:15 PM »
Hi David,

thank you very much for your detailed feedback. This will take me a while to go through your intended solutions. In most cases I compared mine with those of Kaywhyn and Icho, but it will be pretty interesting to see what you really had in mind. Speaking about difficulty, I have no problems at all with breathers here and there as long as the general progress is intact. And that's true in your pack basically. There are some exceptions as we already noted, but we shouldn't exaggerate. In the end we give just recommendations - it's your pack and you can do whatever you want. And I like it. I said on a different occasion that I prefer custom music over the original tunes in the meantime. But again, this is my personal taste and you even didn't know about custom music when you created the pack.

Personally, I only ever created single levels, but never an entire pack. I'm too lazy and I'm more of a puzzle-solver than a creator, so I'm always happy that there are so many people here that provide fresh content. Also I rarely participate in discussions for I am - just like you - not a native English speaker (I'm German) which makes it harder for me to understand everything in detail.

By for now, Swerdis.

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #125 on: January 19, 2024, 04:48:05 PM »
Thank you Swerdis for your explanations. Generally speaking, I tried to classify the levels by increasing difficulty, but I ran into two pitfalls :
  - On the one hand, you will agree, the difficulty (of a level) is a fairly subjective notion ;
  - On the other hand, as I corrected many levels after advice and comments from Gronkling, Icho and kaywhyn, some levels "became" much easier or much more difficult than they were initially.

As for music, I don't know where to find custom music to accompany a level pack. I don't know if I'm allowed to use music from other level packs. If anyone can explain it to me, thanks in advance ! ;)

Swerdis, you may be too lazy to create levels, but you are very good at solving them ! :thumbsup:
Anyway, I really appreciate your feedback.

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #126 on: January 21, 2024, 01:19:27 AM »
@David, @Swerdis

Hi gentlemen,

Always great to hear from the both of you. About this:

Morning 2 : I agree, this level is way too difficult (and it's not visually pleasing :laugh:), so I'm thinking of swapping it for Running 4 (which is too easy) ! What do you think about it ?

I agree, although I'm not certain if Morning Walk 2 needs to move that far down the pack. What I was thinking is near the end of the Morning Walk rank, though if there isn't a suitable level from that area to swap with it, then sure, this can do. The only thing about Running 4 is that the wide water pit might be intimidating for players if it's that early in the pack, but other than that intimidating factor, yea, it is an easy level.

Also @David, I have played some of Swerdis' single levels and I must say they're great, even if some of them are currently backroutable. I especially like his huge Brick builderless level, which IIRC Swerdis got inspired from namida's Lemmings Plus I or Lemmings Plus II pack. In other words, I recommend you give Swerdis' levels a try if you fancy a nice challenge! :laugh:

Like Swerdis though, I'm more of a level solver than a level designer. Most of the levels I've made so far are contest levels, plus a single level that I released in the Random Level Sharing topic, which is my very first Fire level.

Anyway, @Swerdis just informed me that Marathon 18 doesn't load for him because of missing pieces. So, I'm going to attach the style the level uses and see if that fixes the problem. Just extract to the "styles" folder. Let me know if it helps or not, and if the latter David or I will investigate. 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 10:31:17 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

  • Posts: 913
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #127 on: January 22, 2024, 09:18:23 PM »
The missing piece is the new left-facing fields. Gigalem changed them from force_left and force_right to owfleft_dreadnought and owfright_dreadnought (looks slightly different but acts the same). This particular level has 2 left-facing ones in it. So here is the fixed level

Edit: These are the new ones. Kaywhyn just added the old ones if you still want those for that level. see above post. Also I've added the old ones to gigalem_dread style folder. so now I have both in that folder.

Note: Also Gigalem added several new objects that are not included in the above post styles (ie anti-splat pads)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 11:57:08 PM by ericderkovits »

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #128 on: January 22, 2024, 10:35:09 PM »
@Swerdis

Ah, apologies for that, but I sent you an updated version of the style. I should had checked that the level didn't load for me as well, though I could had sworn it did :forehead: I've reattached the correct one (see two posts above). Same instructions as before.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #129 on: January 24, 2024, 03:48:53 PM »
Thank you kaywhyn for your review. Since Morning 2 is a fairly difficult level and Running 4 is rather easy, I thought it would be interesting to swap the two levels for "sleek” (I don't know if that's the right word, in English :-\) the difficulty of my pack. It saves me from making too many changes.

I will take a look at the Swerdis levels, and in particular at Brick Builderless, I have no doubt that he is a good creator, despite what he says (I have already watched his Utube channel!). For my part, I like solving levels, but I prefer designing. However, solving other players' levels gives a lot of ideas for creating our own levels.

Finally, I fixed the Marathon 18 issue (I will update my pack when Swerdis finishes the pack). Thanks to both of you, kaywhyn and ericderkovits, for your comments. :thumbsup:

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #130 on: January 28, 2024, 07:52:24 PM »
Hi David,

thanks. Yeah I make small progress at the moment. As you know I had skipped Marathon 18 due to the problems with the single file, but I could solve it today. Wasn't that bad though at the first glance this level looked really intimidating for me. But this was nothing compared to Marathon 22. You had reduced the number of builders to 17 here, and I'm still stuck - short of 1 bridge all the time. But I'm continuously working on it.

This builderless level Kaywhyn mentioned is actually quite easy - because it's meant to be open-ended. I've got a feeling I should go back to the drawing board soon, making new levels. Got lots of inspirations by you and other designers ;)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 08:03:21 PM by Swerdis »

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #131 on: January 28, 2024, 09:21:21 PM »
@David
Quote
As for music, I don't know where to find custom music to accompany a level pack. I don't know if I'm allowed to use music from other level packs. If anyone can explain it to me, thanks in advance ! ;)

Yup, it's perfectly fine to use tracks from other level packs, if the author has used custom music and supplied a download link :)

Two websites that were recommended to me for music thanks to Nessy :thumbsup:

-  Video game music - https://downloads.khinsider.com/

-  Zophar's Domain - https://www.zophar.net/music

Also you can get some from the Mod Archive:

https://modarchive.org/


@Swerdis

Let me know if you have any levels that I can test for you. I know you asked me a while back and I gently turned down the offer because I want to do a live LP of the pack, if it ever gets done, but I can always do a commentary video series on it and let the replays show my solutions instead ;) I'm finding that I just don't have the energy like I used to to LP every level pack there is.

As for your progress with David's pack, something tells me that you might be able to finish up the rest of it today, seeing how you succeeded in getting through Marathon 22. Great job! :thumbsup: Interesting how it's different from how I resolved it, especially near the exit area. Replay attached which you might find useful for learning a trick ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #132 on: January 29, 2024, 12:15:44 AM »
Swerdis : My feedback on the last levels you have completed :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

kaywhyn : Thank you very much for the links and advice. I will look. Indeed, I'm thinking of offering a new (small) level pack soon. ;)
An then, question I also ask Swerdis, where can I download Brick Builderless level ?

Offline Turrican

  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #133 on: January 29, 2024, 04:00:05 AM »
Hi David! I have seen the discussion about custom music. I am one of the creators, that prefer to use custom music , instead of the original tracks , for both my works ( custom levels , and level conversions of custom levels between various lemmings engines ) , and for my youtube videos.

Before I started making packs for Lemmings , I used to release my works as single levels (and I still release them in that form too). So I used modarchive for their music tracks , because it made it easy for me to provide a soundtrack (I did put a link of the track each time) , and the players would have music tracks , that would listen to,  probably for the first time.

So , I've decided to post here links , for the threads that I have posted my works , so you can listen to the tracks that I've used , and download them if you like them (modarchive has a feacture, that allows to listen to a track before you download it) , and if you would like to use them for your works.

Here are links for the threads , that contain my works :

Levels by Turrican thread : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4734.0

Turrican's Supelemmini projects : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5113.0

Lemmix level pack topic (you will find my works , on pages 20 and 21) : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=943.0

Turrican's Lemmix projects : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5958.0


My Youtube channel ( Turrican Lemm )  :
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYGFBOHdYITHlsqa203Tu8Q

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #134 on: January 29, 2024, 09:14:51 AM »
@David

You can download Swerdis' builderless brick level here:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3743.msg81124#msg81124

The level is called "Somewhere Better Than Death Is Anywhere." What I meant by "builderless brick" is that it's a level in the ONML Brick tileset that doesn't provide any builders, as I couldn't remember the level name. I apologize for the confusion! :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Swerdis

  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #135 on: January 29, 2024, 11:49:41 PM »
Hello David,

it was my undertaking for this evening to solve the remaining four levels of your pack and I finally did it - even though it's already past midnight. It feels good as it's more or less the case with every pack, and I think it was a great travel during the last months -  I started August 23th last year and had my breaks now and then. As I already mentioned your pack has been composed with a lot of love for details, I like the visuals as much as most of the puzzles. I also appreciate that you still work on it as you seal backroutes, swap levels and so forth. It's a challenging pack I think, but not among the absolute hardest, the learning curve is quite steep in the beginning, but it's flattening towards the end. I would not say the final rank is much harder compared to the penultimate one. My favourite level, if I had to choose one, is probably Marathon 10 for it's unexpected, very surprising solution - no wonder it's also one of the hardest in my opinion. If you ever want to create new material you can be sure that I will definitely play it - I will find the time despite work and my three little daughters that are already quite interested in papa's games. We'll read from each other ;)

Offline kaywhyn

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #136 on: January 30, 2024, 12:04:58 AM »
@Swerdis

Copy/paste my Youtube comment on your final video of David's pack:

Congratulations on finishing David's pack! :thumbsup: My congratulations on finishing David's pack! =) It was a long and difficult journey, but you did it. Happy to hear that you enjoyed it despite the wonky difficulty, at least in the beginning. I absolutely agree with the amazing visual details that David really puts into these levels, they're very eye-pleasing to look at. Also happy to hear that you've gotten some inspiration from Davids' levels! That's why we play custom level packs to get ideas! They can really be very eye-opening to what one can do in Lemmings levels and in the editor.

Now, as promised two packs come to my mind for your next one to play:

- Strato's Lemmings Open Air, a pack which both Armani and I pre-tested. I'm currently pre-testing his Lemmings Hall of Fame pack, but I haven't gotten any new version from him since I last PMed him the rest of my replays a few months ago.

- nin10doadict's Casualemmings v2.0

Strato's pack is harder overall, even from the start, and so I feel like you would enjoy it a bit more. I'm not saying this because I pre-tested his pack :p I honestly do think this pack will be more enjoyable due to the pack's high difficulty, but it is an excellent pack that I absolutely enjoyed pre-testing! :thumbsup:

On the other hand, while nin10doadict's pack does say "casual" in the name and he intended this sequel pack of his to be for beginners, it doesn't stay easy for long. It already gets pretty difficult especially in the second half of the first rank but IMO this pack is definitely of higher quality than his Lemmings Squared pack, but this pack I just mentioned is only available for NL v10.13.18, i.e, Old Formats NL.

Don't worry, I won't be offended if you decide to go for nin10doadict's pack first before Strato's pack :p
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline David

  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
« Reply #137 on: January 30, 2024, 10:27:49 PM »
Thank you for playing my level pack, Swerdis, it was a real pleasure to watch your solutions, to read your remarks, your criticisms and your analyses, always relevant. I'm happy that you appreciated the design (I really like spending time making the levels harmonious and original!) as much as the puzzles, and your compliments make me very pleased. And I congratulate you on having successfully completed this challenge (a challenge that lasted 5 months, if I got it right!). :thumbsup:

So, I just updated my pack. ;)

Besides, I'm currently creating another pack (which should total around 50 levels). If I put it on the forum, I would be happy for you to play it, one day. ;P

Here is my feedback on the latest levels :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Turrican: Thank you very much. :P It’s really nice of you to give me all these links. :lem-shocked: I will add the custom music when I have finished designing all the levels in my next pack.

kaywhyn: Thanks for the link to the level (I downloaded it). I would have had a hard time finding it on my own in this maze... uh, this forum. :D