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Messages - IchoTolot

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2881
In this topic I will teach you how to easily convert your (Super)Lemmini levels and tilesets to NeoLemmix. :)

You will need:

If you have only levels with already existing equivalent NeoLemmix tilesets (like the Lemmings 1 + Oh No more Lemmings ones):

- The NeoLemmix editor
- The NeoLemmix player (in the same folder as the editor)  If you download the full editor package: It also comes with a copy of it.

If you use a custom tileset in your levels that is not avialable in NeoLemmix yet:

- The Graphic Set Tool (GST)

Optional
If you want to make your levels into a NeoLemmix pack:
- The Flexi Toolkit

All of them can be downloaded on this site: www.neolemmix.com

There is still not a list of all NeoLemmix sets, but these should cover the most:

- All Lemmings 1 tilesets + Oh No More Lemmings + Christmas + Sega + Genesis
- List of NeoLemmix auto-downloadable sets (this includes L2 + L3 as well): http://online.neolemmix.com/styles.php
- The tilesets of the Lemmings Plus series. Topic: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1922.0

To obtain styles from the database you can select "Tools -> Download Graphic Sets" in the editor, or manually search the tileset topics.


Case 1: Converting levels with already existing equivalent NeoLemmix tilesets

Loading the level into the editor:
- Open the NeoLemmix editor.
- Click on "File" and after that on "Open".
- Search for Lemmini filetypes ".ini"
- Go to the folder with your levels you want to conver to NeoLemmix
- Open the level that you want to convert

Now two things can happen:

1.) The editor matches the level with an already existing NeoLemmix tileset automatically by recognising the (Super)Lemmini tileset name.
Now you only have to check if the chosen tileset is correct (tiles + objects are ~ in the right place). If not try to open with another tileset. You could also adapt the used (Super)Lemmini tileset in the level file to match the name of the right NeoLemmix tileset.
2.) The editor does not recognise the (Super)Lemmini tilesets name and asks you to choose an already existing NeoLemmix tileset with which you want to open the level. In that case simply choose the right one as you probably know best which tileset you used for the level and you only need to inform yourself if there is an already existing equivalent NeoLemmix tileset.

Now it's time adapt and test your level under NeoLemmix circumstances:

1.) Repositioning:

The first thing I most likely do is to reposition the level and adapt the level size. All loaded Lemmini levels start with the 1600x160 size as this was the only avialable size there.
SuperLemmini may start with an already adjusted size already.
But now we can improve that!
Select all tiles + objects of the level by pressing "ctrl" and draw a big box over all of your level.
When everything is selected: Move your level to the left edge and limit the 1600x160 screen size to the one the level actually needs.
This is determined best by checking where your most right tile/object ends + maybe a few pixels overhang if it helps the visuals.
Size example: 320x160 is one in-game screen.
Caution: NeoLemmix has deadly left/right edges! Keep that in mind if your level used the solid left/right (Super)Lemmini edges.
This can be easily fixed by placing a steel or terrain wall at the effected edge to simulate that truthfully.

2.) Terrain/Object checks:

As (Super)Lemmini uses double the Resolution of NeoLemmix your level was scaled down.
This can have the effect that some tiles are positioned wrong by 1 pixel!  Most likely the ones with an uneven height/width.
For example: Converted "City" tiles have a tendency to have 1 pixel gaps between them!
So check your tiles for unwanted gaps!
This also applies for objects! So be sure to check if the trigger areas are placed correctly!
Click on "View" in the editor and let it show you the trigger areas. There are represented by pink areas now. Lemmings are activating objects if the trigger area is one pixel below them.
For example: A correctly placed exit trigger area reaches one pixel into the ground on which it is standing on.
Hint: Climbers climb up 1 pixel inside the terrain (so the most outer terrain pixel). If a trigger area should interact with climbers be sure that it reaches there!
Again the majority of tiles/objects should be alright, but it is always better to double check!

You can also switch from the (Super)Lemmini steel areas to autosteel if you want (if you not used autosteel in SuperLemmini already) and if your level has these placed only on the dedicated steel pieces anyway in the past it should be easy to do.
Click on "View" and let it show you the steel areas. Click on them and delete them. Open the level properties window and activate "Autosteel".
Now all the steelpieces in the tileset are steel naturally without the steel areas.
If you want to stick with them, check again if the steel areas are placed correctly once more, especially if you have repositioned your level in the fiest step!
But it is highly encouraged to switch to autosteel, as the steel areas might get removed in the future!

3.) Save your level:

Now save your level in NeoLemmix format by pressing "File" and then "Save as". It will be saved in Lemmix ".lvl" format.
Choose your desired location + name and save it!

4.) Test your level + save a solving replay!

Now it's time to check if the level is solvable and save a proof of it. Press "F2" and start the test mode!
The player starts and takes you into the level. Solve your level again and press the save replay key "U" (default) after doing the last skill assignment (the nuke counts as one!).
Now you have a solving NeoLemmix replay of it in the Replay folder of the editor!  Put it where you like. If you want to load a NeoLemmix replay press "L"(default) and select your replay.

Some important advice:
- You now have the ability to select an unlimited time limit in the level properties window.
Most levels don't need a timer and many people are not happy about not needed timers, especially if they have to replay the level just because of them!
But intended time crunchers should definitly keep their timers, as well as levels where the timer prevents a backroute!
- Some mechanics from (Super)Lemmini may not work in NeoLemmix! Test these out and if they do not work you could alter the levels skillset and maybe make a different interesting solution!
You could even use the new NeoLemmix skills or features like updrafts, pick-up skills or preplaced Lemmings.
- You can also put in the authors name (most likely yours) in the level properties tab!
- You have the possibility in the level properties tab to lock the release rate so that it cannot be changed at all now!
- Be sure to save again!

Case 2: Converting levels with no existing equivalent NeoLemmix tilesets

1.) Converting the missing (Super)Lemmini tilesets:

Now you need the GST!
Open it and press "Import --> (Super)Lemmini".
Select the "styles.ini" of the tileset you want to convert.
Now all tiles + objects should be loaded in. Check the objects trigger areas if they are placed correctly! Remember the 1 pixel into the ground rule!
Also the objects/tiles pictures should have had a transparent background color in (Super)Lemmini! If not --> edit them befoe importing!
You don't want to have the objects/tiles background color in-game!
Remember that all pictures have been scaled down by half now, they could look a bit different!
If you have a custom single-colored background you can put that in in the bottom right corner by selecting it and put in the right color code.
If you have any custom background images in your object list, mark them as those!
You can then delete any big background objects in your levels and choose the desired bg-image naturally in the level properties window later.
Also mark the pieces that should naturally be steel! Select these tiles and mark them as steel.
This could already be done for SuperLemmini stuff, but is definitly nessesary for Lemmini! Be sure to double-check!

Now save the tileset ("File","Save as") in the NeoLemmix ".dat" format. Put the newly saved file into the "styles" folder of the NeoLemmix editor (and player).
Be sure to name it conformant to the NeoLemix tileset naming rules! Topic: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2687.0
Finally the editor should be able to load your level file now! You can proceed as in Case 1!

2.) Testing:
Aditionally treat your to be converted levels in this tileset as test subjects for it!
Is the tileset looking good ingame?
Are the trigger areas working correctly?
Are the animations alright?


Optional steps after converting:
You can make your levels into your own NeoLemmix level pack using the Flexi toolkit! Be sure to include all needed tilesets in it though.

Tutorial: http://www.neolemmix.com/old/flexitutorial.html


This should cover the most important steps in converting Super(Lemmini) content to NeoLemmix! If you have any questions: Ask!

Also if I got something wrong here --> Point it out! this topic is doomed to change over time anyways ;)


2882
Converting SuperLemmini/Lemmini ----> NeoLemmix is now only really possible in the old editor version!
As the editor doesn't ask anymore which NL tileset to use. It tries to load a NL tileset named the same as the SL/L one, but it is often not the case that both tileset version are named actually 100% the same!
This results in a simple error message that the NL tileset was not found and no way of loading the level without renaming the whole SL/L tileset.
Here the editor tries to be smarter then me, but I know which tileset I need to use!
My proposal:
- When loading SL/L: The editor tells me the name of the SL/L tileset and then lets me choose from all included NL tilesets with which one I want to load the level.

I want to keep a proper SL/L ---> NL conversion even in the new editor as this is still frequently used by quite a few people (+ I want to convert DoveLems at some point ;))

Here the IRC discussion:

<Nepster>IchoTolot: Would it be possible that you write a NL post "How to load SuperLemmini into the NL Editor and how to best port level packs"? I would then make the post sticky.
<IchoTolot>I could do that Nepster
<IchoTolot>I will do that
<Nepster>Thanks.
<IchoTolot>I try to writ a topic tomorrow
<IchoTolot>which board would be the most fitting?
<IchoTolot>NL, SL, Other Projects or simply Level Design?
<Nepster>I think the main NL board, because currently loaded levels can only be saved in NL format.
<Nepster>So only NL users will be interested in this topic.
<IchoTolot>ok in the new editor this will be difficult
<IchoTolot>I have to use an old one for this
<IchoTolot>or I need the question from the editor which NL set to use
<IchoTolot>that how I did it before
<Nepster>Ok. Then we should perhaps wait a bit and ask namida first.
<IchoTolot>with Jamies stuff it recognised my city tileset automatically
<IchoTolot>but now even the standard sets are not recognised at once
<Nepster>Or you write your post for Editor V1.43 and namida adds how it is done in Editor V1.48.
<IchoTolot>when loading SL/L i need a check question which of the NL sets it needs to load
<IchoTolot>you cant
<IchoTolot>I load a dirt level and it says the tileset isnt there---> end
<Nepster>This sounds like a bug.
<IchoTolot>because its name Dirt (Orig) now
<IchoTolot>a better workaround would be    load SL/L ----> question which tileset to use
<IchoTolot>the uses knows best
<IchoTolot>user
<Nepster>And you cannot tell the editor the new name by modifying the style.ini in the styles//SuperLemmini folder?
<IchoTolot>maybe if i edit the level file itself but the workaround is too high in that case
<IchoTolot>as I said    load SL/L ----> question which tileset to use    would be the easiest
<IchoTolot>and most user friendly
<Nepster>As long as the editor tells you the name of the original SuperLemmini style, yes.
<IchoTolot>yes this would be good as well

2883
Lemmings Main / Re: Sonic Advanced 3 Route 99 Pack has been taken down
« on: October 11, 2016, 04:35:56 PM »
So yesterday, I uploaded my latest pack "Sonic Advanced 3 Route 99" on Levelpacks, but I took it down, because I realised this tileset and levels was a bad idea.

??? Reasons why: ???
Steel is hidden, so you can't tell what's where
The background can sometimes make it hard to tell where the Lemmings and the cursor are
This project was abandoned back in 2012 and discontinued

I apologies for this convenience, I hope you understand ;)

The levels would only just need a bit of finetuning, the tileset itself is alright.


-For me the Steel was alawys the grey 42x42 blocks as they look the closest to the other steel blocks, so I marked them as steel in my conversion. I always stick with this steel rule and make no exceptions to create the most honest scenario.
-The background can be turned off in NeoLemmix in the options menu + you can actively choose which one to use without having to place a big object. I used only the blue one for my own city levels. As it looks nice and the distraction is not too big in my opnion. Even when turened off the black background still works.

Every tileset has tasks which it can fulfill best. The city tileset is weak in creating small corridors. But it's good to create open landscapes with different height levels.

I would give the pack another try! Think a bit over the levels, make more suiting scenarios with interesting puzzles. It can work very well ;)

Maybe use the Lemmings Reunion city levels as an inspiration! ;P

2884
Using converted level/tileset needs double checking all the time.  The gap from high to low res results often in 1 pixel mistakes. I can sing a song! :P

2885
General Discussion / Re: Lemmings Forums on Youtube
« on: October 11, 2016, 02:39:52 PM »
Pm'ed you about Hellish 3 with a replay, you just missed a detail with which you would have solved it in 5mins ;)

But I respect your decision. When sth doesn't make fun anymore, why torturing yourself?

2886
So this came up a few times in IRC now and it always ended in some raging and discussing.

Let's end this once and for all, as I am sick of the back and forth :devil::

Should it stay as it is: They can enter mid-air!

Or change: You always need solid ground under the lems feet to enter the exit!

I would vote for a change here as direct drop in general should not be possible and I count gliders + floaters in here as well.

2887
Funny thing about that, is I actually did have one of those, and it did not inform me that Hellish 1 was impossible when I updated to V1.47. Flopsy found that out the hard way. I don't really trust it anymore unfortunately.
Then some kind of error must have been made. Either wrong version of level or player must have been used for the check or the Flopsy playing side. This would be my guess, as I never had an incorrect call from the function (except one "could not find level" case) when I used the correct versions of replay, level and player.

2888
Fixed the latest update since apparently the new NeoLemmix update made Hellish 15 no longer possible. >:(

Hellish 15 is now a completely new level with new music.

Also, more talismans have been added, and they all work now. :p

I would recommend making a replay folder with solving replays to every level. After an update make a mass replay check with the new version and check if all replays are still solving. If a replay breaks you can quicky investigate that and check if the level overall is still solvable and just the replay needs reworking.
This way you can prevent impossible levels very effectively.

2889
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: [NeoLemmix] PimoLems
« on: October 10, 2016, 03:18:35 PM »
For some reason the ZIP has "PimoLems.EXE" instead of the NXP.

My bad.  Fixed the file. That's why the archive size was 1 MB larger :P

I am keeping a copy of the last version with the old exe format as well and I must have included the wrong file in the archive :-[

2890
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: [NeoLemmix] PimoLems
« on: October 09, 2016, 11:42:45 AM »
1.7 is out!

Compatible with 1.48 now + new castle tileset included!

- skill icons updated

2891
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Reunion
« on: October 09, 2016, 11:37:51 AM »
Version 2.1 is out!

Compatible to 1.48 now!

- new castle + city tilesets included
- skill panel icons updated

- 5 14 due to the temporarly bug of the 1 pixel less fallheight I found a - 1 floater way to beat this level :devil:     so - 1 floater for you as well :devil:
- all city levels have an adjusted bg image

2892
1.8 Update is out, as well as 1.3 update for the Lemmini Conversions! All Download Links in the first post!

Critical visual update to l3_biolab + City, because of multiple background images!

Changes:

- l3-biolab: Has now a vertical + horizontal background image
- City: Has now 2 background images. The second one is the previous one now!
- castle: Added a brown background to increase detectablility of pices with black lines.

2893
NeoLemmix Main / Re: Nepster's rants about NeoLemmix styles
« on: October 05, 2016, 04:35:32 PM »
The OWW are forming a slightly shifted > or < in red/yellow in both cases so for me it is clear visible with animation that it is a OWW and not a laser trap.

The lowest row is cut of as it is mostly the case with OWW.


2894
This still occurs in 1.47 D! 

I had another instance of this while playing a long level rank 5 level 1 from Wafflems/Flopsys collab beta. I was not able to reproduce that, but now I have encountered another instance which I am able to reproduce and this could also help fining the source of the problem in the long "normal level".  "Normal" you may ask? Yes the level I am able to reproduce this is rank 1 level 6 from the same collab pack beta has no entrances just pre-placers.


Reproducing:

- go into the level and immidiatly pause
- create a replay by assining for example a miner and pause
- press R to replay, the game is still paused (important as the next assignment has to be on the first frame!)
- assign preferably a miner on the most left lemming to get the best visualisation
- after some time press R again ----> terrain is still removed!

Also works on all other-preplacers only levels where you can assign in the first frame!

As I checked in the editor this also works with a save state and going back to it! (preplacers only) :

(- make a savestate
- assign a skill after that
- pause and load the state --> terrain still removed)


ok this is still not the right reliable way to reproduce it, but I was also possible with savestate + creating a replay + pausing + returning to it :(   And I am pretty sure the buggy savestates + savestate load is the reason this is possible on "normal levels" as well! + maybe some instances of R pressing


The first way of reproducing only works on the level with pre-placed lemmings only!
But it also happens in a long normal level after a longer playtime while again pausing, framestepping and R pressing. This I am still not able to reproduce consistantly sadly :(

Hope the first way of reproducing leads to the root for all of those problems!


2895
While watching Flopsy's latest Sublem's video I noticed this. Standing OHNOER'S should enter the exit yes, that's desireable, but they should not be able direct drop into it. They should still need solid ground under the exit and must not have previleges above normal fallers!

Around 14:15 is such a situation using the Nuke to create the OHNOER'S.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK7Ad-Dcs84

Reprodcable through:

 - Nuking and letting lemmings fall right above the exit.
 - Using an exploder right above the exit on solid ground ----> triggering the animation. Then remove the terrain and let him direct drop into the exit.

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