Something in progress - No name yet

[Pieuw]

Hello there

I haven't posted in a while but I still come around regularly to read stuff. It's great that this Lemmings sanctuary is still active after all these years!

I wanted to let you know that Dodochacalo and I have been working on a collaborative Lemmini pack for quite some time now... *cough* two years *cough* and, for various reasons, we're making reaaaaally slow progress. We made about 20 levels each (yep, very slow).

We used to test each other's levels, but Dodo hasn't been around for a while and I have a bunch of mine left untested. So I was thinking I could ask here if someone would be interested in testing / backrouting / tearing apart some levels. Then I could move on and I guess it would be motivating not to be alone on this.

Ok so that's it. Maybe I'll add some screens in the future to make the topic more... welcoming

Happy holidays everyone!


===== Edit 11/14/22 =====

I attached a few levels as a mini demo.

Paucity



It's the first level I made for the project so I think it's a good starter! This one is on the easy side but as the title suggests the skills here are a bit scarce.


Forbidden Friendship



A two lemmings puzzle, one of my favorite kind of levels


Viaduc Caduc



I attached this one mostly to collect opinions on its solution. When I sent it to Dodo he had a mixed reaction, something about the solution bugged him so I'm not sure what to think about it. To me it honestly doesn't feel far-fetched at all I'm curious to know what people think about it. It may very well seem vanilla for the custom scene.


More to come in the future!

[namida]

Lemmini doesn't enjoy much popularity these days, it'd be well worth considering use of NeoLemmix or at least SuperLemmini instead (Icho wrote a tutorial on converting levels, and you're always welcome to ask for help).

Either way though, it's great to hear an old member coming back to level design, especially one who's levels are as highly-regarded as yours and dodo's!

[Simon]

Warmly encourage Dodo to make an account here!

-- Simon

[IchoTolot]

Even though I abandoned Lemmini a while ago, for the people who got me into playing custom stuff I could get myself through some testing. I could even help with a conversion again

But the next months will be kind of stressful for me so don't expect quick results!

[Pieuw]

Lemmini doesn't enjoy much popularity these days, it'd be well worth considering use of NeoLemmix or at least SuperLemmini instead

Well, we started like 2 years ago and at the time we chose Lemmini by default. I'm totally open to conversion, though I'm not used to build levels for NeoLemmix. I'll have to talk to Dodo about it but he's really not into Lemmings for now (busy life).

Warmly encourage Dodo to make an account here!

If only! I'd have to encourage him to continue his levels first

Even though I abandoned Lemmini a while ago, for the people who got me into playing custom stuff I could get myself through some testing. I could even help with a conversion again

But the next months will be kind of stressful for me so don't expect quick results!

Thank you Icho, nothing about this project is quick so there's no rush If Lemmini is really dead then I'll have to convert the levels to NeoLemmix before asking for your help. This may be the best thing to do! I'll read the topic you wrote and try stuff

[namida]

There's one thing not covered in Icho's post, and that's the "Mass Convert" option (under the "Tools" menu). It should be fairly simple to use, but just ask if you have any trouble with it.

Do keep in mind - levels do need to be re-tested after conversion, because Lemmini and NeoLemmix's physics are not identical.

I'm also not sure how familiar you are with NeoLemmix, so one very important thing to keep in mind - if any of your levels rely on bomber timing, or even simply on "you can't have a lemming explode in its first 5 seconds", they'll need adjustment or replacement, because NeoLemmix bombers are instant with no countdown.

There's also a fair few new features you can mess around with in NeoLemmix (of course, using them is optional), such as a handful of new object types (including teleporters, pre-placed lemmings, pickup skills, traps that only work once, and more); arbitrary level sizes instead of being restricted to one fixed size (and yes, this even includes that levels can have vertical scrolling); the ability to have levels with infinite time (in fact, this is considered standard these days, NeoLemmix levels generally don't have time limits unless there's a specific reason for them to do so) or with unchangeable release rate; and eight new skills (mouseover for details): Walker, Swimmer, Glider, Disarmer, Stoner, Platformer, Stacker and Cloner. If you want to familiarize yourself with the new stuff in NeoLemmix, try out the NeoLemmix Introduction Pack.

[Colorful Arty]

Yay! Pieuw is making levels! I'm already excited!

[Pieuw]

I converted all the levels that were ready, and it went pretty well. I had to slightly change a solution but all the other levels work the same which is great.

That being said, a couple NeoLemmix behaviours may cause some levels to be unnecessarily more complicated in term of precision.

First case : because of the instant bombing, there's a situaton where you have to assign the bomber to a climber that's in a crowd of other climbers. It's pretty hard to select the right one. Originally you had to assign the bomber while the lemming was still walking which made it way easier. I'll have to think about that.

The other problem is because lemmings walk through blockers in some situations. I actually like how, in Lemmini, a blocker always makes a lemming turn around no matter what. In a couple levels it makes some blockers a bit annoying to place.

I'm not complaining though, I really like the NeoLemmix player. All the hotkeys controls make it really user-friendly and there's no stress about making mistakes and having to go through a long replay anymore.

There's also a fair few new features you can mess around with in NeoLemmix

Yep, there's a lot of new stuff going on I see I'll stick with the original features and skills for now (except for the infinite time and resizing levels which seem to be better for players), but it's interesting to have new tools to have fun with.

Yay! Pieuw is making levels! I'm already excited!

Well, I'm making levels but I'm not as confident as before with my inspiration and stuff. I hope it'll turn out nice

[bulletride]

You can select a lemming with a right click and then assign a skill to that lemming at a later time by right clicking the icon (like the bomber in that case). Also, I am always down to test levels!

[Pieuw]

Hullo

Still working on this here and there, but still not sure where it's going.

Dodochacalo is AWOL. I got most of his levels on my computer but I can't seem to open them with the latest version of the editor, they fire a thousand errors They're perfectly playable with the Neolemmix player though, which I find odd. I'll have to look into this!

He made almost 30 levels and I'm close to 50, which in total makes a pretty decent amount for a pack. I'll keep working on my part until I'm happy with the amount and quality of the levels. I may post some previews and demos here at some point

I hope everyone is doing ok

[kaywhyn]

Hi Pieuw,

In this case, what you want to do is cleanse the levels. Basically, what it does is resave the level files in an up-to-date format. You simply put the files in the levels folder of NL, load up NL, click on "level select" or press F2, select your pack, and click on "cleanse all levels." After it's done, the level files should be in a folder called Cleanse in your NL directory. This should fix the problem and allow you to now open them in the NL editor.

Just to be sure, are they NL level files? Or are they levels for some other engine? If the former, then what I just outlined above should do the trick. If the latter, then it'll probably be a bit harder, but it can probably still be done

[Pieuw]

Hey Kaywhyn!

Thank you for the help, I'll try to do as you say
Yes the levels are in NL format, but Dodo made them with an older version of the editor. In the past I've already converted all our levels from Lemmini to NL and it was surprisingly easy!

Cheers

Edit: It worked like a charm! Thank you again Kaywhyn

[kaywhyn]

Edit: It worked like a charm! Thank you again Kaywhyn

Perfect! Thanks for reporting back that it worked and went without a hitch I experienced similar problems with some other level packs I have played where the levels are fine in the player but crash when loading them in the editor, and I remember cleansing the levels worked, and hence that was the advice/tip I gave you

I definitely look forward to your future work when it's complete! That reminds me, I think I will soon have a go at Icho's conversion of your Pimolems pack for New Formats NL and once I'm told all solutions are acceptable then make a video series on it showing off my solutions and providing audio commentary. I of course will provide you the link to watch it when I do so! I might follow that up with uploading my solutions to the Lemmini version as well, but that'll require that I go through it again on that engine, as I didn't save any of my replays that time No worries, though, I will get it done one way or another

[Pieuw]

I of course will provide you the link to watch it when I do so!

I'd gladly watch this I re-watched Arty's le'ts play of the pack a few weeks ago, I'm very impressed with Icho's work. Plus Neolemmix makes the levels less unnecessarily tedious which is great

I might follow that up with uploading my solutions to the Lemmini version as well, but that'll require that I go through it again on that engine, as I didn't save any of my replays that time

Wow, switching back to Lemmini after getting used to NeoLemmix requires some determination! Lemmini feels so crude to me now You'll be able to solve the infamous glitch levels correctly though!

I definitely look forward to your future work when it's complete!

I think I'll attach a few levels to this topic soon. I'll have to select which ones I'd love to showcase some of Dodo's work but I won't do it without his consent yet.

[mobius]

Hullo

Still working on this here and there, but still not sure where it's going.

Dodochacalo is AWOL. I got most of his levels on my computer but I can't seem to open them with the latest version of the editor, they fire a thousand errors They're perfectly playable with the Neolemmix player though, which I find odd. I'll have to look into this!

He made almost 30 levels and I'm close to 50, which in total makes a pretty decent amount for a pack. I'll keep working on my part until I'm happy with the amount and quality of the levels. I may post some previews and demos here at some point

I hope everyone is doing ok

if these levels are playable with NL and you're still looking for a tester I'll offer to attempt the levels! Great to see you around and making stuff again! I probably told you years ago but your pack inspired a lot of my own designs.

[Pieuw]

Thank you Mobius

if these levels are playable with NL and you're still looking for a tester I'll offer to attempt the levels!

Yes I'm making levels for NeoLemmix now. If you're interested in testing I'll reach out in pm to send some of them to you. Quite a few levels have already been tested in the past years, Akseli helped a lot in the beginning and Uberwolfie tested a few of them back in 2020. Help is always appreciated

I probably told you years ago but your pack inspired a lot of my own designs.

I do remember Mobilems fondly! Does it exist for NeoLemmix ? I played some packs like Icho's Lemmings Reunion (didn't complete it though ) and I'm currently into Sublems, but I didn't keep up with everything that was made these past years.

[kaywhyn]

Wow, switching back to Lemmini after getting used to NeoLemmix requires some determination! Lemmini feels so crude to me now You'll be able to solve the infamous glitch levels correctly though!

I know what you mean. It's like why bother going back to an engine when it doesn't have all of the great quality of life features that NL has. Well, the thing is I'm a diehard traditionalist when it comes to Lemmings, and I like to occasionally go back to Lemmini/Superlemmini to either play or revisit level packs. Meaning, classic 8 skills, time limits on every level, etc. I was a heavy Lemmini user for at least 6 years before I made the switch to NL near the end of 2019. Believe it or not, several months ago earlier this year I went back and did all of Lemmings Reunion on Lemmini despite how a lot of the later levels are especially very frustrating to execute I first completely solved the pack back June 2017 and I've replayed it and finished it again a few times on Lemmini since. Yes, your Pimolems pack included. It's a great pack, just how many of the solutions can be frustrating to carry out on the engine.

The thing that especially turned me away from NL during those years I was a heavy Lemmini player was how levels can have an infinite amount of time, and I'm one of the few who doesn't mind time limits, especially as I'm a huge lover of numbers myself. I didn't get into level designing myself until 2021 though. Currently, they're all LDC levels, but I'm thinking of making my own level pack one of these days. I haven't exactly ruled it out, but at the same time I haven't exactly said I would make one as well. I still rather play and solve levels than make them, particularly since I'm not an artist. Never was, and still am not Still, a future level pack from me is a possibility.

[Pieuw]

I know what you mean. It's like why bother going back to an engine when it doesn't have all of the great quality of life features that NL has.

Yes, but I get it. It's like replaying old games that may feel tedious today, but that you hold dear to your heart

Well, the thing is I'm a diehard traditionalist when it comes to Lemmings

I'm the same! It's amazing that the game is evolving with new skills, objects and layouts, but to me Lemmings is all about the classic skills and tilesets The absence of time limits I don't really mind though.

I still rather play and solve levels than make them, particularly since I'm not an artist. Never was, and still am not Still, a future level pack from me is a possibility.

You don't need to be an artist to make levels! The art comes with practice. And I find that playing a lot of levels is very inspiring, it gives all sorts of ideas to make stuff yourself!

[kaywhyn]

You don't need to be an artist to make levels! The art comes with practice. And I find that playing a lot of levels is very inspiring, it gives all sorts of ideas to make stuff yourself!

True, as all that's needed really is knowledge of how to use the editor and a level idea. I viewed a lot of video tutorials on how to use the editor before I started making levels myself, and I found that it's a lot easier than I thought! I would be lying if I said it wasn't due to some encouragement from others that I even got into level creation. In particular, it was thanks to Icho's encouragement that I even got into level designing myself. Before I heard this from him, I always had this thought that I wouldn't be good at it at all, but I have shown otherwise. Without that encouragement, I would had been content on just playing and solving levels and wouldn't had ever gotten into level making!

And yes, playing packs is definitely one of the main ways to get level ideas. Some of my levels have been inspired from other pack authors. My designs have been getting better over time, as has been noted by some here on the Forums, although I know that I myself can still improve on them in some way. Admittedly, I don't think I'll ever top the designs of any designer visually here, as again I've never been an artist.

One thing that has been noted is that my puzzles have always been great, so that's apparently something I got down since I started making levels. I've gained a lot of experience from playing so many level packs, and so if I ever do end up making one in the future, don't expect me to go easy on the difficulty! I've learned way too many tricks from other level designers and have put some of them to good use in some of my levels  

[Pieuw]

I've learned way too many tricks from other level designers and have put some of them to good use in some of my levels

That's the spirit

Plus, I think everyone has something to bring to the custom scene. Don't let self doubts get in the way, it's the same for any other form of craft: the only requirement to make something is to... start making something! and motivation to do so, of course

[mobius]

Thank you Mobius

if these levels are playable with NL and you're still looking for a tester I'll offer to attempt the levels!

Yes I'm making levels for NeoLemmix now. If you're interested in testing I'll reach out in pm to send some of them to you. Quite a few levels have already been tested in the past years, Akseli helped a lot in the beginning and Uberwolfie tested a few of them back in 2020. Help is always appreciated

I probably told you years ago but your pack inspired a lot of my own designs.

I do remember Mobilems fondly! Does it exist for NeoLemmix ? I played some packs like Icho's Lemmings Reunion (didn't complete it though ) and I'm currently into Sublems, but I didn't keep up with everything that was made these past years.

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4676.msg80123#msg80123

It's "up to date" but still needs work, as you can see I never finished backroute fixing and I'm never happy with it as a final product but I'm very tired of working on it.

Good luck on Icho's pack; its super tough!

[kaywhyn]

Plus, I think everyone has something to bring to the custom scene. Don't let self doubts get in the way, it's the same for any other form of craft: the only requirement to make something is to... start making something! and motivation to do so, of course

Agreed. I'm one of those who has the tendency to doubt myself a lot, as I don't have much confidence in my own abilities most of the time. Nevertheless, I absolutely appreciate the positivity and optimism. We just do what we can, to the best of our abilities.

[Pieuw]

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4676.msg80123#msg80123

It's "up to date" but still needs work, as you can see I never finished backroute fixing and I'm never happy with it as a final product but I'm very tired of working on it.

Awesome! I'll definitely check it out. I guess it has changed a lot since I last played it

Good luck on Icho's pack; its super tough!

It sure is! But it's also really enjoyable. I played it during a lockdown and stopped at some point when "normal life" returned, but I plan on getting back to it someday.

We just do what we can, to the best of our abilities.

When you put your heart into something, it usually shows!

[Pieuw]

I edited the very first message to attach a few levels, so this project is not just words to you anymore These levels have already been tested but backroutes may remain.
Any feedback is welcome!

[Armani]

Overall nice levels with cute designs
I might have found some backrouts though! (Forbidden Friendship and the second attached solution to Viaduc Caduc)

[Pieuw]

Thank you Armani

Well done saving one blocker on Paucity!
Forbidden Friendship is an obvious backroute, my fault for not checking the trigger areas I'll add more fire pits.
Viaduc Caduc: first replay is spot on, the second one is an interesting backroute which will be easy to fix I think.


Edit: I fixed Forbidden Friendship and Viaduc Caduc. I updated the attachments

[Armani]

This feels intended now

[Pieuw]

This feels intended now

This is perfect

[IchoTolot]

Will 100% play this!

First things first though there are still Uncharted backroutes to re-solve and some other stuff.

[kaywhyn]

We just do what we can, to the best of our abilities.

When you put your heart into something, it usually shows!

Definitely! Thanks again for watching and commenting on my video series on your PimoLems pack. After I finish the rest of the series up, I'll get the Lemmini solutions up too