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Topics - IchoTolot

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In recent time it was more often than usual the case that some stable, but newer tilesets were missing from pack-downloads, as they are still missing in the standard library on the website.

To counteract this and ensuring a more up-to-date standard library, how about making ~ monthly NL styles folder updates? ???

I would suggest doing one right now, after gathering the missing ones in this topic first.

Missing ones would be:

- zanzindorf_agony                
- SQrons 2 new Turrican tilesets
- nin10doaddict's Ta lava set 
- nin10doaddict's Tetris attach set

I think Giga also has some new stable tilesets.

If I missed anything here, post the tileset! Let's get the standard library up-to-date again! ;)

I think Nessy and/or Nepster will be able to put the new library download up for the installer+styles link with no bigger problems. :P

A user wanted to make a rock level, but use the red-default OWWs instead of the standard grey ones the tileset posseses.

This wasn't possible, as even though they selected the desired tileset in the object selection bar, the red-default OWWs were replaced with the grey ones from the rock set.

What irritates me is the fact that you can choose any other custom OWWs (that are not L1 default) without problems in your rock level. I think it should also be possible to select all desired L1 default OWWs.

So here is the proposal:

- Don't change the standard/default L1 OWWs from the selected set in the object selection bar to the ones from the main set.

This will ensure the user can select not only every custom OWW at all times, but also all stanard/default L1 ones.

Contests / Lemmings Forums Level Contest #16
« on: November 13, 2018, 08:06:32 pm »
Welcome to another contest of the Lemmingsforums! This time the three rules have been picked by various people as Nessy decided to split up his rule choosing prize for winning an older contest.

A few words to new participants and forum members: If you haven't entered before, I strongly encourage you to try - even if you don't win, it's fun to participate; and we have had cases where first-time entrants have won before!; there are three choices of rules given, you may enter one level each for up to two of the rules.
You may either use new format NeoLemmix, or Lix.
If you have two entries, they may (but do not have to) be for the same engine. Please make sure you tested your level for basic solvability before submitting and be sure to also submit any custom tileset you are using, so others have no problem playing your level. ;)

Pre contest testing: You can choose 1 person who does a bit of pre-testing for you, so that the biggest backroutes and screw-ups of your levels can be detected before the playing phase. I cannot control this so it's only a guideline, but still I would prefer not everyone knows every level before the playing phase starts. ;)

Here are the rules on how the submission deadlines work:
- Initial submission phase deadline will extend such that it's 72 hours from the time of the last submission, up to the 5th submission (inclusive). After this it no longer changes no matter what.
- Update phase deadline will not extend over the initial dead line!
- Even if you missed the cutoff date for the initial submission phase, late entries are accepted until the update phase ends. There is no penalty for a late entry, beyond that people are less likely to spend as much time on the level before voting begins.

And here is the new ruleset:

Rule 1

Make a level whose height is at least three times as big as its width.

Basically the width is up to the creator and the height is whatever the chosen width is >= times 3. That is the only restriction.

Rule 2

Create a level with a time limit of at most 2 minutes.
The furthest hatch/pre-placed lemming that has to be saved must be at least 640 horizontal pixels away from the respected exit they must go to.  640 pixels = 2 screens, for Lix: 1280 pixels

Distance is measured by the basic object positions in the editor (bottom right corner in the NL editor) and not the exactly the spawn trigger/exit trigger positions here to simplify the distance rule.

I won't disqulify over slight inaccuracies by a few pixels, as long as the creator does not actively try to mess with the spirit of the rule. Also simply using teleporters to cover all of the distance isn't forbidden, but I would discourage it.

In Lix the intended solution has to be under 2 minutes and the timer's urge can be simulated with a hatch that needs external help near the exit in slightly under 2 minutes.
How to measure time in Lix: You can show phyus in Lix. 15 phyus are 1 sec. The level starts at 45 phyus. The first spawn is at 60 phyus.  You can show phyus by ticking the option in the tab "graphics". So the solution must be completed in under 1800 phyus.

Rule 3

Make a level with at least 3 hatches, no preplaced lems and no cloners, and the save requirement must be exactly equal to the number spawned by all but one hatch.

So basically save requirement for n hatches = Lemmings in n-1 hatches. With n >= 3.


- You must have at least 3 hatches
- If there are exactly 3 hatches, the save requirement must be 2/3 of the number of lemmings. It doesn't have to be 3 lems, save 2; it can be 6 and save 4, or 30 and save 20, or any other numbers in the same ratio.
- If there are exactly 4 hatches, the save requirement must be 3/4 of the number of lemmings; with 5 hatches, 4/5; and so on.

Submission phase ends Janurary 14th 2019 at 00:00 UTC. This should give everyone enough time to think about a level. :) Deadline for the playing / update phase will be announced when it begins.

Ruleset in detail again:

Send me a personal message with your level/s and if needed tileset/s to participate. It would also be nice to also tell me the rule which each level satisfies.

Prize selection:
- US $5.00
- One month's advertising on the forums news ticker
- Pick next contest's rules

Entries so far: 3

- nin10doaddict (1)
- Crane (2)

Today we've got a bit of nitpicking. ;)

The pack toolkit suggests under Title (second line):

"by Unknown Author"

In the main menu screen of the pack it is correctly displayed:

"by Unknown Author"

The level select screen however adds another "By" if you click on the pack there:

"By by Unknown Author"

So either:

- Remove the auto addition of the extra "By" in the level select screen. So users can put "by username" in the secondary title field as it is currently displayed.

- Add the addition of the extra "By" in the main menu screen as well. So users can put "username" in the secondary title field. The default display of "by Unknown Author" would need to change to "Unknown Author" then as well.

I solved a certain old format contest level exploiting this behavior. ;) This is still possible in new format NL though as the replay format didn't change.


- Load a level.
- Assign a skill to a lemming.
- Assign a 2nd skill on the very next frame (for simplicity purposes) to another Lemming.
- Save the replay.
- Close NL and open the replay file with a texteditor.
- Look at the 2 skills assigned and change the frame of the 2nd skill to the frame of the first, while updating the 2nd Lemming's position to the position the Lemming had on the frame before:


Original file:

  FRAME 85
  LEM_X 111
  LEM_Y 135
  LEM_DIR left
  ACTION builder

  FRAME 86
  LEM_X 209
  LEM_Y 151
  LEM_DIR right
  ACTION basher

After editing:

  FRAME 85
  LEM_X 111
  LEM_Y 135
  LEM_DIR left
  ACTION builder

  FRAME 85
  LEM_X 208
  LEM_Y 151
  LEM_DIR right
  ACTION basher

(I've attached an example file where the first 2 assignments are a double assign)

NL will accept and load the edited file and assign both skills in the same frame to their respective Lemmings. ;)

Fix proposal:

If we have multiple assignments in the same frame in a replay file: Only execute the first assignment, while all other assignments in the same frame will be ignored.

This fix will therefore trigger no NL error and it won't be noticable. This is only discovered anyways if a user deliberatly edits a replay file to do this, as double assignments are otherwise forbidden in the player.

So I don't remember if I reported this, so here it goes. ;P

As I finished the custom rank signs for my United test pack a few weeks ago, I tried to insert them into the pack toolkit and it gave me an error that something with the path format is wrong, in fact it was the same error Giga posted here:

So it seems like maybe the toolkit wants to save the rank signs in a wrong location or something like that (the correct thing would be putting the pngs into the respective rank folders). Or maybe can't handle different file names/ can't recognise the png's format....

After manually renaming my ranksign images to the used naming format and putting them into the right folders it worked anyway, but it seems inserting via toolkit is bugged. Prior I named them rankX_sign.png (X stands for the rank number) instead of the used name in the folder, but I expected the toolkit would rename the file properly and put it into the right position inside the pack.

I didn't checked, but this problem could also affect some other custom images, although I remember inserting the menu signs worked.

Contests / Lemmings Forums Level Contest #15 - Results
« on: October 14, 2018, 08:21:34 am »
Ladies and gentleman, we've got our final results! :)

Congratulations to Colorful Arty for winning the 15th Lemmings Forums Level Contest! :thumbsup: I think that's his first victory even. ;)

Also congratulations to SQron188 for reaching the 2nd place! :)

Choice for the prize for the first place is either :

- a month's advertising on the forum's news ticker
- picking the second-next contest's rules as Nepster will determine the rules for the next one
- US $5.00 (PayPal would be the easiest here I think).

LOTY 2017 has finally ended and the winner is: Flopsy's "Band of Merry Lemmings" (SEB Lems Stormy 1)

The runner up level was: Flopsy's "Medieval Mystery Zone" (SEB Lems Murder 17)

As in order to determine the next placed person I would need to set up a completely new big voteoff round between all other remaining Phase 3 contestants, the 2nd place money (7,50 USD) will be donated to the site to benefit our cause. :)

See you soon in LOTY 2018. ;)

We've got 6 final levels in this phase!

There will be 3 votings rounds (6-->4-->2-->1) with possible tiebreakers.

If you want to see the full list of nominated levels in non-randomized order, check the nominations list topic.
If you want to play these levels without having to dig up all the various level packs, check the playing phase topic which has an NXP available for download that contains all the nominated levels.

Please remember that discussing the nominated levels is not allowed in the LOTY2017 topics now that voting has begun. This does not apply to levels that have already been eliminated at the time. Discussing them elsewhere in the site is okay, as long as it's not in the context of LOTY2017.

Okay, so, by now most of you know how voting works.

Just as a quick guide for those who are new to the contests - the voting is broken into rounds, and each round you're allowed to vote for up to a certain number of levels. Votes are for the levels that you want to stay in the contest, not for levels you want to be removed. Just to be clear, you are allowed to vote for fewer levels than the permitted amount, and you are allowed to vote for your own levels. Generally, the number of levels that qualify for the next round will be the same as the number of levels that each user is allowed to vote for. The results so far are only visible once either the voting closes or you've already voted.

Please remember that discussing the levels anywhere on the forums (except private message) is not allowed while the voting phase is in progress, even if the level in question is not in the current round, even between rounds. However, it is okay to discuss levels that have already been eliminated. This rule does not extend to anything off-site, so you can eg. continue posting Youtube videos of your playthroughs, discuss in IRC chat, just don't draw attention to them on the forums.

There'll be voteoffs for each rule, to get down to one/two/three remaining levels each. After this, all qualifying levels will go into a mixed voteoff.
I've decided to keep the percentages of "surviving" levels of the rule-voteoffs somewhat similar to give every rule a fair chance. Example: A rule with a 66% survival-rate and one with a 33% survival-rate for the mixed rounds doesn't seem that fair to me.

There's only a prize for the 1st place winner - of course, getting close to that still means you made a great level.

So... let the voting begin! Each round will be open for voting for 3 days, except the final which will be 4 days.

All levels are still avialable in the discussion topic:

I was thinking about an issue that Strato mentioned about the new formats.

I agree with the current system that the empty space between the pre level screen information lines was too much in the old format and it made extracting that info more difficult.

Now I think we've got the other extrem though. The text is too dense and it affects the information extraction process as well. Also it looks a bit worse.

My suggestion: Try the middle ground! Maybe using only half or a third of the old formats empty space.

In my opinion both new and old format versions of the info text have their flaws and the middle ground could be the optimal solution for easily readable information here + it also could help improving the visual attractiveness. :)

18 levels have made it through to this third phase. We are gonna cut this number in down to 6 in this phase and the ramaining levels will be mixed into 1 final group for the last phase. :)

Every one of the 3 groups will have 2 voting rounds that will try to get the number of levels from 6 to 4 and finally down to 2!

If we have a tie there will be tiebreakers.

If you want to see the full list of nominated levels in non-randomized order, check the nominations list topic.
If you want to play these levels without having to dig up all the various level packs, check the playing phase topic which has an NXP available for download that contains all the nominated levels.

Please remember that discussing the nominated levels is not allowed in the LOTY2017 topics now that voting has begun. This does not apply to levels that have already been eliminated at the time. Discussing them elsewhere in the site is okay, as long as it's not in the context of LOTY2017.

I just watched a replay today where a 90 lem cluster exited the same time ---> earrape via a nextremely loud "Yippie!".

Even with only 5 lems or so the sound can be kinda unnessesary loud.

Suggestion: Regardles of the number of lems exiting at the same time just play the normal "Yippie!" sound or stop the amplifying already at ~2 lems. That also counts for a lemming train exiting right behind each other and the sounds overlap.

Nepster told me he doesn't know about the how that lem entering sound works.

@namida: Could you mabe give some insight here on how to edit this? ???


- Get NL to crash (for example through renaming a levelfile in a pack and starting it).

- After the error messages NL has vanished on the deaktop.

- Open the task-manager.

- In there NL still runs and eats resources + this effect can stack multiple times.

Note: This topic is ONLY for posting updates to your levels, or making late submissions. All other posts will be deleted. If you want to discuss the levels, post replays, etc, please do so in the Discussion Topic.

Please follow these rules for updates:
1. When posting a new updated version of a level, remove any old updated versions of that level --> Have all your recent updates stored in 1 post! I will delete such old posts eventually if the author doesn't; so don't store any important information in them.
2. Make a new post for a new update; do not edit your most recent post. You may, however, post updates to multiple entries (if you have more than one) in the same post.
3. Use the same filename as found in the ZIP of the entered levels, with "V2" "V3" etc added at the end. No matter how minor an update is, give it a new number.
4. Do not post in this topic, unless it's to post an update to your levels. Use the discussion topic instead for anything else.

Please use the same naming format as in the zip file:  User1_R3V5.lvl      ---> Level by User1   for Rule 3   Version 5 of the level     The levels name does not exist in the file name!
                                                  For Rule 1  this time:  User1_R1L1V5.lvl ---> L1/L2 stands for the level. You can see in the NL pack which level is which. They are sorted chronologically.           

For late submissions also, please use the same kind of filename as is used in the main levels download - ie: your username, and "R1" "R2" or "R3" to mark which rule the level is for. Remember that the maximum-of-two-levels-per-user rule still applies, even for late submissions. Please be sure to check the original contest announcement topic for the rules; as the notes in the discussion topic are simply meant as reminders, not full explanations of the rules.

Please use the  right naming when posting updates! That would be less confusions and less work for everyone. ;)

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