NeoLemmix 24-bit/Hi-Res Graphics & Sprites

[WillLem]

FAO Namida & NeoLemmix developers, plus anyone who's interested!:

Since I've started working on the sprites & graphics for a potential Hi-Res mod for NeoLemmix, I thought it best to continue sharing them here rather than on the poll.

So... here is an example of the following:

- Climber sprite set extracted from WinLemm & adapted/recoloured
- Swimmer sprite set, complete with flippers and snorkel!
- Glider sprite set
- Floater button
- Restart button

These have largely been adapted from the WinLemm sprites and the SuperLemmini button sets, I've changed to colours to look more natural & pleasing and added a few little details to give it my own flavour/humour

I'll give the remaining sprites & buttons the same treatment and upload them here. I'll also redo the low-res Disarmer sprites so they have their own action.

Feedback very welcome: do you like these? Can they be used with a low-res map? Any ideas/suggestions?

[NieSch]

Nice work! I like the humorous touch.

[namida]

The lemming sprites look very nice!

The button panels aren't particularly useful though, as they don't fit with how NL works. Take a look in styles/default/panel - notice how we have skill_panels.png that contains a few panel backgrounds (this basically works by using the first one for the first panel, second for the 2nd, etc, if it runs out, it loops back to the first one for the next panel), and then icon graphics such as icon_restart.png that just have the icon graphic with a blank background.

With skill icons (except Disarmer, which currently works the same way as above, but this will likely change once we have a proper disarmer sprite), this goes one step further: only the background gets used. The actual icon itself is generated using the lemming sprite. (This is a new thing in recent versions of NL.)

As it looks like there's serious interest in making this happen, and not just tossing around of "this would be a neat idea, right?", I'll give some strong consideration to getting these into use once V12.7 doesn't need much more work, and maybe even having the feature ready for V12.8 (although no promises here, and if it misses that, it'll be V12.10, as only even-numbered updates make major graphical changes from V12.8 onwards). To content creators - don't panic, the use of high-res graphics will be completely optional, and you can continue shipping styles with only low-res graphics (indeed, I likely won't update my existing ones to high-res); you'll just have the ability to also ship high-res graphics for those who want to use them. We'll discuss closer to the time whether it's "you must provide low-res" or "you can provide just high-res, and NL will downscale".

[ccexplore]

With skill icons (except Disarmer, which currently works the same way as above, but this will likely change once we have a proper disarmer sprite), this goes one step further: only the background gets used. The actual icon itself is generated using the lemming sprite. (This is a new thing in recent versions of NL.)

Hmm, I hope I'm not bringing up an old debate, but seeing what WillLem posted here makes me question not having an option for skill icons to not be auto-generated using lemming sprites?  If the skill icons will be quite a bit larger in size than the sprites, then it makes sense to me to at least have an option for the icons not always be auto-generated from sprites, so that the icons can incorporate more details that wouldn't work with the sprites (due to either having less pixels in the sprites, and/or because the sprites need to be animated rather than being still images like the icons).

[namida]

Hmm, I hope I'm not bringing up an old debate, but seeing what WillLem posted here makes me question not having an option for skill icons to not be auto-generated using lemming sprites?  If the skill icons will be quite a bit larger in size than the sprites, then it makes sense to me to at least have an option for the icons not always be auto-generated from sprites, so that the icons can incorporate more details that wouldn't work with the sprites (due to either having less pixels in the sprites, and/or because the sprites need to be animated rather than being still images like the icons).

Not an old debate - the feature existed, and was removed because it meant extra work for custom content creators, who almost invariably either didn't change the skill icons or replaced them with copies based on their custom sprites. I can't think of a single case where outright custom ones that differ from the respective custom lemming sprites were in use. By comparison - the current setup will automatically adjust to any custom lemming sprites, on a per-level basis. The only complaint I received about this removal was from someone who thought it'd mean that they'd always have default lemming sprites on the skill panel, and didn't realise that in a level that uses custom sprites, those custom sprites would be used to generate the skill panel as well - they were fine with it once I explained this.

As such - this feature is pretty unlikely to return.

[ccexplore]

Hmm, it's possible I misremembered, but is the skill icon for floater posted by WillLem above the exact same graphic as the one of the frames for WinLemm floater sprite?  I'm not so sure (but don't have WinLemm around to compare)?  Are the sizes (width and height) even similar?

If the icons are basically same size as the sprite then I guess it matters a lot less.

I suppose the fact that past custom content creators never customized the icons differently from the sprites do speak volumes about demand for feature, that is a fair enough point.

[WillLem]

Nice work! I like the humorous touch.

Thanks NieSch. These were done in the silly spirit of the original game, hope I've managed to do it justice

The lemming sprites look very nice!

The button panels aren't particularly useful though, as they don't fit with how NL works. Take a look in styles/default/panel - notice how we have skill_panels.png that contains a few panel backgrounds (this basically works by using the first one for the first panel, second for the 2nd, etc, if it runs out, it loops back to the first one for the next panel), and then icon graphics such as icon_restart.png that just have the icon graphic with a blank background.

Thanks Namida, means a lot that you like these. I'm enjoying the project so I'll definitely keep going with the others.

As for the buttons... I can't help but think that it would be great to have a nice looking chunky button panel. I like the smooth, "clickable" button look & feel of Lemmini. Would it be a massive pain to implement a different panel style for hi-res mode?

If so, I'm happy to simply do an upscale of the existing panel components and provide sprites/graphics for all buttons including skills. That way, you can keep the coding the way it is whilst retaining a unique look for the skill buttons (rather than them defaulting to the skill sprite - unless this is what you'd prefer, of course).

Again, happy to help with all of this and do whatever's needed to make the finished article look as fantastic as possible. I'm really glad that you're on board for going ahead with it as a mini project, and I agree that it's best not to rush. It's better to take a decent amount of time over it to get it as solid as possible.

Hmm, it's possible I misremembered, but is the skill icon for floater posted by WillLem above the exact same graphic as the one of the frames for WinLemm floater sprite?  I'm not so sure (but don't have WinLemm around to compare)?  Are the sizes (width and height) even similar?

If the icons are basically same size as the sprite then I guess it matters a lot less.

I suppose the fact that past custom content creators never customized the icons differently from the sprites do speak volumes about demand for feature, that is a fair enough point.

I used one frame of the WinLemm floater sprite; re-coloured it, gave it an outline for more definition, added pupils for eyes, and changed the umbrella colour to red and white. I like the idea of having a "Super Sprite" as the button icons, an approach that quite a few versions of Lemmings have taken over the years.

Thanks all for your replies. It's great to feel a part of the community Watch this space for more sprites coming soon!

- WillLem

[WillLem]

Revisited the Glider today to tidy it up a bit. Also, here's the Disarmer and the Platformer! Let me know what you think.

Cheers,

- WillLem

[namida]

Did you create a low-res version of the disarmer sprite? If so, let's try and get that one in to the upcoming NL12.7 update, or even possibly the upcoming styles update - that's something we can make use of right away. (Obviously, I'd prefer the low res one didn't have these cartoony details - I do like them, but all the other low-res sprites don't have them, so for the sake of consistency I feel they should be a feature only of the high-res ones.)

On a side note - before you get to these skills, there's a consideration that's come up in discussion for Diggers and Blockers - that we should have sprites that clearly indicate which direction they're facing, unlike the current ones which are basically symmetrical. I mention this because it makes more sense to do that the first time, rather than to have to redo them later for that. (This, in general, would extend to any state, other than animations that the lemming will no longer exist after completing, either because they die or because they exit; but of the existing ones, IIRC only those two, plus Disarmer which needs a new sprite anyway, has this issue. I guess Drowner too, as they can recover if you assign them a Swimmer, but that's such an obscure case that I don't think it needs a special effort for this.)

[WillLem]

Did you create a low-res version of the disarmer sprite? If so, let's try and get that one in to the upcoming NL12.7 update, or even possibly the upcoming styles update - that's something we can make use of right away. (Obviously, I'd prefer the low res one didn't have these cartoony details - I do like them, but all the other low-res sprites don't have them, so for the sake of consistency I feel they should be a feature only of the high-res ones.)

Done! (see attached) I've de-cartoonified it and also re-coloured it to be consistent with the other original NL sprites. Let me know your thoughts, it'd be great to see this as part of the next update!

On a side note - before you get to these skills, there's a consideration that's come up in discussion for Diggers and Blockers - that we should have sprites that clearly indicate which direction they're facing, unlike the current ones which are basically symmetrical. I mention this because it makes more sense to do that the first time, rather than to have to redo them later for that. (This, in general, would extend to any state, other than animations that the lemming will no longer exist after completing, either because they die or because they exit; but of the existing ones, IIRC only those two, plus Disarmer which needs a new sprite anyway, has this issue. I guess Drowner too, as they can recover if you assign them a Swimmer, but that's such an obscure case that I don't think it needs a special effort for this.)

After some deliberation on this, I finally came up with the idea of the Blocker holding a STOP sign (see attached). I didn't want it to be too different from the original, plus it needs to remain clear that the Blocker affects Lemmings on either side. So, it's basically the same animation but the Lemming is holding a sign in the same hand as the direction they're facing. It's a possible solution anyway, let me know what you think.

As for the Digger, are you thinking having a brand new sprite that faces each way? That could work, although again I'm not sure about straying too far from the original with the classic skills. I'll put this as a last priority if the discussion is still ongoing. Having said that, maybe seeing a sprite in action might swing the decision... I'll see how I get on with the others first.

- WillLem

[namida]

Ooh, I like that blocker sprite!

With the low-res disarmer - I have to ask, what are the brown pixels near his feet meant to be?

[WillLem]

Ooh, I like that blocker sprite!

With the low-res disarmer - I have to ask, what are the brown pixels near his feet meant to be?

It’s meant to be a tool belt, happy to remove it if you’d prefer. Glad you like the Blocker!

[namida]

Yeah, I do think without the belt would be better for the low-res sprites. (Hypothetically, it would be pretty cool for all sprites to have it once a lemming becomes a disarmer; but I also feel this would become too much effort - especially taking into account that anyone creating custom sprites would then need to follow suit. So I prefer to keep the low-res sprites pretty simple - but the high-res ones, yes, let's keep the cartoony look, it's really neat!)

[WillLem]

Yeah, I do think without the belt would be better for the low-res sprites. (Hypothetically, it would be pretty cool for all sprites to have it once a lemming becomes a disarmer; but I also feel this would become too much effort - especially taking into account that anyone creating custom sprites would then need to follow suit. So I prefer to keep the low-res sprites pretty simple - but the high-res ones, yes, let's keep the cartoony look, it's really neat!)

Interestingly, I had the same thought - maybe Lemmings should keep the yellow hat & hi-vis when they become a disarmer. But then I realised that all sprites would have to be edited to follow suit (no pun intended), so hmmm... maybe not at this stage!

Here's the low-res Disarmer sans belt

I've also done the Stacker; quick question regerding this one, Builder and Platformer - the WinLemm sprites include dark brown 2x8 pixel rectangles to represent the building blocks, but then these are recoloured in the actual game. How does in work in NL, can these blocks be recoloured according to the level type/style? And what is the exact pixel size of a Stacker's building block (in hi-res)?

Finally, I'm sending these over at the moment just so you can see the work that's being done and get some ideas about how you could implement hi-res; I'll probably go over them all again once they're finished just to make a couple of final tweaks before sending over a full pack of the final versions. For a start, I'm thinking each Lemming needs a little cowlick of green hair: the WinLemm sprites don't include this, so I'll want to make sure that's included in the final versions! Let me know if there are any details you'd like to include as well.

All best,

- WillLem

[namida]

I've also done the Stacker; quick question regerding this one, Builder and Platformer - the WinLemm sprites include dark brown 2x8 pixel rectangles to represent the building blocks, but then these are recoloured in the actual game. How does in work in NL, can these blocks be recoloured according to the level type/style? And what is the exact pixel size of a Stacker's building block (in hi-res)?

Yes, these can be recolored in NL. Just pick any color that isn't used for any part of the sprites that shouldn't be recolored, and use that for the builder bricks and destruction particles. To be clear, this color should (a) be the same between different sprites, ie: builder, stacker etc should have the same color for this as each other; and (b) it must not be used for shouldn't-recolor pixels anywhere in the spriteset, not just in these animations; but it is fine if something outside the spriteset (eg. terrain pieces) uses them.

I should have mentioned earlier: Ignore the "_mask.png" files that some sprites have in the existing NL sprites. These are what current versions use to do the recoloring of bricks / destructive particles, but this is changing in the future to the above setup. Therefore, using the unique-color approach will be the right way by the time NL has a high-res feature.

[WillLem]

I've also done the Stacker; quick question regerding this one, Builder and Platformer - the WinLemm sprites include dark brown 2x8 pixel rectangles to represent the building blocks, but then these are recoloured in the actual game. How does in work in NL, can these blocks be recoloured according to the level type/style? And what is the exact pixel size of a Stacker's building block (in hi-res)?

Yes, these can be recolored in NL. Just pick any color that isn't used for any part of the sprites that shouldn't be recolored, and use that for the builder bricks and destruction particles. To be clear, this color should (a) be the same between different sprites, ie: builder, stacker etc should have the same color for this as each other; and (b) it must not be used for shouldn't-recolor pixels anywhere in the spriteset, not just in these animations; but it is fine if something outside the spriteset (eg. terrain pieces) uses them.

I should have mentioned earlier: Ignore the "_mask.png" files that some sprites have in the existing NL sprites. These are what current versions use to do the recoloring of bricks / destructive particles, but this is changing in the future to the above setup. Therefore, using the unique-color approach will be the right way by the time NL has a high-res feature.

Understood; when I send you the finalised sprite pack I'll make sure all builder bricks and destruction particle colours are unique.

I've attached the final two custom skills: Shimmier and Fencer. Please note that with the Fencer, I've temporarily included a yellow line tracking the movement of the sword - this is just to show you how I've integrated the diagonally-upwards terrain removal behaviour of this skill (note that the sword hits its highest point above the Lemming's head and its lowest point around knee height). I'm hoping the movement of the sword fits with the current mask at least aesthetically; do let me know if any slight adjustments need to be made in this regard. The Lemming then jumps and lunges forward, allowing the Lemming to land one pixel up and however many pixels forward from its starting position.

So, to be clear, this yellow line will be removed from the final version as long as you're happy that the sprite correctly fits with the terrain removal outline/mask of the original Fencer sprite.

So... besides the sprites, is there anything else you'll need at this stage? I'm going to finish up the button set anyway just so that there are options (I still think "clickable" buttons would be best for a hi-res mode), and I'll make sure all other graphics are accounted for either in WinLemm or the Mac version. As far as I can tell, all the default ones are there. Custom graphics can be upscaled as well, but it might be worth doing this on a case-by-case basis.

-WillLem

[namida]

Lemming sprites are really the important thing here - sprites jumping back and forwards between low-res and hi-res during gameplay would be extremely jarring. On the other hand, while we should definitely provide high-res objects where applicable (I should be able to just directly rip these from WinLemm, so no worries there), I think it's okay if some end up falling back to low-res.

In regards to the fencer sprite - it's hard to say for sure without a real-world test, but it looks like it should be good.

[WillLem]

I've finished all default & custom sprites now, and made a few tweaks to get them just right. Couldn't wait to begin so I've started work on the Xmas Lemmings as well.

Here's the Xmas Blocker (L&R) as a taster for now

-WillLem

[namida]

I got around to implementing your low-res Disarmer sprite. It needed a couple of minor tweaks: the last few frames were 1 pixel too low compared to the others, and there were a few pixels where the color was slightly off. These were all minor, easily-fixed issues, and I can now confirm this sprite will be included for NeoLemmix V12.7.X. I also made Xmas versions of these sprites.

Here's your sprite in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YAjHPCRiNE
(This video was taken before I extended the change to the skill panel too - but that HAS been done now!)

[WillLem]

I got around to implementing your low-res Disarmer sprite. It needed a couple of minor tweaks: the last few frames were 1 pixel too low compared to the others, and there were a few pixels where the color was slightly off. These were all minor, easily-fixed issues, and I can now confirm this sprite will be included for NeoLemmix V12.7.X. I also made Xmas versions of these sprites.

Here's your sprite in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YAjHPCRiNE
(This video was taken before I extended the change to the skill panel too - but that HAS been done now!)

Thanks for posting this, this looks awesome!!! How are the other sprites, implementation-wise. Any adjustments needed?

I'll be shipping the hi-res Xmas sprites your way soon.

[namida]

Work on the high-res functionality, so far, has been limited to discussion and planning; I haven't done any actual coding yet - my work on NL lately has been focused on wrapping up the last few details in preparation for V12.7.0's stable release next week. However, as I've mentioned, high-res is one of the features I'm hoping to get in place for NL V12.8.X (expected stable release February 2020, with an RC build about a month before that).

[WillLem]

Here is the complete set of hi-res xmas sprites! I know you're not doing anything with these straightaway, but they're here. Feel free to have a gander and let me know if any changes need to be made.

-WillLem

P.S. All the best for the 12.7.0 release tomorrow! Looking forward to it

EDIT: I've made a couple of changes today (11/11) and re-uploaded the pack.

[namida]

To keep things tidy: Could you upload your entire set of high-res regular sprites as a ZIP? I want to look at starting to actually use these.

(If you've previously sent it to me via PM - could you upload it here? I receive a lot of PMs, so digging through them can be quite time-consuming.)

EDIT: Also, I notice the Xmas ones aren't complete yet (the new skills, and the bomber explosion, are missing). However, with what is there, here's a screenshot of them actually in-game. (There's a fair bit of fixing up needed for them to actually work 100% correctly, but this is definitely a start!)

[WillLem]

To keep things tidy: Could you upload your entire set of high-res regular sprites as a ZIP? I want to look at starting to actually use these.

(If you've previously sent it to me via PM - could you upload it here? I receive a lot of PMs, so digging through them can be quite time-consuming.)

EDIT: Also, I notice the Xmas ones aren't complete yet (the new skills, and the bomber explosion, are missing). However, with what is there, here's a screenshot of them actually in-game. (There's a fair bit of fixing up needed for them to actually work 100% correctly, but this is definitely a start!)

Sure thing, see attached.

I'll get the new-skills xmas sprites done as soon as I get the chance. The hi-res stuff you've posted is looking great btw!

[namida]

When doing the Xmas ones - could you try to make sure they line up properly with the existing graphics (when scaled to 200% via Nearest Neighbour)? They don't have to match in terms of which pixels are or aren't solid, but the overall shape should overlap.

Don't worry about adjusting the existing ones, I'll take care of that - it just makes my job easier if you do this for any new ones.

(If this is not possible to do due to needing extra size in one or both dimensions, please make it line up in the dimension you can do so in (if there is one) and let me know about the other one. I'll take care of the rest.)

[namida]

Okay so, I'm working my way through integrating these ones. I've done (in alphabetical order by your filenames) up to Glider, inclusive; as well as the Stoner terrain (but not the explosion). Most of these seem fine; but a few have issues of varying severity.

- Drowner. It doesn't make sense that the drowner would suddenly gain a snorkel, even for a "cartoony" feel. It's a good idea for the swimmer, but not for the drowner. I don't feel too strongly about this, so if most people like it, it can stay.
- Fencer. This one on the other hand, it's going to need to be re-done (or at least edited). Two issues with it - firstly, the position of the lance during the destruction frames is very far off from physics. Secondly, it lacks destruction particles. (The fact that it needs more horizontal space than the original allows for, when lined up correctly, is not a dealbreaker - I can adjust the low-res sprite's size / positioning to account for this.)
- Stoner (the actual stone, not the explosion). This needs to match up with physics a tad more - but this is an easy edit that I was able to make myself.

Will give comments on the rest when I've finished doing them - along with, most likely, some video footage of them in action.

EDIT: Only one issue among the rest that was noticable during preparing, and it was small enough that I could fix it myself - there was a bit of a mismatch between the two directions in the first frame of the miner. Now, time to get that video footage...

PS: When redoing the fencer, could you match this low-res graphic instead of the stable-version one? (This gives a little bit more room for you to work with horizontally.)

EDIT: Just to be clear; the Drowner (unless there's a strong general consensus in favor of the current sprite) and the Fencer are the ones that actually need attention. I've fixed the Miner and Stoner myself.

[namida]

I've implemented support for recoloring - without requiring any extra colors to be specified by styles that use recoloring. Instead, the lemming sprites themself specify which colors are to be treated as "shades" of other colors, and the rest happens automatically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI0En875kzs

The level is one I made specifically for the purpose of showing off this video; copy attached. I'll probably submit it to the NeoLemmix Community Pack; I don't intend to use it in Lemmings Plus due to the style.

I will probably adjust the sprite colors a bit so the originals are a tad closer (at least for the light shade parts) to the low-res colors; because that will have better results with the recoloring.

EDIT: Okay, what I'm finding is - I notice you're usually using two shades of each color - a light shade and a dark shade. The sprites will work much more nicely with the recoloring system if one of these is the same as the low-res color, and the other has the same hue and saturation (but different luminosity) - or at least extremely close.

With that being said - I'm going to finish tidying up these existing ones; may be best to hold off on any changes until I'm done with that, to avoid doubling-up work on either side? (The exception would be a new low-res digger sprite; feel free to go ahead with that one.)

[Strato Incendus]

The Blocker-direction sign looks quite nice! Does it look the same for the Digger?

[namida]

The Blocker-direction sign looks quite nice! Does it look the same for the Digger?

There's no change to the digger yet. Key word here is "yet" - it's hopefully going to happen (before V12.8.0's release), but just hasn't yet. The blocker sign is also high-res only (low res does have the "only turns his head to one side, instead of switching between both", but not the sign).

[namida]

Okay, so, I'm going through these paying really close attention now (watching them frame-by-frame etc), to iron out the remaining details. I'm fixing most stuff myself, but I'll note here anything that will need WillLem's attention - orange is minor issues, red is serious issues. (Green = no problems.)

Ascender - No problems.
Basher - During the 1st and 4th of the frames where terrain is removed, the lemming's hand probably needs to be slightly further forward.
Blocker - No problems.
Bomber - No problems.
Builder - No problems.
Burner - No problems.
Climber - No problems.
Digger - This one's getting a new sprite anyway; but an issue I noticed - the digger's arms extend too far downwards during the dig animation.
Disarmer - No problems.
Drowner - Earlier point about the snorkel still stands; otherwise no problems here.
Exiter - No problems.
Faller - No problems.
Fencer - Very poor match for physics. I think I've figured out the core "cause" of this - your sprite holds the lance much further forward from his body than the low-res ones.
Floater - No problems.
Glider - No problems.
Hoister - No problems.
Miner - No problems.
Ohnoer - No problems
Platformer - No problems.
Reacher - No problems.
Shimmier - The animation is very "jerky". I don't think this is as simple as shifting the frames left / right either.
Shrugger - No problems.
Stacker - No problems.
Stoner - No problems, for both sprites.
Swimmer - No problems.
Walker - No problems

I'll put up an update to the high-res experimental soon that includes the sprites in their current state, so you can use that as a starting point (and use it to test any new work). EDIT: It's up. You can find the lemming sprites in the "styles/default/lemmings-hr" folder. Note that I've slightly tweaked the colors from the ones you used, so they're more similar to the low-res colors - this is important to keep the recoloring for different styles (eg. the L2 ones) or situations (athletes, selected, etc) working nicely and producing good results; please try to stick to these colors for future sprites for the "default" style. Don't worry too much about colors on the Xmas sprites - I'll fix it up later. If you want to test out / etc your Xmas ones, create a similar folder; "styles/xmas/lemmings-hr".

[WillLem]

Basher - During the 1st and 4th of the frames where terrain is removed, the lemming's hand probably needs to be slightly further forward.

Digger - This one's getting a new sprite anyway; but an issue I noticed - the digger's arms extend too far downwards during the dig animation.

Drowner - Earlier point about the snorkel still stands; otherwise no problems here.

Fencer - Very poor match for physics. I think I've figured out the core "cause" of this - your sprite holds the lance much further forward from his body than the low-res ones.

Shimmier - The animation is very "jerky". I don't think this is as simple as shifting the frames left / right either.

I'll have a look at these as soon as possible and send some replacements over. I've been majorly busy recently but I should get some time to do these this week.

I've slightly tweaked the colors from the ones you used, so they're more similar to the low-res colors

I figured that might need to be done as the sprites were looking a bit orange, like Lemmings with fake tan! I'll use your colour scheme for future sprites.

-WillLem

[WillLem]

Hi Namida,

I've made the necessary adjustments to the following sprites:

Basher - frames 1 and 4: the arm/hand has come forward by 2 pixels. There is still a gap of about 1 pixel between the hand and the terrain in these frames, but it's the best compromise between fitting the mask and maintaining the smoothness of motion.

Digger - arms now don't extend down quite so much - I'm not sure what I was thinking when I drew these, must have been tired!

Drowner - removed the snorkel; you're right, it didn't really make sense. I still have the original with-snorkel sprite handy tho if anyone prefers it

Fencer - moved the upper body back by 2 pixels (the maximum possible) and shortened the lance by 2 pixels. The lance still extends into the terrain slightly further than the mask, but it's definitely a better fit than previously, and looks more convincing. I've also animated the Lemming's non-lance arm during the "jump" to make this look a bit better as well.

Shimmier - turns out this was just a case of moving the individual frames left and right to make sure that the hand that's grabbing the terrain remains stationary; I had to painstakingly work out how many pixels each frame needed moving by, but I got there in the end! Also moved the entire animation 2 pixels backwards L & R respectively because the 'final' hand was grabbing too far forwards from the edge of the terrain. Finally, tidied up the feet a bit as well. This is much better now, but I'm happy to take another look if you think any further improvements need to be made.

That's it for now, the only other thing I've noted is that the swimmer sprite appears a bit too high on certain types of water (most notably the creamy coloured water in the brick set). It looks fine on most of the other water types tho so not sure if it's worth bothering with. EDIT - I suppose it would be a case of reducing the size of the trigger area for that particular water type...?

I'll have a look at doing the L & R digger sprite soon as well. Let me know if there's anything else you need.

-WillLem

[namida]

That's it for now, the only other thing I've noted is that the swimmer sprite appears a bit too high on certain types of water (most notably the creamy coloured water in the brick set). It looks fine on most of the other water types tho so not sure if it's worth bothering with. EDIT - I suppose it would be a case of reducing the size of the trigger area for that particular water type...?

Yeah, this is an issue that occurs even in low-res. Not all water objects are best suited to Swimmers; that's just how it is, as some of them predate the Swimmer skill. We did recently have a discussion about whether fixes are needed to official object trigger areas, but ultimately only two objects got actual changes (with a couple more receiving graphical, but not physics, changes).

I'm not particularly worried about visual issues if they occur in low-res as well; those can either be left as-is, or addressed at some point in the future for both resolutions at the same time. For now, I'm only worried about high-res-exclusive issues (or if the high-res mode's addition has caused new issues in low-res).

[namida]

I've tried out these sprites now. The Basher, Digger, Drowner and Shimmier all look great now!

The Fencer is the only one that still doesn't feel right to me. I think that to really get this right, it needs to more closely mimic the pose of the low-res one (lance held by his side, not stretched out in front, in the opposite hand from what the high-res sprite does), but that would be a lot of work. Otherwise, for the lance to be in the correct spot, the feet would have to be way off (indeed, it's possible to make the lance work by instead having the feet really wrong, just by shifting the FOOT_X position in scheme.nxmi). Maybe see if anyone else has any thoughts?

( For those of you who want to see the Fencer sprite in action but don't want to set up the high-res experimental: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994bev-ukm8 )

In terms of "anything else", I think it's just the digger (and of course the Xmas sprites, if you're still up for doing those). Did you have a specific idea in mind for the digger? Keep in mind we need a low-res sprite too for this one - it's fine if the high-res one has some extra direction indicators that the low-res doesn't (like how the blockers in high-res also have the signs on one side or the other, but both resolutions have the limited head-turning), but there needs to be some clear indicator of direction that's present in both.

[WillLem]

I've tried out these sprites now. The Basher, Digger, Drowner and Shimmier all look great now!

Awesome

The Fencer is the only one that still doesn't feel right to me. I think that to really get this right, it needs to more closely mimic the pose of the low-res one (lance held by his side, not stretched out in front, in the opposite hand from what the high-res sprite does), but that would be a lot of work. Otherwise, for the lance to be in the correct spot, the feet would have to be way off (indeed, it's possible to make the lance work by instead having the feet really wrong, just by shifting the FOOT_X position in scheme.nxmi). Maybe see if anyone else has any thoughts?

Could the Fencer simply be positioned slightly backwards from its current spot? (or is this what you mean by shifting the FOOT_X position?) I've attached another version here with the non-lance arm resting on the Fencer's waist, which allows the entire Lemming to be moved back another 2 pixels within the animation. I also shortened the lance by another pixel. This is a more pleasing result in terms of it's correspondence with the mask, however now the feet are totally off-position! I think it's worth persevering with this though, because the hi-res version of the Fencer is just that bit more... Fencery!

( For those of you who want to see the Fencer sprite in action but don't want to set up the high-res experimental: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994bev-ukm8 )

Heads up - this video is appearing as a blank screen...!

In terms of "anything else", I think it's just the digger (and of course the Xmas sprites, if you're still up for doing those). Did you have a specific idea in mind for the digger?both.

I'm on the Xmas sprites - I'll try to get these to you by the end of the weekend. As for the Digger sprite, since this involves creating a completely new animation I want to make sure we have an idea we're happy with before I go ahead with this. So far, my ideas are:

1 Leave it as it is, but keep the Lemming's face pointing towards the direction they're facing throughout the animation rather than swishing left to right (I've attached a version of this for each resolution). I'd personally vote for this as the simplest and most elegant idea (similar to the blocker idea), and since it's the closest to the classic Digger sprite we all know and love.

2 Have the Lemming dig with their front paws rabbit-style, tossing the earth out backwards between their legs. A humorous idea that would be fun to animate, but isn't as downwardly-oriented as the motion of the Digger. Maybe this would work as a new diagonally-downwards skill instead...?

3 Have the Lemming pull out a spade and dig garden-style, putting their foot on the spade and then tossing out the earth behind them (they'd be facing in the direction they're moving). Again, would be fun to animate. My only issue with this idea is that it might not be as quick as the current Digger sprite, which moves at a fair old lick, and still look convincing.

I'm happy to try these and any other ideas that people might have, but tbh it'd be good to have a bit of a consensus on an idea before I begin work on it.

[namida]

1 Leave it as it is, but keep the Lemming's face pointing towards the direction they're facing throughout the animation rather than swishing left to right (I've attached a version of this for each resolution). I'd personally vote for this as the simplest and most elegant idea (similar to the blocker idea), and since it's the closest to the classic Digger sprite we all know and love.

This looks pretty workable to me, at least from looking at the spritesheets. I'll try them out in action later.

2 Have the Lemming dig with their front paws rabbit-style, tossing the earth out backwards between their legs. A humorous idea that would be fun to animate, but isn't as downwardly-oriented as the motion of the Digger. Maybe this would work as a new diagonally-downwards skill instead...?

That won't happen; it'd essentially just be a duplicate of the miner (even if it has some subtle differences, it's too similar overall). And especially for low-res, I prefer something that remains close to the original sprite.

Could the Fencer simply be positioned slightly backwards from its current spot? (or is this what you mean by shifting the FOOT_X position?) I've attached another version here with the non-lance arm resting on the Fencer's waist, which allows the entire Lemming to be moved back another 2 pixels within the animation. I also shortened the lance by another pixel. This is a more pleasing result in terms of it's correspondence with the mask, however now the feet are totally off-position! I think it's worth persevering with this though, because the hi-res version of the Fencer is just that bit more... Fencery!

Keeping the feet position - or rather, the overall position of the lemming's body (I've generally lined it up based on the middle pixel of the body, rounded towards the back where applicable) - is quite important too, IMO.

[namida]

Okay, so I've looked at them in-game.

Fencer - I think this is as good as we're going to get in terms of body / lance horizontal positioning. So we'll go with that. However, I think we need some minor slight changes to the "slash" animation. I think we need to insert a frame between the 3rd and 4th one with the lance even lower. Then, to compensate, we'd need to remove one frame, no earlier than the 7th one (or the 8th, after the new frame is inserted). If you watch the animation frame-by-frame (or even just in slow-motion) in NL, you should be able to see what I mean.

Digger - After actually watching this in-game, I don't feel this is noticable enough, in either resolution. I've attached my attempt at making something that I think should work well (only low-res, though) - what do you think about this? (Replace the files in styles/default/lemmings; the updated scheme is for foot positioning.) It could probably use some tidying up as well, the animation looks a bit weird at certain points, but the general idea is - it's as similar as possible (within my abilities... xD) to the normal one, but the lemming always throws the dirt behind the direction he's facing.

[WillLem]

Fencer - I think this is as good as we're going to get in terms of body / lance horizontal positioning. So we'll go with that. However, I think we need some minor slight changes to the "slash" animation. I think we need to insert a frame between the 3rd and 4th one with the lance even lower. Then, to compensate, we'd need to remove one frame, no earlier than the 7th one (or the 8th, after the new frame is inserted). If you watch the animation frame-by-frame (or even just in slow-motion) in NL, you should be able to see what I mean.

See attached - I've implemented this suggestion and the "slash" part of the animation does indeed look more convincing now. I've also moved the Lemming forward 1 pixel so that it doesn't appear so much to be floating in mid-air (although this is still somewhat of an issue due to the nature of the stance). I think this version is the best balance of all factors; I'm more than happy to revisit this sprite at a later date if necessary, we'll see what the general feedback is (or if anyone else wants to have a go at making some improvements).

Digger - After actually watching this in-game, I don't feel this is noticable enough, in either resolution. I've attached my attempt at making something that I think should work well (only low-res, though) - what do you think about this? (Replace the files in styles/default/lemmings; the updated scheme is for foot positioning.) It could probably use some tidying up as well, the animation looks a bit weird at certain points, but the general idea is - it's as similar as possible (within my abilities... xD) to the normal one, but the lemming always throws the dirt behind the direction he's facing.

I like this idea and it's certainly workable, buuut if I have to be 100% honest, I think at the moment I just prefer the original Digger sprite to any of the ideas we've discussed. Give me some more time with this one, I'll see what I can come up with.

Xmas sprites should hopefully be ready by the end of the weekend, I'll send them over as a pack.

I've also attached a version of the HR Blocker sprite with double the amount of frames. The intention here is to have the stop sign stay still a little bit longer between "twirls". What do you think?

[namida]

I like this idea and it's certainly workable, buuut if I have to be 100% honest, I think at the moment I just prefer the original Digger sprite to any of the ideas we've discussed. Give me some more time with this one, I'll see what I can come up with.

Strictly speaking I prefer the original too, but it's important that the direction is clearly visible on all - or at least, most - frames of the animation. This trumps any "keep the original" preference in this case, as a digger's direction is important. (Now on the other hand, the direction of an exiter or ohnoer for example isn't so important, so I don't really care if they don't clearly show their direction.)

I'll check the new sprites out later.

[WillLem]

Finished the new-skills hi-res Xmas sprites! - see attached.

I think these look pretty good; I've tested them in the experimental HR build. Do let me know if you'd like any improvements to be made.

I've also included the walker because I noticed that there was a stray white pixel in one of the frames - this has now been corrected!

Generally, with the HR stuff, these are the sprites I'll probably want to look at revisiting before the release of 12.8:

Digger - I'm sure we'll come up with something direction-wise. Another idea I had was to have the digger use a large pneumatic drill - this would be fairly easy to animate and could have the Lemming completely facing left or right. I've attached a still graphic of what this could look like. Thoughts?

Fencer - We've got it as good as it can be for now, but I'm sure I can do better. I'll have another look at this when I have some spare time.

Glider - I love the HR glider sprite, it was one of my favourites to make, buuut I'm thinking the overall shape of it needs to be improved slightly - it's appearing bigger than the other sprites and just looks a bit out of place. Again, its great for now but I'll revisit when I can.

Floater - it's a minor point, but is there any reason you don't want the red and white striped umbrella? I notice you've changed it back to yellow... I chose red and white since that's the colour scheme that appears on the cover art for Lemmings. Again, not a major issue because I suppose anyone that wants red and white can customise the sprite themselves if they so wish, but I just think it'd be good to offer it as the default option for HR.

Other than that, I'm really happy with all the other sprites and I think that 12.8 is going to look fantastic!

[namida]

Floater - it's a minor point, but is there any reason you don't want the red and white striped umbrella? I notice you've changed it back to yellow... I chose red and white since that's the colour scheme that appears on the cover art for Lemmings. Again, not a major issue because I suppose anyone that wants red and white can customise the sprite themselves if they so wish, but I just think it'd be good to offer it as the default option for HR.

Because the umbrella color is one of the things that alternate styles can recolor. For example, see l2_highland.

Regarding the alternate digger, two potential issues come to mind with the drill sprite.
a) How well does it work for low-res?
b) It's quite a significant change, so there'd need to be a pretty strong consensus in favor of it.

I'll try out the Xmas sprites and get back to you about them later.

[namida]

A quick look at the Xmas ones, I need to fix up some alignment issues etc with them. That's no problem - but I just don't feel like doing it right this second, so I'll give overall feedback on the Xmas ones later, still.

I did try out the new blocker and fencer. The fencer is definitely better, but still feels a bit awkward. I think part of the issue here is that the low-res animation is a bit awkward in the first place, too. We can consider changes to that (just as long as there are no changes to the physics) if needed. I really like the blocker!

Could you do the same thing with the Xmas blocker? While you're working on that - I also noticed that the blocker's candy cane looks like he's just moving it 90 degrees then back, rather than a full 360 degree spin - is that intentional? (FYI - We can change the frame count if needed, including that it can be different from the non-Xmas blocker's frame count, but please keep it a multiple of 8. I've attached a scheme.nxmi / blocker.png for low-res with 16 frames. It just duplicates the first 8 frames, follow this pattern if you need to go to 24 or 32 etc.)

I'm happy to (another time, though) sort out the issues with lining up the spritesheets, making the recoloring work, etc. However, if you feel like doing this - line the high-res sprites up with a 200% nearest-neighbour zoom of the low-res ones; and take a look at the $SHADES section in styles/default/lemmings/scheme.nxmi for how to get the recoloring to work - DON'T add extra $SPRITESET_RECOLORING entries, as that would mean extra $COLORS or $STATE_RECOLORING (as applicable) entries are needed on the other side too.

[WillLem]

I did try out the new blocker and fencer. The fencer is definitely better, but still feels a bit awkward. I think part of the issue here is that the low-res animation is a bit awkward in the first place, too. We can consider changes to that (just as long as there are no changes to the physics) if needed.

Happy to discuss/try out ideas on this; I'll keep thinking over it and see what I can come up with. If people are open to the idea of a completely different skill which has the exact same mask/destruction as the Fencer, there might even be the possibility of something that's easier to animate/looks better in both resolutions as well. Thoughts?

Could you do the same thing with the Xmas blocker? While you're working on that - I also noticed that the blocker's candy cane looks like he's just moving it 90 degrees then back, rather than a full 360 degree spin - is that intentional?

Good shout; I've now animated it as a full twirl and doubled up the sprites as per the normal HR blocker (see attached).

I'm happy to (another time, though) sort out the issues with lining up the spritesheets, making the recoloring work, etc. However, if you feel like doing this - line the high-res sprites up with a 200% nearest-neighbour zoom of the low-res ones; and take a look at the $SHADES section in styles/default/lemmings/scheme.nxmi for how to get the recoloring to work - DON'T add extra $SPRITESET_RECOLORING entries, as that would mean extra $COLORS or $STATE_RECOLORING (as applicable) entries are needed on the other side too.

I'm happy to do the re-aligning, but I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of recoloring... please can you clarify this?

[namida]

Happy to discuss/try out ideas on this; I'll keep thinking over it and see what I can come up with. If people are open to the idea of a completely different skill which has the exact same mask/destruction as the Fencer, there might even be the possibility of something that's easier to animate/looks better in both resolutions as well. Thoughts?

This would need to be its own topic, to draw enough attention to get community input. However - I'm open to this if enough people are okay with it.

I'm happy to do the re-aligning, but I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of recoloring... please can you clarify this?

Don't worry; leave it to me.

[namida]

Alright, I've had a look at the Xmas ones. Lined-up versions attached, along with needed changes to low-res sprites and scheme.nxmi. Color scheme should also be fixed, where applicable.

Blocker - candy cane's good, but the blocker still turns his head in both directions.
Digger - needs a directional animation, like the default style does.
Disarmer - I recolored this one a bit.
Miner - The first frame and last two frames had the same issue as one frame in the default sprites did, in that the left / right facing sprites were in slightly different poses which caused problems for lining them up (not to mention it can be confusing to players). I've fixed the first frame, but the last two frames are a bit trickier, so all I've done is a "dumb" move of the body to the correct position, without changing the arm positions / etc - it needs further work.
Shimmier - The frame starting at Y=264, and the one after it, it feels like quite a sudden jump between these two when watching this animating
Shrugger - I had to slightly shrink some of the frames vertically; it might need a few minor touchups

It's a known issue that there's glitches with the recoloring (for athletes, selected lemming, etc) on these sprites. This is a bug in NeoLemmix, not in the styles - my current theory is that it relates to rounding errors when calculating the color-shifts between colors that are marked as "shades" of each other.

[namida]

Just wondering - do you expect to get these done fairly soon? If so, I'll put off the V12.8.0-RC build until they're done. If you think it might be a while, that's fine - I'll just do the RC build with a note that the xmas sprites still need some touchups.

[WillLem]

Just wondering - do you expect to get these done fairly soon? If so, I'll put off the V12.8.0-RC build until they're done. If you think it might be a while, that's fine - I'll just do the RC build with a note that the xmas sprites still need some touchups.

Sorry for the delayed reply on this, I've been very busy over the holidays. I'll get on these as soon as I can and get them over to you in time for the 12.8 release - makes sense to get it all done in one package! Is there a rough deadline that you'd need these by in order for this to be achieved?

[namida]

It's no problem at all if you're busy - this is more just a "let me know so I can plan around it" thing.

I'm hoping to get V12.8.0-RC* released this weekend, but if you think you need a bit longer than that (but not too much) to get the sprites done, I'll delay it a bit. There's still a couple of bugs I need to fix as well, so the sprites aren't the only thing that would be holding this up.

The actual V12.8.0 stable release, which would be more important to have them ready for, would be sometime next month, preferably early next month.

* RC = release candidate. Kind of like a beta, I guess, but for the individual version rather than the product as a whole. It's intended to be a near-final build of the upcoming version, useable to prepare content or (hopefully) find those last few bugs.

[WillLem]

I'm hoping to get V12.8.0-RC* released this weekend, but if you think you need a bit longer than that (but not too much) to get the sprites done, I'll delay it a bit. There's still a couple of bugs I need to fix as well, so the sprites aren't the only thing that would be holding this up.

Might need until the next weekend if that's OK, so the 18th/19th - I can get them ready for then. I'll try and get some test versions done mid-week so we can look at possible improvements in time for the weekend.

The actual V12.8.0 stable release, which would be more important to have them ready for, would be sometime next month, preferably early next month.

No problem

-WillLem

[namida]

Yeah, that's fine. I'll aim to release the RC build next weekend then.

EDIT: I'll also add, they don't have to be perfect for the RC build. The closer they are, the better, but it's acceptable if they're not quite there yet. Again, the stable build is the one where it's more important.

I'd actually think - the directional digger anim might be the more important one here. We know (and can show off) roughly what the Xmas sprites will look like already - they just need a few minor tweaks to look their best. By comparison, IIRC we still just have my "throws dirt in one direction" digger sprite - I'm quite happy with the general idea of that one (though open to other ideas) but the animation could be much better I think.

[WillLem]

Here is an initial draft of the finalised xmas sprites, with the following addressed:

Blocker - the animation for only a half-head turn doesn't really work for the xmas style because of the hat swinging from left to right. Getting rid of this detail makes it feel a lot more static - could we leave this the way it is just for the xmas sprites?

Digger - haven't yet animated a directional animation for either default or xmas style. What's the feeling on the drill sprite? (attached)

Disarmer - not sure about the green hard hat & vest... if the Lemming in question has a permanent skill assigned then this sprite would be entirely green! I've changed this back to yellow hard hat & neon vest as per my personal preference, but obviously feel free to implement whichever version you wish.

Miner - I've straightened up the pickaxe on the penultimate frame, making the upstroke a bit smoother.

Shimmier - The swinging-arm movement between the two specified frames has been smoothed, and I've moved the Lemming's body & head back 2 frames whilst keeping the gripping-arm stationery. I've also tidied up the feet in a few of the frames as well. I think this is currently looking much better, but I might look at it again to make further improvements towards the end of the week.

Shrugger - Sorted out the affected frames, this now looks fine.

The "lemmings" folder contains updated low-res xmas sprites; I've added white trim to their hats and gowns, and coloured in the pickaxe, glider and umbrella handles. I've also implemented the above change to the penultimate frame of the miner to smooth it out, all the others are pretty much the same as the original sprites so they should be fine.

Any thoughts/suggestions, let me know!

-WillLem

[namida]

Blocker - Git suggests this file is unchanged from the previous version, is this correct? Regarding leaving it as is - for high-res sprites, I'd want to put this to a public vote, and my vote would be "no" but if the general vote is "yes" I could leave it as is. Remaining as-is is an absolute no-go for the low-res sprites, as it doesn't show direction, unless you've got an alternate idea here (and I don't feel that the side of the foot tap is visible enough, personally).

Disarmer - "if the Lemming in question has a permanent skill assigned then this sprite would be entirely green!" - Disarmer itself is a permanent skill, so the lemming will always have one assigned. The vest and hat (once recoloring bug is fixed - again, this is an NL bug, not a fault with your images) end up red in-game. My main issue with the yellow hat / neon vest is that they don't really have much of an Xmas-y feel to them IMO, perhaps there are other colors that fit better that do have such a feel? (Side note: Your sprite has slightly wrong shades of red, I think. But this is a very easy fix that I can handle if we decide to use this sprite.)

Miner - Looks good now!

Shrugger - Same here!

Shimmier - And here!


The drill-digger, this is another one that I'm not personally too keen on, but I could accept if the community as a whole prefers it. Do keep in mind that we need a suitable digger animation for low-res, too, and this shouldn't be too different (eg: if high-res is a drill digger, low-res shouldn't be digging with his hands; but it'd be perfectly fine - in fact, I'd expect this - that low-res wouldn't have the hard-hat / clothing, for example).


Regarding the low-res sprite changes - I quite like them personally, but I feel this too is something the community should have input on. I'll include your new sprites in the RC build, but if people generally don't like them, they'll be reverted to the existing ones for the stable release. If the overall opinion is neutral or positive, I'll keep your ones.

[WillLem]

Blocker - Git suggests this file is unchanged from the previous version, is this correct? Regarding leaving it as is - for high-res sprites, I'd want to put this to a public vote, and my vote would be "no" but if the general vote is "yes" I could leave it as is. Remaining as-is is an absolute no-go for the low-res sprites, as it doesn't show direction, unless you've got an alternate idea here (and I don't feel that the side of the foot tap is visible enough, personally).

Yes, it is unchanged for now. I definitely vote to leave the hi-res sprite as-is from a purely aesthetic point of view, others may feel differently so let's see how it develops. Just to confirm, the low-res sprite goes from middle to side.

Disarmer - "if the Lemming in question has a permanent skill assigned then this sprite would be entirely green!" - Disarmer itself is a permanent skill, so the lemming will always have one assigned. The vest and hat (once recoloring bug is fixed - again, this is an NL bug, not a fault with your images) end up red in-game. My main issue with the yellow hat / neon vest is that they don't really have much of an Xmas-y feel to them IMO, perhaps there are other colors that fit better that do have such a feel?

Fair shout, I'll give this some thought and see what I come up with. At least for now we have your green version if you feel that's best; and if it appears red in-game, that's probably fine!

Miner - Looks good now!

Shrugger - Same here!

Shimmier - And here!

Ace! Glad these are better now

The drill-digger, this is another one that I'm not personally too keen on, but I could accept if the community as a whole prefers it. Do keep in mind that we need a suitable digger animation for low-res, too, and this shouldn't be too different (eg: if high-res is a drill digger, low-res shouldn't be digging with his hands; but it'd be perfectly fine - in fact, I'd expect this - that low-res wouldn't have the hard-hat / clothing, for example).

Fancy opening this as a poll topic in the correct category? I would, but I'd probably end up pick the wrong category to post it in!

Regarding the low-res sprite changes - I quite like them personally, but I feel this too is something the community should have input on. I'll include your new sprites in the RC build, but if people generally don't like them, they'll be reverted to the existing ones for the stable release. If the overall opinion is neutral or positive, I'll keep your ones.

Brilliant, thanks for considering these.

Attached - I've also made the above changes for miner and shimmier to the default-hr sprites, and made a final version of the glider which I feel is a better relative size to the walker/faller sprites. Let me know what you think.

Cheers!

[namida]

Poll for Digger sprites (in general): https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4598.0
Poll for high-res Xmas Blocker sprite: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4599.0

We'll revisit Disarmer once the recoloring bug is fixed so we can get a proper in-game look at it. Again, it's not a huge deal if we don't settle on a final decision before the RC release - as long as we do settle on one before the stable release, and at least have some kind of proposal present in the RC release (which we now have two options for, so no problems there).

I'll take a look at these new updated sprites later.

[namida]

Regarding the new default sprites - the shimmier looks good, but the alignment issues (where the frames are incorrectly positioned inside the PNG file) have resurfaced for the Glider and Miner, and I don't really feel like correcting these all over again - especially right now, given I have a few code-related issues to deal with before the RC release, which I'm hoping to have ready this coming weekend. I'm happy to use the new ones if someone else corrects their positioning, as there's nothing else wrong with the graphics themself, just this technical issue with the positioning of the frames inside the PNG file. If you're not sure what I mean by this - test them in-game (using the exp build) and you'll see. You could use the previous images as templates to line them up correctly.

[WillLem]

Regarding the new default sprites - the shimmier looks good, but the alignment issues (where the frames are incorrectly positioned inside the PNG file) have resurfaced for the Glider and Miner, and I don't really feel like correcting these all over again
...
If you're not sure what I mean by this - test them in-game (using the exp build) and you'll see. You could use the previous images as templates to line them up correctly.

I have several different versions of each sprite due to the work I've been doing on them. If you can send over the correctly-lined-up versions, I'll get on this straightaway.

[namida]

Here's the current images.

On a side note, it looks like the polls are quite in favor of the 90 degree blocker head turn and the throw-to-side digger rather than the drill one.

[WillLem]

Here's the current images.

On a side note, it looks like the polls are quite in favor of the 90 degree blocker head turn and the throw-to-side digger rather than the drill one.

Great, thanks for these. Yeah, I've seen the poll results so far - no shame in being completely outvoted!

I'll get to work on the 90 degree blocker head turn and these sprites for now, and then I'll have a look at getting a new digger sprite sorted by the end of the week. I'm still generally in favour of keeping it as close to the original sprite as possible, so I'll see if I get any eureka moments in the meantime!

[namida]

I posted a possible low-res sprite for it somewhere (but rather than leave you to dig it up, attached again to this post). The animation could be a lot better, but I think this general idea should work for both resolutions.

Not sure off-hand if this works as-is in game or if it needs modifications to scheme.nxmi. Attached the current scheme.nxmi just in case.

[WillLem]

I posted a possible low-res sprite for it somewhere (but rather than leave you to dig it up, attached again to this post). The animation could be a lot better, but I think this general idea should work for both resolutions.

Not sure off-hand if this works as-is in game or if it needs modifications to scheme.nxmi. Attached the current scheme.nxmi just in case.

That works! I'll give both versions a proper look tomorrow.

[namida]

Here's how the existing xmas Disarmer sprite (with the PNG file having a green hat and vest) ends up looking in-game with the recoloring bug fixed, due to the fact that a Disarmer always has athlete coloring. Not bad, I reckon.

I did have to make a few further touchups to the exact shades used, as well as a slight tweak to scheme.nxmi to properly recolor the dark green. No point attaching these though as the existing experimental for high-res has the recoloring bug - instead, we'll look at any further touchups (perhaps with some feedback from the general userbase) once the RC build is out.

Regarding the new low-res Xmas sprites - do you think you could adjust the Platformer and Stacker to look more like their non-Xmas equivalents too, specifically in terms of pose / movement? See: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4566.0
(This is NOT a problem unique to your new sprites; the existing low-res Xmas sprites have this issue too.)

[WillLem]

Here's how the existing xmas Disarmer sprite (with the PNG file having a green hat and vest) ends up looking in-game with the recoloring bug fixed, due to the fact that a Disarmer always has athlete coloring. Not bad, I reckon.

Agreed! This looks great - very Christmassy. I see what you mean now, this is perfect.

Regarding the new low-res Xmas sprites - do you think you could adjust the Platformer and Stacker to look more like their non-Xmas equivalents too, specifically in terms of pose / movement? See: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4566.0
(This is NOT a problem unique to your new sprites; the existing low-res Xmas sprites have this issue too.)

My versions were basically the existing low-res ones but with added white trim. I've now recoloured the default non-Xmas low-res sprites for these skills - I've not tested them in-game but they should be fine as they're exactly the same as the existing default sprites, they've just been recoloured X-mas style.

I've also attached the amended HR miner & glider sprites - I've matched these up to the correct positions now so these should be fine.

Finally, I've included a hi-res version of your new digger sprite. I made the same basic adjustments to the original that you made in order to create the new single-sided motion, including the outer arm throwing the dirt across the Lemming's body to the opposite side - I think this as elegant solution and looks pretty good.

Let me know your thoughts, I'm free this evening to make any additional changes and I'll be on the forum.

[namida]

Low-res platfomer / stacker look mostly good to me. The only thing that doesn't is the green pixel in the low-res platformer at the front of the hat; I think that should stay in one place, or at least not be as bouncy.

High-res glider and miner are great now!

5th frame in the high-res digger animation doesn't fit well - try it in-game using the high-res experimental and you'll see what I mean. Basically, it looks like the lemming's left arm* (or right arm, in the left-facing animation) suddenly jumps to a different position for one frame. Also, the positioning in the PNG is slightly off, and the destruction particles should be RGB 255, 0, 255 (they'll then be recolored by NeoLemmix during gameplay to the appropriate color for the style). These things aside, looks good!

* from the lemming's point of view, not the player's

I've attached a version that fixes the positioning and the particle color, but it doesn't fix the 5th frame - that's something that you'll do a much better job of than I could.

We also need Xmas versions of both resolutions - and then I think that's the high-res / directional sprites finished (pending feedback during the RC phase, of course).

[WillLem]

Low-res platfomer / stacker look mostly good to me. The only thing that doesn't is the green pixel in the low-res platformer at the front of the hat; I think that should stay in one place, or at least not be as bouncy.

Haha! I've sorted this out now, should be better.

5th frame in the high-res digger animation doesn't fit well - try it in-game using the high-res experimental and you'll see what I mean.

Sorted this out, looks a lot better.

We also need Xmas versions of both resolutions - and then I think that's the high-res / directional sprites finished (pending feedback during the RC phase, of course).

Done and done. And I've done the xmas blocker with 90 degree head turn as well!

All attached, let me know if there's anything else but I think that's it, sprite-wise.

What's happening with regards to terrain/objects? Are you using the magic upscaler for these?

[namida]

I made some slight tweaks (positioning / the exact shades of red) to both resolution xmas diggers and the high-resolution xmas blocker. Here's the modified versions.

I think this is all - these should be good to go now!

In terms of high-res graphics for normal styles - the upscaler does a pretty good job, so I'm in no particular rush to get these done. However, Nessy will be in charge of collecting / selecting submissions for this, we'll go into more detail about this once the RC build is out.

[WillLem]

I made some slight tweaks (positioning / the exact shades of red) to both resolution xmas diggers and the high-resolution xmas blocker. Here's the modified versions.

I think this is all - these should be good to go now!

In terms of high-res graphics for normal styles - the upscaler does a pretty good job, so I'm in no particular rush to get these done.

I would agree that the upscaler is the way to go. I particularly like the look of it, it gives everything a nice squishy texture and visual warmth. It would also obviously save a lot of editing work, and existing custom lo-res graphics sets wouldn't have to be updated. There seems to be a lot of benefits to doing it this way...

[NieSch]

I only just now played the game in high resolution. It looks amazing. Great work!

[WillLem]

I only just now played the game in high resolution. It looks amazing. Great work!

Thank you! (taking credit for the sprites here, Namida obviously did all the actual work as far as 12.8 is concerned!)

[namida]

Don't underestimate how huge a task the sprites are. Of course coding is a significant task too, but I can guarantee that sprites would not have happened (they'd have just been upscaler-based placeholders at best) if it was left to me alone.

[WillLem]