Check #lix chatlogs. For quite a while, Simon has been trying to persuade me to use a format similar to those of Lemmini / Lix for graphic sets, rather than a binary one that's more comparable to the DOS format (although the current format, unlike the DOS one, has no limit on number of terrain pieces / objects and uses non-planar 32 bit bitmaps, with a slight hack of not storing RGB values for pixels where the alpha is zero).

The graphic set editing tool (as well as its predecessor, LemSet) both are capable of importing such a format and turning it into a binary format that NeoLemmix can use; Simon is saying that these formats should just be supported directly in NeoLemmix.

Importing VGASPECs is now implemented. Lemmini / SuperLemmini are next on the todo list. However, before they can really be done, I need to add code to NeoLemmix to do the resizing of different resolution graphics (at the moment, if they're going to be resized instead of having oversized pieces, they'd have to be resized while saving the graphic set).

(EDIT: Okay, that was actually really simple to do. Player and Editor support for that are both implemented for the next update.)

Now that the NeoLemmix Editor has a mass-conversion tool, who would be interested in SuperLemmini versions of Lemmings Plus I and II? (The others wouldn't be possible due to heavy use of NeoLemmix-exclusive features). Lemmings Plus I could pretty much be done right away, while Lemmings Plus II would need to wait until the graphic set tool supports exporting SuperLemmini graphic sets.

Lemmings Plus I could be done almost exactly as-is. The only levels I can think of off the top of my head that may have issues are Psycho 16 and Psycho 24.

Lemmings Plus II does use three features (albeit only at a rate of once per rank each) that SuperLemmini doesn't support; gimmicks, frenzies and secret levels. The Floater Frenzy levels should be workable (albeit a tad easier) by simply dropping Frenzy from them; while the others could be done perhaps by replacing the gimmick level in each rank with that rank's secret level, thus getting two birds with one stone. The bonus pack levels from Trial and Challenge could also be included, while Flight 7 and Rush 4 could perhaps be used if needed to replace levels that don't work in SuperLemmini.

(EDIT: On second thought, SuperLemmini doesn't support the one-way fields either... not too many levels use them though, and some of the ones that do could work without them with slight alterations (eg. Genius 19).)

(EDIT: After a brief look at SuperLemmini's graphic set format, it would appear it in fact DOES support the one-way fields! The only exists-in-traditional(-but-is-never-actually-used-in-a-graphic-set) object it doesn't support is the anti-blocker field; and that's assuming it isn't supported but just not documented; at any rate LPII definitely doesn't use those.)


EDIT: So, some thoughts have come up while I've been going through these packs again for the V1.31n-B update. Specifically, LPII Cunning 4 would be the most frustrating level in Lemmings history in SuperLemmini, due to the combination of timed bombers and having to replay from the start (yeah, there's action-replay, but you can't just savestate or jump back a few frames like you can in NeoLemmix). So, most likely, I'd replace that one with "When You Wish Upon A Lemming" (secret level in the Flight rank in Lemmings Plus II Bonus Pack).

Editor V1.31n-B update released.

V1.31n-B
--------
> Fixed the bug where NeoLemmix-specific options for terrains / objects / steel areas would be
  disabled, even while editing NeoLemmix levels, if a Lemmini / SuperLemmini level had been
  edited since starting up the editor
> Fixed the bug where regular Lemmix levels (and very old NeoLemmix levels) couldn't be loaded
  properly in NeoLemmix style, and had to be loaded in Lemmix style then converted
> Added a "Mass Conversion" tool, to facilitate quickly converting large numbers of levels
  between formats (note: conversion from newer engines (NeoLemmix / SuperLemmini) to older
  engines (Lemmix / Lemmini) is not recommended)
> Completely reworked the "Validate Level" menu, and improved support for issues specific to
  various level formats

DropBox
NeoLemmix Website


Note that cases should be VERY rare when you need to actually convert Lemmix / Lemmini levels to NeoLemmix / SuperLemmini ones respectively if you aren't also making any changes to them at the same time, since in both cases the new engine can use the old one's levels directly. The conversion is more useful for converting Lemmini/SuperLemmini to Lemmix/NeoLemmix and vice versa.

Working on the mass convert feature now. Looking promising so far; it looks like this too will be in the next version.

Of course, anyone using it needs to be aware that *all* converted levels should always be checked before any kind of release, and also that due to different features in different engines, some loss of data may occur. Conversion is supported between any combination of Lemmix, NeoLemmix, Lemmini and SuperLemmini. Generally, converting the older engines to the newer ones should have little if any issues, though Lemmini to NeoLemmix may need closer attention than the other three old-to-new pairings. Attempting conversion back to older engines is very likely to be a disaster, though SuperLemmini to Lemmini may work out alright.

---

Finished implementing it. So far, I've only tested it with NeoLemmix -> SuperLemmini, but it worked first time with no major errors - one minor one in that it didn't update the display to say it was finished. I do still need to test other combinations.

EDIT: Okay, update containing the feature has been added.

Discovered a bug where regular Lemmix levels (or very old NeoLemmix levels; generally those that have not been edited with V1.24n onwards or dumped from player V1.24n onwards) will not open directly in NeoLemmix styles, and must instead be loaded as regular Lemmix levels then converted. This will be fixed in the next update.

Round / Set Lists

Please see the attached spreadsheet for set lists and winners.

Okay so, this voteoff is going to be a combined one between several games, due to them having a relatively small number of levels each - all of these combined are still the smallest of the four voteoffs!

> Xmas Lemmings 1991
> Xmas Lemmings 1992
> Holiday Lemmings 93
> Holiday Lemmings 94
> Covox Lemmings
> Prima Publishing Lemmings (aka "Official Lemmings Companion Game")

If you haven't yet played any of these, you can get them in Lemmix player format here: http://www.neolemmix.com/old/lemmix.html

The format will once again be the same. The re-rolling rules I've used for the first round are:
> If a set does not contain levels from at least five ranks.
> If a set does not contain at least three levels that aren't from H93 or H94.
> If a set does not contain at least one level from either Covox or Prima.
> If a set contains more than three consecutive levels.
> If a set contains both versions of "Presents of Mind"

For the second round, the rules are:
> If a set does not contain levels from at least three ranks
> If a set does not contain levels from at least two games
> If a set does not contain at least one level that isn't from H93 or H94
> If a set contains both versions of "Presents of Mind"

From the third round onwards, the sets don't get rerolled no matter what.


Each round has a limit on the number of levels that qualify to proceed to the next round. However, this limit may be exceeded in certain situations, depending on the results. Here's how the "limit" and the results combine to determine the qualifying levels:
1) All levels in first place qualify, no matter what.
2) If the limit has not been reached, all levels in second place qualify, no matter what.
3) If the limit has not been reached, then 3rd, 4th and so on are considered, but *only* if (a) including them won't cause the limit to be exceeded, and (b) they have at least one vote (first round) or half as many votes as the first place levels (any other round).

As before, each set is open for voting for 48 hours, except in the finals, where it's 72 hours. And like always, the number of votes allowed is a maximum, not an exact requirement - you are allowed to vote for fewer than the maximum if you don't feel enough levels are worthy of a vote.



Remember, no discussion of the levels being voted on at the time is allowed within the topic (but discussing them elsewhere on the boards is fine).

NOTE: Just to be clear, this is based off the DOS versions, which means Flurry 8 is "Vacation in Gemland", not "Clouds of Lemmings". The latter level will be in the fourth ("other levels") voteoff.


Round Breakdown

In all cases, when the sets cannot be divided equally, the remainder levels are added to the earlier rounds. EG: If a round says "divided into three equal sets" and there are 17 levels, the first two sets will have 6 levels each and the third set will have 5 levels. Likewise, if a round says "divided into sets of 5 levels" and there are 21 levels, the first set will get 6 levels. This does not affect the qualifying levels limit or the number of votes unless the round specifically states otherwise.

Round 1
Levels are divided into sets of 10 levels each. Three votes are allowed per user. Qualifying level limit is 5.

Round 2
Levels are divided into sets of 5 levels each. Two votes are allowed per user. Qualifying level limit is 3.

Round 3
Levels are divided into sets of 4 levels each. Two votes are allowed per user. Qualifying level limit is 2.
Round 3 has been cancelled since so few levels are making it through from Round 2. So we'll take the Round 2 qualifiers straight through to Round 4.

Round 4
Levels are broken into three sets (four sets if 20+ levels make it to here). Two votes are allowed per user. Qualifying level limit is 2.

Round 5
Levels are played in a single set. Two votes are allowed per user. Qualifying level limit is 2.

Round 6 (Finals)
Levels are played in a single set. One vote is allowed per user. This round determines the winner.
If 3+ levels make it here, and there is a tie for first, the two tied levels go into another extra round. This continues until there is either a clear winner, or a tie for first place between all levels (not including those that receive no votes).

Okay, so, I've added the new Level Validation window, along with the option to select and fix specific errors from the list (and a "Fix All" button). Many (but not all) of the fixes it implements, especially in relation to level stats, are the same as how NeoLemmix itself reacts to such situations.

Just to be clear, these autofixes are only applied when you use the Level Validator option, then select the error and click "Fix" (or just click "Fix All"); it doesn't constantly detect and fix these things, since there may be cases where they're intentional, or are temporary during work on a level. Nor does it auto-fix them when saving the level, unless it's as a side effect of something outright not being supported by the level format.

The errors it can currently detect are:

Level Stats / Skillset / etc
Very high lemming counts that may cause game to lag (no autofix)
Impossible save requirement (fix: reduces it to highest possible value)
Time limit of zero (fix: sets it to infinite or 9 minutes, as appropriate for the format)
Screen start position outside level boundaries (fix: sets it to 0, 0)
Incompatible gimmicks:
>> Hardworkers + Lazy (fix: turns off Lazy Lemmings)
>> Solid Floor + Vertical Wrap (fix: turns off Solid Floor)
>> Invincibility (fix: turns it off; this is because this gimmick is intended as a debug feature only)
>> Classic Zombies without Zombies (fix: turns on Zombies)
>> (Gim29) (fix: turns it off; this is because Gim29 is a currently unused gimmick slot)
More than 8 types of skills in the skillset (fix: removes skills beyond the first 8)


Interactive Objects
Maximum number of objects exceeded (no autofix)
Object that doesn't exist in graphic set (fix: deletes the object)
Object X position not divisible by 8 in traditional Lemmix levels (fix: rounds it down)
Object Y position not divisible by 4 in traditional Lemmix levels (fix: rounds it down)
>> Y divisible by 4 is not a requirement, but can cause unexpected issues with the trigger areas
Object outside of level boundaries (fix: deletes the object)
Object with properties that aren't supported in current format (fix: unsets those properties)
>> This can occur when converting levels from another format; it's harder to notice than stats / skillsets that aren't supported which is why the checker points them out
One-way wall objects that don't have the "only on terrain" property set, in non-NeoLemmix levels (fix: sets it)
Object with "upside down" set but not "trigger invert" in SuperLemmini levels (fix: sets it)
>> This is because generally, if an object is upside down, the intention is for the trigger area to be upside down too; but in SuperLemmini these are two seperate options, unlike with horizontal flip


Terrain Pieces
Maximum number of terrain pieces exceeded (no autofix)
Terrain piece that doesn't exist in graphic set (fix: deletes the piece)
Terrain piece outside of level boundaries (fix: deletes the piece)
Terrain piece with properties that aren't supported in current format (fix: unsets those properties)


Steel areas
Maximum number of steel areas exceeded (no autofix)
Coordinates or dimensions not divisible by 4 in traditional Lemmix levels (fix: rounds them down)
Dimensions exceeding 64 in traditional lemmix, or 256 in NeoLemmix (fix: reduces them to these values)
Steel area outside of level boundaries (fix: deletes the area)
Steel area with properties that aren't supported in current format (fix: deletes the area)
>> The reason it deletes it, unlike with other pieces where it unsets them, is that simply unsetting those properties is more likely to give unwanted and hard-to-spot results with steel areas than it is with objects or terrain



Let me know if you think there's anything that should be added to this. Reworking of code elsewhere will be needed for anything that requires detecting a window (in fact, it might be required for detecting the type of any object in Lemmini / SuperLemmini formats), so that's why, eg, it won't detect an absence of windows currently, or detect the lack of any zombies in Zombie gimmick levels.

I think all usage of other level editors would disappear overnight if there was. Unfortunately, it's not realistically possible.

(Now, if you had've suggested that before April Fools... )

---

New "Validate Level" menu should be implemented for the next update. I probably won't have the "fix" function yet, but the menu itself has been reworked, including adding support for detecting issues specific to particular engines, and things such as mutually-incompatible gimmicks. EDIT: Nope, the fix function is in there now. It can't fix all errors automatically, but it can fix most of them.

Not 100% sure yet if the Mass Conversion will be there for the next update; hopefully it will.

That is quite clearly a feature.

(Nah, I kid. It's a bug that I keep forgetting about any time I'm updating the bug list or actually working on the code... xD)

Looks neat! Pretty amazing how quickly you're pumping out these tilesets - it usually takes me quite a while to create each one!

So, following Nepster's thoughts on why there's no problem with it, as well as to increase the number of entries (even if just by one xD), I've decided to enter a level myself in this contest.

I found and fixed the cause of that bug.

Other features I want to add for the next update:
- Improved "Validate Level" menu; I want to make it so that it presents a list of detected problems, and you can select individual ones and tell the editor to automatically fix them (as well as a "Fix All" button of course) for any that is possible to do so. For example, terrain pieces / objects that don't exist in the graphic set, save requirements higher than the number of lemmings in the level (taking into account Cloners, of course), etc.
- A mass conversion feature to quickly convert a bunch of levels between formats.

Anything else that anyone thinks should be in the next version?

As cool as that would be; NeoLemmix doesn't have room for any more skills in the level format, nor would it be very easy to implement further new ones in the current code (even implementing these 8 was quite a hassle; I'm glad that when I implemented the first 7 I thought ahead and decided "I'll probably want to add one more later" and thus designed the code to be prepared for that).