Author Topic: Lemmings Quartet (v1.5) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]  (Read 2856 times)

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Offline Apjjm

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Lemmings Quartet (v1.5) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]
« on: October 11, 2021, 12:22:28 AM »


Lemmings usually gather in great numbers to form massive communities...
But in this level pack there are only 4!
Can you guide them through 18 levels using the original 8 skills?
:lemming: :lemming: :lemming: :lemming:

Difficulty: Medium - Hard
If you have completed another community pack you should find most of the levels approachable.
Though some of the later ones will hopefully be a nice challenge for even the more experienced solvers!

Levels
The pack contains a total of 25 levels: 18 in the main rank and 7 extra.
Main rank levels primarily use original/ohno styles, but do take some extra decoration from the lemmings 2 styles in places.


A shell game


Broken warpgate

Music (Optional)
Music download

The levels will look for some ocremix music in 'music/ocremix'. Music credits are in the spoiler below as well as in the zip.
If you do plan on including the music in a video, do check the content policy (There is also a content id list there too).

Thanks to
  • WillLem for multiple playtests and feedback
  • Proxima for a really helpful playtest
  • Namida for help & advice
  • NieSch for a talisman solution to level 12
  • Armani for finding backroutes & resolving levels after a few rounds of fixes
  • Kaywhyn for the great playthrough and talisman solution to level 5

Change log
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 09:18:20 PM by Apjjm »
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline NieSch

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2021, 08:04:15 AM »
Congrats on releasing the pack! It looks (and sounds) really good and the difficulty suits me well.
My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2021, 09:03:44 AM »
I already said it on Discord, but I'll say it here as well: Congratulations on the release of your pack! :thumbsup: This is definitely on my to-play list, as soon as I get through some of my planned LPs of other level packs first. When I get to this, I for sure will link you to my LP! I'm happy to hear that you enjoy them :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline WillLem

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2021, 03:07:20 PM »
This is an excellent pack, I am happy to have helped playtest this one and can warmly recommend it. Needless to say, I wasn't able to solve the harder levels in this pack, but I had great fun trying, and I enjoyed watching Apjjm's replays (to see if I could help with backroute-proofing, of course!) :lemcat:

The difficulty works its way up gradually throughout the pack for the most part. It starts with some lighter puzzles that the more casual players amongst us can have some fun with, and is later peppered with some super-hard brainteasers for the more expert solvers, climaxing with a more open-ended romper stomper to finish the pack in classic style.

All levels feature classic-8 skillsets only, which is becoming increasingly rare to see in custom packs so it's been inspiring to see these used in a fresh and interesting way. The levels also use only the original 9 styles in a similarly innovative way, combining multiple styles together throughout and creating some lovingly detailed "map art" which adds to the atmosphere of the pack.

The "Quartet" theme is also quite an attractive feature, with all levels featuring no more than 4 lemmings. Some of them only feature 3, which was confusing at first, but then I thought it might be realised it was because because the lem count is cumulative (i.e. as 1 lemming dies, the remaining levels only feature the remaining lems from the original 4). This would have been a particularly good way to explore the concept further, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Nevertheless, All of the levels use the limited lem count in an interesting way, almost always requiring work to be done by at least 2 or more of the lemmings in order to bring the often remarkably complex solutions together.

My favourite pack of 2021 so far, and one I hope to remix in a future project involving only community packs :thumbsup:



Post edited following Apjjm's confirmation that the lem count is, in fact, cumulative. Nice work! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 12:29:35 AM by WillLem »

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2021, 04:44:18 PM »
Thanks for the comments so far!

kaywhyn I will absolutely be looking forward to watching your playthrough :)

WillLem Thanks again for all the help playtesting & feedback with the pack. Regarding your later point
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline WillLem

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 12:31:15 AM »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In that case, give yourself another gold star. This is an awesome idea! :thumbsup:

Offline NieSch

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2021, 01:02:50 PM »
I solved the first ten levels now except for level 8. Nice puzzles! My favorite solution so far is of level 9.
My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2021, 04:42:23 PM »
I solved the first ten levels now except for level 8. Nice puzzles! My favorite solution so far is of level 9.

Nice going so far - you have either the intended solutions or nice alternatives in all the replays :thumbsup:. I really liked your solution to level 6 - I didn't think you could make that work at first!


Edit:
I have updated the pack to V1.0.1. These are minor cosmetic changes to a few levels. The most notable is to level 8, where there is more detailing added to some unreachable decorative rocks, and the eraser spots have been tidied up a little in a few places. Any replays already produced should still work unless they were doing something very surprising!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 07:52:46 PM by Apjjm »
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline NieSch

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 04:22:39 PM »
I'm struggling with the second part of the levels. I found these three solutions so far. I'm sure the solution to the penultimate level (Phantom breakout) is not intended, it seems too easy. :)
My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2021, 07:18:02 PM »
I'm struggling with the second part of the levels. I found these three solutions so far. I'm sure the solution to the penultimate level (Phantom breakout) is not intended, it seems too easy. :)
The second half of the pack does really start to ramp up the difficulty compared to the earlier ones (15-17 in particular), but you have made great progress so far!

I really liked your solution to n-body problem!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Castle on the coast is a fine solution given the skillset but isn't using a key element I had originally intended. I will have a think about this one and see If i can make an adjustment to this level or the skillset.

Phantom breakout is very much not intended and I'm a bit gutted I didn't spot this one! I think I know how to fix it so should have an updated version out soon enough.
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Armani

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2021, 02:31:20 AM »
I solved the pack. I'm impressed with all your artistic creativity here and I especially love cherry blossom tree made with marble tiles. :thumbsup:

There're probably some backroutes here and there though.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2021, 11:15:52 PM »
Thanks for playing through Armani & great job solving them all :thumbsup:. There were some backroutes in there which I have hopefully fixed in V1.1!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


I have updated the pack based on the solutions so far - changes in V1.1
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 11:29:01 PM by Apjjm »
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Armani

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2021, 12:16:17 PM »
I resolved the updated levels 8-)

Wow these levels are very nice! :thumbsup:
I think it's really hard to make a challenging puzzle level which is also aesthetically beautiful but you managed to do so.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2021, 04:54:51 PM »
I just watched the replays & I'm happy you liked the levels!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2021, 12:33:46 AM »
I have updated the pack to V1.2.0 :lemming:

I have added one extra bonus level (to bring the total to 25), and pre-text for the existing 'extra' levels with some trivia about why they are in the extra rank.

This update also has the following fixes / adjustments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Armani

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2021, 12:48:52 AM »
resolved updated 3 levels ;)
I attached my entire replays but you only need to check Quartet13,15 and 16.

I think 13 and 16 are now intended but 15 is still a backroute.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2021, 02:41:28 PM »
Both 13 & 16 are the intended solutions :thumbsup:. Your solution to the new extra level is clever too!

As you said, 15 is still not as intended (though it isn't exactly a mile away). I will have a bit of a think about how to adjust that shelf area a little more - hopefully a small change is enough to do the trick.

Thanks for taking the time to replay the levels after the fixes - on the next update I will make sure to add a thanks for the resolves after finding the backroutes!

Edit: Have now updated to V1.3 - This changes the skillset a little and does some terrain shuffling on level 15. Most of this isn't about fixing the backroute - though there is now an addition which should hopefully prevent it. I have also done some decorative improvements to level 6.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2021, 10:59:03 PM by Apjjm »
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Armani

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Re: Lemmings Quartet (v1.3) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2021, 05:24:41 AM »
Resolved level15
I think this is finally intended!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet (v1.3) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2021, 12:36:56 PM »
That is the intended solution for level 15 :thumbsup:

You are the first person to solve all the levels in the pack with the intended solutions that I know of - fantastic solving! Thanks again for sharing the replays/feedback on the levels, and re-visiting levels that have had fixes too.
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Lemmings Quartet (v1.3) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2022, 10:16:10 AM »
Hi Apjjm,

I have completed Lemmings Quartet, so I have attached my entire replay collection for the pack. You already know, but I will still go ahead and link my LP of the pack so others can watch it!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJsUp6ca6Oh-z-7I-wUlcYf9

General Feedback

For a very modern level pack, this uses only the classic 8 skills. Even then, don't take this to mean that the pack is considerably easier than the packs that use NL exclusive skills, because some of the later levels in the Quartet rank are quite difficult. Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with Apjjm's classification of the difficulty for the pack being Medium-Hard is very accurate here! I even noticed Nepster/Icho design/puzzle vibes while LPing the pack, as there was still a lot of deception in these levels, not in the visual designs, but red herrings. This might be one of the few packs in which no level needed more than one LP video to get solved, but solving times did slow considerably starting around the halfway point of the first rank. This is also the very first time I have ever played any levels by Apjjm, so I didn't know how hard his levels could get. Now I know, he's definitely capable of making deceivingly difficult ones. However, these were the really good kind of challenging for the most part, and some of the hardest levels of the pack end up being my favorites, for which I will definitely put in my nominations for LOTY! :thumbsup:

This is also the very first pack I LPed after a long 2-month hiatus from the game, so I was initially fearful that I had lost my touch with solving levels in the game. However, it is likely evident that's not so at all, as I went through the pack much faster than I thought I would. My struggles with many of the later levels were still there, though. Not necessarily a bad thing, just simply means it wasn't all smooth sailing.

Apjjm also puts a lot of attention to details in his designs, as I was very blown-away by how excellent the visuals in his levels are! Thus, not only would I highly recommend this wonderful pack for others to play because of the many great puzzles, but even if you're not able to solve all of them, at least the levels are great to look at!

Quartet Rank Feedback

All very interesting levels IMO. While the pack doesn't start off super easy, the early levels are still reasonably and much easier than some of the later levels. In particular, they get quite difficult near the end of the rank. The pack starts with several open-ended levels before getting into levels with specific solutions with very limited skillsets close to the midpoint of the rank, culminating in 3 very difficult levels before the final one. My favorites of the rank: Quartet 4, Quartet 7, Quartet 16, and Quartet 17. The last one especially, as IMO that is the best one I have played and solved in the longest time. All visually great ones, but I especially love the visuals of Quartet 6, Quartet 9, Quartet 10, Quartet 12, Quartet 14, Quartet 15, Quartet 16, and Quartet 18. Quartet 5 gets bonus points from me because of how I love math and Apjjm did great with the geometry shapes on it ;) Same with Quartet 12, because I love astronomy myself in addition to math. The planets on that level were done well!

More detailed feedback:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Extra Rank Feedback

The difficulty pretty much resets back to easy but the levels still get progressively difficult as one moves forward in the rank. Most of the levels here are the original versions of the levels found in the Quartet rank. Some of them come from the now cancelled Aqualems pack. In particular, Extra 1 and Extra 3 were originally from there, as indicated by the level title prefixed by (Aqua). Except for Extra 1, Extra 2, and Extra 5, the rest are based from the level found in the Quartet rank, as can be seen in how very similar the designs are. In a way, I feel they are harder than the ones in the Quartet rank, so I don't know if Apjjm originally wanted a very hard level but then decided to make them easier for the Quartet rank. Even then, they weren't much of a problem, as I ended up getting through all 7 of the levels in the same video.

My favorite of the rank was Extra 3 - (Aqua) Delay line lemmory, with Extra 1 - (Aqua) Four lemming fiesta a close second for favorite, while Extra 5 - Take it up a level I really like visually, especially the pulley thingies lol. Interesting how my favorites ended up being the Aqua ones :laugh:

More detailed feedback:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Overall, a very well-done pack, and as I said before I highly recommend your pack for others to play! :thumbsup: This level pack earns a spot on my all-time favorites list. Thank you very much for this pack, Apjjm. I absolutely enjoyed it from start to finish. I look forward to future content from you, as well as trying out your contest entries! :)     
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet (v1.4) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2022, 12:16:16 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback and the great videos Kaywhyn! It is really nice to be able to see how you go about solving the levels in addition to the final solutions, and I'm happy to hear you enjoyed your time with the pack. I did leave a comment with thoughts on each of the solutions in your videos, but I will also include it below too:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have now updated the pack to V1.4 to make the improvements & backroute fixes that came up during your playthrough. I have attached the previous version of the pack to this post, so that future visitors to this topic can run the replays above against the levels. The full changelog for V1.4:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Finally, because I was interested I put together a program to find out the full style-set & terrain peice count for the pack. A breakdown is included below:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you want to run the code yourself against your own packs, I have put the source code on github for the tool.
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Lemmings Quartet (v1.5) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2022, 09:13:11 PM »
I have decided to revisit quartet 16 and adjust the sign the other way after remembering some backroutes I found when making the level. I'm not sure if any could still be made to work given how the level has evolved since then, but I decided to be safe and fix that sign. Sadly this means the solution kaywhyn found for this level won't work anymore :(, but on the plus side, there is still another route to be found ;)

As before, I will attach the previous version of the pack to this reply if you want to play the earlier version of the level - otherwise please grab the latest copy of the pack from the main post
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Lemmings Quartet (v1.5) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2022, 09:46:59 PM »
Played through the pack today and attached my replays.

Great pack! :thumbsup:

I suspect not many (if any) backroutes. :)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Lemmings Quartet (v1.5) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2022, 02:56:38 PM »
I forgot the talisman on Extra 6 -- attached a new replay. :)