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Messages - IchoTolot

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My difficulty report from Gronklings "Lemmings Evolution":

I think it's roughly the same difficulty as NepsterLems. I have beaten the complete beta version of the pack for a few fixing alterations until development was halted at the time. I would rate both packs as "Hard" in the rating. They definitly belong to the hardest packs out there despite only including the original skills.

I also picked up quite a few tricks and skills in there along the way. ;)

Contests / Lemmings Forums Level Contest #21 - Results
« on: December 02, 2020, 02:04:47 pm »
Ladies and gentleman, we've got our final results! :)

Well, how to make this a bit less awkward? I think I will just post this picture. ;P

The winning level was:

"Temple Of Escher"

Congratulation to Armani's 2 levels that tied on the 2nd place as well! :thumbsup:

"Marina Bay Sands"

You came in 2nd place last time and third before that, so I hope the trend continues and will will make it all the way next time! ;P

Choice for the prize for the first place is either:

- a month's advertising on the forum's news ticker
- picking the next contest's rules
- US $5.00 (PayPal would be the easiest here I think).

So I will be thinking about some nice rules for the next contest. ;)

V 4.6 is out!

No backroutes to fix in Pieuw's replays, but Reunion's menu has received a great upgrade in terms of logo and rank signs thanks to the effort of GigaLem and Plom! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Again, a big thank you for the "facelifted" menu! :thumbsup:

Little announcement:

As joshescue18 rejected the third and last price, I've decided to redirect it to namida as a little "thank you" gift for all the coding and maintenance for NL. And I think that's worth a little gift! :)

But for the moment, I'm just happy to see how many people have already downloaded the pack within just a couple of hours :lem-mindblown: . Looks like building the anticipation for two years really paid off!

Most visitors are silent here and don't have an account. Right now there are 60+ people here.

As I always say: Most impact from everything on here is silent and you will never know of it. ;P   This is an excellent example of that silent majority being recognizable!

The longest I've been stumped on any level of your LOA pack was about 1-1.5 hours

Then I would say "Medium-Hard".

I would think that "If kaywhyn and Armani struggled with some of these levels, I guess that means yes". But by now I've watched quite a few episodes of kaywhyn's Lemmings Migration LP, and I've understood that even an adept level solver can occasionally get stumped by packs that aren't considered horrendously difficult as a whole.

You would be surprized how fast you can struggle, but the better question is What does "struggle" mean. ???  I would define it as taking several hours to solve something and that 100% can happen even in Medium packs in my case.

For comparison, I would rank "Lemmings World Tour" as Medium. As I could breeze through most parts without much difficulty, while struggling on some levels. As an example, I found "MegSEGAbytes" more difficult and that's a "Medium-Hard" one.

If this is a step up and I would struggle on some more I would put it in "Medium-Hard" and if it has multiple levels stumping me for days then "Hard-Extreme".

If kaywhyn and Armani were stuck on quite a few levels for some days/weeks then definitly write "Hard-Extreme"! For comparison, this was the case on quite a few United levels.

But it's the easiest if they can just quickly post in here what gave them more trouble and how they would rate it as I haven't played it yet. :P

But currently it still seems to me as if everyone chooses whatever descriptions they want.

You can see almost all packs just use Easy- Medium - Hard - Extreme in the topic's title. (And Beginner for the Intro Pack ;))

Thanks for the replays, Pieuw! :thumbsup:    Will look through them soon. :)

So many huge levels!

I was and am still a fan of larger levels you have to work yourself through - if they are well made. Like not with hundreds of skills or too much spamming.

My levels grew a bit smaller over time though. The main thing responsible for many large levels back then: Lemmini!

Back when creating Reunion I still used quite a lot of "dead space" as the size was always 1600x160 and I wanted to fill that out with at least some decoration. :)

I just did not like all that empty space. ;P

I would recommed comparing the first rank of United or just the new NeoLemmix Intro Pack with Reunion and you will see my development over time. I still have large levels, especially in later ranks, but way less, usually less extreme and less dead space.

My philosophy now: Only use as much space as needed with maybe a bit extra for decoration, but don't shy away from making the level larger to fulfill your needs.

Congratulations to the release, Strato. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

One thing: What does Difficulty: 3 (Advanced) - 6 (Legend) mean in comparison to the normal ratings of the other packs ???

Maybe simply calling it Medium - Hard would fit better so it's in line with most of the rest. ;)

I played the pack a bit today and here is some feedback. Warning I will focus on stuff that can be improved here as these were the things that interrupted my enjoyment of playing the pack ;):

- First of all: The levels look really nice! :thumbsup:

-  I solved the first rank and parts of the last rank (1-8 + the last 2 levels) to get a feeling how this pack is difficulty wise. I would rank it simply as "Medium".

- The biggest thing to improve the pack would be: Throw out the timers! Out of the levels I solved the only nessesary timer I have seem would be: 1 11. That's it.
  So many times I had to rewind to: A) Increase the RR earlier while changing nothing else. B) Slightly change some assignments to save a couple extra seconds while still execution the same solution again.
  This just makes the pack a lot more annoying. Throw them out, put away the nostalgia that every level needs a timer. 95% of them don't need it and they make a otherwise good level way worse. Prime example: 1 05 where i had to rewind multiple times to turn up the RR again after I needed to change some assignments. Otherwise it was a good level!:)

- Some of the objects/tiles are very misleading. As they could be your personal additions I include the cases here in my feedback. If they are not your additions think about maybe replacing them:
  A) In 1 14 is fish is solid terrain. In 1 18 the fish is now a background object or even a trap. If it's your addition: Choose 1 for it and make it consistent!
  B) 1 15 the giant invisible updraft. I know what you want to emulate but because of the updraft I can't seee the trap's or exit's trigger area resulting in more frustraition. Also in 1 23 we also have a space level, but this time no low gravity.
  C) The invisible exit in 1 08 and 1 18! An exit should be visible from the start! Please, choose a locked exit that is visible.
  D) No one can see if this is a splat pad or an anti-splat pad. Please use the standard red one for clarity purpose.
  E) 6 08 - let's say I needed a while figure out what is happening here and how those custom invisible updrafts work. Simply use and extend a standard one to cover the rooms as this is really confusing.
--> General rule for tileset additions: Clarity over style! Nothing should be invisible or misleading.

- 1 20: Hidden trap! :devil: Make it visible!

- The difficulty is a bit over the place. 1 01 - 1 06 is way harder than 1 14, 1 16, 1 22 for example. The last level 6 22 I would not consider more difficult than 1 18 as well.

- I noticed quite the inflation with builders later on. Try to turn down the builderfests a bit in the future. ;)

My favorites so far were: 1 05 (without the timer), 6 04 and 6 05 :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I attached my replays so far and will continue playing soon. :)

NeoLemmix Levels / Re: [NeoLemmix] PimoLems [Difficulty: Medium]
« on: November 28, 2020, 09:53:53 am »
Seems like I've got a lot to check and fix when I start working on the patch after Swerdis videos are up. :)

Just now a bunch of SYCLW challenge replays came in as well.

Here is what we do:

The poll is set up again, but this time with only 1 vote for everybody.

So this is now a three-way final! ;)

V12.11 Skills / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] New skills general discussion
« on: November 27, 2020, 08:31:17 am »
1) If a skill is popular, a lot of people will use it, therefore lots of level ideas will be created. That's already loads of potential by itself, but you're pretty much also guaranteed to get quite a lot of decent puzzles out of this if so many different minds throw their hats in the ring.

Quantity does not automatically indicate quality. The base of what is used must have value in order to give the possibility of quality a chance.

2) If there were really something we would consider "bad for the game but popular"... well, wouldn't that just mean that the community consensus on what makes good level design shifts?

Not really. Even if we would get 1000 new members who would all be fire and flames for hidden objects and won't be convinced it doesn't make the concept any better. Just because a lot of people are on the side of A doesn't mean that A is good - you can see that on many examples in the real world.

Again, this just a statement on why popularity does not automatically go hand in hand with quality/potential/...... and nothing more.:8():

To underline my points here, here is an article about this:

They tried to proof a relationship between popularity and likely efficacy of an app. Quote of their conclusion:

"No relationship was found between popularity and likely efficacy suggesting that popularity does not assure high quality, and what is liked may not be what is likely to be effective."

I just watched your replays (half of it !), and I noticed a lot of backroutes (over 20). In fact, as I am not a professional, there are a lot of tricks that I didn't know and that I discovered since my registration on the forum (and with PimoLems pack, which I am playing).

I'll correct all of these mistakes, give you a detailed feedback, and update my level pack soon !
:thumbsup: ;P

I was planning on playing the pack this weekend, but I think it would be better to wait for your patch as then you can see if your fixes had the intended effect. :)

V12.11 Skills / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] New skills general discussion
« on: November 26, 2020, 10:17:52 pm »
I also think that the likes and dislikes of the new skills are quite distributed and not too centered. You can't really make out a skill hated by the majority for example.

Although this isn't just a popularity contest as the general potential can be different from the popularity.

Different levels from different people have been made with all skills showing all sorts of different behaviors and I think I need to make even more videos in the fututre as my 9 test levels are not enough. :D

This especially, I think, is a good point for the inclusion of all and again I prefer all of those skills above any of the new object ideas.

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