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Offline WillLem

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[SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« on: September 15, 2021, 10:57:05 PM »


10 Levels at SUPERLEMMINA SPEED!



Here it is! The sequel to WillLem's SUPERLEMMINGS featuring the Lemminas mod! These frenetic levels have SuperLemming mode switched on and are intended to be played at speed and without pressing pause - are you up to the challenge? 8-)

Challenge Rules

:lemming: Do not press pause - Exception: you may pause the level at the beginning to plan your strat, but once play commences the pause button cannot be used for any reason
:lemming: You may use Direction Select and any of the other QOL tools that SuperLemmini offers, but bonus points are awarded for non-use of these
:lemming: Replays are not permitted at all - if the level restarts due to a failed attempt, play must also restart

Level List (click to show/hide)

The pack includes:

:lemming: Levels
:lemming: Lemminas Mod
:lemming: Lemminas Music
:lemming: Lemminas Style Pack
:lemming: Logo Graphic

Please let me know if you have any problems getting this pack to work.

All mods, music and styles are custom-made by the author (me! :lemcat:). You are of course welcome to use them in your levels/packs, but please give me a credit if you do so. Thanks!

These levels are intended to be played without using the pause button!



Please note that this pack was written for SuperLemmini. If playing in SuperLemminiToo, it is strongly recommended that you disable the Timed Bomber option!
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 06:18:56 AM by WillLem »

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 11:06:51 PM »
Awesome, WillLem! I will be giving this one a go as well. As a matter of fact, I need to make sure I give your SuperLemmini packs a playthrough. Just as a heads-up, I likely will do your Inverse Lemmings once I complete my current LP. It's been way too long since I've played a level pack of yours. So, be on the lookout for it when my LP goes up! :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2021, 07:37:08 PM »
Solved all the levels without pause etc.

The tile set looks quite well. The metallic pipes look at first like steel though. The pack has up and downs in my view and was at times quite brutal. Since I'm not used to Superlemmini physics I sometimes couldn't assess well what works, kills etc. or not. Levels look aesthetically well.

General Remark (click to show/hide)

Inroducing SUPERLEMMINA/z1.rpl (click to show/hide)



Godspeed, Ms. Lemmina/z4.rpl (click to show/hide)

Ceci N'est Pas Une Pipe/z5.rpl (click to show/hide)


Carlemita Jeter/z7.rpl (click to show/hide)


Lactose Free Lemminas/z9.rpl (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: October 11, 2021, 07:54:09 PM by Forestidia86 »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 01:39:14 AM »
Quote from: Forestidia86
Solved all the levels without pause etc.

Excellent stuff, well done! :thumbsup:

Thanks for your kind comments and feedback.

I notice that you didn't use Direction Select at all throughout the entire pack, which must have taken considerable patience during some sections! It would have been absolutely fine to use it for this this challenge. I used it for my playthrough, but watching yours has inspired me to give it a go without this tool as well! :lemcat:

Quote from: Forestidia86
I really disliked the hidden/barely visible traps in some of the levels. The challenge should play fair there since you lose all your progress.

I know what you mean, and it's a contentious issue in the world of lemmings levels generally. However, given that the pack is a purely execution-based challenge pack, my honest thoughts are that the hidden traps are OK. Some reasons:

- There aren't too many of them (3 in total across 10 levels)
- They are all placed in somewhat obvious locations. These are intentional clues which I believe make the challenge a bit more fair than if they were just hidden randomly all over the place:
Hidden Trap Locations (click to show/hide)
- We're not allowed hidden traps in NeoLemmix, but we are in SuperLemmini. I generally view it as a "because you can, you should!" situation :excited:

Quote from: Forestidia86
Don't Press Pause! (save req. 50%)/z2.rpl(94%) Not sure if I backrouted the level

Generally, there are no backroutes in this pack, it's more of a "beat it however you can" kind of challenge. Also, I like the way you solved this level :lemcat:

Quote from: Forestidia86
Probably there is directional select but not sure if I was allowed to use that. Jumps in the replay are again due to preview clicking

Yes, Direction Select would have been OK to use and well done for making it through the pack without it! Meanwhile, the replay jumps are not an issue since I have SL set up not to follow camera movements during a replay.

Quote from: Forestidia86
Godspeed, Ms. Lemmina/z4.rpl Im my view the hardest level by far. Skill set is imho appropriately generous. The level is not unfit to the challenge though at times utterly precise. One really needs terrier mood for this one ... There is a learning process in this level and having solved Carlemita Jeter before helped a bit

Yes, this one is extremely hard and took me many attempts. I wanted to have a level in this pack which would really test a player's reflexes and which would be a real challenge for those who had beaten the previous SUPERLEMMING packs.

Quote from: Forestidia86
Ceci N'est Pas Une Pipe/z5.rpl We all fall down in fast. For my taste 60 lemmings is too much.

60 lemmings is the amount used in the original Taxing version of We All Fall Down. Since Taxing is my favourite rank in L1, I decided to use this number by way of tribute.

Quote from: Forestidia86
Attack Of The Ice Cream Monster (save req. 75%)/z6.rpl (84%) I generally liked that level. The skill set seemed okay and the level was well manageable. Though I actually don't see why it has to be a challenge level at superlemming speed due to the aforementioned aspects

I'm glad you enjoyed the level! The intention here was to make a Superlemming-speed disjoint union, which hadn't really been done in the previous SUPERLEMMING packs. I suppose the challenge is really the same as any Superlemming-speed level: manage the chaos! I'm glad this one isn't too hard though.

Quote from: Forestidia86
Carlemita Jeter/z7.rpl I really hope the middle part is a backroute, it was so utterly precise

Whilst there are no intended solutions (as such) in the pack, there are certainly ways to make the process of playing it more or less difficult! ;P You could have gone over the top of the middle section which would have been a lot less cumbersome, albeit more dangerous, to execute. Your choice to brute-force it made it a lot fiddlier than it needed to be, but I can see why you chose that route to be fair. And - as I said - the only "rule" here is to beat the level however you can without pressing pause, which you succeeded in doing! :lemcat:

Quote from: Forestidia86
Take Another Running Jump (save req. 98 %)/z8.rpl (98%)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Forestidia86
Lactose Free Lemminas/z9.rpl I had forgotten the original solution so I had to think for a while. But executing the level wasn't that hard even the last miner assignment though I might have been lucky.

It was a very fortunate but also very skillful assignment, especially since you chose the most difficult way to execute the final Miner, so well done! :thumbsup: See the playthrough video for an easier way to do this one! ;P

Again, thanks for playing through this and for sharing your replays. It's great to know that people are enjoying these levels and managing to beat them. I'll take your feedback on board for the next SUPERLEMMINGS pack :lemcat:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 01:45:27 AM by WillLem »

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2021, 07:32:04 PM »
Quote from: Forestidia86
I really disliked the hidden/barely visible traps in some of the levels. The challenge should play fair there since you lose all your progress.

I know what you mean, and it's a contentious issue in the world of lemmings levels generally. However, given that the pack is a purely execution-based challenge pack, my honest thoughts are that the hidden traps are OK. Some reasons:

- There aren't too many of them (3 in total across 10 levels)
- They are all placed in somewhat obvious locations. These are intentional clues which I believe make the challenge a bit more fair than if they were just hidden randomly all over the place:
Hidden Trap Locations (click to show/hide)
- We're not allowed hidden traps in NeoLemmix, but we are in SuperLemmini. I generally view it as a "because you can, you should!" situation :excited:

One problem with hidden traps is that the designer will never experience them in the way the player will experience them since they are not hidden to the designer.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2021, 05:22:01 PM »
One problem with hidden traps is that the designer will never experience them in the way the player will experience them since they are not hidden to the designer.

I'm aware of that, it's a fairly old argument on the forums by now.

L1 and Oh No both contained hidden traps, and I was never bothered by them. I enjoyed them as an integral part of the game as a whole and, if an engine allows for it, I see no reason not to continue to create levels which use these elements sparingly and tastefully*.

If I release a pack in SuperLemmini, it will almost certainly contain at least one or two levels which make use of hidden elements. I enjoyed them as a player, so I also enjoy them as a designer.

If ever I play someone else's levels which use hidden traps or hidden exits, I generally enjoy them as long as they aren't over-used or used in such a way as to make the level basically unplayable. If there is a single trap in a level, the challenge becomes one of memory - the player must remember exactly where the trap is once they've discovered it. I hope you can agree that my levels are enjoyable in this regard, whether or not you're a fan of hidden stuff.



* I think the reason that hidden elements in fan-made levels is so frowned upon is that there is the possibility for these to be woefully over-used. Essentially, such levels are basically troll levels, with the intention to annoy and mislead the player. Conversely, a level which uses a single hidden trap can hardly be considered a troll level; rather, it is one which requires the player to remember where the trap is each time they play the level. This has been considered by some as "fake difficulty", a term which I find problematic because the difficulty is not fake; if a player genuinely has trouble remembering where the trap is, then it is an added layer of difficulty which I believe to be acceptable - again, iff used sparingly rather than excessively.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 05:33:47 PM by WillLem »

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2021, 06:08:54 PM »
I think it may be just a matter of taste. Remembering the traps was not difficult since they were in quite obvious places. It can be a matter of losing trust in the levels generally and fearing traps everywhere. In Carlemita Jeter I thought I had made through the level to then get crushed by the trap, that was really harsh for me.

But in the end it is your decision how you want to make the levels and what you enjoy. I didn't want to open up the general topic of hidden traps, it was just my personal impression.

Generally I think the Superlemming packs helped me to improve my skills, esp. learning better hotkeying. It helped me to beat the Dos-Superlemming level for the first time.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 06:14:52 PM by Forestidia86 »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2021, 07:26:29 PM »
Generally I think the Superlemming packs helped me to improve my skills, esp. learning better hotkeying. It helped me to beat the Dos-Superlemming level for the first time.

Awesome! I'm very glad about this :thumbsup: :lemcat:

Offline namida

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 07:06:37 AM »
Quote
I think the reason that hidden elements in fan-made levels is so frowned upon is that there is the possibility for these to be woefully over-used. Essentially, such levels are basically troll levels, with the intention to annoy and mislead the player. Conversely, a level which uses a single hidden trap can hardly be considered a troll level; rather, it is one which requires the player to remember where the trap is each time they play the level. This has been considered by some as "fake difficulty", a term which I find problematic because the difficulty is not fake; if a player genuinely has trouble remembering where the trap is, then it is an added layer of difficulty which I believe to be acceptable - again, iff used sparingly rather than excessively.

No, that is not why. Even a single one is annoying as hell when you have a solution that should work, only to run into a trap that there was no way to know was there and have to go back to square one. It doesn't add any challenge to the level. All it does is say "haha fuck you, you can't do it that way" to the player when they're taking an approach that, were it not for a trap that there is no reason to expect is there, would work. Except for annoying the player, a hidden trap never achieves anything that a visible trap cannot. If you don't want the player to take a specific path, put a visible obstacle on it, or carefully set up the skillset so that the path doesn't work out skill-wise.

Or to put it another way: It's the Lemmings level equivalent of a riddle where every time someone comes up with an answer that fits but isn't the one you wanted, you just say "nah that's not allowed, find another answer" over and over until they get the exact idea you had in mind, rather than crafting the riddle better so that the other answers don't fit.

The difference between a single and multiple is that, while the former is likely to just get the one level written off as bad, a pack doing it over and over is likely to get the whole pack written off as bad.

Offline Simon

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2021, 08:19:08 PM »
player to remember where the trap

For this, the engine (which we assume fosters execution difficulty) should reveal all hidden traps at start of play, with big flashing marks, and then hide them during play.

-- Simon

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2021, 09:55:51 AM »
Quote from: namida
when you have a solution that should work
...
when they're taking an approach that, were it not for a trap that there is no reason to expect is there, would work

Then, why play the level at all if it can be solved just by looking at it?

Quote from: Simon
the engine...should reveal all hidden traps at start of play, with big flashing marks, and then hide them during play.

This I could get on board with, tbf. However, I still think that discovering it through exploration of a particular route is more fun.

Quote from: namida
Except for annoying the player, a hidden trap never achieves anything that a visible trap cannot

Personally, I was never annoyed by the hidden traps in L1 or Oh No, I just took them as being part of the game. I can see why some players find them annoying, but in a discussion such as this it's worth remembering that others don't.

Also, it's debatable that they achieve nothing beyond being "the same obstacle, but hidden." This, I think, depends far more on a player's solving approach and preferred playing style. The "picture puzzlers" are likely to be annoyed by it and think it adds nothing, granted. However, there are (and always have been) more than just this one way to enjoy a game like Lemmings.

Quote from: namida
It's the Lemmings level equivalent of a riddle where every time someone comes up with an answer that fits but isn't the one you wanted, you just say "nah that's not allowed, find another answer" over and over until they get the exact idea you had in mind, rather than crafting the riddle better so that the other answers don't fit.

I get what you mean, but this comment only really applies to levels with a particular solution. More open-ended levels can contain hidden traps without this statement being relevant in quite the same way.

Forgive the inference, but your opinion seems to be that designers who use hidden traps are either immature, petulant or malicious (or all of these!) However, that's something which is impossible to know or prove without further information about the level designer's intentions. I've made it quite clear that, wherever I have used hidden elements in levels (so far probably less than 5% of my total output), the intention is to a) make the level/pack more fun for players who enjoy such elements, and b) add an extra layer of execution difficulty to packs which are mainly focused on that style of play, by calling on the player to remember the location of these elements once they've been discovered. I personally enjoy this challenge, so why wouldn't I occasionally employ it in my own levels? Given my reasons for doing so, I don't think it's an immature or malicious thing to do.

The difference between a single and multiple is that, while the former is likely to just get the one level written off as bad, a pack doing it over and over is likely to get the whole pack written off as bad.

I agree with the latter of these statements, i.e. overusing these elements throughout an entire pack is a trollish thing to do and is likely to simply get the whole pack written off as bad, agreed.

However, I definitely don't think a single use of a hidden element makes for a bad level. It depends entirely on the level's context within the pack, and on the designer's reasons for its inclusion. Hidden stuff can be used tastefully, and in such a way as to enhance a level, particularly those which are more open-ended.

From this discussion in particular, I can concede that using hidden stuff in levels which require one particular solution is a naff thing to do, but in levels which are more exploration-focused, more execution-focused, and more about actually playing the game and seeing what happens rather than plotting an entire strategy before hitting "play", hidden stuff is at worst a minor annoyance and at best a fun way to give a level some real-time depth.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 10:03:09 AM by WillLem »

Offline Proxima

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2021, 04:34:12 PM »
(I don't think a pack topic is the right place for this kind of discussion, so WillLem, let us know if you'd like the posts about hidden traps to be moved to a Level Design topic.)

Quote from: namida
Then, why play the level at all if it can be solved just by looking at it?

That is not what namida is saying at all. In any level, no matter how open-ended, we don't make moves at random. We look ahead. We think about the obstacles ahead and how best to overcome them. At some point, we believe we have a solution and we try it out. Maybe we're not confident because it's not clear in advance how the timing will line up or whether we have enough builders for a construction -- this is one of the biggest reasons why no-one here actually thinks that all levels should be solvable just by looking at them, and why your "picture puzzle" label is so irksome. Sometimes, though, the layout and skillset clearly indicate that a solution will work -- again, not just in single-solution levels but also in open-ended ones -- and then you find that a designer has put a hidden trap in just to say "I don't want you to do that".

You say you are doing this in good taste, but the person on the other end doesn't know your intentions, they can only judge the content they receive -- the level itself. This is why thinking about "how will this come across to someone seeing it for the first time?" is such an important part of game design -- for any kind of game.

Quote
Personally, I was never annoyed by the hidden traps in L1 or Oh No, I just took them as being part of the game.

That's because the game let you know that hidden traps would be a regular part of it, by including them from the outset, in the 20-of-everything levels where hitting a hidden trap didn't matter at all because you could just send in another worker lemming. In a game like SuperLemmini or NeoLemmix where hidden traps go against the expectations that have been built up, you have to work a lot harder to justify them.

Finally, speaking as someone who mostly designs open-ended levels, I strongly disagree with your equation of "open-ended" and "exploration-focused". Open-ended just means that instead of a unique solution, the challenge comes from not having enough resources to brute-force your way to the exit, and having to strategise about how to make the most of the resources you have.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2021, 06:37:29 PM »
Quote from: Proxima
(I don't think a pack topic is the right place for this kind of discussion, so WillLem, let us know if you'd like the posts about hidden traps to be moved to a Level Design topic.)

I'm happy for the discussion to remain here, since it's relevant to the pack. But, if mods want to move it for the sake of site-wide consistency, then of course that's OK.

Quote from: Proxima
no-one here actually thinks that all levels should be solvable just by looking at them

The impression I get is that this is absolutely the case (i.e. that a lot of people think they should be solvable on sight alone).

Maybe it's more "everything in the level should be clear just by looking at it" -  and OK, I can agree with this to some extent. However, I still think that since video games offer the possibility for this not to be the case, then it is acceptable to occasionally not adhere to this. "Everything is not as it seems"-type levels can be fun, if done carefully and not to the point of outright trollishness.

Quote from: Proxima
and why your "picture puzzle" label is so irksome

I call it like I see it. Whilst I love both engines, many of the player-assist tools in NeoLemmix and Lix essentially reduce the vast majority of levels to puzzles which can be solved just by looking at an image of the level and knowing its skillset and other stats. The only 2 factors which can affect this are time limits and variable release rate, the former of which is expected to be justifiable if used at all, and the latter of which has been removed from Lix altogether.

Quote from: Proxima
and then you find that a designer has put a hidden trap in just to say "I don't want you to do that"

I'm not sure that this is correct. In my experience, the exact opposite is true of most hidden trap usages; they are usually placed along the route that's supposed to be taken (examples: Compression Method 1, Rendezvous, Tubular Lemmings, plus my own levels Sprint The Nessy and Godspeed, Ms. Lemmina) so the challenge becomes a) remembering its location, and b) finding some method of traversal.

The assumption that designers use hidden traps as a way of preventing a certain route from being possible is therefore not entirely sound; in most cases, the trap is hidden on the only possible route, and becomes a feature of the level which must be navigated somehow. It would be more correct to say that the designer is thinking "find a way around this", which is in keeping with the intention of most levels that aren't intended to troll the player.

Quote from: Proxima
thinking about "how will this come across to someone seeing it for the first time?" is such an important part of game design -- for any kind of game

I did think about that. I personally enjoy the occasional level with hidden elements, so I hope that others will also enjoy it. I wouldn't enjoy a pack which overused these things to the point of outright trolling the player, so I don't do this. There is definitely a grey area, and many of us draw the line in different places, hence the discussion.

Quote from: Proxima
That's because the game let you know that hidden traps would be a regular part of it, by including them from the outset, in the 20-of-everything levels where hitting a hidden trap didn't matter at all because you could just send in another worker lemming. In a game like SuperLemmini or NeoLemmix where hidden traps go against the expectations that have been built up, you have to work a lot harder to justify them.

It's possible in both SuperLemmini and NeoLemmix to create packs similar to L1 and ONML, i.e. which offer the player a set of 20-of-everything levels to get to know what's in store for the rest of the pack. So, I'm not sure how these are any different in this particular regard. Perhaps you're referring more to the forum culture and schools of thought which have developed as a result of playing Lemmings on these engines.

As far as SuperLemmini is concerned, hidden traps are still possible and the engine retains a lot of the execution-based gameplay style offered by L1 and ONML. Therefore, the "expectations" around hidden elements seem to be that they are still an acceptable part of the Lemmings game (although I can see that even here, they still divide opinion).

NeoLemmix has, on the other hand, mostly removed the possibility to completely hide something within a level, and even where hidden elements are used, they are rendered irrelevant by its various player-assists. Here, your statement about player expectations stands up a lot better, although it still doesn't speak for every person that chooses to play Lemmings on this engine.

Quote from: Proxima
Finally, speaking as someone who mostly designs open-ended levels, I strongly disagree with your equation of "open-ended" and "exploration-focused". Open-ended just means that instead of a unique solution, the challenge comes from not having enough resources to brute-force your way to the exit, and having to strategise about how to make the most of the resources you have.

I'm not sure how this is a disagreement ??? Strategising use of resources is an important (if not vital) part of exploration, and vice versa.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 06:45:14 PM by WillLem »

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2021, 07:24:50 PM »
The levels in the Superlemminas pack are to the most part not puzzle oriented, so for me it was less about getting my route/solution denied. The traps didn't change the route but rather needed just one stair (and maybe some more for safety)/bash to get around them. Only in one level it made the skills more tight, else the skills were in such levels plenty enough to not be a ressource problem. Memorizing was actually no problem either since they are in obvious places if you know it.

But I don't think the levels are really explorative either, they are for my skill level brutally execution demanding. Not sure if every platformer player likes hidden traps.

I can see that it is a matter of taste, some people even like troll levels, some like the explorative aspect of hidden objects like WillLem.
But my personal problems with the hidden traps in the Superlemminas pack were:

1) The challenge wants the player to abstain from using tools the engine actually grants them by itself. This makes the levels much harder. And then when one thinks the level is beaten, a hidden trap crushes the success just before the exit. The player can feel trolled or cheated by that, especially since the challenge asked them to play fair and clear by the rules. This could be an incentive to just use action replay. After it happened to me I gathered myself and started freshly over, kept the rules. But it was really harsh for me.

2) I actually didn't expect the deliberate use of hidden traps in such a challenge, which made them hit harder as Proxima indicated. On the other hand one loses trust in the levels and fears traps everywhere.

3) Generally in hard/at the end of levels they have a bigger impact than at the beginning/in easier ones.

I'm actually not so into memorizing things as well though as I said that was not the problem here. I took the challenge because I wanted to improve my skills executionwise.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 09:01:08 PM by Forestidia86 »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] WillLem's SUPERLEMMINAS
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2021, 12:11:16 AM »
Quote from: Forestidia86
1) The challenge wants the player to abstain from using tools the engine actually grants them by itself.

Only pause and action replay are restricted, since these defeat the object of the Superlemming mode (which is to play the levels from start to finish at speed). All other tools (direction select, walker select, untimed bombers, etc) are fair game.

Quote from: Forestidia86
This makes the levels much harder. And then when one thinks the level is beaten, a hidden trap crushes the success just before the exit. The player can feel trolled or cheated by that, especially since the challenge asked them to play fair and clear by the rules. This could be an incentive to just use action replay. After it happened to me I gathered myself and started freshly over, kept the rules. But it was really harsh for me.

I'm sad to hear that this level (Carmelita Jeter) was harsh for you, since these packs are meant to be a bit of fun. I am glad that you stuck to the challenge though, and I hope you feel good for having beaten it!

Quote from: Forestidia86
On the other hand one loses trust in the levels and fears traps everywhere.

Perhaps... but then, L1 and ONML both used hidden traps and I don't remember "fearing them everywhere". I think that this is a matter of personal taste and seems to be dependent on the player.

Quote from: Forestidia86
Generally in hard/at the end of levels they have a bigger impact than at the beginning/in easier ones.

Hmm. Good shout, I'll keep this in mind for future packs. Up, Down Or Round And Round from ONML uses a hidden trap right at the end, and it's a doozy when you aren't expecting it.

Quote from: Forestidia86
I took the challenge because I wanted to improve my skills executionwise.

Good stuff! I am glad that it helped with this :lemcat: I hope that, in spite of the "hidden trap controversy", you can think back fondly on these packs as a bit of fun and something different. You managed to beat all three after all, which is impressive :thumbsup: