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Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2019, 10:48:35 am »
The Exorcist is perfectly within the margins that define the joke skills in this topic, due to its deliberately narrow range of application! :thumbsup:

The Sleeper would basically serve the same purpose as my Catcher, or as the Blocker is already being used right now in advanced levels - you abuse another skill simply to make a lemming wait in one specific place. Thus, your Guitarist and Banana skills would be redundant, because they serve that same purpose (I guess the Librarian would be as well). The Guitarist especially reminds me of the Attractor, at least in some of the L2 tilesets (because the animations differ vastly depending on in which tribe you use the Attractor - several of them play instruments, though).

The Freezer might actually be somewhat interesting
- however, a time-based "thawing" process would add similar execution difficulty as timed Bombers, radiation, or slowfreeze. In this case, it would just be "slow-unfreeze" :D , or timed Blockers (=that stop being Blockers after a while, essentially, much like with the "Exhaustion" gimmick back in the day). If the Freezer permanently freezes lemmings until they are freed again "manually" through some other skill assignment, I think this would be much more puzzle-friendly! :thumbsup:

The Rebel Without A Cause would essentially just be a Ghost lemming in reverse - rather than driving other lemmings away through intimidation, this lemming itself would always turn away.

The Invisible Lemming would almost definitely only serve trolling purposes.

The SuperHero would be broken, especially since there already is such a thing as the Superlem in Lemmings 2: The Tribes, and basically, all it can do is fly. Your skill is more accurately named as "The Mary Sue". :P

The Reverse Nuke sounds funny - but also like a constant backroute on the skill panel. And then again, basically you can achieve exactly that same effect by simply providing an infinite number of Cloners. Have fun clicking... :D

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They then sleep with another Lemming's girlfriend.

You'd need to ask Simon whether he'd be fine with Lix sprites being implemented into NeoLemmix in general. :D I think they're under creative-commons license, anyway.

Apart from that, this is precisely what I meant when I reminded everyone in the opening post that we already have the Cloner for Lemming Reproduction... :P

I do expect more references to the game "Sven" from now on, though... :D


Another skill suggestion by me, which is based on a type of terrain present in various jump-and-run games, such as Super Mario / Super Tux, Speedy Eggbert etc.:


The Mobiliser. This lemming removes an 8-x-8-pixels chunk of terrain from underneath him and then makes that piece of terrain move, either along a vertical or along a horizontal trajectory. This basically creates a "lift", or a platform that can carry lemmings across a gap. The Mobiliser cannot affect steel, because that would require to "break" the steel apart.
The skill would thereby place a trigger area on top of this piece of terrain. While any lemming is inside this trigger area, he stands still, waiting for the mobilised piece of terrain to arrive at its destination. Whenever the mobilised piece of terrain hits other terrain, it stops its movement and waits until there are no further lemmings within its trigger area. Consequently, whenever the mobilised terrain bumps into other terrain without any lemmings being inside the trigger area at that moment, it will immediately turn around and move into the other direction.
As such, the mobilised terrain will keep moving once the lemming who originally mobilised it has stepped off.
The direction of movement would be assigned during skill assignment, i.e. this skill would require a double-assignment, much like Roper / Archer in Lemmings 2: The Tribes, or the Turner in Lemmings 3D: One click to pick the lemming, who immediately stands still waiting for further commands; then a click to define the direction of movement for the mobilised terrain.

Probably, having two fields pop up above the lemmings head - one with an up-down arrow for vertical movement, one with a left-right arrow for horizontal movement - would be more reliable than going with "above / below the lemming = vertical; left / right of the lemming = horizontal": The latter would be difficult to hit exactly, because most points clicked by the player would probably be in some type of diagonal position to the lemming. That would make it difficult to determine which direction of movement - vertical or horizontal - should take precedent.


And some more:

The Blacksmith. This lemming creates a piece of steel, 8 pixels in height. As such, he can be used like a Stacker, but just like with the Stacker-Stoner distinction, there are some subtle differences. For example, the Blacksmith can be used to stop destructive skills from continuing, turning the lemming performing the destructive skill around in the process ("tanking on steel", as it's often done with Miners). The steel piece he creates could also be shaped in an irregular way, much like the Stoner, to prevent Climbers from going over it, thereby increasing the differences to the Stacker.

The Poisoner. This is an upgraded version of the Disarmer that probably looks most convincing with any type of animal trap (but it would work on any triggered trap, of course). Think of the Frog from outdoor, or the Chameleon from Rock, or the Snake from Menace: The lemming poisons the animal so that it pukes out all the lemmings it has devoured. It now acts like a limited-number hatch, meaning the interval between the lemmings matches with the currently-set spawn rate, and the number of lemmings it will release is equal to the number of lemmings that previously walked into this particular trap. Just like with limited-number hatches, the number of remaining lemmings would appear above the trap once the Poisoner has done his work.
The trap trigger is disabled by the Poisoner, of course, because otherwise, every lemming would be killed again immediately. Don't worry, this would not require distinctive "puking" animations for every trap - the standard trap animation would simply be played in reverse, with the lemming coming from the animal's jaw and being placed at the spot of the original trigger area.
The Poisoner does not work on one-use traps, because their trigger areas have already been removed after the first lemming walked into them.

The Ballet Dancer.
This lemming moves like a regular Walker, but is constantly doing a pirouette. As such, any other lemming who walks into the Ballet Dancer touches his hands, therefore turning around, as if he had just met a Blocker. Whenever the Ballet Dancer reaches the edge of a piece of terrain, i.e. would transition into a Faller, he transitions into a Jumper instead. If the end of the Jumper trajectory leads him back to regular terrain, he continues being a Ballet Dancer. If however he turns into a regular Faller after the end of the Jumper animation, he will not be a Ballet Dancer anymore once he hits terrain again, and instead regularly transitions from being a Faller back to being a Walker.
This skill would somewhat combine the intimidating behaviour of Ghosts (=turning lemmings around) with the idea of having a sort-of permanent-skill Jumper - because he could jump repeatedly, all by himself, without requiring additional skill assignment, if he ballet-dances along a series of suitable gaps. At the same time, he would not be as limited as the Hopper in Lemmings 2: The Hopper usually fails quickly, due to his intense vertical movement that often causes him to quit after bumping his head on a ceiling. The Ballet Dancer, in contrast, would never jump higher than a regular Jumper.

The Sniper. Similar to the Gunman, however, this one would be a permanent skill: The lemming lies down with a rifle pointed into the direction he's facing. Now, at 16 pixels distance, a trigger area is placed at the same height as the lemming. The lemming now acts like a triggered trap, killing any lemming, neutral, or zombie that walks into the trigger area.
He can be released just like a Blocker, i.e. by removing the terrain under his feet, or by assigning a Walker to him.
Just like triggered traps, the Sniper is release-rate sensitive: From an army of zombies walking towards him, he could still only kill a few, before the first zombie reaches him and infects him. However, just the fact that he's a zombie doesn't stop the Sniper from shooting: Since a regular Sniper lemming would also be deadly to other lemmings, a zombie Sniper lemming would also be a deadly to other zombies. A zombie Sniper simply couldn't be saved anymore, like any other zombie - whereas a regular Sniper can be freed like a Blocker, as said above, and then go to the exit.
While you would usually usde the Sniper against zombies, there may also be cases where you want him for "friendly fire" and kill other regular lemmings. One such example is my level "A level of ice and fire" from Pit Lems, where you have to bomb a lemming to prevent him from slowfreezing / stoning in the wrong position.

To avoid skill redundancy, maybe this specific application could also be achieved through an interaction of Blocker and the aforementioned Gunman?

In that case, the Gunman would be a permanent skill, as well, constantly carrying a deadly trigger area around 16 pixels in front of him, like a moving trap. If you now assign a Blocker to the Gunman (or any other skill that makes him stop, like the previous introduced Catcher), the trigger area would still be there, but he would stand still, i.e. become a trap fixed in position.

The Catcher-Gunman combination seems particularly interesting in this regard:

It would be pretty pointless to have the Catcher-Gunman catch a Faller from above first, preventing him from splatting, only to then shoot that same lemming because he walks into his trigger area. But logically, this wouldn't happen: The Catcher, as previously suggested, stops standing still once any other lemming touches him. As such, the former Catcher and the "caught" lemming end up compressed. As long as the trigger area of the Gunman remains in front of the former Catcher, it also protects the lemming he caught.

As such, the Catcher-Gunman combination might actually be a rather "romantic" one, where the Gunman did not only catch a Faller in his arms, but also protects the other lemming from any zombies they encounter. :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 11:37:59 am by Strato Incendus »
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Online namida

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2019, 05:34:44 pm »
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Thus, your Guitarist and Banana skills would be redundant, because they serve that same purpose (I guess the Librarian would be as well).

I don't see anything suggesting the Banana would stay stationary. :P

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You'd need to ask Simon whether he'd be fine with Lix sprites being implemented into NeoLemmix in general. :D I think they're under creative-commons license, anyway.

Apart from that, this is precisely what I meant when I reminded everyone in the opening post that we already have the Cloner for Lemming Reproduction...

NeoLemmix is CC-BY-NC, Lix is public domain. This essentially means that anyone can use Lix sprites for anything they want, including commercial usage, no credit given (at least legally speaking; obviously this would be quite morally questionable). NeoLemmix on the other hand, CC-BY-NC requires that credit be given and forbids commercial usage, but beyond that the code can still be used freely. (Some graphical resources obviously belong to whoever owns the right to Lemmings. Those that don't, but are part of NL itself (rather than a user-made style), would be covered by CC-BY-NC.)

In terms of the actual suggestion; I'd think that the lemming using this skill would hope that reproduction does not occur. :P Even if it would, a genetic mix of two parents is a bit different from a straight-up clone of one. :P Which raises the question - would a Lix-Lemming hybrid be biologically possible? If so, would the offspring be sterile, like most (but not all) cross-species animals are in the real world? What would it look like?


Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2019, 08:38:59 pm »
In that case, I'd welcome Lix sprites in NeoLemmix, given that many tilesets from Lix have already been copied to NeoLemmix anyway! :thumbsup: So they could be the sprites that go along with the themes of the Lix tilesets. Obviously, this would require Lix sprites for NeoLemmix-exclusive skills, such as the Shimmier.

And, for a level "When a Lem loves a woman" (just one example off the top of my head, given that I usually go with song titles as level titles :D ), it would be necessary to combine two different types of sprites - like regular default Lemmings and Lix - in one and the same level...
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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2019, 11:27:14 am »
The Rock Climber can also, in contrast to the regular Climber, climb up slopes up to 45 degrees in angle.
I guess you mean 135, as walkers can 'climb' up slopes of 45 degrees in angle. :P

Online WillLem

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2020, 04:41:39 pm »
The Mobiliser. This lemming removes an 8-x-8-pixels chunk of terrain from underneath him and then makes that piece of terrain move, either along a vertical or along a horizontal trajectory. This basically creates a "lift", or a platform that can carry lemmings across a gap.

This is a great idea, and could even be implemented as an object rather than a skill - upwards or sidewards-moving lifts, for example. It could be so that lifts are inactive until activated by pressing a button, if you wanted to take it a step further into puzzle territory rather than simply a method of transport.

The Blacksmith. This lemming creates a piece of steel, 8 pixels in height.

Another good idea; as well as the features you mentioned, it's also creating an indestructible stacker. Would the Blacksmith be able to be stopped part-way through the creation of the steel block, to make it a smaller piece of steel...or would it always be 8 pixels high?

The Poisoner is an excellently complex piece of thinking - you'd essentially be able to use Lemming-swallowing traps as temporary storage for a certain number of Lemmings! This gave me an idea - what if there were an object similar to a teleporter which "stored" Lemmings until released...? It would remove the need for creative crowd control, though, which would almost certainly divide opinion as to its relevance in a game of Lemmings. I for one love solving/creating puzzles that require some thinking when it comes to holding Lemmings and releasing a worker.

The Ballet Dancer.[/b] This lemming moves like a regular Walker, but is constantly doing a pirouette. As such, any other lemming who walks into the Ballet Dancer touches his hands, therefore turning around, as if he had just met a Blocker. Whenever the Ballet Dancer reaches the edge of a piece of terrain, i.e. would transition into a Faller, he transitions into a Jumper instead. If the end of the Jumper trajectory leads him back to regular terrain, he continues being a Ballet Dancer. If however he turns into a regular Faller after the end of the Jumper animation, he will not be a Ballet Dancer anymore once he hits terrain again, and instead regularly transitions from being a Faller back to being a Walker.

This is by far my favourite of your ideas from this post! It's beautifully haphazard whilst also being extremely useful - however, the level would have to be very carefully designed to implement its use. I'm all for this, at least in the world of joke skills! :thumbsup:

As such, the Catcher-Gunman combination might actually be a rather "romantic" one, where the Gunman did not only catch a Faller in his arms, but also protects the other lemming from any zombies they encounter. :thumbsup:

Haha! A romantic idea indeed! I like this idea, but the Sniper/Gunman would have to be "trained" to only kill zombies rather than the aforementioned idea of killing anything in its path. Also, does it act like a blocker and stop Lemmings from passing from behind, or would a blocker also be needed for this? And if it's release-rate sensitive, several of these may need to be assigned to hold back a horde of zombies. This is where The Exorcist might come in handy! ;)

Some great ideas!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 04:47:12 pm by WillLem »

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2020, 05:43:05 pm »
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This is a great idea, and could even be implemented as an object rather than a skill - upwards or sidewards-moving lifts, for example. It could be so that lifts are inactive until activated by pressing a button, if you wanted to take it a step further into puzzle territory rather than simply a method of transport.

I have considered the idea of lifts many times, up to and including having ideas of how to implement them in a way that won't make them too execution-focused. The problem: They'd be a HUGE mess to code (especially if we want any logical interaction with constructive skills being assigned on top of them), and there are edge cases that don't have an obvious logical answer. (eg: A flat-topped lift moves upwards and hits a flat-bottomed ceiling, while a lemming is standing on them. Real-life logic, and typical video game logic, suggests the lemming dies. Lemmings logic, suggests the lemming just gets stuck in the ceiling until the lift moves away. The former would be unexpected in Lemmings, the latter feels borderline glitchy.)

So while I wouldn't consider it a joke idea by any means (well, not the general idea of lifts, at least - this specific means of creating one is a bit joke-y), it's also firmly in the "not going to happen" territory for other reasons, sadly.

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2020, 03:27:35 am »
The Comforter - This Lemming gives all of the other Lemmings a biscuit and a cup of tea, which they partake of gratefully.

The Existential Philosopher - This Lemming begins to study the history of existentialism, concluding that the best course of action is to split the level down the middle so that it opens up, revealing an infinite void into which the Lemmings fearlessly leap. They then reappear on the other side of the known universe, proving that it is in fact an infinite loop. This causes Michael J Fox to appear, who gently ushers the Lemmings into the exit before going back to the future.

The Romantic Fool - This Lemming falls hopelessly in love with the Lemming immediately to their left, and chases them around the level until they either die or reach the exit.

The Nobody Would Ever Use This-er - Upon assigning this skill, the Lemming instantly vanishes. This causes the player's version of NeoLemmix to then only be able to run on Windows XP machines that aren't connected to the internet and which have a 512MB hard drive that only works at night-time under a green light bulb. The only way to reverse the process is to complete Just Dig! from a different room using a wireless mouse.

The Chocolatier - This Lemming turns into chocolate, and then begins to turn the other Lemmings, terrain and objects into chocolate. Soon, the player's desktop and computer start to turn into chocolate, until the player is left with a chocolate computer which they then must either eat or sell to buy a new computer.

The Cuddler - This Lemming roams around cuddling all of the other Lemmings. Whilst cuddling, the two Lemmings remain in place for about 10 seconds, after which the Cuddler moves on to a different Lemming, at random. Once all the Lemmings have been cuddled, the Cuddler goes to sleep until assigned a different skill, or until the level is solved, at which point they wake up and walk towards the exit. When they reach the exit, they wait there until the player has cuddled someone. Then they go through the exit, completing the level.

The Sensible Princess - When assigned, this Lemming spends the remainder of the level encouraging the player to think of themselves as a magical princess. They are then able to complete the level by using Special Powers such as CrystalVision, which allows the player's eyes to send small shimmering sparks of light into their computer which reveal the level's solution. Upon successful completion of the level in a near-euphoric state of abject excitement, the player then calms down and goes for a walk to clear their mind. Upon their return, they reflect on their experience over a cup of tea and a sugar-free biscuit and then continue playing as normal.

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2020, 03:58:36 am »
Mother"fudge"r - The lemming turns into Samuel L Jackson and removes all snakes (only works on plane-themed levels).

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2020, 09:27:55 am »
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The Sensible Princess - When assigned, this Lemming spends the remainder of the level encouraging the player to think of themselves as a magical princess. They are then able to complete the level by using Special Powers such as CrystalVision, which allows the player's eyes to send small shimmering sparks of light into their computer which reveal the level's solution.

Shouldn't that skill be called "The Mary Sue"? :P Or, in more current terms, Rey Skywalker?

Not to be confused with your Lightsaberer skill... :D
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Online WillLem

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2020, 03:35:50 am »
Mother"fudge"r - The lemming turns into Samuel L Jackson and removes all snakes (only works on plane-themed levels).

:crylaugh: :crylaugh: :crylaugh:

Shouldn't that skill be called "The Mary Sue"? :P Or, in more current terms, Rey Skywalker?

Haha I guess so! ;)

I've always liked the idea of some sort of reverse nuke skill that just solves the level for you or creates a ton of extra Lemmings. I guess solution replays and cloners do the job between them! (Just ask Flopsy - cloners are probably my favourite of the new skills. ;P)

What do you think the ultimate Mary Sue skill would be?

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Joke ideas for skills and objects
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2020, 01:43:45 pm »
Well, among the old gimmicks, there was one called "invincibility", that gets pretty close, I think. ;) It appears somewhere on the Bedlam rank of my pack "Lemmicks", on a medieval level. Even those lemmings can die, though; they can't drown in water, but that means they simply fall through it, like Ghosts. And if there's no terrain under the water, they fall out of the screen and are still gone this way. :P

Although there's another one which is also quite powerful - and, in contrast to all the others, there should already be sprites for this! :evil:

The Crawler. Can be assigned to a lemming stuck inside terrain (including steel). He then crawls up that terrain vertically, on the outside (turning his back towards the player), until he reaches a walkable surface again, at which point he continues walking into the direction he was facing when he was assigned the skill. This will greatly profit from NeoLemmix's framestepping features, because lemmings stuck in terrain usually flip back and forth between looking left and right on every single frame.
Basically, this would turn what is a glitch / borderline cheat in Lemmings 2: The Tribes (but apparently also intended behaviour, otherwise there wouldn't be a dedicated animation for it?) into a deliberately assignable skill.

And, something else that just came to my mind:

The Blower. A stationary skill that makes the lemming pull out a hairdryer, or set up a ventilator, that points upwards. Alternatively, it could also be a water hose, but that might be confusable with the Sucker / Flooder / Firefighter. Every lemming walking past the Blower is carried vertically upwards by the stream. Like Gliders, the lemmings inside the trigger area would always move slowly to the edge of it, but not to the bottom edge of the area (like Swimmers do in water, as well), but to the left or right edge, respectively, depending on which direction they're facing. This allows them to land on terrain again once they've been lifted up sufficiently. This happens when they bump their head at a ceiling; they simply transition to regular Fallers then. That's why lemmings inside the Blower's stream need to move slightly sidewards; otherwise, they would simply hit their head on whatever piece of terrain they're supposed to land on.
Fallers can't be blown upward by the Blower again, only Walkers can; but Fallers inside the Blowers trigger area can't splat, like with updrafts. And once a Faller transitions back into a Walker at the ground, if he's still inside the Blower's trigger area, he will obviously be lifted up again.
The connection between Blowers and Walkers would be visible by the Walkers moving their feet inside the stream while being lifted up, as if they were walking on air and somewhat "supporting" their upward movement.
Blowers themselves can be freed, like Blockers, by assigning a Walker to them or removing the terrain under their feet (or bombing / stoning them, of course). When freed, a Blower will not be able to use his own stream anymore to carry himself upward. As such, he will have to find a different way to follow the crowd. A nice way to isolate a lemming, though! :thumbsup:

The Blaster. Every lemming that gets touched by the Blaster becomes a Bomber on the spot.

The Gorgon. Every lemming that gets touched by the Gorgon becomes a Stoner on the spot.

The Priest. Every lemming that gets touched by the Priest "goes forth and multiplies", i.e. becomes a Cloner on the spot. :D

These last three skills could be particularly interesting when you don't provide the player with regular Bombers / Stoners / Cloners, but only with these "second-hand" skills: Try to free a crowd by bombing the Blocker holding them back, but you only have a Blaster. Now you need to find a way to have a Blaster walk up to the Blocker to make him explode, without that Blaster killing your entire crowd immediately afterwards! :evil:

On the other hand, of course, Blaster and Gorgon would be extremely useful to kill zombies. And since the zombie would stone behind the Gorgon, none of the zombies the Gorgon kills would be able to stop that lemming with the piece of terrain the zombie becomes. The same is true for the pit created by an exploding zombie: It would lie behind the Blaster, who has already walked past at the point of explosion. The Blaster/Gorgon himself of course would also turn into a zombie once he touches the first one, but as we know, becoming a zombie doesn't deprive a lemming of any of his abilities. :D As such, the remaining zombies would be killed by one of their own kind...
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 02:00:22 pm by Strato Incendus »
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels