Author Topic: Damage-only levels  (Read 2476 times)

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Offline Minim

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Damage-only levels
« on: March 20, 2020, 12:46:53 PM »
I hope this is a good name for the challenge, but it's supposed to be the flipside to Luis' old challenge: Undamaged levels. I'm sure the diagram below along with the description and the replay will give everyone a better understanding of the challenge.

If you haven't heard of Luis' challenge. The objective was to solve the level without damaging the terrain. You can use digging and bombing skills, but they should only be used on created stairs.

This challenge is the complete opposite. Here you are allowed to destroy terrain, but for any builders you create, they must be removed completely at the end for your result to count. In Lemmings Revolution, builders inside a created tunnel automatically blends with the landscape.

For example, I've attached a (DOS) replay for Tricky 1: An example of a solvable level where the builder is required, but is rather straightforard to remove. If this challenge is popular then I won't hesitate to get started.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline Proxima

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Re: Damage-only levels
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2020, 05:39:21 PM »
Sorry to say this, but at first glance this doesn't seem very interesting -- I could be wrong, so I don't mind leaving this open for a while to see what emerges.

We already have Skills you can't live without, so any level that can be solved without builders is a guaranteed "yes" for this challenge. For levels where you do need builders, I would guess it's mostly a matter of the save requirement: on Fun/Tricky levels where you can afford to lose lemmings, you can bomb away the bridge after using it. On others, you can't.

That means:

Fun: All levels should be solvable, even Level 7, since you can use the nuke to destroy the bridges.
Tricky: 19 is not possible. 23 is possible (use the reverse miner solution, and destroy the bridge with a basher). 24 is possible with bombers. 25 is most likely possible with a landing platform solution and the nuke. 27 and 28 should be possible with bombers.
Taxing/Mayhem will have a lot of impossible levels, but it seems fairly straightforward to look through the list and decide which ones are possible and which aren't.

Offline WillLem

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Re: Damage-only levels
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2020, 05:46:12 PM »
I think all challenges are worth doing, ultimately.

Generally, from what I've read, challenge threads seem to eventually bring up a handful or two of levels for which the challenge is particularly relevant: I think the caveat is that someone has to go first in order to find these levels before a lot of people show any interest.

I've not done the undamaged challenge yet so I might have a go at that first, but sure - I can give this one a go as well.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Damage-only levels
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2020, 07:32:04 PM »
I think all challenges are worth doing, ultimately.

Yes, but this one has pretty high-degree of overlap with the pre-existing "skills you can't live without" challenge.  Interesting/worthy or not, it'll certainly be a relatively shorter challenge, with many if not most results already copyable directly from that older challenge.

Offline WillLem

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Re: Damage-only levels
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2020, 05:45:58 AM »
Yes, but this one has pretty high-degree of overlap with the pre-existing "skills you can't live without" challenge.  Interesting/worthy or not, it'll certainly be a relatively shorter challenge, with many if not most results already copyable directly from that older challenge.

Hence my comment immediately following that one ;P:

Generally, from what I've read, challenge threads seem to eventually bring up a handful or two of levels for which the challenge is particularly relevant

I think that, between the lines of this comment, I was referring to the fact that the other levels not in that handful are often either copyable directly from other challenges, impossible, or simply not relevant to the challenge.

It still remains that there are always at least a few levels which are of interest to any given challenge. The only question is whether someone wants to go through the effort of playing through every level to find those few.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Damage-only levels
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2020, 07:51:08 PM »
Tricky 25 is almost certainly possible, but extremely hard.  I had a go at it, and I was able to take out the vast majority of each bridge while still saving more than enough to pass the level.  I didn't quite clear out everything due to some poor bomber/nuke timing, but I got enough to believe that it can be done.