Author Topic: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)  (Read 6500 times)

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Offline Strato Incendus

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Thanks, I can give it a try! :thumbsup:
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline namida

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Thanks, I can give it a try! :thumbsup:

...and now that I think about it, if you're wanting to do an entire image, there's an even easier way - use the flood tool. Again, needs antialiasing turned off and tolerance low or zero; then also change the flood mode from "continguous" to "global". Then, select the new color, click a pixel of the old color; repeat for each color.

(Antialiasing isn't labelled with a name, only an icon. The icon is the curvy line with three dots on it, which turns to a more rough line when antialiasing is disabled.)

For the record, unless you specifically choose to save them, these tool options don't get saved when you exit Paint.NET, so you don't need to worry about remembering the defaults to change back.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Shimmiers added to Machine)
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2019, 08:57:13 pm »
Okay, Nessy apparently took care of the L2 Highland and Shadow Shimmier sprites already! :thumbsup: So I only had to do the Machine Shimmier and Reacher sprites.

Thanks to namida for explaining the Paint.Net use to me!

Apparently no-one used the Machine sprites? Because the thread for the "bug" of missing Shimmier sprites was closed without Machine ever being mentioned, however my latest download of the style folders did not feature Shimmiers. I guess nobody noticed because the theme still selected default lemmings as the sprites, despite at the same time providing a folder with the machine sprites, but missing the Shimmier.

Anyways, now they're here, and so I hope Nessy's Machine sprites get a little more love... :P It seems they might just have been forgotten otherwise, with everyone believing Machine was just using regular sprites.

EDIT: Name changed to "nessy_machine", new download provided in my post below. ;)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 09:13:27 am by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline namida

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2019, 09:14:28 pm »
namida_machine does not, or at least should not, contain custom lemming sprites. They need to be under a different name, as does any theme file that points to them. I recall that custom sprites for it got included by accident with one version of the styles download; this should have been removed subsequently?

If nothing is actually using them, there's even less reason to keep them where they are. Move them under the actual author's name, while there's still nothing using them.

Offline Nessy

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2019, 09:54:29 pm »
I wish to completely remove the machine/grayscale lemming sprites from this thread and have them no longer available anywhere. When I made them I didn't think it would be a big deal but now I realized that I might have overstepped without meaning to so I just want them out.

Sorry... but yeah I would like to focus on the L2 stuff since that's official :)

Offline namida

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2019, 09:59:11 pm »
Before creating any further ones, take a look at this topic: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4342.0

It relates to a proposed feature that might simplify things for doing the remaining L2 sprites, since they're all (as far as I'm aware) recolors anyway.

Offline Proxima

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2019, 10:41:13 pm »
I wish to completely remove the machine/grayscale lemming sprites from this thread and have them no longer available anywhere. When I made them I didn't think it would be a big deal but now I realized that I might have overstepped without meaning to so I just want them out.

That seems a bit drastic, since they are very nice. Now, I don't really understand how custom lemming sprites work in NL, since I've never used them myself; I don't see any way to select custom lemming sprites in the level editor, so I guess they are associated with a style and (if present) will be used for all levels in that style? In that case, the Machine sprites obviously shouldn't be associated with Machine in the default download (since it's namida's style and he doesn't want that), but I don't see the harm in keeping them available for users to decide whether they want to install them?

Offline namida

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2019, 10:55:00 pm »
Quote
That seems a bit drastic, since they are very nice. Now, I don't really understand how custom lemming sprites work in NL, since I've never used them myself; I don't see any way to select custom lemming sprites in the level editor, so I guess they are associated with a style and (if present) will be used for all levels in that style? In that case, the Machine sprites obviously shouldn't be associated with Machine in the default download (since it's namida's style and he doesn't want that), but I don't see the harm in keeping them available for users to decide whether they want to install them?

They're selected at the theme level. In turn, the theme will generally correspond to the primary style of the level, although nothing enforces this. So for example, if you were to select "Xmas" as the theme for a level, you'd get the Xmas sprites. A custom style's theme file can point to any style for lemming sprites, be this its own, "default", or a third style (but this cannot be chained - if "style1" refers to "style2" for lemming sprites, "style2" must actually have lemming sprites; it cannot in turn refer to "style3").

This is why even if the sprites are in namida_machine, they don't get used for such levels; because namida_machine's theme file points to "default" for lemming sprites.

Offline Proxima

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2019, 11:05:43 pm »
I see. But there's nothing stopping the end user modifying the theme file for themselves; that's always going to be possible when everything is split up into text-only files.

Offline namida

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2019, 11:10:15 pm »
That's absolutely correct - users can do so freely; if they wished, they could modify namida_machine's theme file to point to nessy_machine for lemming sprites. Likewise, nessy_machine could contain a theme file identical to namida_machine, except that it points to nessy_machine instead of default for lemming sprites. All of that is fine - just as long as it's being done as a user modification or "3rd-party" modification, or a distinct style, and not shipping as if it were an official part of namida_machine in any way.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2019, 08:36:31 am »
Yes, I remember there being objections about Machine lemmings on namida's part. Indeed, I just shared the modified version here as an optional "mod" for any player who likes to use them.

Of course, we can put them into nessy_machine - that would probably not be a style of its own, though, I guess? Since we're trying to avoid duplicate terrain pieces etc., and Nessy wasn't the one who created the graphic set either. So it would be a style that only contains a "lemmings" folder, plus a "theme" file.

My Egyptian lemmings fall into a similar category: They are not a contribution to another user's style, but they're a modification of what L2 Egyptian lemmings would actually look like.

I'm fine with the official, download-included sprites for L2 Egyptian being the L2 recoloured ones, and then my sprites will remain available in this thread for anyone who wants to swap them out. Everyone who wishes to do so, including me, will probably have to re-download or re-extract my Egyptian lemmings again after every update, though, because of course, if you just unpack the entire styles folder, the Egyptian lemmings will be overwritten every time.

But I'm used to doing that from the Magic Set Editor - a software created for designing custom Magic: The Gathering card sets. One template added an extra colour (Purple), and at some point in time the community swapped out the card frame and mana symbols for that. I always preferred the old ones, so I had them as a backup, and then had to re-insert them into their respective folders after every update. :D

Based on that experience, though, I'd like to keep as many alternatives available for players to choose based on individual taste. Not like "one is the official thing that eveyone is encouraged to use, and the other thing is the somewhat 'illegal' variation that maybe some random guy still has on his computer, so you have to ask that specific person to get it" etc. :evil:

Since this is merely about aesthetics and replacing image files, a player using different sprites for their individual play experience shouldn't mechanically affect any levels they build or play, as long as the way the sprites are named is consistent.

It's basically no difference to people who use the custom edits of the ONML tilesets (I've seen the slightly "soft-edged" versions of both Brick and Bubble in YouTube Let's Plays several times now).

So, how do we go about this? Do we agree on simply calling this "nessy_machine" and making it a separate "style" that only includes lemmings sprites, rather than any actual terrain or objects? ;)
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline namida

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2019, 09:00:41 am »
I see no problem with a style containing only a theme and lemming sprites. We already have the Xmas style, which has no terrain (though it does have objects).

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2019, 09:16:25 am »
Great, then! I've deleted the namida_machine download from my preceding post, renamed the ZIP archive and the style to nessy_machine and deleted all the terrain, objects, and backgrounds. Only lemmings plus the theme file remaining.

To the two people who have downloaded my namida_machine update in the meantime: Please delete the custom sprites from that folder, and if you want to continue to use these sprites with the namida_machine tileset, simply open the theme-file in the namida_machine folder in Editor, Notepad etc. and point it to "nessy_machine" instead.

(And, of course, I'll have to do the same for my namida_machine folder as well.) ;)
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2019, 11:02:00 am »
Now that re-colouring has been implemented, I just wanted to quickly ask what happened to my custom Egyptian sprites, or rather, how to re-introduce them? ;)

The L2 Egyptian tileset now obviously has the standard Egyptian sprites from L2. I haven't checked the L3 Egyptian tileset yet, but I doubt my custom sprites would be added to any other of the official tilesets.

If no other style can host them, I'd be happy to simply include them with my strato_generalmd set of special graphics. I'd just need to know how to adapt the sprites (see my post on the first page of this thread) to the new re-colouring scheme. ;)

I'd like to have them back, among others, for my Lemmings World Tour level "Diggas in Paris"... for obvious word-play reasons... :D This in general is another mark in favour of the New-Formats version of the pack: The ability to use a greater variety of sprites, rather than just Default and X-Mas.
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline namida

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Re: [New Formats] Custom Lemmings Sprites (New: Egyptian Lemmings by Strato)
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2019, 04:52:44 pm »
Take a look at the theme.nxmt file in a style that uses recoloring (NOT one that uses outright custom sprites like Xmas - so your best bet is the L2 styles, or arty_underwater).

If you're wondering "what's the right keyword for {so-and-so}", take a look at the "scheme.nxmi" file in styles/default/lemmings.

I think with the above pointers you should be able to work out the rest (it's pretty simple), but feel free to ask here or on Discord if you still have further questions.