Post by: mobius on April 27, 2013, 03:57:49 AM
Revenge of the Lemmings!
-- Clam
We, (the level selection committee) are putting together a community level pack(s) of 130 or more levels. This will be a compilation of the communities’ best levels.
To any interested:
you can nominate any number of levels from any level pack you've played. Be sure that you've solved the level or know for a fact that it is solvable.
-Look for levels that have the following qualities (but they don't have to have ALL of these):
fun, interesting, unique, well designed artistically, makes the player learn a new technique, use an old technique in a new way, design is easy on the eyes.
-We don't want levels that have any of the following qualities:
very tedious and don’t feel rewarding for it, extremely difficult to execute, confusing, poorly designed artistically, take a very, very long time to solve,
Glitch levels will now be accepted. There will be a rating specifically for them.
As far as difficulty goes, they can be easy or hard. There will be a “Fun” rating complete with tutorial levels in the beginning. Basically, “intuitiveness” is the key. I want a newcomer to be able to start from the beginning and play through the game with a decent difficulty curve.
I don’t want any new levels made for this; just old ones.
Later, there will be a voting and eliminate process to get levels down to a round number so we can have an even distribution of levels in the ratings.
These levels must be compatible with Lemmini or Lemmix. If your level needs some alterations to work in one or the other, please do so if you can. If not we will make the changes necessary.
If anyone has any objection to their levels being including in this pack, please let me know.
Remember: All I’m asking is for you to make a list of level names and their authors. You don’t have to send me anything. If you’ve made levels very recently you can mention it, but I’d like to get the older levels that have been around for a while for this first one. I’ll be doing all the work of putting them together in the pack.
Thanks to anyone who posts with a list (however small).
Post by: Gronkling on April 27, 2013, 06:39:04 PM
)You could probably also ask Lacktardo on Youtube if he would send you any of his levels because there's some really good ones by him.
You can use my levels if you want.
There's quite a few that don't use glitches still (though I don't see the harm in adding glitch levels right at the end).
Post by: Akseli on April 27, 2013, 10:20:20 PM
And I surely like to give my opinions of levels which I like the most. Btw, how is Lix Community Level Set proceeding
How many levels there will be and does anybody know when it is "completed", or will it change all the time? I see there's this Community pack ratings topic, so the levels will there also be distributed in different ratings or so?So, the glitch levels are banned, but otherwise they can be everything that we find great? CustLemm/Lemmix and Lemmini levels are those which I know the best, from cheapo I've played only Steve's notebook sets so far, and from Lix I've played the starter ratings of the main packs. Man, I should expand more of my Lemmings experiences to these games soon! For example, I haven't yet played Proxima's and purpletraitor's levels at all and I want to take a look at those.
Uci posted in the Lemmini Level Pack Topic one Lemmings site, which I hadn't been familiar with, this one: http://www.camanis.net/lemmings/files/levelpacks/ It resembles a little bit of the Lemmings File Portal. There are some levelpacks of level makers who aren't familiar for me. When I discussed about level packs generally in Lemmix Level Pack Topic somewhere around here a while ago, at least geoo gave me that kind of impression that he has played lots of levels and knows a lot different authors and levels, and his level bunches can be downloaded from here. But, does anyone know, who are some of those level authors in the camanis level pack site? Who are anth, cale, jann, jeff, jm, marshy, mart and matt, and which kind of levels they have? I'd like to hear comments if anyone know something about those. I guess I'll try first packs of those people some time..
Yea, that Lemmings Heaven Contest 2010 pack has definitely some impressive levels in it, like for example, one of the most awesome-looking levels ever, Dodochacalo's Perfect Harmony. Actually, I have also some stuff which I downloaded from Lemmings Heaven, so I might attach this post at least Lemmings Heaven Contest 2008 pack and Ellischant's E3levelpack_F. I don't know if those are available anywhere anymore, since Lemmings Heaven is down now.
Fun/Tricky ratings levels are probably going to be the hardest to gather, those are quite rare.
And yep I guess you should ask authors' permissions for using their levels in this levelpack. I'll start to create some kind of a list of my favourite levels, should I post it then here that everyone can see it or PM to you or what? Anyway, I think I'm going to start to play some custom levels again and get to know of other level makers whose levels I haven't already played!Yep Gronkling, Lacktardo is one incredibly splendid level designer, his levelpack is still in progress, but yeah feel free to ask him!
Post by: mobius on April 28, 2013, 12:16:27 AM
There are so many levels to choose from. Feel free to mention a lot, because there will be an elimination process later. I already have well over 100 myself.
I’d like level names and their authors specifically. However, if you’d like to mention every single level from one particular pack you may. With the important exception of really big packs like Dovelems or Namida’s. I’d rather not have an entire big pack like that mentioned but rather; individual levels from it.
Also: please only mention levels that you have solved or know for a fact to be solvable.
You can post your lists here in this topic.
I'd like to shift the focus from levelpacks, to individual levels. As; by the time we get all the recommendations in, we'll have a huge list of levels, possibly well over twice the needed limit.
I think finding easy levels may be easier then we thought; Namida has a large amount in his big set. Also Pieuw and Dodochocalo made a bunch of really good ones.
Also; there is something I could do which requires permission from the author. But If I'm really at a loss for good Fun levels, I could turn somebody's regular level into a Fun level and have it as a repeat. Would anybody be against this?
I will eventually upload an excel spreadsheet with a list of all the levels under consideration with notes of back routes or verification needed. In the case that a level has an issue whose author isn’t around; I’ll try to contact the author. If I can’t contact them I’ll try to fix the backroute myself. Would anybody be against that?
Also, @ Akseli, I re-read your detailed post of Mikau’s levelpack and feel kind of stupid now. I honestly forgot you made such a detailed post. I’m playing that whole pack right now.
Yes, Laktardo and LoftyD; I still have to look at their levels. Oh boy, I’m getting real excited for this.
I’ve already gotten permission from you guys and Pieuw. I’m pretty sure Clam Spammer, Insane Steve and geoo don’t mind. I’d like to get a look at Proxima’s cheapo levels but like I said, I don’t have that program (and I tried to use it once and that didn’t work at all). I don't know if they'll be room or time to consider levels from any of those other programs. I don't plan to remake any levels for this. Of course if anybody else wants to, you can.
Dodochocalo, Yawg, BulletRide, Namida, GigaLem, Elliscent, Laktardo and LoftyD are among ones I haven't talked to.
and thanks for taking interest
Post by: geoo on April 28, 2013, 02:33:00 AM
As for the Lemmini pack, if you get all your levels in .lvl format, you could also add a Lemmix version in addition, just using the Lemmix player.
I'm a bit skeptical about adding levels from complete level sets like DoveLems or namida's Lemmix level set, as those are already standalone level sets and you don't really want repeats, as chances are people will play both. That's why I'm not including any of Clam's or RubiX' (except for the one RubiX specifically made for this) in the Lix community pack.
anthpck and a lot of other packs from the camanis site are from here iirc:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030209180107/http://vtm.hypermart.net/Pages/Lemm/Levels/Gateway.htm
The jm packs are from JM from the old forum, in this forum Joemon; marshy packs are from a former forum member McMarshy I think.
I think I have only played very few of these.
I have mostly played levels when people released them in the forums, so e.g. I've play BulletRide's levels, but many of these have been a long time ago.
I just quickly flipped through Steve's levels, and ones I think you should definitely consider including are 3-4, 4-2 and 9-9. There are a lot more good ones, here's a list that is not comprehensive, but includes the levels I remember being particularly fun: 1-1, 1-2, 1-8, 2-2, 2-3, 3-1, 4-3, 5-1, 5-9, 6-8, 7-3, 9-1, 9-6, 10-6 (if you eliminate all the backroutes), 10-8. I'm pretty sure there's at least the same amount of levels that are just as fun but that I simply don't remember.
I might go through BulletRide's levels next to pick some favourites.
Post by: Clam on April 28, 2013, 03:23:54 AM
. There are some more that I've had good comments about but I'm not happy with because of backroutes or other things.01
Hello, Goodbye
FALL AND DIE
Leaky Building Syndrome
02
Bumpy Ride *
About Face!
03
RABBIX *
Crevasse
Turning the Screws
04
Builders' Cracks
Training Zone Alpha (mainly for graphical reasons
)From the Brink
05
All of them (except 9 maybe) - it helps that they are easier levels and also that I redid the whole pack to make it better
Xmas
Spiralling Snowstorm
* I posted improved versions here, but the attachment is gone
. I hope this isn't due to the forum "upgrade"..... I've attached it here anyway. (And no, I never did finish that levelpack)Also (by request from IRC) the levels that require glitches as I see it, nowhere near as many as I thought:
Get out of the pool! (02)
Rise Through the Ranks (04)
The Floodgates Open (04)
Unfortunately many of my levels don't work in Lemmini (not just glitch ones) - I don't know which, but I remember once trying my first couple of packs and couldn't do half of them
. If we go ahead with the pack then I should look at this again.
Post by: Proxima on April 28, 2013, 10:52:32 AM
I’d like to get a look at Proxima’s cheapo levels but like I said, I don’t have that program (and I tried to use it once and that didn’t work at all).Easy enough to look at them -- with very few exceptions, the good ones are the ones I've already remade in Lix.
Post by: mobius on April 29, 2013, 01:32:14 AM
But of what I found —there are a lot of cool levels there!
nevermind, I was being silly
-------------
I don’t plan on including a lot of levels from the big packs. But I definitely want a few. There are some really good tutorial levels by Dodo and some of the others. And I honestly don’t have much to choose from (that I know of) of tutorial or Fun levels.
------------
About Face doesn’t work in Lemmini (I don’t think). But I’m not sure I really want to include levels like this one anyway. It’s just that it’s kind of an odd mechanic that a lemming turns around when bashing. It’s one of those smaller odd parts of the game that I want this levelpack to be as free of as possible. (of course by the end of this that wish will probably end up in the toilet) If it does work in Lemmini though, I may include it. Maybe in the bonus stage
------------
Also, I definitely want to consider the packs from our two recent contests. (holler if you're against it)
thanks for the lists.
Post by: Clam on April 29, 2013, 01:59:04 AM
About Face doesn’t work in Lemmini (I don’t think). But I’m not sure I really want to include levels like this one anyway. It’s just that it’s kind of an odd mechanic that a lemming turns around when bashing. It’s one of those smaller odd parts of the game that I want this levelpack to be as free of as possible. (of course by the end of this that wish will probably end up in the toilet) If it does work in Lemmini though, I may include it. Maybe in the bonus stage
Yeah, this is the sort of thing I was talking about. My levels fly close to the edge of L1 mechanics, which isn't ideal for version compatibility
Post by: Minim on April 29, 2013, 09:32:14 AM
) will make the cut. I'm sure that some of those won't be too difficult, especially those at the top of each pack.
Post by: Clam on April 29, 2013, 09:48:02 AM
"O" means the intended solution (or something close to it) works. This doesn't necessarily mean I recommend it for the pack (see my above posts for that)
"X" means the intended solution doesn't work. Some are flat out unsolvable, some may have backroutes that still work
Notes:
- Many X's are fixable easily, eg. if a builder's bridge doesn't stretch far enough you could close gaps slightly to compensate.
- Time complaints can be fixed by simply setting a higher time limit. In fact this should be done for all levels anyway
- Screen start locations seem to be off for most levels too.
- Does Lemmini support the Xmas/Holiday terrain?
01
Hello, Goodbye - O
Lemming Recycling Plant - O
FALL AND DIE - O - time out too soon, had to modify solution
The Square Route of Lemmings - O - extra precision needed (builders)
Dig This! - O - extra precision needed (diggers)
Catch Your Death - X - builder bridge too short
Leaky Building Syndrome - X - climber falls through chain holes instead of climbing out
Rounds and Swingabouts - O - slight modification because builder hits ceiling, not quite intended solution but whatever
Singular Squish - O - but horrible backroute still works (the traps seem to have a wider range here, so an extra trap or steel might fix it)
Escape from Alcatraz - X - Basher doesn't continue bashing 6px high wall
02
Bumpy Ride - O - extra precision needed due to time
The Christmas Rush - X - need Xmas terrain
Cut the Red Wire - O
Times Four - X - overzealous steel areas
Get out of the pool - X - can't break steel, water glitch doesn't happen
Go Fetch! - O - extra precision needed (time)
Brick Replacement Therapy - X - splat height, digger stops immediately when ground gone
A.T. on an Angle - O - possibly minor changes (not 100% sure what the original solution was)
About Face! - X - trick doesn't work
Stay out of the pool - O
03
Barrel o' Laughs - X - splat height and time
RABBIX - O - time issue
Who lives... and who dies - X - steel area stops bashing OWW, also likely time out
Crevasse - O - extra precision needed (builders)
Turning the screws - X - trick doesn't work
Nothing to Lose - O
Pillars of Hades - X - builder doesn't extend far enough for the trick to work. Could be done with serious modification I suppose...
The Other Side - O
Lem Ramp Scam - X - requires edge-of-steel bombing
The Dying Seconds - O - could use maybe 10 seconds more time :\
04
Flotilla - X - splat height (splat in one place where they shouldn't)
Rise Through the Ranks - X - the glitch works (!) but they can't climb through the platforms at the start
Empty Apartment - X - miners don't turn on steel
Builders' Cracks - O - extra precision needed (builders)
Coming down alive - X - can't dig between the steel blocks (also the builder/digger trick doesn't work for v2)
Mont Blanc Tunnel - O - extra precision / fiddling needed. Setting a different RR might work (a quick test suggests RR52 is ok)
Training Zone Alpha - X - splat height. Seems like a modified solution would work with a floater added.
Dropout - O - stacking bashers is extremely difficult
From the Brink - X - glitch needed (add 2 floaters to fix)
The Floodgates Open - X - glitch/trick doesn't work
05
A step too far? - O
MORE WEE CREATURES! - O - complication in one "normal" solution, but there other easier methods anyway
Play Bridge - O - stacking builders is hard making this unnecesarily difficult
Works on so many levels - O
The endless steps - O
Lem Squared - O
Altitude Training - O - some things don't work as nicely as in Lemmix (actually that applies to most levels really)
Fill the floor - X - builder doesn't go far enough (close the gap to fix)
Circus Lemmings in Training - O
Guns Blazing - X - flamethrower trigger goes too far (move it across to fix)
"06"
Singular Squish II - X - miner doesn't turn on steel
Bumpy Ride II - X - builder doesn't go far enough (close gap to fix)
RABBIX II - O
Digger Convergence - O
Xmas packs - need Xmas terrain
Post by: Akseli on April 29, 2013, 02:48:52 PM
anthpck and a lot of other packs from the camanis site are from here iirc:Thanks geoo!
http://web.archive.org/web/20030209180107/http://vtm.hypermart.net/Pages/Lemm/Levels/Gateway.htm
The jm packs are from JM from the old forum, in this forum Joemon; marshy packs are from a former forum member McMarshy I think.
It seems that you are always capable to answer my questions related to (older) levels/packs. There are many new (for me) level makers there, and yeah some of Joemon's levels I've played already, didn't know that he is "jm". Nice that there are level images also, so I probably could decipher whether the levels are worth of playing.I don’t plan on including a lot of levels from the big packs. But I definitely want a few. There are some really good tutorial levels by Dodo and some of the others. And I honestly don’t have much to choose from (that I know of) of tutorial or Fun levels.That's what I meant saying that good easy levels are rare.
If we think about basic 10-level packs, there are very few good beginner levels. Large packs of course are different things, they contain those, but these packs are rare also, so there are only rather few choices I guess. And I totally understand geoo's next phrase:I'm a bit skeptical about adding levels from complete level sets like DoveLems or namida's Lemmix level set, as those are already standalone level sets and you don't really want repeats, as chances are people will play both.
And on the other hand though, I understand what möbius is trying to pursue with this compilation pack, gathering the nicest levels from different packs together.
As for the Lemmini pack, if you get all your levels in .lvl format, you could also add a Lemmix version in addition, just using the Lemmix player.It would be excellent if the pack would be played in both Lemmix and Lemmini, although it sounds terribly hard.
It would restrict a huge amount of levels due to so different game mechanics.some things don't work as nicely as in Lemmix (actually that applies to most levels really)That said. Levels which have been created for DOS/Lemmix won't easily work as intended in Lemmini, and vice versa. In most cases, levels which are initially meant to be playable in Lemmini feel like that they also work a lot smoother in Lemmini than in Lemmix. Clam's list looks little depressing for example, almost half of the levels won't work at all in Lemmini, although they're some of the best ones for Lemmix. But, it's definitely interesting to find out which levels are workable in both Lemmix and Lemmini, and then try to collect the nicest of them together! : )
- Does Lemmini support the Xmas/Holiday terrain?http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=698.msg15546#msg15546
Alright, level lists then: I would add Steve's levels list at least 3-9 (With left exit removed!
), 8-1, 8-2, 8-5, 8-6, 8-9 and I'm surprised geoo that you didn't include your list your two favourite levels of ISteve10, 10-4 and 10-7. Quickly thinking I'd say they should work in Lemmini.My favourites (which doesn't involve too glitchy or pixel precise tasks) of Gronkling's levels: 3-2, 3-7, 3-10, 4-1, 4-2, 4-3 (Most of these aforementioned levels have still fatal backroutes!), 5-1, 5-2, 5-4, 5-6, 6-2, 6-4, 6-5, 7-2.
And möbius, your levels
: Jacob's Ladder, Askesis, The Picard Maneuver Part 1, Eye of the Needle, Conundrum, The French Connection, The Midas Touch, Tres Hombres (if it uses Pooty's solution ).More will come!
Post by: Gronkling on April 29, 2013, 05:28:22 PM
). WARNING SPOILERS (Sort of)
| Pack | Level # | Name | Glitches? | Timing? | Favourite? |
| 5 | 1 | Inside the pyramid | |||
| 5 | 2 | Crossing the Chasm | ~ | ||
| 5 | 3 | Drifting away... | ~ | * | |
| 5 | 4 | Brick City | * (Also fairly easy) | ||
| 5 | 5 | Bubble Bath | * | * | |
| 5 | 6 | Restoration in Progress | |||
| 5 | 7 | Where clouds are made | ~ | ||
| 5 | 8 | Antarctic Secret Base | * | * | X |
| 5 | 9 | Optical Fibre Land | * | * | X |
| 5 | 10 | The Giant's Leap | * | * | |
| 6 | 1 | Unclimb That Cliff! | ~ | * | |
| 6 | 2 | Lemming Storage Facility | ~ | * | |
| 6 | 3 | Mystery Machine | * | ~ | * |
| 6 | 4 | Balancing Act | |||
| 6 | 5 | Ancient Clockwork | * | ||
| 6 | 6 | Radioactive Lemming | ~ | ||
| 6 | 7 | Lem.avi | * | X | |
| 6 | 8 | Just Over the Hill | * | * | |
| 6 | 9 | Emerald City | * | * | |
| 6 | 10 | Bring it Together! | * | * | X |
| 7 | 1 | Lemmings Are Not Big Trucks | ~ | ~ | |
| 7 | 2 | Getting stuck in a cave | ~ | * | |
| 7 | 3 | Crossover | ~ | ~ | * |
| 7 | 4 | Now use Miners and Builders | ~ | * | |
| 7 | 5 | HELP | ~ | * | |
| 7 | 6 | GLITCHSPACE | * | * | * (Though only for appearance) |
| 7 | 7 | Blocked Bridge | * | ~ | * |
| 7 | 8 | Industrial Park | * | * | * (My favourite level I have made) |
| 7 | 9 | Four Quarters | ~ | * | |
| 7 | 10 | A DINOSAUR BLOCKS THE WAY | * | ~ | * |
. I'm aiming to make my next pack glitch-free and hard-timing-free though
Post by: Minim on April 29, 2013, 05:40:06 PM
I've tested all my Lemmix levels in Lemmini. Here are the results!
Wow!
I can't believe that there are so many of your levels that won't work on Lemmini. The mechanics must be quite different.I've noticed for the splat height problem that you can actually modify it if you put these levels in a Lemmini level pack. The default maximum fall height is 126 pixels (because the resolution is doubled), and that can be changed to about 128 to fix some of these problems.
Post by: mobius on April 29, 2013, 10:12:31 PM
Quote
Akseli:
Alright, level lists then: I would add Steve's levels list at least 3-9 (With left exit removed! ),
Quote
sorry if I’m being dumb but, is this a joke or is there seriously a way to solve this level (The Shaft part 1) without finding the hidden exit?
and THANK YOU for locating that Top 3 levels topic. I’d been looking for it, I knew there was something like it but couldn’t find.
Gronkling: in Acient Clockwork; the steel areas are too far to the right, so that they don’t cover the steel. Is this intentional?
Clam: would it be alright to add time to levels that require it, that you say are having time issues? (unless of course it breaks the level…)
----------------
I looked through (just a portion) of the database now and I’m finding a ton of good beginner levels actually, by different people, so that’s good.
thank you Akseli very much, again, for rating the difficulty of the packs in the database. that helps this process out a lot!
and I’ll definitely take a look at your levels minimac.
does anybody know where I can find this level finlay posted a picture of: It's not in his pack on the database
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=563.msg11839#msg11839
[oddly enough, I remember actually playing this level yet I lost it...
]
Post by: Akseli on April 30, 2013, 03:22:08 PM
Quote
Exactly. I solved that level even without using the direct drop, and Steve said that he didn't know that it's possible (and that's why probably he never checked the right exit trigger area, which is misplaced). After that I heard that the intended solution is much more boring. :b I find that an excellent, difficult level if there wouldn't be the left exit! Though the execution of the solution perhaps could be harder in Lemmini.
I've told Gronkling about desctructible steel in Ancient Clockwork, and imo that's a mistake? But fortunately it didn't affect the level in any bad way I could find. Though of course destructible steel issues should always be fixed.
And Gronkling, I'll highlight that some of your best levels are in packs 3 and 4, we shouldn't forget those either, although there is backroute fixing to some extent. Also, I like a lot 5-5 and 6-6, but they are tricky to execute, so I didn't include them in my original list yet, but they are definitely worth of considering.Nice to hear that my database ratings benefit people! : )
I haven't played finlay's that level, never found it from anywhere.
I could also look through minimac's levels, I remember at least 3-3: Use the grey matter for this being quite a nice level. There actually were also few levels in your 15 packs which I haven't solved yet, I should try them again.
It's been a year when I played Clam's packs (lots of levels there also I haven't solved yet, especially in the marvellous 04
), but my favourites of those (O marked levels in Clam's list) are FALL AND DIE, RABBIX, Crevasse, Nothing to Lose, Lem Squared and Circus Lemmings in Training.About my levels, Crysilis is not suitable for this pack, but you can use Feel the Pressure if you want (fixing the death fall issue!).
Post by: mobius on May 01, 2013, 03:14:17 AM
I second the nomination for Use your grey matter. Really nice level minimac! Wasn’t too hard but definitely required some thought. So far I have quite a few of your levels nominated and I’m not finished looking at them.
I'm really tired right now so there'll be more info later.
Post by: geoo on May 01, 2013, 08:08:52 AM
As for Steve's levels, I didn't include 10-7 as I wasn't entirely sure whether the behaviour works in Lemmini (though it probably does), and 10-4 I find a bit tricky to execute, especially with Lemmini lacking savestates it might get a bit annoying (then again, there are other levels where the execution difficulty is comparable). But well, with ISteve10, all levels are worthy to be included really.
Yeah, ISteve08 has excellent levels, I just don't remember many things.
Post by: Clam on May 01, 2013, 10:12:31 AM
Clam's list looks little depressing for example, almost half of the levels won't work at all in Lemmini, although they're some of the best ones for Lemmix. But, it's definitely interesting to find out which levels are workable in both Lemmix and Lemmini, and then try to collect the nicest of them together! : )
It looks kinda bad the way I put it, but remember that many only need quick fixes. As long as the main trick in a level works, I can fix it up to work in Lemmini. I should go back and add a third category for fixable levels. And thanks for the pointer to the Xmas tileset, I'll test those levels soon, as well as CSTame (aka. Tame Challenges) and my contest level.
And yes, add time, add lots of time!
Maybe a few levels are marginally better off with some time pressure. But they shouldn't be like that anyway. Time limits suck!
Post by: mobius on May 02, 2013, 09:51:47 PM
there will be too finished packs; one for Lemmix and one for Lemmini. The only differences will be:
1. any minor changes needed for mechanics.
2. The bonus stage will be mostly different for each version, since most of those levels will depend on mechanics or glitches specific to the engine. I’m limiting mechanic specific levels to this rating. (example: Clam’s: About Face or Gronkling’s: A Dinosaur Blocks the Way)
I Don’t know yet how many ratings there will be, this must wait until I see how many levels end up getting nominated. Please note: You can nominate a level that somebody else already did, and please do so if you like that level. Levels with more than one nomination will have a better chance of making it in the pack.
Geoo: I realize you didn’t nominate this level but I’m just curious; why can’t I view “Through the Thicket” no matter what style I choose. (I can’t view Supplex tricks either)
I like geooPkG. The solutions are supposed to be easy to see, yet it’s rating 4 stars
After a quick look, I can’t see what the glitch is. Is it one that’s familiar to most? (this can’t be the work in progress 2nd pack your were referring to, right?)Post by: Akseli on May 05, 2013, 02:10:08 AM
I didn't include glitch levels or those which need lots of pixel precision. Also, I found it hard to choose from levels/packs which felt very backroutable, and I didn't have slightest ideas of what are the intended solutions. For example, Yawg's levels felt like this, though they were pretty enjoyable. :I
BulletRide: 1-9, 2-2, 2-9, 3-4, 4-6
Crane's GARJEN09: 5, 8, 9 (from the Garjen site)
Dodochacalo's Cachapack 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 (or all ten levels if there wouldn't be backroutes, this is most likely the very best 10-level pack I've ever played.) and Dodopack 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8
Ellischant's Eymerich02 levels 4 & 10 and E3Levelpack_F level 4
finlay's finpack01: level 3
Insane Steve: 1-8, 2-2, 3-1, 3-4, 4-2, 4-3, 6-8, 7-3, 9-1, 9-6, 10-4, 10-7, 10-8 (and those which I mentioned earlier. Looks like I have pretty much same choices than geoo had.)
JHIsan1's Consta level 1 and JHIsan1 level 8
Martin Zurlinden's MazuLems: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 14, 22, 26, 29 (This is another pack from which even more levels could be chosen. Notice to take this from its site, because the camanis site has an older version, for example.)
MikauSchekzen's pack: Spicy11, Spitfire5, -7, -11
minimac: 1-5, 3-3, 4-4, 6-8, 8-7, 14-6, 15-3, 15-4
Nortaneous' nortpack01: level 9
weirdybeardy: 3-3, 3-8, 4-3
Yawg: 4-2, 4-3, 5-6
Oh, this list looks quite complicated.
Let me know if you can't understand something. I took a rather quick look at these, I might add more levels later! Make sure that you check out those levels from the most updated packs, most of those are in the Lemmings Level Database.Geoo: I realize you didn’t nominate this level but I’m just curious; why can’t I view “Through the Thicket” no matter what style I choose. (I can’t view Supplex tricks either)
I like geooPkG. The solutions are supposed to be easy to see, yet it’s rating 4 stars
geoo hasn't answered in few days so if it doesn't matter: Read the levelpack descriptions in the database.
I've viewed Through the thicket and Supaplex Tricks... in CustLemm. geooPkG is definitely 5 stars difficult pack, even though the solutions are extraordinarily supposed to stand out. ;D At least for me, the glitch is one of the most unfamiliar ones. If you manage to beat the first level playing it "normally", you should encounter the glitch.Also geooPk2 was somewhere in Lemmix Level Pack Topic but the attachments seem to have disappeared?
Post by: geoo on May 05, 2013, 08:09:22 AM
You can view Through the Thicket and Supaplex Tricks in Lemmix if you edit the LemmixStyles.ini accordingly.
I think the lines you have to add to extend the Custom Lemmings style (the way they are in my file) are as follows:
Code: [Select]
[CustLemm_10]
GraphicSetClass=TBaseDosGraphicSet
BrickColor=4292923568
GraphicExtFile=vgaspec4.dat
GraphicFile=VGAGR6.DAT
GraphicSetArchive=CustLemm_Spec4.lga
GraphicSetId=10
GraphicSetIdExt=5
GraphicSetName=Spec4
MetaInfoFile=GROUND6O.DAT
[CustLemm_11]
GraphicSetClass=TBaseDosGraphicSet
BrickColor=4291854368
GraphicExtFile=vgaspecS.dat
GraphicFile=VGAGR0.DAT
GraphicSetArchive=CustLemm_SpecS.lga
GraphicSetId=11
GraphicSetIdExt=36
GraphicSetName=SpecS
MetaInfoFile=GROUND0O.DAT(With CustLemm it works natively.)Yeah, the G in geooPkG is for glitch, and as Akseli wrote you're supposed to stumble across that glitch in the first level trying to solve it normally. If you really want to know what it is without trying:
Quote
Blocker areas lingering (First used by ccx in Wicked 7 to improve the max saved record), and moving trigger and steel areas.All the following levels use variations of that glitch.
Post by: Clam on May 07, 2013, 09:22:22 AM
- Does Lemmini support the Xmas/Holiday terrain?http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=698.msg15546#msg15546
The link there uses a download manager called iLivid. I've read about this and it seems to be malware. Did anyone here actually download this?
And if anyone has the Christmas style for Lemmini, can you please provide a safe download?
Post by: Simon on May 07, 2013, 09:44:36 AM
-- Simon
Post by: Akseli on May 07, 2013, 10:33:17 AM
Attached the Christmas style for Lemmini.
Post by: mobius on May 09, 2013, 07:29:18 PM
Voting hasn’t begun yet, we’re still organizing the levels and taking care of backroutes and such.
You can also go down the list and rate levels by difficulty. 1=fun, 2=tricky/taxing, 3=mayhem, 4=above mayhem, 5=hardest.
If you’d like to nominate a level that is already on the list that you haven’t already, put a 1 in the blank nominations column.
Also, if you’d like to add a level to the list, do so and, if you can, fill out the information for it. Just put it at the end of the list.
In the notes column, there are notes about backroutes and issues. If there is a CHECK it means the level needs verification of being solvable, whether or not it uses glitches or odd behavior, and if it has backroutes. If you can answer any of these questions about said level, please fill in the information in that column of the level, overwrite the CHECK. If a level has no known backroutes, and doesn’t use a glitch, write GOOD in that column. ( you only have to do this for a "CHECK" level)
If you know the authors of the 2008 contest levels, please fill those in. And if I made mistake as far as spelling or anything like that, you can correct it. You don’t have to fill out the whole list, for example if you only address any issues with your own levels, that’s fine.
If anybody has any problems or questions about this, or how to use excel just ask.
[note: I'm not done looking for new levels myself, I realize some mentioned don't appear]
We have a clear lack of levels by Pieuw and Lacktardo, if anybody knows of some levels we can get from them that aren't from their big packs that would be great.
edit: I just saw/watched Lacktardo's replays of the 2010 contest, so I'll check those of the "check" list. Most are usable, and look really nice!
Post by: Akseli on May 10, 2013, 12:15:13 AM
Attached the modified list. I filled all the tilesets and locations, fixed mistakes and typos and added geoo's nomination to the end of the list (Steve's Preventative Maintenance), that one was missing. I didn't do anything else yet, but here's the fixed list! The biggest mistake was this: elfpak01 and its levels are made by -H0ru5-, not Ellischant. There still might be some minor mistakes, there are so many levels that I looked them through pretty quickly. möbius, the tileset of Hard to Port is marked as Snow, is this intentional?
Also, because the first ratings are supposed to step up faster by difficulty than in original Lemmings games, maybe 1 should mean Fun/Tricky, 2 Taxing, 3 Mayhem etc. We don't need as many easy levels as there are in official games.
Rock House and Patience is a Virtue were contest levels I don't know the authors, others I knew.
We have a clear lack of levels by Pieuw and Lacktardo, if anybody knows of some levels we can get from them that aren't from their big packs that would be great.
I'll handle the case of Lacktardo's levels, but there surely aren't many of them available.
About Pieuw's levels, it is the same thing as with namida's levels, all the best ones of those guys are in a megapack. So, it's just that either we decide to take some levels from those packs or we don't. But I find that there are enough levels without those perhaps, or what do you think? Pieuw's older pack, Lemmings2007, is suitable for picking levels for the starter rating though in my opinion!
I'll add more of my nominations later! If there are already ie. 2 nominations for a level, and I want to nominate it as well, I just put there number 3 and so on?
Now everybody mention if some of your favourites are still missing from the list!
Post by: mobius on May 10, 2013, 04:21:59 AM
möbius, the tileset of Hard to Port is marked as Snow, is this intentional?
yeah, I’m redoing that level in case it makes it into the pack, on account that we were lacking in snow levels.
Also, because the first ratings are supposed to step up faster by difficulty than in original Lemmings games, maybe 1 should mean Fun/Tricky, 2 Taxing, 3 Mayhem etc. We don't need as many easy levels as there are in official games.
okay, that sounds good. I'll try to rate accordingly.
I'll add more of my nominations later! If there are already ie. 2 nominations for a level, and I want to nominate it as well, I just put there number 3 and so on?
Now everybody mention if some of your favourites are still missing from the list!
yes, that's correct.
yeah, Pieuw’s older pack; I looked through it and got some early, fun levels.
also, geoo just reminded me of shvegait and Conway’s levels which are worth looking at. Timballisto and Siergiej also have a few. I'm being very selective now, since we already have way too many. I've also been making some edits, notably removing levels I've "considered" but not nominated (levels which nobody else nominated)
If anyone has levels they'd like to nominate from anybody, especially those we haven't mentioned or mentioned little, like Shvegait, please do so.
I've updated the list with some more authors.
EDIT: I've updated again: see second attachment. I kept the old one for backup.
Anything highlighted in orange is a level with an issue. A level in white has no issues and is ready for voting!
Post by: mobius on May 14, 2013, 12:31:02 AM
-I looked through all of Conway's 13 levelsets.
-I looked at videos of some levels (like Ellischents and noted where videos exist)
what's left to do:
-fix backroutes
-fix issues with compatibility.
-rate difficulty.
-Look at Shvegait, Fernito, Seirgeij levelsets. I'm not real confident at getting this last point done alone. Most of their levels are pretty difficult and would take me a long time to solve.
List is still being updated and new nominations are being taken into account. Also some nominations may be removed (nominations I may have made prior to testing)
thanks for all the help.
-To anyone who downloads the list and is willing/has time. Rate as many levels as you want/can by difficulty. The rating is a 1(easy) - 5(hard) , you can use decimals if you feel necessary and this would help it be more accurate.
Post by: Akseli on May 17, 2013, 12:18:20 AM
Some more levels I'd like to nominate (that aren't in the list):Clam Spammer - Times four (circular clicking) [2-4], Flotilla (4-1)
Conway - 5...4...3...2...1...Uh-Oh! (BOP!) [2-7]
Dodochacalo - Perfect Harmony (Contest 2010)
Ellischant - Clockwork Pink (1-10), That Freezing Feeling (3-4)
Fernito - Clonic Inferno (6), Dilemma (8 )
hubbart - Lempire state building (6-5)
Lacktardo - Minor Miners (Contest 2010)
möbius - Exit, Stage Right, The Lemming with the Golden Gun
Shvegait - Impasse (1-3), There's one small problem... (2-5)
Wade Henricksen - Please Save Us! (the 2nd level from this pack: http://darktreemedia.com/lemmings/)
I'd like to give my nomination also for the following levels, which are already in the list (and I haven't yet nominated myself):
DragonsLover - Easy when you know how ! (4-10)
geoo - About to Break (2-1), Recurrent Sacrifice (2-2), One Step Off (2-4)
Pieuw - Have Skills, Will Travel (Contest 2010)
tseug - The Gr8 Escape (5)
I've solved all the levels from the CommunityLevelList3 except the following ones (so I can't confirm them to be solvable, and I probably can't nominate/vote for them
):Clam Spammer - Builder's Cracks (4-4), Training Zone Alpha (4-7), From the Brink (4-9), Fill the floor (5-8)
Conway - Out of the Frying Pan... (13-6), Can't find any gaps (13-8) [Where I can get this levelpack?]
Finlay - It's a long way up
geoo - Down the Cliff (0-4), The way up (1-4), Just As you'd Expect (2-3)
Gronkling - A DINOSAUR BLOCKS THE WAY (7-10)
-H0ru5- - Fortress 13 (1-10)
Insane Steve - Bad Maniacs
Sever - Justice From Liberation (4-10)
So those who have beated these levels could judge better than me if they are great.
Also there are other levels which I think to be awesome but I haven't solved them. For example, Clam Spammer's The Floodgates Open (4-10) has always amazed me, so does anybody know if this suits well in this compilation pack?
Does it require glitches or is it annoying to pull off? Or is it just absolutely spectacular?
Post by: mobius on May 20, 2013, 01:59:19 AM
here are the current nominations for tutorial levels:
Tell me which ones you’d like to see as the tutorials. These will be the first levels in the first rating. if you have other nominations please post them.
==============
PRACTICE: FLOATERS; DragonsLover 7-? (floating)
Born a blocker die a blocker; minimac 14-4 (blocking and climbing)
the right click helps here; minimac 14-3 (building)
All bashed up and ready to go!; minimac 5-1 (bashers and climbers)
A job for Miners; Pieuw 2007 peaceful (mining and bashing) [I don't recall seeing Pieuw use this one in his latest pack]
Lemming Cathodes; Crane 0-3 (digging)
Turnabout Disaster; Mikau mild-? (bombing)
Play Bridge; ClamSpammer 5-3 (building and bashing)
The Endless steps; Clam Spammer 5-5 (bombing)
Death Valley; weirdy beardy 1-8 (mining)
Masterplan; weirdy beardy 1-? (blocking)
Just the trick; weirdy beardy 1-6 (bombing)
=============
I'm thinking the rest of the first rating will be comprised mostly of levels which are a little harder but sort of like tutorials (for example a level to teach you how to make a builder wall or to undermine).
Post by: Proxima on May 20, 2013, 05:56:14 AM
Born a blocker die a blocker; minimac 14-4 (blocking and climbing)
Is that a remake of the PS level of the same name? Those shouldn't be eligible for this IMO.
I'm not sure why it's necessary for the first levels to concentrate on one or two skills, but it's not a bad idea. Just don't call them "tutorials", as some of those would be much too hard for players who'd never seen the skills before
You didn't respond to my earlier post, so are you not considering my levels any more? I seem to remember, way back on the old forums, ccexplore already remade Rhapsody in Blue for Lemmix... no idea if anyone still has it.
Post by: Minim on May 20, 2013, 06:04:30 AM
Post by: mobius on May 20, 2013, 10:55:50 PM
Born a blocker die a blocker; minimac 14-4 (blocking and climbing)
Is that a remake of the PS level of the same name? Those shouldn't be eligible for this IMO.
I'm not sure why it's necessary for the first levels to concentrate on one or two skills, but it's not a bad idea. Just don't call them "tutorials", as some of those would be much too hard for players who'd never seen the skills before
You didn't respond to my earlier post, so are you not considering my levels any more? I seem to remember, way back on the old forums, ccexplore already remade Rhapsody in Blue for Lemmix... no idea if anyone still has it.
oh darn, thanks for letting me know. Yeah, I never got around to playing the PSP levels, far too busy.
----------
I'm afraid I've been too busy to take a look at Cheapo. I'll ask ccexplore about that level though. In your previous post, did you mean, you'll take a look, or I can take a look. Could you possibly send me a folder with some of your levels (I have cheapo now, but Idk if I'll be able to remake them in Lemmix very well, I could try anyway)
I'd be especially happy if you have some good snow, bubble or dirt levels as we're short on those.
the tally is: (approximately)
45 marble levels, 41 pillar, 34 brick, 26 fire, 18 rock, 16 dirt, 13 bubble, 10 snow
-------------
I haven't totally made up my mind yet as far as what I want the beginning of fun rating to be like. I have three options so far that I'd like some feedback on;
1. Use the available tutorial-like levels
2. Forget tutorial levels and start with regular easy levels
3. Make our own brand new tutorial levels.
Post by: Gronkling on May 21, 2013, 05:25:40 PM
Post by: mobius on May 22, 2013, 01:45:25 AM
It's worth a mention though, thanks
Post by: Akseli on May 23, 2013, 12:25:09 AM
I've also become suspicious about remakes of official levels, which have only different level stats or skillsets, but use the same terrain.I haven't totally made up my mind yet as far as what I want the beginning of fun rating to be like. I have three options so far that I'd like some feedback on;
1. Use the available tutorial-like levels
2. Forget tutorial levels and start with regular easy levels
3. Make our own brand new tutorial levels.
No for the option 3!
That was one of the principles when making this compilation pack that we should use only already existing levels. Both the options 1 and 2 are ok, or the result could be something between those. I searched again for some nice easy levels, and yeah it definitely isn't too easy task. Anyway, here are some choices for levels for the first rating:Clam Spammer: A step too far? (5-1), MORE WEE CREATURES! (5-2), Play Bridge [5-3] (And other levels from the same pack, but they might go to the second/later ratings)
Conway: Snow'din (5-2)
Crane: 3W - (4-9)
Dullstar: Attack of the Killer Toddlers (epic01 level 1), The Ice Palace (level 4)
hubbart: Bunker hill (2-3), Not as easy as it looks (4-8), Asian holiday (6-3)
Joemon: Be precise! (1-9), Boom Boom Pow (4-6)
MikauSchekzen: Balls No (Mild5), Turnabout Disaster (Mild9), I’ve Had Worse (Mild12), Overjoyed (Spicy10), One Way or Another (Spicy12), A Cold Day in Heck (Spitfire11), Karoshi Factory (Spitfire13)
minimac: The New way out (2-2), Upsidedown Islands (4-2), The Strangest Dream (4-10)
möbius: So Close Yet So Far Away
Pieuw: Oscillating Lemmings (Lemmings2007 level 2), Traffic Policemen are Coming ! (level 3), Rising to Paradise (6), A job for Miners (9), Follow the Arrow (11), Work hard and Die (29)
weirdybeardy: Masterplan (1-3), Just the Trick (1-6), Out on a Lem (2-2), Lemesis (2-3), It’ll Never Work (2-5)
Again, some other levels I'd like to nominate:
BulletRide: Almost Easy (3-2), The Silent Circus (3-3), Pyramid Puzzle (4-9)
Clam Spammer: The Dying Seconds (3-10)
Conway: Out of the frying pan . . . (13-6)
Fleech: Four Lemmings and A Funeral
Shvegait: Pipe Dream (3-9)
Siergiej: A long way up (1-10)
weirdybeardy: Think Again (2-6)
Yawg: Mass Lemmicide (6-8)
Post by: mobius on May 23, 2013, 10:34:04 PM
This will make room for more of the original nominations anyway.
anyway some nominations of my own; (mostly levels for the first rating)
DragonsLover; 0-0 Only Practice, 0-5 In the Cavern… 6-3 “1 and 2” (this has a backroute) 8-7 The Puzzle!
Mikau 11; Share the Love
minimac; Under the Fire, Life in the third Dimension,
Pieuw; Deep Forest
...there's more but most of them are in the list.
as a random note, I just noticed all of our nominations for Yawg’s levels are all brick levels.
And, I’d like to nominate one level for the bonus rating (unless you already have too many);
The Joke’s on you! by I.S. [may not work in Lemmini or at least be much harder]
Post by: Proxima on May 24, 2013, 09:41:04 PM
I'm afraid I've been too busy to take a look at Cheapo. I'll ask ccexplore about that level though. In your previous post, did you mean, you'll take a look, or I can take a look. Could you possibly send me a folder with some of your levels (I have cheapo now, but Idk if I'll be able to remake them in Lemmix very well, I could try anyway)
I'd be especially happy if you have some good snow, bubble or dirt levels as we're short on those.
I just meant that if you want to include my levels they would have to be remade anyway -- Cheapo levels are not compatible with Lemmix -- so you could look at the Lix versions and remake those rather than working directly from the Cheapo versions.
But, since you say you have Cheapo now, I've attached a selection of 20 levels. Some brief notes:
Behind Bars (marble) -- Check whether the intended solution saves 6 or 7 in Lemmix. It's 7 in Lix.
Changing of the Guards (bubble) -- My best bubble level.
Drop the Dead Lemming (fire) -- Remade in Lix as "Come on down to my place".
From the Other Side (pillar) -- The Lix version is a much better puzzle, but requires Lix-only skills.
Have a bash at it! (fire) -- Known backroutes. Not remade in Lix.
Just a Minute Part 4 (marble) -- Not remade in Lix due to similarity to "Too Far to Walk".
Just a Minute Part 5 (fire) -- Not remade in Lix due to lack of one-way wall.
Lemming Dilemma (marble) -- Remade in Lix as "Buridan's Lix". You may want to use the stats of the Lix version (4 builders, 3 diggers, save 9).
Lift us up where we belong (marble) -- Clone of "Just a Minute Part 4".
Rhapsody in Blue (crystal) -- My best level. (Your style tally doesn't mention crystal; do you have any?)
Social Climbing (dirt) -- Only dirt level in this selection. Known backroutes. Not remade in Lix.
The Lemming Tower of Pizza (pillar) -- Remade in Lix as "Dr Strangelix".
The Tag Team (brick) -- Not remade in Lix due to lack of one-way wall.
The Two Towers (brick) -- This level's clone, "Zorn's Lemming", was never finished due to its extreme difficulty of execution.
There's no place like home (crystal) -- Taller than 200px but only for decorative purposes.
This Way Up (fire) -- Clone of "Just a Minute Part 5".
Three Blind Mice (brick) -- Clone of "The Tag Team".
Too Close for Comfort (snow) -- Clone of "Vignette".
Up on the Roof (marble) -- Not one of my best efforts. Not remade in Lix.
Vignette (snow) -- My best snow level.
Post by: mobius on May 25, 2013, 12:25:40 AM
I’ll look through them soon, and post or maybe PM you with any specific questions.
EDIT: every time I try to open one of your levels it says missing style or corrupt level. I'm new to Cheapo so no idea how it works really. (I looked in my style folder and there appear to be plenty of styles including all the original ones...)
..Or, are there screenshots of the levels I could see? (the stats are still viewable in Cheapo)
(I can't open them in the editor either)
------------
In case I didn't make it clear; I’m not sure yet how many levels and or ratings there are and this is still open to discussion.
I decided to use a new rating system;
If you rating the difficulty of any levels; Use a numbering of 1-6. This way if we have at least 6 ratings (I’m sure we will) this will help. A 1 will go in the first rating, 2 the second etc... Use decimal places to gauge it farther. So when rating, consider which rating the level is going in. It’s alright if we have an uneven number of ratings, this is just to make it easier to order them up in the end. It doesn't have to be exact.
---------
I decided to make a new list completely from scratch because somebody messed with my computer again and now I can’t open the old file. Downloading a previous one from here won’t work either, I can’t open any excel file, it says; “transforming ‘something’ not available” I can’t remember, this happened to me before when I installed another Office program and it cleared up but I don’t remember how.
At least; this way I can fix the mistakes I made and organize it better. So I’ll upload the finished version sometime soon.
-----
also in case anybody's interested here are a few more of my favorite levels:
Insane Steve (that weren't mentioned): Mental Process, Herzeleid. I also sort of liked Catch-22 and Split Complimentaries even though they were sort of tedious. I don't think I'll be nominating these however except for Mental Process, I definitely like that one.
Clam: Fall and Die, Time Four, Hello Goodbye, Guns Blazing
Gronkling: Lemmington under construction, inside the Pyramid, Getting stuck in a cave (really hard!)
from the 2010 contest: The Aperture Science and The Galleon by Ellischant
Ball Pit and Lemdunk from Nortaneous
and lastly, It's a long way up by Finlay. I know some people here have solved this level. Please let us know if it uses a glitch. I don't think it does, but I should ask someone on IRC, but I keep forgetting.
Post by: Proxima on May 25, 2013, 10:33:40 AM
Post by: mobius on May 25, 2013, 08:54:54 PM
whatshuh@gmail.com
Post by: mobius on May 30, 2013, 01:01:46 AM
I have since solved a lot more levels and thus rated their difficulties. And forget my question about "It's a long way up".
Now that I've changed my mind ten times, I might as well change it again; I'm thinking about including lesson levels again. If you'd be willing to let a level of yours be modified for a lesson/tutorial like level let me know. (whether it's one we've already nominated regularly or not)
updated list attached.
Post by: Clam on May 30, 2013, 09:54:03 AM
. For whatever reason I'm not a fan of Lemmini. But clearly this thing is happening, so I'll take a proper look
Post by: mobius on May 31, 2013, 05:03:38 PM
(Use Lemmix)
You also want to play test them for quality, backroutes, difficulty, and compatibility with Lemmini? That’s great! Give us all the feedback you possibly can. A 1-6 rating of difficulty, fun-ness, and any issues you run into would be great.
These levels are all either unsolved or are known to have backroutes. Try to find as many solutions as you can. The person who finds the most solutions and/or backroutes wins the title of back-route champion and ten thousand U.S. dollars. I’d like to get as many solutions as we can so we can possibly agree upon an intended solution.
be sure to use spoiler tags if you want to talk about a level's solution
I included at least three levels with a hidden trap just to torment geoo. [not really it just happened that way]
“How to evacuate a goldmine” was from geoo’s archive and I don’t know who made this.
Post by: Proxima on May 31, 2013, 06:03:20 PM
Proxima: I'd like to remake the Lix version of "From the Other side" (I think) I can't remember if that's the right name. I'm thinking of one that looks similar but the solution is different; it's about undermining miners.
I expect you mean "It's a long, long way to fall". Please work from the Cheapo original as it has much better decorative terrain. (I'm sorry that I can't offer to remake it myself; I'm extremely busy with other projects and real life at the moment. I will help with remaking my levels when I get time, if the project is still ongoing.)
This level could be modified to make a floaters tutorial or a bashers+diggers tutorial.
Really, you don't like any others of my levels? I would have thought at least "Rhapsody in Blue", "Changing of the Guards", "Behind Bars" and "Vignette" would make the cut
Post by: Akseli on May 31, 2013, 09:43:05 PM
“Turn it around” had a mistake; 0% was required. I think Akseli told me it’s supposed to be 100% but I don’t remember how he knows that. This level isn’t on Yawg’s youtube channel.
“How to evacuate a goldmine” was from geoo’s archive and I don’t know who made this.
http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/ag1zfmxlbW1pbmdzLWRichALEglMZXZlbFBhY2sY3RMM/
"How to evacuate a goldmine" is Leviathan's level. It seems like I've studied well my level designing knowledge to some extent (?) :-D link: http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=6.msg5327#msg5327
Anyway, I had made replays of these levels earlier (except for Leviathan's level), so I can attach them already. Ellischant's "Life as a Worm" is the only level I haven't solved yet, that's a mysterious one.
Proxima: möbius already nominated 6 of your levels to the newest list. : ) I've recently played through most of Michael Preview 1 and 2 in cheapo, and "Vignette" is my absolute favourite so far of those I've solved. "Changing of the Guards" (a bubble level) has steel if I recall correctly. :B But of course your levels should have great chances to get to the compilation pack now when you even have yourself expressed interest in this project.
Post by: mobius on June 01, 2013, 03:04:27 AM
Anyway, I've found some levels I'd like to remake. At least Two of Insane Steve's; The Mon0lith and Tribute to Benny Hill. Of course the Lix versions is probably better, at least on Benny Hill. Unfortunately I never solved either. And a level by juanto, Lemming Massacre 2, was pretty cool.
One problem however is the size of the levels. Some are impossible or must be adjusted to fit into Lemmix or Lemmini.
I love the Mario themed levels, and I was particularly amused at the flogging.
attached; same folder as above, just as a reminder.
Proxima: I'd like to remake the Lix version of "From the Other side" (I think) I can't remember if that's the right name. I'm thinking of one that looks similar but the solution is different; it's about undermining miners.
I expect you mean "It's a long, long way to fall". Please work from the Cheapo original as it has much better decorative terrain. (I'm sorry that I can't offer to remake it myself; I'm extremely busy with other projects and real life at the moment. I will help with remaking my levels when I get time, if the project is still ongoing.)
This level could be modified to make a floaters tutorial or a bashers+diggers tutorial.
Really, you don't like any others of my levels? I would have thought at least "Rhapsody in Blue", "Changing of the Guards", "Behind Bars" and "Vignette" would make the cut
Yes, all those definitely I hope make it in, as well as Lemming Dilemma. At least Vignette, since snow levels are low. Btw to answer your earlier question ther are 26 crystal levels. The only one I'm not enthusiastic about is Behind Bars; partly because I never solved it, partly because it's marble.
I may have problems on Chaning of the Guards because there's no steel in bubble...
Post by: mobius on June 02, 2013, 07:58:51 PM
Backrouted Levels:
Patience Young Grasshopper, Yawg
Gyps Isles, -H0ru5-
Levels in question:
Bang! and the Lemming is Gone, weirdy beardy
Alas, Poor Lemming, weirdy beardy
Fiddlecode, weirdy beardy
Lemming Cemetery, Fernito
Levels remaining unsolved:
Life as a Worm, Ellischant
I may have found the intended solution to –H0ru5-‘s Gyps Isles. Unfortunately it’s so annoying to execute properly I gave up trying to get it perfect. I’ll either enter it modified a little, to remove the backroute of course, and make it not so pixel perfect, or discard it. I don’t really care for it the way it is currently. ‘Solution’ attached. Of course I still left one climber, and the floater use doesn’t really feel right either.
I decided only to try and remake one of those cheapo levels; Tribute To Benny Hill, though I still need to solve it or get the solution...
------------
Nominations will be closing in a few days. For real’s this time. If you miss the deadline, we actually have enough levels to consider making a second pack sometime in the future. That would be much later though probably, if it happens.
Almost all the levels on the list are solved and backroute free. After deciding on the final levels we will fix any issues with compatibility. We have more than enough easy levels now btw. Thanks to all those who nominated levels!
Post by: Akseli on June 03, 2013, 12:01:21 AM
I guess I didn't get "Gyps Isles" replay to work properly (only 92% were saved) but I think I see what you've tried to pursue. Did you notice that the revised version has two entrances?
I'm still confused how you know whether solutions are backroutes or not?
How did you decide which levels you "discarded" last time, and which can stay still?Post by: geoo on June 03, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
You can use Land of Linebreaks if you want.
Which of my levels from my first 2 packs did you plan on including now?
I know Down the Cliff works, The way Up can be easily adapted to work, Trading and Cooperating is a backroute mess though.
Post by: mobius on June 04, 2013, 03:17:23 AM
--if any levels on the list are remakes of some level from an official game please let me know--
Which of my levels from my first 2 packs did you plan on including now?
I know Down the Cliff works, The way Up can be easily adapted to work, Trading and Cooperating is a backroute mess though.
Everything you don’t need, Down the cliff and The Way Up. The rest are from geoo2; About to break, recurrent Sacrafice and One Step Off. Why does The Way Up need adapting? (I haven't solved it)
And possibly Stroke at Retirement Age...
One Step off is missing a steel area btw
You go it working correctly, as I said, I didn't save the requirement but it should be possible that way.
I guess I didn't get "Gyps Isles" replay to work properly (only 92% were saved) but I think I see what you've tried to pursue. Did you notice that the revised version has two entrances?
I'm still confused how you know whether solutions are backroutes or not?
Since itt's called Elfpack1 "revisited" I initially thought it wasn't backroute corrections but now, looking at it, I'm thinking it is... Maybe I'll have another look at these two levels by -H0ru5-
----------
I thought about adapting 'already in use levels' for tutorial levels for Fun use but there’s only a few really workable levels and we have a few really good original levels, and I thought it might be sort of odd to have just one or two repeats with original tutorial levels. Any thoughts?
Here are my opinions; (for FUN)
-Clam Spammer5: I like all of them except for Lem Squared, Works on so many levels and Fill the Floor. I’m likely to discard Play Bridge because of an excess of marble levels, plus there’s already levels like this, including another harder one by Clam.
-Conways; Snow ‘din is a great one, but might better go in tricky.
-Crane’s 3W is good but we already have plenty of bomber levels nominated, an excess of crystal levels and there’s at least one crystal level by Crane I nominate for FUN: 7-9 “Crystal Caves” It’s easy but not a simple, do-whatever level. The repeat ‘Diamon Mine’ (in 8 ) is a do-whatever level. I’m more in favor of Crystal Caves.
-Dullstar’s two levels there are good but I think a little tough for Fun, maybe late fun or tricky. Attack of Killer Toddlers is actually a little similar to Altitude Training but I like the Ice Palace.
-Hubbart’s are all good. Bunker Hill could go in tricky as well, as you already said.
-Joemon’s two are great. The only thing about Be Precise, however is those two little holes in the terrain that are kind of annoying (for both visual and execution reasons). I don’t know if this was intentional or not.
-Mikau’s are all great. My favorites are One way or another, A Cold Day in Heck, Balls no. Karoshi Factory is the only one that I think may be a bit too hard for fun.
-I like minimac’s Upsidedown islands. I like A New Way Out, but again might be better in tricky. I must admit I don’t really care for the Strangest dream. (I had nominated this level before but I changed my mind after finding more levels I liked better.
-I’m not particularly proud of So Close Yet So Far Away, I don’t really want to include this one. [Thank you for nominating some of my own, I didn't because I'm not good judge of my own work]
Pieuw’s are all great.
weirdy beardy’s It’ll Never Work I find much too difficult to execute for fun. Maybe tricky. Conway’s Change of Plan would better suit fun rating, although they are so similar it might be better to just go with one or the other.
I like Out on a Lem. I haven’t solved Lemesis and I find it sort of annoying. The other two are good but I feel like Pieuws tutorials are better than those.
------------
anybody else try to solve "Life as a Worm?"
Post by: geoo on June 05, 2013, 05:31:18 AM
Scrap 'Everything you don't need', bashers in lemmini for some reason jump over tiny gaps, and even though that is likely fixable, it looks like blockers don't turn bashers around for whatever reason.
Stroke at Retirement Age should definitely work in Lemmini idea-wise, though you'll likely have to tweak things a bit to get the timing right.
Attached, in case you're interested, is my Lemmix version of 'The Mon0lith', using vgaspec graphics. Again, I don't know whether Lemmini supports vgaspec, I guess you'll have to try and read up the documentation.
As for tutorial levels, I definitely think you shouldn't water down the harder levels by slapping a new skillset on them and putting them in the fun rating, there are enough unique good levels for the Fun rating.
Also I recommend to record a solution for every single level in the pack, as a foolproof way to ensure that you won't have unsolvable levels in the pack at the end.
Post by: mobius on June 06, 2013, 12:46:31 AM
I'm having a hard time with Excel.. somehow all my notes got out-of-place, so I spent an hour trying to find where they belonged and put them back in place, only to have them get messed up again.
I was going to get it ready for voting now but since this screwed everything up and I got very busy It'll have to wait.
Post by: mobius on June 09, 2013, 09:50:02 PM
There were 247 levels nominated. The goal here is 180. The 30 bonus levels will be taken care of separately, so for this voting, levels must not use any glitches or very odd behavior and work in both Lemmix and Lemmini. Some levels are missing, the tutorials as well as a few which have been realized to be broken in one version.
In the spreadsheet; in the last two columns you will see an “eliminate” and a “favorite” column. Mark your initial in the eliminate column of a level which you wouldn’t mind seeing go. Keep in mind this doesn’t necessarily mean it is a bad level, just one that isn’t appropriate for this set, or isn’t as good as others. Mark your initial in the favorite column of a level which you find particularly outstanding. A level which you don’t care either way, leave blank.
67 levels must ultimately be eliminated. But you do not have to absolutely mark that many.
You can also write any notes you’d like in the notes columns or a reason why you’re voting for that level. If a level of yours gets eliminated; remember all the levels were considered fun if they were nominated in the first place.
The main point of this voting is to distinguish good levels from great levels. "Great" doesn't necessarily mean ultra-difficult or ridiculously clever. Sometimes, it's all about the little things, too: design quality, the packaging of the familiar in an innovative way, and consideration of the player. If there are two or more levels which are very similar, we’d like to eliminate these as much as possible. Some of the most important things we are looking for are levels that are easy to moderately difficult to execute, satisfying to play, stand out as really cool or artistic. Levels that are unique, unusual or teach you a new trick.
There will be some very hard levels near the end of the pack, and I want there to be enough levels in the middle to “prepare” for these. Early on, in the fun and tricky ratings, we’d like levels that teach the player, in a good difficulty curve, most of the concepts necessary for the challenges ahead.
-IMPORTANT- please only vote on a level that you have played. If you’d like to play any level on the list, please ask and I’d be happy to upload it here for you so you don’t have to look for it yourself. [With the exception of the seven or so levels that still need to be remade]
Don’t worry about a level that has backroutes or problems, these are being taken care of and will continue to be taken care of after voting. All the levels that get eliminated will be “back-up” levels. That is; if a level that made it ends up not working for the set, one of these will be its replacement. So there’s still a chance that a level that gets voted out will make it in the set.
Thank you to everyone who nominated levels.
-------
geoo: I have no idea how to get that vgaspec file to work. I actually started to remake Mon0lith in normal mode, in pillar. I realize that the actual level is taller than Lemmix allows, will this be a major problem?
If Tribute to Benny Hill is popular, what terrain should it be remade in?
Post by: mobius on June 15, 2013, 05:38:18 PM
siergeij
Ben Conway
JHIsan
--------
We need to start thinking about naming the ratings, and maybe even a name for the whole pack, instead of “Lemmings community Pack” maybe there’s something more creative title we can come up with.
Revenge of the Lemmings, Return of the Lemmings, The Lemmings Strike Again… (just for ideas)
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=648.msg16581#msg16581
here are some ideas and likes of mine for the ratings: *my favorite
Hootenanny*
Brouhaha*
Balderdash
Ballyhoo*
degradation
conflagration
Zany
Frenzy*
Confounding
Painless
Picnic*
Casual
Killer
Dire
beastly*
heinous
flap-doodle*
formidable
Carnage*
Vicious
Oh no!
AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGG!!!*
End of the world
Calk Walk*
Post by: Proxima on June 15, 2013, 11:04:31 PM
Also, you may want to wait for geoo to make a final choice about ratings for the Lix community set (or badger him into making a final choice) so as to avoid duplication.Is there any chance you could post the list of nominated levels as a Word document?
Post by: mobius on June 16, 2013, 08:41:04 PM
Is there any chance you could post the list of nominated levels as a Word document?
Sure, I'll do that. I forgot to ask if anybody can't view Excel sheets.
Also I've been very busy this past week so didn't get much work done, but I will begin again this week. Quite a few levels already have been saved. I'm sorting them by author. I'm doing the Lemmini levels and Akseli is working on Lemmix.
I just remembered: Proxima, Vignette may not work properly in Lemmini, but may if the whole level is reversed (mirrored); would it be okay to do this? The Lemmix version can stay the same.
Quote
Lemmings can only pass through blockers at a different position going left verses right. (I believe it's easier walking left) This also answers a question Clam asked me a while ago about his level that I forgot to answer. See Dodochacalo's level "It's not a Magic trick" or something like that.
Post by: Akseli on June 16, 2013, 11:10:28 PM
QuoteLemmings can only pass through blockers at a different position going left verses right. (I believe it's easier walking left) This also answers a question Clam asked me a while ago about his level that I forgot to answer. See Dodochacalo's level "It's not a Magic trick" or something like that.
Quote
Clam's level Lem ramp scam? Also, I think you mean "It's Not an Illusion !" (DoveLems - Coward20) by Dodochacalo, where you assign blockers quickly after falling and you actually can screw up at the left edges of those steel platforms, because lemmings can pass through a blocker when they fall facing to the left! Möbius if possible, try to be more precise with those level indications, again I had to think quite a while which level you meant, for example :-D (the connection helped in this case) and I'd almost think that other people find it even harder trying to guess that level.
And does Proxima use Lemmini?
I see that quite a many people have downloaded the voting list, so has anyone voted yet?
I gave my votes already. Is there familiar levels for everyone? You can vote your own levels also!Funny words as rating name suggestions there, I haven't heard one third of those earlier.
Balderdash!
Post by: Proxima on June 17, 2013, 11:30:06 AM
I just remembered: Proxima, Vignette may not work properly in Lemmini, but may if the whole level is reversed (mirrored); would it be okay to do this?
Then the lemmings would start walking away from the exit. I guess you could add one extra builder....
Post by: mobius on June 17, 2013, 03:11:13 PM
[a small piece of steel that turns the lemming as soon as they leave the entrance. Can't be broken in Lemmini]
okay, here is the updated list with at least some of the levels that got missing there again. Ignore the levels highlighted in brown for now, those are levels I wanted to look at again, or levels I don't personally know the solutions to. Levels colored gold have issues like backroutes.
Also uploaded it as a document.
------------
I personally don't mind if there are duplicates in rating titles; but I guess I would prefer original titles so I'll try to come up with more original ones.
some more (added to the previous list):
Pain
Jaunty
Synergy
asinine
Trance
whimsey
Safari
Indiscipline
Rickrack
revenge
Odium
hobnob (yeah, I know some of these don't make any sense at all. I got these words out of an interior decoration book)
Hootenanny*
Brouhaha*
Balderdash
Ballyhoo*
degradation
conflagration
Zany
Frenzy*
Confounding
Painless
Picnic*
Casual
Killer
Dire
beastly*
heinous
flap-doodle*
formidable
Carnage*
Vicious
Oh no!
AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGG!!!*
End of the world
Calk Walk*
Post by: Proxima on June 18, 2013, 11:57:09 PM
Picnic
Whimsy
Pain
Odium
Frenzy
Carnage
That works for me
Post by: mobius on June 21, 2013, 07:34:10 PM
Picnic
Hootenanny/Jaunty
Flap-Doodle/Rick-Rack
Frenzy
Pain/ARRRRRGG/Brouhaha/Vicious
Carnage/Calk Walk (sarcastic) /ARRRRRGG/Pain
Bonus will be called Bonus
-----updated list-----
if you want to vote, create a new column with your name on it, then mark either KEEP OR ELIMINATE in a level or K or E.
Post by: Proxima on June 21, 2013, 07:59:11 PM
)I hate to be a spoilsport, but I don't like the silly names at all. None of them really suggest a particular level of difficulty.
Post by: mobius on June 21, 2013, 09:59:05 PM
I can't image most people liking the game if the difficulty is all over the place, and/or like ONML difficulty curve, fortunate I don't think this pack will end up like that. First of all it starts out harder then original lemmings, and there are a good amount of 'lesson levels' to put through the first and second rating (like It's a long long way to fall by Proxima)
I originally would've liked for this to be a game for people new to Lemmings to play, but let's face it; not a large number of people will play this pack, especially those totally new to Lemmings. Secondly we do not have a good assortment of very easy levels to choose from. So I'm satisfied with it being a level pack in a difficulty range after ONML. Beginning somewhere in Tricky and Ending somewhere way beyond ONML
When it's finished, I would of course recommend that everyone here try it out, either version. Most or all of the levels (including ones by people you may not be familiar with like JHIsan) are really amazing and fun to play! (as well as beautifully designed)
*********
note: If you download the latest list and if you want to vote, create a new column with your name on it, then mark either KEEP OR ELIMINATE in a level or K or E.
edit: I just thought of my favorite title for the last rating: Armageddon. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner.
-----------
some levels which are missing from the list:
The small Jail! by DragonsLover
In the Swamp… by DragonsLover
One Hot Minute by Ellischant
Post by: mobius on June 25, 2013, 11:22:46 PM
Discrepancies/issues/questions:
I’m getting really annoyed at the Lemmix limitations (like arrows being broken; not working for miners one way (still wondering why the Lemmini haters like it so much better)) causing good levels like Dodochacalo’s Law of the Jungle to be disqualified.
I intend to make a full scale game with ratings in the Lemmini version. I would like to do the same for Lemmix/DOS Lemmix player but;
1. Have no idea how, need help.
2. Doubting whether a good enough number of people are really interested in that, to bother doing it.
Gronkling; Good Reception—I really liked this level, and it is not difficult to execute. We don’t have a level like this one in the pack yet. Why don’t you like it?
geoo; Stroke At Retirement Age---while the solution is really neat and tough it’s just far too difficult to execute imo. Even after a few changes I made in both Lemmix and Lemmini it’s still extremely hard. So I’m probably removing it unless someone else is willing to fix it up (I would much appreciate it)
Clam: Floodgates Open, the glitch used is not critical to the level theme imo, so with your permission I’d like to make some small changes to fix this. Something also has to be done because climbers don’t climb out of the small holes but I think it can be easily fixed with not mucho of a noticeable change.
Ellischant if you're reading this; could you respond to my questions some times soon?
Is Life as a Worm compatible, and is Conveyor Bolt spelled correctly?
I’m easily ready to remove any of my own levels, if a better level would replace it.
If you have any suggestions for fixing my levels/making them look better to easier to execute please let me know.
Some of them currently need fixing.For the record once the pack is done and released, I am still willing to fix problems of course.
Post by: geoo on June 26, 2013, 01:10:58 AM
I might have a look at some of the levels in the list and give my input. You're aiming for 180 levels in total, right? Would be convenient to these levels in a batch somewhere, but I think I at least have most of the Lemmix ones.
You can scrap 'Stroke at Retirement Age' if you find it too hard to pull off (and undoubtably, it'll be harder in Lemmini than Lemmix due to the lack of savestates). Admittedly, even once you know all the tricks that make execution easier, you'll still need a couple of tries to pull it off. I'll try my best at making it easier to execute for the Lix remake, but some ideas just seem to be impossible to be implemented easily.
Miners not working in one direction is a pretty annoying issue (can you salvage the level by mirroring it?), but it's not the physics of Lemmix I prefer over Lemmini, both have severe flaws in this regard. It's the controls. Lemmix immediately responds to my will (usually via a keypress). In Lemmini however e.g. I have to nuke, wait, and click away a screen to restart a level (and you have to watch out that you don't do 'Restart Level' from the menu, as this doesn't allow Action Replay for no good reason); fast forward is so slow that restart + action replay is not a good substitute for savestates which Lemmini lacks, and also in general too slow, and a few other little things that are subtle but annoying. This whole waiting is really frustrating when you're used to something better that responds immediately to your will. I prefer keyboard driven controls over mouse driven for the same reason.
As for rating names, I'm not a fan of the overly silly names either.
Something like Frenzy, Carnage and Armageddon on the other hand seem really fitting, and fit together all being nouns.
Post by: mobius on June 26, 2013, 04:45:22 AM
maybe putting little markers of twigs or green moss in Stroke at Retirement Age will help?
Would be convenient to these levels in a batch somewhere, but I think I at least have most of the Lemmix ones.
what exactly do you mean by this? I am currently in the process of sorting all the levels into folders by author. I'm about half way done, I think.
another update, with some of the missing levels added. I wanted to try to keep voting anonymous (however unsuccessful) So if you want it anonymous just PM your votes.
Post by: Akseli on June 27, 2013, 08:25:55 PM
I’m getting really annoyed at the Lemmix limitations (like arrows being broken; not working for miners one wayYep, like we all know, mining oneway-wall to the right is probably the most incomprehensible authentic Lemmings game mechanic alongside steel glitches, but please stay calm möbius.
I can say that we have more Lemmix levels dropping to the Lemmix Bonus rating because they don't work in Lemmini (blockers don't turn fallers and bashers, diggers on air can't build etc.etc.etc.!) than Lemmini levels, which aren't making it to the standard ratings.(still wondering why the Lemmini haters like it so much better)That what geoo said. Also, at first we all have likely got used to authentic, original Lemmings game mechanics. I can imagine how someone playing Lemmini for the first time is confused with different blocker behaviour, builder's turnaround trigger areas etc.
Lemmings games today have all these luxurious features, including savestates and such, and if one's used to them, then it's of course hard to get along without them. Anybody remember playing Lemmings in DOS without any extra tools, loving those games fanatically?
I played not much over a year ago still CustLemm, and it was utterly cool. (Without EVEN fast forward or replay!) When I tried Lemmini, I felt so coddled with these two new features. Now I've played with Lemmix's quick restart, savestates etc. and I think I can't go back in CustLemm anymore. I don't even know if I'd play Lemmings in their authentic environment, in DOSBox for example, because I've got used to these new features. Lemmings playing has become more efficient, decreasing factors that consume time (like executing same things again inside a lemmings level), because we have utility such as replaying. So, it's just how everyone's used to play.Still, there are lots of people who still play mainly without FF or replaying, like our YouTube guy roundthewheel. And of course I totally understand those who like to play with these helpful features, mostly because they save time. A lot.
I personally love both Lemmix and Lemmini for the reasons stated here. So I think I'm pretty lenient in this case also. The only game engine I don't like is WinLem, it really doesn't have any strengths compared to the other engines, on the contrary it's hard to handle and crashes a lot.
(and you have to watch out that you don't do 'Restart Level' from the menu, as this doesn't allow Action Replay for no good reason);Btw, this is an issue which has confused me in an opposite way. For me, if I want to restart a level, I definitely don't want any replaying there to mess things up. This was an issue in Cheapo and Lix, when I first time restarted levels in those games, I was a bit annoyed and tried for a couple of minutes just to find a way to get rid of the replay mode. :b Imo it's most natural if there's "restart level" and "replay level" separately, I hadn't earlier even thought that they mean the same thing? That was a surprise for me.
I intend to make a full scale game with ratings in the Lemmini version. I would like to do the same for Lemmix/DOS Lemmix player but;I've played some bigger levelpacks (for Lemmings95) in namida's LemmixPlayer, because it supports both L1 and ONML graphics. The ini.file needs this change: LookForLVLfiles=1 Then the lvl-files labeled 0101, 0102 etc. behave as a full scale game. But namida's LemmixPlayer has its own rating names, and there are only 5 ratings for 30 levels, so the compilation pack won't fit there. :I No idea if anyone else has done anything like this.
1. Have no idea how, need help.
2. Doubting whether a good enough number of people are really interested in that, to bother doing it.
Executing solutions is also an interesting issue. These aforementioned helpful features in Lemmings games are nowadays making execution more and more trivial. Having savestates and such causes that making mistakes aren't fatal to the solution, and we might even get less concentrated on the tricky parts of the levels, because nothing bad can happen. Executing, like time limits and such, is also a part of the whole Lemmings game experience imo, and I totally agree with Proxima's opinion about this case here.
It's of course nice that we try to make levels as nice as possible to execute, and we as experienced Lemmings players likely think that the actual puzzles are probably the main thing in Lemmings. I'm fully comfortable with it. But the interesting part is, how pleasant to execute we are trying to get 180 levels? Can't there be a one single level which is annoying to pull of and if there is, how badly it destroys the whole playing experience?
Related to this issue, my opinion about tseug's "Oh No! Not Again":
Quote
I found it fun möbius that you voted for this level and seem to get annoyed because of execution of many easier levels. ;D In my opinion, all about this level is finding a ridiculous pixel perfect solution hidden in that terrain. It doesn't use tricks, it doesn't have a puzzle. I don't say it's a bad level, but I just were so amused about this execution thing, so I had to say this, but I wouldn't vote for it to the pack. Still, I somehow understand why some people might have some kind of a respect to this level, probably because it really seems impossible before you solve it.
All in all, my personal opinion: The more unique/beautiful/etc. a method/trick/solution is, the more I forgive its tricky execution.
About the rating names, I also don't like the silly ones. Like I said, I don't even know the meaning of most of those, and I'd think that others who aren't native English speakers, would prefer names which are even somewhat familiar.
Post by: Crane on June 30, 2013, 06:14:27 PM
Post by: mobius on June 30, 2013, 09:56:28 PM
It's designed for both Lemmix and Lemmini. I'd prefer levels that work in either and don't use glitches or really odd behavior.
Post by: Crane on July 01, 2013, 05:49:14 AM
As far as I know, none of my recent levels use glitches. There have been times where I've taken advantage of a Basher's partial stroke and mining against one-way arrows, but I won't suggest any of those.
Here are video replays of my two 2-minute levels (played in Lemmini) - I'll get proper replays later!
Build it up with iron and steel: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwfSly1XwKU
Faithful Friends: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkXYB32_oAk
EDIT: Wrong link on Faithful Friends!
Post by: mobius on July 01, 2013, 05:36:34 PM
Oh, and one more thing: would you consider altering your Level "Lemming Cathodes" slightly to make it good for a digger tutorial? As of know we have no digger tutorial level. Although, as this level is I don't think is too awfully hard as an early level, but it could be a little easier.
Post by: Crane on July 04, 2013, 04:39:58 AM
The backroute in Tier Drops was caused by an exploit regarding blockers cancelling out steel areas and one-way walls... nevertheless, I have addressed it by making the steel floor very thin in the area in question.
I'm having some doubts on my "Iron Curtain" level, because while I like its design, I feel that it may be a bit too heavy on walking bombers, even though you have quite a bit of leeway because they only blow up against walls, and they are climbers too. Still, we'll see... stand by.
Recommended Music for Lemmini:
Faithful Friends: Tim1
Build it up with iron and steel: Tim9 (London Bridge... the name of the level is actually a verse from that song!)
Post by: Crane on July 04, 2013, 04:59:19 AM
Hmmm... it seems I like 2 minutes as a time limit! All four of these levels have 2 minutes on the clock.
Recommended Music for Lemmini:
Floater's Round: Mountain
The Final Countdown: Tim10 (Forest Green)
Post by: Crane on July 04, 2013, 05:06:14 AM
I confess "Blast Furnace" holds a special place in my heart because I designed the level when I was only 7, back in 1993. Still, I'll let the community decide if it's worthy.
Recommended Music for Lemmini:
Blast Furnace: TenLemms
Blast Furnace (Part Two): Lemming2
Post by: Crane on July 04, 2013, 05:30:00 AM
NOTE: The steel areas on the floor of Tier Drops will have to be adjusted for Lemmini. The floor had to be a strange height so the exit and the trap would trigger properly.
Recommended Music for Lemmini:
Sharing a Climber? - Tim5
Tier Drops - Cancan
Post by: Crane on July 04, 2013, 05:41:00 AM
Regarding rating names, ones that came to mind:
Chaos (a kind of synonym to 'Mayhem' and 'Havoc')
Fiendish
Challenge (as opposed to 'Bonus'... the hardest of the hard)
Now to work on Lemming Cathodes... what do you need exactly, just a pure tutorial level with no danger? Just it's called Lemming Cathodes due to the electrode traps.
Recommended Music for Lemmini:
Iron Curtain - Awesome
Going Down . . . . . - Tim3
Post by: Crane on July 04, 2013, 05:15:36 PM
Post by: mobius on July 04, 2013, 11:21:26 PM
Unfortunately there is a backroute which doesn’t use the blocker. I think just adding steel on the top could fix this one. Alternatively, if you don't mind this backroute, it is still rather interesting. However, I have a level under nomination that uses a similar trick, however I'm not sure it will be included yet. Thank you for responding because I would never have known this was a backroute.
I’ve added these levels to the list. There is no guarantee they all will make it to the final pack, but a few in particular I personally like and think would go nicely. At least one of the Blast Furnaces will definitely make it. Which one would you prefer in case?
Some levels that other people have nominated earlier: Crystal Caves, Nemesis, Oil Refinery (this one can't be used because the only solution found by Akseli uses a Lemmix specific trick and is a little too precise for this pack), Prize Catch, 3W and Come Out to Play.
If Crystal Caves isn't good, could it's fun twin be used instead? Diamond Mine. We are still sort of lacking in easy levels.
also thanks for the music suggestion. I still need to learn how to do that (specify specific songs) but I will learn it from somebody. It’s not that hard to figure out actually, I think.
Post by: Crane on July 05, 2013, 09:25:54 AM
Oil Refinery does use a walk-through Blocker (it may be adapted for Lemmini by reducing the release rate slightly, I think) and very precise tool placement, so yeah, I can understand that it can't be used. Nemesis was a fun one to design!
I'll take a look at the Sharing a Climber solution (hooray for community testing), although I don't have access to my Lemmings files until Monday now - sorry.
Post by: mobius on July 05, 2013, 06:23:04 PM
I realized this would kind of spoil most of the level... I think we can just leave it as is, or reduce the number of lemmings and maybe the RR a little.
Post by: Crane on July 05, 2013, 07:56:44 PM
Looking at previous comments, I do prefer Crystal Caves over Diamond Mine... I'm not sure what your policy is in regards to repeat levels. Crystal Caves leaves little room for error with its 100% requirement, and you have to watch things carefully because the lemmings on the far right can easily walk into the water, along with a couple of fall hazards (and if I remember, you only have one Floater and five Builders).
I feel a bit cheeky making suggestions so late on, especially as there's an implication that the deadline passed last month. I do have one of two more levels to suggest after the weekend... JAILBREAK as a Lemmini-only Bonus level (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz4cRbJ-HMA), and a marble level called "Turn the other cheek".
I do have a handful of 20-of-everything levels, but the layouts make them more Tricky than Fun, or even Taxing (e.g. Printing Press, 0-10).
Post by: Crane on July 08, 2013, 03:37:01 PM
Give me a few more hours and I'll post up Oil Refinery's solution, Turn the other cheek and a Fun level you might like... "Eeny, meeny, miny... OH!". I'll take a look at Sharing a Climber? too, because I think I've found another backroute of my own.
Post by: Crane on July 09, 2013, 01:19:17 AM
Now, Lemming Cathodes... I've actually made it harder in a way, in that it's now very easy to walk into the Ghostbusters trap. However, you now only have to save 50%, so it's easy enough to botch it together haphazardly and complete it even with the time crunch (a nice introduction to minute levels). Nevertheless, if you want to aim for 100%, it's quite a challenge. Note, this should NOT be the first level of the game! How does it look and feel in your opinion?
"Lemming Cathodes" Music Suggestion: Lemming1 or Lemming3
Post by: Crane on July 09, 2013, 01:43:05 AM
- Does this solution to Oil Refinery use a Lemmix-specific trick?
- "Eeny, meeny, miny... OH!" is not your ordinary level... you have one lemming and you have to work out where to use the Builder.
Recommended music for Lemmini:
Oil Refinery - Tim6
Eeny, meeny, miny... OH! - Tim2
Post by: Burned on July 09, 2013, 02:53:31 AM
I hope it is still possible to nominate some levels. If I still can, then I feel that some levels from the VTM community should also make their way into this pack.
I would like to suggest another tutorial level: "Ready...Aim...DIG!!!" by Em (from emxxpak.DAT), as it uses miners and diggers. The only minor problem is that the steel is a tight squeeze on the very left, but that can be resolved very easily.
Jeffrey Lancaster also made a whole pack dedicated to tutorial levels in Jeffpack6.DAT. Maybe we can use the level "Training 09 - Let's Go!" as it makes the player apply their skills.
Here is the link for all the VTM files: http://www.camanis.net/lemmings/files/levelpacks/
There are other levels I would like to nominate, but I'll get back to you on those; I just need to make a list.
On another note, I would have loved to nominate one of my Cheapo levels, "Lots o' turning" from my third pack, as it makes the player use a lot of turner tricks with a limited number of skills, but I know that it won't work in Lemmini.
Post by: mobius on July 09, 2013, 03:41:23 AM
Don't worry about a level for the bonus rating being unfair; the whole bonus rating is supposed to be unfair
thanks for that link Ice_Eagle, we were already aware of it however, many of the levels being voted in are from there actually. Thanks for the suggestion of Jeffpack; I'm not sure if I looked at all of that particular one or not. There are so many levels I'd never have time to go through them all alone.
I'm still in the process of remaking the Cheapo levels btw. Actually I'm sort of waiting for LJLPM to get a working version of his program out so I can remake the levels in a few minutes as opposed to taking an hour as they would take with Lemmix.
Post by: Akseli on July 09, 2013, 02:46:46 PM
I want to again remind about collecting only already existing levels for this community compilation pack (or are we going to abandon this principle little by little?). Some of Crane's levels haven't been published yet, but yeah it's probably ok to take those which you've created already (=not just for this community pack), although you haven't released them anywhere. I'm probably also a bit worried that if/when you release your pack I've been anticipating, there would be so few new levels remaining (?). I'm just speculating, don't take this too seriously.
Do whatever you want, but hopefully this level collecting issue won't go totally out of control. :--D I'm also talking about modifying levels so much that they'll turn out to be whole new levels, which isn't probably the most ideal case in this project? My favourites indeed from GARJEN00-GARJEN09 packs were Faithful Friends, Nemesis and Oil Refinery (all from the latest pack
). I also liked a lot this Sharing a Climber and then Ball Bearing (3-3), which stumped me for a very long time, pretty clever! Crane, you also didn't response me when I sent you my backroutes for Faithful Friends a while ago, did you manage to watch them and probably fix the level?
Post by: Crane on July 09, 2013, 07:14:35 PM
I did see the backroutes for Faithful Friends and I hope I fixed them, but I don't know, I'm not a good designer or player overall.
Post by: mobius on July 09, 2013, 10:05:11 PM
Any levels that I modify will not be changed that much/ hardly at all, remember. I'm only mirroring the ones that need to be, and making small, barely discernible changes for compatibility issues.
thanx for mentioning Ball Bearing, will have to check it out.
You're a pretty darn good designer Crane, imo
Post by: Crane on July 09, 2013, 11:05:00 PM
Post by: Proxima on July 09, 2013, 11:18:40 PM
You're not expecting people to choose your levels, you're just suggesting them. I haven't played any of yours, but people are choosing them, so clearly they have some merit.
There's very little correlation between being a good designer and a good player. ccexplore is one of the best players, yet he barely designs at all (and when he does, he earns the Brickout Memorial Trophy
) I consider myself to be medium at both playing and designing -- but it's pretty significant that by far my best level, "You only get one bash at it", came about completely by accident through the process of solving one of möbius's levels. I couldn't design another level as good as that one if I tried for years. I don't feel I deserve any recognition for it, but it's still a damn good level.I'm sure yours are too
Post by: Crane on July 11, 2013, 01:03:40 AM
Suggested Music:
Ball Bearing - Tim8 (Dance of the Cygnets)
Blast Furnace - TenLemms
Blast Furnace (Part Two) - Lemming2
Build it up with iron and steel - Tim9 (London Bridge)
Come out to play - Tim4
Crystal Caves - I don't know what would be a good tune for this one actually! Maybe Lemming1 or Tim2?
Eeny, meeny, miny... OH! - Tim2
Faithful Friends - Tim1
Floater's Round - Mountain
Going Down . . . . . - Tim3
Iron Curtain - Awesome
Lemming Cathodes - Lemming1 or Lemming3
Nemesis - Tim8 (Dance of the Cygnets)
Oil Refinery - Tim6 (Dance of the Reed Flutes)
Prize Catch - Tim5 or Tim7 (Rondo Alla Turca)
Sharing a Climber? - Tim5
The Final Countdown - Tim10 (Forest Green / O Little Town)
Tier Drops - Cancan
I hope I didn't miss one.
And Akseli... I absolutely LOVE that solution of yours to Oil Refinery. Admittedly it won't work in Lemmini, but it's too good to pass up! I think my solution will still work in Lemmini, but yours is just so beautiful - I thought you were just going to build over the Blocker and use the Miner to break through the final wall... I never saw that coming!
EDIT: I missed not one, but two!
Post by: Crane on July 16, 2013, 07:06:07 PM
Post by: Akseli on July 18, 2013, 01:15:30 PM
The level lists which möbius has posted in this topic have columns where anyone can put their difficulty ratings for the nominated levels. Crane, you really don't need to worry about that you don't look at other's levels, so few does that currently at all. I don't know if other people than I and möbius, maybe geoo, have played these levels and could rate them by difficulty, or even nominate them for this pack. A few people, like Clam and Proxima, suggest their own levels, which is of course allowed and highly recommendable. I think the newest level lists can be downloaded from the fifth page of this topic if someone wants to give his/her input and rate or vote for levels. Möbius is probably currently ordering the levels and remaking cheapo levels, which takes time.
So Crane, please don't downfall yourself at all. It is very desired that people contribute to this project suggesting their levels. What does it matter if someone is not a very good player? I remember your self-esteem troubles during the level contest. Don't be that perfectionist, a lot less is more than enough. We don't demand anything that you couldn't offer.
Besides, you are one of the greatest Lemmings level designers in the world, why would we doubt that? Man, you are the guy who did the Garjen site. People have downloaded your packs not only hundreds, but thousands of times according to that site. You have thousands of views in your Lemmings videos in your YouTube channel. You just participated in a level design contest with other best designers of the world - and your level, Prize Catch, ended up being in the top half in both "most fun" and "best-looking" categories (ONLY Clam managed to do the same). I think my first ever 10-level custom pack I played was your GARJEN09, and I'm not sure if you also invented the whole "backroute" word or is it a rumor?
At least you were the guy who added it in the urban dictionary. Last September, when you joined this forum, I recognized your nickname immediately, and at least for me, just your presence gave even some more credibility for this place, which sometimes struggles with its activity.Anyway, I guess that möbius still accepts nominations and such. And yeah, this project is his idea, he can do whatever he wants, I was just reminding of the possibility that level gathering and fixing would go totally out of control (=neglecting a lot of the principles möbius originally wanted with this pack).
Möbius decides about everything in the end. I still have to check if some Lemmini levels would work in the Lemmix version with some modifications, some of these are pretty tricky to fix. :I
Post by: Crane on July 19, 2013, 04:37:32 PM
I am very much a perfectionist unfortunately - it is a character flaw of mine. Privately I might tell you the reasons behind it. Anyhow, let's take a look at that list on page 5... do we just modify it with our blessing or rejection and comments and put them here as attachments? Admittedly I may be answering "mmm" instead of "yay" or "nay" for levels that are okay, but probably not a first choice (e.g. my "Iron Curtain" level, while good looking, is a bit painful in Lemmix because it uses walking bombers quite heavily and is a bit more unforgiving compared to Lemmini).
Post by: mobius on July 19, 2013, 08:09:28 PM
I've already begun to order and save the levels. But you can still vote or just add some input if you want, Crane. Just keep in mind you've had to have played and solved a level to vote it in or out.
I uploaded another updated list you (or anybody else) can use. Just write your name in the top of the column that says "NAME" and write your thoughts and whatever in the rows of the levels.
You can either upload it or send it to me.If you want to rate difficulty, we're using a scale of 1-6. If you would like to play any level but don't have it handy, I can upload it for you. (As I now have many of the levels saved individually)
You might notice some of your recent nominations are not there, I didn't get time to add them yet.
you can also rename the spreadsheet file it doesn't matter.
---------
about Blast Furnace; that reminds me of my own level; Roundabout which I designed when I was less than 10 I think.
Post by: Crane on July 20, 2013, 02:42:43 AM
* = Fun, early Tricky
* * = Late Tricky
* * * = Taxing
* * * * = Mayhem
* * * * * = SUNSOFT
Maps fairly well though... I suppose "6" would be super-hard for the Bonus/Challenge set, right? Mind you, like with the foot ratings of DDR, they were downgraded over time as players overall got better!
Post by: Crane on July 20, 2013, 02:45:03 AM
Wow, some of the difficulty ratings on my levels are certainly lower than I expected! I think the only two of mine that are missing from the list are Iron Curtain and Ball Bearing. I'll get around to posting those and their solutions. Hmmm... what do I want to test? Can I take a look at BulletRide's levels (I don't have any of them on my system)?
EDIT: Here's Iron Curtain and Ball Bearing and their intended solutions. Ball Bearing has been modified slightly so the central column looks a bit less truncated - hopefully it doesn't hint too much at the solution. Going by Akseli's difficulty ratings, it's probably 2 or 3.
Oh, I'd like to change my recommended music on Ball Bearing to Lemmings1... it's not ominous enough to be Tim8!
To fill in the blanks on where my levels come from:
Eeny, meeny, miny... OH! - 5-10
Blast Furnace (part two) - 7-1
The Final Countdown - 6-10
Lemming Cathodes - 0-3
Build it up with iron and steel - 6-8
Floater's Round - 0-9
Going Down . . . . . - 9-7
Iron Curtain - 9-3
Ball Bearing - 3-3
Post by: Akseli on July 21, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
I marked "0" those levels which I hadn't solved yet, like your Tier Drops, because I've waited for it to be backroute-fixed perhaps.Möbius aimed for 6 difficulty ratings + Bonus rating
So, there'll be even harder rating after "SUNSOFT".Most of the listed levels can be found from the Lemmings Level Database, such as BulletRide's levels. Trying out his levels is a strong choice, because those are backroute tested properly by geoo a long time ago, so they will work pretty much like as they should.
Post by: geoo on July 22, 2013, 01:58:01 AM
I started rating levels at some point, but I haven't come far beyond BulletRide's levels. It takes me quite some time as it's been ages ago since I played many of them. I hope to get at least Clam's and Steve's done at some point.
As For BulletRide's levels, I don't know the intended solutions to Wing It (2-2) and Almost Easy (3-2). I remember one particular level not on the list, The Silent Circus, puzzling me a lot. At some points I found a very convoluted solution to it, and BulletRide said it was not intended. I'm not sure whether he ever told me the solution, but I remember this level in particular and I'm intrigued by it. Has anyone else solved it?
Post by: Akseli on July 22, 2013, 11:06:00 AM
Oh man, now I'm intrigued to find that. The Silent Circus was nominated for the community pack at first, but it doesn't work in Lemmini and goes now to Lemmix Bonus rating. Wing It and Almost Easy can't be found from his YouTube. I have replays for them if anyone needs. The former is a bit straightforward in my opinion (still being far from trivial), and the latter is tricky.
Post by: geoo on July 23, 2013, 05:24:42 AM
Jotun (I can't actually find "Wing It" it seems): My solution simply involves turning a miner with a blocker twice.
Almost Easy: there's a long route (around the bottom) and a short one.
3-10 (Bullet Ride) is a nice one too actually.
Post by: Akseli on July 25, 2013, 10:30:31 PM
I remember "BulletRide part 1 and 2" levels being puzzling, but then I found a solution which works in both of those.
Quote
A pixel perfect bomber can make a ramp for releasing lemmings from that holding area below the entrance (after digging there).
My clear personal favourite of BulletRide's levels is "Sun of Nothing" (3-4).
Post by: Crane on August 06, 2013, 12:49:47 AM
One comment I would make about my own level is that I might put "Iron Curtain" on a 'maybe' list, since on Lemmix, Bombers seem to be less forgiving than on Lemmini. And the same for 'Going Down . . . . .' too, since Bashers, ironically, seem to be less forgiving than on Lemmini due to the way the mesh is structured (and with the intended solution, I think there's a crash risk on Lemmini if you bash too high).
Oh, Tier Drops can be backrouted on Lemmini due to the different behaviour of Bombers on steel areas. Some of the floor below the one-way wall will have to be made non-steel.
Post by: namida on August 15, 2013, 10:36:16 AM
I'd suggest To The End!, Hellfire and No Time To Die (part 1, not part 2) for potential inclusion. Pipeline Problem as well, perhaps, for a slightly lower difficulty one.
EDIT: I found a working copy of the latest version of the project! w00t!
So here's a list of levels I feel are particularly good:
- "Up To Where They Go" (Mild 19) - this is quite an easy level, but it's very fun nonetheless, might be good for Fun-equivalent
- "You Just Lost The Game!" (Mild 30) - same as above, though this would be late-Fun, maybe even early Tricky
- "Russian Rescue" (Wimpy 12*) - This is a low-to-mid difficulty one, probably worthy of Tricky or even *very* early Taxing
- "Fallen" (Medi 6) - Mostly a simple puzzle, but the 100% requirement puts a bit of extra difficulty on it, maybe early-to-mid Taxing
- "As It Burns Away..." (Medi 21*) - Moderate-to-high difficulty, late Taxing-y
- "Lemmingsense" (Medi 29) - Another mid-to-late Taxing one
- "Backdraft" (Danger 3) - Not one of my personal favorites, but it seems to be quite a favorite among other players. Probably early Mayhem difficulty. (Note that this level relies a bit on precisely-placed bombers. LPDOS is modified so that bombers instantly OhNo when you assign them rather than count down; so this level could be quite annoying if you're using the older-style timed bombers.)
- "Alternative Logic" (Danger 6) - Simple but with a clever trick to it. Note that this level doesn't work properly in all versions of the game (varies between game and even between settings for DOS, won't work on Mac, works fine in Lemmix under *any* mechanics setting) due to the level being EXTREMELY precisely adjusted to the time limit.
- "Circular Wavelength" (Danger 15) - Another Mayhemish puzzle.
- "No Salvation IV" (Danger 20) - The earlier No Salvations are too easy, the later one too hard. This one offers a good challenge while still giving some room for variety.
- "Die the Death of the Damned" (Danger 22) - This one is very challenging to work out (but very simple to execute once you know how it's done). As far as I'm aware, only one level in both original and OhNo combined use the mechanic that's required here. Definitely at least late-Mayhem.
- "Pipeline Problem" (Danger 29) - This one's a bit easier than most of those around it, though don't let the simple look and 10-of-everything decieve you; it IS a fairly challenging level. Probably late-Taxing.
- "Variety Day" (Psycho 1) - A one-of-each-skill level! =D I've had mixed responses on how hard this one is, I'd say probably early-to-mid Mayhem.
- "Coalburner" (Psycho 9**) - This is one of those ones that can be quite tricky to work out, but once you know it, isn't that hard to pull off. I'd say late-Mayhem.
- "Three Birds With One Stone" (Psycho 11) - This is a level with several solutions, all of which are fairly difficult to find (some are hard to execute, others are quite easy). Late-Taxing or early-Mayhem.
- "Not gonna work." (Psycho 12) - Another level that looks simple but isn't. This is easily far harder than anything in Mayhem; it's debatable whether some of the ONML levels surpass it. It actually originally was an early-Medi level with a lower required % and had blockers; I thought "I wonder if I can save 100%" and after how much of a challenge that was, it didn't take me long to decide "I'm bumping this one up to Psycho and requiring 100%".
- "Return of the T" (Psycho 18) - Apart from being qutie challenging (definitely late-Mayhem if not harder), this level deserves to be nominated simply for being (in it's first incarnation, as a Cheapo level in Lemmings Plus 1) the first genuinely hard level I ever made - anything before that was a matter of "easy to work out, hard to execute", if hard at all.
- "No Time To Die" (Psycho 20) - A fun and quick level. Can seem like an annoyingly-tight-on-time level at first, but once you work out what you should be doing, there's actually a suprising amount of time to spare - not huge amounts, but a good 10-15 seconds or so. Nonetheless, it's definitely post-Mayhem.
- "To The End!" (Psycho 28) - Probably the hardest level in LP DOS, and at any rate it seems to be one of the favorites of mine among most people who've played it. It starts with the pretty common "make a fairly easy, and long but still fairly fun level with 20 of each skill". It then slaps a 100% requirement on that (out of 30 lemmings, so not everyone can climb/float) - not a huge deal. It then applies a twist that wasn't so common in the PC version, but fairly common in the SMS version - instead of 20 of *every* skill, you have 20 of most skills but there's one you have none of. And then comes the catch - instead of something only moderately useful like floaters, the skill you're missing is builders. In a level full of large drops, edges you need to turn around at (and remember, it's 100%, so blockers won't do much for you), and so on. Good freakin' luck. =P Difficulty? I'd say this level is well harder than anything found in even ONML.
- "Hellfire!" (Psycho 30) - Well, with the unfortunate placement just a couple of levels behind To The End, this level doesn't seem quite as hard as it actually is. It's a pretty fun and challenging level, I'd say it's post-Mayhem though not even close to TTE's difficulty.
* "Russian Rescue" and "As It Burns Away..." were new additions to Version 7, older versions had "Life, the Universe and Everything" and "Ghostly Hall" in these positions instead. (Four other levels were also replaced - Medi 8, Medi 16, Danger 21 and Psycho 27, but none of these other replacements are, IMO, worth nominating. Of course, if other people feel differently, I'm happy for almost any level in this pack to be included.)
** "Coalburner" had some minor modifications - that resulted in an ENTIRELY new solution - as of Version 5. Obviously, I'm nominating the new version (though the old version was pretty fun in itself).
If you want to include any of these, let me know and I'll see what I can do about extracting them from the compiled player. (It *is* possible, I just have to remember *how*.)
I would've liked to nominate Death Row as well, but unfortunately, that level's freaking cursed... no matter what fixes I apply to it, either backroutes don't truly end up fixed, or new ones pop up. Therefore, I don't really think it's fit for inclusion (and as such, I'd rather you didn't include that one - any *other* level is fine to include). At any rate I've long since given up on that one (and plus, V7 is the absolute final version of LPDOS).
Post by: mobius on September 11, 2013, 02:50:42 AM
However, I’m unhappy with how the pack is turning out and I’m going to change some of the plans and rules I initially laid out.
Even so, I still thank everybody involved and your participation and work will not go to waste at all.
Thanks to everyone who helped by giving me information and playing levels. It was much appreciated really. I discovered tons of wonderful levels and designers through this.
And of course thanks to everyone who created the levels.
The Lemmini version will be finished first. Then I will work on the Lemmix version.
Post by: mobius on September 20, 2013, 09:18:57 PM
We need to come up with ideas for the name of this pack. Should it just be "The Community Pack" or something more flashy like:
Return of the Lemmings
Revenge of the Lemmings
Curse of the Lemmings
The Lemmings Strike Again
Post by: mobius on September 28, 2013, 05:18:47 PM
Post by: mobius on October 04, 2013, 11:14:21 PM
Just to reiterate; there will be approximately 200 levels; with 7 ratings. It will be a complete Lemmini game, so you will able to download the file, and play it similar to Dovelems. I will make a separate topic to upload the release in. Discussion of the levels after it's release should go there. Even though me and Akseli went through all of them and the other people that helped with their own levels; there will undoubtedly be issues found after the release, it's the way it is.
----------
There are enough good levels to make a second level pack after this is over, as I already mentioned but the pack will be very different. I'm not even sure if I want to use Lemmini for it, since there's a good number of levels that are incompatible with it. And I may allow anybody to create NEW levels for it.
Post by: Crane on October 12, 2013, 09:46:51 PM
I can't think of a good name for the pack as a whole yet, but definitely something that reflects the community nature of it... "coalition" or something.
Have the names of the ratings been decided yet? (200 levels, 7 ratings... 30 levels per rating, but 20 on the last?). I thought about names like "Fiendish", "Chaos" (a synonym for "Mayhem" and "Havoc"), "Master" and "Challenge" perhaps.
Post by: mobius on October 13, 2013, 01:43:05 AM
Coalition sounds interesting... So far I've been calling it Revenge of the Lemmings (in a similar vain to "oh no more Lemmings") but I'm open to suggestion.
The names of the ratings are: Picnic, Hootenanny, Frenzy, Pain, Carnage, Armageddon, Bonus
Bonus has 22 levels currently but it's likely to be 21.
Post by: grams88 on October 17, 2013, 10:26:46 PM
Lemming Hell Awaits
Breaking Lemmings (Instead of breaking bad which is a really good TV show)
Lemmings on the rise
Post by: mobius on October 17, 2013, 11:39:45 PM
However, since I'm planning on making the second pack more beginner friendly, this title may be more appropriate for that. or not...thanks for offering ideas.
Post by: Eymerich on October 23, 2013, 09:49:35 PM
I can't find One Hot Minute, though.
Post by: mobius on October 23, 2013, 11:13:39 PM
Eymerich: I'm aware of this solution actually... but this level was made for Lemmix was it not? At least it was first in your Lemmix levelset. In Lemmix, lemming walk right over the staircase at the top so, much harder (if solvable)
I don't yet have Lemmix or Lemmini set up on my computer.
Post by: mobius on November 01, 2013, 04:04:54 PM
I'll work on this most of the day and try there's a lot of work yet so it may be a few days. Too many other distractions (like the puzzle contest) have got in the way. But don't fret, it will be completed very soon! Only thing that will not be complete when I upload the final pack is there won't be a list of the passwords. That is something that takes a very long time (you have to play through the entire pack) so I will work on that after it's uploaded.
Post by: Crane on November 02, 2013, 02:23:19 AM
Post by: mobius on November 06, 2013, 09:17:07 PM
Post by: Tim on November 12, 2013, 10:29:13 AM
Post by: namida on November 12, 2013, 12:16:14 PM
Post by: mobius on November 12, 2013, 08:45:55 PM
I am sorry that I could not have been around to contribute to this awesome community project (although my levels would only have contributed to a fun difficulty anyway). I hope it turns out to be a successful oneWe are making another one and we want more easy levels for this one so please join!
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Could I ask that this topic be locked now since it's I'd like discussion of the pack to take place on the other post where it is released. Unless there's a good reason to keep it open. (If a topic is locked u can still download attachments from it right?)
Post by: Clam on November 13, 2013, 07:15:31 AM
Attachments should be fine, at least until the next server move