Author Topic: A second gimmick pack?  (Read 6422 times)

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Offline Strato Incendus

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A second gimmick pack?
« on: May 20, 2020, 06:33:34 PM »
WillLem has suggested making a collaborative follow-up pack to my NeoLemmix 1.43 pack Lemmicks - Lemmings with gimmicks! Since other users have uttered interest in such a pack as well, I thought I'd open a thread for any further discussion of such plans, so that considerations for future levels don't get mixed up with feedback to already existing levels in the Lemmicks pack thread.

Because the pack is supposed to be easier than Lemmicks, I would object to calling it Lemmicks 2. I seem to remember that one of the Lemmings Plus packs was deliberately easier than the rest (Lemmings Plus Omega?). So one could name it Lemmicks plus some word added that makes clear that it's easier than Lemmicks and therefore sensible to play it before Lemmicks.

WillLem has suggested the following rank structure:

Quote
Rank 1: Wrap (8 levels)
Rank 2: Backwards Walkers (8 levels)
Rank 3: No Gravity (8 levels)
Rank 4: Rising Water (8 levels)
Rank 5: Frenzy (8 levels)
Rank 6: SuperLemming (with Frenzy) (8 levels)
Rank 7: Karoshi (with Mixed Gimmicks) (16 levels)
Rank 8: Bedlam (Mixed Gimmicks) (16 levels)

My impression was that in Lemmicks, the gimmicks No Gravity, Frenzy, and Superlemming were not appreciated by a lot of players. Especially the combination of Superlemming and Frenzy.

Superlemming and Frenzy obviously add execution difficulty to a level without adding any puzzle difficulty (because Superlemming increases the entire game speed, rather than just the speed of walking lemmings).

No Gravity, in contrast, is a fair and predictable gimmick - it just works very differently from standard physics. Its behaviour is easy to predict, but hard to get used to.


I first of all wanted to test the waters regarding community interest in a second gimmick pack:

1) Would you be interested in gimmicks enough to deal with the inconveniences of NeoLemmix 1.43?
These are: no Fencers, Shimmiers, or Jumpers, no skill shadows, no clear-physics mode, no recolourings for athletes, no highlight lemming, no splat ruler, and no level selection menu (you can jump back and forth between levels using the arrow keys on the pre-level screens, you don't need the codes)

2) Which gimmicks are your personal favourites, so that you would like to see dedicated ranks for them?

3) Which gimmicks do you absolutely not like?

4) What length would be appropriate for such a gimmick pack in your opinion?

5) Should the pack start with a Basic rank without any gimmicks, to introduce the player to the changed physics in NeoLemmix 1.43? (The level sides and ceiling are solid in this version, only the bottom edge is deadly.)
Some people found this rank useful in Lemmicks; others were annoyed by it and wanted to get straight into the gimmicks right away. Of course, anyone would be free to skip the first rank if there is one without gimmicks.

6) Should the pack include a Chaos rank where gimmicks are randomly mixed (like Bedlam in Lemmicks)?

7) Should the pack contain ghost lemmings again (they ignore all objects, i.e. water, fire, traps, exits, pickups, buttons, teleporters etc., and intimidate other lemmings)? If so, do you regard them as a gimmick on their own? Or a general object type, like radiation / slowfreeze? Should ghosts appear in combination with the "ghosts on death" gimmick (=whenever a lemming dies, it turns into a ghost lemming)?


I think Wrap and Karoshi are the only gimmicks for which everyone can agree that they have great puzzle potential. ;)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 09:20:49 AM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline mantha16

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 12:24:46 AM »
the only thing that puts me off is the player

is there a version that has skip frame and clear physics but can still support the gimmicks?

Offline Proxima

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 12:32:51 AM »
I believe 1.43 does have frame-skipping; it just might not support customisable hotkeys. However, it doesn't have other conveniences such as clear physics mode and skill shadows (as Strato listed in his post).

Offline WillLem

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 02:42:05 AM »
Because the pack is supposed to be easier than Lemmicks, I would object to calling it Lemmicks 2

How about Lemmicks Genesis or Lemmicks Origins? :crylaugh:

In response to your questions (I know I've already posted some general ideas, but I thought it might be useful to make my thoughts on these particular things as clear as possible:

1) Would you be interested in gimmicks enough to deal with the inconveniences of NeoLemmix 1.43?

Yes. In fact, with its absence of CPM and Skill Shadows I think it's perfect for a gimmicks pack where the focus is on playing the game and discovering things as you go along (in as positive and enjoyable a way as possible, of course). It's just a shame it doesn't have hi-res!

2) Which gimmicks are your personal favourites, so that you would like to see dedicated ranks for them?

Frenzy and Superlemming! :lemcat: Maybe rather than having a separate rank for each these (as they are essentially the same sort of thing), they could be combined into one rank as a compromise - a few Frenzy levels to get the player warmed up, then rounding out the rank with some Superlemming ones. Sure, it might not be everyone's favourite rank, but I can live with that, and after completing my recent Pause-free Challenge I have some great ideas for Frenzy levels that should be fair and enjoyable.

Other than these two, I think Backwards Walkers and Rising Water have a lot of potential, and of course Wrap and Karoshi, as you've mentioned.

3) Which gimmicks do you absolutely not like?

I'm not a fan of Lazy Lemmings, Reduce Other Skills or Turn-on-assign as these are mainly just annoying and fiddly, forcing the player to think way too carefully about every single assignment. I think I'm more in favour of gimmicks that affect the overall gameplay/physics rather than the skill assignments themselves.

4) What length would be appropriate for such a gimmick pack in your opinion?

I'd say no more than about 80-100 levels, but this is fairly arbitrary. It depends entirely on what decisions are made regarding the content. As a general rule, I'd say less is more, and it seems that players tend to appreciate packs they can complete relatively quickly unless they specifically want to take on packs that test endurance as well as skill. Since the nature of the Lemmicks idea doesn't lend itself well to this, I'd be looking to tighten up and reduce clutter wherever possible.

5) Should the pack start with a Basic rank without any gimmicks, to introduce the player to the changed physics in NeoLemmix 1.43?

No, I don't think this is necessary. People playing this pack want to get to the gimmick levels, let's give them what they want.

6) Should the pack include a Chaos rank where gimmicks are randomly mixed (like Bedlam in Lemmicks)?

Definitely, my suggestion is that it's last, and slightly larger than the other ranks to allow a good mix of ideas.

---

I'm looking forward to see what others responses are in regards to this! :lemcat:

---

I believe 1.43 does have frame-skipping; it just might not support customisable hotkeys.

I can confirm that 1.43 does indeed support frame-skipping. And, you can customise the Hotkeys; it's done in the F3 Menu in the usual manner.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 02:56:32 AM by WillLem »

Offline mantha16

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 05:52:57 AM »
I believe 1.43 does have frame-skipping; it just might not support customisable hotkeys. However, it doesn't have other conveniences such as clear physics mode and skill shadows (as Strato listed in his post).

ah it could be skill shadows i meant not frame skipping

Offline Dullstar

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2020, 06:39:55 AM »
As a suggestion, to cut down on the negative transfer from the current version to 1.43, I believe the current deadly edge behavior was available in 1.43 as a gimmick. I'd recommend always keeping this gimmick on. If you need solid sides, you can add terrain to get pretty much exactly the same effect; that way players won't have to worry about the level edge behavior being different from what they're used to.

I can't really remember all of the gimmicks, but I remember hating no gravity, but I also dislike the lazy lemmings and frenzy gimmicks. I don't mind Superlemming, but it's kind of pointless unless you combine it with frenzy, which, as I have already mentioned, I do not like.

The instant-use pickup skills were an interesting concept, but they come at the opportunity cost of no longer being able to use regular pickup skills. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing these return in the new version as a separate object type.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 06:49:27 AM by Dullstar »

Offline WillLem

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2020, 08:16:23 AM »
I believe the current deadly edge behavior was available in 1.43 as a gimmick. I'd recommend always keeping this gimmick on. If you need solid sides, you can add terrain to get pretty much exactly the same effect; that way players won't have to worry about the level edge behavior being different from what they're used to.

Agreed. If this is possible, it's definitely the way to go.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2020, 09:07:55 AM »
Yes, I had thought about deadly edges - in fact, I was facing the same decision when originally designing Lemmicks. I chose to go with solid level sides because I figured that is what somebody returning to 1.43 would expect. With new players coming in from New Formats, in turn, the opposite would be the case.

Now we have the issue though that, if Lemmicks Origins / Genesis (nice name suggestions there, WillLem! ;) ) had deadly edges throughout, it would lead to confusion when a player progresses to Lemmicks afterwards. Lemmicks also relies on the solid edges on so many levels that it would be hard to change at this point. There are in fact even Lemmicks levels that introduce deadly edges as a "gimmick".

Of course, nobody is forced to keep the same rules that I "established" in Lemmicks when creating a gimmick pack in general; it's just a special case that, if a pack has Lemmicks in its name, then the player would expect the two packs to be related and functionally similar.

Also, note that deadly edges work differently in 1.43: The lemming looks like he walks into a fire trap (frier animation), so he might die slightly earlier than he would in New Formats from walking off the map. I currently don't remember whether this also affects the ceiling, or whether the ceiling is always solid in 1.43 (meaning even with the deadly-sides gimmick switched on).

Finally, I've added one more question to the starting post, and that's the question of whether ghosts should appear in the pack again, and if so, in what form ;) .
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 01:04:08 PM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline WillLem

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2020, 03:46:15 PM »
Also, note that deadly edges work differently in 1.43: The lemming looks like he walks into a fire trap (frier animation), so he might die slightly earlier than he would in New Formats from walking off the map

Hmm. In that case, I'm not sure... maybe take it on a level-by-level basis and see what works. Obviously, the wrap ones won't be a problem. It could also be that we keep solid sides but just always have stuff around the edges of the level so it's never an issue anyway.

Finally, I've added one more question to the starting post, and that's the question of whether ghosts should appear in the pack again, and if so, in what form ;) .

I'd say only if they're never used in a confusing way! :forehead: :-[

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2020, 07:07:07 PM »
Quote
It could also be that we keep solid sides but just always have stuff around the edges of the level so it's never an issue anyway.

Yes, that seems like the easiest and most obvious solution, hadn't thought of that :forehead:.

Also this is much easier to implement with new levels than adding walls and ceilings of terrain to the existing levels in Lemmicks (which would of course also be possible in theory, but much more of a retcon hassle.)

Regarding ghosts, it's interesting, because I've never found them particularly confusing. Much like any other gimmick, they're just another set of rules that most players aren't that used to yet.

This raises the question whether we should use this opportunity to create ranks for entirely new gimmicks that didn't receive dedicated ranks in Lemmicks.

I could think of names such as

- Spooky (ghosts / ghost on death)
- Collectivist (assign to all)
- Divine (invincible)
- Rebellious (disobedience)
- Multiplying (clone on assign)

Spooky would be a rank to store all our ghost ideas. Other forum members who never made a gimmick pack still came up with some cool ghost ideas in the thread I had created for that, so I'm confident we'd be able to come up with ideas for this rank quickly as well.

Collectivist would provide a very severe skill restriction, but the levels designed around this gimmick are pretty unique. The Bedlam rank has two, as far as I recall, and those utilise assigning destructive skills while the crowd is standing on steel, or Platformers while the crowd is on flat ground, or while only a few lemmings are out yet.
You could also use a crowd being Swimmers in water while you assign Builders to a pioneer: Have the entire crowd come out of the hatch, assign a Swimmer to one lemming so that everyone is a Swimmer, contain the crowd in a water pond, isolate a pioneer (e.g. by having the last one not fall into the water), then have him build the path.

Divine, on the other hand, would make the lemmings very powerful, and levels therefore potentially very easy. It is interesting though how you can still lose lemmings that can't be killed, e.g. if they fall through water and out of the screen, or get stuck in some place (a pit or chamber) they can't escape from, so they still can't reach the exit. Just because lemmings can't die, this doesn't mean it's easy to save them, and it might be interesting to exploit the player's hubris here if they think their lemmings were indeed invincible.

Rebellious would allow any skill to serve as a potential cancel to another skill, like a Walker. Assigning any skill once will not subtract the skill from the panel - the lemming will just perform the Shrugger animation. A second assignment of a skill to that shrugging lemming makes him actually perform the skill.
This creates the unique situation where you can cancel a skill through a second assignment of that same skill, or through assignment of a permanent skill which normally would just change the state of the lemming without changing what he's doing.

Multiplying would be a spin on the Whimsical rank from Lemmicks (turn around on assign). So maybe that is going to make WillLem object to it ;) . However, with clone on assign, the original lemming continues performing the skill in the direction he's facing, and the clone doesn't necessarily affect the player negatively (unless the level designer sets the level up in a way that it does, of course :evil: ). Thus, I would argue this behaviour is much easier to predict than turn around on assign, because it just adds a lemming, rather than changing the behaviour of an existing lemming.
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline WillLem

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2020, 03:59:43 PM »
What's needed here is a list of each gimmick and what they do. It seems there are far more than I realised!

In general, I'm more in favour of those that affect game physics rather than skill assignments, and I'm not in favour of combining gimmicks anywhere except in the final rank - so, giving each gimmick its own rank definitely seems like a good idea. If nothing else, it's in keeping with the structure of original Lemmicks.

That said, I'm happy to expand on the structure of original Lemmicks by pretty much insisting that at least levels 1, 2 and 3 of each rank are no more than Fun/Tricky difficulty to allow the player time to get used to and explore the gimmick.

I'm repeating myself a lot here. Let's get on that list! We just need each one and a simple description of its function. I'll start it off in the next post with the ones I know...

Offline WillLem

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 04:03:37 PM »
List of Available Gimmicks in 1.43

SuperLemming - Speeds up all lemmings for all states including faller, walker, and all skill assignments.
Frenzy - Disables the pause button.
Wrap - Makes the edges of the level continue into each other infinitely.
Rising Water - The water level rises slowly throughout the level.
Karoshi - The idea is to kill, rather than save, the Lemmings.
No Gravity - The Lemmings walk on air horizontally. Their position can only be lowered by walking on sloping terrain, but can be raised by any number of means.

If people remind me of the others either by posting here or by PM, I'll add them to this list...

Offline Proxima

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2020, 04:21:43 PM »
The original gimmick cull topic has a list in Gronkling's post near the top.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2020, 07:10:53 PM »
Thanks for the link, Proxima! ;) Since that list doesn't include any explanations what the gimmicks actually do, though, I'll try my best to explain.

Anyone who has the editor for 1.43 (which I've put in the download folder for NeoLemmix 1.43 in my Lemmicks thread, as far as I recall) can of course also take a look at the list for themselves, and also try the gimmicks in practice for themselves. ;)

Gimmick overview

- Superlemming - increases the game speed
- Frenzy - the pause button can't be used
- Reverse Skill Count - skills count upwards when you use them, so once a number reaches 99, you can't assign more of that particular skill
- Karoshi - You need to kill the lemmings instead of saving them. Nuke is disabled.
- Unalterable terrain - destructive skills don't remove terrain, constructive skills don't create terrain, only the lemming performing them moves along with the regular skill trajectory
- Overflow skill count - once a skill count reaches 00 on your panel, if you assign another one of that skill, it jumps back up to 99, counting down from there (=infinite skills, basically)
- No Gravity - lemmings can't fall down, but walk in the air; they need to use slopes to go down, like Swimmers
- Hard workers - Bashers continue even when there is no more terrain to be removed; Builders and Platformers continue, i.e. don't require repeated assignments; Miners and Diggers are theoretically affected to, but of course still stop when they lose terrain under their feet
- Backwards walking - lemmings walk backwards put perform skills in the direction they are facing
- Lazy Lemmings - constructive and creative skills stop earlier than usual
- Exhaustion - athletes can only use their skills for a short distance before turning into regular fallers again; Swimmers and Disarmers are unaffected; often used in combination with Lazy Lemmings
- Non-fatal bombers - Bombers still explode but don't die (like in Lemmings 2); Stoners are unaffected
- Invincibilty - lemmings can't splat, drown, burn, or die from triggered traps, but can still fall out of the level or get stuck in places they can't escape from
- One skill per lemming - once any lemming has been assigned a skill, that lemming can't be assigned any further skills, so you have to use other lemmings for further assignments
- Steel Inversion - steel is destructable, regular terrain is steel
- Solid Floor - bottom edge of the level is solid
- Non-Permanent Skills - lemmings lose athletics skills after one use (e.g. Swimmers act like L2 Kayakers)
- Disobedience - assigning any skill once leads to the lemming just shrugging and the skill not being removed from the skill panel yet; an assignment during shrugging leads to the lemming actually performing the skill, and consume a skill from the panel
- Nuclear Bombers - Bombers create a larger crater
- Turn Around on Assign - lemmings turn around whenever you assign a skill to them, i.e. perform the skill in the other direction
- Count Down Other Skills - whenever you assign a skill, you don't lose 1 of that skill, but 1 of every other skill on your panel
- Assign to All - assigning a skill to any one lemming will assign it to all other lemmings as well, so they'll perform it if possible (e.g. lemmings on steel can't dig or mine, lemmings on flat terrain won't platform, etc.)
- Horizontal/Vertical Wrap - if a lemming reaches one edge of a level, he will re-enter the level at the opposite edge
- Deadly sides - level sides are solid by default in NeoLemmix 1.43; this will turn the sides into fire traps (lemmings perform the frier animation)
- Rising Water - water and fire objects rise at a customisable speed, i.e. slowly expand their trigger area; can be used as a hazard or as a tool in combination with Swimmers
- Clock Gimmick - certain terrain is present or absent, depending at what time of the day you play the level
- Zombies/Ghosts - Zombies are still present; Ghosts are lemmings that ignore any objects and can be assigned skills
- Invert Fall Fatality - small drops lead to lemmings splatting (i.e. if they turned into a Faller before), drops >64 pixels are survivable
- Cheapo Mode - different settings for splat height
- Bait-and-switch - shows one level on the preview screen but then takes you to a different level once you start the level (used for the Rick Astley level to rickroll the player)
- Clone-on-assign - any skill assignment will clone the lemming in addition, so that the cloned lemming will also have the skill you assigned, plus any other skills that lemming had before
- Instant pickup skills - a lemming walking through a pickup skill uses it instantly, if possible (e.g. Fallers can't use certain skills, Swimmers can't etc.). Allows to have more than 8 different skill types as pickups in a level, because they don't need to be present on the panel.
- Permanent Blockers - Blockers turn back into Blockers after falling; they can only be freed by Walkers
- Release rate fluctuation - whenever you assign a skill, the release rate will flip back and forth between 99 and the minimum release rate of the level
- Classic Zombies - this one was missing from Gronkling's list: Zombies can collect pickup skills and press exit buttons
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 09:08:09 PM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline WillLem

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Re: A second gimmick pack?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2020, 06:25:21 PM »
Thanks for the list, Strato! :thumbsup:

Here are my extremely summarised, simplified thoughts on the gimmicks. I've also ordered them roughly by preference:

I like these:
- Superlemming - increases the game speed - Great potential, clearly my favourite of the gimmicks.
- Horizontal/Vertical Wrap - if a lemming reaches one edge of a level, he will re-enter the level at the opposite edge - Another favourite, and again plenty of potential.
- Karoshi - You need to kill the lemmings instead of saving them - This has potential for an entire pack, I think we can agree this should make a significant appearance.
- Rising Water - water and fire objects rise at a customisable speed - Really like this idea, particularly for combination with Swimmer puzzles.
- Clock Gimmick - certain terrain is present or absent, depending at what time of the day you play the level - Really like this idea! It basically sounds like a random-level-creation algorithm!
- Backwards walking - lemmings walk backwards put perform skills in the direction they are facing - This takes a bit of getting used to, but is great fun. A definite keeper.
- Release rate fluctuation - whenever you assign a skill, the release rate will flip back and forth - Amusing idea, and provides a good reason to have levels with very high lemming counts! I'd like to have a play with this one even if it doesn't make the final cut.
- One skill per lemming - once any lemming has been assigned a skill, that lemming can't be assigned any further skills - Possibly the only skill-affecting gimmick that I like and can see potential for, because it enforces multiple workers.
- Assign to All - assigning a skill to any one lemming will assign it to all other lemmings as well - To be fair, I can see this one being quite fun also, as long as the levels are fairly open-ended.
- Invert Fall Fatality/Cheapo Mode - different settings for splat height - Could be fun, it's basically permanent splat/antisplat pads; could generate some interesting levels.
- Clone-on-assign - any skill assignment will clone the lemming in addition - Sure, OK. This one's alright as well.

These are good, but...:
- No Gravity - lemmings can't fall down, but walk in the air - Again, I personally don't mind this one, because it affects the game physics and is at least predictable, but it doesn't seem very popular unfortunately.
- Frenzy - the pause button can't be used - Seems a bit pointless on its own without the Superlemming gimmick, so I'd suggest combining them.
- Non-fatal bombers - Bombers still explode but don't die - I like this idea generally, but it should probably be used in combination with Karoshi rather than given its own rank.
- Zombies - Zombies can collect pickup skills and press exit buttons - Zombies are good fun, and this behaviour is that bit more useful and puzzle-friendly, but since they're not really a novelty at this point I'd, again, probably suggest just using them randomly rather than giving them their own rank.
- Nuclear Bombers - Bombers create a larger crater - Seems OK, but less like an outright "gimmick" and more like simply a difference in physics... not sure it's relevant for use in a "gimmicks" pack.
- Non-Permanent Skills - lemmings lose athletics skills after one use - This is another one of the skill-affecting ones that's kind of OK, but I can see it just becoming annoying.
- Instant pickup skills - a lemming walking through a pickup skill uses it instantly - A great idea with lots of potential, but I just generally don't enjoy playing these levels. Happy to give them another try, though.
- Deadly sides - this will turn the sides into fire traps - Seems a bit... meh, since everyone is used to deadly sides anyway, but could be useful for reminding players that sides are not normally deadly in 1.43.
- Steel Inversion - steel is destructable, regular terrain is steel - This one seems kind of pointless unless it's used to invert well-known levels.
- Reverse Skill Count - skills count upwards when you use them - This is really no different to having 99 of everything, so seems a bit pointless.
- Invincibilty - lemmings can't splat, drown, burn, or die from triggered traps - Again, seems a bit pointless: might as well just not have the traps there... and, it would be way too confusing and annoying to combine it with Karoshi so I'd also suggest against that.

I don't like these:
- Disobedience - assigning any skill once leads to the lemming just shrugging - Whilst I can see the potential for this to be useful when the behaviour is desired, it's simply annoying and fiddly when the behaviour isn't desired.
- Ghosts - Ghosts are lemmings that ignore any objects and can be assigned skills - I'm not sure I like these. It's just too many fiddly rules to remember.
- Unalterable terrain - destructive skills don't remove terrain, constructive skills don't create terrain - I'm generally not a fan of gimmicks that affect the skill assignments/skills themselves.
- Hard workers - don't require repeated assignments - Ditto
- Lazy Lemmings - constructive and creative skills stop earlier than usual - Ditto
- Exhaustion - athletes can only use their skills for a short distance before turning into regular fallers again - Ditto
- Turn Around on Assign - lemmings turn around whenever you assign a skill to them - Ditto
- Count Down Other Skills - whenever you assign a skill, you don't lose 1 of that skill, but 1 of every other skill on your panel - Ditto
- Solid Floor - bottom edge of the level is solid - Might as well just have terrain there.
- Bait-and-switch - shows one level on the preview screen but then takes you to a different level - :eyeroll:
- Permanent Blockers - Blockers turn back into Blockers after falling; they can only be freed by Walkers - Urgh! Just... no!

Other:
- Overflow skill count - IIRC - Not sure what this does as the description was just "IIRC"...? :P

General thought: I think, since there are so many, we should choose maybe 10 and make 8 levels of each, plus a Bedlam rank of 20 levels featuring a mix. That's 100 levels altogether - a decent-sized pack.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 06:32:09 PM by WillLem »