Author Topic: Which levels can be beaten without assigning skills to more than one lemming?  (Read 30964 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ccexplore

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 5320
    • View Profile
Here are Classic 5 and Classic 6, using some special techniques spoilered below:

http://speedy.sh/EdZh9/Classic5-1lem-avi.zip
http://speedy.sh/fmTDk/Classic6-1lem-avi.zip

Quote from: Classic 5
Set up crawling for the crowd by building and (as a last move of course) blocking against the steel wall (the build bridge goes over the blocker's head, leading lemmings to get squeezed between blocker and wall, triggering crawling).  This lets the crowd get up to where usually only the worker lemming could climb up to.

Quote from: Classic 6
The trick is to create sufficient separation between 1st and 2nd lemming at the start.  To do so, take advantage that the game lets you do a little bit of digging and mining even when you stand on steel.  The lemming won't remove anything but will end up slightly lowered into the steel, and then can be turned around quickly by assigning builder.

This ultimately lets the 1st lemming turn around before 2nd lemming does, giving sufficient time to dig a deep enough pit to catch everyone.  The rest is fairly conventional and left as an exercise.

Offline ccexplore

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 5320
    • View Profile
And here's Classic 10, a tough one due to the time limit.  A more conventional solution attempt would leave you well short of time; even this solution here, with its bag of tricks and shortcuts, finished with the game timer around 0:11.  No use of crawling though like GuyPerfect suggested.

I'm not really going to attempt a verbal explanation, but I have noted below the various points in the movie (specified by what the game's timer reads) of particular interest to the solution:

http://speedy.sh/JsPDC/Classic10-1lem-avi.zip

Quote from: Classic 10
4:42 A single build brick is enough to cover up the exit's trigger.

3:46 Use the basher's "backstroke" to remove enough of the build brick to re-expose the exit's trigger.

("Backstroke" refers to the terrain behind the basher that gets removed during a bash stroke.  In DOS Lemmings 2 it's actually quite a significant amount of terrain.)

3:21-3:18 Brute-force your way through the wood on the right side of the room below the entrance area, using no more than 4 bashers.

1:42 You need to change the miner to a basher at very very close to the precise moment shown in the movie, basically after the miner has started swinging the axe downwards, but before the downswing completes.  This takes advantage of a known quirk of the game mechanics, in which during that motion, the game has already started lowering the miner by one pixel.

This allows the miner to start bashing at the precise elevation needed to make the solution work.  One pixel too high and the steel ahead would interfere with bashing (even if it doesn't look like it should).  One pixel too low and you won't be able to get anyone out of the bash tunnel later.

1:04 Stop the basher mid-stroke precisely (no margin of error, if you miss, try again on next stroke) like in the movie, so that you end up creating traversable "steps" at the end of bash tunnel, allowing everyone to get up and out of the bash tunnel, and eventually to the exit.

===============

Classic 8 and 9 can most likely be ruled out, as you don't have much options at the start to prevent too many lemmings from overtaking your worker and eventually die.  Classic 7 I'm guessing is also probably not going to work--even if you manage to find a way to get everyone up (within constraints of the challenge) using crawling, I'm not sure you can divert the crowd sufficiently to complete the digging and building required at the end of the path to exit.

Offline ccexplore

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 5320
    • View Profile
Here's Space 2 (yep, it happens ;P) through a totally unconventional solution of course, though arguably no glitches.  And also Space 10 which is reasonably simple and straightforward.  Space 6 I agree is a big fat no for this challenge.

http://speedy.sh/7fF6t/Space2-1lem-avi.zip
http://speedy.sh/KAQ4W/Space10-1lem-avi.zip

I decided to capture and attach some screenshots for Space 2 here as well.  Verbal explanation will be brief just to give the overall idea.

Quote from: Space 2
The idea is to use explosion knockback (aka "flinging") to get the crowd over to the exit platform, without having to go through the normal route of platforming over the big gap to reach the exit.

In order for this to work, you first have to compress the crowd down to very small spread.  This is possible by creating a wall using 3 platform bricks--lay one down, then switch to magno booter and get up to the brick, and then back to platformer for next brick.

To set up the fling, you will want the crowd to be falling from the left side of the gap (instead of the usual right side), the gap left of the entrance area leading down to the exit area.  Your worker lemming falls on the right side of the gap, and so when he explodes the crowd gets flung to the left.  In fact the flinging is so powerful that you actually need it to happen relatively early in the fall, so that the crowd actually gets flung up to the ceiling above the exit platform, prevent them from going too far horizontally and overshooting the exit (instead they hit the ceiling, and then fall straight down onto the exit platform as desired).

How to create the setup and make it work, you can gleam from the screenshots, watch the movie, or figure it out yourself.

Quote from: Space 10
Just remember that you can bazooka near the exit facing right, and be turned around from the knockback of the bazooka blast taking out the vertical bar right of the exit.  This doesn't give you too many opportunites to get back into the entrance pit area, but actually you only need to be back in that area 2 times to bazooka everyone out.  (See this post to refresh your memory on how.)

Offline GuyPerfect

  • Posts: 363
    • View Profile
Awesome. Your solution for Space 2 is ingenious. You win a cookie!

I've gone back and edited my posts to contain links to yours as well as your solutions on YouTube. Here are the videos:

Classic 5: http://youtu.be/c--SBf7qWxg
Classic 6: http://youtu.be/QidkFZ0KN30
Classic 10: http://youtu.be/lEt8fOfK7O0
Space 2: http://youtu.be/5hF1i7aYdh0
Space 10: http://youtu.be/9SN0Vji_uEY

In future videos, do me a favor... Make sure the entire fade-in and fade-out make it into the recording. (-:

Offline mobius

  • Posts: 2434
  • relax.
    • View Profile
This is really too much fun so I keep coming back to it. :D

Lemmings Revolution:

Watch Out Evil About [100% possible]

[in the attached pic I neglected to save 1 lem because I didn't change the RR correctly in the beginning. You have exactly enough builders for this to work.]

Quote
-Set RR to 1, after 2 or 3 lems come out set to 99. All Lems should come out and walk through the time door before the weasels. The door will close and trap the weasels.
-the first lem is the traiblazer. mine him throug the thin floor before the first teleporter (this one leads to the lava). All Lems should get trapped in the lower pit there.
-build out of it so he hits and turns around becoming the last in line. The switch here has no effect on this solution.
-When he goes through the teleport and comes out up top, bash through the wall then build up to the floating steel block.
-Let him turn around and go back down. On the bottom, near the switch build up to the same steel block, making sure he hits and turns around. Then build once more to the right. This is to catch fallers from above later.
-Let him go back up, now build left to the other steel to close the gap then build right to get on top of the steel block.* Bash to stop him if nessicary.
-You now want to build at the edge of the steel so he goes up and hits the retractable wall and turns around. All the other lems should fall onto the steps you made earlier to save them and you can ignore them.
-Once he turns back build up to the left area. And use three final builders to get to the switch at the top which opens up the path to the balloon.
-To save the worker, bash through the steps you just made so he falls into the area behind the teleporter there. He'll end up back in the area where all the rest were.

*Be sure to build so that the brick comes flat with the steel. You can easily run into a problem here where you accidentally trap lemmings in.

"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline mobius

  • Posts: 2434
  • relax.
    • View Profile
8-10 Walk the Plank or Join the Crew?

>>>[with exceptions] - that is, I didn't actually use just 1 lemming, I used 2, But I did use only 1 from each hatch. I'm 50-70% certain only 1 lemming isn't possible.* Thanks again to Pirohiko for some help.
I Don't really care if the original poster wants to add this to the list or not, I just feel like mentioning the levels like this that come close or have exceptions.
Any other levels like this I will not bold the title to give an indication in case I forget to mention it

Quote
-set lower RR to 1. The first lem here will be the main worker. Make a blocker on the top [he's the only one you use on the top and that's the only skill you absolutely need to use on him] Make sure to allow plenty of room between the wall and blocker.
-on the bottom, make him build twice to the platform. Two lemmings will die. When he turns around make him climb/floater.
-Let him climb over the one way wall, on the other side build over the lava.
-Near the teleporter, dig or mine and bash to remove the top layer of ground [make sure no lems can enter the teleporter on the right side, they need to enter from the left.] Make him built to stop somewhere on the left of it.
-Let him turn around and build over the lava again to seal the gap. Bash through the one way wall.
-When he comes around to the teleporter again build up to it {on the left}. They will come out up top, build and bash through that 1-way-wall. When he's bashing and almost done, at the ledge, you can build one brick to make him turn around quicker later (this is not necessary since you have a ridiculous amount of time on this level).
-As everybody gets caught in the top area, have him make a builder wall to separate everyone from the blocker. Make sure to isolate him on the right; you can use the hatch to turn him around.
-Build over the blocker, let him go past the speed up pad and through the door. Use bashers or builders to stall him if he isn't timed right to get through. The laser on the other side frees the weasel and keeps the door open.
-Use a builder to turn him around. When he comes back, build over the blocker again then destroy the builder wall. They are free to go to the exit.

notes: in the pic, I instead reset the blocker and he went to the exit.


*The problem is that if you leave the top lemmings alone [setting RR at 1] they will get knocked off from the opening/closing door. Once you turn on the speed up pad (From below) 1 will eventually get past but he then sets lose the weasel; who will trigger the laser that shuts the door closing in the lower lemmings. If you go for saving the top quicker by having the worker climb the one way wall and turn on the speed up pad; the weasel is freed too soon and you can't get the lower lemmings out quick enough. If you try to set a trap for the weasel for him to avoid the laser there too many lemmings on top die. [I haven't found a very quick way to accomplish all of those things at once, but maybe somebody else can.]
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline mobius

  • Posts: 2434
  • relax.
    • View Profile
Where's Carol Vorderlem?

Note: this one takes a long time and is quite tedious. I have no picture and no proof because my game decided to screw me over and over again with glitches and other BS and I'm really sick of this level now. But I am certain this is possible.
I'd love for someone else to find an easier or better way. This method saves the minimum 4/10 and uses quite a bit of time.

Quote
-set RR to 1. make him a digger, after a few digs bash across to he hits steel to block the lemmings in and gives them some room to walk around in.
-make him climber+floater, facing right. Let him go past the top time door.
-On the floor, dig into the floor near the grav pad. He'll hit steel so make him a builder to turn around but make sure other lemmings will be trapped.
-When he turns around build up to the left, at about the fifth bolt on the steel under the floor from the wall. He should connect with the wall but not turn around. Let him climb up then bash through the upper arrow wall.
-when he turns around and goes back to the trap hole, turn him around again to go back and bash through the lower arrow wall.
-Now let him go through the grav pad, all the way past the balloon, to the other side. He should eventually climb up through the small time door and enter back into the entrance area.

-When he goes back into the crowd mine or dig to let three lemmings into the top right laser area. Make sure 3 get in there. The time door will close blocking entrance to others. If you need to, make the worker build into the time door; he'll turn around.
-Dig/bash/mine into the top left laser area. You can either have the worker do it or others, you now don't have to worry about any other lemmings dying. You just need one more for the lower left laser.
-Get 1 lem into the lower left laser [NOT the worker]
-Now send the worker to the lower right laser. Since you bashed this side already, he can exit the area from there. The other three lemmings above that should've exited as well and went into the trap hole you dug earlier near the grav pad.
-Now you just need to free those lemmings from that hole. Three plus the worker makes 4 (the minimum requirement). Lemmings must direct drop to the balloon in this level; idk why.
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline mobius

  • Posts: 2434
  • relax.
    • View Profile
for some reason I thought I recorded this level already (in this challenge I mean) but I guess not;

(Lemmings Revolution)
9-9 It's a Hard Life

Quote
use a lemming from the balloon area. build over the balloon to turn around. Mine down left.
-build up through the shaft. Make him a climber and build once up to the thin platform
-you can bash to remove some terrain above him, enough to make a hole.
-Dig throuh the steps to freedom, then build up to the miner's tunnel. (should take two builders) you have just enough builders (yet again!) for this to work.
-be careful not to let the worker climb into the saw.
saves 100%
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline mobius

  • Posts: 2434
  • relax.
    • View Profile
I noticed Genesis isn't on the master list. I found "Let's go to the Moon" is possible 100% (likely many different methods are possible). I don't remember what level or rank that's in. I discovered this while playing the redux pack.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: and just discovered 'Darkness of the Royal Family' also possible 100%.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 12:47:07 am by mobius »
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude