Author Topic: Wrap? [DISCUSSION] [PLAYER]  (Read 2109 times)

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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Wrap? [DISCUSSION] [PLAYER]
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 09:01:28 pm »
The main problem with the gimmick-implementation (which used the red rectangle) was, that one could never be sure where the lemming would reappear when moving out of the level boundary.

I get your point, though I feel like the minimap can maybe help make it a little easier to work out where the lemming would reappear?

While I can imagine levels being created that could make it tricky to keep track of where the lemming would go, I think in most well-designed levels, there are probably only limited areas where lemmings are expected to cross a wrapping level boundary.  So while I slightly prefer the "yellow rectangle", "true" implementation of wrapping, I can probably live with "red rectangle" as well.

Regardless of red/yellow rectangle, still not sure how much wrapping really adds to singleplayer level design. :-\

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Wrap? [DISCUSSION] [PLAYER]
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 09:23:06 pm »
Quote
Regardless of red/yellow rectangle, still not sure how much wrapping really adds to singleplayer level design.

That's another thing: Wrap was rarely used as a gimmick and I can see the benefits are way more multiplayer related than singleplayer. Even in Lix there don't seem to be that many Wrap singleplayer levels, while a good part of the multiplayer levels use it.

So it might be better to ignore Wrap and focus on things that enrich the variety and/or comfort of level design by a much larger margin.

Offline mobius

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Re: Wrap? [DISCUSSION] [PLAYER]
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 10:42:20 pm »
Then we would need another way to tell the player that wrap is active though. ???

Sorry but if a player cannot tell the level wraps around... are they dumb? you scroll and it never stops, how long can it take someone to figure out what's going on? When they play for the first time sure, it takes some getting used to like everything but not after that. I never had a problem like this when playing lix. (single or multiplayer).

In any case if this was a feature I'd be okay with (but still not prefer) a rectangle to indicate boundaries but definitely insist this option (in one or any direction).

You can definitely do some interesting things with it, just look at some Lix levels or some from Revolution (bounce around the world, turn on tune in switch on). But I also agree it's not the biggest thing on my list at least that could add fun stuff to the game.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Wrap? [DISCUSSION] [PLAYER]
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 11:56:55 pm »
Then we would need another way to tell the player that wrap is active though. ???

Sorry but if a player cannot tell the level wraps around... are they dumb? you scroll and it never stops

IchoTolot is specifically talking about the "red rectangle" implementation where the scrolling doesn't wrap.  Scrolling stops at the level boundaries even with wrapping on, it's just the lemmings themselves (and the way they interact with terrain) that will honor the wrapping.  So you can't scroll past the boundaries, but you will see the lemming disappear and reappear on the opposite boundary as they walk across a boundary.  Another way to think of this is like the classic Pac-Man game--as you move off the top you reappear at the bottom, it doesn't scroll to make the area that was at the bottom to show up at the top.

In contrast, the "yellow rectangle" implementation is like in Lix where the scrolling also wraps, so indeed you can "scroll and it never stops".

Starting from an implementation that has no support for wrapping, it is likely less work to get to a "red rectangle" implementation where scrolling doesn't wrap and only the lemmings and physics do, versus the "yellow rectangle" implementation where scrolling also wraps around.

Offline mobius

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Re: Wrap? [DISCUSSION] [PLAYER]
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2019, 12:15:41 am »
oh yes, sorry I forgot about this. Just to clarify (not that I expect this will be implanted anytime soon anyway) I would be strongly against this [wrapping not visible via scrolling]. If there's going to be wrapping; it should be done like Lix; with infinite scrolling possible.
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude