Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack  (Read 6952 times)

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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2019, 02:03:43 am »
And now finishing off the rest of the rank...

(Note: Since none of the levels I haven't done yet were included in the changelog, I didn't redownload.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Aside from the level-specific feedbacks, I wonder if there should be a level or two gap between a tutorial level and the practice level that uses what it taught? Enough that the player has to think more than "what did the immediately previous level teach me?", but recent enough that it's still fairly fresh in the player's mind.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2019, 01:58:15 pm »
Alright, here are my answers:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As I completely forgot a basic trick (Builder Walls), the fencer+builder case should be trained and I was already unsure to place digger stircases in advanced, the Basic Training rank will get 5 additional levels!

So new plan for additional levels:

Basic training:
- Precise Digger/Miner/Basher top-down Staircases
- Builder blocks
- Fencer+Builder Training
+ 2 more

Advanced Training:
- Miner+Platformer,Basher+platformer staircases
- Basher through parallel builders
- Stoner+Stacker step-up
- Digger assignments at the last moment before he falls
- Basher staircases without builders/walkers. 3 parts: 1) Block+Bomb. 2) Block+Dig+Bash/Dig+Block+Bash. 3) Without a crowd and 2 bashers: Block+Dig+Block+Bash
+ X

As for fixes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2019, 07:13:07 pm »
V 0.10 is out!

Following changes have been made based on namida's feedback:

- 3 16 Added another diagonal drop.
- 3 17 The walker is now a pick-up skill, RR locked and lowered.
- 3 22 Preview text had been made clearer.
- 3 23 A lot of skills are now pick-ups to greatly lower entropy.
- 3 24 Enforced the builder canceling.
- 3 25 The miner is now a pick-up skill to block a backroute.

New levels based on the plans I posted before will be coming when they are ready. :)    Better save replays by level name and not by position as quite a few position switches will be happening.

Online WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2019, 09:13:21 pm »
Really enjoying this pack so far, learning a lot about NeoLemmix's capabilities. The level I've just played (Objects & Functions 7 - Pick Them Up And Push Them Down) has come as a bit of a revelation as I've been thinking it would be good to pick up skills in-level whilst designing my current pack, and now I know it's possible in NeoLemmix!

(Incidentally, since a lot of the new features (splitters, buttons, item pick-ups) will need hi-res graphics (and possibly even animations for walkers that meet them for the first time), I'm happy to do these as well when the time comes.)

I've attached my replays so far. I'm a bit stuck on the current level (O&F 8 - Split And Splat) as it's not clear exactly how to stop the splitter from working, or turn the Lemmings around...

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2019, 10:03:42 pm »
Thanks for the feedback. :)

Quote
I've attached my replays so far. I'm a bit stuck on the current level (O&F 8 - Split And Splat) as it's not clear exactly how to stop the splitter from working,

Will add to the introduction text then that splitters can't be deactivated. They will always work.

Quote
or turn the Lemmings around...

Well, you have 1 type of skill. ;)   Try to remember the skill introduction level for that one. Also you can loose a bunch of lemmings, 100% isn't nessesary.


I plan to release 5 new levels for rank 3 hopefully this week. Will add the splitter info from above with that patch too. :)


Online WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2019, 12:07:48 pm »

Quote
or turn the Lemmings around...

Well, you have 1 type of skill. ;)   Try to remember the skill introduction level for that one. Also you can loose a bunch of lemmings, 100% isn't nessesary.

Aha - got it, thanks!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looking forward to the new levels!

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2019, 07:56:21 pm »
V 0.11 is out!

The zip file is now inteded to be extracted right inside the main NL folder! Inside the zip is a "levels" folder first and then the pack's folder as a result.

Following changes have been made based on Willem's feedback:

- 2 08 Added the pre-text info that splitters can't be deactivated.

Following levels have been added:

- 3 05 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)
- 3 07 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)
- 3 08 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)
- 3 21 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)
- 3 27 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)

The level count for rank 3 is now 30 as a result. :)

Online WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2019, 11:45:22 pm »
Am I missing something on Gravity Lab...??? I can't seem to figure this one out at all.


Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2019, 02:47:44 pm »
Am I missing something on Gravity Lab...??? I can't seem to figure this one out at all.

Did you catch the following things from the pre-text (if not then it might be written more clearly):

- Updrafts prevent Lemmings from splatting.
- Updrafts slow the fall of lemmings and especially floaters.
- Updrafts cause gliders to glide upwards.

- Splat-pats let non floater/glider lemmings splat if they fall on it.
- Anti-splat pads prevent lemmings from splatting.

Please, if you think some of the points above is not made clear in the text tell me!

For the level:

To show all these interactions I gave 3 lemmings, 1 glider and 1 floater. So you can have 1 normal lemming, 1 glider and 1 floater.
Now you should figure out who needs to be who, if that's right the level should nearly solve itself.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2019, 07:06:54 am »
Quote
- Splat-pats let non floater/glider lemmings splat if they fall on it.

English mistake here - Splat-pads "make" them splat. "Let" in this context has the meaning of "allow", not "cause" or "force". (Although the opposite case - "Antisplat pads let lemmings survive" - is fine. I don't know the theory behind why this one is okay, it's just a "as a native speaker I know this is fine" situation.)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2019, 01:57:00 pm »
V 0.12 is out!

Little 12.7.0 update here as well:

- 2 10 has now an anti-splat pad and I fixed the error namida pointed out.


Rank 2 will be getting a neutral lemmings introduction level with the next bigger content-adding patch.  :)

The levels have not been cleansed yet, due to the current bug. ;P

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2019, 07:19:26 pm »
V 0.13 is out!

Levels cleansed.

Level folder renamed! It contains now "_" instead of " ", due to naming conditions.  Please delete the old level folder of this pack to properly update.

Online WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2019, 02:22:22 pm »
Hi IchoTolot,

Here are my replays for the Skills / Objects & Functions ranks. I'll start on the Basic one soon and get those over as well.

Feedback so far (hopefully this will be useful as I am very much a NeoLemmix beginner):

The pack is generally very enjoyable to play through, presenting some challenges of normal difficulty whilst teaching the skills - the pack does a very good job of this and I already feel more at home with NeoLemmix just after these two ranks.

The O&F 11 & 12 pre-screens specify "(None)" as the hotkey for the various tasks; I'm sure this is something you're aware of and will get around to changing, but just a heads-up anyway.

I did find one or two of the levels very difficult to find the solution for, in spite of their simplicity.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With levels that introduce a completely new concept or object (pickups, buttons, splitters, teleporters, limited-number entrances & exits), it may be an idea to make them as basic as possible - like, first few levels of Fun basic. Just showing the player what the item does, but not in the context of a puzzle just yet. Or, present the item first in a simple set-up level, and then have a puzzle level straight afterwards (this would obviously increase the number of levels...). Just an idea, and one I'm sure you have already considered. If you were to leave it as is, it's totally fine and perfectly enjoyable for any decent Lemmings player. But if the idea is to welcome in complete beginners, then presenting the new stuff in the same manner as the skills themselves may be worthwhile...

Levels I particularly enjoyed were: O&F11 Stop, Rewind and Go, 13 Getting Into Sorting and 15 Night of the Living Lems. These were all my kinda puzzles ;P They do a great job of keeping things simple but challenging whilst also easing the player into new concepts such as limited-number entrances & exits, multitasking in pause mode and... Zombie Lemmings! :lem-mindblown:

Enjoy the replays, I'll get the Basic ones over to you at some point soon-ish.

Best regards,

-WillLem 8-)




Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2019, 05:33:10 pm »
Thanks for the replays, I see no backroutes here. :)

Comments:

Quote
The O&F 11 & 12 pre-screens specify "(None)" as the hotkey for the various tasks; I'm sure this is something you're aware of and will get around to changing, but just a heads-up anyway.

I have no influence on that one. Which hotkey layout did you choose with the installation? These layouts should cover the hotkeys mentioned here otherwise point these missing ones out to namida, together with the layout you chose.
You can also assign them manually in the hotkey menu.

Quote
With the former, since it's not possible to save all the Lemmings it kind of gives the splitter object a bad first impression.

It is possible to save everyone, indeed my replay does so, but a point of the levels is to show the player that loosing lemmings is indeed alright. In this level you can loose a third of the crowd and the player should feel empowered to do so. The save requirement is not 100% for a reason, new players should loose lemmings here.
I can lower the save requirement if you advice, but losses should be expected. Players must learn and get used to let lemmings go.

Quote
With levels that introduce a completely new concept or object (pickups, buttons, splitters, teleporters, limited-number entrances & exits), it may be an idea to make them as basic as possible - like, first few levels of Fun basic. Just showing the player what the item does, but not in the context of a puzzle just yet. Or, present the item first in a simple set-up level, and then have a puzzle level straight afterwards (this would obviously increase the number of levels...). Just an idea, and one I'm sure you have already considered. If you were to leave it as is, it's totally fine and perfectly enjoyable for any decent Lemmings player. But if the idea is to welcome in complete beginners, then presenting the new stuff in the same manner as the skills themselves may be worthwhile...

Well, these should be the very basic cases which still cover every aspect mentioned.
For the gravity level for example here is my creation thinking process: I covered all 3 instances of updraft interactions: Normal, floater, glider. The only puzzle should be in which order the 2 permanent skills must be assigned to the 3 lemmings, this is also hinted at inside the pre-text. The 2 builders 100% have to cover the water pit and the splatpad there is no alternative, as otherwise the level is always impossible and not all lemings can go towards the exit. The 1 fencer has to be for the last pillar.

Online WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2019, 02:16:34 pm »
Quote
The O&F 11 & 12 pre-screens specify "(None)" as the hotkey for the various tasks; I'm sure this is something you're aware of and will get around to changing, but just a heads-up anyway.

I have no influence on that one. Which hotkey layout did you choose with the installation? These layouts should cover the hotkeys mentioned here otherwise point these missing ones out to namida, together with the layout you chose.
You can also assign them manually in the hotkey menu.

Ah - is this set to automatically assign whichever key the user has specified as the hotkey to the text? In that case, this makes sense as I've assigned time-skipping duties to mouse clicks (L-forward 1 frame/R-backward 1 frame) rather than keys. Would this explain the issue?