This is the type of thread that we’d no longer dare to open for NeoLemmix — but I must admit I also look forward to having stable and reliable physics in that engine, with the certainty that there won’t be any further changes.
In SuperLemmix, meanwhile, not only are physics changes still pending (like the behaviour of the Shimmier), but new objects are still being introduced, too — or at least, their potential introduction is still being discussed.While this makes me hesitate to create levels for SuperLemmix as long as future core physics changes to established skills / objects are likely (such as the Shimmier), it also looks like an opportunity to go back to the drawing board and wonder which of the skills we formerly considered for NeoLemmix might be suitable for SuperLemmix. Especially given the different philosophy SuperLemmix is moving towards.
And what better place to start out than with the Lemmings 2: The Tribes skills? 
A game notorious for its execution difficulty might be a valuable source for an engine like SuperLemmix, that deliberately brings some execution difficulty back into the mix. The crucial point is of course not to overdo it.
For that reason, I would personally not advocate for any of the skills that rely on the fan in Lemmings 2: The Tribes.
Or instead, if they should be considered for NeoLemmix, then in some altered version that no longer requires the fan.
Ballooner: This one might be interesting without the fan, since it can get up vertical obstacles that the Climber cannot pass. It would require an automatic move into the direction the lemming is currently walking, though, once it finishes. Alternatively, perhaps it could be implemented as an upward Glider, moving diagonally upwards as soon as it is assigned. This would also fit with the NeoLemmix / SuperLemmix version of the Laserer, which is diagonal, too — while L2s Laser Blaster is vertical.
Magic Carpet: This might qualify as an upward Glider, too. Or as a strictly horizontal “Flier” skill.
Jet Pack: Unless it’s implemented like one of the two skills described above, I see no way of using this without the fan. Therefore, a big no from me.
Twister: In L2, this is the main skill for digging diagonally upwards. We already have two ways to do that in SuperLemmix: The Fencer and the Laserer. The only use I could therefore still see for the Twister is the previously discussed idea of an upward Digger. Again, this would require the lemming to move into the direction it is facing, once the skill has been completed. Otherwise, the lemming will fall down its own shaft, and most likely splat in the process.
Surfer: We have previously discussed the utility of “one-time use” skills, which can create an interesting restriction to design levels around. Much like the “non-permanent skills” gimmick used to do, in NeoLemmix 1.43, where Climbers / Floaters etc. would lose their skills after a single use. The Surfer would be a non-permanent Swimmer. Alternatively, the same role could be given to the Kayaker. Obviously, that makes the respective other skill redundant. So if we decide we might want this, there should only be either the Surfer OR the Kayaker.
Note that neither the Surfer nor the Kayaker would be able to dive, which is a mechanic that does come up with Swimmers every now and then.
Parachuter: A Floater that can be moved by the fan, with no added benefits. So no, I don’t think we need this one.
Hang Glider: We have the Glider, so this one is superfluous, too.
Icarus Wings: Again, I can imagine this being a stand-in for some generic “flyer” skill — moving either upwards or horizontally. If considered, it should have a predictable trajectory. Even with that, it might be overpowered.
Honourable Mention: The Hoverboarder
This was a skill we briefly considered in NeoLemmix, as a similar thing to the Spearer: The lemming can fly through the air on his own hoverboard, but the hoverboard will stick in a wall like a Spearer’s projectile. There is obviously some overlap with the Surfer, here, too.
With destructive skills, there are some redundant ones, too:
Scooper: A slightly steeper Miner, no need for that.
Club Basher: A Basher that creates a slightly higher tunnel, superfluous.
Stomper: I still haven’t found the difference to the Digger to this day, so a big no.
Flame Thrower: This one is a little more interesting, in that it has a fixed area of destruction, much like the Bomber or Grenader. Plus, it’s non-lethal. Without the Grenader, this might have been worth considering. But given that you can still use a Grenader when standing right in front of a wall, in order to create a fixed crater without losing a lemming, the Grenader can probably accomplish most things the Flame Thrower could do, and then some.
Laser Blaster: Referring to the “upward Digger” idea here again. If we decide we could use an upward Digger in SuperLemmix, it should probably be called something different, so that the Laserer remains the way it is. And then we might as well go with a vertical Twister, as described above.
Essentially, that would mean Laserer and Twister swap roles from L2 to SuperLemmix:
- The Laserer is vertical in L2, diagonal in SuperLemmix.
- The Twister often goes diagonally in L2, but might be useful as a vertical skill in SuperLemmix.
For the constructive skills, most of them have already found their way into NeoLemmix, with three notable exceptions:
Sand Pourer, Glue Pourer, Filler: I’ve always found the Glue Pourer the most versatile of these three, since it can act as a Filler and a Platformer, depending on the terrain. If there’s some predictable way in which the Glue could be made to “pile up”, the Sand Pourer’s uses could be implemented in the same skill.
In short: I think there should only be one of these three. But in order to be considered worthy of inclusion, it would probably have to be at least versatile enough to feature aspects of all three of these skills.
I admit I always liked the idea of a lemming rising WITH the stack he builds. Especially now that we have Jumpers / Shimmiers / Walkers, to cancel such a Stacker anytime. Since the Stacker already exists in NeoLemmix / SuperLemmix, if a skill like the L2 Stacker should ever be considered, it would have to be named differently. “Tower Builder” or something.
Conversely, the L2 Planter essentially does what the NL / SL Stacker does. The problem with the Planter is that it works differently when facing to the left than when facing to the right, so the Planter gets a no from me.
With regards to the Shooting Skills, these are currently a unique feature of SuperLemmix over NeoLemmix:
The Spearer also covers the use of the Thrower, and some applications of the Archer.
The Grenader is basically SuperLemmix’s version of the Bazooka (coincidentally, the two most frequently used weapons in the “Worms” games ^^, with both Worms and Lemmings belonging to Team 17 currently). The Mortar’s use can also be covered by the Grenader.
That esentially only leaves the Roper worth considering. In the past, we contemplated the idea of the Roper being used as a downward Builder, specifically. Meaning, it should not be able to aim upwards, as it can in L2: The Tribes.
For the movement skills, some have been previously discussed for NeoLemmix already. The Jumper, Shimmier, and Slider were all taken directly from Lemmings 2, setting a good precedent here.
The Runner: It already exists in Lix, and the only reason it doesn’t in NeoLemmix is that it tends to add execution difficulty where the NeoLemmix player wants none. For SuperLemmix, though? It seems tailor-made!
Skier / Skater: This is a really fringe skill and borders on “joke” for me. However,
now that WillLem has started creating alternative water objects, such as Poison, who says that “Ice” (as it exists in L2 or perhaps Lemmings 3D) is ruled out?
Pole Vaulter: Another interesting way of overcoming non-Climber-friendly obstacles, that are also too high for the Jumper. It would probably require a skill shadow to show the lemming’s trajectory, like for the Jumper.
Rock Climber: Another fringe skill. With the Dangler state already implemented in SuperLemmix, plus the Shimmier being able to move up 45° slopes (which it can’t in L2), there is little extra benefit for the Rock Climber. The Rock Climber would go up even steeper slopes than the Shimmier, of course — and it would be facing the other direction while doing so.
The only thing that both Climbers and Rock Climbers can do in L2, which they can’t do in NeoLemmix, is to
transition from a Shimmier back into a Climber, i.e. go around an upward corner.The interesting challenge with this is that it tends to be much
harder to contain a Rock Climber than a regular Climber. Especially interesting with pre-assigned hatches. Try containing an entire crowd of Rock Climbers, because they go over almost anything!
That’s something that can’t happen in L2, since there are no pre-assigned skills there.
So it would be an interesting interaction in a NeoLemmix-based engine, like SuperLemmix.
Diver: Basically just a fancy Jumper, if implemented as in L2. What would be a lot more interesting, though, is if it could be assigned to a Swimmer to make him go down in a water pond, without requiring a ceiling of terrain to do so.
Attractor: This is basically just L2’s Blocker in all tribes except Classic. So I don’t really see any extra benefit.
SuperLem: The only skill that directly follows your mouse. Yes, it does add execution difficulty without requiring the fan. But if a player is good at handling this, especially with pausing / framestepping etc., it can single-handedly break a lot of levels, I would assume. Probably too overpowered. Keep in mind it can also be used like a Walker / Jumper / Shimmier to cancel other skills. That alone is enough to make Walkers one of the most powerful skills.
Magno Booter: This is one we previously discussed for NeoLemmix. It would probably be hard to code, though. Especially if, for added utility, it would work like the gravity-reversal objects in Lemmings Revolutoin, where Magno Booters could build / platform / stack / mine / fence / dig / laser-blast upside down.
Kayaker: See what I said above about the Surfer.
Hopper / Roller: These are really odd, in that they permanently alter the way a lemming moves through the level. While the same is true for the Runner, the Runner is just faster and jumps a little wider, which is easy to predict. With the Hopper and Roller, you never know where they’re gonna bump their heads, jump a little too wide and fall down a cliff, etc. So these two get a no from me.
Finally, the Wiki page from the Lemmings Fandom also lists three more skills I’ve never heard of:
- the “User” (what does this even do?), from the PC MS-DOS Demo
- Magic Bridge
- Pyramider (the latter two are from Sega Master System, Game Gear, and Game Boy)
I remember WillLem being one of the most active users on the “joke ideas for skills” threads I once created.
So I hope he won’t mind me at least bringing this up for consideration. While some L2 skills do look like jokes to me, the question of whether we might want to cherry-pick a few more from among them for SuperLemmix is indeed meant as a serious one.
To conclude, I’d pick a few of my favourites:
- the Runner: already present in Lix, and should be comparatively easy to implement
- the Roper and the Twister: downward Builder and upward Digger, respectively. These are the only directions of movements still missing for constructive and destructive skills, as far as I am aware.
- Ballooner or Pole Vaulter: something to overcome those pesky not-Climber friendly obstacles that are way too high for a Jumper or single Builder
- the Glue Pourer: the most versatile one of the Pourer skills
- the Magno Booter: probably the one with the most versatility, especially if it’s a permanent skill that can start using other skills upside down (which it can’t in L2: The Tribes). Probably the hardest to implement, though.
PS: L2: The Tribes also has trampolines. With the reintroduction of Radiation and Slowfreeze being discussed (=objects that assign Bombers and Freezers), I could see a trapoline acting as an object that turns a lemming into a Jumper, but only if he falls onto it from above. It would also prevent splatting, like an anti-splat pad or updraft. To simplify things, the Jumper width could be independent of fall height (in contrast to Lemmings 3D / L2: The Tribes).
Then again, if the Runner is considered, that would already be a skill that alters the Jumper’s range. So perhaps, these two questions should be discussed in context.
What are your thoughts? 