Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems  (Read 5947 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Strato Incendus

  • He who usually only makes it up to rank two
  • Posts: 802
  • Your graphic-set conversion cleanup service ;)
    • View Profile
Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2017, 10:15:45 am »
nin10doadict's LP is providing some valuable additional perspective on this pack! For some levels, I have decided to re-arrange the skill count in order to enforce his solution where the level previously was too unspecific.

Also, I had a really hard time blocking the timing-based solution on WTF 01, "The Mummy". I've added some canopic jars at the bottom so that the zombie can't walk quite as far, and additionally used the "lock" feature on th release rate for the very first time ever :) .

I'm curious to see what further shortcuts nin10doadict might find, so I can upload another big update of the pack once his LP is finished. From what I could tell during your playthrough of "Mission Impossible", you are now actively looking for backroutes, just like Nepster did, which is very helpful to "cleanse" this pack of any remaining ones! :)
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

  • He who usually only makes it up to rank two
  • Posts: 802
  • Your graphic-set conversion cleanup service ;)
    • View Profile
Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 11:42:23 pm »
nin10doadict has done a great job at playing through this pack, and as he told me there were only 5 from a total of 100 levels he couldn't solve. And except for one, these were not the levels where I would have guessed it! :D
EDIT: He even did solve 4 of these 5 in the meantime! :thumbsup: So I guess they're merely his top (or bottom? :D ) five now.

These are the levels we're talking about (spoiler warning if you still need to watch his video series ;) ):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once the final episode is out and I've had a chance to look at all the backroutes nin10adict has found, I will upload a (more) fixed version 3. But having found some further backroutes in other, much older packs myself, I guess they can never be ruled out entirely :) .
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 11:50:46 pm by Strato Incendus »
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

  • He who usually only makes it up to rank two
  • Posts: 802
  • Your graphic-set conversion cleanup service ;)
    • View Profile
Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2017, 07:47:03 pm »
And here it is, Version 3 is out! (The link in the opening post should work as well, of course.) :D

Changelog
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And now for some things I purposefully didn't change:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once again a huge thank you to nin10adict for his very entertaining Let's Play of this pack! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: There were more remaining backroutes than I had thought. But that just means even more could be rooted out now! :D

To everyone who played the updated version and wants to take a look at the fixed levels, the changelog is there to tell you which levels specifically might be worth addressing again.

For people who played the very first iteration of this pack and haven't had any contact with it since... I guess almost every level has changed by now :D . So in that case, decide for yourself whether it's worthy of an entire new playthrough.

And of course, please keep reporting any potential backroutes you discover! :) As I recently found out myself, even old classics of custom packs like Nepster Lems and Sub Lems are never truly finished, but always remain a work in progress.
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

  • He who usually only makes it up to rank two
  • Posts: 802
  • Your graphic-set conversion cleanup service ;)
    • View Profile
Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2019, 04:00:58 pm »
I've just glossed over the levels in this pack again using nin10adict's Let's Play, and the average quality of these levels was, albeit not on-par with what I've created for Lemmings World Tour or the packs I'm currently developing, still a lot higher than I remembered. Thus, I've deemed this pack worthy of conversion to New Formats! :thumbsup:

This will most likely take place after the stable release of version 12.7, because I want to be able to at least salvage the levels involving anti-splat pads.

The radiation and slowfreeze levels, which there are more of in this pack than in Lemmings World Tour or Paralems, will be removed from the New-Formats version. Altering the solution isn't really viable, especially since the best radiation/slowfreeze level in here, LOTY nominee "Controlled overload", already is a rerun of a previous level without radiation and slowfreeze ("The long way down").

Now there's the question of how to replace these. The average level quality of Paralems is much lower, so I thought about selecting the best levels from Paralems and putting them in place of the radiation and slowfreeze levels from Pit Lems. Then again, there are most likely a couple more good or at least passable Paralems levels than there are radiation and slowfreeze levels in Pit Lems.

I could fill up the ranks from 20 to 30 levels - with five ranks, this would extend Pit Lems from 100 to 150 levels, just like Paralems, but it would only contain the best third of Paralems levels, with any remaining slots being patched out by Lemmicks levels that still work in New Formats.

So I'd essentially create a Lemmings Redux out of my first three packs, which would otherwise remain restricted to Old Formats. This is not a best-of in the strict sense, because nothing from Lemmings World Tour would be included - it would just be a way of porting all the best remaining levels of mine to New Formats in one fell swoop.

Levels that appear on the Encore rank of World Tour can be included, though, since that rank already is a miniature collection of levels from these three packs. The difference is that the levels on the Encore rank were not at all selected for quality, but only based on their level titles alluding to songs, which goes along with the rest of World Tour.

I'd probably call the resulting New-Formats pack "Pit Lems Remastered", in analogy to Lemmings World Tour Remastered, because levels from Pit Lems would make up the majority of the pack. Therefore, it doesn't really make sense to me to call it something more generic, like "Stratolems" or similar ;) .

Once the stable release of version 12.7 is here, conversion of this pack should go comparatively quickly, at least compared with World Tour, because
a) the pack is much shorter
b) all the missing tilesets I have already converted for World Tour
c) not a lot of levels involve interactions with the ceiling, so there's no need for a lot of re-edits to add solid ceilings to levels that need them.

In fact, the deadly ceiling even breaks some backroutes that I originally fixed by adding the horizontal lightning traps (fire objects) from namida's Sky tileset! :evil:

So if you find the freshly-converted Lemmings World Tour too hard, stay tuned for the conversion of Pit Lems! ;) It's quite a bit easier, not relying so much on skill tricks and specific combinations, while still being puzzly, rather than as execution- and flavour-based as Paralems. And the last levels might even give people who can handle Lemmings World Tour some "hard nuts to crack"! ;)
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

  • He who usually only makes it up to rank two
  • Posts: 802
  • Your graphic-set conversion cleanup service ;)
    • View Profile
Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2019, 11:19:53 am »

    So that's almost 10% of the pack getting lost during conversion. Maybe I can save "A level of ice and fire", although the slowfreeze is quite a bit integral to the solution, and simply replacing it with a stoner pickup skill will make the level much easier, i.e. much less deserving of being in the final rank. The same is true for "Get a foothold". I thought about trying to save "Controlled overload" somehow, but the main trick at the beginning is really the same as during the first iteration, "The long way down".

    These 9 levels are going to be filled up first with the best puzzles from Lemmicks, because they are of higher average quality than those from Paralems, and there are less Lemmicks levels overall that are going to work in New Formats without gimmicks.

    Priority will be given to levels that don't already appear on the Encore rank of Lemmings World Tour, because I want to avoid redundancy wherever possible. Hence, for example, a level like "Here comes the flood" from the Lemmicks Moist rank, even though I consider it a very good level, is not going to be added to Pit Lems Remastered, because it is already included as a bonus level in LWT. Thus, it has more opportunity to shine in LWT, and another additional level can be "saved" from Old Formats in its place.


    That's pretty much all the levels from Lemmicks that would still work in New Formats, at least with regard to the ranks covered by Flopsy's Lemmicks LP. There may be some levels on the higher Lemmicks rank that would work in New Formats with some slight modification, I'd have to check again.

    "Tick Tock" is going to need some slight modification - for example, a Climber will be needed to get a Swimmer out of a water pit, since that water doesn't rise anymore in New Formats. Also, most of the Lemmicks levels are going to require not only solid ceilings (due to the change to deadly ceilings from 10.13 to New Formats), but also solid level sides in the first place (due to the change to deadly sides between 1.43 and 10.13)! :D

    So I have two options for Pit Lems remastered:
    a) Keep it at 100 levels as just a combination of Pit Lems and Lemmicks. I wouldn't go as far as to call it "Pit Lemmicks" then :D , because not enough of Lemmicks characteristic levels would be present. But those 9 levels mentioned above would simply replace the radiation- and slowfreeze levels, everything else would remain the same.
    b) Extend the ranks to 30 levels each, and thereby the pack to 150 levels. This would allow to save select quality levels from Paralems, as well as a couple more from Lemmicks.




    Those are exactly 50 levels. So just off the top of my head, I could indeed create this 150-level version of Pit Lems. And it would only feature the best puzzles from these three packs, plus maybe a couple of levels which would merely be present for aesthetic purposes, such as the ridiculously easy, but somehow quite popular "Death Titan" ;) .

    For some levels, though, I'd have to see how well that "hiding traps behind animals" thing, which is kind of typical of Paralems, works in New Formats. Animals made of terrain, like the Highland Nessy, shouldn't be as much of a problem as animals that are already traps, like crocodiles or snakes.

    Then again, the main problem with my Nessy trap is that the ONML Rock chameleon, which I used for that, has been made one complete object in New Formats, rather than having the chameleon's head as a separate object. So I might have to add the head to my strato_generalmd tileset again. :D One level in Lemmings World Tour would also profit from that - it currently looks horrible, with entire chameleons all over the place...

    And, of course, from Paralems I'm going to try and save as many of the decent zombie levels as possible!


    If you remember any of your favourite levels from Paralems or Lemmicks that you'd like to see in this extended, New-Formats version of Pit Lems, now is the time to tell me! ;)

    Keep in mind the main goal of the conversion of Pit Lems is to provide some more beginner-to-intermediate content for New Formats, which currently mainly offers high-difficulty packs.



    Finally, I do still plan to put all radiation- and slowfreeze levels of mine together into a short compilation called Nuclear Winter. Naturally, this will have to be done in Old Formats (10.13), but it technically isn't new content for an outdated version.
    I'd just like to gather all of them in one place, so that people who play the New-Formats version of Pit Lems or Lemmings World Tour can specifically play the missing levels if they're interested, rather than having to download the entire packs Pit Lems and Lemmings World Tour for both Old and New Formats just to find them.
    Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
    My packs so far:
    Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
    Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
    Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
    Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels