Lemmings Boards > Level Design

Best way avoid make backroutes?

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namida:
Test. Test some more. Get others to test too.

You can try approaching your level as a "skills you can't live without" challenge; Nepster mentioned he frequently did this as a backroute testing strategy. It won't catch everything though.

No matter how thoroughly you test, some backroutes might still slip through. I discovered one in LPII a few years ago that would've worked even in the initial Lemmix version, but went undetected all this time despite being very simple.

MASTER-88:

--- Quote ---"skills you can't live without" challenge; Nepster mentioned he frequently did this as a backroute testing strategy. It won't catch everything though.
--- End quote ---

Thats is one i use myself a lot. I just counted those skills and and skills you cannot solved, i´ll just list those skills pen & paper and try another approach. How ever this strategys is useful levels where is very less skills. But levels where is several skill and much lenght, its quite pointless.

I´ll personally like make speedrun levels, because not need worry about backroutes, but have to throw tons tricks in one go. I did High Speed Steel Wrok (my own version & also amiga version) Those levels are backroute free, just all is enought when you saved all in timelimit. Yes its one Lemmings levels category. If we want make strategy levels its not work here, then we have to think a lot.

Most backroute free levels are speedrunlevels and button smash levels.. Fun to build & hard to completed, but you are allowed use what ever way you want. Only goal is completion. Some individual tricks are really hard to throw., I´ll see this in Crane pack without slip backroutes, its really hard.

I´ll also PM with Crane he is tired. I think he will need some rest. Im not want are that asshole who make his live too hard and spam backroutes all times. So if we i have to keep break we will keep it. Crane is extremely good lemmings builder. But those intention ideas is very hard to got finnish without backroutes. Its not easy for me too. We spend few levels over 8 hours work in row and we both was very tired at this point.

MASTER-88:
I´ll always agree how hard its avoid make backroutes and make some "Extreme" ideas work. Armani is very good test player with my progress pack. Also Crane are played some my extreme levels.

My goal is make 1-2 Extreme level per week and bunch easier levels. Extreme levels includes always some sharp things which are really hard got to goal without breaking ideas.

One my work level really loved allow backroutes. I´ll personally not want allow those here, because there is one very unique trick and bunch other cool tricks. IIRC that is 3-4 version test with Armani. I am worked that level 3 day rightnow. Let see did i ever got my idea perfectly working here, but will be happy if i ever got it even accetable enought.

My progress pack contains more trick theme than custom+ series. I´ll learn a lot new tricks when i was testplayer with Crane pack and also more experience about neolemmings total. How ever my custom +3 is extremely good pack and surely my best public pack and first my pack which really are Extreme category and its big thanks with Armani about this. Custom+ 1 & 2 are more cunning packs than extreme packs.

But its fact most those "extreme levels" custom+ 3 was very easy to first public versions. Just added more sharp elements later update versions and make those levels extreme category. I never was got my pack good like this myself.

Its very important use test players if you want make very hard-extreme levels. When you make your own levels, you will more focus your main idea and forget check out other ideas. When someone else look same level and don´t know completion solution, he/she will look it way different.

We got Crane pack 1.05 version very well.  I think its very hard find backroutes Chaos modes anymore. How ever its will always possible. We patch those leves like mad. Few levels take 8-12 version to fix correct.

Armani:
From my level designing experience, if you try to make a level which features all the fancy tricks crammed into a single level that doesn't tend to go very well. Even more so if the level is small in size. It would be flooded by backroutes and ends up being a mess with a lot of backroute-fixing OWWs, fires, steel pieces and pick-ups. At worst, you are not going to properly fix the level despite all of these.

So these days I much prefer making logic-based levels.(levels that are centred around the placements and order of skills / decision making) And whenever I want to introduce some advanced tricks, I try not to include any other complicated tricks and focus on the main fancy trick I want to showcase.

My recent levels don't get backroutes as much as my old levels did. My upcoming pack(Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D) hasn't been backrouted so far by my pre-tester and I'm happy with that. (To be fair, she hasn't been able to solve several levels that supposed to be the hardest so there might be some backroutes to be found yet...) My levels were very vunerable to backroutes back in the day when I loved to make levels heavily based on complicated tricks.

As a tester of your levels, you are doing pretty good at backroute proofing your levels. Of course some of them take several versions but majority of them are quite solid from the first version.

MASTER-88:

--- Quote ---As a tester of your levels, you are doing pretty good at backroute proofing your levels. Of course some of them take several versions but majority of them are quite solid from the first version.
--- End quote ---

I´ll appericate this a lot. ;) You might change your mind when we progress that "cursed level" Cunning freeze circle. IIRC that 5-6 patched version. Maybe 4th with under your testing. :D

There is intented at least one advance trick i´ll want to show and combine few others cunning tricks.

My main idea my progress pack is Step 1, 2 & 3 levels most show basic & advance trick or tricks with easy situations. Step 4 & 5 levels you have figured out that thing and also add some other tricks or sharp elements make level harder. I think very good level might max contains 3 advance tricks or other sharph elements. Its usually very hard make more than 2.

BTW
My custom+ series (2 & 3)  contains a lot speedrun levels, button smash levels and zombie apocalypse levels. At least those levels are always techinically backroute free, because you are allowed use all your tricks make buttons down and open exit or survive alive middle of hundreds zombies. Those levels are actually quite fun to make, will add more different style levels with this time.

Long levels always requires some special theme. I was very glad my final level my custom+ 3. It is 25 minutes long, but definitely backroute free. Custom +2 final level is 10 minutes, but its quite bit same idea level.

IIRC my custom +3 contains another very long level 10-15 minutes: Red Sun Rise Step 5 level 27. That was simply too way impossible to build without allow your breaking it. I´ll forced add those two buttons. Its not my orginal intention reveal this route, but thats level not give me other choices.

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