NeoLemmix > NeoLemmix Levels
Integral Lemmings
IchoTolot:
I totally forgot 1 point in my feedback!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Delta 06: Make the masher buttons visible! :devil: Very important, we don't want hidden traps even with clear physics mode! :8():
Strato Incendus:
Correction: IchoTolot doesn't like hidden traps! :P Sometimes they are unavoidable by design (boulder trap in the Dirt tileset, grappling trap in the Purple tileset, and so on). I don't think people have come so far yet as to not use these traps at all anymore in new levels (because then Nepster would have culled them, I guess :evil: ).
I guess the general consensus among all forum members is, though: "Don't make traps hidden unless it is absolutely inevitable."
IchoTolot:
--- Quote from: Strato Incendus on September 22, 2018, 11:38:59 AM ---Correction: IchoTolot doesn't like hidden traps! :P Sometimes they are unavoidable by design (boulder trap in the Dirt tileset, grappling trap in the Purple tileset, and so on). I don't think people have come so far yet as to not use these traps at all anymore in new levels (because then Nepster would have culled them, I guess :evil: ).
I guess the general consensus among all forum members is, though: "Don't make traps hidden unless it is absolutely inevitable."
--- End quote ---
Correction: IchoTolot, Simon, Nepster......(insert user name here) don't like hidden traps. Don't act like I am the only one here!
If your design is only possible with hidden traps than it's just plain bad design! If a trap requires it to be hidden it's a badly designed trap! This fact isn't going to change regardless of how many people don't mind them. :8():
All people can think the earth is flat, but it's not going to change the truth.
New players most likely don't use the true physics that much and will get furios running into hidden traps.
It was the very first thing I was taught here by nearly everyone playing my levels back in the days - Don't hide your traps! I will glady pass that torch to everyone new.
Here in this case the mashers on Delta 6 would even look way better if they are just under the steel on the top and visible.
Strato Incendus:
And Arty and GigaLem have both made use of hidden traps and/or exits in their respective packs. ;) I think GigaLem has changed his stance on hidden traps pretty drastically since then, though, whereas Arty, in one of his SEB Lems LPs with GigaLem as a guest, said just recently that now with clear physics mode, there is no reason to complain about hidden traps ;) .
The main issue with GigaLems is that it's only available for NeoLemmix 1.43, which does not have clear physics yet. That is what makes hidden traps infuriating! :D So of course, back when you joined the forum, everyone told you not to hide your traps because there was no clear physics mode yet! ;)
That's also the reason why I tried harder to avoid them in Lemmicks.
--- Quote ---If a trap requires it to be hidden it's a badly designed trap! This fact isn't going to change regardless of how many people don't mind them.
--- End quote ---
That's not a fact; that's your opinion ;) . One can also easily make the case that it's a very cleverly designed trap!
I admit my sentence can be misread as if you were the only one against them; your statement, in contrast, can be read as if "hard-to-see traps are an absolute no-go" was a sentiment shared by everyone on the forum ;) .
As I said, my interpretation of the forum consensus is that people agree traps shouldn't be hidden more than necessary. But I haven't read of any widespread appeal so far to not use the boulder trap anymore ;) .
If the forum stance on hidden traps was that unanimous, I'm pretty sure we would have moved on to making traps "no overwrite"-objects by default (and disable any option to do it any other way). Even then, though, the boulder trap from the Dirt set or the grappling arm from Purple would still not be distinguishable from regular terrain.
IchoTolot:
--- Quote ---And Arty and GigaLem have both made use of hidden traps and/or exits in their respective packs. ;) I think GigaLem has changed his stance on hidden traps pretty drastically since then, though, whereas Arty, in one of his SEB Lems LPs with GigaLem as a guest, said just recently that now with clear physics mode, there is no reason to complain about hidden traps ;) .
The main issue with GigaLems is that it's only available for NeoLemmix 1.43, which does not have clear physics yet. That is what makes hidden traps infuriating! :D So of course, back when you joined the forum, everyone told you not to hide your traps because there was no clear physics mode yet! ;)
--- End quote ---
I say it again : New players most likely don't use the true physics that much and will get furios running into hidden traps.
Using clear physics as a cheap way out argument for every design issue doesn't make it any better, it doesn't change the core problem about lying to users.
Again: The case that some people don't mind it doesn't make bad design any better. The fact that many people smoke doesn't make it healthier.
--- Quote ---That's not a fact; that's your opinion ;) . One can also easily make the case that it's a very cleverly designed trap!
--- End quote ---
Sorry, that I would call a fact and I stand for that. Hiding things/features/functions/informations from users is bad design in any kind of program. Any kind of invisible trap can be replaced with a visible one and it's a straight upgrade and no, visuals don't matter here. Of course between the visible ones you wanna choose the best looking one.
Cleverly designed in a visual way don't make the bad design in general go away.
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