Author Topic: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)  (Read 1939 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline grams88

  • Posts: 453
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2019, 10:16:45 pm »
Hi IchoTolot

Thanks for giving the pack and go and comments. :)

Have you got a replay for the 4 19 one?

Offline IchoTolot

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 2214
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2019, 10:32:36 pm »
Have you got a replay for the 4 19 one?

As I stated:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Offline grams88

  • Posts: 453
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2019, 10:48:58 pm »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Offline IchoTolot

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 2214
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2019, 07:18:54 am »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Ok, good. That's what I wanted to know. :)


Offline IchoTolot

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 2214
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2019, 07:56:45 am »
Solved it now and attached my solution.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline grams88

  • Posts: 453
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2019, 11:29:32 am »
Don't think this is spoiler as such, that's the intended solution IchoTolot, welldone that is a tricky one to find but I kind of like the trick that you sort of have to use in that level.

Offline Nepster

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2019, 05:23:43 pm »
Ok, I finally solved 4-19, too. While the solution is very nice, I feel that you really should give players a bit more leeway in placing their skills.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline grams88

  • Posts: 453
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2019, 11:22:11 pm »
Thanks Nepster


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online Swerdis

  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2019, 08:31:26 pm »
Hello,

I recently startet playing this level pack and I finished the "Blue Slope" rank today. It's different from the level packs I played so far for the levels are much bigger and the degree of difficulty varies considerably - a little too much for my taste, to be honest.

Some notes:

Levels 6-9: While I appreciate the idea of tutorial levels, I think these levels are damn hard for its kind. In level 7, a lot of precision is necessary while in level 9, I used an advanced trick for crowd control.
Level 11: A complete cakewalk compared to the levels before and after.
Level 12: This one is HARD. I'm quite sure I backrouted it, using a basher-glitch
Level 13: I personally don't belong to the people in this forum that don't like disjoint unions. The concept of this level is pretty nice though I think the four sub-levels could be more varied. There's too much building involved. Also, a time limit would be appropriate here since it would force the player to solve all the parts simultaneously.
Level 14: Easy one and a real builder fest. Levels of this type are a litte overrepresented in the pack so far.
Level 15: One of the best levels in the first rank! I like the name (always important for me), I like the chaotic visual design and I like the way I solved it - though I'm not sure if I did it the intended way. I'm very sure there are multiple solutions possible here.
Level 17: This is the only real puzzle and therefore it's the best level of "Blue Slope" - I agree with others here. Took me a while to find a solution.
Level 19: Much too hard for its position. Many falls are just above or below splat distance and it's almost impossible to estimate them all correctly. It's all try and error.
Level 20: Personally dont' like hidden exits. It's often said, but I believe that a level should give the player all information needed directly from the start (and yes, that's also true for hidden traps).

Now, this may a sound a little negative, but it's definately not true. Everyone has its own artistic handwriting and I like exploring this. And now I'm looking forward to the Red Slope rank.
All my solutions can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/user/Vidusaka/playlists


 

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 9644
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2019, 09:57:01 pm »
Alright so, at the moment I'm pretty stumped on the next level in each of the other two packs I'm playing (SEBLems and Lemmings United), so I figured I'd give a new one a go.

Replays attached for all the levels I've solved so far.

Blue Slope feedback (click to show/hide)

I'll continue with Red Slope in a bit; though if I find again that I'm skipping more levels than I'm solving, I likely won't go much further than that.

Overall, my opinion is - this pack isn't very good so far, but, you definitely have potential to make a better pack in the future. Don't take this too harshly - I had the same issues with my early packs; I generally don't even acknowledge any of my packs earlier than Lemmings Plus I anymore because they had these same issues - levels being unnecesserially large, builder-y, difficulty all over the place, etc. Even Lemmings Plus I shows this effect to a small extent. It takes time to get good at this. Levels like "Blue Palace" show you do have the ability to make good open-ended levels, while some of your training levels and "Strange Place" show potential for puzzles (for example - the builder training level, while a bad level overall, relies on some clever thinking to seperate a worker - that is a good element; try using ideas like that in levels with less filler). You definitely shouldn't give up on level design - pay attention to the criticism of this pack, and chances are your next one will be much better. :D

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 9644
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2019, 01:11:12 am »
Continuing on with Red Slope,

Feedback (click to show/hide)

So, end of the second rank, and most levels are still general easy ones that are extremely builder-heavy. Sorry to say this, but I am not at all impressed with this pack, and I don't think I will be continuing any further with it. On the other hand, I am definitely interested to see what you create in the future, after taking into account the feedback you've gotten on this pack. :)

Offline grams88

  • Posts: 453
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2019, 11:58:41 am »
Thanks Namida and Swerdis

A lot levels have been builder heavy in that regards, thanks for your honest feedback. Looking forward to checking out your solutions.

Maybe I might of rushed this pack, sometimes I tend to rush projects which might be a bad thing. The second last level on the blue slope might be one I should of put into the later ranks but I'll probably keep it there for the time being. The tetris block levels seems to be an odd one here in that it is not too builder heavy but more of a puzzle type solution which it does seem to be a one in a blue moon type of thing.

No worries about the honest feedback, I will try to take into account what you are saying for any new projects in the future. I might of found it quite tricky thinking of different solutions without it being too builder heavy, there is one level I really don't like and I was thinking should I include it but I would this one is extremely builder heavy, I was thinking because we have the fast speed feature the builder heavy ones might not be too much of a problem maybe that's why I put more in than was needed. I probably need to cut down on that aspect of it.

I'm hoping the last two ranks won't be too builder heavy, there is one level I know for a fact I'm not proud of.

Don't worry about the honest feedback guys.

Offline grams88

  • Posts: 453
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2019, 06:41:18 pm »
Try to compare it to an older pack rather than comparing it to the great packs that are out now, I wanted to be a traditionalist as I wanted to just stick with the way lemmings was in the past except there is one thing I did which was not traditionalist and that was the vertical scrolling, I know we had this in lemmings tribes so I thought I might as well do it that in my one. I thought a lot of the levels on mindlist's website are still very good puzzle wise and look really nice, even though they are older ones.

Try to compare it to my very first pack which was this one.

http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/ag1zfmxlbW1pbmdzLWRichELEglMZXZlbFBhY2sY4s4FDA/


Offline grams88

  • Posts: 453
  • Just one more thing.
    • View Profile
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2019, 06:57:59 pm »
Is there a shortcut for loading replays quick, I forgot how to do it as I left it for a while.

Sorry for the builder heavy type levels, there are quite a lot in the earlier ranks, hoping it is not as much further on.

Offline namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 9644
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: Ski Sloping Lemmings (80 Levels)
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2019, 08:03:04 pm »
The shortcut key to load replays is "L", assuming you haven't changed it. This is true for both default hotkey layout choices.

So - you say you want to stick to traditional features. That's fine, you're far from alone in that regard. Although not all of them stick to old features still, there are several creators who have made amazing content using only "classic" features, such as IchoTolot's "Lemmings Reunion", Nepster's "NepsterLems", many one-off levels by Crane, etc.

And I fully understand that, builders make it easy to make huge levels, they also take up a lot of time so they "feel" like you're making a big, hard level. But usually, when you rely too hard on them, what you're actually creating is a big tedious level, not a big hard one. Don't take this too harshly - this is a mistake that almost everyone makes with their early content, and some people still make it sometimes even when they reach a higher level of skill. For example - SEBLems, which is an absolutely amazing pack from the 2nd rank onwards, has a few too many levels of this kind in the 1st rank.

A good way to overcome this is - try to create a pack, not necesserially a big one, it could just be 10 levels or so, while holding yourself to some specific rules that force you to change how you do things. In this case, perhaps set a limit on number of builders - maybe "no more than 4 in any single level, and the average per level across the entire pack must be 2 or less" - and perhaps a similar rule on level size. Think of other ways that such obstacles could be handled - for example, there's a wall lemmings need to get up? Instead of giving some builders, give the player two climbers, a blocker, and a miner. Or if getting up the wall really doesn't need to involve anything but building up, there's no need to prevent other lemmings going up it early, etc - don't even put the wall in the first place; put a ramp instead. There's a gap? Maybe there's a different path that goes around it - or maybe they do build over it, but it's a single small gap that only needs one or two builders. Which brings me to another thing to consider - if you don't have much reason why you need a gap that requires multiple builders to cross, shorten the gap so it only needs one or two. For the purpose of this suggestion, if you have several gaps in a row that require one or two builders each, generally, treat them as one big gap. Of course, there are cases where this suggestion might not quite fit. For an example, see "The Buildo Station", Danger 18 in my pack Lemmings Plus I. This is a level with 25 builders, and players will generally use most, or even all, of them. But due to the nature of how they're used, the level can be completed in under 1 minute - and indeed, it must be, as it has a 1 minute time limit. Another example of a level that's builder-heavy, but still a decent level, is "It's All A Matter Of Timing" from Oh No! More Lemmings! - because how to use those builders is a puzzle itself, it's not just a matter of repeatedly using them in obvious ways until you reach the exit.

Remember - levels do not have to be super long. Many of the most highly-regarded levels are actually quite small - from the official game, for example, the three most highly regarded levels in the original game are Mayhem 3, Mayhem 13 and Mayhem 20, all of which are fairly short levels, with few builders (2 in Mayhem 13, 1 each in the others). To the contrary, the massive, builder-heavy levels like Taxing 14, Mayhem 1 and Mayhem 14 tend to not be nearly as popular. Now don't take this the wrong way - it IS possible to make a huge level that's also very popular, the level that won Level Of The Year 2016 (IchoTolot's "Heroes of Lemkind") was fairly large. However - if you solve, or watch a solution to, this level, you'll notice that there isn't endless building just to clear a single obstacle. It definitely uses builders, but not to create single huge ramps. There are other levels in Lemmings Reunion that do involve creating single large ramps - but usually, one lemming will be doing this, and the real puzzle of the level is keeping the other lemmings busy while he does so.