Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Paralems  (Read 25782 times)

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Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2017, 06:41:13 PM »
I guess if NeoLemmix can't find a music file with the required name, it just plays the standard rotation of Lemmings songs? If it were only the main Lemmings music, I wouldn't consider that a problem - other packs work this way, too, like Nepster Lems. However, I believe if there's no track specified, NeoLemmix circles through the standard Lemmings songs plus those from Oh no! More Lemmings, doesn't it? ;)

Yes, some of the Oh No-songs are indeed quite lame or annoying... if any particular music annoys you, you always have the option of deliberately failing the level so the rotation goes on to the next track ^^.
You can remove the ONML tunes from the music rotation. Open your pack with the Flexi Toolkit and go to the Musics tab. There you will find a button "Edit Music Rotation". This determines what tunes will be played, if the ones specified by the level cannot be found. So click on this button and remove "ohno_01" to "ohno_06" (or whatever tunes do annoy you).

Offline nin10doadict

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2017, 09:51:18 PM »
It's not the Oh No tracks that annoy me, I actually like all of those. It's some of the original tracks that I don't like, mainly because I grew up with the SNES version and so certain other covers of those tracks sound foreign and wrong to me. So I end up muting the game music, opening up YouTube in the background, and then playing a song that I feel will fit the level I'm on. I could have copied some of the other tracks I had and given them names so they would have played, but enh...

I did just finish the Demented rank. While I didn't think to save replays for most of the levels, I did save a few. Mainly for levels that I thought were broken, or just fun in general.
Also that time limit on Abhorrent 24 can go die, :devil: and I've attached a replay that shows why. I didn't save my original solution so I think it was ever so slightly different, but the general concept was the same.

A few more level notes...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2017, 07:30:54 AM »
Thanks! I'll look at your replay tonight when I'm back at my PC. Sometimes players, especially seasoned ones, solve levels in a more complicated way than necessary, thereby requiring more time. However, if you still have to use all the skills as in the intended solution, it shouldn't be solely the time limit that stops you from solving the level.

Basically, it boils down to this: If I consider your solution a valid alternative solution to the intended one (which has about a minute left of leeway, so no problem with the time limit there), I will increase the time limit. If it turns out to be a complicated backroute, I won't :D . In the latter case, I would rather implement some additional elements or change the provided skills to discourage players from that alternative approach right away, so they don't find what would be a possible solution and then fail the level just due to the time limit. I'm all for saving players unnecessary frustration! :D

The main problem wih puzzly levels is that once a player has figured out certain elements, they are prone to starting each new attempt keeping that element constant - thereby probably losing the perspective for completely different solutions. I have experienced this on Nepster's "Mining company": I always start the level in a particular way of which I believe "this can't be done differently"; but in case that way is wrong, anything I try afterwards is bound to fail from the getgo.

There have been studies with professional chess players showing this phenomenon. It's a bit like playing Memory and always flipping the card first where you know the picture with certainty. A player really has to force himself to go back to the drawing board then and start from scratch ;) .

With regard to "Winter is here", it's the other way round: Nepster has already informed me that currently, the time limit is generous enough so that the player can just wait for all the zombies to die without doing anything. Hence I will definitely remove the frosty fire trap and seal the gap on the right, so that they keep moving around the level in circles and the player will have to actively dispose of them. I want it to feel like actually killing the zombies rather than just "waiting for the storm to pass". After all, I'm pretty sure that strategy wouldn't work on the Night King either ;) .

Concerning the music: Thanks to Nepster for the advice on how to drop tracks out of the rotation! I guess in order for nin10doadict to be able to do his, I'd have to send him the SYSTEM.DAT file?

Which of the original tracks are liked or not is obviously up to personal preference, in the end. Naming mp3 files as listed in the starting post would indeed be the way to have some personally favourable music provided by each level automatically without having to type something into YouTube or press "repeat" on each attempt.

On tracks you grew up with: My brother e.g. is always annoyed that when playing original Lemmings with either NeoLemmix or Lemmix, each rank starts with the Can-Can, rather than the rotation being continuous across ranks (for example, "This should be a doddle" should start with Forest Green instead). I suggested to him to dump all the level files and recompile them into a new pack with the Flexi tool. He said he might actually do that, all just to have the "correct" music matching each level as he is used to it :D .
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 07:43:58 AM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2017, 01:35:53 PM »
On tracks you grew up with: My brother e.g. is always annoyed that when playing original Lemmings with either NeoLemmix or Lemmix, each rank starts with the Can-Can, rather than the rotation being continuous across ranks (for example, "This should be a doddle" should start with Forest Green instead). I suggested to him to dump all the level files and recompile them into a new pack with the Flexi tool. He said he might actually do that, all just to have the "correct" music matching each level as he is used to it :D .

Mac-style music rotation. This option is available for pack creators now, but namida decided not to automatically apply it to existing packs.

Offline Nepster

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2017, 04:15:34 PM »
Concerning the music: Thanks to Nepster for the advice on how to drop tracks out of the rotation! I guess in order for nin10doadict to be able to do his, I'd have to send him the SYSTEM.DAT file?
No, that's not sufficient. You would have to send nin10toadict more or less the whole folder with the SYSTEM.dat file, including all of your single levels. On the new-formats version, nin10toadict could change the music rotation even without having your SYSTEM.dat, but unfortunately we aren't there yet.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2017, 05:02:35 PM »
Okay, I've looked at nin10doadict's replay. Since I had already overhauled this level to avoid Nepster's backroute (i.e. added steel on the left so that the lemmings don't reach the teleporter from behind), in doing so I also made one of the pillars you fenced through a one-way block facing in the opposite direction. That was yesterday, i.e. before I watched your replay, but it happens to be this way now that your solution won't be possible in the new version of this level anyway - kinda by accident. A lot of levels need a bit more steel, both you and Nepster have shown me this especially with regard to "Maze of Omnipotence" and "IT'S FEEDING TIME!"

I was very impressed with your solution for "ELemEnts", nice alternative approach to what I had in mind! :)

For "Winter is here", yeah, the fire trap most definitely has to go. Your solution was mechanically fine, perfectly within the time limit, all fair and square - but just hiding from zombies and letting them kill themselves is just not epic enough for the last level ^^. Once again thanks to you and Nepster for showing this to me, I will modify the level to keep the zombies circling around the landscape, as promised.

@Proxima: Great, thanks a lot! I will send that link to my brother, it will save him a lot of work, hopefully! :D

PS: The intended solution for Abhorrent 24 ("Beam me up, Lemmy!") is attached, btw ;) .

Spoiler for nin10doadict
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Just to catch up, who is still playing the current version? I have Colorful Arty's replays up to Disturbing, I don't know whether Raymanni got to take a look at the pack or not - he voiced his interest, but of course a lot of packs have been released roughly around the same time lately, and the time we have everyday to save some Lemmings is naturally limited :D .

The thing is, I have overhauled all the levels on the basis of your replays and feedback, but I don't want to cause confusion by uploading a new version while some people are still playing the first one. When I upload it, I will change the link in the starting post. I can already promise that no levels will be removed (basically, "don't remove it" seems to be becoming my second name here :D ), just all the backroutes we've found so far will (hopefully) have been fixed.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 05:51:54 PM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2017, 04:50:02 PM »
I haven't downloaded a new version after my initial download.
My Youtube channel where I let's play games with family-friendly commentary:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiRPZ5j87ft_clSRLFCESQA

My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/colorfularty

My levelpack: SubLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4942.0
For Old formats NeoLemmix: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2787.0
For SuperLemmini: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

My levelpack: ArtLems
For New formats NeoLemmix: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4583.0

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2017, 06:50:47 PM »
And here is the updated version at last! :D

Paralems V2:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r005kodylk2o33z/Paralems.nxp?dl=1

Changelog:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I must admit I'm particularly proud of the new solutions for "Twilems" and "The Pit and the PenduLem". These two levels imho went from being almost redundant and without any particular purpose in the original version to probably some of the hardest levels in the pack :D .

Give it a shot whenever you find the time and motivation for it! Of course, please keep reporting any backroutes or shortcuts you might find. I have done my best to take care of all the unintended solutions presented so far, but of course, with 150 levels, some things can still get overlooked easily.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 03:17:40 PM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2018, 03:53:25 AM »
Finished!

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2020, 10:02:21 AM »
All rightie, as promised here is my entire set of replays for Paralems.

Remarks About the Pack

Overall, I didn't really feel any significant challenge with the pack, so it was definitely a nice break from all the very difficult levels I've been playing for the last several months. In particular, I felt no real challenge until I got to the Disgusting rank, although there was one pretty difficult level in the Disturbing rank, Disturbing 12 - We'll have to make up for those. Although the pack mostly strays away from the NL philosophy of being puzzly, there were definitely some really nice puzzles in each rank. I thought it was really cool revisiting some of the levels from the original Lemmings throughout the pack and having to solve them in a slightly different way with NL skills. Some of them were quite enjoyable, but others not so much or they didn't add much more of a challenge. Others I didn't enjoy as much. In particular, I thought I wouldn't mind the levels that had so much repetitive skill assigning. I was wrong. If anything, I found it very annoying to assign 40 or more of the same skill to each individual lemming. Yet, I endured all of these levels and made it through them.

There were some really nice looking levels in this pack. My favorite ones visually were Harmless 19 - Death Titan, Harmless 20 - Treasure Island, Disturbing 24 - Face the Hydra, Disgusting 18 - In Memory of Steve Irwin, and Demented 28 - Dark Fate of Atlantis.

Finally, I don't mind hidden traps in general, although here it was more of didn't mind at first, but after a certain point it was overdone to death and then I started getting annoyed. Even then, I assure you I didn't use CPM on any of the levels of this pack except for Demented 28, but only because I thought the exit trigger was busted when the lemmings wouldn't exit. Of course, you did warn in the release post that with "animals things aren't always what they appear to be," so to experience this and see if it can tick me off, I avoided using CPM in the pack. Luckily, it wasn't too bad, although probably the biggest reason I wasn't as annoyed with them is probably because I ended up backrouting some of them. Having only played through the entire pack once so far, I'll probably won't remember the majority of levels that have them.

Now feedback on the individual ranks. I'm going to follow a similar structure as I did when I gave you feedback for Lemmicks.

Harmless Rank (click to show/hide)

Disturbing Rank (click to show/hide)

Disgusting rank (click to show/hide)

Abhorrent rank (click to show/hide)

Demented rank (click to show/hide)

Wow, it took me a very long time to write all of this feedback, I beliee a total of 6 hours or more. I certainly have my detail-oriented mindset to blame, as well as how I had to take the time to look through the levels in the NL player and let some of the replays play out so that I can remember what I wanted to say/write. Not to mention that I decided to wait until I finished the entire pack before sending replays and my feedback. Well, I think when I do Pit Lems I'm going to avoid this by probably sending feedback after a rank or two rather than complete the pack first and doing what I did with Paralems.

Anyway, if you ever decide to look at my replays and feedback, I hope you find both useful. I'm definitely looking forward to your new packs.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2020, 10:57:55 PM »
6 hours for writing this feedback? :lem-mindblown: Thanks a lot for your effort and your extensive input... I gotta say, though, you clearly subjected this pack to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn't deserve. :P

As you know now, my old laptop died this weekend. Paralems, Pit Lems, and Lemmicks were all not part of my Dropbox. The packs are so old and have been completed for a while though that I assume they should all still be on my external hard drive in the current version - because back then, I only backed things up on the external hard drive. If they aren't there in the latest version, I can still download the pack from the forums again like anyone else, and then just use level dump to retreive the single levels.

I believe level dump should also work in NeoLemmix 1.43? So that in a pinch, I could also do this for Lemmicks? ???

I think I already considered this option after the crash during World Tour development. Because I remember stressing that I was wise enough not to disable level dumping. (I think so far I've only seen Colorful Arty disable it on Old-Formats SubLems, so that nobody could "steal" his "artworks", I assume :evil: .) In New Formats, every pack consists of the single level files anyway; but in Old Formats, opening a pack in the player and then using level dump was the primary way of extracting and isolating the individual level files from a pack.

Thus, when all else is lost, I should be able to regain access to editable level files for my three Old-Formats-exclusive packs (Paralems, Pit Lems, Lemmicks) again. Some of my replays might be gone, though - I'll have to check. I recently copied my entire Old-Formats Replay folder into Dropbox, so Paralems and Pit Lems replays should be there, but Lemmicks is a different thing once again.

Just saying in advance, I can't guarantee for anything. ;) At least now I have somewhat of an excuse, from a technical standpoint - instead of just "this was my very first attempt at making a pack and I don't really care anymore."


Let me address a few of your comments now; I won't go into specific levels here, I'll save that for when I've watched your replays.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2020, 04:23:37 AM »
6 hours for writing this feedback? :lem-mindblown: Thanks a lot for your effort and your extensive input... I gotta say, though, you clearly subjected this pack to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn't deserve. :P

Yup, no joke. It really did take me that long to write the feedback. You're probably right there, but I did do the same thing when I sort of revived Lemmicks by playing it and sending you feedback on its level pack topic earlier this year ;P

Remarks to some of your comments, also in spoiler form:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2020, 10:32:40 AM »
Well, at least Trump made me aware of the schmoyoho YouTube channel: A group of siblings that applies Melodyne (a pitch correction software for singers, often incorrectly referred to as "Autotune" - because there's nothing automatic about it, you can manually draw in the pitches) to TV interviews and also political debates. One of their other songs, which was "sung" by Tom Brady, also made it into my upcoming pack Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll.

Quote
The Mata Nuiy

Mata Nui is both the name of an island, as well as of the main divinity, in the Lego Bionicle universe. The Toa (Maori for "warrior") are the six heroes the story revolves around. The inhabitants used to be called Tohunga, but apparently that's a title of some type of shaman in the Maori language. So they changed the term for the inhabitants into "Matoran" after just 1 or 2 years. Which seems more fitting anyway as it sounds more similar to the name of the island.

Bionicle started in the early 2000s and lasted in its original form for about a decade. After that, Lego tried to reboot it, but I don't think the new versions of the toys ever achieved the same level of popularity.

The level "Six heroes, one destiny" was actually playing the soundtrack of the first Bionicle movie in my personal version. But of course, those tracks are copyrighted, so I can't share them.
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2020, 10:54:57 AM »
The level "Six heroes, one destiny" was actually playing the soundtrack of the first Bionicle movie in my personal version. But of course, those tracks are copyrighted, so I can't share them.

Oh yea, I'm sure I would had enjoyed the pack far more than I did had the levels played the custom music tracks instead, but it's like you said, you can't due to copyright issues, and so I played the pack with the Dos soundtracks, which are the ones that I grew up, although I later owned the CD version and so I grew up with that soundtrack as well.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0