Where should the Random Level Topic sit?

[Simon]

Hi,

namida wondered: Should the Random Level Sharing Topic continue to sit in In Development, or should it move to NeoLemmix Levels?

Rules for the Level Packs board: namida recommends one topic per user for loose levels (= levels that aren't due for a concrete pack). These loose-level topics go into NeoLemmix Levels, not into In Development. In that light, it makes sense that Random Levels is also on NeoLemmix Levels, not on In Development. It's essentially the union of the loose-levels topics from users who don't keep a loose-levels topic.

That would mean that there 4 ways to release levels:

• Levels: Random levels by random authors.
  
• Levels: Xyz's levels.
  
• Levels: OhYesNoLems by Xyz.
  
• In Development: OhYesNoLems WIP by Xyz.

Points 1 and 2 are now consistent, that's nice. But makes In Development feel strange: You post your levels on Levels, unless you believe they'll go into a level pack, then you don't post your levels in Levels. ... and instead in In Development.

Maybe there should be three boards: Loose Levels (for the Random topic and the per-author loose levels), Packs In Development, and Released Packs?

• Loose Levels: Random levels by random authors.
  
• Loose Levels: Xyz's levels.
  
• Packs In Development: OhYesNoLems WIP by Xyz.
  
• Released Packs: OhYesNoLems by Xyz.
  

Onboarding new users is clear either way. There is a recommended way to release however much you have.

-- Simon

[Silken Healer]

Why is https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=7593.0 and https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=7585.15 in "In Development" and not "NeoLemmix Levels"?

namida wondered: Should the Random Level Sharing Topic continue to sit in In Development, or should it move to NeoLemmix Levels?

100% move it to NeoLemmix Levels, makes no sense in "In Development" whatsoever

That would mean that there 4 ways to release levels:

• Levels: Random levels by random authors.
• Levels: Xyz's levels.
• Levels: OhYesNoLems by Xyz.
• In Development: OhYesNoLems WIP by Xyz.

[/list]

Points 1 and 2 are now consistent, that's nice. But makes In Development feel strange: You post your levels on Levels, unless you believe they'll go into a level pack, then you don't post your levels in Levels. ... and instead in In Development.

Maybe there should be three boards: Loose Levels (for the Random topic and the per-author loose levels), Packs In Development, and Released Packs?

• Loose Levels: Random levels by random authors.
• Loose Levels: Xyz's levels.
• Packs In Development: OhYesNoLems WIP by Xyz.
• Released Packs: OhYesNoLems by Xyz.

[/list]

Onboarding new users is clear either way. There is a recommended way to release however much you have.

I think the former list is fine honestly. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

[namida]

Points 1 and 2 are now consistent, that's nice. But makes In Development feel strange: You post your levels on Levels, unless you believe they'll go into a level pack, then you don't post your levels in Levels. ... and instead in In Development.

My thoughts here:

The random levels topic is not an ongoing project as such. It's a place to share smaller things that aren't significant enough to have their own individual topics. Each thing released there is (at least to the same extent as a completed pack that would be posted in NeoLemmix Levels) a finished work being released. There's no larger project it's part of to wait for; it just isn't big enough to warrant its own topic.

A pack on the other hand, is a project that levels form a part of. It might indeed just be a collection of levels, or it might have other associated assets. Even when it is just levels, it's usually more than just the sum of its parts - the levels will often be organised, possibly into sub-groups, or maybe just an ordering. For that matter, preview content is not always playable levels - it may be video footage or screenshots to show off new styles, for example. In this sense, I see the In Development topics as being more about announcing and sharing the progress of in-development projects, rather than specifically an additional venue for sharing levels.

And of course - it's not like we're going to say "no, you posted this level in a topic in the main board, so now you aren't allowed to put it in a pack that gets posted on In Development".

If there are enough (user)'s levels topics to warrant it, I think a "Loose Levels" board would be worthwhile. I don't think we should create one right away (edit for clarity: this is just me giving input, not me saying "it's not happening"), but keep the option open if such topics become more common. This does raise the question of whether it's fair to give large packs the "default" status by making them the main board, or whether it may be preferable to also give them a sub-board, and make the main board solely a container for the sub-boards, with only administrative posts. I personally don't think it's a huge issue - the loose levels sub-board would be displayed prominently within the main levels board, above even the sticky topics, so it's essentially just like splitting the Random Levels topic into an entire sub-board.

However, this could in turn raise the question of what exactly "In Development" should be a sub-board of at that point, but I think a different consideration answers that question: Nesting boards that deep would be messy, let's keep it as a sub-board of the main "container".

EDIT: To avoid any doubt, I will mention that I feel the "Loose Levels" board (I prefer this name, less potential to mistake it for "randomly generated") should have a one-topic-per-user rule. Common sense / staff discretion can of course be applied if there's a case that genuinely doesn't quite fit with that; a possibility that comes to mind being if two creators begin regularly releasing loose collab levels together.

[WillLem]

Honestly, I think we should just get rid of the "In Development" board. If authors wish to release unfinished work, maybe we could encourage the practice of a [WIP] topic in the regular "Levels" board which subsequently gets deleted when the finished product is ready. This would help to reduce Forum clutter and seems good practice anyway.

Beyond that, I also agree with Silken that the current setup isn't really broken.

We'd then have:

Levels: Random levels by random authors.
Levels: Xyz's levels.
Levels: OhYesNoLems by Xyz.
Levels: [WIP] OhYesNoLems by Xyz.

That keeps all levels on a single board.

Then again, if the concern is that everything on a single board makes stuff harder to find, is there a way to automatically index everything that gets added to the board (or, at least, finished packs)? If not, then maybe a "Loose" board and a "Packs" board might be the best way to go. I'd then suggest that [WIP] should go in "Loose", since any levels released there are technically not part of a finished pack at that point.

[GigaLem]

Honestly, I think we should just get rid of the "In Development" board. If authors wish to release unfinished work, maybe we could encourage the practice of a [WIP] topic in the regular "Levels" board which subsequently gets deleted when the finished product is ready. This would help to reduce Forum clutter and seems good practice anyway.

Very Hard Disagree

The in development board help keeps things discern between currently in the works packs that haven't released yet and pack that have been released, there is also history in the development of the pack even if the topic is locked and removing that would mean removing that history.

I rather the in development board stay as it allows discussion and showcase of what is currently in the works, being that an unfinished work hasn't been release because its still in active development and isn't ready to be released. Removing that board would mean where is 10+ years of history going to go? I rather not lose that important history because it "reduces clutter" or merge that board with the released packed making it harder to index what is and isn't released. What exists isn't broken, we shouldn't try to fix it

I apologize if I come off as angry in my tone, but getting rid of something that shouldn't be rid of is the point where I need speak up and reject any idea of removing something that has been perfectly fine and helpful since its creation

[Proxima]

Honestly, I think we should just get rid of the "In Development" board. If authors wish to release unfinished work, maybe we could encourage the practice of a [WIP] topic in the regular "Levels" board which subsequently gets deleted when the finished product is ready. This would help to reduce Forum clutter and seems good practice anyway.

Very strong disagree from me too. "In Development" topics are not just a place for authors to post progress updates; they are a place for other users to discuss the in-progress pack, post feedback and replays. Keeping the old topic when a pack is finished and released is useful for the author, and interesting for everyone else. But the old topics need to be kept out of the way so it's easier to find finished packs, and a sub-board is the perfect de-cluttering solution for that.

[namida]

I rather the in development board stay as it allows discussion and showcase of what is currently in the works, being that an unfinished work hasn't been release because its still in active development and isn't ready to be released. Removing that board would mean where is 10+ years of history going to go? I rather not lose that important history because it "reduces clutter" or merge that board with the released packed making it harder to index what is and isn't released. What exists isn't broken, we shouldn't try to fix it

I will put my foot down on one thing here:

Whatever happens, the existing topics will remain available somewhere - whether in an archived sub-board, or moved to a consolidated board, or exactly as they are now.