[NeoLemmix] Lemmings World Tour [Difficulty: Medium]

[Strato Incendus]

The gargantuan is here.




Download the pack
Download the music
Download the styles folder
(You're going to need the styles folder since some graphic sets have had additional pieces added to them.)





Lemmings World Tour features a massive 320 levels, divided evenly into eight ranks with 40 levels each:
Noisemaker, Amateur, Professional, Diva, Rockstar, Legend, Encore, and Groupie

The core premise is that of a musical band of lemmings touring the world.
Hence, all levels (with just a couple of rare exceptions) are based on song titles, especially songs that refer to specific geographical places.

The music consists entirely of real instrument versions of the classic Lemmings and Oh no! More Lemmings music.
All instruments were played, recorded, and mixed by myself.

So please credit me if you use these in your packs - this is handmade stuff, after all!

LWT also features a new graphic set called Instruments (see below), which I have released for editor usage in my graphic set thread. This graphic set is available for both Old and New Formats.

Disclaimer: This pack uses a lot of graphic set mixing for artistic purposes. The downside of this are occasional to regular crashes when loading up a level preview screen.
This is not going to harm your progress on the game or inside a given level in any way. Simply restart NeoLemmix and reselect the level via the level selection menu.

I tried arranging the levels in such an order that there shouldn't be too many heavy tileset mixing-levels in direct succession, but I couldn't get rid of the crashes completely.

There are also a couple of talismans to make some select levels from the first ranks a little more spicy.

On to the ranks!

Noisemaker
This rank is sort of a pre-rank to the main pack. Hence, it has Oh no! More Lemmings music playing throughout. Rather than doing standard introductory levels to the different skills and X-of-everything levels, like many other packs, you'll be taught a small number of skills in various combinations with each other. This way, the player can get familiar with a lot of the standard skill tricks in NeoLemmix. Expect predominantly small puzzles here, no huge any-way-you-want levels, and a lot of pre-level text screens.

Noisemaker Intended Trick List (click to show/hide)

Level 01, "I clicked a Lem; I liked it!": Destructive skills tank on steel, constructive skills turn around when building into terrain.
Level 02, "I love Rock 'n Roll": one lemming will always slip past a stacker at release rate 1 or higher (with a single hatch)
Level 03, "Into the pits": Basher- and Digger pits to contain lemmings
Level 04, "Going under": It is more efficient to go through larger chunks of terrain in one piece than to waste destructive skills on single smaller obstacles.
Level 05, "Over the rainbow": turning around Miners and Builders with Blockers
Level 06, "Ordinary world":1-of-everything level
Level 07, "Pick me up before you go-go": pickup skills, pre-placed lemmings
Level 08, "Glide and joy": to turn around a lemming on an even steel surface, you can build, then dig, then build into the remnants of the first staircase
Level 09, "Grenade": use release-rate increase to get past triggered traps
Level 10, "Noel nouvelet": 1-of-everything level with NeoLemmix skills
Level 11, "Can't stop this thing we started": build across Digger shafts to force lemmings to fall through facing in one direction only (=Dolly-Dimple trick)
Level 12, "We're not gonna take it": cut off a Builder's staircase behind him to isolate him as a pioneer
Level 13, "Paranoid": horizontal one-way arrows can be dug into, but vertical one-way arrows can't be bashed through
Level 14, "Digital world": exit buttons; digging to create a Climber path
Level 15, "Octopus's garden": introduce the Disarmer, and the fact that Strato likes animal traps!
Level 16, "Jump!": six-pixel jumps
Level 17, "How to save a life": using Stoners as stepping-stones for Builders; getting a second pioneer lemming by trapping the crowd at the foot of a wall and then having one lemming glide over whatever is holding the others back
Level 18, "Stop and stair": three-builder wall, sealing off Basher tunnels with Builders (reverse logic of level 12)
Level 19, "Lemming, I hardly knew ya!": It is possible to fall and climb through Blockers; this allows you to free them with Diggers.
Level 20, "Flight of the bumblebee": the flying-Builder trick (building in mid-air before the Digger falls down)
Level 21, "Rainbow in the dark": cancel one Miner with a Miner into the opposite direction
Level 22, "Locked away": Climbers can be contained by putting constructive skills at the top of straight walls
Level 23, "Shatter me": assigning Floaters and Gliders early or late to influence their speed
Level 24, "Hells bells": making Miners continue with Builders
Level 25, "Bash to you": Bashers can move down slopes
Level 26, "Don't stop me now": cancel one Digger with a Digger looking in the opposite direction --> re-use the Dolly-Dimple trick from Level 11 at the end!
Level 27, "Don't bring me down": You can move Bashers down (see level 25) by digging under them while they are bashing.
Level 28, "Bashing through the snow": cancelling Bashers mid-swipe with Walkers and Builders
Level 29, "Behind blue eyes": isolating a pioneer lemming from behind the crowd instead of from the front
Level 30, "In the army now": using terrain to turn lemmings around before destroying it to let them through in the opposite direction (adaptation of the Dolly-Dimple logic)
Level 31, "The one that go away": using lemmings slipping past Stackers to your advantage
Level 32, "Where them Lems at": using Basher tunnels in creation to turn lemmings around that couldn't turn around anymore once the tunnel is completed
Level 33, "Mein kleiner grüner Kaktus": using Blockers to cancel Diggers that only dig on the edge and don't have terrain right beneath them
Level 34, "Takes two to tango": the double-Builder turnaround (having two Lemmings build right next to each other will cause the one on the front to bump against the staircase of the Builder behind him and turn around)
Level 35, "While my Lemming gently builds": applying the logic from level 32 to use a Builder staircase in-creation to get a lemming across a water pond; once the Builder is finished, this path is closed off completely
Level 36, "Pull me under": putting a Blocker on a staircase to later free him with a Basher
Level 37, "Running up that hill": Bashers can also slope up (see level 25) when facing towards indestructible terrain at a low angle
Level 38, "Rock, Paper, Scissors": Stackers can be used to fill the space between a Stoner's hands and feet, thereby creating a straight wall of 6 pixels in height, which the Lemmings can jump (see level 16) over
Level 39, "Vegas Lights": Stoners can be used to make Swimmers dive
Level 40, "Absolute beginners": Many newbie solutions involve excessive use of Blockers and/or Builders - start looking for approaches without either of them (only for the talisman)!

Octopus's Garden

Vegas Lights


Amateur
This rank kicks off the rotation of the main lemmings tracks. The first levels group the different skills by type and direction of movement, the latter teach the player various advanced objects and how to interact with them. Level pre-texts are still pretty common here, but after that, you should be equipped with everything you need to know!

Amateur Intended Trick List (click to show/hide)

Level 01, "It's a long way to the top": all upward-moving skills
Level 02, "Timber (It's going down!)": all downward-moving skills
Level 03, "Walking on sunshine": all horizontally-moving skills
Level 04, "Stairway to Heaven": all diagonally-moving skills
Level 05, "Sugar Baby Lem": all destructive skills
Level 06, "Cliffs of Dover": all constructive skills + Climbers can get over Stackers, but not Stoners
Level 07, "Join me in death": all lethal and "reviving" skills
Level 08, "Who let the dogs out?": Disarmers + pickup skills
Level 09, "Greensleeves": pre-assigned-skill hatches, re-use the Stacker-Stoner trick (Noisemaker 38, only for the talisman)
Level 10, "I like to move it, move it!" splitters
Level 11", Whole lotta Lems": using destructive skills to create Climber paths
Level 12, "Smoke on the water": using water to break falls
Level 13, "Ayo Technology": radiation - using Blockers and Cloners to navigate radiating lemmings
Level 14, "Meet me halfway": Miners and Builders can cross through each other and both continue
Level 15, "Ring, Ring": re-using previous tricks (Stackers create Climber paths, lemmings slip by Stackers, building into terrain or bashing into indestructible terrain to turn lemmings around)
Level 16, "Slide it in": Gliders and Floaters can exit mid-air
Level 17, "Float": Swimmers will always move to the top of water areas, and Gliders will always move to the top of updrafts
Level 18, "Tears in Heaven": using one-way fields to turn around Miners and possibly Builders
Level 19, "Holding out for a hero": pre-assigned skills to pre-placed lemmings
Level 20, "Take me to your Heaven": teleporters
Level 21, "You can't play with broken Lems": anti-splat pads
Level 22, "Firework": using the nuke to bomb towards the exit; re-use turning a lemming around in a Basher tunnel (Noisemaker 32)
Level 23, "Fields of gold": one-use traps
Level 24, "Wonderwall": bouncing Bashers off of Blockers and one-way fields
Level 25, "Radioactive": using radiation as a tool to bypass radiation as a trap
Level 26, "Like ice in the sunshine": slowfreeze
Level 27, "Don't fear the Reaper": compression method to get past traps (re-use logic from Noisemaker 9)
Level 28, "Zombie": zombies

Starting from level 29, the levels are open-ended. The landscape levels also start showing up from here.

Georgia on my mind

God gave Rock 'n Roll to you


Professional
You're ready to visit more different locations in the world now. Additionally, there are levels focusing on one specific skill, but requiring all the tricks you can do with that particular one!

Streets of London

Queen of Chinatown


Diva
Some people can hit notes that leave the audience wondering how the heck they are doing this. And that is also a question you might ask yourself here, since the solutions become more and more whacky and obscure.

Don't cry for me, Argentina

My Lems will go on


Rockstar
Do you know how to command a crowd? Can you contain them when you have to, and make them move when you want them to?

Hollywood Hills

Berlin


Legend
The songs in here have gone down in history and will be remembered just as long as the people who played them!

Lemmingrad

The Phantom of the Opera



Encore
These are all levels from my preceding packs (Paralems, Pit Lems, and Lemmicks) that are also based on song titles. Conveniently, there were pretty much exactly 40 of them . Some have different solutions now, though, especially those from Lemmicks, due to the gimmicks they relied on being absent.

We are the Lempions

All along the watchtower


Groupie
Here you find levels by Colorful Strato and incendoadict : This is me making levels in the style of other forum members! I still tried to find appropriate song titles for most of them, but that rule isn't as strict here as on the main ranks. Can you guess who these two levels here are inspired by?

Take a Byte

What does the fox say?

If you've made your guesses, here you find the solutions :

Groupie rank level list (click to show/hide)

Level 01: When the cat's away... (click to show/hide)

nin10doadict. His level "Yum Yums" was the first to really introduce me to Raymanni's Food tileset. Plus, I just wanted to make a level with a cat in a kitchen . Since nin10doadict was the first one to ever LP a pack of mine, the honour of opening the Groupie rank goes to him. Signature element, aside from the cat trap, obviously, is the compression method required at the end.

Level 02: That's a hard level that is! (click to show/hide)

Flopsy. Hence, it uses all of his graphic sets that were available at the time of the creation of this level in conjunction (Star Zone and Scrap Brain). Aside from being a standard Hard-for-Flopsy level with release rate 99 and Lemmings headed for immediate death, it also contains a glider-stoner combination at the beginning that's pretty whacky. I didn't know back then that glider-stoner stuff was another Hard-for-Flopsy trademark, though . It just happened, and now I'm glad it's in there, because it just fits perfectly! Also, back when I made this level, I didn't know yet either that Flopsy had made Hard-for-Flopsy levels himself in SEB Lems. So yeah, it's both a level "inspired by Flopsy" as well as "hated by Flopsy".
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 01"

Level 03: Waking up the neighbours (click to show/hide)

Proxima. Look to his post at the beginning of the thread, he basically outlined everything perfectly . "Waking up the neighbours" was chosen because a) Proxima means "the neighbour" in Latin, and b) because some of the lemming crowds can break into the neighbouring "rooms" / disjoint unions, creating a solution with the single chambers interacting with each other.

Level 04: Praise be to God! (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty. This level combines pretty much everything I wanted to put into it: A "Boss fight" level, as they appear at the end of each rank in SubLems; a level with a very small number of Lemmings (4); one that uses one of Arty's tilesets (Lego); one that requires two skills to pass through each other (digger and basher); and, finally, if you actually carry out that solution, guess what you get? A cross!
I combined Lego and Sky to create the "cliché image" of a God as a face in the Sky with a big white beard. And since "thou shalt not make for yourself an idol" - in German, people translate this as "you shall not make for yourself an image of God", i.e. don't try to imagine what he looks like - the level in itself also creates a great justification to destroy the landscape with bashers and diggers. These Lemmings aren't attacking God, you know; they're merely destroying an image that shouldn't have existed in the first place.
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 02"

Level 05: No true Scotslem (click to show/hide)

Nessy. Okay, I know he's not actually Scottish . But this level doesn't claim to be a true Scotsman, does it? It's a level pretending to have been made by Nessy, but that isn't the case. It only relies on the Mineshaft tileset, which Nessy made frequent use of in Lemmings Migration. Also, the intended solution uses the basher-blocker turnaround trick, which I had to use twice in Lemmings Migration - even though Nessy told me it isn't actually part of his intended solution in either of those levels. Additional elements are the usage of a builder to prevent a climber from going up to a lethal fall height, and using a miner tunnel in-creation to turn around a second lemming.
The title is a reference to the No true Scotsman-logical fallacy, where you dismiss a valid counter-example against a claim of yours. The original scenario goes like this:
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge."
Person B: "My uncle Angus is Scottish, and he does put sugar in his porridge."
Person A: "No true Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge!"
Little detail: The tripped-over mine cart in form of an additional, fake exit tilted sideways and spilling gold pieces on the terrain. That's a neat visual gimmick Nessy used in Lemmings Migration, which sadly won't be possible in New Formats anymore.

Level 06: Stacks and stones (click to show/hide)

Raymanni. Uses his Snow tileset because it looks the most Finnish . Signature element is the stacker-stoner combination, i.e. using a stacker to enable the crowd to six-pixel-jump over a stoner. I had just heard of this trick for the first time here on the forums right around the time when I picked up on playing Raylems again - and then, Raylems was nice enough to confront me with a snow level where I had to put it into practice right away.

Level 07: (K)itty compression (click to show/hide)

nin10doadict. Pretty much his level building style 1 on 1: LPIV Space tileset + Time limit + having to bash through a wall from two sides because of said time limit + compression method to get past lots and lots of kitties. The level is called (K)itty compression because nin10doadict's own cat is actually called Itty; she had several guest appearances during his LP of my Pit Lems pack. You can notice these whenever nin10doadict shouts "My Itts!" during the videos - hence the pre-level screen .
Meanwhile, nin10doadict does have his own graphic sets, i.e. Tetris Attack and Lava, but neither of these were available at the time of the creation of this level.

Level 08: Icho chambers (click to show/hide)

IchoTolot & Proxima. Go figure, right? This is not a level inspired by his level building style, though - instead, something IchoTolot explicitly mentioned he hates: Disjoint unions. I made the chambers interact with each other via the teleporters, because IchoTolot mentioned this as a possible redeeming quality for disjoint union levels in his eyes. That way, the level became more similar to Proxima's level building style again. Thinking about it, I could have made it more "IchoTolot rage-quits" by adding in hidden traps... But I didn't think about it back then, and the level is complicated enough in the fair version that it is now.

Level 09: Wrong. (click to show/hide)

Duuduu. If you pay close attention, you notice the dot after the level title. This is already the first signature thing, because Duuduu somehow likes to put a period in his level title lines. Also, his level titles tend to be - at least in my personal opinion, no offense - a bit generic; like, for example, "A normal level" from "A Master Degree in Lemmings", which was the main inspiration for this one (and is actually a pretty awesome and unique level , merely disguised by what I in this case believe to be an intentionally generic title). I just combined it with a bit of fiddly crowd control on very thin pieces of terrain, because that's something Flopsy noticed as a repeating element during his LP of "A Master Degree in Lemmings". And I used the Marble tileset, because this seems to be the one Duuduu used the most in said pack.

Level 10: Read my lips (click to show/hide)

Flopsy. Just in case you hadn't already noticed from the letters "SEB" placed clearly visible in the level. Or by, you know, the fact that I openly state this level is for Flopsy in the pre-level screen. This one was an easy choice, given the song title premise of Lemmings World Tour: Just go with a reasonably successful song by SEB that Flopsy hadn't used in SEB Lems himself. Then make a big and complex Marble level with some random pickup skills dispersed throughout it, similarly to Flopsy's "Crash Course" or "Tricks of the Trade" level series. Curious little detail: Notice how the "lips" in the level actually form the letters "S", "E", and "B" next to them!
I'm gonna refrain from spoiling who "SEB" is at this point, because that falls into the domain of SEB Lems itself. But obviously, if you just put the level title into YouTube, you're going to find out, anyway.

Level 11: Killed by death (click to show/hide)

SQron. The pre-text gives a hint about this by using several words containing the letters "SQ", which are all written as capital letters. And yeah, Motörhead's "Killed by death" actually starts with the line "If you squeeze my lizard, I put my snake on you".
Most of SQron's levels in the "Snack Pack" used Oh no! More Lemmings graphic sets, with Bubble being the most common one. Compression method also was used. I just made the debatable decision of going with the Rock chameleon trap - a) because of "squeeze my lizard", and b) because I wanted to sneak in a hint about "snacky Lemmings", referencing the Snack Pack. Little did I know back then that this was the fastest trap in the entire game! So you have to get a little creative with your compression methods; simply increasing the release rate won't cut it!
Also, at the end there are several of the chains from the ONML Brick tileset placed right next to each other, creating a very rapid upward staircase. This was also used in a Snack Pack level.

Level 12: Tin Limmings on this livel (click to show/hide)

namida. Tree-tileset + bombing climbers + lots of miner-builder interactions. Also the part in the beginning where you have to seal off a hole between two tree trunks with a builder before other lemmings fall in is taken from a Lemmings Plus level, "Just breathe".
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 03"

Level 13: You know you make me wanna shout (click to show/hide)

Nepster & Colorful Arty. This is my attempt at one of these "fine lines of terrain" mazes as they typically appear in the Marble tileset. The original version of this level took aeons to create, because of all the thin terrain pieces, and the solution was way too dull. So I threw that away in favour of something less microscopic with a more interesting solution. This one strays pretty far from its sources of inspiration, namely things like "Don't cross me" from NepsterLems and "Labyrinth of Lucifer" from SubLems. But I feel it benefitted the overall quality of this particular level.
The title should still tell you how I generally tend to feel about these visually confusing fine-line Marble mazes!

Level 14: Scot-free (click to show/hide)

Nessy. The Brick tileset is the other one frequently used in Lemmings Migration. Signature elements are building across a digger shaft to make the lemmings fall through facing only in one direction - like in "Dolly Dimple" from ONML, but Nessy required this e.g. in "Cringe comedy". Also, isolating a lemming from behind a crowd, building across a gap from two sides, and stopping the crowd by bombing next to a steel block are all things I did to solve "A bridge across the chasm" from Lemmings Migration.

Level 15: Take a Byte (click to show/hide)

Wafflemm. Not only does this level contain the mandatory myriad of buttons and pick-up skills; it also contains Wafflemm's forum avatar in some fashion. Since that iconic structure made from pipes from the Bubble tileset is supposed to simulate a waffle, I thought it would go best with the Food tileset. Wafflemm himself mentioned in a stream that the only thing the Food tileset was missing was waffles!
The title may be a reference to Lemming Bytes, obviously - which happens to go nicely with the Food tileset here - but actually, most of this level is inspired by Wafflemm's smaller pack, "WaffLems" (which I don't have, unfortunately; I only watched Flopsy's LP of it). There was one Beach level in particular where Lemmings fall from the hatch right into an animal trap, gliders have to be used to bypass it, and a reverse basher is needed to make a wall climbable.
Finally, Wafflemm has the habit of labeling his pre-skilled lemmings' hatches with two pickup skills on both sides, rather than one pickup skill above it. So this is another little detail you can guess it from - just in case the rest of the level didn't make it glaringly obvious to you yet .

Level 16: All for love (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty & nin10doadict. I wasn't able to solve Arty's level "Sniper range", so I looked up the solution in his own LP of SubLems... and thought: "Hey, this can be done with fencers as well!" So I came up with something in the Medieval graphic set, because fencers obviously go well with dragon traps, flavour-wise . The fact that you have an infinite amount of fencers though makes this one more akin to the Troll rank levels from nin10doadict's CasuaLemmings.
All for Love is the title song to a Three Musketeers movie, and since you have to unite a lot of Fencers, I thought this was an appropriate choice .

Level 17: I am E.T. (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty. This is pretty much a straight remake of his SubLems level "I am R.T.", which in itself is already a parody of the original Sunsoft level "I am A.T.". So it's basically a parody of a parody . But it is also a reference to the Retro rank of SubLems, of course, where Arty came up with new solutions to existing original Lemmings levels. It's just that I did the same thing to one of his levels now! In contrast to the Retro rank though, this level is a lot easier than the one it was inspired by, because you have to go the other way round.
Fun fact: I had to rebuild this level by hand, because Arty cleverly switched off the option to dump the level files in the main menu of SubLems. But with a rather regular terrain shape like this one, that wasn't enough to stop me!

Level 18: Le vent nous portera (click to show/hide)

Pieuw. PimoLems used degrees of wind intensity as rank names, and Pieuw is from France, so I needed a somewhat successful French song title refering to the wind in one way or another. The title means "The wind will carry us", and actually, that's quite fitting to the solution of the level, which requires a lemming to start building while another one is bashing through a wall, so that this basher simultaneously cuts off the staircase behind the builder, preventing the crowd from following. This is a pretty unique trick I learned in a Brick level from PimoLems, so I just had to go with that!

Level 19: All you zombies (click to show/hide)

Strato Incendus. Or can you imagine anyone else who likes Zombies and Slowfreeze? Yeah, this one was shameless self-aggrandising. It didn't start out as a Zombie- or Slowfreeze level, though: All I wanted to do was enforcing a Basher going down a Fencer tunnel. So I needed some way to re-obstruct that Fencer tunnel with terrain. Having a bunch of uncontrollable lemmings (Zombies) petrify inside that tunnel without the player wanting them to (Slowfreeze) was the best way I could come up with. Also, I wanted to exploit the fact that at a certain height of terrain under water, non-climber swimmers will dive under it while climber-swimmers will climb up.

Level 20: Bon appetit! (click to show/hide)

Pieuw, Colorful Arty, Wafflemm, Raymanni... Food levels aren't really anyone's exclusive signature thing. This is essentially a combination of all Food-relating structures I could find in various packs: The cheese from "Lemburger Cheese / This level stinks" and the cake from "Piece of cake! / Cakewalk" (Arty's SubLems), the lemonade from "Lemming Soda" (Pieuw's PimoLems), the before mentioned waffle and the Pillar-tileset Hamburger from "Lemburger" (Wafflemm's Lemmingbytes), the Food graphic set by Raymanni. I did recreate all the structures myself by hand, though, no copy-pasting from other people's levels... and so, I added in some pieces of my own, like the ice cream, the pizza, and the french fries . So now I've contributed my share to the pot-luck dinner party!

Level 21: Kiwi knights in white satin (click to show/hide)

Zanzindorf. Using his signature Kiwi knight tileset, this one requires two pioneer lemmings, as many of his levels do. Also, digging into a chamber to use it as a climber-turnaround facility is quite neat, plus sending a lemming up somewhere and bomb him as a faller to free the crowd.

Level 22: We are yung (click to show/hide)

Yung Gotenks. Signature elements are the abundance of walkers, platformers, and builders, plus the Hell graphic set, since Yung Gotenks made an entire pack consisting only of Hell levels... and the fact that the level overall is comparatively easy. No offense here! The way the pioneer lemming is isolated is a little tricky though, I took this from one of the more challenging levels from Yung Gotenks's packs, can't remember which one it was, though, unfortunately.
The title was really fitting, because the song "We are young" actually contains the line "so we set the world on fire", which goes nicely with the Hell tileset!

Level 23: The Earth Song (click to show/hide)

bulletride. Essentially a combination of the Lemmings Stampede levels "Deep Six" and "A walk in the park", this one requires the crowd to do something while a builder bridge is being built - because once the bridge is completed, it isn't possible to mine in the right spot anymore.

Level 24: Dove is in the air (click to show/hide)

Dodochacalo. DoveLems taught me this neat little trick of using several diggers to make some space, then use that space to build and close off a basher tunnel, making that basher the pioneer lemming. One of the most creative ways of crowd control I've come across so far! Enforcing it was a little difficult, though, I hope the fire traps at the top of the level are enough...
Also, forcing all lemmings of one crowd to become climbers is a thing in DoveLems, plus the idea of sealing a little gap between two walls to make them climbable. Though one of my levels in Lemmings World Tour also requires the same thing, only with a stacker.

Level 25: Part of ze Reunion (click to show/hide)

IchoTolot. I couldn't go with having only a "hate" level in here for IchoTolot, right? So first of all, this level obviously uses IchoTolot's City tileset, which I've made great use of for creating all the geographical locations here in Lemmings World Tour. But there's also a neat little trick I learned from IchoTolot, and that is the fact that a digger who is digging so far at the edge of a piece of terrain that there actually isn't any ground beneath his centre can be cancelled by assigning a blocker to him. The only way to make a digger dig so far at the edge though is to place a builder or platformer there first, and then start digging while the lemming is halfway on that bridge. Additionally, the way the crowd has to be controlled here is fairly common in Lemmings Reunion, to my mind. Finally, what I did to namida, I can't spare IchoTolot from: Pronouncing "th" like "z" is a thing typical of many Germans when speaking English .
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 04"

Level 26: Clam-a-Lem-a Ding Dong (click to show/hide)

Clam. Apart from the Beach tileset, a thing that's very common in Clammings is vertical scrolling. Few other content creators use it that frequently. This level isn't very complicated, mainly because I haven't gotten too far on Clammings yet - I've played through most of the 10-of-everything levels, and most of the slightly complex levels are already complex enough to stomp me . But this one is slightly inspired by "Bucket list", and makes use of several NeoLemmix skills that Clam has used quite often in his pack (platformers and stoners, namely).

Level 27: Deceit and destruction (click to show/hide)

Deceit. I couldn't really come up with a better name here: What I wanted to hint at is that Deceit's Lemmings contains a lot of levels relying on destructive skills, oftentimes intentionally not providing any creative skills at all, or only so few of them that you only have enough for the bare necessities, i.e. gaps. Every other obstacle has to be overcome by some creative combination of destructive skills. I was pretty impressed by that, so I hope I was able to recreate it somewhat successfully...!

Level 28: Hiroshima (click to show/hide)

GigaLem. Freedom planet graphic set + Zombies + Radiation. With Resident GigaLemmings, there is an entire pack dedicated to Zombies, the only one in this fashion I know of, apart from namida's original Doomsday Lemmings, of course. Radiation appeared in the Millas pack, but mostly in the fair form that I have come to use as well, i.e. providing you with enough blockers to stop the radiant lemmings, and only using radiation in the first place in order to limit the area where the bombing can occur. This one is fairly far away from its source of inspiration, though; I really wanted to have this place and song in here, so that there would be a famous song refering to Japan. And the Freedom planet tilesets look Japanese, especially the Dragon one, with these iconic trees.
By the way: This one was the very last level in the pack I finished. And I hated every second of it. Not because of the execution, though; I just had such a hard time coming up with something creative here! Also, the terrain had to be adjusted quite a lot to give one of the pioneer lemmings enough time to escape from the zombies... the radiation actually wasn't the issue here, but Zombies are moving objects as well, after all. But now, everything works fine, and the player shouldn't face any execution trouble with this level.

Level 29: Every Geoff you take (click to show/hide)

Geoffster. Signature visual element is the steel boat at the bottom, with the side scuttles. Signature mechanic is the necessity to use a turned-around builder to gain 1 pixel in height and get over a wall. The second part of the level was inspired by "Planks", as well as its rerun.

Level 30: Joga (click to show/hide)

Mobius / Call me Bronco. Originally, I wanted to name the level "Call on me, Bronco", referring to the song "Call on me" made famous by Eric Prydz. But then, I read about mobius's hobby of meditation, and thought, fine, let's make the level refer to East Asian practices instead . An alternate contender for the level title was "Occidentali's Karma", a song by Italian singer Francesco Gabbani from last year about how modern Westerners pick up Eastern customs. But it's pretty much only known inside the Eurovision Song Contest crowd. So I went with this much more famous song by Icelandic singer Björk instead.
Signature elements are the double-duty use of a builder initially required to seal off a water pond, with that builder also being required as part of the path for the later solution. Also, the way to isolate the pioneer lemming here is something I've learned exclusively from mobius: Placing a reverse staircase under the hatch, so that all lemmings go to the left, and then using the last lemming from the hatch (who's still facing to the right) to build the second staircase.
Little visual element: Notice the "torches" that you typically find on top of exits, placed as separate objects everywhere in the level. This is a thing Mobius frequently does, which will sadly disappear, too, in case of a New Formats conversion.

Level 31: Ya ochen rad... (click to show/hide)

GigaLem. The full title of this Russian song is "Ya ochen rad, ved ya, nakonets, vozvraschayus domoy", translating to "I am very glad, as I'm finally returning back home". But you all know it under a different title . Yes, folks, it is the Trololo song! And it was chosen because GigaLem's first pack, GigaLems, contained a lot of troll elements - not only hidden traps, which is annoying because that pack is only playable in NeoLemmix 1.43, i.e. without clear physics mode - but also exits covered in bricks, which look like normal exits, though. This particular visual trick only works with the Marble tileset. Also, GigaLems contains a lot of levels where you have to get something done before the crowd arrives, meanwhile that crowd goes on an odyssee across a long path of terrain to give you a little more time.

Level 32: Fernando (click to show/hide)

Alberto Fernandes. His pack "Be smart!" contains lots of random flags, as used in the original two-player levels, placed throughout the levels. Also a lot of steel. On top of that, most of his levels require just a tiny bit of ever-so-slight vertical scrolling. So I literally built than in here, too, just for the sake of it.

Level 33: We don't need another hero (click to show/hide)

Deceit. Yeah, Deceit's Lemmings also happens to contain a lot of very innovative Hero levels, i.e. one of every classic skill, like in the original level "It's hero time!" Since this refers to the skill set, I obviously couldn't combine it with Deceit's other trademark of emphasizing destructive skills so much. So he earned himself two levels in the rank!

Level 34: I see fire (click to show/hide)

kieranmillar. The beginning is something I came up with myself, that happened to turn out more challenging than expected in a pleasantly surprising way. The actual signature trick comes at the end: Here you need to free a blocker by bombing another lemming right next to him, so that a third lemming turns around and falls into the bomber pit, from which he can then start bashing to go underneath a bunch of fire traps. You can't do this from the other side, lest the crowd would walk up into the fire traps while bashing.
So yeah, you don't want your lemmings to see fire, obviously. But the title also enabled me to put the hint about the level inspiration into the author line for the first time! (The level is credited to "Ed Kieran".)

Level 35: Fly me to the moon (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty. I think this makes Arty the user with the most dedicated levels in this rank. Which is kind of deserved, given that his level design overall inspired huge portions of this pack - and that he showed interest in LPing it early on! This particular level, however... is not necessarily a reason for celebration. I knew about this trick, but I didn't think of it as one of Arty's signature things until I got to the Hellish rank of SubLems, where you have to do this nasty flying builder-stuff twice. I couldn't fit it into any of the other Arty levels, so you earned yourself an additional level here - but I'm most certainly not a fan of this trick!
In the end, to make it a little more Arty-like, I made it more artistic by combining different tilesets again, with clouds from Sky and the moon from the Polar tileset. Also, there's an invisible exit, as they appear several times in SubLems. Just like in SubLems though, it should be pretty obvious where it is - as if the title didn't provide enough of a hint .

Level 36: What does the fox say? (click to show/hide)

Gronkling. A lot of people seem to expect Lemmings Evolution to be one of the hardest packs ever, possibly topping NepsterLems in that regard. While the first five demo levels didn't stomp me as much as I expected - I was able to solve four out of five of them - every single one of them contained very distinctive signature tricks. Making miners go through with builders is already the most "mainstream" of them; using a miner to free a crowd from a digger shaft so that they only come out facing in one direction, and at the same time turning that miner around by hitting steel, that's some nice double-duty usage right there! Also, at the beginning the similarly obscure double-builder turnaround is required (taught in the Noisemaker rank, though ). I went with Gronkling's highly requested Minimal tileset here, which he originally planned to release as a rewards-only thing. Anyways, for all these reasons, it was pretty certain that this level would have to come very late in the Groupie rank. I don't know if it's indeed one of the most difficult ones, but it's certainly very complex, with lots of different stages going on.

Level 37: Johnny B. Goode (click to show/hide)

bsmith. Hence the name, a famous song including a separate "B". I also could have gone with "Sloop John B" . A recurring thing I noticed in bsmith's level pack is original Lemmings levels remade in a different tileset - in this case, I went with "Builders will help you here" and made it a Brick level. But obviously, the solution is completely different.

Level 38: A Mazu Grace (click to show/hide)

Martin Zurlinden. I noticed that MazuLems contains a lot of snow levels, even though the core premise of this level is taken from a Rock level, where several climbers have to work together to put builders in different spots in the most ergonomically efficient way.

Level 39: Not the incended solution (click to show/hide)

Strato Incendus. For the penultimate level, I played the reverse game and threw together everything that other people had identified as my signature level design elements. In fact, nin10doadict's level "Super Mecha Death Gators" from CasuaLemmings is what got the whole idea to the Groupie rank started, where he took my main idea of spiced-up animal traps and developed it further. So now I did the same thing with another animal trap. Also, there's a skeletal alien creature somewhat reminiscent of my "Death Titan", a level which many people seem to have enjoyed in Paralems, even though I myself considered the solution pretty lame. That alien creature breathes fire and has lightning traps in its eyes, so don't try shortcutting here! Other things I like to do frequently is enforcing swimmer usage to platform over a pont from the opposing side; using stoners as stepping stones for builders under low ceilings; and having a digger pay double-duty to lower a lemming's position and turn around the crowd. This trick proved to be very successful in my Pit Lems "Curse Level", @!#*§$%/!
Finally, I don't know whether backroutes can be considered a signature element of mine, but since I like to test my packs "in the field", probably so? Well, the name just asked for this stupid pun in the level title...

Level 40: The Grand Puzzle (click to show/hide)

Nepster. This is my attempt at recreating a Final Frustration-like experience. Signature elements are the 20-of-everything skill set with only classic skills, plus the several crowds you have to unite - plus the fact that from all the skills you have, builders are the one you are most likely going to run out of. Also, there's a structure which actually consists of Dirt tileset pieces, but which goes very well with the Pillar tileset: The "Diagonal disarray" from the level with that same title from NepsterLems.
I know Nepster doesn't consider Final Frustration one of his best levels, nor even one most representative of his level building style. But it remains a fact that X-of-everything levels are a very common thing in NepsterLems, and I've built other Nepster-style levels in the past, such as "You had it coming" from Pit Lems.
Nepster's levels were outlined to me by IchoTolot during my early days here in the forum as the prime example of fair difficulty, the epitome of the "puzzle" ideal the NeoLemmix community strives for. Hence the title.
This level is simply put the most challenging resource conservation-level I could come up with. I don't know if it's possible to save everyone here, as it is required on Final Frustration - I had to use one blocker facing in the wrong direction, so I couldn't free him anymore later. Hence, you have to save all but one.
But if anyone finds a 100% solution, please inform me! I would make that a Gold Talisman for sure!

See the development thread for more level images and history on the creation of the pack!

Changes to the music pack may occur if I do encounter further noticeable timing issues or similar while listening to the tracks. Please report any you notice, too!

Finally, eventually the level "Turn this club around!" from Lemmicks might still be added to the Encore rank. I only noticed late in development that this one was also a song title, and so far I didn't know which of the others to take out instead.

After almost one year in the making, I really hope you are going to enjoy playing this pack as much as I did creating it!

Let the show begin!

[Proxima]

Solution to Groupie 3 "Waking up the neighbours". I'm going to guess this is the level inspired by my "style", since it uses a few features I've talked about:

* Disjoint union, with the parts not actually separated so a solution could involve interaction (though I found a solution that doesn't). This is probably what the title refers to.
* Some of the pieces seem to be inspired by specific original levels, which I also did in "Box Set" and "Metal City Mayhem".
* Skillset is highly patterened and contains unusable bombers. Platformers and Stackers are the only "new" skills used.
* No specific intended solution (I assume), but it's still not trivial and you have to be careful allocating skills among the sublevels.
* ...and of course, great use of my tileset Though I have a small critique: if it were actually me building it, each box would use only one colour, or closely related colours like the blue/cyan and red/orange boxes you have. I wouldn't mix green and orange in a single box, nor purple and cyan.

I'm looking forward to playing the rest of the pack, but I think the most fun part will be going through the rest of the Groupie rank and seeing how many authors I can identify

[Flopsy]

Rank 4 Level 27 has an obtain loop error for me, every other level loaded for me (eventually!).

I started playing the first 4 levels in this pack and I thought the pack felt fresh and inspiring, it looks like a promising pack.

I'm interested in YouTube LPing this pack at some point in the future, not sure when yet.
The only intense issue I've got with this pack is the insane amount of error messages I got when checking every level in this pack to see if they load. I get that some levels are going to have this issue due to the amount of tilesets used.

Also I'd like to change the music for this pack for the LP, have I got your permission to do that Strato?


I'm going to change my LP format for this pack to the format I currently use for Lix Lemforum pack where if I cannot solve a level after a set amount of time, I will move onto the next level and then when I have a significant number of off screen solves, I will do a replay review video for them. This format seems to have worked for Lix and as a result I have got less angry with the pack overall.

I may or may not finish this pack, 320 levels is an insane size for a pack. I'll try and get as far as I can anyway.

[nin10doadict]

I have gotten "obtain terrain loop" errors as well. I think they're caused by the level containing pieces that are not in the tileset version the player has.
For instance, I get an error on Groupie 34 because it can't find piece 64 in the Fire tileset. That's because the version of said tileset that I have only has 58 terrain pieces in it.

Strato, did you add any pieces to your tilesets while making this pack? Perhaps making your styles folder part of the download could solve this type of error.

The pack is pretty fun so far. Even the early levels aren't trivial. Groupie 7 was... Fantastic. The preview text really did it. Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, you know?
I haven't played a huge number of other people's levels, so I don't know how many 'styles' I'll be able to pick out from that rank. I'll probably be getting stuck on some levels in this pack too, so expect videos in my "help me" topic at some point!

[Strato Incendus]

Wow, you guys were quick to respond! First and foremost:

Strato, did you add any pieces to your tilesets while making this pack? Perhaps making your styles folder part of the download could solve this type of error.

Yes, I did indeed, thanks for pointing this out! I added the teleporter to the brick tileset, and many of the custom elements that were created for the New Formats updates of Pillar, Fire, Marble etc. I thought including all styles in the pack file itself would be fine, since the instruments tileset is all new, and those levels seem to work even if you don't have the style yet.

Now you can get it as part of the styles folder in the starting post (I will release it separately in the graphic sets subforum, too). My styles folder also contains the unfinished Indian tileset I've been working on, but it doesn't actually appear in any of the levels.

Groupie 7 was... Fantastic. The preview text really did it. Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, you know?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Glad you liked it! That was one of the first levels to be created for the Groupie rank , so I was hoping for it to be easily identifiable. There is a second level inspired by you, still... relies on a similar tactic. Though I strayed from your signature elements a little more in the second one.

I actually tried to use each forum member's custom graphic sets on their respective level(s) whenever possible. It's just that your levels were created so early that, as far as I remember, your own graphic sets hadn't been released yet at that time .

@Proxima:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You're correct, that is your level . This one was actually based entirely on your descriptions in the "signature design elements" thread, I haven't had the chance to look at your original creations in Lix yet. I was considering to remove all non-classic skills from the solution, i.e. the platformer and the stacker, but I liked the solution(s) possible with this skillset too much, so I stuck with them.
Also, "Waking up the neighbours" is partly an allusion to the separate chambers, indeed - but also to your name, since Proxima means "the neighbour" or "the closest one" .

The only intense issue I've got with this pack is the insane amount of error messages I got when checking every level in this pack to see if they load. I get that some levels are going to have this issue due to the amount of tilesets used.

Well, if you jump through all the levels with the arrow keys or level selection menu to do such a test, obviously this means that NeoLemmix has to load a bunch of graphic sets in an even shorter amount of time than if you were playing any of the levels in between. So this is bound to cause more crashes. I tested the general "fluency" of the pack by just letting replays run over each level, and then usually the number of crashes was tolerable. Some graphic sets simply have a longer loading time (especially GigaLem's Freedom Planet ones), but they do load up eventually. Instruments also takes a while to load, due to the higher resolution.

Also I'd like to change the music for this pack for the LP, have I got your permission to do that Strato?

Well, the music is indeed a huge part of what makes this pack somewhat unique - and a huge part of the work that went into it. But of course, it's your LPs and your channel, where you can do whatever you like! I'm happy for all gameplay videos I get to see either way.

@Colorful Arty has also uttered interest in LPing this pack a while ago in the development thread, so perhaps he'll keep the original music . You could even split the pack up between several users, considering the enormous size!

Especially now that @nin10doadict has said he may post some videos of this as well, even if it's just for the sake of asking for advice .


I'm happy the Groupie rank is being met with such immediate resonance! I'm definitely going to upload some kind of chart soon, so you can look up which levels are inspired by whom.

Some of you have several levels dedicated to them - this is nothing personal, it was just dependant on what type of inspiration I could get, and how many signature patterns I was able to identify from your packs .

[namida]

Groupie 7 was... Fantastic. The preview text really did it. Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, you know?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Glad you liked it! That was one of the first levels to be created for the Groupie rank , so I was hoping for it to be easily identifiable. There is a second level inspired by you, still... relies on a similar tactic. Though I strayed from your signature elements a little more in the second one.

I actually tried to use each forum member's custom graphic sets on their respective level(s) whenever possible. It's just that your levels were created so early that, as far as I remember, your own graphic sets hadn't been released yet at that time .

Based on that (including the part in the spoiler tag), I can narrow mine down to being level 5 or 12... or since you say there may be more than one, possibly both, with 5 being based on my style in recent packs and 12 on older ones (LPI / II); the graphic sets also fit this.

I'm pretty sure I majorly backrouted both, but I can sort of see very namida-ish solutions on them.

If I'm right with these guesses, there are a few elements of my design style you missed, but overall you did a pretty good job.

[Strato Incendus]

@namida

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Tin Limmings on this livel" is yours, indeed. "No true Scotslem", even though it uses one of your graphic sets, is for someone else... that user simply likes using the Mineshaft graphic set a lot, too . Like (K)itty compression, that's also one of your graphic sets, obviously, since you made so many, but nin10doadict just happened to use the LPIV Space one quite often - at least in CasuaLemmings.

So yeah, I'm happy that I apparently got close enough with Groupie 12 . If Groupie 5 strays a little further, well, that's because it's for a different user!

I jumped around between a lot of your packs, trying to identify signature elements. I remember there was one Psychedelic level that stuck in my mind, with lots of miner and builder combinations. On many other packs, however, I usually got stuck pretty quickly after the 10-of-everything levels. ^^

[namida]

I see. My solution is likely a backroute (I PM'd you the replay), so I can't comment on how namida-ish the intended solution is. But here's some feedback on the general design and how well it fits my style.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I just realised, the title is poking fun at how I talk. No offence taken, just to be clear - just saying I didn't notice that before.

In the topleft area - the thingies hanging from the tree, I would ALWAYS have them drawn behind the tree mass (no overwrite, or lower Z index). Assuming they aren't both relevant to the solution, I'd also most likely give one the knot end, and the other the straight end.

I wouldn't do that thing with the web across the top, unless it was vital to the solution. Even those spider webs coming off the tree and going up to the top feel a bit iffy.

You did correctly note that with pieces like the green ropey thing, I never have them abruptly cut off, but always either connect with terrain or have a proper end piece (which is actually something that made me kinda have my doubts about Groupie 5 being my level). However - the use of the tree leaves that are otherwise hanging in midair as the end for those, really doesn't feel like something I'd do. Same goes for these hanging upwards like that - this one is rather specific to this piece.

The biggest one to me is the one-way arrows, and the abrupt cutoff. Take a closer look at cases where I've used one-way arrows and how I cut them off at the edges, in particular with regards to rough-edged terrain and tileable straight-edged terrain:

Lemmings Plus II, Nice 7 "Together We Sand" (click to show/hide)

Look in particular at the top and bottom - the arrows don't abruptly cut off, nor do they overlap the rough sand at all.

Lemmings Plus II, Sneaky 5 "Misfortune of the Masses" (click to show/hide)

Look at the right edge. Notice how it doesn't abruplty cut off in a straight line, but rather has a rough edge to it?

Lemmings Plus II, Genius 6 "Treetop Trial" (click to show/hide)

And here's an example that's actually in the tree style.

Lemmings Plus VI, Loopy 18 "A Lemming Is Born" (click to show/hide)

Notice that the one-way-arrow terrain goes behind other terrain here. In this case, there are simply no one-way arrows on the other terrain. Alternatively, I could have placed the one-way terrain in front of the non-one-way terrain, if I wanted the one way arrows to be completely continuous. But having them simply cut across the red terrain - both starting and ending at arbitrary points in it (even if they may line up to something on a different piece) - just doesn't feel right, and generally is something I'll only do if I absolutely have to.

I guess the general gist of it is - except perhaps where a clear border exists in the terrain's graphic, I'm usually not going to use one-way arrows in a way where they only cover part of any given terrain piece - if they affect a piece, they affect the entirity of that piece - and a tiling of pieces (like longer or shorter green ropes) gets counted as a single piece for the purpose of this "rule".

I know this is extremely subtle, but it's also one of the most consistent details of my style - it's not entirely without exception, but exceptions are rare.


Overall though, you did well visually; I don't think I could do nearly as a good a job of imitating anyone else's style. I very much like the use of the tree and dirt combined in the top-right - I could definitely see myself making a structure like that.

[Strato Incendus]

Hi namida, thanks for pointing out the "cosmetics" of your level building style! I'll see to what extent I can implement them in the next version of the pack. For example, I thought if one-way arrows were put behind other terrain pieces, then there'd be a non-one-way gap in between which could be exploited for backroutes?

The level you linked that's supposed to be in the Tree style is a Psychedelic level, though . Guess you picked the wrong image?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I just realised, the title is poking fun at how I talk. No offence taken, just to be clear - just saying I didn't notice that before.

Not only you, I guess, but anyone from New Zealand, for that matter. You're simply the only user from New Zealand I know on this forum .

I was curious about how you'd take it ^^, and hence got a little nervous when I saw the info about a personal message...

Essentially though, it's not so much a joke as it is simply onomatopoeia . If we had users from Canada (don't know of any), I probably would have made a level title containing the characteristic "oot" or "aboot". Though to my ears, "oat" and "aboat" would actually be closer to the way Canadians pronounce these words.

That said, specifically the words "lemmings" and "level" are of course words I heard you say very often - and you're definitely not the only user whose quotes have made it into the Groupie rank ^^ ...

So, in essence, "poking fun at how people talk", yeah, I did that to several people here .

[Colorful Arty]

340 levels!?

Hooooly cow. That is a lot!

Regarding me LPing this pack; I am still interested for sure! However, due to the sheer length of the pack coupled with me only uploading 3 videos a week now, if I undergo this LP, it will take a LONG TIME to finish. I have a few options:

1) Continue my current upload schedule and start LPing this pack and uploading after my Ace Attorney series finishes; the series is almost done, so uploads could happen next week. The problem with this is I've already just about finished recording my next 3 LPs, so this will delay these considerably.
2) LP this simultaneously with my other main LP and upload a World Tour video once a week. I like this idea, but it means I'll be LPing World Tour for a really long time and people won't get frequent videos.
3) Go back to my old upload schedule of 6-7 videos a week and include World Tour along with the other game I LP. This means people get lots of content, but I have less free time.

Out of these options, I'm inclined to lean towards 3, as Lemmings videos take the least amount of time to edit, save, and upload BY FAR, so it really won't suck up a lot of my time.

One thing I want to know is how difficult this pack is. If it's comparable to Lemmicks in difficulty, this will be a tough challenge. If it's more similar to ParaLems or PitLems, that will be much more manageable. If it gets really difficult and I can only solve 1 level per video eventually, I may change to post-commentary videos after a while.

[nin10doadict]

Well I've finished the first rank and from what I have seen so far, the difficulty is fairly high. Not as lethal as Lemmicks, but it's no cakewalk. Difficulty is also a bit sporadic; there's some pretty easy levels mixed in with hard ones. It kinda goes all over the place.

[Strato Incendus]

340 levels!?

Hooooly cow. That is a lot!

Then good thing it's only 320 ! (8 x 40)

Out of these options, I'm inclined to lean towards 3, as Lemmings videos take the least amount of time to edit, save, and upload BY FAR, so it really won't suck up a lot of my time.

That depends entirely on your time and schedule! I doubt this pack is going to be something anyone plays through in one fell swoop, anyway.

One thing I want to know is how difficult this pack is.

See, that's pretty difficult for me as the creator to access . I can tell you that I'm certainly constantly aiming to make my levels more and more challenging - usually though, this results in many of the supposedly more complicated levels also having more backroutes (because a larger skillset equals greater degrees of freedom than the more constrained levels in the early ranks).

The first two ranks still give lots of hints through pre-level text screens. The main idea is that I won't require any obscure tricks from the player in the later ranks unless I've taught the player those tricks before.

The later levels often include stuff such as making destructive skills go through several obstacles - since that is kind of your specialty, those opportunities are probably going to be easier for you to spot .

If it's comparable to Lemmicks in difficulty, this will be a tough challenge. If it's more similar to ParaLems or PitLems, that will be much more manageable.

Well, the Encore rank has levels from all three packs, so the difficulty will vary accordingly!

I hope it's somewhere in the middle, honestly. I tried to combine the themed nature of Paralems with the mechanical puzzly-ness of Pit Lems.

The difficulty of Lemmicks is somewhat odd - because it mainly arises from the different game physics. That included the solid level sides in the otherwise gimmick-less Basic rank, and goes on with every gimmick that is introduced. I don't think Lemmicks has harder puzzles than Pit Lems per se; it's just that it takes a lot of time to get used to all these different rules, especially for people who have more experience playing regular NeoLemmix levels. I for one have definitely put more time into creating levels than playing other levels - mainly because I get stuck on most packs relatively early .

Well I've finished the first rank and from what I have seen so far, the difficulty is fairly high. Not as lethal as Lemmicks, but it's no cakewalk. Difficulty is also a bit sporadic; there's some pretty easy levels mixed in with hard ones. It kinda goes all over the place.

Congratulations for completing the first rank, then! You were pretty fast in doing that!

Aside from difficulty being hard to assess for one's own levels, there are two other factors that are going to prevent this pack from having a linear difficulty curve:

1) Music matching - some levels just require certain tracks in the background (i.e. Alla turca for "Vienna", London Bridge for "Streets of London", etc.) in order to be believable .
2) Graphic set mixing - I can't put too many "city" levels in direct succession to each other without causing frequent crashes.

But I also find it somewhat nice to have some "breather" levels in between. I don't want the early ranks to be cakewalks and the higher ranks to be an endless stream of frustration, especially considering how long every single rank is (40 levels) . I do admire it though when people manage to create such a very linear difficulty curve, like Arty in SubLems.

It's just that certain levels are also thematically tied to given rank names, such as the Diva rank featuring a lot of levels named after songs by female solo singers, Rockstar containing a lot of songs by rock and metal bands, and so on . I therefore can't move them around as freely as levels in other packs. I can just make single levels more or less difficult to match their given position within a rank.

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks, Flopsy, that was fast! I'm subscribed to you on YouTube anyway, so I'll notice; I just activated the bell now in addition .

So far, everything is as intended. The two skills you spared were just there to provide a bit of extra leeway (bashing into the terrain on Noisemaker 04, as you said you did in an earlier attempt, and for extra crowd control on Noisemaker 05).

I already said it beneath the video, but I'll say it here again, I like how you take the time to comment on the songs a little bit! ^^ That was actually one of the main purposes for making this pack - I wanted to include lots of references that many people have a chance of understanding.

That led to me having to include quite a lot of songs that I don't even particularly like myself, but that are at least somewhat famous... for better or for worse...

[Colorful Arty]

My plan for LPing this pack will be very similar to Flopsy's. I'll be playing generally in order, but skipping levels that really stump me and saving them for later to keep a good pace with the pack. I will not change the music unless Youtube mutes my videos because of them.

I hate leaving things unfinished, so I'll do my darndest to finish the pack, although I may take a break or two mid-LP due to the length; I don't want to get burned out.

My goal is to have my videos scheduled like this:

M/W/F: Main LP
T/Th: Lemmings World Tour

This way, I'll go up to 5 videos a week; I still have two days off of videos, and people can use the weekend to catch up on any videos they missed during the week. I'll likely start recording before the weekend! I can't wait!

[Strato Incendus]

Wow, now that's truly awesome, guys! I certainly don't remember any other packs that have been let's played simultaenously by several people (aside from contest / Level of the Year compilations, of course).

YouTube shouldn't mute any of this music - not more than they mute original Lemmings tracks, at least , because that's all there is to it regarding the composition, it's just newly arranged and recorded.

The content ID system can identify covers of existing songs, as I noticed on my channel Metalvision Song Contest (but those videos were simply monetised by the original rights owners, then). But since you can listen to both the original tracks for all platforms and custom remakes, I don't see any reason why YouTube should have a problem with this.

That was actually my main motivation for recording these tracks, after nin10doadict had criticised Pit Lems for not having custom music .

[Flopsy]

I have cancelled my LP of this pack and subsequently pulled the Part 1 video of Lemmings World Tour.

I feel the quality of this pack severely deteriorated in Rank 2 Amateur and descended into a mass of troll levels. I had high hopes for this pack and was extremely let down by the severe drop in quality that happens about midway through Rank 2 so I decided to stop recording and cancel the LP.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Levels such as Amateur 7, 13 and 16 are reasons why this pack severely went downhill.
Amateur 7 - why the hell is a Stoner bridge level like this going to be fun to play? I just ended up skipping over this one after a few minutes of trying to pass the vertical wall!
Amateur 13 - again, why is this radiation level going to be fun?
Amateur 16 - I complained about this exact trick being used in SubLems, it caused a controversial topic at the time and I don't see why this level should be spared being mentioned this time.
All these levels in a small space of time was enough to eventually kill the LP, the last straw was seeing that Amateur 28 was called Zombie and I immediately quit the pack at this point.

You claim that you made 280 levels in a year (since one rank is full of re-released levels) that means you were close to making a level a day for this pack and it looks like you spent too much time making the levels pretty and not enough time making quality solutions. I enjoyed the first rank of this pack but I think it's because I expected the levels to be kind of cheap and simplistic, by the 2nd rank I was expecting better quality levels than what came along.
Instead you just succeeded in making the most annoying levels I have come across and it didn't make for great videos, luckily no one is going to see them anyway.

You've been on the forums for less time than me and you've made more than 3 times as many levels as I have. Just slow down and take your time, you don't need to release a big level pack in a small amount of time. I feel like you could have taken all the lesser levels out of this pack and still had a quality pack. But the fact that you've just thrown almost everything in and not even had this pack tested just shows that you probably wanted to throw out a big pack just for the sake of it.

Also I may be on the way out of this forum soon because apparently no one likes my easily angered temper anymore.

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh but apparently it's my day for telling things exactly as it is.

Best of luck to Arty with his LP, if you make it to the end of the pack, you'll get kudos from me for sure!

[Strato Incendus]

Hi Flopsy,

I think you're falling into a similar trap that I fell into repeatedly with regard to Nepster Lems - I accused Nepster of having designed overly-precise solutions for given levels ("Jump in the Ring", "Final Frustration"), when in reality, I simply hadn't figured out the correct solution yet. (So, sorry to Nepster from me at this point! )

First of all: All the levels you're talking about are there to teach the player about certain tricks - not to troll. That's why the pre-level text hints are there.

I'm going to make my comments visible for everyone, so as to prevent possible future frustration for other players - I'd rather have people know a bit about the solution than giving up entirely, so here we go:

Amateur 7 - why the hell is a Stoner bridge level like this going to be fun to play? I just ended up skipping over this one after a few minutes of trying to pass the vertical wall!

You do not have to create a long stairway of stoners all the way up to the vertical wall. You have to bomb through it at the bottom with a faller, then stone after the faller to make the drop survivable.

If you mean getting across the steel blocks at the bottom: That requires a total of one bomber and three stoners.

Have you played "Ten Story Stories and Tall Tales" from the Snack Pack? Or that vertical Sewer shaft level from CasuaLemmings? Those are levels with 50+ bombers or stoners. Amateur 7 is nothing.

The whole point of these early Amateur levels is to group skills by types and make solutions restricted around these (only upward-moving, only downward-moving, only creative, only destructive, only lethal, etc.) This is the same thing I've done in Pit Lems.

Amateur 13 - again, why is this radiation level going to be fun?

You got more than enough blockers to stop the radiation lemmings exactly at the point where you want them to stop. I use radiation because I want to limit the area where you can use bombers, compared to pickup skills which can be used anywhere in a level; I do not use it as a replacement for timed bombers.

Hence, there is nothing difficult execution-wise about this level. It is simply a radiation-based puzzle.

Pit Lems contained these as well, and two of them got nominated for level of the year. You ended up skipping over them, to my mind simply because they contained radiation. Well, they can't have been so bad, because someone considered them worthy of nomination - it certainly wasn't me! I myself was surprised about that, and it encouraged me to create further fair puzzles involving radiation, because that's something comparatively unexplored.

Amateur 16 - I complained about this exact trick being used in SubLems, it caused a controversial topic at the time and I don't see why this level should be spared being mentioned this time.

I think your main issue with this level is probably the glider-stoner combination, since you mentioned before that you hate those . The intended solution is to platform over the exit, then place several stoners directly on top of each other, creating a verticall wall the gliders inevitably bump against, no matter at which height they hit it, and turn around. Then you simply dig through the platform at the top over the exit, so that the floaters fall right into the exit and the gliders fall towards said wall.

All these levels in a small space of time was enough to eventually kill the LP, the last straw was seeing that Amateur 28 was called Zombie and I immediately quit the pack at this point.

Well, if you don't like Zombie levels, that's your right, but I don't see how this is a fault of the pack. Paralems was the only pack of mine that made extensive use of Zombies. All the others just use them sporadically.

and it looks like you spent too much time making the levels pretty and not enough time making quality solutions.

I think you missed the point of this pack. If you want something exclusively mechanically challenging, try Pit Lems (or Lemmicks ).

I said right from the getgo that Lemmings World Tour would be inspired by Arty's level building style, meaning "optics first".

If some of the "pretty" levels have dull solutions in your opinion, those may be backroutes?

Or does the difficulty simply not increase fast enough for you (since you suggested you could tolerate simplistic levels on Noisemaker but then expected a steeper increase)?

Because for Pit Lems, I basically got the feedback from nin10doadict that it got difficult too fast. So of course, with 240 levels in the main ranks, I can afford to have difficulty increase as gradually as possible.

But the fact that you've just thrown almost everything in and not even had this pack tested just shows that you probably wanted to throw out a big pack just for the sake of it.

The Encore levels are here because they are also song titles, and because many of them have been backroute-fixed since Paralems / Pit Lems / Lemmicks. Usually though, post-backroute-fixed levels don't get that much attention anymore, so that's why I wanted to showcase them again in their "fixed" versions .

The pack became this big because there were a lot of places I wanted to visit with levels. And even though I feared some of the pretty levels would turn out to have dull solutions, most of them actually ended up having pretty unique ones. Again, some of them may still have backroutes, you're never entirely safe from that.

Also I may be on the way out of this forum soon because apparently no one likes my easily angered temper anymore.

That's sad to hear .

For me personally, I can say I don't take it personally when people rage over my levels because they can't find the solution. I can also assure you at the same time that I don't actively try to make levels harder than necessary, least of all by intentionally introducing execution difficulty - I've learned my lesson from Paralems quickly in that regard . If unintended execution trouble arises, such as in Lemmicks's "Do not fear", I get rid of that as fast as I can. I try my best to be like a Dungeon Master in D&D when it comes to level design; I want to challenge the player, I don't want to beat them.



Replays for all mentioned levels are attached.

[Strato Incendus]

Just a question to you all, do the custom post-level jingles for success and failure work?

I've changed these to be real-instrument versions, too, so that they go along with the rest of the music. The victory jingle is a kind of fanfare played by the entire band; the failure jingle is a solitary guitar playing four sad chromatic single notes with a wah-wah .

To my knowledge, these should already be part of the pack (included in "files"). Therefore, I didn't include them again in the music download. I didn't hear them in Flopsy's or Arty's LP though, so I'm not sure if the files are missing or if Flopsy and Arty merely both have post-level jingles disabled by default .


Apart from that, here is the promised spoiler for the "Who's who?" of the Groupie rank . I'll also put it into the starting post, so that it can be found more easily.

Note that taking a look at these before having made an educated guess at who the level is inspired by is like watching a replay before having attempted a level yourself!

(But no, seriously, these spoilers will obviously also include at least partial spoilers for the level solutions themselves, so you might not want to look at all of them out of sheer curiosity ).

Groupie rank level list (click to show/hide)

Level 01: When the cat's away... (click to show/hide)

nin10doadict. His level "Yum Yums" was the first to really introduce me to Raymanni's Food tileset. Plus, I just wanted to make a level with a cat in a kitchen . Since nin10doadict was the first one to ever LP a pack of mine, the honour of opening the Groupie rank goes to him. Signature element, aside from the cat trap, obviously, is the compression method required at the end.

Level 02: That's a hard level that is! (click to show/hide)

Flopsy. Hence, it uses all of his graphic sets that were available at the time of the creation of this level in conjunction (Star Zone and Scrap Brain). Aside from being a standard Hard-for-Flopsy level with release rate 99 and Lemmings headed for immediate death, it also contains a glider-stoner combination at the beginning that's pretty whacky. I didn't know back then that glider-stoner stuff was another Hard-for-Flopsy trademark, though . It just happened, and now I'm glad it's in there, because it just fits perfectly! Also, back when I made this level, I didn't know yet either that Flopsy had made Hard-for-Flopsy levels himself in SEB Lems. So yeah, it's both a level "inspired by Flopsy" as well as "hated by Flopsy".
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 01"

Level 03: Waking up the neighbours (click to show/hide)

Proxima. Look to his post at the beginning of the thread, he basically outlined everything perfectly . "Waking up the neighbours" was chosen because a) Proxima means "the neighbour" in Latin, and b) because some of the lemming crowds can break into the neighbouring "rooms" / disjoint unions, creating a solution with the single chambers interacting with each other.

Level 04: Praise be to God! (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty. This level combines pretty much everything I wanted to put into it: A "Boss fight" level, as they appear at the end of each rank in SubLems; a level with a very small number of Lemmings (4); one that uses one of Arty's tilesets (Lego); one that requires two skills to pass through each other (digger and basher); and, finally, if you actually carry out that solution, guess what you get? A cross!
I combined Lego and Sky to create the "cliché image" of a God as a face in the Sky with a big white beard. And since "thou shalt not make for yourself an idol" - in German, people translate this as "you shall not make for yourself an image of God", i.e. don't try to imagine what he looks like - the level in itself also creates a great justification to destroy the landscape with bashers and diggers. These Lemmings aren't attacking God, you know; they're merely destroying an image that shouldn't have existed in the first place.
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 02"

Level 05: No true Scotslem (click to show/hide)

Nessy. Okay, I know he's not actually Scottish . But this level doesn't claim to be a true Scotsman, does it? It's a level pretending to have been made by Nessy, but that isn't the case. It only relies on the Mineshaft tileset, which Nessy made frequent use of in Lemmings Migration. Also, the intended solution uses the basher-blocker turnaround trick, which I had to use twice in Lemmings Migration - even though Nessy told me it isn't actually part of his intended solution in either of those levels. Additional elements are the usage of a builder to prevent a climber from going up to a lethal fall height, and using a miner tunnel in-creation to turn around a second lemming.
The title is a reference to the No true Scotsman-logical fallacy, where you dismiss a valid counter-example against a claim of yours. The original scenario goes like this:
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge."
Person B: "My uncle Angus is Scottish, and he does put sugar in his porridge."
Person A: "No true Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge!"
Little detail: The tripped-over mine cart in form of an additional, fake exit tilted sideways and spilling gold pieces on the terrain. That's a neat visual gimmick Nessy used in Lemmings Migration, which sadly won't be possible in New Formats anymore.

Level 06: Stacks and stones (click to show/hide)

Raymanni. Uses his Snow tileset because it looks the most Finnish . Signature element is the stacker-stoner combination, i.e. using a stacker to enable the crowd to six-pixel-jump over a stoner. I had just heard of this trick for the first time here on the forums right around the time when I picked up on playing Raylems again - and then, Raylems was nice enough to confront me with a snow level where I had to put it into practice right away.

Level 07: (K)itty compression (click to show/hide)

nin10doadict. Pretty much his level building style 1 on 1: LPIV Space tileset + Time limit + having to bash through a wall from two sides because of said time limit + compression method to get past lots and lots of kitties. The level is called (K)itty compression because nin10doadict's own cat is actually called Itty; she had several guest appearances during his LP of my Pit Lems pack. You can notice these whenever nin10doadict shouts "My Itts!" during the videos - hence the pre-level screen .
Meanwhile, nin10doadict does have his own graphic sets, i.e. Tetris Attack and Lava, but neither of these were available at the time of the creation of this level.

Level 08: Icho chambers (click to show/hide)

IchoTolot & Proxima. Go figure, right? This is not a level inspired by his level building style, though - instead, something IchoTolot explicitly mentioned he hates: Disjoint unions. I made the chambers interact with each other via the teleporters, because IchoTolot mentioned this as a possible redeeming quality for disjoint union levels in his eyes. That way, the level became more similar to Proxima's level building style again. Thinking about it, I could have made it more "IchoTolot rage-quits" by adding in hidden traps... But I didn't think about it back then, and the level is complicated enough in the fair version that it is now.

Level 09: Wrong. (click to show/hide)

Duuduu. If you pay close attention, you notice the dot after the level title. This is already the first signature thing, because Duuduu somehow likes to put a period in his level title lines. Also, his level titles tend to be - at least in my personal opinion, no offense - a bit generic; like, for example, "A normal level" from "A Master Degree in Lemmings", which was the main inspiration for this one (and is actually a pretty awesome and unique level , merely disguised by what I in this case believe to be an intentionally generic title). I just combined it with a bit of fiddly crowd control on very thin pieces of terrain, because that's something Flopsy noticed as a repeating element during his LP of "A Master Degree in Lemmings". And I used the Marble tileset, because this seems to be the one Duuduu used the most in said pack.

Level 10: Read my lips (click to show/hide)

Flopsy. Just in case you hadn't already noticed from the letters "SEB" placed clearly visible in the level. Or by, you know, the fact that I openly state this level is for Flopsy in the pre-level screen. This one was an easy choice, given the song title premise of Lemmings World Tour: Just go with a reasonably successful song by SEB that Flopsy hadn't used in SEB Lems himself. Then make a big and complex Marble level with some random pickup skills dispersed throughout it, similarly to Flopsy's "Crash Course" or "Tricks of the Trade" level series. Curious little detail: Notice how the "lips" in the level actually form the letters "S", "E", and "B" next to them!
I'm gonna refrain from spoiling who "SEB" is at this point, because that falls into the domain of SEB Lems itself. But obviously, if you just put the level title into YouTube, you're going to find out, anyway.

Level 11: Killed by death (click to show/hide)

SQron. The pre-text gives a hint about this by using several words containing the letters "SQ", which are all written as capital letters. And yeah, Motörhead's "Killed by death" actually starts with the line "If you squeeze my lizard, I put my snake on you".
Most of SQron's levels in the "Snack Pack" used Oh no! More Lemmings graphic sets, with Bubble being the most common one. Compression method also was used. I just made the debatable decision of going with the Rock chameleon trap - a) because of "squeeze my lizard", and b) because I wanted to sneak in a hint about "snacky Lemmings", referencing the Snack Pack. Little did I know back then that this was the fastest trap in the entire game! So you have to get a little creative with your compression methods; simply increasing the release rate won't cut it!
Also, at the end there are several of the chains from the ONML Brick tileset placed right next to each other, creating a very rapid upward staircase. This was also used in a Snack Pack level.

Level 12: Tin Limmings on this livel (click to show/hide)

namida. Tree-tileset + bombing climbers + lots of miner-builder interactions. Also the part in the beginning where you have to seal off a hole between two tree trunks with a builder before other lemmings fall in is taken from a Lemmings Plus level, "Just breathe".
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 03"

Level 13: You know you make me wanna shout (click to show/hide)

Nepster & Colorful Arty. This is my attempt at one of these "fine lines of terrain" mazes as they typically appear in the Marble tileset. The original version of this level took aeons to create, because of all the thin terrain pieces, and the solution was way too dull. So I threw that away in favour of something less microscopic with a more interesting solution. This one strays pretty far from its sources of inspiration, namely things like "Don't cross me" from NepsterLems and "Labyrinth of Lucifer" from SubLems. But I feel it benefitted the overall quality of this particular level.
The title should still tell you how I generally tend to feel about these visually confusing fine-line Marble mazes!

Level 14: Scot-free (click to show/hide)

Nessy. The Brick tileset is the other one frequently used in Lemmings Migration. Signature elements are building across a digger shaft to make the lemmings fall through facing only in one direction - like in "Dolly Dimple" from ONML, but Nessy required this e.g. in "Cringe comedy". Also, isolating a lemming from behind a crowd, building across a gap from two sides, and stopping the crowd by bombing next to a steel block are all things I did to solve "A bridge across the chasm" from Lemmings Migration.

Level 15: Take a Byte (click to show/hide)

Wafflemm. Not only does this level contain the mandatory myriad of buttons and pick-up skills; it also contains Wafflemm's forum avatar in some fashion. Since that iconic structure made from pipes from the Bubble tileset is supposed to simulate a waffle, I thought it would go best with the Food tileset. Wafflemm himself mentioned in a stream that the only thing the Food tileset was missing was waffles!
The title may be a reference to Lemming Bytes, obviously - which happens to go nicely with the Food tileset here - but actually, most of this level is inspired by Wafflemm's smaller pack, "WaffLems" (which I don't have, unfortunately; I only watched Flopsy's LP of it). There was one Beach level in particular where Lemmings fall from the hatch right into an animal trap, gliders have to be used to bypass it, and a reverse basher is needed to make a wall climbable.
Finally, Wafflemm has the habit of labeling his pre-skilled lemmings' hatches with two pickup skills on both sides, rather than one pickup skill above it. So this is another little detail you can guess it from - just in case the rest of the level didn't make it glaringly obvious to you yet .

Level 16: All for love (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty & nin10doadict. I wasn't able to solve Arty's level "Sniper range", so I looked up the solution in his own LP of SubLems... and thought: "Hey, this can be done with fencers as well!" So I came up with something in the Medieval graphic set, because fencers obviously go well with dragon traps, flavour-wise . The fact that you have an infinite amount of fencers though makes this one more akin to the Troll rank levels from nin10doadict's CasuaLemmings.
All for Love is the title song to a Three Musketeers movie, and since you have to unite a lot of Fencers, I thought this was an appropriate choice .

Level 17: I am E.T. (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty. This is pretty much a straight remake of his SubLems level "I am R.T.", which in itself is already a parody of the original Sunsoft level "I am A.T.". So it's basically a parody of a parody . But it is also a reference to the Retro rank of SubLems, of course, where Arty came up with new solutions to existing original Lemmings levels. It's just that I did the same thing to one of his levels now! In contrast to the Retro rank though, this level is a lot easier than the one it was inspired by, because you have to go the other way round.
Fun fact: I had to rebuild this level by hand, because Arty cleverly switched off the option to dump the level files in the main menu of SubLems. But with a rather regular terrain shape like this one, that wasn't enough to stop me!

Level 18: Le vent nous portera (click to show/hide)

Pieuw. PimoLems used degrees of wind intensity as rank names, and Pieuw is from France, so I needed a somewhat successful French song title refering to the wind in one way or another. The title means "The wind will carry us", and actually, that's quite fitting to the solution of the level, which requires a lemming to start building while another one is bashing through a wall, so that this basher simultaneously cuts off the staircase behind the builder, preventing the crowd from following. This is a pretty unique trick I learned in a Brick level from PimoLems, so I just had to go with that!

Level 19: All you zombies (click to show/hide)

Strato Incendus. Or can you imagine anyone else who likes Zombies and Slowfreeze? Yeah, this one was shameless self-aggrandising. It didn't start out as a Zombie- or Slowfreeze level, though: All I wanted to do was enforcing a Basher going down a Fencer tunnel. So I needed some way to re-obstruct that Fencer tunnel with terrain. Having a bunch of uncontrollable lemmings (Zombies) petrify inside that tunnel without the player wanting them to (Slowfreeze) was the best way I could come up with. Also, I wanted to exploit the fact that at a certain height of terrain under water, non-climber swimmers will dive under it while climber-swimmers will climb up.

Level 20: Bon appetit! (click to show/hide)

Pieuw, Colorful Arty, Wafflemm, Raymanni... Food levels aren't really anyone's exclusive signature thing. This is essentially a combination of all Food-relating structures I could find in various packs: The cheese from "Lemburger Cheese / This level stinks" and the cake from "Piece of cake! / Cakewalk" (Arty's SubLems), the lemonade from "Lemming Soda" (Pieuw's PimoLems), the before mentioned waffle and the Pillar-tileset Hamburger from "Lemburger" (Wafflemm's Lemmingbytes), the Food graphic set by Raymanni. I did recreate all the structures myself by hand, though, no copy-pasting from other people's levels... and so, I added in some pieces of my own, like the ice cream, the pizza, and the french fries . So now I've contributed my share to the pot-luck dinner party!

Level 21: Kiwi knights in white satin (click to show/hide)

Zanzindorf. Using his signature Kiwi knight tileset, this one requires two pioneer lemmings, as many of his levels do. Also, digging into a chamber to use it as a climber-turnaround facility is quite neat, plus sending a lemming up somewhere and bomb him as a faller to free the crowd.

Level 22: We are yung (click to show/hide)

Yung Gotenks. Signature elements are the abundance of walkers, platformers, and builders, plus the Hell graphic set, since Yung Gotenks made an entire pack consisting only of Hell levels... and the fact that the level overall is comparatively easy. No offense here! The way the pioneer lemming is isolated is a little tricky though, I took this from one of the more challenging levels from Yung Gotenks's packs, can't remember which one it was, though, unfortunately.
The title was really fitting, because the song "We are young" actually contains the line "so we set the world on fire", which goes nicely with the Hell tileset!

Level 23: The Earth Song (click to show/hide)

bulletride. Essentially a combination of the Lemmings Stampede levels "Deep Six" and "A walk in the park", this one requires the crowd to do something while a builder bridge is being built - because once the bridge is completed, it isn't possible to mine in the right spot anymore.

Level 24: Dove is in the air (click to show/hide)

Dodochacalo. DoveLems taught me this neat little trick of using several diggers to make some space, then use that space to build and close off a basher tunnel, making that basher the pioneer lemming. One of the most creative ways of crowd control I've come across so far! Enforcing it was a little difficult, though, I hope the fire traps at the top of the level are enough...
Also, forcing all lemmings of one crowd to become climbers is a thing in DoveLems, plus the idea of sealing a little gap between two walls to make them climbable. Though one of my levels in Lemmings World Tour also requires the same thing, only with a stacker.

Level 25: Part of ze Reunion (click to show/hide)

IchoTolot. I couldn't go with having only a "hate" level in here for IchoTolot, right? So first of all, this level obviously uses IchoTolot's City tileset, which I've made great use of for creating all the geographical locations here in Lemmings World Tour. But there's also a neat little trick I learned from IchoTolot, and that is the fact that a digger who is digging so far at the edge of a piece of terrain that there actually isn't any ground beneath his centre can be cancelled by assigning a blocker to him. The only way to make a digger dig so far at the edge though is to place a builder or platformer there first, and then start digging while the lemming is halfway on that bridge. Additionally, the way the crowd has to be controlled here is fairly common in Lemmings Reunion, to my mind. Finally, what I did to namida, I can't spare IchoTolot from: Pronouncing "th" like "z" is a thing typical of many Germans when speaking English .
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 04"

Level 26: Clam-a-Lem-a Ding Dong (click to show/hide)

Clam. Apart from the Beach tileset, a thing that's very common in Clammings is vertical scrolling. Few other content creators use it that frequently. This level isn't very complicated, mainly because I haven't gotten too far on Clammings yet - I've played through most of the 10-of-everything levels, and most of the slightly complex levels are already complex enough to stomp me . But this one is slightly inspired by "Bucket list", and makes use of several NeoLemmix skills that Clam has used quite often in his pack (platformers and stoners, namely).

Level 27: Deceit and destruction (click to show/hide)

Deceit. I couldn't really come up with a better name here: What I wanted to hint at is that Deceit's Lemmings contains a lot of levels relying on destructive skills, oftentimes intentionally not providing any creative skills at all, or only so few of them that you only have enough for the bare necessities, i.e. gaps. Every other obstacle has to be overcome by some creative combination of destructive skills. I was pretty impressed by that, so I hope I was able to recreate it somewhat successfully...!

Level 28: Hiroshima (click to show/hide)

GigaLem. Freedom planet graphic set + Zombies + Radiation. With Resident GigaLemmings, there is an entire pack dedicated to Zombies, the only one in this fashion I know of, apart from namida's original Doomsday Lemmings, of course. Radiation appeared in the Millas pack, but mostly in the fair form that I have come to use as well, i.e. providing you with enough blockers to stop the radiant lemmings, and only using radiation in the first place in order to limit the area where the bombing can occur. This one is fairly far away from its source of inspiration, though; I really wanted to have this place and song in here, so that there would be a famous song refering to Japan. And the Freedom planet tilesets look Japanese, especially the Dragon one, with these iconic trees.
By the way: This one was the very last level in the pack I finished. And I hated every second of it. Not because of the execution, though; I just had such a hard time coming up with something creative here! Also, the terrain had to be adjusted quite a lot to give one of the pioneer lemmings enough time to escape from the zombies... the radiation actually wasn't the issue here, but Zombies are moving objects as well, after all. But now, everything works fine, and the player shouldn't face any execution trouble with this level.

Level 29: Every Geoff you take (click to show/hide)

Geoffster. Signature visual element is the steel boat at the bottom, with the side scuttles. Signature mechanic is the necessity to use a turned-around builder to gain 1 pixel in height and get over a wall. The second part of the level was inspired by "Planks", as well as its rerun.

Level 30: Joga (click to show/hide)

Mobius / Call me Bronco. Originally, I wanted to name the level "Call on me, Bronco", referring to the song "Call on me" made famous by Eric Prydz. But then, I read about mobius's hobby of meditation, and thought, fine, let's make the level refer to East Asian practices instead . An alternate contender for the level title was "Occidentali's Karma", a song by Italian singer Francesco Gabbani from last year about how modern Westerners pick up Eastern customs. But it's pretty much only known inside the Eurovision Song Contest crowd. So I went with this much more famous song by Icelandic singer Björk instead.
Signature elements are the double-duty use of a builder initially required to seal off a water pond, with that builder also being required as part of the path for the later solution. Also, the way to isolate the pioneer lemming here is something I've learned exclusively from mobius: Placing a reverse staircase under the hatch, so that all lemmings go to the left, and then using the last lemming from the hatch (who's still facing to the right) to build the second staircase.
Little visual element: Notice the "torches" that you typically find on top of exits, placed as separate objects everywhere in the level. This is a thing Mobius frequently does, which will sadly disappear, too, in case of a New Formats conversion.

Level 31: Ya ochen rad... (click to show/hide)

GigaLem. The full title of this Russian song is "Ya ochen rad, ved ya, nakonets, vozvraschayus domoy", translating to "I am very glad, as I'm finally returning back home". But you all know it under a different title . Yes, folks, it is the Trololo song! And it was chosen because GigaLem's first pack, GigaLems, contained a lot of troll elements - not only hidden traps, which is annoying because that pack is only playable in NeoLemmix 1.43, i.e. without clear physics mode - but also exits covered in bricks, which look like normal exits, though. This particular visual trick only works with the Marble tileset. Also, GigaLems contains a lot of levels where you have to get something done before the crowd arrives, meanwhile that crowd goes on an odyssee across a long path of terrain to give you a little more time.

Level 32: Fernando (click to show/hide)

Alberto Fernandes. His pack "Be smart!" contains lots of random flags, as used in the original two-player levels, placed throughout the levels. Also a lot of steel. On top of that, most of his levels require just a tiny bit of ever-so-slight vertical scrolling. So I literally built than in here, too, just for the sake of it.

Level 33: We don't need another hero (click to show/hide)

Deceit. Yeah, Deceit's Lemmings also happens to contain a lot of very innovative Hero levels, i.e. one of every classic skill, like in the original level "It's hero time!" Since this refers to the skill set, I obviously couldn't combine it with Deceit's other trademark of emphasizing destructive skills so much. So he earned himself two levels in the rank!

Level 34: I see fire (click to show/hide)

kieranmillar. The beginning is something I came up with myself, that happened to turn out more challenging than expected in a pleasantly surprising way. The actual signature trick comes at the end: Here you need to free a blocker by bombing another lemming right next to him, so that a third lemming turns around and falls into the bomber pit, from which he can then start bashing to go underneath a bunch of fire traps. You can't do this from the other side, lest the crowd would walk up into the fire traps while bashing.
So yeah, you don't want your lemmings to see fire, obviously. But the title also enabled me to put the hint about the level inspiration into the author line for the first time! (The level is credited to "Ed Kieran".)

Level 35: Fly me to the moon (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty. I think this makes Arty the user with the most dedicated levels in this rank. Which is kind of deserved, given that his level design overall inspired huge portions of this pack - and that he showed interest in LPing it early on! This particular level, however... is not necessarily a reason for celebration. I knew about this trick, but I didn't think of it as one of Arty's signature things until I got to the Hellish rank of SubLems, where you have to do this nasty flying builder-stuff twice. I couldn't fit it into any of the other Arty levels, so you earned yourself an additional level here - but I'm most certainly not a fan of this trick!
In the end, to make it a little more Arty-like, I made it more artistic by combining different tilesets again, with clouds from Sky and the moon from the Polar tileset. Also, there's an invisible exit, as they appear several times in SubLems. Just like in SubLems though, it should be pretty obvious where it is - as if the title didn't provide enough of a hint .

Level 36: What does the fox say? (click to show/hide)

Gronkling. A lot of people seem to expect Lemmings Evolution to be one of the hardest packs ever, possibly topping NepsterLems in that regard. While the first five demo levels didn't stomp me as much as I expected - I was able to solve four out of five of them - every single one of them contained very distinctive signature tricks. Making miners go through with builders is already the most "mainstream" of them; using a miner to free a crowd from a digger shaft so that they only come out facing in one direction, and at the same time turning that miner around by hitting steel, that's some nice double-duty usage right there! Also, at the beginning the similarly obscure double-builder turnaround is required (taught in the Noisemaker rank, though ). I went with Gronkling's highly requested Minimal tileset here, which he originally planned to release as a rewards-only thing. Anyways, for all these reasons, it was pretty certain that this level would have to come very late in the Groupie rank. I don't know if it's indeed one of the most difficult ones, but it's certainly very complex, with lots of different stages going on.

Level 37: Johnny B. Goode (click to show/hide)

bsmith. Hence the name, a famous song including a separate "B". I also could have gone with "Sloop John B" . A recurring thing I noticed in bsmith's level pack is original Lemmings levels remade in a different tileset - in this case, I went with "Builders will help you here" and made it a Brick level. But obviously, the solution is completely different.

Level 38: A Mazu Grace (click to show/hide)

Martin Zurlinden. I noticed that MazuLems contains a lot of snow levels, even though the core premise of this level is taken from a Rock level, where several climbers have to work together to put builders in different spots in the most ergonomically efficient way.

Level 39: Not the incended solution (click to show/hide)

Strato Incendus. For the penultimate level, I played the reverse game and threw together everything that other people had identified as my signature level design elements. In fact, nin10doadict's level "Super Mecha Death Gators" from CasuaLemmings is what got the whole idea to the Groupie rank started, where he took my main idea of spiced-up animal traps and developed it further. So now I did the same thing with another animal trap. Also, there's a skeletal alien creature somewhat reminiscent of my "Death Titan", a level which many people seem to have enjoyed in Paralems, even though I myself considered the solution pretty lame. That alien creature breathes fire and has lightning traps in its eyes, so don't try shortcutting here! Other things I like to do frequently is enforcing swimmer usage to platform over a pont from the opposing side; using stoners as stepping stones for builders under low ceilings; and having a digger pay double-duty to lower a lemming's position and turn around the crowd. This trick proved to be very successful in my Pit Lems "Curse Level", @!#*§$%/!
Finally, I don't know whether backroutes can be considered a signature element of mine, but since I like to test my packs "in the field", probably so? Well, the name just asked for this stupid pun in the level title...

Level 40: The Grand Puzzle (click to show/hide)

Nepster. This is my attempt at recreating a Final Frustration-like experience. Signature elements are the 20-of-everything skill set with only classic skills, plus the several crowds you have to unite - plus the fact that from all the skills you have, builders are the one you are most likely going to run out of. Also, there's a structure which actually consists of Dirt tileset pieces, but which goes very well with the Pillar tileset: The "Diagonal disarray" from the level with that same title from NepsterLems.
I know Nepster doesn't consider Final Frustration one of his best levels, nor even one most representative of his level building style. But it remains a fact that X-of-everything levels are a very common thing in NepsterLems, and I've built other Nepster-style levels in the past, such as "You had it coming" from Pit Lems.
Nepster's levels were outlined to me by IchoTolot during my early days here in the forum as the prime example of fair difficulty, the epitome of the "puzzle" ideal the NeoLemmix community strives for. Hence the title.
This level is simply put the most challenging resource conservation-level I could come up with. I don't know if it's possible to save everyone here, as it is required on Final Frustration - I had to use one blocker facing in the wrong direction, so I couldn't free him anymore later. Hence, you have to save all but one.
But if anyone finds a 100% solution, please inform me! I would make that a Gold Talisman for sure!

[Strato Incendus]

Okay, I've tried it on my brother's PC, the post level jingles worked, even though I hadn't given these files to him separately (only the music tracks for the levels).

I've uploaded a first small update of the pack (check the link in the starting post), with three backroutes found by namida in the Groupie rank fixed . I had to alter the intended solution on two of them, but that's fine, since in one of the two cases, the trick required by the intended solution isn't actually a signature trademark of the respective user.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As mentioned in the Groupie rank level list, the basher-blocker turnaround trick according to Nessy isn't part of any of his intended solutions in Lemmings Migration. So it makes sense that this trick disappeared from the one of his signature levels where it was "required" before. Technically, it never was required there either, because the attempt to enforce that trick made the level more backroute-able.

I also made some cosmetic changes to Groupie 12 that do not affect the solution at all...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...following namida's written instructions. The web at the top has been removed, the green ropes slightly altered in shape, and the one-way arrows now span the entire piece of terrain they are supposed to affect. I wasn't sure whether the latter would affect the solution at first, but no, it shouldn't.

[Strato Incendus]

Next update! Thanks to Flopsy's mass upload of LP videos today, I was able to fix a couple of backroutes in the Noisemaker rank. Most of them weren't too dramatic, but it's always better get rid of them as early as possible .

Also, some of the Talismans didn't have their criteria set properly, these are fixed now as well.

The link is still the one in the starting post (or my signature).

Changelog (click to show/hide)

Noisemaker 08, Glide and Joy: I was fine with Arty's alternative solution, but when Flopsy did the same thing plus saved a bunch of skills, I decided to add some steel at the edge indeed. Also removed a builder and the swimmer, the latter one was entirely superfluous. Now, the glider is a necessity to solve the level - which is kind of the point of the title .

Noisemaker 14, Digital world: Steel added to enforce digger usage a little more and prevent fencer shortcuts.

Noisemaker 17, How to save a life: Yet more steel and made the cloner a pickup skill.

Noisemaker 19, Lemming, I hardly knew ya!: Little block of steel added to prevent a backroute using only the top part.

Noisemaker 20, Flight of the bumblebee: Flopsy's solution used all the builders, but skipped the main trick this level is supposed to teach. Terrain on the left was moved further to the left, the level of the water was raised, and a long vine was added on the right to enforce a digger.

Noisemaker 25, Bash to you: Added steel and one-way arrows.

Noisemaker 29, Behind blue eyes: Added steel.

Noisemaker 35, While my Lemming gently builds: No backroute here; I just added a piece of terrain to make it more clear that the climber won't splat. You're welcome!

Noisemaker 36, Pull me under: Here is a backroute I found myself. I had to invert the hatches to create a ceiling low enough that it's not possible to build over a blocker. Looks really silly now, and inverted hatches won't work in New Formats, but it's the best I could come up with for the time being .

Noisemaker 37, Running up that hill: There was nothing urgent to fix here, I just added some steel to push a little more towards my exact intended solution.

Amateur 05, Sugar Baby Lem: Just a cosmetic change, there was a one-pixel gap somewhere that didn't affect the solution at all.

Amateur 06, Cliffs of Dover: Bumped up the release rate to prevent a timing- and stalling-based solution.

[Strato Incendus]

I've finished watching Flopsy's LP, so here are some summarising thoughts. I've also attached the replays of other levels Flopsy struggled with (=skipped or genuinely couldn't solve).

Again, thanks a lot for playing this far, Flopsy, and for sharing all these videos so quickly! The fact that you "only" got to 3/4 of rank two can easily disguise that you still played an entire 68 levels of this thing, which is more than some other packs have in total. (I'm still stuck somewhere on rank three of SEB Lems, just F.Y.I. ...)

On Flopsy's LP (click to show/hide)

Let's start out with the part of his criticism that I feel is warranted:

Noisemaker 15 (Octopus's garden) does indeed sacrifice a bit of game fairness for visual aesthetics: The fact that there are traps under the terrain forming the octopus's arms may turn off some people right away, but in combination with the updraft-water, the triggers of these traps become effectively invisible even in clear physics mode. This affects the planning of the solution here more strongly than on the last level where this happened, "Dark fate of Atlantis" from Paralems, where it just means having to place a single bomber.
This level is counter-intuitive already, because the "water" in the underwater tileset, as you know, does not behave like water, but like an updraft. That is something the player is informed about by the pre-level screen, but it only solves part of the problem. I can't leave out the updraft, though, because not only would the octopus floating in free air look dumb, but also the lemmings would splat.
So I have no idea on how to improve this for the time being. Fortunately though, all these "player-expectation subverting elements" are combined in the same landscape, meaning together with the underwater tileset. There is a rerun of this level, but those two are the only ones where the underwater tileset, and thereby the water-updraft that cloaks trigger areas, are used at all in the entire pack.

Amateur 14 (Meet me halfway) is a little fiddly to pull off. But it looks cool when it works out, and I see no other or more concise way of teaching a new player that destructive skills can pass through each other.

While I had been worrying that the Amateur rank might have been too easy for Flopsy - since he mentioned a non-sufficient rise in difficulty from rank 1 to 2 - I was pleasantly surprised to see that most of the early Amateur levels did indeed seem to make him think more than the Noisemaker levels.

So the difficulty does indeed seem to rise from Noisemaker to Amateur, just as intended !

For the rest of the levels that made Flopsy angry, I have to say that most of this was self-inflicted .

Hell's bells (see attachment): Flopsy made a small but decisive conceptual mistake: The Walker isn't supposed to cancel the Basher at the end. The Basher must finish on its own by removing all the terrain, then the Walker can be used to simply turn him around. Flopsy put a lot of time into trying to execute a solution that might work as well, but is a lot more fiddly, and neither intended nor necessary. Self-inflicted pixel precision here.

It's a long way to the top (see attachment): Flopsy almost had the correct solution in mind - just the wrong way round.

Join me in death: Same trick used here as on Paralems's "A staircase of skulls": Bomb into the ground, then you can place a stoner in the bomber pit and the lemmings can walk up comfortably. Two more stoners are required to get up the steel block. So the supposed "stoner staircase" that Flopsy criticised is a grand total of three stoners long. I think that's tolerable .

Ayo Technology: Flopsy almost had the solution here: Take the last lemming of the crowd, let the rest fall down safely using stoners, close the gap with a platformer. Then it's just a matter of repeatedly cloning those lemmings at the top to have them walk into the radiation, and make them stop with the blockers at will.

Slide it in: This level could profit from having gliders and floaters pre-assigned. Through delayed assignment, as taught by the preceding level "Shatter me", one can circumvent the necessity to create a stoner wall to turn the gliders around.

Tears in Heaven: Yeah, he simply didn't find the solution here. The right crowd needs to do the majority of the work.

General conclusion for all players:

- If it's way too easy, and you manage to save a lot of skills, it's probably a backroute .
- If it's too easy, but uses exactly all the skills, you probably already know the trick the level was supposed to teach. Good for you!
- If it's extremely fiddly and therefore annoying to pull off, while it doesn't necessarily have to be a backroute, it's certainly not the main intended solution. So in those cases, you may want to consider going back to the drawing board.

[Strato Incendus]

Next major, major update! Can't believe it's only been 10 days, but I thought I better get this done early.

Check the link in the starting post, or get it from here.

This barely has anything to do with Arty's LP; most of what he and Flopsy did in the late Noisemaker rank was as intended, and in Flopsy's LP of the Amateur rank, there were hardly any backroutes at all.

But I've found some further backroutes myself in the later ranks - levels which will take some time until Arty gets there - by actively trying to break the levels. Everything I've found in that regard has been removed now .

One level in particular got an emergency treatment with buttons. I think this may also be the way to finally fix the ever-broken level "Crossing the Nile" from Pit Lems.

Changelog (click to show/hide)

Noisemaker 36, "Pull me under": The terrain was flattened to make the execution easier, as well as to prevent freeing the blocker with a single basher alone. I chose to keep it normal terrain rather than steel - to allow for Arty's awesome alternative solution!
Noisemaker 37, "Running up that hill": Added in a floater just for cosmetic purposes to make this a 1-of-everything level .
Noisemaker 38, "Rock, Paper, Scissors": Hate to break it to you, but I had to break your solutions because they were breaking the level . Flopsy and Arty both did the same alternative approach, and while it's not a backroute and a great solution in and of itself, it has the option of bypassing the main trick this level is supposed to teach. I had to put steel into the trees to enforce this trick.

No further changes to the Amateur or Professional rank since the last version!

Diva 05, "All the single Lemmings": Fixed the fire traps and added a useless bomber for cosmetic purposes, again to make this a 1-of-everything level.
Diva 06, "Diggas in Paris": Because this is a Paralems repeat, the time limit was still enabled. Since it wasn't relevant to the solution, it got removed from the Lemmings World Tour version now.
Diva 08, "Dragostea din tei": Made some of the pickup skills overwrite so that they are more easily visible.
Diva 20, "Only time": The top red stripe of the US flag was missing, apparently I forgot to select it correctly wherever I copied it from. Fixed now!
Diva 22, "Wrecking ball": The fire traps weren't completely touching the ground here, too. Even though they shouldn't really be relevant to the solution, I've fixed them now, just to be on the safe side.

Rockstar 04, "Staying alive": Adjusted the save requirement to factor in the cloner. I have learnt my lesson from Pit Lems, as far as cloners are concerned, but apparently I forgot it here again .
Rockstar 14, "Boulevard of Broken Lems": A spontaneous epiphany made me remove a fencer here, which should make this level a lot more difficult!
Rockstar 24, "I'd do anything for Lems": Made the steel go all the way through, again just to be on the safe side.
Rockstar 28, "Berlin": This is the one that had to have the buttons inserted, because otherwise you could just trap the crowd in a digger pit and build a long staircase to the left.
Rockstar 32, "Engel": Removed the excess diggers to make the methods of crowd control in this level a little more various .
Rockstar 37, "I'm your Venus": Put some fire traps on top of the mountain - partly to make it look like a volcano, partly as a precaution, in case someone wants to try going along the bottom. No one shall walk on the surface of Venus! Lemmings has to be realistic, right?

Legend 03, "We can be heroes": Removed the excess digger. The intended solution included it, but only for something that looked cool without actually being necessary. Now there's an equal number of each skill.
Legend 05, "Hallelujah": Fixed misplaced terrain, there was a hole in that chair.
Legend 09, "Eye of the tiger": Added one-way arrows to prevent bashing towards the exit from the right.
Legend 17, "Y. Lem C. A.": Put one-way arrows across the big lemming's face so that the altitude where you're supposed to bash in the opposite direction can only be reached by a climber.
Legend 23, "Wish you were here": Removed a builder and added a stacker + basher instead.
Legend 29, "Africa": It was painful to dissolve that wonderful 1-of-everything pattern here, but the cloner made one specific aspect about the level way too easy. Now you simply have two climbers, rather than being able to clone the climber.
Legend 30, "Knocking on Heaven's door": Exchanged the exit button for one from namida's Metal tileset to make it more easily visible, i.e. for gameplay reasons; exchanged the background for GigaLem's Metal tileset cloud background for artistic reasons.
Legend 35, "Scarborough Fair": Added the Union Jack!
Legend 39, "I will always love Lemmings": Removed all stackers except for 1 because they were redundant.
Legend 40, "The Time of my Life": Removed a platformer because it was redundant.

No further changes to the Encore or Groupie rank since the last version!

[Strato Incendus]

The next update (10-19-2018) brings a couple of fixes to the Amateur rank (since there weren't any in the last update), as well as a couple of new talismans!

These were made from solutions Flopsy and Arty found that were superior to mine, so thanks, you two, for finding these!

The link in the starting post works, too, as usual .

Changelog (click to show/hide)

Noisemaker 21, "Rainbow in the dark": Some skills had to be turned into pickup skills in order not to be used too early in the level and thereby bypassing the main trick. Also, one-way arrows next to the exit prevent shortcutting from the left.

Noisemaker 26, "Don't stop me now": Builder made a pickup skill to enforce the main trick.

Noisemaker 29, "Behind blue eyes": Yet more steel + widened the water pond to make sure all skills have to be used.

Amateur 04, "Stairway to Heaven": Added upward arrows to prevent mining and enforce fencing in one specific place.

Amateur 14, "Meet me halfway": The terrain at the top has been flattened to improve the execution of timing this correctly. Also, a talisman for saving everyone has been added, after Arty invested so much time into attempting this - even if this attempt actually just resulted from overlooking the saving requirement...

Amateur 16, "Slide it in": Implemented the previously anounced change to make the lemmings either floaters or gliders right out of the hatch.

Amateur 18, "Tears in Heaven": Added steel to prevent bashing into the chamber with the exit, rather than mining.

Amateur 23, "Fields of gold": A single hexagon has been made steel.

Amateur 24, "Wonderwall": Added a fire trap to prevent digging down all the way to the steel to stop the digger. Then made the blocker and 1 digger pickup skills to prevent cancelling the digger with a second digger (as taught before! ) or turning him around while digging with a blocker (though that is also a nice trick that I actually forgot to turn into a Noisemaker level! ).

Amateur 25, "Radioactive": Basher made a pickup skill.

Amateur 26, "Like ice in the sunshine": Upward arrows added. May still not be entirely backroute-proof, though.

Amateur 31, "The Great Level of Indifference": Added a firetrap to prevent a semi-shortcut.

Amateur 32, "Ich und mein Holz": Downward arrows on one block, steel through the horizontal pillar.

Amateur 35, "Black Polished Chrome": Put downward arrows on the synagogue to prevent simply bashing through it.

Amateur 36, "Walk this way": Flattened the terrain around the exit to enforce the more obscure solution. The width of the water had to be slightly adjusted to go along with this. This level should now be quite a bit more difficult, but it got this position on the basis of the difficulty of the intended solution anyway, so I hope this is fine.

Amateur 39, "Japan": Added just 1 tiny bit of steel to the second mast, so that both of the masts have to be bombed through, rather than going underneath. Before you only had to bomb through the first one.

Amateur 40, "God gave Rock 'n Roll to you": A bit of steel to prevent the crowd from going over the top piano keys.

Groupie 25, "Part of the Reunion": Has been renamed to "Part of ze Reunion" , raising the "poking fun at how people talk-count" to 04. Sorry, but I have to be even handed in this regard!

[Strato Incendus]

I felt the change to Amateur 14 was important enough to get it done right away, so I've changed the update date from yesterday to today, only changing that single level and adding the "save everyone"-talisman.

To be fair though, this is one of the most difficult talismans in the game now, so blame Arty for finding it !

[Strato Incendus]

Just a general note to everyone: Don't feel rushed to "re-solve" levels where a backroute fix on my part might cause your replays not to work anymore. Your savegame file still remembers the level as solved, and that is also my philosophy: Anyone who solved a level in the state it was in when they first attempted it has beaten me at some point in time - be it entirely through own skill or partly because of my own stupidity !

I simply advise people to update whenever a new version comes out and then continue playing where they left off, just in that new version. That raises the chance of the levels still following being more backroute-proof, and thereby more enjoyable! No need though to go back and constantly recheck whether everything is still working!  With 40 levels per rank, that's just nuts!

I noticed only recently that a lot of my old SEB Lems replays were broken, and I resolved those levels now, but I still focus mainly on getting ahead in the pack.

I'm constantly refining Lemmings World Tour, like IchoTolot has been fixing PimoLems right after each of Nessy's streams. Given the unusually large size of the pack, I didn't want to wait until the end of an LP before I started fixing the first backroutes and thereby leave all those levels "vulnerable" in the meantime.

I also guess I'm going to see some familiar backroutes again in the second half of the Amateur rank of Arty's LP - hopefully only stuff I have fixed in the meantime already. But that is only going to underline how badly these fixes were needed! Apparently there's even going to be one episde where all five levels appearing in that video are broken, so... bring it on!

[607]

Hello, did you copy the track so it played twice or did you play everything twice yourself? If the first case is true, why did you copy it at all, and not stick with one loop?

[Strato Incendus]

Oh, I played everything a lot more often than twice, I just combined the best takes!

So no, it's not like you're hearing the same thing twice ; on a lot of tracks, some things change in the second half. On ONML 01, I alter the guitar melody slightly, ONML 02 features a slightly different solo, the Can-Can is played higher the second time, so is Rondo Alla Turca, the second half of Smile if you love Lemmings contains the guitar solo throw-ins, and so on .

[607]

Thanks! I'm putting the music on my phone, and when I do video game music, I fade out after the first loop. But I thought here the second part might actually be different... I just couldn't tell for sure anywhere.

[Strato Incendus]

At last, here's the update with Arty's backroutes up to the end of the Diva rank fixed!

Click me or the link in the starting post

I haven't received any further replays - so I guess people either stopped playing because it's Old Formats, or because Arty's LP was so entertaining to watch that they'd rather watch that instead ^^, and now they already know all the solutions.

Well, not anymore, because now most of the backroutes that Arty found shouldn't be possible anymore!

I think there were like 1 or 2 levels with so whacky intended solutions that I couldn't yet figure out who to enforce them, and so I just didn't bother. But the majority should be cleaned up now - even though that usually only means "time to look for a new backroute to the same level"...

[Strato Incendus]

Here's a little update regarding the conversion of Lemmings World Tour to New Formats:

I have converted the entire pack using the pack converter and am now in the process of fixing the single levels (Noisemaker, Amateur, and Professional are done so far).

This mainly refers to inserting the proper backgrounds again, as they got lost during the conversion, despite being available in both formats (I reported this as a bug). Fortunately, I don't have to do this for every single level - in that case, I probably would have waited for a bug fix first - but only for those that don't have a monochrome background. For those levels which do, including everything that simply has a mono-black background, no changes are necessary in that regard.

The other main thing is adding ceilings in the cases where it's relevant, because the deadly ceiling in New Formats obviously destroyed some solutions.
To avoid confusion, I'm doing this in the Old-Formats levels and then re-convert those single levels by opening them up in the New Formats editor.

That way, even if you (continue to) play the Old-Formats version, you won't get confused about whether the ceiling is solid or not, because in all cases where it's relevant, there's terrain covering the ceiling now, and this will be the case in both versions.

It may affect the timing of the solutions in your Old-Formats replays, though, because I always placed the ceiling in such a way that it's visible to the player, obviously, therefore, a lemming who hit the level border before is now going to drop down 1-2 frames earlier.



Finally, there's the elephant in the room, which are the radiation- and slowfreeze levels.

The biggest challenge will be adapting those levels where zombies had to walk into radiation / slowfreeze. Those are "Only time" from the Diva rank, "Blowing in the wind" from the legend rank, and "All you zombies" from the Groupie rank. Since zombies can't collect pickup skills like they used to do as "classic zombies", nor do we have the instant-pickup-skill gimmick anymore, there's no way of having specific spots in the landscape automatically give skills to zombies. The worst case would be to cut these levels entirely. There will not be any dedicated replacement levels that would become exclusive to New Formats; LWT was created for Old Formats, and the New-Formats version is merely trying to be as accurate of a representation of this pack as possible.

For regular radiation / slowfreeze levels, in some cases, there was an easy enough fix by simply replacing radiation and/or blocker pickup skills with exploder pickup skills (e.g. Amateur 13, "Ayo Technology", and Amateur 25, "Radioactive").

In other cases, it's more difficult, because the skill panel was already full with radiation / slowfreeze in place.

For example, I can re-create the solution of Amateur 26, "Like ice in the sunshine", easily by replacing the slowfreeze with a stoner pickup skill - the only problem is: The level was a 1-of-everything level before, and there's no space (yet) on the skill panel to add a 9th skill.

This also affects Amateur 39, "Japan", which is one of my favourite levels in the pack, and was praised by Arty as one of the few radiation levels he actually enjoyed .

Thus, I think it's safe to say the New Formats conversion of LWT won't be released before the NeoLemmix update enabling the level creator to have up to 10 different skills.

This is kind of the ideal redemption for the removal of radiation and slowfreeze at this point, because while the Shimmier was what gave me enough of an incentive to transition to New Formats completely as far as creation of new levels is concerned, I didn't want to include any Shimmier levels in LWT at such a late stage, because that would have meant casually introducing the skill in the middle of a rank while everything else has had proper introduction levels.

Simply having more skills however is nothing that needs a lot of additional explanation. I wonder how many players would even notice if I didn't bring it up on the level preview screen!


Some of the aesthetics will change as well, few of them because I want them to, but some objects (certain exits, teleporters, differently shaded terrain pieces etc.) and backgrounds that I used are simply not available anymore in New Formats (as of now, at least). Since we're not supposed to add stuff to other people's tilesets, those levels can only be given their original look again if those pieces are re-added. To be clear, this is nothing that will make me put a New-Formats release on halt, but I still hope I can restore the original look of the pack again eventually.

A huge upside of the New Formats version, though: As namida and Nepster told me during the early days of New-Formats development, the graphic-set performance has improved immensely! The worst part was converting all the graphic sets that had been missing or incomplete. But so far, I haven't experienced any crashes related to heavy graphic-set mixing yet!


Nevertheless, since LWT was created for Old Formats, I'm going to continue maintaining it for both Old- and New Formats!

This is likely going to be the only pack for which any content creator is doing this, but for me it simply means I do any backroute fixes in the Old-Formats version first and then re-convert that single level by opening it in the New-Formats editor.

[Strato Incendus]

I've updated the Old-Formats version so that it features all the changes that are going to occur in the New-Formats version (except for the Radiation and Slowfreeze levels, of course, which are always going to remain intact in Old Formats! ).

One level had a cosmetic change - I've finally decided to go ahead and re-colour the flower traps from the L2 Highland tileset to match the title of this level / song (="White Roses from Athens"):


Weiße Rosen aus Athen

These white re-coloured flower traps are now part of my general tileset (the one that features Arty's rain and snow objects, as well as the blue fire traps in Old Formats).
Thus, when you re-download the updated pack from the starting post, also re-download the styles folder! You only need to extract the "general.dat" graphic set into your 10.13 styles folder, though, nothing else has changed.

I've also converted the white flower trap to New Formats right away, where it will be going under my strato_generalmd tileset. A former version of it is already available for the Lemmings Open Air test levels; the one including the white flowers will be uploaded together with the New-Formats release of Lemmings World Tour.

That said, the New-Formats release is indeed ready for release! I'm just not sure whether I should wait until the stable version 12.7? That's what I understood from namida.

[namida]

I'm just not sure whether I should wait until the stable version 12.7? That's what I understood from namida.

If your pack works on V12.6.5, you can release it now. If it only works on V12.7 (eg. you've run it through the "Cleanse Levels" or are using V12.7-exclusive features like antisplat pads, etc), please wait until the V12.7 stable release, although a private release to testers should be fine.

(Of course, this is purely advisory - I can't stop you from releasing a V12.7.0-RC version of the pack if you want, I just advise against it, especially if you don't plan to double-check everything against the stable version as soon as possible after its release.)

[Strato Incendus]

Great, thanks for the explanation, namida!

You guys can expect the release this evening (Central European Time) - I have all the levels in my Dropbox already, but not the updated strato_generalmd tileset with the white flowers yet. I might also alter the logo slightly (call it "Lemmings World Tour Remastered" or so ), to indicate that some levels indeed differ from their Old-Formats versions and have different solutions now.

Weekends seem like an appropriate time to release packs anyway , that means more people have the chance to try them right away!

[Strato Incendus]

Professional 21, "The lion sleeps tonight" has received an emergency fix to finally make it slightly more difficult (maximum release rate plus an additional cat trap).

It's still quite easy for its position, but now you have to at least slightly think about which skill goes where, and practice the ever so slightest form of flow control. I hope it's really just enough to move it from a completely pathetic level to something that can at least be considered "somewhat nice".

Download links are still the same.

[Strato Incendus]

A small update containing backroute fixes to Professional 07, "Holy diver", Professional 08, "Blocking all over the world", and Professional 20, "Rome". Link is still the one in the starting post.

Thanks to IchoTolot for finding these!

[Strato Incendus]

The next update at last! Fixes to four levels for which IchoTolot found backroutes - two each on the Diva rank ("Wrecking ball" and "Total eclipse of the builders") and the Rockstar rank ("Highway to Hell" and "Under bergets rot"). "Under bergets rot" is hard to fix though, and I still believe the intended solution isn't quite being enforced - probably another case of the intended solution being unnecessarily complicated, so that it can always be bypassed by an easier solution...

I've also expanded the pre-level hints on the Noisemaker levels "Glide and joy" (08) and "Rock, paper, scissors" (38), since I felt they weren't providing enough of a help to explain the tricks they are supposed to teach.

Finally, I discovered a minor way on Noisemaker 11 myself that allows to avoid using the central trick during the first part of the level (it still had to be used on the second part of the level). I've decided to go ahead and fix this with a bit of steel, so that it's not possible to dig behind the hatch on the right.

[Strato Incendus]

Another update is here! The link in the starting post is still the same.

This update brings backroute fixes to the Rockstar and Legend rank. No changes to Encore and Groupie (yet).

Changelog (click to show/hide)

Fixed:

Rockstar 22 (Summer of '69): added steel
Rockstar 38 (Stonehenge): added downward arrows
Rockstar 39 (Holy Mountains): added one-way fields
Rockstar 40 (Dream on): added steel

Legend 01 (Bolemian Rhapsody): added steel
Legend 07 (Lemmingrad): added downward arrows
Legend 09 (Eye of the tiger): added steel
Legend 11 (Living on a prayer): added upward arrows (that act as steel)
Legend 13 (Nothing else matters): added upward arrows (that act as steel)
Legend 17 (Y. Lem C. A.): added steel
Legend 23 (Wish you were here): added one-way left arrows (that act as steel)
Legend 24 (Let my Lems open the door): added downward arrows
Legend 25 (I will survive): added steel next to the exit; however, IchoTolot's awesome alternative solution remains intact; this is just a precaution I wanted to take against possible other backroutes
Legend 26 (Time to say goodbye): added one-way left arrows (that act as steel)
Legend 30 (Knocking on Heaven's door): added an additional exit button
Legend 34 (Purple Haze): shortened one stalactite a few pixels so that Platformers below a certain altitude can't reach it anymore
Legend 37 (Breaking the law): added steel; this might make the final skill assignment slightly more precise (it already is quite precise), but I think there should be enough leeway not to tank on the steel. Sadly, the way I originally wanted to fix this level (with one-way arrows) didn't work, since there was no way of placing one-way arrows that wouldn't have broken the intended solution as well.

Deliberately unfixed:

Legend 05 (Hallelujah): I could have gone with a different exit (a lockable one) and enforce the intended solution slightly more by using buttons, but I decided not to. The Pillar exit used here actually has a locked version in New Formats, but not in Old Formats.
Legend 35 (Scarborough Fair): IchoTolot's timing-based solution uses fewer skills, but is still a clever one, so I decided to continue to allow it

Currently unfixable:
All of these levels are playable, of course; it's just that the intended solution is so complex that it requires more skills than any simpler shortcut currently available.

Legend 02 (Purple Rain)
Legend 10 (Wind of Change)
Legend 15 (Waterloo)
Legend 28 (Just a little bit)

[kaywhyn]

Just started playing this pack last night. I'm essentially using this time in between the contest and testing your LOA pack to catch up on your flagship pack. I just finished the Noisemaker rank, so here are my complete set of replays for the rank and my feedback. Also, I'm well aware that you still need to release an update for the Encore and Groupie ranks. Honestly, you'll probably get that done way before I even get to those ranks.

Feedback on the Noisemaker Rank

Since this is yet again another first rank of tutorial levels, instead of feedback on every individual level (honestly, 40 is a lot in one rank, and I can't even begin to phantom how very long it will take me to write feedback on all 40 levels for each rank, especially the later ones) like I did with Paralems and Pit Lems, I'm just going to focus on a select few.

Being another first rank that's just tutorials, I'll be honest, and that is I was pretty bored with the rank, since I'm pretty much familiar with all of the tricks mentioned in the pre-text associated with each level. That probably means I probably could had skipped the Noisemaker rank entirely, but when it comes to playing packs I play all ranks anyway, so endure it I must. To be fair, this rank isn't the main meat and the real deal of the pack, since I believe the exciting stuff is in the Amateur rank and beyond. However, I believe I also gathered from the OP of this topic that the Amateur rank is similar to the Noisemaker with tutorial style levels, with the first few levels of the Amateur rank I have played so far being quite similar to the first few of Pit Lems in that they're being grouped by type of skills: constructive, destructive, horizontal movement, etc. up until a little over the halfway point of the rank. So, I think with this knowledge I will likely be bored even more until I'm past all of them in the Amateur rank.

Another thing about the Noisemaker levels is that they're also quite challenging. It's like you said, these aren't your very basic skill tutorial levels, there's also a real puzzle on top of introducing the skill mechanics rather than just their basic function. Even the first level already starts off a bit difficult, although I still think Noisemaker 1 is a bit easier than LOL 1 of Pit Lems. Heck, Basic 1 of Lemmicks is the easiest out of these first levels in the first rank. Now, I know that you said that nin10doadict thought Pit Lems got difficult too quickly and that you were essentially aiming for intermediate with LWT. I don't think that has been the case so far with the tutorial levels, but I'm only in the very early stages of the pack, so I'm likely speaking too soon. In particular, I think Noisemaker 4 - Going under is the first level that will likely stump many players, as it really requires you to think about how to get through the multiple obstacles with the extremely limited amount of destructive skills. The level certainly does a great job of enforcing the idea needed, though, it's just a bit harsh with the very limited skillset IMO.

Noisemaker 5 - Over the rainbow might also be another somewhat difficult level for the less experienced players.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think here the biggest problem is that some will probably try building and then block at the end of the bridge, like I did a few times, only to find that you don't have enough walkers to save the blocker at the end of the bridge later, since you need 3. Instead, the solution involves blocking on even ground and letting a builder build into it to turn around and bridge the gap to the exit. Besides that, the other tricky thing is ensuring that no lemmings are nearby when blocking, as everyone needs to be saved.

I also consider Noisemaker 8 - Glide and joy to be another unusually difficult level, not just because of how to get the trick to turn around on steel with builders and a digger, which you explained in more detail in the most recent update from earlier this year, but also because

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

digging out the bridge that closed the gap with the steel blocks is annoyingly precise, as you have to dig right at the last moment in order for the glider to make it across the water pond.

Noisermaker 10 - Noel nouvelet is quite a nice somewhat challenging puzzle using only NL skills. I say the only tricky thing here is the placement of the stacker, especially when trying to make sure just the glider slips past and no other lemmings do.

Finally, not a difficult level per se, but I consider the trick needed in Noisemaker 33 - Mein kleiner gruener Kaktus to be an extremely obscure one for less experienced players. I have known it for quite a while, and hence the level is easy for someone like me, but

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think it's not very clear to more casual players that assigning a blocker to a digger that's digging at the very edge such that the center is not digging anything won't result in the lemming blocking but instead releases the digger. Of course, to us more experienced players this makes sense, since if there's nothing being dug at the center where the lemming's feet are, then when it's assigned a blocker it technically isn't standing on anything and hence that's why it's released immediately. To other players, this is quite a leap to deduce.

It's also a pretty nice looking level too, although the giant OWW arrows really stand out and make the cacti not look as nice. 

All other levels in the rank weren't as challenging as the ones mentioned above, although they're still challenging enough to require some thinking on how to solve. I really liked Noisemaker 21 - Rainbow in the dark, which is a really close repeat of Noisemaker 5, using the builder wall trick at the end, which is first taught 3 levels prior.

There are levels that I would like to point out where I didn't really use the trick you intended in your spoiler list. I think Noisemaker 14 - Digital World (I know what you mean in the spoiler list, but I certainly didn't use it, and I have skills leftover), Noisemaker 18 - Stop and stair (I simply brute forced it and so I have a basher leftover, easiest fix here is to increase the number of lemmings so I can't pull off what I did in my replay), Noisemaker 22 - Locked Away (I didn't assign any skills at the top of the walls to stop the climbers, and I don't think there's really any way to enforce this), and Noisemaker 30 - In the Army (I don't know what you mean in the spoiler) are the ones I didn't use the trick you intended. For the last one, unless that's exactly you mean,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I simply used builders to turn around at the end, mined, and then simply bashed under the entire level.

A lot of these levels look really nice, even in the ones that use just the original styles. I got to say the nicest looking level in this rank is Noisemaker 15 - Octopus's Garden, with Noisemaker 39 - Vegas Lights a close second. I absolutely love the former song, as I'm a huge Beatles fan. Written primarily and sung by none other than Ringo Starr too, the one who contributed the least but occasional vocals as compared to his 3 bandmates in their songs. Hidden traps here, but the real saving grace is that it's a very short level and plus the locations of the traps in the octopus are kind of easy to guess at, although the level can still be a bit annoying to pull off. I'm not sure if my very temporary digger pit on the clam is intended, as well as getting past the trigger on top of it, is intended, though.

For the latter, I don't know the song, but I do know Panic at the Disco. Ugh, the excessive repetitive stoning assignments to get past 4 trap trigger areas! Even after that, it can be a bit difficult to isolate a lemming to bridge the gap to the exit. Nevertheless, I do like how you included the Eiffel Tower replica, since it is there when you visit Las Vegas. Speaking of Vegas, the last time I went was way back in 2012, after I had just graduated from college. I should definitely make plans to come back and visit one of these days. Too bad I'm already in my 30s, and it's especially very difficult for me to take vacations nowadays.

Out of the 40 levels in this rank, I recognized 11 of them by title. Others I don't know the song, but I recognized the artist's name. It surprises me that you even know about singers like Katy Perry, Duran Duran, and Joan Jett. You either know them from listening to them a lot on the radio or you really did your research. Others like the Beatles and Wham not so much, since they're from around close to where you are.

One final thing regarding a level. For Noisemaker 38 - Rock, Paper, Scissors, the trigger area of the vine traps seems way off. Instead of being right on top of the vine, it's a little off to the side. Is this intended? I'm not sure if it will affect the level's solution either way.

Finally, a big issue with the pack is that it tends to take quite a while for the level preview to load up. The worst offenders in the Noisemaker ranks are the two artistic levels I just mentioned, Octopus's Garden and Vegas Lights. The latter takes the longest out of all the Noisemaker levels to load up.

Now that I'm on the Amateur rank, hopefully the very exciting stuff is to come. I was definitely very bored with the Noisemaker rank, and them being quite challenging kind of made it a turn-off even more, but then again I am a bit crankier today than I usually am due to finishing the second half and how I'm extremely sleep-deprived. Again, I'm sure the pack definitely gets better with its puzzles. Artistically, obviously many of those are to come, since most of the levels had to get the design right. If that's the case, then I definitely have something to look forward to as I proceed with the pack. I just hope that the pack does keep me engaged as I play more of it later.

Ok pack so far, but again I'm aware that I'm not even into the good stuff yet since I've only played the very boring Noisemaker rank so far.

[kaywhyn]

Just like that, Amateur rank already completed! Here are my replays up to Amateur 40, as well as my feedback on the Amateur rank. Same thing, since it's mostly just tutorial (not really) style levels, I'll probably do the same thing here as I did with the Noisemaker rank, meaning I likely won't give feedback on each individual level until Amateur 29 and beyond.

Feedback on the First 28 Tutorial-Like Levels of the Amateur Rank

Let me start off by saying that it was a huge relief to finally start hearing the other music tracks starting in this rank. I got annoyed with the boring ONML music rotation very quickly in the Noisemaker rank. Don't get me wrong, you did a good job of remixing the 6 ONML tracks, but it was very boring hearing the same 6 tunes throughout the 40 levels of the Noisemaker rank. Indeed, I found myself rocking out to some of your original Lemmings music track remixes in the Amateur rank In particular, I love the music for Amateur 7, as well as the following level, Amateur 8 (Very nice How Much is That Doggie in the Window? remix! ), Amateur 9 (especially the beginning which sounds almost like something from Tchaikovsky's The Nutcracker Suite, specifically The Flower Waltz), and Amateur 13. Nice job with these! The rest of the tracks I was either partial to or wasn't a fan of. I would probably love both The Can Can and She'll Be Coming Round the Mountain tracks if they weren't as loud.

After I finished the Amateur rank last night, I headed over to the LWT New Formats topic to read the posts on the Noisemaker and Amateur ranks. Apparently I echoed a lot of Icho's feedback for the Noisemaker rank here for Old Formats, so you're going to see me echoing a lot of Icho's feedback for the Amateur rank as well.

In contrast to the Noisemaker rank, the tutorial style levels in the Amateur rank were more enjoyable and weren't nearly as difficult, and the difficulty isn't all over the place. At least after the first 2 levels of Amateur, which I felt were difficult in their own way, although the former not as much as the latter. For Amateur 1 - It's a Long Way to the top, it is a bit difficult to see that 4 stackers is sufficient to get over the first wall. Even if it's difficult visually, I guess it's very easy to deduce that stackers must be used for that, based on the skillset, since 2 builders is obviously nowhere near enough to get over the first wall. Then again, it's always difficult to tell how many stackers are needed to get over any wall, especially since most of us are used to using builders to get over walls.

For Amateur 2 - Timber (It's going down!), the only difficult part is the leftmost entrance. It's not easy to figure out how to delay the lemmings long enough for a worker lemming to mine the tree obstacle before anyone turns back and drowns. The other two entrances are very easy to figure out. Then again, this is also the very first time I have played a level in your Autumn tileset, which means I need to get used to recognizing the objects but most importantly the trap, which blends in very well with the other leaves, although I correctly suspected the bottom one on the left since it really stand out, even if the top trap took me by complete surprise, since I have never played this tileset ever.

After the first two levels, then I say we had a long stretch of fairly easy levels. Amateur 3 - Walking on sunshine will likely look impossible at first glance for most, but then I looked at the number of lemmings in the level, and with two hatches, that means 5 out of each, hence the 5 swimmers. Also, since you later teach that the water breaks falls with Amateur 12 in the pre-text, I'm wondering if these levels should switch positions. The only problem here is that this would break the already neatly placed levels according to movement of skills for the first three levels (up, down, and horizontal), so unless your intention is for the player to figure out that water always breaks falls, I would say this can be a huge step up in difficulty for the less experienced players. Luckily, if the player manages to figure that out, the rest is easy.

Amateur 8 - Who let the dogs out? is quite a difficult level and I would even say is a huge step up in difficulty compared to the previous levels of the rank. It's not easy to figure out how to navigate the terrain and around the dog traps with the extremely restricted skillset. Truthfully, the missing disarmer was the very first thing I noticed in the level, so naturally I scanned the level to find the disarmer pickup. Surprisingly, I couldn't spot it myself, so at first I thought you were trolling and made an error for the level. I did suspect that it was the mound next to the last dog before the exit, but I wasn't certain. It should be obvious to you that I resisted turning on CPM, and I played the entire level without the aid of it. Indeed, the "boing" pickup sound took me a bit by surprise after I passed the mound I suspected where the pickup was. I then rewinded a bit and took another quick look, and I finally did see the disarmer icon in the mound. Quite well-hidden, if I do say so myself.

As for the level, I got to say that it definitely shouldn't be a surprise that indeed there are hidden traps in the dogs, particularly since the pre-text somewhat hints at it. It's also as you say, your animals are hungry for lemmings. I got to say, though, that you did a great job of depicting dog poop at the barrel, and when the trap went off, my reaction was, "Eww, the dog pooped on the lemming and killed it!" There is also some kind of trap that sucks lemmings upwards in the first and last dogs that I encountered in my solution when you get to its mouth. I got to ask, what kind of trap is it that's sucking the lemmings upwards? Especially since the lemming immediately gets sucked up once it steps on the trigger area. Obviously, it's to give the impression that the dog ate the lemming, so I thought that was fun to see. Above all, great looking level!

I say Amateur 13 - Ayo Technology is a pretty difficult radiation level. It's definitely not easy to work out how to manuever the lemmings with the radiation coundown to get them to explode in the places that will get the crowds from either side up to the exit. The save requirement might seem very lenient, but even with the cloners it's pretty tight. Nice looking level though, with the depiction of the atom and referencing lemmings being blown into atoms with the radiation.

Amateur 15 - Ring, ring! can also be difficult, but I say more tricky than difficult. The solution I came up with building into terrain to turn around at the end to bash the OWWs seems to be the more difficult alternative. I read your spoiler list on what you intended on this level after I had saved the rank, and indeed having looked at the level again, I say destructive skills going against the OWW is the much easier option here. Once again, nice looking level depicting a telephone with the number keys.

Amateur 16 - Slide it in can also be difficult as well, especially with figuring out how to get the floaters home since they take a little longer to open up their parachute compared to gliders. I might had overcomplicated the solution tremendously though. Indeed, I just tried it again and saw that there are much easier ways to solve it than the way I did. This was what gave me a lot of problems on Hasty 6 of Lemmicks, and I mentioned that was the hardest level of the rank.

I think Amateur 17 - Float is also another difficult one, especially with figuring out how to get past the flower trap and how to bridge the gap before anyone else arrives and falls into the bottomless pit. I didn't use the stoner, so I wonder what the purpose of it is. Probably means I also backrouted the level, but I'm not sure.

Amateur 18 - Tears in Heaven is yet another difficult level and I would also say is a huge step up in difficulty to the previous difficult ones I just mentioned. The right crowd is easy, but the left crowd is quite difficult. It took me quite a while to figure out how to get all of the left crowd to the miner tunnel on the right side.

Amateur 23 - Fields of gold is a difficult level in figuring out how to navigate the honeycomb and getting the right crowd up to where the left crowd can get up. My solution is probably quite fiddly and there are probably much easier ways.

Amateur 24 - Wonderwall Not necessarily difficult, just tricky, in regards to getting the basher/blocker trick to work at the very beginning, but I was already aware of this trick and so this level wasn't as hard. Definitely for less experienced players it will be a very hard level. The one thing I didn't know about was

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

a digger turning around when dug directly on top of a one-way field, but I guess this makes sense since this is akin to digging and releasing a blocker, who has the ability to turn a digger in the other direction when you block in the digger pit.

Amateur 26 - Like ice in the sunshine Nice slowfreeze puzzle that gave me a good struggle for about 10 minutes, so it can be difficult and is somewhat a big step up in difficulty, even with the very restricted skillset. Definitely getting the crowd down safely is hard, and also figuring out how to stop them from walking into the trap.

Finally, Amateur 28 - Zombie is quite a difficult level to finish off the tutorial-like puzzles. Once again, compression for the win here and releasing the crowd at the right time to avoid infection. Before that, I kept trying to actually get rid of the zombie by making him drown, but I wasn't able to.

The other ones I didn't mention in the first 28 levels weren't as difficult and were enjoyable and more to my liking. In particular, I absolutely loved Amateur 5 - Sugar Baby Lem (easy level and nice looking level), Amateur 6 - Cliffs of Dover (nice puzzle and how there's two solutions, my solution spares all the climbers), Amateur 7 - Join me in death (I still enjoyed this one despite the stoner staircase and repeated bombing/stoning, at least it wasn't to the extreme and done to death like it was in Paralems), Amateur 9 - Greensleeves (nice, easy puzzle!), and Amateur 11 - Whole lotta Lems (very nice puzzle, although I initially tried to get all lemmings through the pillar for a few minutes until I realized I was going about it the wrong way and that the several climbers provided had a purpose, and the miner placement and timing can be a bit difficult).

My favorite level of the rank in the first batch of 28 levels was Amateur 19 - Holding out for a hero. Decent looking level and also a very nice, easy puzzle on top of it!

I also really loved Amateur 25 - Radioactive. Very nice and easy radiation puzzle!

Lastly, Amateur 24 - Firework I immediately thought of the nuke being required just based on the level title, especially since it does indeed look like fireworks from all the lemmings being applied a bomber skill with the nuke. This is one of the few levels that I have played where the nuke being required for the solution didn't escape me. For some reason, that one level in Lemmicks where the nuke is needed completely went over my head. I think this is the third level that has Katy Perry as an artist, so you're apparently a fan of her, as am I.

Ok, that took longer and I wrote a lot more than I thought I would, but at least the boring tutorial-like levels are done and over with. Now finally onto the open-ended puzzles and the more exciting stuff. The remaining feedback will be on the final 12 levels of the Amateur rank, starting with Amateur 29.

Feedback on the Last 12 Levels of the Amateur Rank, Starting with Amateur 29

The rest of the rank lived up to my expectations of very exciting and well-done puzzles, and so luckily you managed to get my engagement level back up, and so I will definitely be playing out the rest of the pack with joy, unless I start getting annoyed with future puzzles that have stumped me, but I highly doubt it, since so far it's been looking really good It's going to take a while, since I still have 240 levels to go, but I'll get through the whole pack eventually. In the final set of 12 levels of the rank, the hardest level for me was certainly Amateur 37. I still loved the level and solution, though!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Amateur 29 - Seven Nation Army Very easy level to start off the open-ended puzzles of the rank after the previous 28 tutorial-like levels. Somewhat nice looking level too despite the minimal design in the middle.

Amateur 30 - Georgia on my Mind Already difficult with the second puzzle level, but still not overly hard and quite a nice level. Definitely a nice departure from the standard block the crowd in and have a worker lemming forge the path by temporarily delaying/containing the crowd with a miner pit in both directions and bashing to the right before the lemmings get trapped in the windows. I didn't realize those flashing windows is just scenery. Also the flag pole being scenery and not solid. I'm not sure if it's the exact same in New Formats, but I definitely wished something was done to make the flag pole more clearly scenery and not solid. Great looking level too!

Amateur 31 - The Great Indifference The 0 save requirement was what immediately caught my eye. Is that intentional? Upon loading the level I immediately exited. It's still a very easy level, so I might just go back and actually do the level for real later on.

Amateur 32 - Ich und mein Holz Nice level with a great solution! You, Simon, Icho, Nepster, or eric can translate the level title for me.

Amateur 33 - Eagle Somewhat difficult, but still easy. Also a very nice looking level!

Amateur 34 - Levels Easy 10-of-everything level despite the lose 1 save requirement, although can't be wasteful with your skills, especially the builders. I like how you included a level from every rank of the original Lemmings and put them together to make this level: Fun 1, Tricky 1, Taxing 29, and Mayhem 12. It's just like traveling in time in the game here.

Amateur 35 - Black Polished Chrome This one was quite difficult for me, actually. I struggled with this for a good half hour, but finally managed to solve it. Definitely not easy to find an efficient path through all the obstacles with the extremely restricted skillset to reach the hidden (not hidden at all but in the context of the original Lemmings game it definitely would be hidden) exit inside the wall. For the exit, I kept not having a basher to access it. In the end, two bombers and a platformer leftover.

Amateur 36 - Walk this way Nice puzzle involving a temporary stacker to prevent the glider from exiting and then later circling around to bomb the top of it from the right side! Probably my favorite among the final 12 levels of the rank The only difficult thing is platforming so that only the glider makes it across so that it can circle back while the rest of the crowd can still fall down and get to the exit coming from the left.

Amateur 37 - Shipping to Boston By far the hardest level of the rank but I still love the solution and level. Very nice puzzle with a bunch of tricks required! Struggled for a good 40 minutes or so. The key here is realizing that it's possible to give the first lemming enough time to seal up the gap and losing only one lemming in the process by making the second lemming a bomber to contain the crowd. The level is still no cakewalk after that. Other tricks needed are bombing the second wall as the climber either starts hoisting or falls one pixel from the other direction, temporary 1 bridge for the next gap after that, getting up to the steel platform with a combination of a builder and a stack interrupted with a walker, and finally building to bridge the chain gap to turn around and circle back to the crowd to release them. The final builder can be used to get up on the blue square blocks platform. All of these required things make it a very difficult level.

Amateur 38 - The Shocker Nothing special here and way too easy. Nice breather after the previous brutally difficult level.

Amateur 39 - Japan Nice looking level that is somewhat difficult but still a really nice puzzle! I like how the radiation must be used to bomb the gray pillars but then you also have to figure out how to avoid the radiation traps later afterwards. A couple of skills leftover, but I'm guessing these are fine.

Amateur 40 - God gave Rock n' Roll to you Very nice level to finish off the rank. Somewhat difficult and definitely not trivial despite the 5-of-everything skillset of what you're given. At first, I was wondering where the exit was in the level. I spent a couple of minutes digging through the terrain, as well as the guitar picks at the top. I then experimented and tried going to the very last guitar and to my surprise the worker exited. To be fair, this is the very first level in the music tileset that I have ever played, and so I was completely unaware that the vertical standing black guitar is the exit. It should also be clear that I didn't use CPM at all. I simply wanted the challenge of finding the exit without the aid of it

Also, for a while I tried to use the upper path of going on the piano keys for probably about a good 15-20 minutes before I then tried the lower route. I did try the lower route before spending time on the upper path, but I quickly abandoned it when I saw that you need at least two platformers to make it across the gap. Once I did come back to the bottom route, I quickly realized that's where the stacker can provide the few pixels of width to allow lemmings across the gap without using up another platformer, since three platformers are needed to get to the exit.

Most importantly, very nice looking level!:thumbsup:     

For the Amateur rank, I recognized 10 of the songs by title

Overall, the Amateur rank was a huge improvement compared to the Noisemaker rank. It was still somewhat boring, but nowhere near as much, and the difficulty doesn't jump all over the place like it did in the Noisemaker rank. The Amateur rank definitely lived up to its promise of superb looking levels and well-made puzzles after the first 28 tutorial-like style levels. Indeed, I praised almost all of the final 12 open-ended puzzle levels of the rank, so that's certainly saying something. So, it's thanks to those levels (and some of the ones in the first 28 to an extent) that managed to get me engaged and hyped up about the pack again. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the rest of the pack and finishing up the whole thing!

I think from here on out, I'm going to post with my replays and feedback when I get to the halfway point, ie, after 20 levels. As I said before, 40 levels is just way too much to write feedback on all at once. 20 levels at a time should be much more manageable in terms of how much time I waste writing my feedback. Indeed, that's exactly what I did with United, although I sent replays to Icho whenever I got truly stumped, not necessarily at the halfway point, although I did that too!

Onward to the Professional rank!        

[kaywhyn]

Well, I'm halfway through the Professional rank, so I'm back again already with more replays and feedback. Here are my replays up through Professional 20, as well as feedback for Professional 1 through Professional 20. Well, I must say that I continue to be impressed by the high artistic quality of your levels and puzzles that were definitely promised during my playthrough of the Professional rank so far, after finally getting past the boring stuff from the Noisemaker rank and the little over the first half of the Amateur rank I'm probably now going a little way too fast for your liking, especially since I have seem to pick up significant speed, so perhaps I should slow down my playing of LWT a bit so as not to torture you with so much work fixing up levels for LWT as well in addition to LOA.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Professional 1 - I wanna rock! Nice, challenging level to start off the rank! I like how you must dig low enough on the stoner steps in order to be able to fully build the bridges, although the stoner placements can be a bit precise. Skillset is quite tight, and the solution ends up using everything, so you cannot waste anything at all! Also, you must choose correctly for the gap at the beginning, or you're not going to have enough to solve the level.

Professional 2 - Carry on wayward Lem Nice and easy breather level after the previous challenging level. Somewhat a huge builder fest, although builders can be quite tight.

Professional 3 - Sex bomb Not a difficult level, since it was quite obvious to me what needs to be done, just very difficult to execute. I can only imagine how much harder this level would be with timed bombers, so I think this is one of the few to be thankful of untimed bombers. Not to mention that timed bombers won't even work for this level anyway, since the lemmings are too close to the edge of the wall where they start and hence won't be able to make a safe pit in the wall for lemmings to all down safely.

Professional 4 - Fencing Queen Another nice easy level with a great solution

Professional 5 - Vienna Can be challenging due to the extremely limited destructive skills, but even the builders are somewhat in short supply so you need to be efficient with their use as well. It's still an easy level, though.

Professional 6 - Walk like an Egyptian Probably my second favorite level of the rank in the first half of the rank Can be tricky to figure out how to get the lemmings down to the lowest floor before the exit, but it's still an easy level with a really awesome solution

Professional 7 - Holy Diver Way too easy and nothing too special here

Professional 8 - Blocking all over the world Ah, there's the level from the LOL rank of Pit Lems all fixed up for LWT. It's definitely harder now, especially since you have prevented me from solving it the same way I did the Pit Lems version. Still, the solution is nice when you can piece it together.

Professional 9 - Dig in a box Nice short and somewhat challenging level. They key here is making sure only one lemming is on the other side of the exit while the rest are on the other side. The RR plays a really important role here in getting all the crowd out in time before the digger finishes and causes some lemmings to splat. The first digger near the exit and builder are somewhat precise.

Professional 10 - Buildy Jean The tricks from Stop and stair return here, builder wall and building to seal off the basher tunnel so only one worker lemming goes ahead and forges the path for the crowd. Nice level!

Professional 11 - Making your mine up Nice level primarily involving miners. You probably intended the miner cancelling trick, but that trick is not required to solve this level, as I solved it without it.

Professional 12 - Block around the clock Too easy. I even got the talisman too even though I have not taken a look at the list beforehand. It's so not a gold talisman, it's way too easy for one.

Professional 13 - Tulpen aus Amsterdam I really like this level too, both the artistic quality and the solution The builder/platformer for both gaps are a bit precise, but luckily you only have to do the combo twice. Here, the flag pole was solid, so something really needs to be done about this in being able to differentiate whether it's solid or not. Although, if I'm not mistaken, only the white ones are non-solid, while any other color pole is?

Professional 14 - Waka-waka Nice 1-of-everything level involving mining into steel to turn the climber around since you have to save everyone here. Non-solid white flag pole, so it seems my guess is correct so far?

Professional 15 - Auld Lem Syne Too easy. Nice looking level, though

Professional 16 - Pompeii You did pretty good depicting the resulting eruption of Mount Vesuvius and the destruction of Pompeii that resulted from it all those years ago. Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of the song by Bastille though. I found it annoying back when it played on the radio a lot. As for the level, pretty easy, with how to get into the exit that's buried by the lava being the only challenging thing of the level. The main critique I have is that the platformer/builder bricks are completely invisible against the purple background.

Professional 17 - Surfin' bird Whoa, that's a cool looking exit. Another easy level.

Professional 18 - Sur le pont d'Avignon If I'm not mistaken, the title is French for South of the Avignon port? I don't really know French, I took Spanish all 4 years of high school. Anyway, another really easy level, as well as a very nice looking level, especially with the lemmings swimming in the lake.

Professional 19 - Atte katte nuva Wow, I really like this level! My favorite level of the rank so far. Not only does it look really cool with the snow falling in the background, I really love the solution! Very easy, and I like the releasing the blocker with the fencer trick from the other side which I recently learned in a United level in the Bonus rank.

Professional 20 - Rome Nice looking level that includes Italy's flag. Easy level. My solution seems to be a backroute? Not sure if you intended the use of the teleporter or if it's a complete red herring.     

I think what I will do is finish up the Professional rank and then dial back and slow down my playthrough so as to give you a chance to catch up on fixing levels for the Encore and Groupie ranks, as well as possibly any that I might had backrouted from the Noisemaker and Amateur ranks. I'm sure making you work, aren't I? I'm going to try not to torture you too much with that. Or I might also finish through the next rank as well, which will leave me at the halfway point of the pack. We'll see what happens.

[Strato Incendus]

Mmh, if you keep going at this pace, you will most likely reach the Encore and Groupie rank before I've had a chance to fix them!

Again, thanks for playing and taking the time to write these long and hugely detailed responses! This will definitely help me as a big memory aid when I go about fixing the levels you have solved so far.

Some remarks to select comments of yours (before having watched your replays):

Being another first rank that's just tutorials, I'll be honest, and that is I was pretty bored with the rank, since I'm pretty much familiar with all of the tricks mentioned in the pre-text associated with each level. That probably means I probably could had skipped the Noisemaker rank entirely, but when it comes to playing packs I play all ranks anyway, so endure it I must.

That is precisely the thing about tricks: If you know them, these levels are easy, especially because the pre-level texts spell them out to you. If you don't know them, the level might stump you despite it telling you what to do at the beginning. But I don't see a way of teaching somebody a trick that doesn't involve "learning by doing".

Of course, skipping this rank is indeed an option: If you know all the tricks - or, more accurately, you believe you know all the tricks that can be done in NeoLemmix (since there might always be at least 1 or 2 you don't know yet ) - you are free to skip this rank. But do so at your own peril. When a later level comes back at you and hits you with requiring the same trick out of nowhere, don't say I didn't accurately prepare you for it.

Of course, "you" refers to any player in this context, because for you (kaywhyn) in particular, I know you are enough of a completionist to play the entire pack no matter what.

Your level of boredom with the Noisemaker rank was likely a little amplified by you having played my easier packs back-to-back with this one. If you're basically waiting 150 levels (Paralems) + whatever number of Pit Lems levels was easy for you + 40 Noisemaker levels for a real challenge, you need quite a lot of patience. This will be less strenuous when the Noisemaker rank is the first thing you encounter from me as a level creator - which I assume will be the case for most players, since only LWT is available for New Formats so far.

I don't quite understand how the Noisemaker levels can be boring and challenging at the same time, though? Unless the challenge is about execution difficulty (I recently played that "I am A.T." remake in Lemmings Plus I), which I tried to avoid as much as possible in LWT, I don't see how these too things can go hand in hand.


NOISEMAKER RANK

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think Noisemaker 4 - Going under is the first level that will likely stump many players, as it really requires you to think about how to get through the multiple obstacles with the extremely limited amount of destructive skills. The level certainly does a great job of enforcing the idea needed, though, it's just a bit harsh with the very limited skillset IMO.

This level uses the same logic as "Basic economics" from Pit Lems, which, granted, appears a lot later in its respective pack. Since it is more efficient at enforcing its solution, though, I think that should make it easier in comparison. I remember it being one of Arty's favourites during his LP.

I also consider Noisemaker 8 - Glide and joy to be another unusually difficult level

I agree, which is why I made the pre-level text more explicit about the required trick.
Sadly, I'm pretty sure the precision you mentioned here is required to actually enforce Glider usage at this point: If the lower platform of steel just stuck out slightly below the steel pillar, you could just build over there regularly and wouldn't need the Glider - a regular Faller would also survive. Can't have that!

Finally, not a difficult level per se, but I consider the trick needed in Noisemaker 33 - Mein kleiner gruener Kaktus to be an extremely obscure one for less experienced players.

This particular trick I actually discovered by accident while playing one of IchoTolot's levels. And that one didn't include an introductory hint.
I agree this trick is obscure, which is why the level is rather late in the Noisemaker rank. But since this is one I actually found myself without any hints from the forums, replays etc. (in contrast to many of the other tricks featured in this pack!), I'm inclined to consider it easier than some of the other tricks the player is supposed to learn here.

I got to say the nicest looking level in this rank is Noisemaker 15 - Octopus's Garden, with Noisemaker 39 - Vegas Lights a close second. I absolutely love the former song, as I'm a huge Beatles fan. Written primarily and sung by none other than Ringo Starr too, the one who contributed the least but occasional vocals as compared to his 3 bandmates in their songs. Hidden traps here, but the real saving grace is that it's a very short level and plus the locations of the traps in the octopus are kind of easy to guess at, although the level can still be a bit annoying to pull off. I'm not sure if my very temporary digger pit on the clam is intended, as well as getting past the trigger on top of it, is intended, though.

Yay! Finally someone who enjoys the octopus level!
I guess that actually makes Vegas Lights the worse offender by public opinion, precisely because of those four fire traps...
But if you simultaneously say these were the two pretties levels in the rank, that's confirmation the nuisance factor of those levels is totally worth it!

It surprises me that you even know about singers like Katy Perry, Duran Duran, and Joan Jett.

Katy Perry was pretty much omnipresent in the charts during my high school years.
Duran Duran's "Ordinary World" was covered by a bunch of other artists I knew (Gregorian and Norwegian singer-songwriter Kurt Nilsen, for example), so that's how I became aware of the original. Flopsy mentioned in his LP that he's somewhat acquainted to one of the band members, if I remember correctly?
"I Love Rock 'n Roll" is simply a classic; I think I've heard it first on the iPod / iPhone game "Guitar Rock Tour 2". Of course, being an actual guitarist, I never would have bought one of these games out of my own effort, but the previous owner of my first iPod touch had it pre-installed, I tried it, and thought it was a nice way to get to know some more songs while enjoying a different form of "finger challenge".

I think this is the third level that has Katy Perry as an artist, so you're apparently a fan of her, as am I.

Not necessarily a fan - it's just that somehow, a lot of her song titles lent themselves well to level names. Plus, given her medial omnipresence, I can always be reasonably confident people will know the song when I name a level after one of them.

Finally, a big issue with the pack is that it tends to take quite a while for the level preview to load up. The worst offenders in the Noisemaker ranks are the two artistic levels I just mentioned, Octopus's Garden and Vegas Lights. The latter takes the longest out of all the Noisemaker levels to load up.

In these cases, it's because of tileset mixing. Occasionally, this may even lead to Old-Formats NeoLemmix crashing, as mentioned in the starting post. It's not going to affect your progress / save game, though; simply restart NeoLemmix and open the level again.

Some of the graphic sets simply have long loading time becaues of high resolution, though, even if you're not mixing them. For example, all of GigaLem's Freedom Planet tilesets. You may have noticed that the Pit Lems levels "Arigato, Lemming-san!" and "You want it, you got it!" also take a good amount of tile to load for this reason.

One final thing regarding a level. For Noisemaker 38 - Rock, Paper, Scissors, the trigger area of the vine traps seems way off. Instead of being right on top of the vine, it's a little off to the side. Is this intended? I'm not sure if it will affect the level's solution either way.

I guess this is the way it has always been in the ONML Rock tileset. I don't even think the trigger area was moved during New-Formats conversion. I definitely didn't tinker with the vine trap; I made my own version of the Rock chameleon trap, because some of these animal traps relied on having just the head available as a separate piece (as it used to be in Old Formats), instead of the whole lizard as one.

Also, since you later teach that the water breaks falls with Amateur 12 in the pre-text, I'm wondering if these levels should switch positions. The only problem here is that this would break the already neatly placed levels according to movement of skills for the first three levels (up, down, and horizontal), so unless your intention is for the player to figure out that water always breaks falls, I would say this can be a huge step up in difficulty for the less experienced players. Luckily, if the player manages to figure that out, the rest is easy.

Indeed, this is precisely the reason why those levels haven't swapped places. "Smoke on the water" wasn't made to introduce water breaking falls, though - I just needed it to be "about something". When I made the pre-level text, I forgot I had already required knowledge of this trick on an earlier level. A similar thing happened to me in the first version of Pit Lems, where "Blocking all over the world" came before "On the fence", thus casually introducing the Fencer before it was officially introduced. nin10doadict spotted that right away during his LP. In case of Pit Lems, though, this actually let to the levels swapping positions. But it was easier then, because they were already back-to-back anyway.

AMATEUR RANK

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For Amateur 2 - Timber (It's going down!), the only difficult part is the leftmost entrance. It's not easy to figure out how to delay the lemmings long enough for a worker lemming to mine the tree obstacle before anyone turns back and drowns. The other two entrances are very easy to figure out. Then again, this is also the very first time I have played a level in your Autumn tileset, which means I need to get used to recognizing the objects but most importantly the trap, which blends in very well with the other leaves, although I correctly suspected the bottom one on the left since it really stand out, even if the top trap took me by complete surprise, since I have never played this tileset ever.

This is not my Autumn tileset, it's GigaLem's remake of namida's Lemmings Plus Tree tileset. So namida is to blame for the leaf trap blending in with the trees (kind of reminding me of the boulder trap from the Dirt tileset) . GigaLem just adapted the trap faithfully.

Amateur 8 - Who let the dogs out? is quite a difficult level and I would even say is a huge step up in difficulty compared to the previous levels of the rank. It's not easy to figure out how to navigate the terrain and around the dog traps with the extremely restricted skillset. Truthfully, the missing disarmer was the very first thing I noticed in the level, so naturally I scanned the level to find the disarmer pickup. Surprisingly, I couldn't spot it myself, so at first I thought you were trolling and made an error for the level. I did suspect that it was the mound next to the last dog before the exit, but I wasn't certain. It should be obvious to you that I resisted turning on CPM, and I played the entire level without the aid of it. Indeed, the "boing" pickup sound took me a bit by surprise after I passed the mound I suspected where the pickup was. I then rewinded a bit and took another quick look, and I finally did see the disarmer icon in the mound. Quite well-hidden, if I do say so myself.

The pickup skill being a leaf, however, was one of the decisions made by GigaLem when he made this stylized version of namida's Lemmings Plus Tree tileset.

As for the level, I got to say that it definitely shouldn't be a surprise that indeed there are hidden traps in the dogs, particularly since the pre-text somewhat hints at it. It's also as you say, your animals are hungry for lemmings. I got to say, though, that you did a great job of depicting dog poop at the barrel, and when the trap went off, my reaction was, "Eww, the dog pooped on the lemming and killed it!"

YES! Finally someone who got to experience a "crap trap" in all its glory!

Although, since you mentioned the barrel, I think you're referring to the dog on the balcony? That is actually supposed to be the dog peeing on the lemming. Hence it's yellow, and there's the little puddle on top of the barrel. I think I used a different water drop trap on another level featuring a dog from either Paralems or Pit Lems.

That said, there is indeed an actual dog poop trap on the level, though, and I used the chocolate trap from namida's Candy tileset to create it... I've also placed a piece of terrain under it that is slightly triangularly shaped. So that it could either be earth or a dog turd.

I say Amateur 13 - Ayo Technology is a pretty difficult radiation level. It's definitely not easy to work out how to manuever the lemmings with the radiation coundown to get them to explode in the places that will get the crowds from either side up to the exit. The save requirement might seem very lenient, but even with the cloners it's pretty tight. Nice looking level though, with the depiction of the atom and referencing lemmings being blown into atoms with the radiation.

Just to be clear, that's not just any atom, it's the "Atomium" structure in Brussels. Hence the Belgian flag. Also, Milow is Belgian, but he only covered this song.

Amateur 18 - Tears in Heaven is yet another difficult level and I would also say is a huge step up in difficulty to the previous difficult ones I just mentioned. The right crowd is easy, but the left crowd is quite difficult. It took me quite a while to figure out how to get all of the left crowd to the miner tunnel on the right side.

Yes, I'm aware - this one also managed to stump Flopsy on his LWT LP.

Amateur 23 - Fields of gold is a difficult level in figuring out how to navigate the honeycomb and getting the right crowd up to where the left crowd can get up. My solution is probably quite fiddly and there are probably much easier ways.

Good to know - I always thought this level was too easy in comparison!

Amateur 24 - Wonderwall Not necessarily difficult, just tricky, in regards to getting the basher/blocker trick to work at the very beginning, but I was already aware of this trick and so this level wasn't as hard. Definitely for less experienced players it will be a very hard level. The one thing I didn't know about was

Precisely, new players would be completely stumped by this if the level didn't tell them about it. I never knew it was possible until I saw it done on a level - a level which I had considered impossible before that. The digger trick you mentioned in the spoiler isn't actually part of the intended solution. Nice to know, though - and yes, given the behaviour of Blockers, it makes total sense.

Finally, Amateur 28 - Zombie is quite a difficult level to finish off the tutorial-like puzzles. Once again, compression for the win here and releasing the crowd at the right time to avoid infection. Before that, I kept trying to actually get rid of the zombie by making him drown, but I wasn't able to.

I've become used to people using timing-based solutions on my zombie levels, but usually I do indeed put in a way of killing the zombie. So getting rid of him is actually part of the intended solution. Compression method is taught on the level right before this one, but good to know that knowledge can be applied again here, too.

My favorite level of the rank in the first batch of 28 levels was Amateur 19 - Holding out for a hero. Decent looking level and also a very nice, easy puzzle on top of it

Thanks a lot; you seem to be in agreement with Colorful Arty on that one! Shipping up to Boston was another one, and you seem to agree about it being challening - you may have found an alternative solution to it, though, I'll have to check.

Amateur 31 - The Great Indifference The 0 save requirement was what immediately caught my eye. Is that intentional? Upon loading the level I immediately exited. It's still a very easy level, so I might just go back and actually do the level for real later on.

Yes, it's completely intentional. This level simply "doesn't mind at all".
And whoever set the minimum save requirement in New Formats to 1 lemming completely ruined that!

So be aware that your current "replay" will not work in the New-Formats version...
There is a talisman for saving everyone, though, in both versions. It's just that New-Formats tells you that right on the pre-level screen; Old Formats didn't have this feature yet, you have to go to the Talisman window to check - or simply save everyone out of your own ambition, as Arty did.

Amateur 32 - Ich und mein Holz Nice level with a great solution! You, Simon, Icho, Nepster, or eric can translate the level title for me.

The translation is already included in the pre-level text: It means "Me and my wood".

Amateur 40 - God gave Rock n' Roll to you Very nice level to finish off the rank. Somewhat difficult and definitely not trivial despite the 5-of-everything skillset of what you're given. At first, I was wondering where the exit was in the level. I spent a couple of minutes digging through the terrain, as well as the guitar picks at the top. I then experimented and tried going to the very last guitar and to my surprise the worker exited. To be fair, this is the very first level in the music tileset that I have ever played, and so I was completely unaware that the vertical standing black guitar is the exit. It should also be clear that I didn't use CPM at all. I simply wanted the challenge of finding the exit without the aid of it

Okay, thanks for your patience, but this tileset is not meant to be obscure at all. I simply had no better idea of what to use as an exit without breaking the music theme - or having to design an exit animation from scratch. I thought the sound hole of an acoustic guitar might still be a comparatively intuitive choice. I probably would have made it more apparent if CPM didn't exist. Note that the exit guitar can of course also be rotated, so on some future levels, it will be horizontal, but it's still the exit.

Sometimes other tilesets can be confusing in this way, too, though. For example, I famously remember Nepster confusing the airlock trap from the L2 Space tileset as the exit on the Paralems level "The Phantom Lemace". And I thought "What? This is a long-established official DMA tileset!" Granted, the actual exit was hidden on that level, but still - I assume everyone knows the official traps...

PROFESSIONAL RANK

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Professional 6 - Walk like an Egyptian Probably my second favorite level of the rank in the first half of the rank Can be tricky to figure out how to get the lemmings down to the lowest floor before the exit, but it's still an easy level with a really awesome solution

Good to know, because this particular level used to be very prone to backroutes! Judging from your enthusiasm about it, I hope it may finally have succeeded at enforcing its intended solution...

Professional 12 - Block around the clock Too easy. I even got the talisman too even though I have not taken a look at the list beforehand. It's so not a gold talisman, it's way too easy for one.

That, in contrast, sounds like you've found a backroute. The level is supposed to enforce usage of a previously-taught trick, while at the same time adding something new and complex. However, in doing the latter, it seems to add too many degrees of freedom to continue reliably enforcing the trick.

Professional 13 - Tulpen aus Amsterdam I really like this level too, both the artistic quality and the solution The builder/platformer for both gaps are a bit precise, but luckily you only have to do the combo twice. Here, the flag pole was solid, so something really needs to be done about this in being able to differentiate whether it's solid or not. Although, if I'm not mistaken, only the white ones are non-solid, while any other color pole is?

Correct - the white flag pole is an object from the L2 Circus tileset, whereas the other ones are solid terrain.

This issue goes back all the way to the original design of Lemmings 2: The Tribes: On the Circus tileset, it was just the flag poles. L2 Shadow is an even worse offender with its street lights (switched on or off), phone boxes, clouds, the moon with a face, and the windows from "Georgia on my mind", all of which are objects - while the trash cans and hydrants are solid, as well as the moon from the L2 Polar tileset.

We cannot "fix" these tilesets because they are official ones. I could have refrained from using the Circus flag pole, but too often, an actually solid flag pole would have been in the way, and providing an additional destructive skill to get rid of it might have opened up backroutes. Of course, I could have refrained from using solid flag poles at all, then - but in this case, the landscape was so flat (well, duh, it's the Netherlands ) that I needed to add at least some form of altitude gain to make this more than just a "build across the water canals" level.

Professional 17 - Surfin' bird Whoa, that's a cool looking exit. Another easy level.

Thanks, this is the exit from namida's Mineshaft tileset, turned on its head to look like an owl. One of the reasons why I insisted on exits continuing to be invertible in New Formats.
I think you still can't rotate them, though, so my guitar exit from the music tileset is always horizontal in the New-Formats version, I believe. This may or may not result in your replay for "God gave Rock 'n Roll to you" breaking when you run it over the New-Formats version of the level.

Professional 18 - Sur le pont d'Avignon If I'm not mistaken, the title is French for South of the Avignon port? I don't really know French, I took Spanish all 4 years of high school. Anyway, another really easy level, as well as a very nice looking level, especially with the lemmings swimming in the lake.

"Pont" is not port, but bridge. It means "On the bridge of Avignon". And yes, that bridge referenced in the song nowadays actually only covers half of the river it's supposed to cross, just like in the level - the rest of it collapsed. When I was in Avignon in 2012, I only saw it from above and at first confused it for a pier for ships to dock at. Thus, this is not a lake; it's the river Rhone.

This last one I need to put in an additional spoiler tag again, because it contains info about the solution:

Professional 19 (click to show/hide)

Professional 19 - Atte katte nuva Wow, I really like this level! My favorite level of the rank so far. Not only does it look really cool with the snow falling in the background, I really love the solution! Very easy, and I like the releasing the blocker with the fencer trick from the other side which I recently learned in a United level in the Bonus rank.

Yes, this is why I consider the Fencer a criminally underrated skill, and heavily oppose people whenever they claim it's superfluous.
It's a reverse Miner, folks! Use it like a Miner!

[kaywhyn]

Professional rank finished. Attached are my replays up through Professional 40, as well as my feedback for Professional 21 through Professional 40. The puzzles continue to be excellent, and more high praise incoming!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Professional 21 - The lion sleeps tonight Awimbaway awimbaway awimbaway awimbaway (I'm sure that's not correct at all, just what it sounds like to me, but the following is right) "In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight." Haha I couldn't resist. Nice short and somewhat easy level, with the very high RR adding a bit to the challenge. I guess the cat trap is the closest that we can get to an actual lion in the game, although I think the tiger is closer to a cat than a lion is. I do have a bomber leftover, but I lost one to a cat trap, which is fine since we're allowed 2 losses anyway.

Professional 22 - Samba de Janeiro O.o nice level and solution! Very nice design. The only tricky part is the right edge of the cross, where a combination of two platformers + a builder is used, and only that must be used. Otherwise, you're not going to have enough for the water gap, and you won't have anything to turn the swimmer around.

Professional 23 - Streets of London Another nice looking level using the city tileset. And of course the most appropriate "London Bridge is Falling Down" tune to boot, since it's all about London. Nice Big Ben design there. Not a very hard level, but it is a somewhat tricky 3-of-everything level, especially upon first glance it might not seem to be enough. Being economical and efficient is the name of the game for this level. If you are, you can still end up with a lot of skills leftover like I did here.

Professional 24 - Malle ist nur einmal im Jahr Very nice level and solution here too! Somewhat easy despite the high RR. This level definitely seems like something Icho would make, only maybe not quite this very short, but how a crowd will be heading into danger, that part reminds me of his style of level making. Maybe it'll be easy for me to guess which levels you tried imitating his style in the Groupie rank. I have a glider and swimmer leftover.

Professional 25 - A Spacelem came travelling Too easy. Nice looking lemming garden gnomes, two of which are blockers and one which seems to be playing dead.

Professional 26 - Budapest This one was quite difficult, actually. The skillset is extremely tight, and all of them are used in my solution. Especially for the right half, the skill placements all seemed very precise. It's also difficult to get the bomber hole in the middle column just right so that the lemmings can travel to the exit, as well as still be surmountable.

Professional 27 - Moskau, Moskau Very nice decorative level! This one was also difficult, although maybe not as difficult as the previous one. I think only the cloning the miner part is very precise, as well as the builder for the very last gap before the exit.

Professional 28 - The Irish Rover Whoa, what a cool looking ship from a distance, and you made the lower decks visible where the lemmings start. Not difficult, but it is very tricky to figure out the best way to navigate through the many obstacles, so the 5-of-everything skillset is quite tight. What did you do so that none of the many sideway barrels don't spawn lemmings? I initially thought they were all going to have lemmings get released, truthfully. Also, not sure why the lemmings are preassigned swimmers, especially since they can't be saved once they do fall in the water.

Professional 29 - Rock you like a hurricane Not difficult as well, just tricky in figuring out how to be efficient with your platformers/builders, and I ended up using all of both! This time, the exit has been rotated sideways, although I believe you mentioned that they're all upright in New Formats?

Professional 30 - Smells like Lem spirit Excellent puzzle! The only difficult part is figuring out how to mine the bottom crowd up, as well as how to bash the upper part of the OWW to get to the exit.

Professional 31 - Bay of Pigs Nothing too special about this zombie level, especially since my solution is probably not intended, as I don't use a glider to get over there to platform to the crowd. Instead, I simply platformed across in the starting area, since it seems that anyone on top of the stack can't get infected by the zombies even when they're climbers but the overhang prevents them from climbing more than 1 pixel.

Professional 32 - Bratislava Lover Very nice looking level and great puzzle! This level does a very good job of teaching the player that instead of using 3 builders to get up to the exit, which would be what most players would do and is perfectly fine if there were more builders, but since we are limited and won't have enough left for the other gaps, one must bash and interrupt it midstroke with a walker so that you can get up to the exit. Excellent!

Professional 33 - Aquarius Another great looking level, as well as a very nice puzzle. It is somewhat tricky, but not terribly difficult to figure out at all. It's obviously clear that only the far left exit is accessible once all buttons have been pushed. The platformers may seem plentiful, but you must be efficient in their use.

Professional 34 - Bang-a-boomerang Another good looking level and a great puzzle on top of it. It is somewhat tricky as well to figure out, but it's not too terribly difficult either. The most difficult part is timing the release of the second climber to block and turn the miner. I like how the miner needs to circle back and release the crowd with a digger and a bomber. It does result in a very long wait, especially since the builders haven't been used yet and the crowd will have to walk all that way, but thank goodness for the time skip (just spam spacebar).

Professional 35 - Iron Maidan Not sure if that's the intended spelling or if that's the correct song title, but I know it as "maiden." Ok looking level, but the puzzle is really great! Nice use of digger cancelling, as well as platforming to the columns instead of platforming near the top surface of the exit area and having to fence repeatedly until you can get high enough to get to the exit. Luckily, the crowd has a long way before reaching the worker lemming in progress.

Professional 36 - Down in Mexico Really nice looking level and also a great puzzle too! A bit tricky to figure out, especially since I initially tried digging and then stopping it with a bomber once it was close enough to the level of the platformer. After a few tries, it was then clear that this wouldn't work out at all since a climber in the pit needs to be released before the bomber explodes but also the worker and climber would be too close to each other that the first one wouldn't have enough time to make the miner tunnel deep enough to turn the other one around to mine down to the crowd. The key here instead is making a bomber hole at the edge of the starting area so that the platformers can close the gap and no one will fall off the bottom.

Professional 37 - Sun of Jamaica Very nice looking level and a very nice solution that comes together quite nicely! Easy level, with the only tricky thing being how to isolate a worker lemming, as well as realizing that you must bash high enough on the second palm tree on the ground in order to be able to access the exit.

Professional 38 - Ovo je Balkan Somewhat hard level with a difficult to spot solution. Still, I love the solution! Good looking level too. I think that digging and bashing under all the mines is a really good red herring. Of course, if you make the connection with the fact that there's 5 mines and that you can lose up to 5 lemmings here, then it should be clear that it's ok to lose a lemming to each one if you remember they're 1-time traps only.

Professional 39 - Taj-a, Taj-a, Taj-a, Taj Me Have you seen the Rocky Horror Picture Show? I saw it sometime ago at a local movie theater, where the actors walk around the stage and engage with the audience. Way too easy, and nice attempt at recreating the Taj Maha of India.

Professional 40 - Queen of Chinatown Good looking level, but most importantly easy and very nice puzzle to finish off the rank! I really love the solution here. A lot easier than the Amateur rank finisher.     

Your level of boredom with the Noisemaker rank was likely a little amplified by you having played my easier packs back-to-back with this one. If you're basically waiting 150 levels (Paralems) + whatever number of Pit Lems levels was easy for you + 40 Noisemaker levels for a real challenge, you need quite a lot of patience. This will be less strenuous when the Noisemaker rank is the first thing you encounter from me as a level creator - which I assume will be the case for most players, since only LWT is available for New Formats so far.

Also, just the fact that the real, exciting stuff actually begins with Amateur 29, while everything before that were simply tutorial-like levels that aren't really tutorials in the sense of teaching what each skill does, but instead skill combinations and tricks. Once I got to Amateur 29, my excitement for LWT really kicked up to 11. Ah, see what I did there? Haha.
 

I don't quite understand how the Noisemaker levels can be boring and challenging at the same time, though? Unless the challenge is about execution difficulty (I recently played that "I am A.T." remake in Lemmings Plus I), which I tried to avoid as much as possible in LWT, I don't see how these too things can go hand in hand.

Yea, challenging and boring does sound very strange indeed. For sure it applies to execution challenges, but perhaps for difficult levels they are boring when they can't be solved at first? Once again, I expected to be able to breeze through the Noisemaker rank and up through Amateur 28 very quickly just to get the boring tutorial-like level styles done and over with, particularly since I pretty much knew all those tricks already, but that was most certainly not the case. I guess it was more of the fact that the unusual high difficulty put me off more than it usually did, and it is certainly all over the place, with it being much worse in the Noisemaker rank. Also, I think you're right about how I'm currently playing your third pack shortly after I finished both Paralems and Pit Lems. Maybe if I had spaced out the timing of the playing of the packs, maybe I wouldn't be put off as much as I was when I played through the first two ranks. 

I also consider Noisemaker 8 - Glide and joy to be another unusually difficult level

I agree, which is why I made the pre-level text more explicit about the required trick.
Sadly, I'm pretty sure the precision you mentioned here is required to actually enforce Glider usage at this point: If the lower platform of steel just stuck out slightly below the steel pillar, you could just build over there regularly and wouldn't need the Glider - a regular Faller would also survive. Can't have that!

Good point! I totally didn't think about that.

Finally, not a difficult level per se, but I consider the trick needed in Noisemaker 33 - Mein kleiner gruener Kaktus to be an extremely obscure one for less experienced players.

This particular trick I actually discovered by accident while playing one of IchoTolot's levels. And that one didn't include an introductory hint.
I agree this trick is obscure, which is why the level is rather late in the Noisemaker rank. But since this is one I actually found myself without any hints from the forums, replays etc. (in contrast to many of the other tricks featured in this pack!), I'm inclined to consider it easier than some of the other tricks the player is supposed to learn here.

I believe I also discovered this trick by accident as well in a Lemmini level pack. It might had been Pimolems, or it might possibly had been Lemmings Reunion. I really don't remember.

Finally, a big issue with the pack is that it tends to take quite a while for the level preview to load up. The worst offenders in the Noisemaker ranks are the two artistic levels I just mentioned, Octopus's Garden and Vegas Lights. The latter takes the longest out of all the Noisemaker levels to load up.

In these cases, it's because of tileset mixing. Occasionally, this may even lead to Old-Formats NeoLemmix crashing, as mentioned in the starting post. It's not going to affect your progress / save game, though; simply restart NeoLemmix and open the level again.

Some of the graphic sets simply have long loading time becaues of high resolution, though, even if you're not mixing them. For example, all of GigaLem's Freedom Planet tilesets. You may have noticed that the Pit Lems levels "Arigato, Lemming-san!" and "You want it, you got it!" also take a good amount of tile to load for this reason.

Even the ones that don't tileset mix also take some time to load, although most certainly not as much as the ones that do or the high-res ones. In New Formats, the level previews literally load up practically right away for me, whereas for Old Formats even the classic styles without tileset mixing there's about a 3 second delay before the preview loads up. And yes, the random crashes in Old Formats is quite annoying. Luckily, they're non-fatal and won't erase all progress made. If I'm not mistaken, there's no plans to mitigate or even eliminate the random crashes for Old Formats?

This is not my Autumn tileset, it's GigaLem's remake of namida's Lemmings Plus Tree tileset. So namida is to blame for the leaf trap blending in with the trees (kind of reminding me of the boulder trap from the Dirt tileset) . GigaLem just adapted the trap faithfully.

Oh, my bad. I thought it was a tileset you made for some reason.

Although, since you mentioned the barrel, I think you're referring to the dog on the balcony? That is actually supposed to be the dog peeing on the lemming. Hence it's yellow, and there's the little puddle on top of the barrel. I think I used a different water drop trap on another level featuring a dog from either Paralems or Pit Lems.

Yes, the one on the balcony. What about the trap that sucks the lemming up to the dog's mouth? What kind of trap is it? It's one where lemmings are immediately sucked up once they step on the trigger area, so for sure it's not the sucker trap from the bubble tileset.

Precisely, new players would be completely stumped by this if the level didn't tell them about it. I never knew it was possible until I saw it done on a level - a level which I had considered impossible before that. The digger trick you mentioned in the spoiler isn't actually part of the intended solution. Nice to know, though - and yes, given the behaviour of Blockers, it makes total sense.

Yea, you're right.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I could had simply dug just before the one-way field and then bash. The one-way field will turn it around, effectively assigning a cloner skill on the basher.

Amateur 32 - Ich und mein Holz Nice level with a great solution! You, Simon, Icho, Nepster, or eric can translate the level title for me.

The translation is already included in the pre-level text: It means "Me and my wood".

Oh darn, wonder how I missed that?

Professional 13 - Tulpen aus Amsterdam I really like this level too, both the artistic quality and the solution The builder/platformer for both gaps are a bit precise, but luckily you only have to do the combo twice. Here, the flag pole was solid, so something really needs to be done about this in being able to differentiate whether it's solid or not. Although, if I'm not mistaken, only the white ones are non-solid, while any other color pole is?

Correct - the white flag pole is an object from the L2 Circus tileset, whereas the other ones are solid terrain.

This issue goes back all the way to the original design of Lemmings 2: The Tribes: On the Circus tileset, it was just the flag poles. L2 Shadow is an even worse offender with its street lights (switched on or off), phone boxes, clouds, the moon with a face, and the windows from "Georgia on my mind", all of which are objects - while the trash cans and hydrants are solid, as well as the moon from the L2 Polar tileset.

We cannot "fix" these tilesets because they are official ones. I could have refrained from using the Circus flag pole, but too often, an actually solid flag pole would have been in the way, and providing an additional destructive skill to get rid of it might have opened up backroutes. Of course, I could have refrained from using solid flag poles at all, then - but in this case, the landscape was so flat (well, duh, it's the Netherlands ) that I needed to add at least some form of altitude gain to make this more than just a "build across the water canals" level.

Fair enough. Thanks for letting me know that my guess was correct as to which flag pole is non-solid while the rest are. Of course, you can just not put in the white flag pole and let the flag just fly in the air without one, but obviously that's not possible to do in real life, so realistically it would be very out of place and just plain weird.

Professional 19 (click to show/hide)

Professional 19 - Atte katte nuva Wow, I really like this level! My favorite level of the rank so far. Not only does it look really cool with the snow falling in the background, I really love the solution! Very easy, and I like the releasing the blocker with the fencer trick from the other side which I recently learned in a United level in the Bonus rank.

Yes, this is why I consider the Fencer a criminally underrated skill, and heavily oppose people whenever they claim it's superfluous.
It's a reverse Miner, folks! Use it like a Miner!

Exactly!

Regarding you're still needing to fix and update the Encore and Groupie ranks, I'll probably just play up through the Legend rank then and stop there until the update is released. I'm one of those who hates for my momentum to halt, especially when I'm on a roll with the pack now. I was thinking of just stopping when I finish the Diva rank, but honestly I'm plowing through the levels much faster than I thought I would. I can certainly agree with your assertment that LWT is kind of intermediate in difficulty in regards to your other packs. Paralems is the easiest, LWT in the middle, and Pit Lems hard. Although there are still some levels that are unusually difficult in LWT, for the most part I haven't encountered levels that are very hard other than Amateur 37. So, I think I'm in agreement that LWT has intermediate difficulty overall just based on the first 3 ranks completed so far.

Onward to the Diva rank! Again, apologies if I'm going way too fast for your liking. Once I get to the point where I will stop my playthrough of the pack, I will switch gears and finish up resolving all of United, as well as test your LOA pack and possibly the contest entries that I haven't been able to solve if I haven't figured them out yet. There's only 2 no solves and only one level I need to resolve right now, although the latter may change depending on if the level creator releases an update that breaks my solving replay.

[kaywhyn]

Halfway through the Diva rank, so time for more replays and feedback. Replays up to Diva 20. Wow, excellent levels as usual, but the Diva levels are considerably more difficult than the ones in the previous Professional rank. The hardest one by far before the halfway point of the Diva rank was definitely Diva 19. That one stumped me real good for about an hour.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Diva 1 - Eternal flame Easy and excellent level to start off the rank

Diva 2 - Munich First splat entrance level of the pack, I believe? Pretty easy as well. Truthfully, I thought those black square blocks were steel, but luckily they aren't.

Diva 3 - Hot stuff Somewhat difficult in that figuring out the best way through the obstacles and not running out of builders/platformers isn't easy at all. Still, nice level.

Diva 4 - Lempire State of Mind Obviously a reference to the Empire State Building in New York. I visited it back in 2003 when I went on a Washington D.C trip with my middle school. I think the highest floor we went to that time was the 101st floor out of 116. Artistically, very nicely designed level! This one was another difficult one as well, especially since figuring out how to get up this very tall building is hard. Timing the first builder to have a blocker turn it is a bit difficult. Still, great level.

Diva 5 - All the single Lemmings Excellent and easy level compared to the last two. I absolutely love the solution here!

Diva 6 - Diggas in Paris There's the level from Paralems. I used a different solution in that I simply built over the Eiffel Tower. So much for digging through the tower, which is the solution I used in Paralems.

Diva 7 - Born this way Not a difficult level per se, but rather difficult to execute. Concept-wise, it's clear what needs to happen: Swimmers use the bottom left exit, climbers use the top exit, and floater/gliders use the bottom right exit. Nice level, though.

Diva 8 - Dragonstea din tei Ahaha, I remember when I first found out about this song from my sister back when I was either in high school or in the early years of college. "Numa numa yea, numa numa numa yea" (not sure about the word that's different from the "numas"). Good level, although I might had backrouted this level, since I don't use the blocker or collect one of the basher pickups.

Diva 9 - I won't hold you back Excellent level and solution! I initially tried the bottom left path, but realized it won't work after a few minutes, so that's a pretty good red herring.

Diva 10 - Umbrella Another excellent level with a great solution! I'm not sure if it's possible to solve without raising the RR like I did at the very beginning.

Diva 11 - Don't cry for me, Argentina Easy level. Nothing too special here. Ok looking level.

Diva 12 - Walking in Lemphis Another level from Paralems I believe? I used pretty much the exact same solution here as I did for the Paralems version.

Diva 13 - Brick house Somewhat easy. Nothing too special here either other than it's aptly named.

Diva 14 - Foot of the mountain Nice somewhat easy level. Not very difficult, but at the same time the soluton isn't trivial either. I like how you need to send three lemmings to forge the path.

Diva 15 - If you're going to San Francisco Always a very nice city to visit, although certainly not the place I would permanently settle in since it's too cold for my liking. I'm also very spoiled by the warm, sunny weather in SoCal, having lived in the southern region of California my entire life. This one was difficult, although certainly the hardest part is figuring out the best way to get up and onto the outer parts of the Golden Gate Bridge. Probably would had been better with the pillar tileset since it's pretty close to the "golden" color.

Diva 16 - Puff, the Magic Dragon I really liked this one! Very nice solution, especially with the bombing the wall with a glider and having a glider get into the hole to make a splatform for the crowd. Also, nice hidden zapper trap from the bubble tileset in the dragon itself, which definitely took me by complete surprise. Again, I haven't been playing these levels with CPM activated at all. Really, I'm just taking the hidden elements of surprise as they come. At first, I thought the basher skill shadow being cut short was due to no more terrain to bash through when in actuality it was due to the zapper trap.

Diva 17 - Believe in life after Lemmings "Do you believe in life after love? I can feel something inside me say, I really don't think you're strong enough, no." Couldn't resist here either haha. I also really liked this level! Nice use of two tricks here, sealing a basher tunnel and sending a climber while a basher tunnel is in progress in order to bash the OWW.

Diva 18 - Royals This should be a very bad backroute, considering I don't use the two pickup skills at all.

Diva 19 - Barcelona I don't remember if Barcelona was one of the cities of Spain that I visited when I went on my high school's Europe trip back in 2007. I think we just stayed around the Madrid area. As I already mentioned, this level stumped me real good for an hour, and this is by far the hardest level of the Diva rank so far. There might be some in the second half, but that remains to be seen. I ultimately brute forced it and stopped a digger from the left entrance with a miner from the second entrance from the left and was able to lose two lemmings, one of which a bomber was used, and so I have a bomber leftover.

Diva 20 - Only time Much easier than the previous level. Nice use of preplaced radiation zombies to free the top entrances.

Needless to say, the difficulty has ramped up considerably from the Professional rank. The levels started getting really difficult as I got closer to the halfway point, and there were certainly some tough ones in the first 10 as well, although not as much. Well, let's see how the second half of the Diva rank goes. 

[kaywhyn]

Diva rank completed and thus halfway (160/320 levels solved) through with the pack already. Here are my replays up through Diva 40 and feedback. In contrast to the first half, I felt the second half of the Diva rank was overall much easier.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Diva 21 - Let it go Excellent level! I really liked this one and the solution I did have some trouble, but that's only because I kept placing the platformers in the wrong places. The animating falling snow is great too. Elsa's made an eternal winter in the level.

Diva 22 - Wrecking ball Nice and easy level as well. Not sure what the stoner is for. It's very easy to save everyone.

Diva 23 - YerushaLem shel zahav Ok level, although I probably made it harder than I needed to. In my solution, there is a tiny piece of land that the glider lands on in the digger pit so that it's able to glide into the exit. Without it, it will die to the bottomless pit.

Diva 24 - Rolling in the deep Ok, this was pretty frustrating, not because of the hidden traps (already know that from the first version played earlier in the pack) but how to get past all the traps while only losing 1 lemming. Probably the hardest level in the second half of the rank. I initially tried compression, but I would always end up losing 1 too many, and so I ended up using a different solution which involves fiddling with the RR so that I could bomb the second lemming on the stack early enough so that the stacker lemming can progress further without being hindered by the stack. The rest of it was avoiding the triggers by going underneath or building over them before the rest of the crowd can catch up. According to Arty's LP, he was able to get compression to work. Turns out that I had the stacker in the wrong place. Nevertheless, both versions of the octopus level are quite difficult.

Diva 25 - Touch my body My solution seems a bit fiddly and I might had backrouted it? Lots of skills leftover. It's practically the same as Arty's, except I take advantage of the fact that you can stone the blocker and bash the terrain it makes.

Diva 26 - Simply the best I'm not sure what the point of this level is Way too easy.

Diva 27 - It must have been Lems Way too easy as well. Nice level, though!

Diva 28 - Call me Yet another really easy level. Not sure what blocker pickup is for. I didn't even use it!

Diva 29 - Cotton-Eye Joe Somewhat easy. The only thing I'm quite surprised by here is how the cloned glider was able to not get stuck in the updraft if assigned at the right time.

Diva 30 - Something in the water I've heard this reference before, but I forget what it's referring to. A fish or shark maybe? Of course, I'm sure it refers to what the pickup skills resembles. Anyway, too easy.

Diva 31 - Burn Somewhat difficult in that you can't waste any of your platformers. Also have to cancel a miner with another. Being able to assign a platformer to a miner will probably escape many players, although I've known this fact for quite a while, and hence the level wasn't as hard.

Diva 32 - Weisse Rosen aus Athen More tricky than difficult in that it's not easy to figure out how to get both crowds up to the exit. The right entrance is easy, the left isn't that much harder, but it will need help from the right entrance.

Diva 33 - Titanium Nice easy level! Definitely deviates in that normally one bashes/mines OWWs, but here it is necessary to build over the OWW at the top, as you don't have enough bashers for all the OWWs.

Diva 34 - Out of L.A Ok level in that it's a bit tricky to figure out. Builders may be plentiful, but don't be fooled, as pretty much almost or all of them will be used. Here, I had 1 leftover. I don't suppose the level isn't any specific location in LA but rather just how there's a lot of skyscrapers? I attended college in LA for 4 years.

Diva 35 - Total eclipse of the builders Nice repeat level that's definitely different from the original. Not that much harder, it's still easy, and I like the solution.

Diva 36 - Horehronie Way too easy.

Diva 37 - Ebony and ivory "Live together in perfect harmony." Great song. Once again, builders may seem plentiful, but all of them were used in my solution. Skillset is also quite tight, but overall it's not a difficult level, just tricky to figure out the best route to take.

Diva 38 - Set fire to the rain O.o I like the falling rain in the level, and it definitely makes the level aptly named. Very nice puzzle! I absolutely loved the solution here. The left entrance can be quite tricky to figure out, but I didn't find it that bad. Plus the skillset lends itself extremely well so that one can quickly deduce what needs to be used to temporarily contain them while one goes on ahead.

Diva 39 - My Lems will go on Very nice level, both the design and puzzle! 1-of-everything to boot too. Nice recreation of the Titanic and the infamous iceberg that sank her. Clearly the title is a nod to the movie Titanic, which features the title track "My heart will go on." I love Celine Dion. Great and powerful voice. I surprisingly haven't seen the movie! As for the level, the only difficult part is with the leftmost hatch in how to isolate a worker lemming while ensuring no one else slips past the stack. This was probably my favorite level of the entire rank.

Diva 40 - So Wat? (I'm still a rockstar) Somewhat easy to finish off the rank, although can be a bit tricky to figure out. It's a nice looking level, though.     

Onto the Rockstar rank!

[kaywhyn]

Rockstar rank half completed. Here are my replays up through Rockstar 20 and my feedback. Lots of really good levels in this batch despite the difficulty being somewhat high or about the same as the Diva rank!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rockstar 1 - Heavy Metal Universe Good somewhat easy puzzle to start off the rank.

Rockstar 2 - School's out This was a pretty good level that is a bit tricky to figure out. Initially I kept trying to block at the very end on the lower level, as well as bomb a faller and digger the top wall so that it's not splat height, but it doesn't work too well, especially since if any turn back they'll fall into the quicksand.

Rockstar 3 - C'mon Lemming, light my fire! This was also a very nice, short and easy puzzle. I like how one climber needs to be sent up to bash, another needs to turn around in the basher tunnel to mine the crowd out, and a third climber needs to bash the miner tunnel made so as to avoid the fire coal box.

Rockstar 4 - Staying alive Ah, I love this song by the Bee Gees. I really liked this level! Though it may seem counter-intuitive, you want to delay the glider assignment so that a cloned glider can get onto one of the honeycomb tiles to make a splatform for the crowd that comes out of the hatch fast. This still gives the worker lemming enough time to platform the water gap before any drown. This level took me about 7-10 minutes to figure out.

Rockstar 5 - Ace of Spades This was tricky, but it's still a nice level. I like how you depicted each of the four different card suits here. The hardest part is containing the crowd at the very beginning. It involves quickly bashing first, then digging down, then bashing with the next lemming that comes just as it falls into the digger pit so that the following lemming can still turn around and get trapped in the digger pit. Once you are successful with that, the rest of the level is easy.

Rockstar 6 - Crazy train More tricky than difficult to figure out, but still a nice looking level and puzzle hopping from train section to train section.

Rockstar 7 - Otherside I really liked this one too! Probably my favorite of the first half of the Rockstar rank.

Rockstar 8 - Highway to Hell Way too easy. I also liked this one. 1-of-everything, but the only skill I didn't use was the climber.

Rockstar 9 - Leaving on a jet plane Not a difficult level, just tricky due to the travel suitcases. A bit builder heavy, but it's fine.

Rockstar 10 - Another brick in the wall I think this is a really bad backroute. So many skills leftover.

Rockstar 11 - Banditi di Praga This one was a bit difficult, with the middle with red brick structure the most difficult part and also ensuring that you have enough destructive skills for the end. Really nice looking level, though!

Rockstar 12 - I want out Excellent level! I really loved the solution here. Not too difficult but at the same time not trivial either. This is probably my second favorite of the first half of the rank.

Rockstar 13 - Under bergets rot Not too different from the original version in terms of the skills provided, but the major difference is that here you cannot delay the crowd and keep them in the starting area. Still a good level.

Rockstar 14 - Boulevard of Broken Lems Whee, splat hatch level. Still very easy, though.

Rockstar 15 - Viva Colonia! Ah, there's the level that Icho found that was broken due to the glider opening its glider too late in order to use the updraft. In the New Formats version, I was able to solve it without using the glider, meaning the level was still solvable even with the broken glider physics. Still, since it ruins the intended solution, the best thing to do was to fix the updraft placement so that the lemming can use it to glide upwards. As for the level, it can be a bit tricky, but it's not too terribly difficult.

Rockstar 16 - Sweet Lem o' mine O.o this was an excellent level with a cool solution that managed to stump me for a long time, about half an hour or so. At first, I thought the right entrance being preassigned swimmers was pointless, but it turns out that it's necessary in the solution. Nice! I also kept incorrectly assigning the climber to the first lemming in the right hatch, but after a while I figured out that it needs to be a glider instead. This definitely seems like a level Icho would make, so you certainly got a bit of him in your level making

Rockstar 17 - The final countdown On first glance, I was like this is too easy, but after a few seconds playing the level I noticed there was a time limit, which then quickly changed my mind. Even with the very tight timer, it's still very easy. Very nice level and solution. I really liked this one. If you're not aware, I love time limits in this game, so it was very satisfying to beat the clock here. It's appropriate considering the level title anyway.

Rockstar 18 - In the shadows I was a bit annoyed with the repeated stoning to avoid the stomper traps, but luckily only 3 each are needed for both. Other than that, I really liked this level as well. I think this is the very first level where I see that a swimmer will climb a wall instead of dive underneath if assigned one, so I got to keep that in mind. I did realize that a climber needs to scale the wall, but for a few moments I wasn't sure if it could do it, since I assumed (incorrectly) that it would dive underneath instead of climb. Guess climbing takes precedence?

Rockstar 19 - Run to the hills This was a really good zombie puzzle! Another level with a timer, but definitely justified to ensure that the player doesn't wait around for all the zombies to die to the dragon trap before solving. This was actually tricky and a bit difficult, especially since it's not easy to figure out how to avoid zombie infection, whether they're coming towards the crowd or avoiding them around the dragon trap area. Just when I thought I had the level all figured out, the crowd gets infected by a zombie as they're coming down the staircase towards the dragon trap. I probably could had saved a lot more time instead of finish with a few seconds to spare. I might had even made the solution more difficult than necessary.

Rockstar 20 - Any way you want it More tricky than difficult, but this was a really good level. The timing is quite tight for all three sections, especially for the left crowd with the bashing and the miner for the right-most entrance, but the key is delaying the second lemming in each section with a builder to allow the first lemming in each section enough time to break through or to contain the crowd in the case of the digger pit at the top.   

[kaywhyn]

Rockstar rank completed and thus 200/320 levels in the pack solved! Replays up through Rockstar 40 are attached, and more feedback. As usual, I really loved a lot of these levels and puzzles! Definitely feeling the difficulty rising faster than I thought it would and hence my progress through the pack slowing down but in a good way, since the levels are still quite manageable and doable, and the pack continues to be quite enjoyable and not too frustrating

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rockstar 21 - Dziesma par Lemmi The end part was difficult, ensuring that no one was facing right when the digger broke through I'm not sure if my solution is intended even though I use all skills.

Rockstar 22 - Summer of '69 Good song. Easy level. Nothing too special here. Only tricky part is making sure no one lands on the land above the entrance, so here I made sure to delay the last builder assignment to make sure it doesn't happen. I have a miner leftover as a result.

Rockstar 23 - Machine head This seems to be all on timing, building to the top and getting to the button so that the worker on the other side of the wall can exit before he slips past the locked exit. Other than that, not too difficult, but not trivial either.

Rockstar 24 - I'd do anything for Lems Easy level as well.

Rockstar 25 - Through the fire and flames Probably a bit easier than the original version, although there's certainly execution difficulty with the fencer through the builder at the end. I had to adjust the builder position several times before the fence finally went through the walls and builder. What might escape less experienced players is using stackers to allow a basher to continue instead of stopping.

Rockstar 26 - Sweet Home Alabama Not difficult, just tricky to figure out the best way to get through the numerous obstacles. Especially the skillset will seem to be very tight due to the huge size of the level, but it's not that tight, as I still have several skills leftover. Also, I didn't realize the spoon and folk are steel.

Rockstar 27 - Clocks Excellent level that managed to stump me for a good 20 minutes. I kept puzzling about how a climber would be released after the fencer tunnel is sealed with a stacker if the basher is used for the yellow poles near the exit. Then I suddenly remembered the basher in a fencer tunnel trick from United. Even with that, it was very frustrating getting the stacker placements correct so that the basher will continue through the yellow poles as well. I had to try adjusting so many times before it finally worked. Oh, good song as well. I pretty much love Coldplay.

Rockstar 28 - Berlin Definitely a difficult challenge without a climber to free the lemming who digs down to get the bottom button. I still loved this level a lot, especially since it was very satisfying figuring out how to get everyone through to the exit. I did have to adjust the builder placements a couple of times before the miner would go through all of it and the OWW columns.

Rockstar 29 - Hollywood Hills Good and really nice looking easy level. I thought it was going to be difficult due to the stackers, but no, it wasn't that bad at all. It might look like you can also bomb from the other end of the basher tunnel, but then the level's probably unsolvable due to needing two bombers on the left end to get up.

Rockstar 30 - Losing my religion I initially tried a lot of fiddly pointless stuff for a few minutes when I realized that the level's much easier than I think it is. Ok level, nothing too special here.

Rockstar 31 - Cold Turkey Pretty easy once you get past the tricky stuff at the very start, where you must bomb twice in order to make a safe landing for the crowd. Nice bomber trick in the pit to get the cloned basher to stop. Nicely designed level!

Rockstar 32 - Engel Way too easy and again another great looking level. I love the bombing a lemming in the digger pit to release both the digger and the crowd. It's very obvious that the stoner is needed as stepping stone to get into the exit, because you need to remember that direct drop is not possible anymore in NL, as well as only floaters and gliders can exit without any terrain beneath the exit.

Rockstar 33 - St. Elmo's Fire This one managed to stump me for about 15 minutes, but that's only because I was a dummy. In particular, I kept trying to see if I could save a constructive skill in the starting area because I think I kept being one short. Turns out to be somewhat easy. It's all about getting high enough to avoid the OWWs and being able to use only 1 destructive skill, except for the first one which in my solution required 3.

Rockstar 34 - Let me put my Lems into you Ah, there's that level from the Demented rank of Paralems. This version seemed much harder, and indeed the level was difficult for me. Since a blocker is used to turn the lemmings around to get to the top, that means you can't use the stoner. Also, I simply used a stacker right up against a couple pixels of high ground in order to turn the lemming around to make a landing bridge for the crowd to land on in order to get to the exit.

Rockstar 35 - South of Heaven Way too easy! I've already seen this trick from a level in United, where the intended route was building to the outside and then using the diggers/builders to make a builder wall. Icho's version is much harder, since all builders are used and it's not at all clear how many builders are needed to achieve the builder wall and to get to the exit.

Rockstar 36 - Streets of Philadelphia I say more tricky than difficult in figuring out the best way to get through the obstacles and where to platform so that the lemmings can still get up. Still, nice level.

Rockstar 37 - I'm your Venus O.o, very nicely designed level depicting the planet Venus. Speaking of which, perhaps you can try the entire solar system of the other 7 planets. Anyway, way too easy.

Rockstar 38 - Stonehenge In contrast, this was a really hard level and stumped me for at least a good half hour. Probably the hardest level in the entire Rockstar rank. It was thanks to CPM that I saw those gaps in the leaves and used it to my advantage to get up the level thanks to a stoner/stacker combo. For a long time, I kept using a stoner underneath the entrance and the left Stonehenge to get over the top and I was going to use the miners to get them out, but the biggest problem is that the gap before the exit is exactly one full bridge length, and by that time I was already out of builders and wouldn't have anything to turn the lemming around. You definitely did a nice job recreating the real-life Stonehenge with this level, but I was definitely frustrated by being a builder short and not being able to turn the worker around to mine the crowd out. In the end, I might had cheesed and backrouted the level, considering I have several skills leftover. Also, there appears to be no opening animation for the hatch.

Rockstar 39 - Holy Mountains Way too easy and much easier than the previous level. Very nice looking level!

Rockstar 40 - Dream On Definitely a harder repeat, but not by much. Very nice solution, though! I say more interesting than the original version, considering that you cannot mine the left crowd out with a miner due to stoners missing this time, so instead you need to get someone from the left entrance to set up the bridges in order to get past the OWW. In other words, instead of a worker from the right entrance doing all the worker, it's now reversed, where the left entrance does all the work.

Onto the Legend rank! Once I finish the rank, I will stop until an update for the Encore and Groupie ranks is released. So, this means two more posts of replays and feedback before none for a time. This will give me the opportunity to play catch up on resolving United, as well as the contest levels and playtesting your LOA pack.

[kaywhyn]

20 more levels completed, and thus the Legend rank is half solved. Replays up through Legend 20 attached, and of course my feedback. Starting to get very difficult here, but still a bunch of great levels in this batch!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Legend 1 - Bolemian Rhapsody Starting off the rank is a pretty difficult level. The solution is somewhat difficult to figure out, and the execution is somewhat difficult as well. Still, really nice level, and I love the song Bohemian Rhapsody. I haven't seen the movie of the same title that focuses on Freddie Mercury, though, which of course post-dates the pack.

Legend 2 - Purple Rain O.o that's nice animation of the falling titular "purple rain" in the background. Too bad I'm disgusted by the color purple. More of those hanging from the ceiling things which I thought were traps, but luckily there's only 1 and the trigger is visible. Very easy level compared toe the previous one.

Legend 3 - We can be heroes Very easy level despite the very high RR. Not sure if using the ceiling to turn around is intended, though.

Legend 4 - Take me home, country roads Ok, this level is just pure evil execution wise. I figured out the solution very quickly and hence it's a very easy level, but a glance at the skillset and my immediate reaction was, "You got to be kidding me. Crossing a miner AND a basher and they still both continue." I'm definitely aware that it's possible from reading your topic some time ago on levels you got stuck on due to not knowing if a certain trick was possible, such as certain skills crossing one another and whether both continue, one cancels out but not the other, or both cancel out. Very fiddly here, especially since it's very easy to cancel the miner than the other way around, let alone both continue without cancelling. Of course, if one isn't aware of this being possible, the player may rage quit or think the level is impossible.

Legend 5 - Hallelujah This one was also a bit difficult to figure out, but it wasn't too bad. One thing that completely caught me off guard by is the Moon being a solid object in this level and hence builders will hit their head.

Legend 6 - Lems in the sky with diamonds I love this Beatles song! Very easy level. I wonder if the updrafts being complete red herrings are intended, as the glider cannot glide onto the next updraft after using the previous one. In any case, my solution doesn't use the updrafts and the level's solvable without them.

Legend 7 - Lemmingrad Obviously a reference to the country Leningrad. This is a really good level, but it's extremely annoying execution wise since there's a lot of pixel precision assignments. I came up with mining through two sets of builders pretty quickly, but I was immediately disappointed to find out that the builder staircase below the updraft falls only slightly a bit short in height to allow the miner to continue. I figured it had to be part of the solution, since the skillset doesn't allow for anything else. After struggling with it for a while, I then realized the purpose of the bomber/stoner to allow another climber to build at the appropriate height to allow the miner to continue through both sets of builder staircases. Very nicely designed level, and I especially love the lemming statue where the updrafts are.

Legend 8 - Master of Puppets This one was a difficult level to figure out, especially the end part of how to get to the button buried in the wall and then later both crowds up to the exit. Even the middle with the toys/toy traps was difficult to determine the best way to get through. In the end, I have a bunch of climbers leftover.

Legend 9 - Eye of the Tiger Easier than the previous level, just difficult timing wise if compression is supposed to be used to minimize losses to the cat traps. In particular, getting the glider close to the worker lemming after digging through the branch was tricky to achieve. At least a walker is provided in case the non-glider falls in the wrong direction after the digger gets through.

Legend 10 - Wind of change Too easy. Nice looking level, but nothing too special here.

Legend 11 - Living on a prayer Not much more difficult than the original version. Plus, I might had cheesed and backrouted the level, since I have so many skills leftover.

Legend 12 - We will rock you Good song by Queen. Very easy level. Nice trick of using a platformer to allow the basher to bash through both sets of green pillars.

Legend 13 - Nothing else matters I might had severely backrouted this level. Tricky but not a difficult level. Just need to get a lemming to go to the left so that he can platform to the right, and also get another lemming to turn around after the up arrows on the thin floor to platform to the left so that by the time the crowd arrives none will fall through before they're done.

Legend 14 - Can't get no satisfaction? I really liked this level! Very nice solution

Legend 15 - Waterloo Somewhat easy level despite the zombie horde coming for the regular lemmings. The only tricky part is getting rid of the zombies, but once you successfully get rid of them, it's a really easy level.

Legend 16 - Bridge over troubled water Not too different from the original version other than no miner this time to trap the crowd while a lemming goes on ahead to forge the path and bridge the water gaps. Still an easy level.

Legend 17 - Y. Lem. C. A "It's fun to stay at the Y.M.C.A" Love this song a lot. Way too easy, and other than a nicely designed level with the "M" being in the shape of a lemming, nothing too special.

Legend 18 - Comfortably numb This one is quite difficult. The hardest part is getting the lemmings up to the exit area, especially since you only have platformers to work with to close gaps, the main drawback being that the skill does not add height. To make it easier to get up, you have to block a miner midstroke and release it with another lemming close by without destroying the miner staircase. The platformers may seem plentiful, but I ended up using all of them in my solution. Also, this is the very first time I have seen the apple worm trap. Really nicely designed level. Looking at it sure makes me hungry

Legend 19 - Imagine Not a difficult level to execute, just tricky timing wise. Still, nice level and solution, especially with getting a climber to turn around near the end of the miner tunnel to bash out the lowest group

Legend 20 - Don't stop believin' O.o this is a really good and easy level! Very nice solution of using the lemming from the left entrance to dig away the floor to allow the lemming from the right to get out via swimmer and climber. I also love this song of Journey's a lot. Even the train mentioned in the song is here in the level. Nice!

yes kaywhyn: I can translate Amateur 32 Ich und mein Holz = means Me and my Wood. In germany expecially at christmas time they make alot of wooden things like NussKnackers(Nut crackers). and other wooden things. Also this is another reason I want to go to germany in the future at Christmas time to see alot of the christmas markets. Also maybe like 6 months ago I bought a german kuckucksuhr(cookoo clock) which is made
mostly of of wood too. The clock also actually got sent from germany too. It plays 12 different german tunes. very nice. Also Strato(I think), Icho and Simon all live in germany. This is why I'm really fond of Icho. Also I like when Icho puts german titles for some of his levels(reunion and even United). Also even for my Angry lemmings I have a couple of german .ogg tunes. Like Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann(very well known german folk song)
means My father was a wanderering Man.

Thank you for a detailed explanation of the level title, even though you're late to the party here, as it's already been long after I have solved the level and Strato had already explained to me that the translation was in the pre-text. And yes, Strato, Icho, Nepster, and Simon are all from Germany. Still, this isn't the only one in German, there are several others in the pack.

All rightie, one more post of replays and feedback when I finish up the second half of the Legend rank, and then temporary break from the level pack until an update for the final two ranks is released. Still loving this pack a lot!

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, 20 more levels solved and thus the entire Legend rank is completed. My replays up through Legend 40 are attached, and as usual my feedback.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Legend 21 - Kashmir Nice level featuring a variation of the basher/tunnel trick, where instead of bashing right at the fencer tunnel, must bash a tunnel to get to the fencer tunnel and use it to get to the OWWs. Once again, saw the solution quickly, just annoying to pull it off.

Legend 22 - Blowing in the wind This one was easy, although I'm not sure if my solution is intended since I avoided using the radiation. Still, nice level involving how to eliminate the zombies guarding the top exit, as well as the zombies that can climb. I got rid of them by making a digger pit deep enough for them to splat.

Legend 23 - Wish you were here Another very easy level. It appears that putting the slowfreeze out of the way completely was deliberate and intended.

Legend 24 - Let my Lems open the door Ok, I definitely backrouted this level, since I don't even disarm the trap. There's enough resources to avoid the trigger from both sides. Here, I used a builder from the left and then a stacker from the other side. Nevertheless, this repeat seems somewhat easier, although I have a feeling that they're both difficult in their own right had I not been able to backroute this one.

Legend 25 - I will survive Way too easy. Here, I used the left crowd to come to the right entrance's aid. Also, not sure if my solution is intended or if it's open-ended.

Legend 26 - Time to say goodbye This one was quite difficult. In particular, the beginning is the hardest part, and the solution is very difficult to spot. It took me a long time to come up with this solution, especially platforming over the tiny gap in the rope instead of using a stacker to get over it. Nice use of miner cancelling for the exit area.

Legend 27 - Thunderstruck Ugh, I knew there were hidden traps, but I didn't make that connection even when I saw that the glider skill shadow was cut short. Then, zap and took me by surprise. Then again, the zapper traps are quite appropriate, since I understand that the dark grey clouds are supposed to be thunderclouds and hence the lemmings get zapped by lightning. Definitely a nice touch to the level! Also, the zappers being hidden is perfectly fine, since I believe in real-life you can't even see the lightning until it flashes. Anyway, despite the hidden traps, this was a very easy level, but I'm not sure if I also backrouted this level by taking the ceiling or if that route is intended. Also, by taking this route those gliders at the very beginning were unnecessary, and so I could had saved a couple more. Guess I was just being dumb.

Legend 28 - Just a little bit... Not difficult, just tricky in figuring out how to optimize your resources. Despite there being a lot of bashers/diggers/builders, they surprisingly run out fast.

Legend 29 - Africa This was a really good level! The solution is quite ingenious. Nice job. Nice looking level too

Legend 30 - Knocing on Heaven's door Also a really good level with an extremely great solution, although this was a bit difficult to figure out. The tricks of sending out another climber while the second builder was in progress, as well as bashing into a stack and building so that the climbers can't climb out and die, were clever! Since the solution relies on the ceiling, I'm thinking about how you managed to make this level work in New Formats, since the ceiling is deadly there. I'm guessing you simply covered the ceiling up with terrain.

Legend 31 - Ganglem Style Ah yes, the huge hit song that made Psy famous several years ago. I'm guessing the music video continues to receive a lot of views today. This one was quite difficult. I figured out building in a digger pit to contain the top crowd and using the upside down stoner to save the bottom entrance from dying to the bottomless pit quickly. The rest after that weren't as obvious. The main difficulty lies in optimizing your builders to get up to the exit after using fencers and stoners to turn around.

Legend 32 - A whiter shade of pale Nice short and easy level. The only difficult part is the very precise placement of the stacker so that only one lemming gets trapped in between the stacks after cloning it, which is then assigned a climber to get the crowd up to the exit through the thin ceiling.

Legend 33 - Housing of the Rising Sun Nice repeat of the original, where the entrance and exit swap positions. Almost like a Reverse Lemmings pack for the level. The repeat gives the appearance of being easier than the original, but don't be fooled, for resources here are still tight considering the huge level size. Here, I avoided using the teleporters, although I suspect that it's still possible to use the one inside the house to get to the top part of the level, and so I could had made my life much easier. Perhaps all that's needed was a digger pit so that all of them can still teleport despite overflow. My solution uses all the builders.

Legend 34 - Purple Haze Nice puzzle and somewhat easy level here! It can be a bit tricky to isolate two lemmings on the left side after platforming the bomber hole in the starting area, but even if you only get one lemming trapped, a climber is provided in case that happens. At first, I wondered if the exit area is splat height, how to get the lemmings down safely. I quickly figured it out by bombing the lemming when it gets on top of the terrain so that there's a tiny hole in the platformer bridge to allow another worker to fall a bit lower on the terrain to platform to the right and therefore makes the fall safe.

Legend 35 - Scarborough Fair I really like this 1-of-everything puzzle! Very easy, although I found out that the stoner isn't necessary in order for the lemmings to exit. That's the first solution I found, but the replay I attached in the zip file does use the stoner.

Legend 36 - The Phantom of the Opera I have seen both the movie and the Broadway show when I was in Vegas back in 2007 with my high school's choir tour. Nice, easy level as well. The only difficult part is turning a lemming around to bash through the flag so that no one else gets past the platformer bridge. Using a short basher tunnel did the trick. I also probably could had saved a few extra lemmings had I used the extra platformer I had leftover for the middle gap at the bottom.

Legend 37 - Breaking the law Yup, I do believe you have succeeded in making your hardest level ever, although that might not be true anymore considering I still have LOA to look at. Clearly the hardest level of the rank. This level managed to stump me for probably a good hour or so. I initially tried a lot of other stuff before coming up with an extremely fiddly solution that takes advantage of the fact that miners can still continue despite making a very tiny hole from which lemmings in the other direction can fall in. That one was extremely difficult to get right timing wise so that only the miner and possibly only one other lemming is heading to the left, which I wasted a builder in turning the non-miner around. Also, in this solution I wasted the stacker on the left unnecessarily in the platform below the one the top entrance falls on. I'm guessing you intended for a digger to continue by digging through the top platform with the help of the stacker, as well as a basher to hit all 3 brick walls in the middle. I definitely tried several times to try and make that work, but I couldn't, especially since I would waste too many builders to get the setup right, if it's even possible.

Legend 38 - Thriller Iconic song by Michael Jackson. Of course there's zombies in this level, since they were in the music video. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be this easy with the solution I came up with in my replay. Just bashed the ceiling to sacrifice one lemming to get the zombies away from the exit. After they all got trapped at the bottom, short digger-basher staircase, then one final builder to get the lemmings home.

Legend 39 - I will always love Lemmings This one was difficult to figure out. For a while, I kept thinking I needed to beat the crowd before they arrived to the worker lemming in the bottom left so that I'm able to block and turn the builder to get to the exit. Then, I noticed that the wall on top of the bridge is high enough so that the lemmings can't get past without being a climber or fencing/building. That's when I realized that I simply overcomplicated the solution in my head and the level is easier than I think it is. Still, the level's difficult to figure out due to the very tight skillset. If timing the climbers to block at the end of the builder staircase to turn the builder around to build to the exit, you can simply stop the miner going to the right with a builder. However, you can simply avoid the timing completely of releasing a climber to block by using the miner cancelling trick, therefore avoiding the need to use a builder to stop the miner. Also, the only entrance in immediate danger is the top right, so that can be a difficult to figure out, but once you're successful in not losing any lemmings there, the rest of the level can be done as usual according to the replay or a slight alternative in the bottom left.

Legend 40 - The Time of my Life I thought this one was going to be difficult, but this was surprisingly easy for me for the final level of the rank. This one is probably my favorite of the rank Really nicely designed level to boot. I love the fencing through a builder to get past the final two walls with the right-most entrance.         

@eric ok, push has come to shove here, and with your most recent post you've pushed my buttons. Please stop spamming the level pack topics with "I've watched the replays." No one cares. You watch them at your own leisure, because there's absolutely no need to inform Strato or anyone who's actually playing the pack of anything that might had broken. Of course the replays work, I solved the levels myself and therefore can easily verify they haven't broke. You have your own replay topics, you can say it there instead. We already had this conversation, so it's starting to annoy me for repeating myself. In case you're not aware, you've gotten most of the community annoyed with your spam. I've been trying so hard to be patient with you, but it has reached its end. Enough is enough. If you were actually playing the pack and trying, it wouldn't be as bad.   

With 6 ranks completed, you now have confirmation from me that none of the 240 levels I have solved broke and that they're all still solvable. Also, it's time for me take a temporary break from the pack until an update for the Encore and Groupie ranks is released. No rush, take your time. I'll be busy taking care of other things Lemmings-related in the meantime. Happy viewing/fixing

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks a lot for playing, kaywhyn! Especially in Old Formats! Once I've fixed Encore and Groupie and when you return to play those final two ranks, you are probably going to be the first person to have beaten the pack in Old Formats, i.e. including the radiation- and slowfreeze levels.

@eric ok, push has come to shove here, and with your most recent post you've pushed my buttons. Please stop spamming the level pack topics with "I've watched the replays." No one cares.

In general, I couldn't agree more, but I didn't see eric mention that in his last post in here, in particular? He just talked about the level "Ich und mein Holz", plus a bunch of other stuff.
Did some moderator delete another comment of his that escaped me?

I will inform you when I have watched the replays, though , because that goes along with telling you which of your solutions were intended and which weren't.

I'm definitely already curious about your solution for "Breaking the law"! Sounds like an alternative solution, but as long as it gave you enough of a challenge, I'm probably going to be fine with it...

[kaywhyn]

In general, I couldn't agree more, but I didn't see eric mention that in his last post in here, in particular?
Did some moderator delete another comment of his that escaped me?

He posted in this topic a couple of hours ago mentioning watching the first 3 ranks and which talismans were missing, but he apparently posted it while I was still typing up my feedback. That's when I went back and edited my post to let him know that stuff like that is very annoying, so I'm certain he removed it before you got the chance to see it. I'm sure other pack authors would be annoyed with similar posts of "having watched replays" in their own level pack topics as well. Like yea, there's no need to confirm that everything still works, because again I solved the levels myself, so obviously I can confirm my own replays work. Don't need to point stuff out like that for the pack author and whoever happens to be playing the pack, especially if you're not going to take the time and effort to actively try and solve the levels.

I will inform you when I have watched the replays, though , because that goes along with telling you which of your solutions were intended and which weren't.

Sounds good!

[kaywhyn]

I know I said a few weeks ago that I was going to wait until you released an update for the Encore and Groupie ranks, but going by what you mentioned in the New Formats topic for LWT of there being no backrotues except the level Twilems, which you might possibly change, I went ahead and completed the Encore rank. My replays up through Encore 40 are attached.

Yup, they were all too easy, considering they're just levels taken from Lemmicks, Paralems, and Pit Lems, all of which I have played, the latter two I completed very recently, while Lemmicks was several months ago. Even with 40 levels in the rank, it took me about an hour and a half to solve the entire rank. Also, I solved all of them from scratch again, rather than waste my time and hunt down a working replay for the level, since my replays are saved in the format of rank and level number, not by level title. The Lemmicks levels were obvious, while others I couldn't remember if the level came from Paralems or Pit Lems. Some of them I knew which pack it came from, but not all. Seems like for those levels that have repeats, that only the originals were picked for the rank, not the harder repeat. I guess it's coincidence that the original happened to be a song title while the repeat version isn't. For the Lemmicks levels, despite the solutions being new due to the gimmick they originally relied on absent, they were still very easy, possibly way easier now than in said pack they originated from.

Regarding any potential fixes for the Encore rank, I haven't seen Icho's replay for Twilems, so I don't know if you might change the level based on my replay for it as well. The only other concerning level in the rank, at least from what it looks like to me, would be Encore 17 - Lem to the slaughter. I'm quite certain that is a severe backroute, and I don't think I solved it this way when I first played the level in the pack it comes from, which I believe is Lemmicks? I'm sure it involves getting the swimmer hatch to rescue the other hatch rather than the way I severely shortcutted and cheesed the level here.

With the Encore rank completed, that just leaves the final Groupie rank to do, but for this one this is where I'll await an update before taking it on and finishing up the pack. Again, take your time, as I'm not in any kind of rush to solve the entire pack. I kind of gave you a lot of work with how I just finished LOA.   

[Strato Incendus]

And the update is here at last, the Groupie rank is fixed! The link in the starting post is still the same.

Some of IchoTolot's alternative solutions that used all or almost all skills are still possible, and sometimes deliberately so, because I found them awesome! But everything that's obviously a glaring backroute has been dealt with now.

Except for Groupie 39, "Not the incended solution". Here the level-preview text even announces that backroutes will be possible.

[kaywhyn]

How do I update the pack if the DL link in the OP is the same? Or am I supposed to use the OP to update it? Also, a changelog of what levels in the Groupie rank has changed would had been nice so that I know for sure that I have the latest version. I haven't played any of the rank before your update.

edit: Never mind, I figured it out. It didn't take very long. Groupie 5 was the first level I noticed where the old version didn't match the New Formats version. In New Formats, there are pickup skills, but in the old version of Old Formats, there were no pickups. I just tried the DL in the OP, and now I see pickup skills. So, I misunderstood what you meant by "download in the OP is the same."

[Strato Incendus]

Ah yeah, sorry, I forgot that in Old Formats, it isn't so easy to tell which levels changed . In New Formats, the ticks next to the level names turn orange, obviously.

Updated levels are Groupie 01, 05, 06, 13, 18, 27, 29, and 36. The change about Groupie 10 was merely cosmetic (repositioning of one-way arrows).

I also swapped out the exit on Diva 23, because the exit on the Sandopolis tileset in New Formats apparently had been changed by the person maintaining the tileset (Flopsy was the creator, afaik). Therefore, both versions feature a classic Pillar exit now.

And yeah, the Dropbox link always remains the same when I simply replace the original file in the Dropbox folder with the new one.

[kaywhyn]

Halfway through the Groupie rank, so you know what that means: More replays and feedback! Here are all my replays up through Groupie 20. Also, 300 levels officially solved. Wow!

In contrast to the Encore rank, which I breezed through in just 1.5 hours, it has been much slower going in the Groupie rank. The difficulty's definitely picked up again. Not necessarily a bad thing with me. Still a lot of good levels I have played so far in this batch. I'm looking forward to the levels in the second half and seeing how many more designs of others I can recognize.

To be honest, I got way more of other authors' level designs than I thought I would, and so I'm actually having a lot of fun guessing whose level it's designed after. I seriously thought I wouldn't get many right, especially since it's been a long time since I played many of the packs by authors other than Icho and namida and, of course, you. Then again, it's only been about a year since I played those packs by other authors, so I guess it make sense that I'm able to recognize some of the designs despite having not seen any or remember any of their levels by design for quite a long time. By my count, I got about 11/12 of them out of the 20 I have played. That's not too bad, actually!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Groupie 1 - When the cat's away Ok level to start off the rank. I immediately thought that this must be nin10doadict's level due to the cat trap. I still need to familiarize myself with the Food tileset, since I wasn't aware that both the ketchup and mustard are traps. I think so far I'm familiar with the apple worm trap, and to an extent the blender trap.

Groupie 2 - That's a hard level that is! Even though I have yet to play any of Flopsy's packs, just by the tileset itself I immediately knew it was Flopsy's level. I didn't think this level was hard at all, but due to the 99 RR and managing the crowd this would be a hard for Flopsy level if I'm not mistaken. It was easy for me since I'm already well aware of the glider-stoner trick in such a way that the ohno animation is skipped completely but the stoner still connects with the ground.

Groupie 3 - Waking up the neighbours Not very hard, but at the same time not trivial at all. I did not recognize this as Proxima's design. Not to mention I didn't recognize the tileset either, so that's one part of it, but also because his TM Challenge pack is the only pack of his I have played.  It's the only pack of his that he has ever released so far I think? Even then, that's not a really good indication of his style. Plus, I believe it was a collab with mobius. I have not played any contest levels by him. Good to know that this is Proxima's tileset.

Groupie 4 - Praise be to God! I totally failed to recognize this as Colorful Arty's level. I kept thinking it was Gigalem's, but I think what made me realize that it has to be Arty's is due to the basher and digger crossing in the solution. But yes, I can definitely see how it can be Arty's style of designing, especially since he's extremely good with very artistic levels. Easy level, the only hard part is making the basher and digger cross successfully. Luckily, the setup is somewhat easy. You yourself used this trick in one of the main ranks, except it was with a basher and a miner going in the same direction.

Groupie 5 - No true Scotslem Thanks to how I recently played Lemmings Migration, I immediately realized this level must be Nessy's, since I noticed he used the mine tileset a lot in the pack. This is still a huge backroute, considering I don't even collect the builder pickups! I'm not sure how you missed this very obvious one when fixing the level up. Wonder if Icho came up with the same backroute or if he solved it the intended way.

Groupie 6 - Stacks and stones The only reason I guessed Raymanni was due to the tileset itself, and yes I did play Raylems, but it was a long time ago. This was a really great level, although it was extremely annoying hearing the crackling sound all the time when the lemmings kept stepping over the piece of snow terrain that breaks away anytime they kept walking by it. I definitely could had prevented that by placing the first stoner better.

Groupie 7 - (K) itty Compression Again, I immediately knew that this was nin10doadict's level due to the cat traps. Nice and easy level, and as the title suggests compression is the way to go.

Groupie 8 - Icho chambers Obviously Icho's level, although it appears that this is half correct, as I failed to realize it's also in the style of Proxima. Now this was a hard level for me. It's definitely all about resource conservation. The hardest part for me was the bottom left, especially building up to the teleporter area after mining down to the entrance. There were a couple of times that I thought I had the level solved, but after a few time skips I realized that I had lost more lemmings than what I still needed to save. Turns out that the lemmings who walk out to the left in the teleporter that leads straight to the water drown because I hadn't prevented that from happening by building to sealing off the gap.

Groupie 9 - Wrong This was another stumping point for me, but that's because I kept thinking I had to build, then dig before the lemming takes a step, then build to turn him around. As it turns out, there aren't enough skills to do it with the blocker that got released, as well as with the lemming that releases the blocker. Then I made the connection with the climbers provided and realized that I was being a dummy and that one needs to destroy the end of the builder bridge going to the left so to allow both to climb and get to the other side so they can get to the exit. Nice level, though!

Groupie 10 - Read my lips Obviously Flopsy's due to the appearance of the letters making up SEB. Unless this is supposed to be an open-ended level, this is a backroute? I didn't collect the the 4 pickup skills on the right side at the top. At the same time, it's not a hard level, but once again it's not trivial either. In particular, resources are much tighter than they appear to be, especially the builders even though there's plenty of them.

Groupie 11 - Killed by death I didn't know this was Sqron's level until I noticed the SQ in the pre-text. I have played the snack pack, so I have played his levels before. It's been a long time, though. That reminds me I need to post my replays and feedback for that pack, as well as for Raylems. The hardest part is definitely making sure enough get past the lizard trap, because it triggers way too fast. It's also the reason why Perky 20 from Casualemmings (Super mecha gators) is giving me so many problems. Yes, I'm still stuck there. It's amazing even at a 99 RR all lemmings up until the 4th one in a row die to the trap. So, the only way to get a lemming past it sooner is to clump up the second one extremely tight with the first one so that they're almost behind one another, which I achieved via a walker skill. The rest was making sure the crowd was in a perfectly straight line so that enough will get past the trap.

Groupie 12 - Tin Limmings on this livel Here, I seriously thought this was Gigalem's level due to how he has a lot of misspellings in the pre-texts and level titles. Also due to the tileset I thought it was his. Other than Lemmings Plus Alpha and Lemmings Plus 1, I haven't played any of namida's other packs, so I definitely won't recognize any of his designs in your Groupie rank. Nice level here with a great solution!

Groupie 13 - You know you make me wanna shout ("shout" gets cut off in the level title) I'm sure my solution is a backroute. The intended solution is probably way more complicated than that.

Groupie 14 - Scot-free I had a feeling that this was also Nessy's design, and indeed your spoiler tag confirms it. I kind of recognized it due to the bridging a gap from both sides. However, the one trick that I didn't use is building over a digger pit so that lemmings are walking in only one direction. I might had been able to save the builder bridging the gap from the left with better timing, though.

Groupie 15 - Take a Byte One of the levels you showcased for the rank in the OP, and the one I immediately recognized as Wafflem's. I have also played through his Lemmingbytes pack. I didn't collect all the pickups, although I think this is more about figuring out how to get to the ones you need in order to solve the level. Obviously a miner needs to be collected. I say this level was a bit difficult, especially navigating through the waffle at the end. Another difficult part is getting past the apple worm trap at the very start, but the trap is slow, so it's not too hard to figure out.

Groupie 16 - All for love Even with an infinite amount of fencers, this level's not easy. I also happen to be really bad with stackers and how to use them to get up levels and releasing the crowd due to how it generally holds them back after the 7th/8th brick is laid down. It wasn't until after a time that I realized that not everyone needs to get be able to get up due to the seemingly generous save requirement. Also after a few attempts I realized that I can get the lemmings bunched up by assigning fencers right on top of one another. The funny thing was that I had realized this while I was CC'ing (candy crushing) because I remember that fencers will continue in a fencer tunnel even though they're not removing any terrain due to the upward slope a fencer tunnel makes.

Groupie 17 - I am E.T. I seriously thought this was Dodochacalo's style since he a similar level in his Dovelems pack. Oops I honestly don't remember any similar level in Sublems. It's been that long since I first played the pack, but I played it on Superlemmini. Here, I thought there was a mistake in the level, because I knew to make the digger-basher staircase at the end, but after running out of bashers the wall was still too high for lemmings to step up. Then, I realized that it needs to be done immediately after the climbers makes it to the top and that I don't need to spend a basher up there and could simply use a builder to turn around after digging low enough at the edge. It does make for very precise skill assignments, though. Good thing for framestepping here.

Groupie 18 - Le vent nous portera I immediately knew that this was Pieuw's design just from the French level title. That reminds me. Have you shown Pieuw this level yet? If not, right now should be good since he has finally returned after being gone for so long. I didn't use the trick from that Brick level in Pimolems for my solution, although it still uses all skills, so this should still be acceptable. Instead, I simply used a builder to seal off the bahser tunnel, which is pretty much a variation of the trick you alluded to that is used in the Pimolems level.

Groupie 19 - All you zombies Ok, I also thought this was Gigalem's, since he seems to also like zombies and I recently solved his entire zombie pack again. I totally forgot that you like zombies and slowfreeze. Oops. I don't mind either of them, although I find zombies slightly more annoying than slowfreeze. Maybe Gigalem likes radiation, slowfreeze I'm not so sure. Anyway, my solution is probably a very glaring backroute. I don't think the solution is supposed to be this simple.

Groupie 20 - Bon appetit! Looking at all those foods in the preview screen sure makes me hungry Really nice design here. I totally failed to realize there's multiple authors' design in this level. I only thought of Wafflem due to the waffle. But yes, you're right, I do recognize Arty's cake. I didn't recognize Pieuw's soda on the side, though, even though it should be recognizable as one. This level can be difficult, but it's not too hard. It's all about getting through the level with efficient skill usage.       

20 levels left in this gargantuan pack! Almost at the finish line

[kaywhyn]

And, the Groupie rank is done and I thus have solved all of the LWT pack for Old Formats! Icho may be the first to finish the New Formats version of LWT, but I'm officially the first to have all of LWT Old Formats solved. So, here is my entire replay collection for LWT Old Formats, all 320 replays. IMO, the second half of Groupie wasn't that much harder, but the final level of the pack was definitely the hardest, although certainly not the hardest level I have ever played. Not by a longshot. I also was far less successful with guessing the designer styles for the second half of Groupie.

edit: Reattached my entire replay collection due to going back and actually legitimately playing and solving Amateur 31 the right way, and unlocked the gold talisman along the way, and so I added my new Amateur 31 replay and got rid of the old Amateur 31 replay, which technically isn't really a replay of the level at all.

All rightie, onto the feedback for Groupie 21-40.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Groupie 21 - Kiwi knights in white satin Very nice level and puzzle! I really like this one. Not hard, but not easy either. I had a feeling this was zanzindorf's tileset.

Groupie 22 - We are yung Obviously this is yung's design. I have also played his first and only pack, where I agree with you there are too many walkers provided for releasing the blockers in his pack. No real challenge at all. Similarly, this level is way too easy with the abundance of platformers and builders. I ended up getting over the OWW through the top.

Groupie 23 - The Earth Song I incorrectly thought this was a Nepster design, but now that you mentioned it's a bulletride design, yes I do see the Walk in the Park level design here. I don't recall the other level of his that you also put in here. I need to dig up that pack again. It's been a while since I solved all of Lemmings Stampede. Another great level. I'm not sure if the miner cancelling trick is required, although I can't thinking of any other solution that wouldn't require it.

Groupie 24 - Dove is in the air Ok, I definitely would not had guessed Dodochacalo here, although I also incorrectly guessed him in an earlier level in this rank. I'm sure I backrouted this level, considering that I have plenty of skills leftover, the only trick I make use of is a digger cancelling another digger, and I simply use the first few climbers as delays to give the builder enough time to bridge the gap to the exit.

Groupie 25 - Part of ze Reunion I definitely knew this is Icho's, since yes he's known for his Reunion pack. Not only that, the City tileset 100% points to Icho. Somewhat difficult, but it's not too hard. Nice level as well. I definitely don't like how it's difficult to see stuff in this tileset though. Skill shadows definitely came in handy to see if the structure on the far right would stop the miner in my solution.

Groupie 26 - Clam-a-Lem-a Ding Dong I definitely knew from the level title that this must be Clam's. That reminds me, I still need to play clemmings. Perhaps I can LP that one after the ones I have planned. He appears to have also vanished from the forums, so I haven't gotten to know him at all. Ok level, also a bit difficult, but not too hard. The fiddliest part of my solution is the drop before the exit at the very end.

Groupie 27 - Deceit and destruction I also knew this is Deceit's from the level title. I have played and beaten all of Deceit's Lemmings, but it was a long time ago and on Lemmix. The final Mayhem level was also one of the last levels I managed to solve after a while. I couldn't beat it at first, but I eventually was able to figure it out on my own. Difficult only due to the 2 builders, but it was still easy for me. Digger cancelling a digger for the win again

Groupie 28 - Hiroshima Now it's time for Gigalem. Here I thought this was yours, though, since I remember you doing a Japan level earlier in the pack. Should had realized it from the tileset that this level is Gigalem's style, although to be fair I haven't played his Millas' packs yet. This was a pretty cool and great radiation level, I thought. Solution isn't that hard at all despite the radiation. I don't mind radiation/slowfreeze, though. The only hard part of the level is the end where the zombies are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the radiation at the end is placed in such a way that the lemmings will never explode before reaching the exit? I think the only way for that to happen is if the lemmings have far to drop down, giving the timer more of a chance to actually expire.

Groupie 29 - Every Geoff you take Obviously Geoff's style from the title, and I recently finished my second playthrough of his Geofflems pack. Very nice level here too! I especially loved the building to turn around trick and digging through the staircase to drop to the exit level near the end with the worker lemming.

Groupie 30 - Joga I definitely would not had guessed mobius at all. It's been way too long since I completed Mobilems. I first solved all of the pack on Lemmini, so perhaps I should revisit the pack for NL. Easy level.

Groupie 31 - Ya ochen rad Title definitely escapes me, and I certainly would not had guessed Gigalem. I really like this puzzle/level! Definitely requires some thought to solve. It's a bit difficult, but not too hard. Very nice solution. I had a feeling there were hidden masher traps, and indeed there are.

Groupie 32 - Fernando I knew this was Fernandes' style from the title. I have also played his master's degree pack from earlier this year. Starts off easy but definitely got hard as you progressed in the pack. Pretty easy level here. Nothing too special.

Groupie 33 - We don't need another hero I definitely would not had guessed Deceit here. I thought it was either a namida or a Nessy level. Both are wrong This level stumped me for about 10 minutes. In particular, the builder gap is such that the worker lemming will never turn around, so the challenge was figuring out how to get the crowd out before doing so. Still a really nice 1-of-everything level. Not sure if bashing against the OWW to turn around is intended, though I can't think of any other solution that doesn't require it.

Groupie 34 - I see fire Definitely not in a million years I would had guessed kieranmiller. I have not played anything by him at all. As for the level, this was a bit difficult, especially the beginning, but level's not overly hard. The rest of the level after the beginning is easy.

Groupie 35 - Fly me to the moon I would not had guessed Arty here either. I believe it was thanks to your Pit Lems pack that I learned the Moon object is actually solid. I always thought it was background. Just from the level title itself it's very obvious where the exit is. No real challenge at all here. Very easy level. Nice looking level too.

Groupie 36 - What does the fox say? I definitely didn't have Gronkling in mind when predicting whose style this is. I thought it was a Gigalem one or possibly someone else (don't remember who). Other than his Lemmini minipacks, I haven't played anything by Gronkling. He hasn't released any level pack yet, I believe? I wonder what's the status on his Lemmings Evolution pack now that he has returned from a very long absence. I'm very positive my solution is a backroute. I'm sure it's not supposed to be that easy This was even one of the levels you changed too. Looks like you have to fix it up some more.

Groupie 37 - Johnny B. Goode The B in the title totally escaped me and didn't point me to bsmith. I have played his small pack about a month or two ago, though it was my second playthrough (my first playthrough of the pack was several months ago earlier this year). You're absolutely right about him remaking several original Lemmings levels, as I also noted that in my feedback to his pack. Very nice no builder level/solution! This one was easy for me. Even after figuring out the solution, the other thing that also needs to be figured out is how to stop the climber from splatting after mining the crowd out.

Groupie 38 - A Mazu Grace Obviously the design is the author of Mazulems. Mazulems was pretty much the first full custom pack I have ever played, though I believe this was back when I was a high schooler and on Dos. My first custom pack on other engines was Dovelems on Lemmini several years later. I really like the solution here! I thought it was quite clever sending two climber lemmings to bridge the gaps from the other side before releasing the crowd. This was an easy level for me. The only part I don't like is how part of the steam is touching the lemmings through the builder staircase at the end. Seems that lemmings are fine if it's the end that touches them since they don't get killed.

Groupie 39 - Not the incended solution It definitely escaped me that this is your design style. I think I also agree with the community that your levels tend to have backroutes abound, although it's just like you said, you didn't have anyone test your levels/packs before you released them. You changed that with LOA. This was a really easy level despite how I was taken by complete surprise with the hidden traps in the skull. I definitely should had known those creepy looking eyes were traps.

Groupie 40 - The Grand Puzzle To finish off a very well-done and the largest level pack so far ever released is a very large level. I have not played Nepster's Final Frustration level yet, but I knew this level was his style given what I read about the level in the level pack topic. As a matter of fact, I still need to go back and finish solving Nepsterlems. I'm currently stuck on the first level of Black Hole, so I think at this point it'll be amazing if I manage to solve even just one level in that rank

Anyway, as for this level, truth be told, I initially was very intimidated by the extremely large level size. The high RR definitely didn't help matters once I started playing the level, but once I managed to stop those entrances that are heading into immediate danger, the rest of the level wasn't so bad. Needless to say, the first several skill assignments have to be extremely quick. I'm not sure how many, but I believe it's the first 15-20 skill assignments that need to be quick, so the beginning is definitely the most stressful part. However, as I just said, once you successfully manage to do all of that, the stress is eliminated and then you can take it a bit more easy. The level still doesn't become a whole lot easier, though.

I think as is true with almost everyone here and on difficult levels, builders is the skill that we all try to conserve as much as possible. Indeed, when I had made a lot of progress on the level and neared the end, I realized that I was running out of builders very quickly, and so the first thing I did after that is to find the places where I used more builders than was necessary and hence save rather than waste them instead. The destructive skills also surprisingly quickly, though I think the bashers and miners are the more problematic ones than the diggers. Due to the extremely high save requirement, it can also be really difficult to save all the blockers, especially the ones that are headed the wrong way. I think the most difficult area for me was the exit area, especially in regards to how to prevent climbers from going out to the right and dying. Also the area with the gold pillars with the two very tiny gaps can be difficult and very fiddly. The second right-most entrance area can also be difficult. After doing what I did by mining right away, I definitely could had made it easier by digging first. It's just that I didn't know where two builders would reach to seal off the gap with a lemming from the right-most entrance.

Several tricks are needed here: Digger-basher staircase, good use of delaying tactics without using builders, and either miner cancelling another miner, basher blocker turnaround, or digger cancelling another digger, and of course releasing blockers. As I'm writing this, I just realized I probably could had made the right-most entrance much easier by using the digger cancelling another digger trick. Or at least dig, block, and then dig with a left facing lemming to release the blocker.

Though I managed to solve the level, I'll be honest and that is I'm not a huge fan of this level due to how so much scrolling needs to be done, especially since it's impossible to watch all entrances depending on where you are in the level. If anything, I got extremely annoyed by the excessive scrolling that needed to be done very fast. That definitely made me dislike the level even more after I was past the initial intimidation. Because of this, a lot of pausing is needed, and it definitely makes planning the solution out that much more difficult. Looks like I echoed Icho's dislike of extremely large levels where you can't see all lemmings at once. 

Overall, an excellent pack that I would definitely recommend despite the very large size of the pack. Even better if you're musically inclined, since you'll likely be able to understand the level title references to the songs. Though, it seems that not many people are fans of radiation/slowfreeze, and if that's the case, I say they shouldn't bother with the Old Formats version and just play the New Formats version instead. As you know, I don't mind the culled radiation/slowfreeze, so I was willing to play through the Old Formats version. I wasn't playing it just to be the first person to complete the Old Formats version. Even then, there aren't that many of these levels in the pack itself, so there's still a lot of just standard puzzle levels that players can enjoy if they don't want to bother playing the radiation/slowfreeze levels. And who knows. When I do the New Formats version, I'll probably end up LPing it. It'll take an extremely long time, though, and from what I remember it's definitely very slow going at first with the first two ranks, especially since the levels in them are not your tutorials at all, and some are difficult. Of course, I'll let you know when I have started it and provide you the link

[Strato Incendus]

Damn, you're faster than I can reply to these! In a weird anachronism, I've watched your first half of Groupie before the rest of your replays (and also before IchoTolot's re-solutions for New Formats... he already announced he "re-backrouted" the levels, so I assume he found some of the same backroutes you found ).

So here are just my comments on Groupie 01-20 (click to show/hide)

01: Close to intended. As long as you compress the lemmings somewhere, I'm fine with that. The ketchup and mustard bottles aren't traps by default. It's just my evil genius that turned them into traps. Usually, only animals are deadly in my levels... but as you've seen from the occasional lightning bolt that can hit a lemming out of a thunder cloud (e.g. on "Lems in the sky with diamonds"), it's not entirely restricted to that.

02: That is a slight backroute, but a clever one. Maybe I can fix it, maybe not. I don't want to go all out on pickup skills on this particular level, since that's what Flopsy's second level, "Read my lips", is for.

03: Open-ended. This isn't based on any actual level by Proxima; it's based on his own verbal description of his level building style. Funnily enough though, as you can see from the past pages of this thread, he nevertheless was the very first one to identify his own level.

04: Intended. If you watch any Let's Play by Colorful Arty, you immediately know this level is his.

05: This level is a gift that keeps on giving with regard to backroutes. A little steel should fix this particular one, though.

06: That solution was much more complicated than the intended one, because you had the worker lemming loop around quite a few times. Still, you used all the skills, so that's fine by me! Now I can understand though why that crackle sound was annoying you the whole time, because the level took much longer with your solution. FYI, the New-Formats version doesn't have this object anymore, since it's technically an animation with no effect. And probably also because it disguises as terrain, and is therefore similarly dishonest as a hidden trap. I think namida has plans of reintroducing no-effect triggered objects, but that still doesn't mean this particular "trap" will return.

07: Intended. Just like IchoTolot's solution. Glad this approach seems to be sufficiently enforced on this level.

08: Open-ended. This is one of the levels not made in-style of IchoTolot, but a level type that IchoTolot hates (like a Hard-for-Flopsy level for Flopsy). That's why, in contrast to Groupie 03, I made the chambers interact with each other via the teleporters, as a compromise.

09: Valid alternative solution, includes the main trick.

10: Open-ended.

11: Well, that's one way to do it. As long as you use compression method and the chain staircase at the end, the level has fulfilled its minimum requirements.

12: Very nice and elegant! Btw, if this had been supposed to be GigaLem's level, I would have used his updated version of the Tree tileset. I used the classic one on purpose, because that's the one namida originally made. Also, the title is not misspelled, but written to emulate a New-Zealandic accent. If I had wanted to be particularly infantile about this, I would have called the level "All hands on deck!" instead. Though in the meantime, I've heard that this type of childish humour is actually something namida enjoys himself quite a lot, so maybe that could have been considered another "signature element" of his...

13: Not as bad as IchoTolot's initial backroute, but still too easy, you're right. At least you didn't use the Bomber to create any shortcuts. That gives me hope I might be able to stop this with a few more one-way arrows.

14: Different than intended, but not a backroute per se.

15: Open-ended. You used all the skills except for the last 2 Platformers, this is fine by me.

16: Yes, compressing the lemmings with the Fencers is intended. However, I never knew that it could be done inside the Fencer tunnel itself! I always compressed them while still on that flat surface of the wooden platform right under the hatch, and only once they had been compressed did I send them up by fencing through the stack. I guess I didn't think about this possibility because Arty originally did this with Bashers, and with those, in-tunnel compression won't work, because the tunnels are wider.

17: Intended. The SubLems level in question is "I am R.T." (pronounced like "Arty"), which is Arty's take on the Sunsoft-rank original Lemmings level "I am A.T.".

18: Valid alternative solution. I've come to accept that this level does too many things at once to specifically enforce the trick it's hinting at. But as you said, you used all the skills, and if it still worked for you to recognise this level als Pieuw's, that's all that matters!

19: Well, as simple as that was, it still required most of the skills. Maybe I can prevent it specifically by putting a small piece of steel right under the cross you used to have the Zombies walk over the Digger shaft. But if it's still possible to just dig anywhere else after that, this one might be difficult to fix.

20: Open-ended. And as you can see, no ketchup or mustard traps here!

I'll reply to your second batch of Groupie levels later, but two things from your second post of course I have to comment on:

Overall, an excellent pack that I would definitely recommend despite the very large size of the pack.

Thank you very much for recommending this pack to others!

When I do the New Formats version, I'll probably end up LPing it. It'll take an extremely long time, though, and from what I remember it's definitely very slow going at first with the first two ranks, especially since the levels in them are not your tutorials at all, and some are difficult. Of course, I'll let you know when I have started it and provide you the link

I'd be honoured to see that, of course! It would be interesting to watch in comparison, not only because you would be the first person LPing the New-Formats version - Flopsy has uttered interest in doing it, but no certain plans yet, as far as I could tell; and also, he would probably use his own music playlist again - but also because it would be the first non-blind LP.

Well, except for the couple of levels that had radiation and/or slowfreeze replaced on them, because they have slightly different solutions in New Formats. Albeit those solutions are rarely "better", just "different"... and sometimes just outright inferior versions, a mere attempt at replicating the original design.

[kaywhyn]

I totally forgot that I wanted go back and solve Amateur 31 - The Great Level of Indifference the legitimate way by actually playing it instead of simply let myself pass by not playing it, so here's a 100% solution to the level and hence the gold talisman. I have also reattached my replay collection in my previous reply above, so if you want to you could redownload that or download it if you haven't done so yet. Plus the New Formats version actually has a save requirement, and so I will have to play it anyway.

Damn, you're faster than I can reply to these! In a weird anachronism, I've watched your first half of Groupie before the rest of your replays (and also before IchoTolot's re-solutions for New Formats... he already announced he "re-backrouted" the levels, so I assume he found some of the same backroutes you found ).

Well, I'm honored. Haha I definitely had the momentum going as I was going through the Groupie rank, so I thought why stop when I'm on a roll? Yes, there was slow going at times on some levels due to me being a dummy, but for the most part the Groupie levels don't come near the brutal difficulty of some of the levels in the main ranks, especially the Legend rank, the final main rank of the pack.

Overall, an excellent pack that I would definitely recommend despite the very large size of the pack.

Thank you very much for recommending this pack to others!

This is your flagship pack. I happen to be musically inclined from a really young age, and other than the extremely boring first two ranks which I think you correctly attributed to the fact that I played your Paralems and Pit Lems in quick succession, this pack gets an extremely positive reception from me due to the so many excellent puzzles, both the extremely artistic levels and the ones that aren't as much So really, the very artistic side of the levels is an extra plus if the puzzle/solution happens to be great in the first place, which I thought most of them were. This pack never got too overwhelming at all, except possibly the final level of the pack (just due to what you need to do in the first few minutes of the level), though there were some extremely tough nuts in the main ranks, but I felt they challenged me appropriately and in a really good way

I'd be honoured to see that, of course! It would be interesting to watch in comparison, not only because you would be the first person LPing the New-Formats version - Flopsy has uttered interest in doing it, but no certain plans yet, as far as I could tell; and also, he would probably use his own music playlist again - but also because it would be the first non-blind LP.

When I do do this, should I do it post-commentary like I'm doing with United? Or should I just LP it as if from complete scratch? Even though it's not really, since it will be a non-blind LP like you said since I've already seen all of the levels. Come to think of it, I notice how very quickly I tend to forget my own solutions to other people's levels, and so I might just do the former. Then again, maybe doing the latter is better and makes for a much more enjoyable experience for both me and the viewers, especially a pack author such as yourself IIRC the longest I have ever struggled on a level in this pack was probably for a good 45 minutes or so, although I think the final level was close to an hour.

edit: After running my replays through the Replay refresher tool, I ran a mass replay check on them for the New Formats version. As I expected, several replays don't work, although I'm surprised that not as many failed as I thought there would be. 11 failed, some due to the glider issue, others for various reasons, most notably due to the ceiling being deadly in New Formats, while another 14 is undetermined (see my attached mass replay check text file for v12.10.0). Curiously, for v12.9.4, there are more problematic replays (mass replay check text file for v12.9.4 also attached). In both cases, it reports as Diva 24 not being found, although I ran my replay and it does work, so no problem there. However, it reports an error with Groupie 39 due to the generalstratomd style missing. So, it looks like I would have to go back and fix a lot of replays anyway, so perhaps this would point to doing the actual LP being the better option? Also, if I do this, I will definitely take your advice of devoting just a video to the final level, since it generally cannot be solved alongside other levels in the same session.

[Strato Incendus]

Ah yeah, thanks for adding Amateur 31; I had indeed already downloaded all your replays, so I just added this single one.

Plus the New Formats version actually has a save requirement, and so I will have to play it anyway.

Well, that's namida's fault, not mine; at some point, for some reason, he decided to make the minimum save requirement in New Formats 1. And I've already complained to him how he partially ruined this otherwise completely indifferent level with that!

brutal difficulty of some of the levels in the main ranks, especially the Legend rank, the final main rank of the pack.

Really? ^^ "Brutal" is a word I maybe would have expected for some levels from Lemmings Open Air, not from this pack. Maybe that's because IchoTolot seems to have breezed through this pack quickly and easily, so that I had already given up hope that any of those levels would pose an actual challenge to adept solvers such as you and IchoTolot.

I don't quite remember which of the Legend levels you considered the hardest, but maybe I'd have to check those specific levels again to see where you're coming from.

As for the final level of the pack: Yeah, that took IchoTolot one hour as well. It's not necessarily for difficulty per se; it's just because there's so much stuff to cover.
In the end, I'm probably happy that the New Formats editor has a pixel limit, so that I can't even be tempted to ever create such a monster again.

"The Grand Puzzle" was my first attempt at creating a Final-Frustration-like experience; in Lemmings Open Air, "Hammer-Smashed Face" is my second one.
Interestingly enough, Lemmings: Hall of Fame actually does not end with such a huge open-ended level.
But Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll might... and hopefully, that one will be much better at a much smaller landscape size.

When I do do this, should I do it post-commentary like I'm doing with United? Or should I just LP it as if from complete scratch? Even though it's not really, since it will be a non-blind LP like you said since I've already seen all of the levels. Come to think of it, I notice how very quickly I tend to forget my own solutions to other people's levels, and so I might just do the former. Then again, maybe doing the latter is better and makes for a much more enjoyable experience for both me and the viewers, especially a pack author such as yourself IIRC the longest I have ever struggled on a level in this pack was probably for a good 45 minutes or so, although I think the final level was close to an hour.

Well, if you really actually do forget your own solutions again quickly, then this might be the best chance you have to do a semi-blind LP. In other words, just running the replays over the levels with post-commentary might be a wasted opportunity. At least as long as you're not really getting stuck - which I think both of us would have good reasons to doubt, now that you've already solved the entire pack in Old Formats.

I might still do a creator's commentary later, where I can run the replays with commentary... or IchoTolot might upload his solutions for New Formats to YouTube eventually. (Which would then be the same format in which you're planning to LP the pack, so if you're both just running the replays over the levels, it would be a very similar experience for the viewer, therefore most likely redundant.)

11 failed, some due to the glider issue, others for various reasons, most notably due to the ceiling being deadly in New Formats, while another 14 is undetermined (see my attached mass replay check text file for v12.10.0). Curiously, for v12.9.4, there are more problematic replays (mass replay check text file for v12.9.4 also attached). In both cases, it reports as Diva 24 not being found, although I ran my replay and it does work, so no problem there. However, it reports an error with Groupie 39 due to the generalstratomd style missing.

- The Glider physics change was indeed only implemented in New Formats, so yes, all those replays will fail and did so for me as well. Sometimes I had to adjust the position of an updraft in a New-Formats level but had to deliberately not do so in Old-Formats.

- Diva 24 is a rerun of Noisemaker 15, so maybe there was an issue with the level IDs in the replay files? I remember I didn't quite know about the issue with identical level IDs back in Old-Formats, so whenever I created a rerun out of an existing level but then later on manually gave it a different level ID, replay files I had created before that would end up getting confused.

- Groupie 39 isn't the only level to require the strato_generalmd style; it's also needed for e.g. the level "Weiße Rosen aus Athen", for my custom white flower traps, and for the level "It must have been Lems", with my custom Builder staircases pre-placed inside the level.
So if you don't have that tileset installed (even though you should, since it ships with the New-Formats download), those other levels should have produced error messages as well.
Maybe you downloaded the styles together with the pack, but they didn't get unpacked into the right folder?
If you unpack the ZIP into your main NeoLemmix 12.10 folder, the levels folder should automatically get integrated into your levels folder and the styles folder into your styles folder. If however you unpack them directly into levels, then the styles will end up in the wrong place.

[kaywhyn]

brutal difficulty of some of the levels in the main ranks, especially the Legend rank, the final main rank of the pack.

Really? ^^ "Brutal" is a word I maybe would have expected for some levels from Lemmings Open Air, not from this pack. Maybe that's because IchoTolot seems to have breezed through this pack quickly and easily, so that I had already given up hope that any of those levels would pose an actual challenge to adept solvers such as you and IchoTolot.

I don't quite remember which of the Legend levels you considered the hardest, but maybe I'd have to check those specific levels again to see where you're coming from.

Yea, "brutal" is definitely an overstatement, since I only considered a few levels in each rank to be much harder than the rest in the same rank, and even then the hardest levels of each rank aren't very hard to the extreme. Here, I was simply making the comparison that the difficulty of the Groupie rank, while definitely harder than the Encore rank, which I easily breezed through due to having already played your Lemmicks, Paralems, and Pit Lems all in their entirety, as a whole, doesn't come anywhere near the difficulty of the main ranks, most notably the Legend rank, which I thought was definitely the most difficult out of all the 6 main ranks. The Legend rank had a lot of difficult levels from what I remember, and I considered those brutal compared to the other hard ones in the other main ranks. But yes, I am in agreement that "brutal" is a much better descriptive word for LOA's difficulty rather than LWT. LWT is most definitely intermediate in difficulty compared to your other 3 packs. In order from easiest to hardest, Paralems => LWT => Lemmicks => Pit Lems. Though, due to the changing gimmicks in Lemmicks, its difficulty is hard to place.

As for the final level of the pack: Yeah, that took IchoTolot one hour as well. It's not necessarily for difficulty per se; it's just because there's so much stuff to cover.
In the end, I'm probably happy that the New Formats editor has a pixel limit, so that I can't even be tempted to ever create such a monster again.

"The Grand Puzzle" was my first attempt at creating a Final-Frustration-like experience; in Lemmings Open Air, "Hammer-Smashed Face" is my second one.

Truthfully, the final level of LOA was nowhere near as stressful as The Grand Puzzle. Slightly easier as well, and I definitely prefer LOA's final level to LWT's final level. If you read my feedback on The Grand Puzzle, I'm not a huge fan of the level, mainly due to how I got quickly annoyed at how much scrolling needs to be done and just not being able to watch all crowds at once.

Well, if you really actually do forget your own solutions again quickly, then this might be the best chance you have to do a semi-blind LP. In other words, just running the replays over the levels with post-commentary might be a wasted opportunity. At least as long as you're not really getting stuck - which I think both of us would have good reasons to doubt, now that you've already solved the entire pack in Old Formats.

I might still do a creator's commentary later, where I can run the replays with commentary... or IchoTolot might upload his solutions for New Formats to YouTube eventually. (Which would then be the same format in which you're planning to LP the pack, so if you're both just running the replays over the levels, it would be a very similar experience for the viewer, therefore most likely redundant.)

Well, at least many of the details of my solutions I tend to forget. My United level solving commentary video series is pretty much a complement to Icho's Creator's commentary, the difference being is that I not only explain my solutions but also I give input and thoughts on the levels themselves too from a player's perspective instead of from a level designer point of view. This means that if you ever end up doing a creator's commentary for your LWT pack, I might end up doing the same thing and complement your video series with mine. Or if it doesn't happen, I might just end up actually doing the non-blind LP, and possibly just switch to post-commentary if I get really stuck, though I highly doubt that will happen at all, considering the longest I've been stuck on a level in this pack was for about a good 45 minutes or so.

11 failed, some due to the glider issue, others for various reasons, most notably due to the ceiling being deadly in New Formats, while another 14 is undetermined (see my attached mass replay check text file for v12.10.0). Curiously, for v12.9.4, there are more problematic replays (mass replay check text file for v12.9.4 also attached). In both cases, it reports as Diva 24 not being found, although I ran my replay and it does work, so no problem there. However, it reports an error with Groupie 39 due to the generalstratomd style missing.

- Groupie 39 isn't the only level to require the strato_generalmd style; it's also needed for e.g. the level "Weiße Rosen aus Athen", for my custom white flower traps, and for the level "It must have been Lems", with my custom Builder staircases pre-placed inside the level.
So if you don't have that tileset installed (even though you should, since it ships with the New-Formats download), those other levels should have produced error messages as well.
Maybe you downloaded the styles together with the pack, but they didn't get unpacked into the right folder?
If you unpack the ZIP into your main NeoLemmix 12.10 folder, the levels folder should automatically get integrated into your levels folder and the styles folder into your styles folder. If however you unpack them directly into levels, then the styles will end up in the wrong place.

I checked my styles folder for New Formats and it appears that I didn't extract all of your styles folders to my NL directory. Though, it's possible that I might had just simply used the styles manager download, but I didn't see the strato folders in the styles folder of NL, and so maybe not I redownloaded the pack for New Formats and now it fixes the error with Groupie 39 in the mass replay text file. The same problematic replays are still reported, but again that's expected going from Old Formats to New Formats.

[Strato Incendus]

Yeah, since strato_generalmd is a special tileset, not meant to add standard pieces or for others to build levels with (many members have their own "miscellaneous" tilesets for that), I doubt the styles manager will be able to grab it. It's not part of the official styles download, for sure , nor are my custom recolourings of the sprites. (But the latter are optional anyway.)

Paralems => LWT => Lemmicks => Pit Lems

Really? You found Pit Lems harder than LWT? Guess that gives me even more motivation to convert it to New Formats, then!

Sure, the focus with Pit Lems was on mechanical challenge instead of aesthetics like in LWT. But it also contains lots of open-ended "puzzles" (that are merely about resource conservation), doesn't require a lot of "tricks", and having only really been completed by nin10doadict prior to you, I doubt it was much more backroute-proof than LWT.

Also, nin10doadict was indeed able to beat the entirey of Pit Lems, but did not progress that far into LWT, as far as I know.

Well, either way, Lemmings Open Air is going to take the top spot in difficulty among my packs soon...

Truthfully, the final level of LOA was nowhere near as stressful as The Grand Puzzle. Slightly easier as well, and I definitely prefer LOA's final level to LWT's final level. If you read my feedback on The Grand Puzzle, I'm not a huge fan of the level, mainly due to how I got quickly annoyed at how much scrolling needs to be done and just not being able to watch all crowds at once.

Yes, I've read your criticism, and it very much overlaps with what IchoTolot criticised about "The Grand Puzzle" as well. That's why I had already taken it to heart and made the last level of LOA a) much smaller and b) had all the crowds contained from the start, except for the one where the camera / screen starts. This was one key difference IchoTolot had pointed out between "The Grand Puzzle" and "Final Frustration".

Last level of Lemmings Open Air (click to show/hide)

I'm not entirely content with the last level of LOA - I wish I could have provided an equal number of all skills, but nobody so far has managed to solve it with just 10 Builders (myself included). So it's 15 Builders as opposed to 10 of everything else. But the nice thing about it is that it is otherwise a 10-of-everything level with the new "10 classic skills" (classic 8 + Jumper and Shimmier). I hope this new "tradition" catches on! I must admit I'm a little tired of packs that artificially restrict themselves to the classic 8 across the entire list of levels, now that we have so many more skills. Except of course if those packs were created before the other skills were available, like NepsterLems. Then they get a free pass from me.

I can already promise that I will attempt a "Final Frustration" level again, because I think I can do even better than the last level of LOA.

[Proxima]

I must admit I'm a little tired of packs that artificially restrict themselves to the classic 8 across the entire list of levels, now that we have so many more skills. Except of course if those packs were created before the other skills were available, like NepsterLems. Then they get a free pass from me.

I'm asking out of curiosity, because you've raised this point before and it doesn't tally with my experience. Other than conversions of older content, what packs are there that artificially restrict themselves to the classic 8 skills? I know of one (Lemmings Migration), which is hardly evidence that there is a general trend. Are there others?

[kaywhyn]

Paralems => LWT => Lemmicks => Pit Lems

Really? You found Pit Lems harder than LWT? Guess that gives me even more motivation to convert it to New Formats, then!

You're welcome I'm definitely looking forward to Pit Lems remastered, though if I'm not mistaken you said it's pretty much a compilation of your best levels from Lemmicks, Paralems, and Pit Lems? If that's the case, then not much for me to look forward to other than how the backroute patched levels turn out.

I should emphasize that IMO Pit Lems isn't that much harder than LWT. As I said before, in LWT there were generally only 1 or a few levels in each rank that I found hard, and hence I certainly agree with your assessment that LWT is intermediate in difficulty. Also, there's 40 levels in each rank, and so the difficulty was allowed to be much more gradual and slower in increasing. LWT also had a lot of pre-texts, while Pit Lems didn't have as much, so in that way Pit Lems can definitely seem to be that much harder than LWT, at least for the less experienced players. I was already familiar with all the tricks outlined in the pre-texts for both the Noisemaker and the Amateur ranks, and so that's why the pack appeared a bit easier to me. However, I admit that even I need an occasional reminder of some of them. This probably means that it might be better for players to play LWT first for the easier difficulty compared to Pit Lems. At the same time, I'm the opposite in that I generally play the smaller packs first and then the bigger ones, though I occasionally digress from this and instead generally play the harder packs first and then the easier ones next, like how I did with United, regardless of pack size.

In contrast, there's only 20 levels in each rank in Pit Lems, and so the difficulty increased much faster, although the levels themselves in the ranks already start off difficult. Then again, it's possible that I might had found some levels much easier than they should be due to backroutes, considering that you haven't watched my replays for the other ranks besides Groupie, and so my assessment of LWT's difficulty is probably more diluted than it should be.

Also, nin10doadict was indeed able to beat the entirey of Pit Lems, but did not progress that far into LWT, as far as I know.

I did see some of his LP of Pit Lems, and IIRC I think there were two levels that he got hints on and did post-commentary, one of which was the checkerboard level, the other was the one I got stuck on, it was the rank finisher of the penultimate rank.

[Strato Incendus]

I'm asking out of curiosity, because you've raised this point before and it doesn't tally with my experience. Other than conversions of older content, what packs are there that artificially restrict themselves to the classic 8 skills? I know of one (Lemmings Migration), which is hardly evidence that there is a general trend. Are there others?

Well, to be fair, since I announced I would give those older packs an obvious "free pass", I think most of them would qualify for that because they are indeed that old. For example, I know that Nepster's "Return of the Tribes" is even older than NepsterLems, so obviously it only has classic skills, too - even though a pack alluding to Lemmings 2: The Tribes feels much more like it "needs" NeoLemmix skills compared to e.g. Lemmings Migration.

I looked back at when the Lemmings Plus Series started using NeoLemmix skills, and as far as I can tell, it wasn't until Lemmings Plus IV. Of course, I wasn't around at the time those packs were created, so I don't know whether namida made them in Lemmix first, or whether he had already set up NeoLemmix but hadn't introduced any new skills yet.

For packs converted from SuperLemmini, like SubLems, it's also obvious that they don't have NeoLemmix skills. And for the couple of levels Arty had to swap out because of certain skill behaviours that exist in SuperLemmini but not in NeoLemmix (like "Lemmings can't jump"), it wouldn't have made sense to introduce new skills just for those. Just like I didn't want to replace my radiation/slowfreeze levels in Lemmings World Tour with Shimmier levels in New Formats.

Then there is also Lemmings Stampede, although again, I don't quite know when it was first created.

Just in general, when I joined the forums, it already had had NeoLemmix skills for a while, yet most of the "current" content at that time (i.e. the packs held in high regard and recommended to others) still only featured the classic skills. Lemmings Migration came out new at that time and went into the same direction. I think it wasn't until I played CasuaLemmings that I encountered a new pack making excessive use of the new skills. And it wasn't until SEB Lems that a really challenging pack with new skills came along. At least that's how I remember it.

Now in New Formats, there are fortunately already many more packs that use NeoLemmix skills.

However, in my post I was specifically referring to X-of-everything levels. And so far, most packs I've seen that feature them do so in a "X of every classic skill" manner. This is true for Lemmings Plus I-III and NepsterLems above all else. I haven't seen a lot of X-of-everything levels than include NeoLemmix skills in the same quantity as X.

Maybe because we haven't even agreed yet in the first  place on what "everything" means when more than 8 skills are available .
I'm referring to both the increased panel size (from 8 to 10) and the increased number of skill types (19 as of now, hopefully 23 in the end) here.

[kaywhyn]

It's official! I'm the very first person to come up with a 100% solution to Groupie 40 - The Grand Puzzle! and therefore confirm that such a solution that was speculated to be possible is indeed achievable. Replay attached. I have therefore eclipsed everyone's records for this level, including Strato's On top of it, I even replayed the entire level again from scratch. Meaning, I didn't use my existing replay, as a lot of skill assignments had to be tweaked anyway. And, most importantly, I was willing to sit through the stress and annoyances of playing the level again just to find a "save everyone" solution. To Icho and Strato, you two are welcome

Do note that it still took me a very long time to find this solution, 1.5 hours. So, I'm hoping you can still award me for my efforts in some way, Strato Even more interesting, the solution ended up using all destructive skills except 1.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm guessing the lemming you lost is the blocker from the second entrance to the right, as that was originally the one I lost in my first solution from a few weeks ago. As it turns out, you need to get an extremely specific set up to be able to release the blocker with a lemming from the the right-most entrance. Also, you need to have a spare builder to turn him around later. This spare builder was where I originally used one to plug up both small gaps in the pillars in the middle of the level. This is the area that needs very good timing in order to avoid using the builder. That's why I allowed multiple lemmings to turn around on the blocker so as to make it easier to be able to send out a climber to the left after breaking through the pillar and therefore also sparing the builder. I do believe the only way to allow the climber to proceed further to the left is to bash with the digger lemming after he has climbed past the point where the basher will make a dent in the pillar and make it unclimbable.

And yes, this is indeed very worthy of a gold talisman, so I say go ahead and put it in!

[Strato Incendus]

Well done, kaywhyn! The talisman has already been implemented in the newest update!

With this, you also reminded me I still had three other Groupie levels to fix, so this has been done in the same update as well.

Changelog (click to show/hide)

Groupie 05: added steel
Groupie 13: added steel and one-way arrows
Groupie 19: added steel
Groupie 40: added gold talisman for saving everyone

Groupie 40 (click to show/hide)

I'm guessing the lemming you lost is the blocker from the second entrance to the right, as that was originally the one I lost in my first solution from a few weeks ago

Actually no; the one Blocker I have never been able to free was the one turning everyone around right before the exit. Or rather, I could have freed him with a Digger, but then he would have walked off to the right, dropped into the abyss and died. Your small modification of my approach, i.e. placing the Blocker inside a Miner shaft and then freeing him with a lemming dropping "into" the Blocker from above by having that lemming mine into the opposite direction (where he needs to mine anyway to allow the crowds from the left to get up) was the big reveal for me.

The rest basically "didn't matter", because it's completely up to the player how they get through the rest. As long as they save one additional Miner to do this, they at least still have a shot to save everyone.

I have attached my solution for "The Grand Puzzle" for comparison, so that you can see which Blocker I mean.

[kaywhyn]

Wow, I really like your solution way better than mine. Mine just had way too much pixel precision assignments and therefore the level felt way more stressful than it needed to be. You also saved way more destructive skills than I did, and you indeed could salvage your own solution to make it a 100%er by doing what I did Lastly, you put several of the builder assignments in different places than I did. Even more, I could see you might be able to have a builder leftover by doing the digger/basher/miner staircase when freeing the second entrance from the left at the bottom. As for having more than 1 builder leftover in the end, I highly doubt that's possible, meaning any solution to the level should end up either using all builders or all but 1. I might be wrong, though. In any case, the whole point of this endeavor was to lay claim to the speculation that a 100% solution is possible. Now we don't have to worry about whether it's doable or not. Heck, I felt you indeed could had been the very first to achieve the 100% solution

That reminds me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It appears that the basher/blocker turnaround trick works in both Old Formats and New Formats, but surprisingly doesn't work in very Old Formats, i.e, v1.43. I have tried and tried, but it just doesn't seem to work. I wonder why, and was it added in later versions due to physics changes?

As for the other changes in the Groupie rank, really? Only 3 levels needed fixing? That's pretty good out of the 40 total levels in the rank!;)

[Strato Incendus]

As for the other changes in the Groupie rank, really? Only 3 levels needed fixing? That's pretty good out of the 40 total levels in the rank!;)

I had already updated a bunch of the others the last time

Updated levels are Groupie 01, 05, 06, 13, 18, 27, 29, and 36. The change about Groupie 10 was merely cosmetic (repositioning of one-way arrows).

Plus, before that, I had fixed all of IchoTolot's solutions to the Groupie rank, too.

Of course, it might well be that I've still overlooked some things, or that some levels might be unfixable (I said earlier that I deliberately left one of "my own" Groupie levels, i.e. level 39, the way it was). But as far as I can see, the last update before the current one was from 22nd November, and all the other Groupie levels I had fixed earlier had that date as their "last modified".


As for your question in the spoiler, I have no idea. I never tried to enforce such a solution in "Lemmicks". I guess the only person who could provide more inside into that is namida.

[kaywhyn]

Oh, right. That's still pretty good though, 11/40 levels in the Groupie rank needing a fix, i.e, about 1/4

[kaywhyn]

Resolved the 3 Groupie levels

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks, kaywhyn! I'm fine with your solution to "All your zombies" as an alternative one, but the other two still feel like backroutes.

Anyways, I still have to watch all your replays from the main ranks, so expect one giant update once I'm done with that. Groupie 05 and Groupie 13 will simply also be fixed yet again along the way.

Obviously, this will take quite a while, so...

[Strato Incendus]

The update is here! The link in the starting post is still the same Dropbox link as always.

The following levels have gone through some changes:

Changelog (click to show/hide)

Rockstar 14 - steel
Rockstar 15 (just a cosmetic change here, added a flag )
Rockstar 31 - one-way arrows
Rockstar 38 - one-way arrows
Rockstar 39 - steel

Legend 06 - fire traps
Legend 10 - 7 Platformers have been turned into pickup skills
Legend 11 - steel
Legend 22 - steel
Legend 23 - one-way arrows
Legend 27 - steel
Legend 37 - steel
Legend 38 - steel

Groupie 13 - don't even quite remember what I changed here, it's been a while, and it still doesn't seem fixable - these thin terrain stripes that define the visual identity of the level will probably always allow for some sort of Bomber shortcuts

There is also one trick I've repeatedly seen on the Legend level "Nothing else matters" that I can't really seem to prevent.

Finally, kaywhyn found a solution to Legend 03, "We can be heroes", that is perfectly acceptable in Old Formats, yet it wouldn't have worked in New Formats so far because of the deadly ceiling.
However, since I liked this alternative solution (used all the skills), I made the ceiling solid throughout in New Formats now - also to disguise a little more where you actually need to interact with the ceiling (this was much easier to spot in the previous New-Formats version).

[kaywhyn]

Resolved all levels. The only changed levels that didn't break for me were Legend 22 and Legend 23. I'm guessing they were to block off Icho's backroute in the New Formats version? Legend 37 I say remains quite hard. I have a climber and builder leftover this time. Not sure if I have all intended tricks, though.

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks for the replays, kaywhyn! I'll check them once I prepare the next update, which will arrive once Arty is done with the Rockstar rank.

Unless he gives up before that, of course , but I doubt that, he beat SEB Lems, after all - World Tour is a cakewalk compared to that. As I said, I even think Lemmings Open Air is easier than SEB Lems. So I'm curious to see whether Arty can beat that as well, but obviously not on camera - and he might just move away from Lemmings altogether for a long while after he's done with the World-Tour Let's Play. (Not just in terms of what he chooses to LP, but also in terms of what he plays in private.)

Side note: As I just commented under his latest World-Tour Let's Play video to give Arty a fair warning in advance regarding the not-so-family-friendly terrain shape of Rockstar 34 ...
I got consciously aware of the level number again. And started wondering whether I had indeed given this level the number 34 on purpose, back when I first put the pack together.

So to follow that up, I had to check whether Rule 34 of the internet also applies to Lemmings.

Yes. Yes it does. And no, it's not about the shape of the terrain .

So maybe Rockstar 34 might still be comparatively harmless, after all...

[Strato Incendus]

Uploaded a small update (link in the starting post is still the same) with fixes for two backroutes Arty found during his Let's Play of the Rockstar rank (Rockstar 04 and Rockstar 07; added steel on both).

I would have waited with this until he's done with the entire rank, but I had to do a fix in New Formats anyway, to make the level "In the shadows" playable again. So I might just as well do those fixes along with it.

Note that due to the latest Swimmer physics change in New Formats, the solution for "In the shadows" will be different in New Formats now. No changes to the Old-Formats version of that level. There might be a way to make it work in Old Formats, in turn, but I don't want to break the level for anyone who has found the perfectly valid intended solution in Old Formats. This is a change I didn't want to make in New Formats, but kind of had to. And I'm phrasing it this way because the New-Formats solution is actually more difficult than the Old-Formats one.

[Colorful Arty]

It seems Lemmings World Tour is finally showing its true colors. The Legend rank... is getting frighteningly difficult...

[kaywhyn]

Indeed, save for the one or so odd level in the previous ranks that I found harder than the other levels in the same rank, as well as the wonky first rank, Noisemaker, where the difficulty is all over the place, I felt no real challenge with the pack until I got to the Legend rank. That's where solving times finally started slowing considerably for me. I know several hard ones in the rank coming up after where you last left off in your LP, some of which you might had already encountered. So, it sounds like you have reached the point where you will only be able to solve one or a few levels per video and still be able to fit within your half hour video length, with maybe the occasional 4-5 levels solved per video if you manage to catch some lucky breaks in the rank.

At the same time, LWT is one of those packs where it constantly always seems that it keeps going, in large part due to how there's a massive 40 levels per rank (almost the largest amount of levels per rank in a pack, just short by 1 level, second to United in that regard) and a grand total of 320 levels. Indeed, I felt this burnout when I LPed the New Formats version of SEB Lems in the last few months, even though it's exactly half the length of LWT at 160 levels and how there's only half the number of levels per rank (8 ranks just like LWT). It felt like the LP just kept dragging on, but at the same time it's considerably harder, and I got stumped so badly at many different points throughout the pack. However, in your case you LPed the Old Formats version of the pack where it has 175 levels. That's because the Old Formats version includes an extra rank of 15 levels which eventually got removed in the New Formats version. So, even though I ended up playing 15 levels less than you did, I definitely felt the burnout with SEB Lems, especially since hard levels just kept coming up after one another in both the Murder and Rapture ranks and hence the finish line kept feeling so far away.

Now, eventually at some point I would like to LP the New Formats version of LWT, but that's not going to be for some time. I'm pretty sure I will really feel the LP dragging out due to the sheer length of the pack at 320 levels. This is also why I choose to LP smaller packs in between the big ones as well. After I LP a large pack, I generally do a much smaller pack next. Of course, I will also take a huge break after finishing LPing a large pack, just like I did with SEB Lems, which is currently the biggest level pack I have LPed to date, at 160 levels.

Don't despair, though. As I mentioned in your first LP video that you've done in years, you haven't lost too much of your touch with the game after all that time away. You went through the Rockstar rank in a fairly decent amount of time with relatively few problems. I know you can get through the Legend rank too. This pack's got nothing on you, Arty!

[Strato Incendus]

I just want to stress once again that SEB Lems, which Arty has already beaten, is considerably harder than any level in Lemmings World Tour.

Personally, I even think SEB Lems is harder than Lemmings Open Air. But maybe it's just that Flopsy and I mutually can't beat each other's packs ^^. Making hard levels is easier than solving them, after all.

Don't be shy to ask for help, Arty - I just have no clue where your currently struggling. It might be Legend 07 ("Lemmingrad"), but that is another level I'd say was pretty much "made for Arty"...

[kaywhyn]

I just want to stress once again that SEB Lems is considerably harder than any level in Lemmings World Tour.

Says the guy who has yet to beat the pack More to the point, I disagree. There are some levels in SEB Lems that are just as easy as some of the ones in LWT. It is tagged Medium-Hard after all, while LWT is just Medium. You also have two more ranks after Rapture. They both start off easy, where they start off around early-mid Paradise rank, and gradually get hard as you get further in those ranks, with the hardest levels reaching about Rapture difficulty just like Flopsy has confirmed and that you correctly guessed.

Personally, I even think SEB Lems is harder than Lemmings Open Air. But maybe it's just that Flopsy and I mutually can't beat each other's packs ^^. Making hard levels is easier than solving them, after all.

This I agree. SEB Lems is miles harder than LOA, as evidenced by how I struggled even in the Bittersweet rank. In contrast, your LOA pack I felt no real challenge until around mid-late Heavy rank, in a similar vein to how I said that I felt no real challenge with LWT until I got to the Legend rank as mentioned in my above post. Indeed, I would had agreed with you if you had said that SEB Lems is, on average, harder than LWT, but you mentioned "harder than any level in LWT," which I mentioned that I disagree with

Don't be shy to ask for help, Arty - I just have no clue where your currently struggling. It might be Legend 07 ("Lemmingrad"), but that is another level I'd say was pretty much "made for Arty"...

You indeed guessed correctly. I too remember struggling with Lemmingrad, although I will say it's quite a nice level with a great solution that's precise in some places. Just watched Arty's most recent LWT LP video, and at the end it says right after he completes Legend 6

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"The next level gets its own video. I'm ending the video now"

[Colorful Arty]

Yep, Lemmingrad is the level I am stuck on. I've tried to beat it for hours and just cannot see any way to reach the exit with the skillset. I swear we are 1 destructive skill short.

A hint would be most appreciated.

[Strato Incendus]

Says the guy who has yet to beat the pack More to the point, I disagree. There are some levels in SEB Lems that are just as easy as some of the ones in LWT. It is tagged Medium-Hard after all, while LWT is just Medium.

That's precisely the point : I couldn't even finish SEB Lems, Arty did. So Arty should have no trouble beating LWT in the end.
Obviously, every pack has its easy levels, but that's not what determines whether somebody will be able to complete the entire pack in the end. I called myself "He who usually only makes it up to rank two" for a reason. By that logic, any pack I have never beaten but only played up to rank 1-2 could be considered "just as easy as LWT".

I didn't say every level in SEB Lems were harder than in LWT; I said that every level in LWT is easier than finishing SEB Lems in its entirety (which is what Arty has already accomplished).

Moreover, the difficulty rating "Medium" vs. "Medium-Hard" already proves that SEB Lems is harder than LWT and purposefully so. I don't even see why we're arguing about this.

A hint would be most appreciated.

Well, I can't see what you're currently trying to do, but let's say your very own favourite trick for skill economics will get you very far on this one. It's just potentially harder to set up here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm talking about the good old "making a Miner go through using Builders" method

[Colorful Arty]

Welp, I solved it so I guess the hint won't be needed after all, only for me to see you post the hint anyways. Thanks for helping.

I'll reveal my full feelings on this level when I show off my solution on video, but fair warning: I raged a lot on this level and the solution should NOT have taken this long. I saw the solution pretty much instantly and then had to spend hours getting the solution exactly perfect with around 20 attempts ending because of ONE $*&%^#* PIXEL. The solution I was trying was the same as the intended solution, but the architecture made it unfairly precise for no reason. I don't even think it was intentional on your part to make the architecture this annoying, but it was.

[kaywhyn]

That's precisely the point : I couldn't even finish SEB Lems

Ah, you're speaking too soon, as you're quite close to the very end of the main pack and still have two more side ranks to go through Granted, you needed hints on several of the levels, but you're definitely way past the point where most give up in frustration on the pack. Honestly, at this point I'm confident that you'll be able to get through the rest of it There are level solutions as well as my LP in case you need more of a nudge in the right direction

I didn't say every level in SEB Lems were harder than in LWT; I said that every level in LWT is easier than finishing SEB Lems in its entirety (which is what Arty has already accomplished).

Moreover, the difficulty rating "Medium" vs. "Medium-Hard" already proves that SEB Lems is harder than LWT and purposefully so. I don't even see why we're arguing about this.

We're not. Based on how you wrote it you made it look like you meant that every level of LWT is easier than SEB Lems, which is clearly not true. Since you clarified that what you meant is how LWT is generally easier to solve than SEB Lems as a whole, now that there's no argument from me there

Welp, I solved it so I guess the hint won't be needed after all, only for me to see you post the hint anyways. Thanks for helping.

Congrats! Yea, I think I remember it being very precise as well. I'll need to check my replay again, as a lot of these solutions I'm struggling to remember a lot of the details. This is especially the case when I'm watching your LP, where I often wonder, "How did I solve this level again?"

[Strato Incendus]

We're not. Based on how you wrote it you made it look like you meant that every level of LWT is easier than SEB Lems

Well, to be fair, I now realize there are two ways to understand the statement "every level in LWT is easier than the entirety of SEB Lems":

1) "the entirety" like "every single level in that pack is harder" (which we agree is not true, and which I never meant to imply)

2) "the entirety" like "the entire pack", and the difficulty of the entire pack is determined by how hard it is to beat the pack as a whole. Because a single super-hard level, even if every other one is easy, can stop you from completing a pack. And completing the pack is simply much harder to do with SEB Lems than with LWT.

Welp, I solved it so I guess the hint won't be needed after all, only for me to see you post the hint anyways. Thanks for helping.

I'll reveal my full feelings on this level when I show off my solution on video, but fair warning: I raged a lot on this level and the solution should NOT have taken this long.

First of all: Congratulations for solving it even all by yourself, Arty!

For the second part: Of course, I'll have to actually see your solution first before I can confirm whether it's actually the intended one, and if so, to what extent. My own replay was fairly precise, but I've seen replays by others where the setup of the same core trick was less precise, because it relied on fewer moving parts. As a consequence, I had less of a bad conscience about it, because I discovered that easier things than what I had in mind originally were possible, and I had no intention of breaking those slightly alternative approaches.

Maybe you're the first one who actually did what I did when I made the level - or maybe you've even done something that's even harder to pull off. I have no way to tell yet.

That said, it's the final main rank, so just like in other packs, if there are supposed to be any levels where no punches are being pulled anymore, it's here.

Sure, ideally that difficulty should be conceptual more so than pixel-precision, and definitely not based on execution difficulty alone. But avoiding pixel precision is usually no longer as much of a concern on levels from the final rank of any pack if the solution necessitates that precision from a conceptual standpoint.

Which is why I'm a little confused about this statement of yours:

I saw the solution pretty much instantly

What do you mean by "instantly"? As soon as you started your next session of attempting it?

Because I'm pretty sure you didn't see the solution conceptually right away when you first looked at the level - otherwise you probably wouldn't have asked for a hint...

Unless this is another case of what happened on Legend 04: That your first instinct was the correct one and you discarded it because you couldn't execute it.
That's always a pity, because rediscovering the correct solution if you've already had it and discarding it is harder than discovering it for the first time.

In terms of "making destructive skills go through in general": I think now we've seen two different examples of how inspiration by other players can easily create monsters accidentally ^^:
- in my first pack Paralems, I had some hidden objects and a couple execution-heavy levels. Then WillLem came along with his first pack(s) and took that to even greater extremes than I would ever have imagined possible.
- in SubLems, in turn, Arty had some of these levels making skills go through each other. That inspired me to make my own, and I've taken that to much larger extremes.

The special challenge with Legend 04 was probably that this was the only combination of destructive skills of which Arty wasn't aware / sure (or at least not anymore) whether it would work in the first place: Miners crossing, Basher and Digger crossing, those were clear because he used them in SubLems himself. When I once asked about these combinations while I was playing SubLems, I also learned in turn that making a Miner and a Digger pass through each other is not possible.

That said, in terms of execution, I had to get these levels right myself - just knowing the solution on a conceptual level is not an advantage in this regard - and if it had frustrated me enough, I obviously wouldn't have included them. In turn, I was also frustrated by some of the levels in SEB Lems which required this "Miner-goes-through" stuff with a lot of setup. It's simply part and parcel of this type of solution: Often a strong limitation of destructive skills is required to even enforce the necessity of making a Miner go through in the first place. Which then becomes precise because Builder staircases are fairly thin, and it's easy for at least one of them to be accidentally cut through by the Miner.


I remember kaywhyn having similar criticism about Legend 04 as you, but for Legend 07, while he mentioned the pixel precision, too, he still called it a "very nicely designed level" overall.

IchoTolot meanwhile had trouble with the crowd containment on Level 04, so that's what he criticised, but I didn't see any criticism of skill crossings in his comments.
Only about lightning traps hidden in clouds ^^, which in turn Arty fortunately appreciated (on Legend 06 ), because he understood the flavour reasons. You know that when in doubt, flavour trumps mechanical fairness for me.

As I said under Arty's video, I always considered the Miner's position on Legend 04 fixed, so I didn't think positional cues in the terrain of what to assign where would help. The issue is when you assign the skills (i.e. to which lemming from which crowd), more so than where. Depending on when you start mining and with which lemming, even if from the same position, that will inevitably influence how you have to make the second assignment. That is the inevitable challenge of levels relying on relative timing between lemmings.

Finally, just because terrain cues are there doesn't mean they're understood by the player as such. I've repeatedly missed them on levels from SEB Lems that required skills going through, for example, and just mistook them for arbitrarily-placed decoration. Unless it's explicitly written as "Mine/Bash etc. here", like in the Practice levels of Lemmings 3D, it can easily happen that the only person who understands that terrain piece X is a position cue is the level designer him- or herself.

With Legend 07, I don't think terrain cues would help that much to begin with, because again the relative timing is the issue. But I'll have to see Arty's solution first before I can confirm whether it's actually the intended one to begin with. I assume it relies on the main trick, but the intended / alternative question is all about how that main trick is set up.

[kaywhyn]

We're not. Based on how you wrote it you made it look like you meant that every level of LWT is easier than SEB Lems

Well, to be fair, I now realize there are two ways to understand the statement "every level in LWT is easier than the entirety of SEB Lems":

1) "the entirety" like "every single level in that pack is harder" (which we agree is not true, and which I never meant to imply)

2) "the entirety" like "the entire pack", and the difficulty of the entire pack is determined by how hard it is to beat the pack as a whole. Because a single super-hard level, even if every other one is easy, can stop you from completing a pack. And completing the pack is simply much harder to do with SEB Lems than with LWT.

Fair enough, although in case there's ambiguity like here then generally things should be stated/written in such a way so that there's no confusion, or if there is a chance that something can be misinterpreted by stating what you meant, which you of course did Of course, I don't claim to be an English language expert or anything despite English being my native tongue, but opportunities to eliminate any ambiguity should be done whenever possible, let's say Obviously I took "every level in LWT is easier than the entirety of SEB Lems" to mean 1), which was what I didn't agree with, but since your clarification we are indeed in agreement that it isn't true at all, hence why I said we're not "arguing about anything"

I do agree with 2) completely, although despite Medium being in the difficulty tag, I think we also agree that they're not on the same level of medium. I would say that SEB Lems is more on the higher end of the medium difficulty, while LWT is generally on the lower end of the medium difficulty. Of course, this is subjective, as I'm simply speaking from my experience with your pack where I didn't really struggle until the Legend rank, while SEB Lems I already started struggling even in the second rank. Similarly, the pack that I'm currently LPing The Lemmings Have Grown I say is definitely on the higher end of the medium difficulty, as even the first rank levels managed to kick my *** so badly When I post my feedback for the pack later on I will let the author know to change the difficulty tag from Easy-Hard to Medium-Hard, as it is so not the former

I remember kaywhyn having similar criticism about Legend 04 as you, but for Legend 07, while he mentioned the pixel precision, too, he still called it a "very nicely designed level" overall.

I honestly didn't remember criticizing Legend 4 until you reminded me with this and I had to look back at it. Now that I think about it, I don't think it's so much that I had to do it so many times until I got it to work with the skills crossing that I was criticizing. I think it's more that I'm not generally a fan of levels where the solution involves destructive skills crossing. Indeed, I quickly deduced that the solution involved crossing of skills from the skillset and I nearly had an instant "oh Strato so did not go there." Of course, being the completionist that I am, I ended up playing it and get it solved by any means possible. To be fair, it is at least a very short level, and the 99RR kind of helps with the execution a bit, as well as enforce the trick that Icho missed conceptually completely on the bottom right entrance. Interestingly enough, I think when I was LPing Sublems a few months ago I had more trouble getting Christmas Crossing 1 to work than I did with getting Christmas Crossing 2 to work. There's a huge difference, though. In the former, it involves placing 4 skills correctly, all of which have to be placed at the right time, while in the latter you only need to place 2 skills correctly at the right time.

Legend 7, on the other hand, is a type of level involving "extending the miner," which I generally enjoy more. Unlike Legend 4, it's not as super precise, as there's still some leeway in terms of the builder/miner placements. From what I remember, I think I had my doubts as to it working just because of how the terrain is on the level and whether setting it up is even possible. Besides that, I think there were just other things I liked about the level that certainly outweigh the criticism of the pixel precision

Just FYI, there is a somewhat tall Sports level in United which involves an extremely long "extending the miner," (possibly the longest I've ever seen in a level, as a matter of fact) although in this case the setup is nearly automatic

Keep up the great work, Arty!

[Strato Incendus]

Thought I'd share my replay for "Lemmingrad", for the sake of completion. The timing I used on my solution isn't required to beat the level, though; both kaywhyn and IchoTolot found easier solutions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Both used the Bomber at the beginning at the slim blue building - and used the bar next to the exit to break the fall from the Digger shaft. They saved both Diggers until almost the very end, i.e. right before assigning the Miner.

IchoTolot bombed to get enough pixels under the Builder so that the Miner doesn't cut through and used the Stoner on the right side of the statue.
kaywhyn stoned first, next to the blue building, for a few extra pixels, and then bombed, needing no additional foothold on the right side of the statue as a result.

I, in contrast used the Stoner only at the blue building, and then dug on the right side of the statue for just one brief moment to get the "foothold" for the staircase. Instead, I saved the Bomber for later.
This Digger usage then required me to save a Digger at the end, which is what necessitated the timing stunt you see in the replay, where the Digger continues while another lemming mines.
Then I could bash over the exit and bomb to get down to it.

[kaywhyn]

@Arty I thought I drop off my Legend 4 and Legend 7 replays for you so that you can compare. Sometimes, it's easier to just simply watch the replay, as it can be quite difficult to describe the solution at times. As I mentioned before, there's multiple ways to do Legend 4, as I ended up using different lemmings from the ones you used in your solution.

Nice job on solving these two levels. Good luck with the rest of the Legend rank, and let us know if you need further assistance if you get stumped again.

[ericderkovits]

wow, Colorful Arty is very distraught at Legend 7 (Lemmingrad) in his Let's Play video of that level.

Although there are easier, less precise solutions as Strato, Icho, and Kaywhyn showed.

[kaywhyn]

Oh wow, 4 different solutions to Legend 7. Now that I think about it, I might had tried it Arty's way before, especially the stuff with the blue building, but I wasn't able to get it to work. Either that or I never tried it that way. In any case, my replay is attached if you would like to compare, @Arty

wow, Colorful Arty is very distraught at Legend 7 (Lemmingrad) in his Let's Play video of that level.

Although there are easier, less precise solutions as Strato, Icho, and Kaywhyn showed.

I don't think you understand how very difficult it is to LP a pack. Try doing it sometime, then we can talk and see if you still think it's easy. Sure, I might make it look easy at times, but LPing is not as easy as it looks. It's difficult to LP and solve well both at the same time. That's why I often mention that I screw up on camera far more than I do off camera, and this has indeed happened multiple times for every pack I've LPed.

Also, my Legend 7 solution isn't that much less precise, as there's still a lot of precision needed in it. In particular, what I did at the blue building with the destructive skills are very precise. The rest of the solution isn't as timing heavy and precise, but the precision is still there. It's only slightly easier to do just because I was able to save some of the more valuable skills for later.

Indeed, solutions being very precise is exactly what makes one doubt as to whether they will work or not. In such solutions, as can be seen, one pixel too early or too late for a given assignment, and the solution won't work. The problem lies in finding those perfect precise spots for the skills, because if you don't, the solution will not work even though it should otherwise. In the case of Legend 4, though, it was more the question of whether it was possible for two particular destructive skills to cross, which is certainly credible if one hasn't seen it before with those two skills in that level. In my case, I didn't have a problem with that, because from the extremely small and super restricted skillset, I logically deduced that the skills crossing and both continuing must be possible, as the level wouldn't be solvable otherwise. So, it's just a matter of executing it correctly.

Then as Strato mentioned many times before, there's also the very common phenomenon of persistently trying something that doesn't work over and over because the person believes that it can still be made to work. The problem here is in discarding it completely, because it's quite difficult to break away from doing a particular solution that one believes might work but ultimately it doesn't. I fall victim to this a lot, but here it's mostly due to how there's some things that happen in the level that I can't wrap my head around and hence I get sucked into trying things that clearly don't work.   

[Strato Incendus]

I assume the easiest-to-execute solution for Legend 07 would then probably be IchoTolot's (see the New-Formats thread), because he had no complaints about this level whatsoever .

I don't think eric meant to say that let's-playing were easy, just that the solution itself could have been easier . Also, Arty found this particular one off-camera, so the "doing it on camera is harder" factor (which I'm sure is a thing) doesn't apply here beyond the live parts we see in the first video about Legend 07.

Because there are four different solutions minimum to this level, I don't see the need to change anything about it, though. Because it's evidently not like there's one specific precise solution that you have to get right to make it work. The solutions differ vastly on a conceptual level, e.g. the Bomber can go in three different places, the Stoner in two different places, the Digger in several different places etc.

All solutions share a certain need for precision that just arises from the general necessity of making a Miner go through. I've faced similar issues with several SEB Lems levels, for example. In at least one case, this and the surrounding setup required also prevented me from solving the level without help at all.

That level was (click to show/hide)

"The Call of Lucia"

But "Wild Forever" was a similar candidate

Everything else seems to be a case of "picking your poison": As soon as you decide on e.g. one of the possible Bomber positions, that reduces the degrees of freedom you have for where the other skills can go. And that then leads you towards which solution you'll have to go with if you stick to that particular approach. Depending on which you end up using, the amount of required precision will vary.

[kaywhyn]

I assume the easiest-to-execute solution for Legend 07 would then probably be IchoTolot's (see the New-Formats thread), because he had no complaints about this level whatsoever .

Just because he didn't leave any feedback for the level doesn't mean there wasn't any complaints about it Yes, it might mean that he didn't have any problems with it or didn't have anything to say about it, but it could easily go the other way, where he might have had complaints about it Nevertheless, it's likely safe to say Icho's solution is the easiest to do execution-wise even though I haven't seen it myself

I don't think eric meant to say that let's-playing were easy, just that the solution itself could have been easier

You don't know that LPing is difficult until you have tried it yourself Before I started being an LPer, I thought it would be a cinch. Boy was I wrong! Doesn't matter if you're skilled at Lemmings or not. As I said, solving well and LPing and sharing your thoughts out loud are all difficult to do at the same time.

All solutions share a certain need for precision that just arises from the general necessity of making a Miner go through. I've faced similar issues with several SEB Lems levels, for example. In at least one case, this and the surrounding setup required also prevented me from solving the level without help at all.

That level was (click to show/hide)

"The Call of Lucia"

But "Wild Forever" was a similar candidate

Interestingly, I didn't have much problems with the former. Instead, the time limit was the main enemy. However, I had far more problems with getting the latter to work, although Flopsy has mentioned that he has left some distinct indicators in the terrain to help with it.

[Strato Incendus]

Just because he didn't leave any feedback for the level doesn't mean there wasn't any complaints about it Yes, it might mean that he didn't have any problems with it or didn't have anything to say about it, but it could easily go the other way, where he might have had complaints about it Nevertheless, it's likely safe to say Icho's solution is the easiest to do execution-wise even though I haven't seen it myself

IchoTolot did not hold back on criticising other levels he didn't like (specifically the ones with "flavourful" traps, of which there are two levels on the Legend rank ).
Therefore, I'm pretty sure he would have voiced his complaints about Legend 07, too .

You don't know that LPing is difficult until you have tried it yourself Before I started being an LPer, I thought it would be a cinch. Boy was I wrong!

You can only speak for yourself here - I always thought it would be difficult. Heck, it's difficult enough for me to solve custom NeoLemmix packs all by myself. That's why I don't even think of doing it on camera. It's not me you have to convince here, if anyone, it's eric. But as I said, I didn't understand his comments as a claim that LPing in general were easy either - just that there are easier solutions to Legend 07 (which is true), and that whether you LP it or not does not impact how long it takes you to find the solution off-camera.

although Flopsy has mentioned that he has left some distinct indicators in the terrain to help with it.

Yeah, as I said with regards to Legend 04: Terrain cues are only helpful if you actually recognise them as terrain cues, instead of as just seemingly arbitrary decoration ^^.

[kaywhyn]

IchoTolot did not hold back on criticising other levels he didn't like (specifically the ones with "flavourful" traps, of which there are two levels on the Legend rank ).

Yes, but those are levels with hidden traps, which Legend 7 doesn't have
 

You can only speak for yourself here - I always thought it would be difficult. Heck, it's difficult enough for me to solve custom NeoLemmix packs all by myself. That's why I don't even think of doing it on camera. It's not me you have to convince here, if anyone, it's eric.

Practically any LPer will agree it's difficult, so I'm not alone there

But as I said, I didn't understand his comments as a claim that LPing in general were easy either - just that there are easier solutions to Legend 07 (which is true), and that whether you LP it or not does not impact how long it takes you to find the solution off-camera.

I simply gathered that based on what he said about Arty's frustrations. It might had been best that we didn't see or hear his further frustrations anyway, as then who would want to see this kind of thing in an LP. I admit that while watching him attempt Legend 7 that his rage did at some points made me jump and scared me, as that's the maddest I've ever heard him in an LP This nice guy, all of a sudden mad.

But yes, there are easier solutions to Legend 7. It's just that sometimes we get sucked into fiddly and precise solutions. Even then, almost all the time there are cleaner and easier solutions. Plus as I said before you're not the biggest offender when it comes to a lot of pixel precision needed in a pack

[Strato Incendus]

IchoTolot did not hold back on criticising other levels he didn't like (specifically the ones with "flavourful" traps, of which there are two levels on the Legend rank ).

Yes, but those are levels with hidden traps, which Legend 7 doesn't have

I know - different players complain about different things. I currently have no reason to infer he had taken issue with Legend 07, too, precisely because it's a completely different type of level. I also don't know how long it took IchoTolot to figure out his solution to Legend 07. He was pretty fast at solving the pack overall. I sometimes couldn't keep up, actually.

You can only speak for yourself here - I always thought it would be difficult. Heck, it's difficult enough for me to solve custom NeoLemmix packs all by myself. That's why I don't even think of doing it on camera. It's not me you have to convince here, if anyone, it's eric.

Practically any LPer will agree it's difficult, so I'm not alone there

You've misunderstood me again. You made the claim that "You don't know that LPing is difficult until you've tried it yourself". I didn't question that it's diffcult; I questioned the claim that you can only know it's difficult once you've tried it yourself. I realised that from watching alone. So you don't have to make me try LPing a pack to know that it's more difficult than playing by yourself if it is already difficult enough for me to solve custom NeoLemmix levels anyway.

By seeing other people struggle and raging at levels in my packs already, which, as we established, are still easier than most other custom packs by long-time forum members, I can only infer how much those same players would struggle if they had to solve those harder packs on camera. That's why even long-term Lemmings Let's-Players tend to go into post-commentary replay mode on the higher ranks of those packs, instead of continuing to solve them live on camera.

[kaywhyn]

I also don't know how long it took IchoTolot to figure out his solution to Legend 07. He was pretty fast at solving the pack overall. I sometimes couldn't keep up, actually.

Right, that's the bad thing about not solving anything in real time on camera, as you don't get to see what about the level the player struggled with and similarly if there wasn't any problems solving it. According to the timestamps of my replays, it only took me about half an hour to solve Legend 7. In contrast, it only took me about 10 minutes to solve Legend 4 These really quick solving times generally indicate I didn't have any problems solving them, although I personally consider myself having struggled with any level that takes me longer than 15 minutes to solve.

Lol I was the same way when I went through this pack. I was solving way too quickly, particularly when I kept coming back to post replays for both the first and second half of a rank all in the same day, that you couldn't even keep up. I still don't know if you ever gotten around to seeing all 320 replays, as well as have had a chance to read all the feedback, but well that's on you. No pressure and hurry of course, as always. You know me when it comes to being super detailed

You've misunderstood me again. You made the claim that "You don't know that LPing is difficult until you've tried it yourself". I didn't question that it's diffcult; I questioned the claim that you can only know it's difficult once you've tried it yourself. I realised that from watching alone. So you don't have to make me try LPing a pack to know that it's more difficult than playing by yourself if it is already difficult enough for me to solve custom NeoLemmix levels anyway.

Actually, I didn't misunderstand. It was in response to "you can only speak for yourself." I'm simply saying that LPers are pretty much in agreement with me that it's difficult and hence "I'm not alone there." Again, a lot of things are difficult to tell how they would be without actually doing or trying it for oneself, but yes, I understand where you're coming from in regards to determining LPing being difficult without necessarily needing to try it, which makes perfect sense if you yourself consider a lot of the packs too difficult for you and that you have had plenty of your own struggles with them and actually needed a hint or two on some for a nudge in the right direction.

That being said, I don't exactly know how well you would fare against the very first Lemmings levels I have ever made. They're current LDC levels, though, and I know how you are with not playing contest levels in general. From the feedback I've been given, everyone's been kind enough to tell me that they consider my R1 the hardest out of my 3 entries even though they come nowhere near the hardest levels ever released in a pack. This comes as a surprise to me, as I always had this thought that I'm no good when it comes to making a difficult level, let alone a contest worthy one, but hey, surprise! Apparently I'm capable of making hard levels myself. Keep in mind these are the very first levels I have ever made Also, I still rather solve than make them It's interesting really, as lately I've been asked by various designers if I want to test out levels for them, which I of course gladly accept the offer

By seeing other people struggle and raging at levels in my packs already, which, as we established, are still easier than most other custom packs by long-time forum members, I can only infer how much those same players would struggle if they had to solve those harder packs on camera. That's why even long-term Lemmings Let's-Players tend to go into post-commentary replay mode on the higher ranks of those packs, instead of continuing to solve them live on camera.

Luckily I haven't had to do post-commentary yet, although there have been a few levels which I needed to spend some time off camera before coming back to record and attempting to reproduce the solution by hand rather than load a replay. Even if I encounter a level that I've already played and solved before, in general I don't ever load replays in my LPs. I don't mind sitting through and trying to figure out a level all over again, just because it's kind of beneficial to do so, especially to exercise one's mental thinking. Also, if I generally can't get a level solved after at least two videos, then I spend time off camera with it.

Of course, this might have to change with some future packs I LP. Here, I'm thinking LPV and LPO2 might need post-commentary after some point, but I would only do this if it's clear that I'm just not enjoying myself solving these packs on camera and I wasn't liking the persona I was putting on on camera. I've done so many LPs at this point, and except for maybe a level or so where I kind of raged (I say "kind of" because it kind of borders on me nearly erupting out into fury but it's clear that I'm flustered and slowly getting annoyed based on my tone in the video), I seem to have a lot of patience compared to most when solving on camera.

[Colorful Arty]

Welp, I have hit a solid brick wall in the Encore rank, and that brick wall's name is "Here comes the flood". No matter what I do, I swear you are one skill short of solving it.

The worst part is I remember struggling heavily with this level when I played it in Lemmicks. However, I do not remember if I ever solved it, nor do I have a replay of the solution that works on this version of the level. I always end up with the lemming who gets all of the pickup skills unable to reach the exit due to climbing left and into the ghostbuster trap. I either need one extra destructive skill to free him, or one extra builder to avoid the trap. I don't see any way through it.

A hint would be most appreciated, as this level I will be solving off-camera.

[kaywhyn]

Welp, I have hit a solid brick wall in the Encore rank, and that brick wall's name is "Here comes the flood". No matter what I do, I swear you are one skill short of solving it.

The worst part is I remember struggling heavily with this level when I played it in Lemmicks. However, I do not remember if I ever solved it, nor do I have a replay of the solution that works on this version of the level. I always end up with the lemming who gets all of the pickup skills unable to reach the exit due to climbing left and into the ghostbuster trap. I either need one extra destructive skill to free him, or one extra builder to avoid the trap. I don't see any way through it.

A hint would be most appreciated, as this level I will be solving off-camera.

Ah, yes, Here Comes the Flood. If I'm not mistaken, this was originally earlier in the Moist rank in Lemmicks, but Strato ended up moving it to near the end of the rank because of how people have said that it was too hard for its position. Indeed, this sounds to have been the right decision to move it further down the rank and hence it's near the end of the Encore rank in LWT. Honestly, I didn't have too much trouble with this level when I played it in Lemmicks. It sounds like you're using a skill incorrectly somewhere (I'm guessing it's the cloner) or you're not sure what to do with the skills you have left. Without seeing your LP, I'm not sure which it is. Indeed, I just watched Flopsy's LP of Lemmicks and he wasn't able to solve the level himself.

Anyway, here's a hint(s):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Remember that the cloner comes in real handy for overcoming being a skill short! Also, remember what happens to a lemming when he hits steel with a destructive digging (basher/miner/digger) skill.

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks a lot, kaywhyn! Not only were you faster than me - you also managed to phrase the hint in a better way than I could have done.

At least I'm glad to hear it's a puzzle challenge that's giving Arty hard times, not execution difficulty. With those Encore levels, especially those taken from Paralems, you never know.

But yes, "Here comes the flood" is indeed from Lemmicks, and one of my better levels to date. Also, it was one of the few that I could transfer to 10.13 and New Formats without changing anything significant about the solution.
I just had to swap out the Swimmers for Walkers.

[kaywhyn]

Haha thanks for the kind words! Indeed, when I give hints, I always do it in such a way so as to not spoil any of the solution and still allow the player to figure it out for him/herself, as my goal is to help players improve their solving/critical thinking. If I ever end up making a level pack, you can expect this same hint system I've been using

As I suspected, the end part was the major stumping point for Arty, as that is the part that players have trouble with on Encore 37. Also as you mentioned, the difficulty is from the puzzle being difficult itself, not the execution. He asked me to confirm if he had everything up through the upper right corner correct, for which I answered in the affirmative. Well, he replied just now saying that he literally solved the level seconds after replying asking for confirmation, and even then I simply copied/pasted the hints from the spoiler above to my reply on YT and asked how he can use the remaining skills to get the level solved. Here, I was confident that he would be able to figure it out from there, all while I still didn't give anything away, but as it turns out my reply wasn't needed, as he had solved it shortly after he had replied

Well, congrats Arty on solving Encore 37!    

[Colorful Arty]

[Strato Incendus]

Well done, Arty! Congratulations! I'm already curious to see how you did on the final level!



I assume the second-to-last level was a cakewalk, since any backroutes possibly present on that one are somewhat part of the plan. Thus, your final video probably focuses almost entirely on "The Grand Puzzle", I'd predict.

Also, I assume the last two levels had their preview texts displayed correctly, given that any previous examples of falsely-matched preview texts were duplicates, rather than being moved to a different level completely. (I think the levels that incorrectly displayed the preview texts for Groupie 39 and 40 were Groupie 29 and 30, so you can see that for a time, each rank was indeed supposed to only have 30 levels.)



The meme didn't get displayed to me at first, so I thought you had posted an empty comment on purpose because your struggles with Groupie 38 had rendered you "speechless". So I just scrapped the entire comment I was about to write based on that assumption.

(Even though I'm pretty certain you can't actually make an empty post here on the forums, and having watched your latest video to the end, Groupie 38 didn't seem nearly as bad as some other levels that required destructive skills to go through.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

not just "Lemmingrad" and "Take me home, country roads", but also "Meet me halfway", for example