Author Topic: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic  (Read 13003 times)

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Offline WillLem

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2023, 10:06:06 PM »
These things don't warrant their own topic, but are changes that people might want to comment on. The next version of SuperLemmix has the following:

- I'd like to swap F2 and F3 in the menu screen, so that F2 opens the config and F3 opens the level select, whilst keeping the level select card in the centre. Is everyone OK with this? Or, would you prefer to keep the hotkeys the same and swap the card positions instead? If no replies, the hotkeys will be swapped.

- Auto Screen Start is now unchecked by default in the Editor.

Offline Floyd Brannon

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2023, 12:16:31 AM »
Yes. I think swapping the f2 and f3 would look better. I don't like the idea of swapping panels as well because you'd have two green colors together. And I ignore the F keys anyway and click the picture so I wouldn't have even noticed.

I would love to try my hand at making levels. I should look for a good tutorial video.

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2023, 12:49:44 AM »
I think this F-button swap is an improvement.

Back in 2015 I gathered all of the outdated community levels, updated the snowy ones for Super Lemmini and put together a pretty cool winter pack with 4 ranks and 16 levels per rank. Called "The Blizzard of Lemm".

I wish I had the know-how to update this pack to work with SLX.
If anyone is interested in updating this, here's a link to it: https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ8bW6VZynzFutxcNGmXO0rrAcw0w0FEw08X
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 01:15:24 AM by jkapp76 »
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2023, 05:03:29 AM »
@Jeremy

Since you gave me permission from a while back to make changes to your pack as I see fit, I decided to take care of the conversion to NL for you. Here's your Blizzard of Lemm SuperLemmini levels converted to NL. I haven't confirmed it, but they should all open fine in the NL editor of either NL or SLX. Also, even though the conversion went without a hitch, you still want to check things like whether the terrain shifted over when it shouldn't, traps to make sure they function properly, etc. This is because conversions aren't perfect, so it's great practice to double-check everything after converting anyway.

I haven't decided what to do with your "Snow Palace" level yet. As I stated quite a while back, I can confirm that all of your levels are solvable on SuperLemmini except for said level I mentioned. There just isn't enough time, but I have confirmed that with an extra minute added so that you're given 11 minutes, the level becomes possible. If keeping the 10 minutes as the level currently gives, it would need maybe more diggers to make the level possible.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2023, 08:12:06 PM »
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZmmx6VZv5fSNLCKdH7fduNKYCmrwpbMmlS7

Here's a link to "The Blizzard of Lemm"
I went over this and had to fix a few traps the lemmings were walking over and adjust a couple things. But it looks good so far. I didn't work my way through ever area so there could be an issue somewhere, but it's good enough to toss out here.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 02:45:50 AM by jkapp76 »
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline WillLem

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2023, 09:07:01 PM »
Since the only feedback I've had regarding swapping the F2/F3 hotkeys in the menu (F2 is now config, F3 is now levels) has been in the affirmative, this one has now gone through and will be effective as of the next release.

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2023, 04:36:43 PM »
My only question is...
What about all of the signs that already exist that have F2 printed right on the Level sign and F3 printed right on the Settings?

I opened up the Levels folder and did a search for "sign_config" and there are a lot of mainstream level packs that will have the F keys backwards.
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline WillLem

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2023, 07:39:12 PM »
What about all of the signs that already exist that have F2 printed right on the Level sign and F3 printed right on the Settings
... there are a lot of mainstream level packs that will have the F keys backwards.

From this topic:

Quote from: WillLem
it's been said from the beginning that the SLX development isn't concerned with previous (Neo)Lemmix content; this isn't to be dismissive or inconsiderate of the work that has gone into the many fantastic NL packs over the years, it's so we can have something of a fresh start and generate new ideas free from having to worry about existing content preservation.

To be more specific to this issue, though, we have an opportunity here to tidy things up like the menu graphics, UI layout, etc. If that means a few signs need to be updated to match the changes, I'd say it's a worthwhile trade-off :)

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2023, 07:47:14 PM »
To be more specific to this issue, though, we have an opportunity here to tidy things up like the menu graphics, UI layout, etc. If that means a few signs need to be updated to match the changes, I'd say it's a worthwhile trade-off :)

I think I've downloaded every level pack. I'm willing to update every sign to the new SLX standard if there's some way to make them available.
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline WillLem

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2023, 09:51:21 PM »
I think I've downloaded every level pack. I'm willing to update every sign to the new SLX standard if there's some way to make them available.

You can share them on the SuperLemmix board when they're ready - make a New Topic for each pack, that way people can comment on the packs individually, share replays, etc. I'll make an index for all SLX packs as well, once there are a decent amount on the board.

A few things to bear in mind before doing this, though:

* SuperLemmix physics are different from NeoLemmix, so packs will need to be checked for solvability even if they mostly play the same.
* Make sure that the original author is happy for you to modify and port their pack over to SuperLemmix, wherever possible.
* You might have to do some maintainence follow-up stuff like fixing levels, graphics, etc. if people find bugs/problems with the packs.

As long as that's all good, by all means go ahead and share the packs!

Online ericderkovits

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2023, 08:43:16 AM »
Now that Shimmiers can shimmy off walls (including stacks) when Climbing and then turn around, I was able to backroute LOA loud 5 (When I come around) again like before when I first played the pack. When Strato saw my solution he reported it, saying climbers shouldn't shimmy off stacks. Soon afterwards, Namida fixed it so shimmiers could not shimmy off stacks. Most if not all people agreed with Namida's fix.

here is my backroute solution again in Superlemmix 2.1.1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyigt9IZY0A

I think Strato wouldn't like this Superlemmix 2.1.1 change either since now this level can be backrouted again.

Strato thinks that only jumpers should jump off walls and not shimmiers

« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 09:30:53 AM by ericderkovits »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2023, 03:32:00 PM »
When Strato saw my solution he reported it, saying climbers shouldn't shimmy off stacks. Soon afterwards, Namida fixed it so shimmiers could not shimmy off stacks.

The purpose of allowing Climbers to always be assigned Shimmiers is to make it easier to transition from Climber>Shimmier when playing in real-time (particularly in Classic Mode, where skill queuing is deactivated). It's an intentional design decision and won't be reverted.

I think Strato wouldn't like this Superlemmix 2.1.1 change either since now this level can be backrouted again.

Unless it's a bug (which it isn't, in this case), behaviour won't be changed in order to preserve existing content that's already available for, and playable in, NeoLemmix. This goes for my own content as well - please don't take it personally.

The answer here is to fix the level so that it's playable in SuperLemmix, or replace it with a different level. With that said, it's also worth mentioning that whilst SLX development is in a fairly fluid, transitionary period, it's possible that more physics changes will be made until we're settled on a more or less stable version, which I'll be sure to announce as and when that time comes.

I'm going to try to put together some sort of design schedule so that players know what's coming and what to expect in terms of possible changes, but bear in mind that I'm still responding to other people's ideas as well as implementing my own (as an example, it's been suggested by a number of people that the Fencer tunnel be made wider, and this is something I'll get around to looking at in due course).

As you've no doubt already seen, I absolutely will fix bugs that arise as long as they're not intentional behaviour. So, please do continue to report anything you spot, but if it's related to a design decision that's been made for SuperLemmix, it's very unlikely to be actioned upon unless it's something that clearly breaks the game itself.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 05:54:50 PM by WillLem »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2023, 07:51:52 PM »
As a counterpoint to the previous post, here's an example of a change that's now been made to SuperLemmix not just because it breaks a level, but because it's also a game-breaking bug as well:

In Strato's Lemmings World Tour pack there is a level called Vegas Nights which demonstrates a Swimmer's ability to duck under a trap. The trick is to use a Stoner to create a piece of terrain which nudges the Swimmer down just enough pixels to make it past the trap's trigger (not a spoiler btw - the level makes the trick very obvious and even mentions it in the preview screen text).

SuperLemmix's Freezer (which has replaced the Stoner) currently explodes too high, so the resulting Freezer terrain doesn't have the same effect of nudging the lems underwater. This, I would consider to be a game-breaking change, because it restricts possibilities from both a designer and player POV.

Also, even if designing the Freezer skill from scratch, it's reasonable to expect that assigning them in water would create some sort of block which would either turn other Swimmers around entirely, or else cause them to dive a couple of pixels; this is something we'd want anyway.

So, in the next SLX update, Freezers explode 2px lower when assigned to a Swimmer. This fixes the behaviour so that it's a reliable game feature, and it allows the above existing level to play out as intended.

The point here being that it's still worth reporting anything that you find in older levels which may compromise the game in some way. Don't assume that the answer will always be the same; it will depend entirely on whether it's something we want for SuperLemmix or not.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2023, 09:28:41 PM »
The Ballooner is almost ready for pre-release testing!

I'd like to include this and one other skill in 2.5, which will also include a number of updates to the sprite sets (such as Zombie Walkers). So, we need to decide on one other skill which I can begin to implement for 2.5.

This will bring the total skills to 26 - just a reminder that I think 28 ought to be the limit. Since SLX allows 14 skills per-level, 28 seems like a good number to aim for since it's double that amount.

Or, we can even look at culling one skill to keep the total to 24, which is 3 x the Classic 8, and then not include any more skills after the Ballooner.

So, some questions to answer:

1) Which of the currently proposed skills would you like to see alongside the Ballooner in 2.5?
  • Runner/Hoverboarder - speeds up lemming during Walker state, extends Jumper range / Hoverboarder also glides above ground, gaining the lem a slight height advantage and potentially avoiding trigger areas
  • Ladderer - diagonally-downwards-oriented construction skill
  • Propeller/Twister - vertically-upwards-oriented destruction skill
  • Batter - moves other lemmings along a Jumper arc by hitting them with a bat
  • Surfer- single-use Swimmer, not likely to be implemented at all if we go with the Hoverboarder idea
2) Are you happy with 28 as a proposed limit on skills, or would you like this to be lower/higher?

3) Do you think we shouldn't add another skill, and instead cull a skill to keep the total at 24 (current Status Quo)?

All thoughts, comments, suggestions welcome!

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2023, 09:50:38 PM »
Here's my answers to your questions...

1) Which of the currently proposed skills would you like to see alongside the Ballooner in 2.5?
*Probably Ladderer.

2) Are you happy with 28 as a proposed limit on skills, or would you like this to be lower/higher?
*I actually don't know yet. 28 sounds good, but I hate to place restrictions like this. What if we get the ultimate idea
for a skill, but we already hit our set limit?

3) Do you think we shouldn't add another skill, and instead cull a skill to keep the total at 24 (current Status Quo)?
I'm happier to see a skill or two added.


I'm happy to see new objects too, like trampoline, which wouldn't add a skill. Or some of the other ideas, like spearing zombies?
...Jeremy Kapp