Author Topic: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge  (Read 22297 times)

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Offline LemSteven

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #90 on: March 10, 2020, 10:48:47 pm »
Mayhem 8, I can't even reproduce Minim's result, let alone beat it. The best I can manage is 10 skills - three to contain + release the crowd, three builders to cross the gap. It seems you then need at least four to get past the wall without losing any lemmings (the easiest way being 2 climbers + 2 diggers).

I don't have time at the moment to try this out, but it seems to me that you should be able to get past the wall with just 1 climber + 2 diggers.  There should be plenty of time for the one climber to climb up, dig down, and repeat.

Offline namida

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #91 on: March 11, 2020, 12:19:34 am »
Mayhem 8, I can't even reproduce Minim's result, let alone beat it. The best I can manage is 10 skills - three to contain + release the crowd, three builders to cross the gap. It seems you then need at least four to get past the wall without losing any lemmings (the easiest way being 2 climbers + 2 diggers).

I don't have time at the moment to try this out, but it seems to me that you should be able to get past the wall with just 1 climber + 2 diggers.  There should be plenty of time for the one climber to climb up, dig down, and repeat.

Ah yep - I overlooked this, because I couldn't figure out how you'd get the lemming back to mine out the crowd.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Minim

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #92 on: March 11, 2020, 07:02:09 am »
Here is my 9-skill 100% solution to Mayhem 8 if anyone needs it.
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Offline MASTER-88

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #93 on: March 11, 2020, 11:54:35 am »
Quote
More Taxing:

13: 10, two extra skills are needed to free the blocker, and no-blocker approaches aren't efficient enough.

Just quickly look DOS 10 skills solution replay first time. Okay thats look DOS will requires use blocker and SNES could make this starting different skills using miner, digger and builder. However its still take same amount skills as DOS blocker strat. I pick up one thing about DOS which is used my SNES solution and if this might work you might can make 9 skills solution also DOS version. Im not are test out this on DOS yet,  but i might test later if someone else didn´t.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT:
Okay i just see this is tested and mention my SNES topic and its seems its won´t work :P

Quote
13: 10 (DOS) vs 9 (SNES).  Expected:  due to a bug in DOS, you cannot mine left-to-right the one-way wall just before the exit (miner will stop even though it's in same direction as the arrows), instead you have to mine down starting further left to get below it, then bash.  Hence the extra skill usage.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 01:39:20 pm by MASTER-88 »
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Offline LemSteven

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #94 on: March 15, 2020, 12:04:37 am »
Crazy 8 improved to 11 skills.  This is the 4-builder solution that ccexplore found waaaaay back in 2005.

Besides the four builders, the solution also uses a blocker, 3 bashers, 2 miners, and a digger.



Offline ccexplore

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #95 on: March 15, 2020, 08:05:17 am »
I had another look at Minim's post (and the three posts following it) listing levels that had not been looked at at the time. It seems that nearly all the Original levels from that post have since been looked at, the only exceptions being Mayhem 8 and 15. So it would be good to get a confirmed result for those two.

Those two match MASTER-88's current records for SNES, which have proven to be very good effort.  So while it's always possible something might be overlooked and we end up finding some better way, for now those records for DOS will likely stay.

[edit: sorry for delayed reply.  I've basically ignored all challenge threads for past 2 weeks since the computer I play the games on is out of action waiting for a replacement part to arrive.  That has finally been sorted out today.]

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #96 on: March 15, 2020, 05:49:27 pm »
A couple more improvements in Crazy:

Crazy 12: 6 skills - See this post from Clam
Crazy 19: 7 skills - This is the ceiling route, using the release rate and the long basher tunnel to create a large gap in the crowd, allowing the basher to finish the bridge over the OWW before anyone overtakes him.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #97 on: March 21, 2020, 10:26:46 pm »
Wicked 13 is now down to 16 skills.  See attached screenshot.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #98 on: April 06, 2020, 01:16:32 am »
I looked over the rest of Minim's ONML results, and came up with the following improvements:

Wicked 15: 16 skills - I haven't viewed ccexplore's replay, but the 8-builder solution I worked out also required 3 bashers, 2 miners, 2 blockers, and a floater, for a total of 16.

Wicked 18: 9 skills - see attached screenshot.  This one required some clever skill placement; see details below.
Wicked 18 Solution Details (click to show/hide)

Havoc 1: 12 skills - The ceiling route.  See attached screenshot.

Offline Minim

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #99 on: April 06, 2020, 10:01:28 am »
Nicely done on Wicked 18! :thumbsup: Looking at the image and trying to copy your solution, I struggled pulling this off, because I used your three leftmost builder placements first with the two lemmings. They kept ending up in the cave on the right. That tiny builder you made into the stalagmite I thought was a right builder but it turns out it wasn't. I did get there in the end. This does look like a fun solution, and closer to the intended one too! I did some RR adjustments to make the execution easier, but this replay still works.

Also, looking at my improved attempts to Havoc 15 I made earlier on, the 13 builder solution carries over here too. The result is 16 skills.

And yes, I checked ccexplore's replay too and that is correct.
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Offline LemSteven

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Re: Minimum skills with maximum % Challenge
« Reply #100 on: October 03, 2020, 04:08:55 am »
Wicked 4 is now reduced to 20 skills.  The improvement I found on the right side of the level for the What Skills Do You Need For Max % thread applies here, as well.  This solution does the left side completely differently, using an extra builder and floater, but saving three climbers.