Author Topic: Join development team  (Read 7336 times)

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Offline yoyoz

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Join development team
« on: June 01, 2023, 08:41:58 AM »
Hello,
i have discovered neolemming 2 days ago. Im very happy to see this, and I am very happy to share this game with my son in 2023.
I want to fix some bugs. Im developper (PHP, JS, and old VB6). I dont know delphi, but i try to compile sources.
I have added GR32 lib, and now when i compile: i have a lot of errors :[dcc32 Erreur] LemGame.pas(3005): E2010 Types incompatibles : 'Cardinal' et 'TColor32'

Can you help me to fix this? Maybe later, i can fix some issues to improve your game.
Thanks

Offline WillLem

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2023, 01:51:42 PM »
Hello,
i have discovered neolemming 2 days ago. Im very happy to see this, and I am very happy to share this game with my son in 2023.

Hi, welcome to the Forums :)

I want to fix some bugs. Im developper (PHP, JS, and old VB6). I dont know delphi, but i try to compile sources.
I have added GR32 lib, and now when i compile: i have a lot of errors

I've posted some instructions for compiling NL source here; I had most of the same issues when I first tried to compile, but namida (NL dev) helped me through the process with these instructions.

If you're interested in helping with development, I'm currently working on a fork of NeoLemmix called SuperLemmix (the source can be found here, the compilation instructions given above are exactly the same for this). I would definitely be welcoming of help/input from other developers if you're wanting to get involved and work on it as part of a team.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 01:58:25 PM by WillLem »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2023, 06:42:29 PM »
Hello,
i have discovered neolemming 2 days ago. Im very happy to see this, and I am very happy to share this game with my son in 2023.
I want to fix some bugs. Im developper (PHP, JS, and old VB6). I dont know delphi, but i try to compile sources.
I have added GR32 lib, and now when i compile: i have a lot of errors :[dcc32 Erreur] LemGame.pas(3005): E2010 Types incompatibles : 'Cardinal' et 'TColor32'

Can you help me to fix this? Maybe later, i can fix some issues to improve your game.
Thanks


Welcome to the forums! :)

I would also like to add that if you are planning to fix bugs please first make a topic about what you would consider fixing.

For new versions we first discuss if a thing is indeed in need of fixing or even the way it should be fixed. Especially if we are talking physics updates!

Maybe take a look through the "Bugs&Suggestions" board first and see how things usually develop.

The normal way would be:

1.) Report issue in a topic.
2.) Discussion + Decision
3.) For critical things (usually physics): Implement fix in an experimental version for public test.
4.) If test is successful and no bigger problems arise -> Implement the fix in the next version.

Offline yoyoz

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2023, 07:59:30 PM »
Thanks you for your help.
i can compile it now.

I have created an issue here: https://bitbucket.org/namida42/neolemmixplayer/issues/81/when-you-restart-a-level-same-actions
There is a problem when you click on restart button: Same actions are replay. I have fixed it.
But for the moment, i havent found where fix when you restart the level with the menu screen.


Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2023, 08:24:44 PM »
Thanks you for your help.
i can compile it now.

I have created an issue here: https://bitbucket.org/namida42/neolemmixplayer/issues/81/when-you-restart-a-level-same-actions
There is a problem when you click on restart button: Same actions are replay. I have fixed it.
But for the moment, i havent found where fix when you restart the level with the menu screen.

That is intended if you are referring to the restart button in the UI. This button is not a restart, but a "replay" button.

If you restart/replay a level your previous actions are still saved and replayed until you stop the replay with a simple left-click inside the play-area.

This avoids you accidentally throwing away all your progress in a level as that can be very frustraiting after accidentally losing your progress on a longer level - or you just want to change your approach from a certain point on in your current attempt.

The replay-mode is indicated through red "R" on the left side of the status bar.

Offline yoyoz

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2023, 08:47:41 PM »
Sorry, i dont know it.
Do you have a documentation for features like this, UI buttons , netplay ... ?

Thanks

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2023, 09:02:17 PM »
I made a manual ages ago, but I fear it is a quite outdated currently. (Link to it, but no promises here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4081.0)

I would rather suggest playing the NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (Link: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5204.0) that also covers most new NeoLemmix features and a lot of tricks. This should be the best way to get comfortable with the engine and Lemmings in general.

To be honest, I think you are currently the first to ask for a complete documentation and go straight to the code. ;)

If you have any questions though feel free to create a topic or maybe even join and ask on our discord server: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3062.0

Offline Simon

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2023, 10:44:16 PM »
The glaring bug here is that NeoLemmix doesn't tell how to cancel the replay (click into the air). I'm beginning to think that NeoLemmix should write that in big fat letters during replay.

You aren't the first to be confused on how to cancel the replay. I've heard about this confusion in Lix at least once before, and in NeoLemmix IIRC also another time before. It's a terrible problem. It has the potential to discourage new players from the hobby, and they'll never ask about it.

Welcome to the forums!

-- Simon

Offline WillLem

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2023, 01:40:38 AM »
But for the moment, i havent found where fix when you restart the level with the menu screen.

I have already fixed this in SuperLemmix, it's been implemented as both a baked-in feature of Classic Mode and as a toggleable option, so users can have whichever behaviour they prefer.

You're welcome to use the same fix if you wish, let me know if you want some help with it.

Offline namida

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2023, 03:44:09 AM »
There's no "fix" because this is not a bug; it's the intended behavior.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2023, 06:25:20 AM »
There is a discussion to be had if and how it can be visually more striking. The red "R" relies much on the user's familiarity with WinLems where the replay mode is also used.

There I agree with Simon. --> Even lix would run into the same problem as he explained! :8():   (Although the blinking is a little bit more striking there)

But yeah, WillLem's fix is not a fix but rather a toggable removal that does not fix the core Issue (replay-mode not being recognisable enough).
Even worse: By simply turning it off from the start a user would never experience the upsides of having it assisting you!

When it is visible from the get-go what's going on here then there would be nothing more to fix and no more confusion.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2023, 11:54:26 AM »
I don't have too much experience with Lix myself, but from what I have seen from the times I have played with it, what I like about Lix, in contrast to NL, is how the hotkeys for everything are all on the screen for you. Therefore, you don't have to worry what they are in case you forget. Yes, it is quite cluttered as a result, but it does make the UI more user-friendly. It even tells you when you're in replay mode to click to cancel. Not so in NL. The other way to cancel replay mode is with the C key, but I never use that. I always use mouse clicks to cancel replay mode.

At the same time, because I'm so used to the hotkeys of NL, I ended up changing all of Lix's to match NL's, meaning FF is F, Restart is R, etc. The one thing I do miss is the lack of a hotkey for "last skill assigned," as I find it super helpful when I'm LPing NL content. Of course, this will likely be a problem when doing Lix multiplayer, but that's because I haven't settled on a hotkey configuration for the skills, and in NL I don't ever use hotkeys to select skills, I always use the mouse to do so. Yea, I'm a bit of an odd horse this way :P I guess I just find it quicker to click with the mouse and how I'm more used to playing that way instead of with hotkeys.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2023, 05:01:24 PM »
I don't have too much experience with Lix myself, but from what I have seen from the times I have played with it, what I like about Lix, in contrast to NL, is how the hotkeys for everything are all on the screen for you. Therefore, you don't have to worry what they are in case you forget. Yes, it is quite cluttered as a result, but it does make the UI more user-friendly. It even tells you when you're in replay mode to click to cancel. Not so in NL. The other way to cancel replay mode is with the C key, but I never use that. I always use mouse clicks to cancel replay mode.

At the same time, because I'm so used to the hotkeys of NL, I ended up changing all of Lix's to match NL's, meaning FF is F, Restart is R, etc. The one thing I do miss is the lack of a hotkey for "last skill assigned," as I find it super helpful when I'm LPing NL content. Of course, this will likely be a problem when doing Lix multiplayer, but that's because I haven't settled on a hotkey configuration for the skills, and in NL I don't ever use hotkeys to select skills, I always use the mouse to do so. Yea, I'm a bit of an odd horse this way :P I guess I just find it quicker to click with the mouse and how I'm more used to playing that way instead of with hotkeys.

IIRC the C hotkey almost got culled, and as far as I know I might be the only one that uses it.

I think a lot of people use the mouse to select skills in NL though; the learning curve for the hotkeys is fairly steep because of how much separation there is between where you can look up the hotkeys and where you can actually apply them. In Lix, if you don't remember the hotkey, you can just look at the button and then press the button it says. In NL you have to completely stop playing to go to the options menu and check, which probably means going back to the main menu (I forget if you can access it or not during gameplay, but while we're on the topic of forgetting what the hotkeys were, it doesn't really matter if it's accessible in-game or not if you gotta go back to the main menu to be able to produce the options menu without a hotkey). That's why it's much faster to click with the mouse in NL: technically if you knew the skill hotkeys, it would be faster, but the lookup process is insanely long.

The old "push buttons until you figure out what they do" approach really only works well on console games where there's not that many buttons to choose from. The keyboard has far too many buttons for that.

Offline WillLem

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2023, 10:50:31 PM »
There's no "fix" because this is not a bug; it's the intended behavior.

I understand that. My own use of the word "fix" was mainly responding to the OP's use of the word in reference to the undesired behaviour. Either way though, it's a figure of speech; if someone perceives the behaviour as undesirable, despite it being intended, then their perception will probably also be that the behaviour has been "fixed".

EDIT - heh, I'm sure there will be people who consider SLX "broken" now that direct drop and solid sides are back ;P

But yeah, WillLem's fix is not a fix but rather a toggable removal that does not fix the core Issue (replay-mode not being recognisable enough)

There are plans to display the animated "R" graphics on screen (like in WinLemm and SuperLemmini) so I'm pretty sure this will make it clear enough what's going on; I can already draw stuff to the screen, I just need to figure out how to to it at specific times, and for specific durations. It's on its way, though.

A popup the first time it happens could also be a good idea, but - as has been said - more discussion is needed around those kind of specifics.

By simply turning it off from the start a user would never experience the upsides of having it assisting you!

This is intentional, since SuperLemmix is about presenting the game in a more traditional fashion without losing any of the modern advantages - it's in response to those people who have complained about NeoLemmix's entering Replay mode automatically. Even if you know how to cancel it, it can still sometimes be undesirable. i get your point though, anyone that doesn't venture into the settings menu might miss the fact that the feature exists at all, but that's true of any setting that isn't activated by default.

Even worse:

It literally isn't worse. Making any highly visible/gameplay-affecting behaviour optional is nearly always preferable. With that said, if an agreement can be reached on how best to handle "enter auto-Replay mode even when player doesn't have any reason to expect it", then I'll likely revert to having the option on by default.

Either way, it's not a problem. I'm more than happy to respond to feedback in order to make SuperLemmix as good as it can be.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2023, 11:23:10 PM by WillLem »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Join development team
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2023, 11:31:42 PM »
WillLem I think you need to see that I don't make any change suggestions or general proposals for SuperLemmix here! :8(): (This is the NL board after all ;))

So you do not need to defend your SLX design decisions before me here - do as you please there!


The only thing I stated is that for NL your "fix" made in SuperLemmix is not a fix at all and would make things even worse when keeping NL's core puzzle-centric philosophy in mind.

I see replay-mode as an integral part of it and even the option to toggle it off as secondary or even cullable (as turning off skill shadows). Again, NL only! SLX you can go ahead!

Therefore, the only discussion I am interested in is making the replay-mode clearer to notice in NL for newer players who are so far only used to execution-based engines.