Author Topic: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack  (Read 26281 times)

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Offline mobius

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Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« on: April 27, 2013, 03:57:49 AM »
This pack is now released, please direct further discussion to the release topic:

Revenge of the Lemmings!

-- Clam




We, (the level selection committee) are putting together a community level pack(s) of 130 or more levels. This will be a compilation of the communities’ best levels.

To any interested:
you can nominate any number of levels from any level pack you've played. Be sure that you've solved the level or know for a fact that it is solvable.

-Look for levels that have the following qualities (but they don't have to have ALL of these):
fun, interesting, unique, well designed artistically, makes the player learn a new technique, use an old technique in a new way, design is easy on the eyes.

-We don't want levels that have any of the following qualities:
very tedious and don’t feel rewarding for it, extremely difficult to execute, confusing, poorly designed artistically, take a very, very long time to solve, really builder heavy

Glitch levels will now be accepted. There will be a rating specifically for them.

As far as difficulty goes, they can be easy or hard. There will be a “Fun” rating complete with tutorial levels in the beginning. Basically, “intuitiveness” is the key. I want a newcomer to be able to start from the beginning and play through the game with a decent difficulty curve.

I don’t want any new levels made for this; just old ones.
Later, there will be a voting and eliminate process to get levels down to a round number so we can have an even distribution of levels in the ratings.

These levels must be compatible with Lemmini or Lemmix. If your level needs some alterations to work in one or the other, please do so if you can. If not we will make the changes necessary.

If anyone has any objection to their levels being including in this pack, please let me know.

Remember: All I’m asking is for you to make a list of level names and their authors. You don’t have to send me anything. If you’ve made levels very recently you can mention it, but I’d like to get the older levels that have been around for a while for this first one. I’ll be doing all the work of putting them together in the pack.

Thanks to anyone who posts with a list (however small).
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline Gronkling

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 06:39:04 PM »
Here's the lemmings heaven contest 2010 levels. They're not anywhere else now the sites gone down and there is a few good levels in it. (Not mine though :P)
You could probably also ask Lacktardo on Youtube if he would send you any of his levels because there's some really good ones by him.
You can use my levels if you want. :) There's quite a few that don't use glitches still (though I don't see the harm in adding glitch levels right at the end).

Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2013, 10:20:20 PM »
I find this idea intriguing although it seems similar than Lix Community Level Set. So, the differences are that these levels are meant to be for a Lemmini pack and they have to be already existing levels. But there's definitely room for this kind of a collection pack in my opinion! :thumbsup: And I surely like to give my opinions of levels which I like the most. :)

Btw, how is Lix Community Level Set proceeding ??? How many levels there will be and does anybody know when it is "completed", or will it change all the time? I see there's this Community pack ratings topic, so the levels will there also be distributed in different ratings or so?

So, the glitch levels are banned, but otherwise they can be everything that we find great? CustLemm/Lemmix and Lemmini levels are those which I know the best, from cheapo I've played only Steve's notebook sets so far, and from Lix I've played the starter ratings of the main packs. Man, I should expand more of my Lemmings experiences to these games soon! For example, I haven't yet played Proxima's and purpletraitor's levels at all and I want to take a look at those.

Uci posted in the Lemmini Level Pack Topic one Lemmings site, which I hadn't been familiar with, this one: http://www.camanis.net/lemmings/files/levelpacks/ It resembles a little bit of the Lemmings File Portal. There are some levelpacks of level makers who aren't familiar for me. When I discussed about level packs generally in Lemmix Level Pack Topic somewhere around here a while ago, at least geoo gave me that kind of impression that he has played lots of levels and knows a lot different authors and levels, and his level bunches can be downloaded from here. But, does anyone know, who are some of those level authors in the camanis level pack site? Who are anth, cale, jann, jeff, jm, marshy, mart and matt, and which kind of levels they have? I'd like to hear comments if anyone know something about those. I guess I'll try first packs of those people some time..

Yea, that Lemmings Heaven Contest 2010 pack has definitely some impressive levels in it, like for example, one of the most awesome-looking levels ever, Dodochacalo's Perfect Harmony. Actually, I have also some stuff which I downloaded from Lemmings Heaven, so I might attach this post at least Lemmings Heaven Contest 2008 pack and Ellischant's E3levelpack_F. I don't know if those are available anywhere anymore, since Lemmings Heaven is down now.

Fun/Tricky ratings levels are probably going to be the hardest to gather, those are quite rare. :D And yep I guess you should ask authors' permissions for using their levels in this levelpack. I'll start to create some kind of a list of my favourite levels, should I post it then here that everyone can see it or PM to you or what? Anyway, I think I'm going to start to play some custom levels again and get to know of other level makers whose levels I haven't already played!

Yep Gronkling, Lacktardo is one incredibly splendid level designer, his levelpack is still in progress, but yeah feel free to ask him! :)

Offline mobius

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 12:16:27 AM »
okay, about the glitch levels. I may allow those after some deciding. If I do, however, they will be in a separate rating, like a bonus rating. I think it’s only fair that the player know ahead of time if a level requires a glitch or some other odd behavior. Basically I want this levelpack to be accessible to a newcomer. Finding a glitch level in among “normal” levels can be confusing and turn some people off from the whole thing.

There are so many levels to choose from. Feel free to mention a lot, because there will be an elimination process later. I already have well over 100 myself.  :D
I’d like level names and their authors specifically. However, if you’d like to mention every single level from one particular pack you may. With the important exception of really big packs like Dovelems or Namida’s. I’d rather not have an entire big pack like that mentioned but rather; individual levels from it.
Also: please only mention levels that you have solved or know for a fact to be solvable.
You can post your lists here in this topic.
I'd like to shift the focus from levelpacks, to individual levels. As; by the time we get all the recommendations in, we'll have a huge list of levels, possibly well over twice the needed limit.

I think finding easy levels may be easier then we thought; Namida has a large amount in his big set. Also Pieuw and Dodochocalo made a bunch of really good ones.
Also; there is something I could do which requires permission from the author. But If I'm really at a loss for good Fun levels, I could turn somebody's regular level into a Fun level and have it as a repeat. Would anybody be against this?

I will eventually upload an excel spreadsheet with a list of all the levels under consideration with notes of back routes or verification needed. In the case that a level has an issue whose author isn’t around; I’ll try to contact the author. If I can’t contact them I’ll try to fix the backroute myself. Would anybody be against that?

Also, @ Akseli, I re-read your detailed post of Mikau’s levelpack and feel kind of stupid now. I honestly forgot you made such a detailed post. I’m playing that whole pack right now.
Yes, Laktardo and LoftyD;  I still have to look at their levels. Oh boy, I’m getting real excited for this.  :D
I’ve already gotten permission from you guys and Pieuw. I’m pretty sure Clam Spammer, Insane Steve and geoo don’t mind. I’d like to get a look at Proxima’s cheapo levels but like I said, I don’t have that program (and I tried to use it once and that didn’t work at all). I don't know if they'll be room or time to consider levels from any of those other programs. I don't plan to remake any levels for this. Of course if anybody else wants to, you can.

Dodochocalo, Yawg, BulletRide, Namida, GigaLem, Elliscent, Laktardo and LoftyD are among ones I haven't talked to.

and thanks for taking interest  :thumbsup:
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline geoo

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 02:33:00 AM »
I dare say I have enough levels for the community pack, but I still accept submission. I have almost 200 levels now, some I still need to check, and some easier ones I still want to create and add. It's mostly a matter of organizing all of them, I aim for 6 stages of 40 levels each. I still haven't decided on names of the stages (there was a topic on that too iirc), and I was hoping of setting up some tools to help me with organizing this, but maybe I'll just do it by hand in the end. I haven't really been pressed for time yet as Simon isn't ready to fully release Lix yet.

As for the Lemmini pack, if you get all your levels in .lvl format, you could also add a Lemmix version in addition, just using the Lemmix player.
I'm a bit skeptical about adding levels from complete level sets like DoveLems or namida's Lemmix level set, as those are already standalone level sets and you don't really want repeats, as chances are people will play both. That's why I'm not including any of Clam's or RubiX' (except for the one RubiX specifically made for this) in the Lix community pack.

anthpck and a lot of other packs from the camanis site are from here iirc:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030209180107/http://vtm.hypermart.net/Pages/Lemm/Levels/Gateway.htm
The jm packs are from JM from the old forum, in this forum Joemon; marshy packs are from a former forum member McMarshy I think.
I think I have only played very few of these.

I have mostly played levels when people released them in the forums, so e.g. I've play BulletRide's levels, but many of these have been a long time ago.
I just quickly flipped through Steve's levels, and ones I think you should definitely consider including are 3-4, 4-2 and 9-9. There are a lot more good ones, here's a list that is not comprehensive, but includes the levels I remember being particularly fun: 1-1, 1-2, 1-8, 2-2, 2-3, 3-1, 4-3, 5-1, 5-9, 6-8, 7-3, 9-1, 9-6, 10-6 (if you eliminate all the backroutes), 10-8. I'm pretty sure there's at least the same amount of levels that are just as fun but that I simply don't remember.
I might go through BulletRide's levels next to pick some favourites.

Offline Clam

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 03:23:54 AM »
Here are my personal favourites from my packs (sorted by levelpack). If you've played my Lix set you'll notice these are mostly the same ones I remade there :). There are some more that I've had good comments about but I'm not happy with because of backroutes or other things.

01
Hello, Goodbye
FALL AND DIE
Leaky Building Syndrome

02
Bumpy Ride *
About Face!

03
RABBIX *
Crevasse
Turning the Screws

04
Builders' Cracks
Training Zone Alpha (mainly for graphical reasons :))
From the Brink

05
All of them (except 9 maybe) - it helps that they are easier levels and also that I redid the whole pack to make it better :)

Xmas
Spiralling Snowstorm


* I posted improved versions here, but the attachment is gone ???. I hope this isn't due to the forum "upgrade"..... I've attached it here anyway. (And no, I never did finish that levelpack)


Also (by request from IRC) the levels that require glitches as I see it, nowhere near as many as I thought:

Get out of the pool! (02)
Rise Through the Ranks (04)
The Floodgates Open (04)


Unfortunately many of my levels don't work in Lemmini (not just glitch ones) - I don't know which, but I remember once trying my first couple of packs and couldn't do half of them :-\. If we go ahead with the pack then I should look at this again.

Online Proxima

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 10:52:32 AM »
I’d like to get a look at Proxima’s cheapo levels but like I said, I don’t have that program (and I tried to use it once and that didn’t work at all).
Easy enough to look at them -- with very few exceptions, the good ones are the ones I've already remade in Lix. 8)

Offline mobius

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 01:32:14 AM »
geoo, a lot of the links (not all) on that webpage are broken. I can’t download MazuLems.
But of what I found —there are a lot of cool levels there!

nevermind, I was being silly

-------------
I don’t plan on including a lot of levels from the big packs. But I definitely want a few. There are some really good tutorial levels by Dodo and some of the others. And I honestly don’t have much to choose from (that I know of) of tutorial or Fun levels.

------------
About Face doesn’t work in Lemmini (I don’t think). But I’m not sure I really want to include levels like this one anyway. It’s just that it’s kind of an odd mechanic that a lemming turns around when bashing. It’s one of those smaller odd parts of the game that I want this levelpack to be as free of as possible. (of course by the end of this that wish will probably end up in the toilet) If it does work in Lemmini though, I may include it. Maybe in the bonus stage

------------
Also, I definitely want to consider the packs from our two recent contests. (holler if you're against it)

thanks for the lists.  :)
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline Clam

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 01:59:04 AM »
About Face doesn’t work in Lemmini (I don’t think). But I’m not sure I really want to include levels like this one anyway. It’s just that it’s kind of an odd mechanic that a lemming turns around when bashing. It’s one of those smaller odd parts of the game that I want this levelpack to be as free of as possible. (of course by the end of this that wish will probably end up in the toilet) If it does work in Lemmini though, I may include it. Maybe in the bonus stage

Yeah, this is the sort of thing I was talking about. My levels fly close to the edge of L1 mechanics, which isn't ideal for version compatibility  :-\

Offline Minim

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 09:32:14 AM »
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I wonder if some of my old levels (i.e. made back in 2008, and also, having to skip a few pages to get to these packs at the database :() will make the cut. I'm sure that some of those won't be too difficult, especially those at the top of each pack.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 09:48:02 AM »
I've tested all my Lemmix levels in Lemmini. Here are the results!

"O" means the intended solution (or something close to it) works. This doesn't necessarily mean I recommend it for the pack (see my above posts for that)
"X" means the intended solution doesn't work. Some are flat out unsolvable, some may have backroutes that still work

Notes:
- Many X's are fixable easily, eg. if a builder's bridge doesn't stretch far enough you could close gaps slightly to compensate.
- Time complaints can be fixed by simply setting a higher time limit. In fact this should be done for all levels anyway :)
- Screen start locations seem to be off for most levels too.
- Does Lemmini support the Xmas/Holiday terrain?

01
Hello, Goodbye - O
Lemming Recycling Plant - O
FALL AND DIE - O - time out too soon, had to modify solution
The Square Route of Lemmings - O - extra precision needed (builders)
Dig This! - O - extra precision needed (diggers)
Catch Your Death - X - builder bridge too short
Leaky Building Syndrome - X - climber falls through chain holes instead of climbing out
Rounds and Swingabouts - O - slight modification because builder hits ceiling, not quite intended solution but whatever
Singular Squish - O - but horrible backroute still works (the traps seem to have a wider range here, so an extra trap or steel might fix it)
Escape from Alcatraz - X - Basher doesn't continue bashing 6px high wall

02
Bumpy Ride - O - extra precision needed due to time
The Christmas Rush - X - need Xmas terrain
Cut the Red Wire - O
Times Four - X - overzealous steel areas
Get out of the pool - X - can't break steel, water glitch doesn't happen
Go Fetch! - O - extra precision needed (time)
Brick Replacement Therapy - X - splat height, digger stops immediately when ground gone
A.T. on an Angle - O - possibly minor changes (not 100% sure what the original solution was)
About Face! - X - trick doesn't work
Stay out of the pool - O

03
Barrel o' Laughs - X - splat height and time
RABBIX - O - time issue
Who lives... and who dies - X - steel area stops bashing OWW, also likely time out
Crevasse - O - extra precision needed (builders)
Turning the screws - X - trick doesn't work
Nothing to Lose - O
Pillars of Hades - X - builder doesn't extend far enough for the trick to work. Could be done with serious modification I suppose...
The Other Side - O
Lem Ramp Scam - X - requires edge-of-steel bombing
The Dying Seconds - O - could use maybe 10 seconds more time :\

04
Flotilla - X - splat height (splat in one place where they shouldn't)
Rise Through the Ranks - X - the glitch works (!) but they can't climb through the platforms at the start
Empty Apartment - X - miners don't turn on steel
Builders' Cracks - O - extra precision needed (builders)
Coming down alive - X - can't dig between the steel blocks (also the builder/digger trick doesn't work for v2)
Mont Blanc Tunnel - O - extra precision / fiddling needed. Setting a different RR might work (a quick test suggests RR52 is ok)
Training Zone Alpha - X - splat height. Seems like a modified solution would work with a floater added.
Dropout - O - stacking bashers is extremely difficult
From the Brink - X - glitch needed (add 2 floaters to fix)
The Floodgates Open - X - glitch/trick doesn't work

05
A step too far? - O
MORE WEE CREATURES! - O - complication in one "normal" solution, but there other easier methods anyway
Play Bridge - O - stacking builders is hard making this unnecesarily difficult
Works on so many levels - O
The endless steps - O
Lem Squared - O
Altitude Training - O - some things don't work as nicely as in Lemmix (actually that applies to most levels really)
Fill the floor - X - builder doesn't go far enough (close the gap to fix)
Circus Lemmings in Training - O
Guns Blazing - X - flamethrower trigger goes too far (move it across to fix)

"06"
Singular Squish II - X - miner doesn't turn on steel
Bumpy Ride II - X - builder doesn't go far enough (close gap to fix)
RABBIX II - O
Digger Convergence - O

Xmas packs - need Xmas terrain

Offline Akseli

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 02:48:52 PM »
anthpck and a lot of other packs from the camanis site are from here iirc:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030209180107/http://vtm.hypermart.net/Pages/Lemm/Levels/Gateway.htm
The jm packs are from JM from the old forum, in this forum Joemon; marshy packs are from a former forum member McMarshy I think.
Thanks geoo! :thumbsup: It seems that you are always capable to answer my questions related to (older) levels/packs. :) There are many new (for me) level makers there, and yeah some of Joemon's levels I've played already, didn't know that he is "jm". Nice that there are level images also, so I probably could decipher whether the levels are worth of playing.

I don’t plan on including a lot of levels from the big packs. But I definitely want a few. There are some really good tutorial levels by Dodo and some of the others. And I honestly don’t have much to choose from (that I know of) of tutorial or Fun levels.
That's what I meant saying that good easy levels are rare. :P If we think about basic 10-level packs, there are very few good beginner levels. Large packs of course are different things, they contain those, but these packs are rare also, so there are only rather few choices I guess. And I totally understand geoo's next phrase:
I'm a bit skeptical about adding levels from complete level sets like DoveLems or namida's Lemmix level set, as those are already standalone level sets and you don't really want repeats, as chances are people will play both.

And on the other hand though, I understand what möbius is trying to pursue with this compilation pack, gathering the nicest levels from different packs together.

As for the Lemmini pack, if you get all your levels in .lvl format, you could also add a Lemmix version in addition, just using the Lemmix player.
It would be excellent if the pack would be played in both Lemmix and Lemmini, although it sounds terribly hard. :XD: It would restrict a huge amount of levels due to so different game mechanics.
some things don't work as nicely as in Lemmix (actually that applies to most levels really)
That said. Levels which have been created for DOS/Lemmix won't easily work as intended in Lemmini, and vice versa. In most cases, levels which are initially meant to be playable in Lemmini feel like that they also work a lot smoother in Lemmini than in Lemmix. Clam's list looks little depressing for example, almost half of the levels won't work at all in Lemmini, although they're some of the best ones for Lemmix. But, it's definitely interesting to find out which levels are workable in both Lemmix and Lemmini, and then try to collect the nicest of them together! : )

- Does Lemmini support the Xmas/Holiday terrain?
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=698.msg15546#msg15546

Alright, level lists then: I would add Steve's levels list at least 3-9 (With left exit removed! ;)), 8-1, 8-2, 8-5, 8-6, 8-9 and I'm surprised geoo that you didn't include your list your two favourite levels of ISteve10, 10-4 and 10-7. :P Quickly thinking I'd say they should work in Lemmini.

My favourites (which doesn't involve too glitchy or pixel precise tasks) of Gronkling's levels: 3-2, 3-7, 3-10, 4-1, 4-2, 4-3 (Most of these aforementioned levels have still fatal backroutes!), 5-1, 5-2, 5-4, 5-6, 6-2, 6-4, 6-5, 7-2.

And möbius, your levels :P: Jacob's Ladder, Askesis, The Picard Maneuver Part 1, Eye of the Needle, Conundrum, The French Connection, The Midas Touch, Tres Hombres (if it uses Pooty's solution :)).

More will come!

Offline Gronkling

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 05:28:22 PM »
Here's a list of my levels from my 3 latest packs, and whether or not they use glitches (* is full glitch, ~ is just strange behaviour), precise timing (* is hard, ~ isn't as much) or are one of my favourites (*) or hated (X don't use please  :XD:).
WARNING SPOILERS (Sort of)
PackLevel #NameGlitches?Timing?Favourite?
51Inside the pyramid
52Crossing the Chasm~
53Drifting away...~*
54Brick City* (Also fairly easy)
55Bubble Bath**
56Restoration in Progress
57Where clouds are made~
58Antarctic Secret Base**X
59Optical Fibre Land**X
510The Giant's Leap**
61Unclimb That Cliff!~*
62Lemming Storage Facility~*
63Mystery Machine*~*
64Balancing Act
65Ancient Clockwork*
66Radioactive Lemming~
67Lem.avi*X
68Just Over the Hill**
69Emerald City**
610Bring it Together!**X
71Lemmings Are Not Big Trucks~~
72Getting stuck in a cave~*
73Crossover~~*
74Now use Miners and Builders~*
75HELP~*
76GLITCHSPACE*** (Though only for appearance)
77Blocked Bridge*~*
78Industrial Park*** (My favourite level I have made)
79Four Quarters~*
710A DINOSAUR BLOCKS THE WAY*~*
Yeah not many of my levels are usable :P. I'm aiming to make my next pack glitch-free and hard-timing-free though

Offline Minim

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2013, 05:40:06 PM »
I've tested all my Lemmix levels in Lemmini. Here are the results!

Wow! :o I can't believe that there are so many of your levels that won't work on Lemmini. The mechanics must be quite different.

I've noticed for the splat height problem that you can actually modify it if you put these levels in a Lemmini level pack. The default maximum fall height is 126 pixels (because the resolution is doubled), and that can be changed to about 128 to fix some of these problems.
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Offline mobius

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Re: Lemmings Community Compilation Levelpack
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2013, 10:12:31 PM »
Quote
Akseli:
Alright, level lists then: I would add Steve's levels list at least 3-9 (With left exit removed!  ), 

Quote
sorry if I’m being dumb but, is this a joke or is there seriously a way to solve this level (The Shaft part 1) without finding the hidden exit?  :o

and THANK YOU for locating that Top 3 levels topic. I’d been looking for it, I knew there was something like it but couldn’t find.

Gronkling: in Acient Clockwork; the steel areas are too far to the right, so that they don’t cover the steel. Is this intentional?

Clam: would it be alright to add time to levels that require it, that you say are having time issues? (unless of course it breaks the level…)

----------------
I looked through (just a portion) of the database now and I’m finding a ton of good beginner levels actually, by different people, so that’s good.

thank you Akseli very much, again, for rating the difficulty of the packs in the database. that helps this process out a lot!

and I’ll definitely take a look at your levels minimac. :)

does anybody know where I can find this level finlay posted a picture of: It's not in his pack on the database
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=563.msg11839#msg11839
[oddly enough, I remember actually playing this level yet I lost it... :-\ ]
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain