Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems  (Read 27689 times)

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Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2017, 10:15:45 AM »
nin10doadict's LP is providing some valuable additional perspective on this pack! For some levels, I have decided to re-arrange the skill count in order to enforce his solution where the level previously was too unspecific.

Also, I had a really hard time blocking the timing-based solution on WTF 01, "The Mummy". I've added some canopic jars at the bottom so that the zombie can't walk quite as far, and additionally used the "lock" feature on th release rate for the very first time ever :) .

I'm curious to see what further shortcuts nin10doadict might find, so I can upload another big update of the pack once his LP is finished. From what I could tell during your playthrough of "Mission Impossible", you are now actively looking for backroutes, just like Nepster did, which is very helpful to "cleanse" this pack of any remaining ones! :)
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 11:42:23 PM »
nin10doadict has done a great job at playing through this pack, and as he told me there were only 5 from a total of 100 levels he couldn't solve. And except for one, these were not the levels where I would have guessed it! :D
EDIT: He even did solve 4 of these 5 in the meantime! :thumbsup: So I guess they're merely his top (or bottom? :D ) five now.

These are the levels we're talking about (spoiler warning if you still need to watch his video series ;) ):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once the final episode is out and I've had a chance to look at all the backroutes nin10adict has found, I will upload a (more) fixed version 3. But having found some further backroutes in other, much older packs myself, I guess they can never be ruled out entirely :) .
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 11:50:46 PM by Strato Incendus »
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2017, 07:47:03 PM »
And here it is, Version 3 is out! (The link in the opening post should work as well, of course.) :D

Changelog
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And now for some things I purposefully didn't change:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once again a huge thank you to nin10adict for his very entertaining Let's Play of this pack! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: There were more remaining backroutes than I had thought. But that just means even more could be rooted out now! :D

To everyone who played the updated version and wants to take a look at the fixed levels, the changelog is there to tell you which levels specifically might be worth addressing again.

For people who played the very first iteration of this pack and haven't had any contact with it since... I guess almost every level has changed by now :D . So in that case, decide for yourself whether it's worthy of an entire new playthrough.

And of course, please keep reporting any potential backroutes you discover! :) As I recently found out myself, even old classics of custom packs like Nepster Lems and Sub Lems are never truly finished, but always remain a work in progress.
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2019, 04:00:58 PM »
I've just glossed over the levels in this pack again using nin10adict's Let's Play, and the average quality of these levels was, albeit not on-par with what I've created for Lemmings World Tour or the packs I'm currently developing, still a lot higher than I remembered. Thus, I've deemed this pack worthy of conversion to New Formats! :thumbsup:

This will most likely take place after the stable release of version 12.7, because I want to be able to at least salvage the levels involving anti-splat pads.

The radiation and slowfreeze levels, which there are more of in this pack than in Lemmings World Tour or Paralems, will be removed from the New-Formats version. Altering the solution isn't really viable, especially since the best radiation/slowfreeze level in here, LOTY nominee "Controlled overload", already is a rerun of a previous level without radiation and slowfreeze ("The long way down").

Now there's the question of how to replace these. The average level quality of Paralems is much lower, so I thought about selecting the best levels from Paralems and putting them in place of the radiation and slowfreeze levels from Pit Lems. Then again, there are most likely a couple more good or at least passable Paralems levels than there are radiation and slowfreeze levels in Pit Lems.

I could fill up the ranks from 20 to 30 levels - with five ranks, this would extend Pit Lems from 100 to 150 levels, just like Paralems, but it would only contain the best third of Paralems levels, with any remaining slots being patched out by Lemmicks levels that still work in New Formats.

So I'd essentially create a Lemmings Redux out of my first three packs, which would otherwise remain restricted to Old Formats. This is not a best-of in the strict sense, because nothing from Lemmings World Tour would be included - it would just be a way of porting all the best remaining levels of mine to New Formats in one fell swoop.

Levels that appear on the Encore rank of World Tour can be included, though, since that rank already is a miniature collection of levels from these three packs. The difference is that the levels on the Encore rank were not at all selected for quality, but only based on their level titles alluding to songs, which goes along with the rest of World Tour.

I'd probably call the resulting New-Formats pack "Pit Lems Remastered", in analogy to Lemmings World Tour Remastered, because levels from Pit Lems would make up the majority of the pack. Therefore, it doesn't really make sense to me to call it something more generic, like "Stratolems" or similar ;) .

Once the stable release of version 12.7 is here, conversion of this pack should go comparatively quickly, at least compared with World Tour, because
a) the pack is much shorter
b) all the missing tilesets I have already converted for World Tour
c) not a lot of levels involve interactions with the ceiling, so there's no need for a lot of re-edits to add solid ceilings to levels that need them.

In fact, the deadly ceiling even breaks some backroutes that I originally fixed by adding the horizontal lightning traps (fire objects) from namida's Sky tileset! :evil:

So if you find the freshly-converted Lemmings World Tour too hard, stay tuned for the conversion of Pit Lems! ;) It's quite a bit easier, not relying so much on skill tricks and specific combinations, while still being puzzly, rather than as execution- and flavour-based as Paralems. And the last levels might even give people who can handle Lemmings World Tour some "hard nuts to crack"! ;)
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2019, 11:19:53 AM »

    So that's almost 10% of the pack getting lost during conversion. Maybe I can save "A level of ice and fire", although the slowfreeze is quite a bit integral to the solution, and simply replacing it with a stoner pickup skill will make the level much easier, i.e. much less deserving of being in the final rank. The same is true for "Get a foothold". I thought about trying to save "Controlled overload" somehow, but the main trick at the beginning is really the same as during the first iteration, "The long way down".

    These 9 levels are going to be filled up first with the best puzzles from Lemmicks, because they are of higher average quality than those from Paralems, and there are less Lemmicks levels overall that are going to work in New Formats without gimmicks.

    Priority will be given to levels that don't already appear on the Encore rank of Lemmings World Tour, because I want to avoid redundancy wherever possible. Hence, for example, a level like "Here comes the flood" from the Lemmicks Moist rank, even though I consider it a very good level, is not going to be added to Pit Lems Remastered, because it is already included as a bonus level in LWT. Thus, it has more opportunity to shine in LWT, and another additional level can be "saved" from Old Formats in its place.


    That's pretty much all the levels from Lemmicks that would still work in New Formats, at least with regard to the ranks covered by Flopsy's Lemmicks LP. There may be some levels on the higher Lemmicks rank that would work in New Formats with some slight modification, I'd have to check again.

    "Tick Tock" is going to need some slight modification - for example, a Climber will be needed to get a Swimmer out of a water pit, since that water doesn't rise anymore in New Formats. Also, most of the Lemmicks levels are going to require not only solid ceilings (due to the change to deadly ceilings from 10.13 to New Formats), but also solid level sides in the first place (due to the change to deadly sides between 1.43 and 10.13)! :D

    So I have two options for Pit Lems remastered:
    a) Keep it at 100 levels as just a combination of Pit Lems and Lemmicks. I wouldn't go as far as to call it "Pit Lemmicks" then :D , because not enough of Lemmicks characteristic levels would be present. But those 9 levels mentioned above would simply replace the radiation- and slowfreeze levels, everything else would remain the same.
    b) Extend the ranks to 30 levels each, and thereby the pack to 150 levels. This would allow to save select quality levels from Paralems, as well as a couple more from Lemmicks.




    Those are exactly 50 levels. So just off the top of my head, I could indeed create this 150-level version of Pit Lems. And it would only feature the best puzzles from these three packs, plus maybe a couple of levels which would merely be present for aesthetic purposes, such as the ridiculously easy, but somehow quite popular "Death Titan" ;) .

    For some levels, though, I'd have to see how well that "hiding traps behind animals" thing, which is kind of typical of Paralems, works in New Formats. Animals made of terrain, like the Highland Nessy, shouldn't be as much of a problem as animals that are already traps, like crocodiles or snakes.

    Then again, the main problem with my Nessy trap is that the ONML Rock chameleon, which I used for that, has been made one complete object in New Formats, rather than having the chameleon's head as a separate object. So I might have to add the head to my strato_generalmd tileset again. :D One level in Lemmings World Tour would also profit from that - it currently looks horrible, with entire chameleons all over the place...

    And, of course, from Paralems I'm going to try and save as many of the decent zombie levels as possible!


    If you remember any of your favourite levels from Paralems or Lemmicks that you'd like to see in this extended, New-Formats version of Pit Lems, now is the time to tell me! ;)

    Keep in mind the main goal of the conversion of Pit Lems is to provide some more beginner-to-intermediate content for New Formats, which currently mainly offers high-difficulty packs.



    Finally, I do still plan to put all radiation- and slowfreeze levels of mine together into a short compilation called Nuclear Winter. Naturally, this will have to be done in Old Formats (10.13), but it technically isn't new content for an outdated version.
    I'd just like to gather all of them in one place, so that people who play the New-Formats version of Pit Lems or Lemmings World Tour can specifically play the missing levels if they're interested, rather than having to download the entire packs Pit Lems and Lemmings World Tour for both Old and New Formats just to find them.
    My packs so far:
    Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
    Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
    Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
    Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
    Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

    Online kaywhyn

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #20 on: September 26, 2020, 09:55:18 AM »
    Just started playing this pack yesterday, and I managed to finish the first 3 ranks in about 3-4 hours. Instead of wait until I finish the pack first before sending replays, I'm going to send my replays now just because I don't want to waste 6 hours of my day writing feedback like I did with Paralems. So, here are my replays for the LOL, ROFL, and the WTF ranks.

    My thoughts on the pack so far:

    Wow, this pack is a lot better and considerably harder than Paralems, similar to how ONML is an expansion pack to the original Lemmings and is much harder. Just like nin10doadict said, Pit Lems immediately starts really hard, so that the LOL rank reminded me of the Basic rank of Lemmicks, where these two ranks are still no pushovers despite being the first ranks. However, Lemmicks was released after Pit Lems, and so the Basic rank was more well done, especially with the pre-texts. Here, the pre-texts are not as detailed, but being a way more puzzily pack than Paralems, I can understand why you did that. There were still occasional breather levels in the ranks, but for the most part the levels are quite challenging and difficult. The pack has definitely lived up to its expectations of being very fair with a lot of great puzzles that I absolutely enjoyed. So far, I haven't been bored or annoyed with the pack at all, both of which I found myself a lot with Paralems, so that's a really good sign that Pit Lems is considerably better than Paralems. Practically all the levels I have played so far have been quite excellent and have given me quite a good challenge in a really good way. Makes me all the more glad that I decided to take on the pack after all ;)

    Now on to feedback for the individual ranks.

    LOL rank (click to show/hide)


    ROFL rank (click to show/hide)

    WTF rank (click to show/hide)

    Took me about 3 hours this time to write the feedback. That's about half the time it took me to write the feedback for Paralems, so it's certainly an improvement from sending just a few ranks this time as compared to waiting until I finish the pack before giving feedback. Perhaps I can cut down the time even more by not giving feedback for every single level, as you know I'm very detail-oriented, so even if I skip some feedback for some levels it's still going to take me a while.

    2 ranks left, 40 levels to go! I'll likely be able to finish off the rest of the pack later on today Then that will make two packs of yours that I have finished within a week ;) 
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
    kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

    Offline ericderkovits

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #21 on: September 26, 2020, 11:00:38 AM »
    thanks for the replays for the 1st 3 ranks. Only the 1st rank replays that were posted before yours worked. The other ranks most failed. So I appreciate you doing Pitlems. Hopefully I'll be able to update my list for old formats packs I have replays for. I did a mass replay check on all 3. And although the 1st rank was all already green the other 2 were not until now. Although I have'nt  watched any of your's yet I will tomorrow (actually later today)

    Online kaywhyn

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #22 on: September 26, 2020, 11:07:54 AM »
    You're welcome. It's a much shorter pack and so I'm breezing through it rather quickly and might be able to finish it later on today despite how it's a lot harder than Paralems. I assume you also got my replays for that pack?
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
    kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

    Offline ericderkovits

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #23 on: September 26, 2020, 11:28:49 AM »
    Yesum. And although I had Paralems replays turned green already from other peoples posted ones, I still downloaded yours and even watched your already too.

    EDIT: And even when the Mass replay checker says they pass, I still have to watch them, because sometimes people(especially Joshcue18) never wants to Nuke his blocker if needed at the end of levels.
    So if that happens I fix them so the blockers(or unsaved lemmings get nuked). Joshcue18 never seems to do this in any of his replays even for other packs. and it's annoying.
    « Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 11:38:13 AM by ericderkovits »

    Online kaywhyn

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #24 on: September 26, 2020, 03:47:00 PM »
    Yesum. And although I had Paralems replays turned green already from other peoples posted ones, I still downloaded yours and even watched your already too.

    Cheers, sir! :thumbsup: No worries if you didn't, just that I know you love getting them from me. Since my replays are fresh and I can obviously verify they all work, a mass replay check isn't needed. The purpose of it is to simply and quickly verify which ones still work (passed), which ones broke (failed), and which ones may or may not have been broken (undetermined). 

    Quote
    EDIT: And even when the Mass replay checker says they pass, I still have to watch them, because sometimes people(especially Joshcue18) never wants to Nuke his blocker if needed at the end of levels.
    So if that happens I fix them so the blockers(or unsaved lemmings get nuked). Joshcue18 never seems to do this in any of his replays even for other packs. and it's annoying.

    To be fair, nuking remaining lemmings at the end when the save requirement has been met or exceeded isn't necessary, especially since the main parts of the solution has already been seen, and so really nuking is simply at the player's discretion. If the replays work, then it doesn't matter if the person decides to nuke or not. Therefore, unless the nuke IS required in the solution (there are some great levels out there that require nuking as part of the solution), most of the time it isn't integral to the solution at all. Not to mention that it's always faster to simply exit the level via the esc key. I understand your frustration with those that don't nuke at the end, though, but it should just be a minor point. When it comes to nuking, it kind of grew out of habit for me. Especially since it's really fun to hear the "Oh no's" and the resulting popping explosion sound and see the resulting fireworks display on screen.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
    kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

    Offline Strato Incendus

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #25 on: September 29, 2020, 01:31:45 PM »
    Thanks for playing, kaywhyn! :thumbsup: I'm happy to hear you seem to have had a lot more fun with this than with Paralems. I kind of have to say "I told you so"... :P I think I pointed you to Pit Lems right away and warned you that Paralems might not really be worth your while. But at least, now you know why! :D

    I haven't had a chance to look at your replays yet, but I can already provide some comments on your remarks about select levels.

    LOL (click to show/hide)

    ROFL (click to show/hide)

    WTF (click to show/hide)
    My packs so far:
    Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
    Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
    Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
    Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
    Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

    Online kaywhyn

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #26 on: September 30, 2020, 07:26:07 AM »
    Thanks for playing, kaywhyn! :thumbsup: I'm happy to hear you seem to have had a lot more fun with this than with Paralems. I kind of have to say "I told you so"... :P I think I pointed you to Pit Lems right away and warned you that Paralems might not really be worth your while. But at least, now you know why! :D

    Yes, Pit Lems is many times way better than Paralems. I love almost all of the puzzles I have played so far. I definitely blame this on my completist personality. To be fair, I did say that I doubt that I would be bored with Paralems or that I wouldn't mind the things that most of the community frowns upon in the pack. Nope, I was very wrong. Also, once I start playing something, I have to finish it to the end. Personally, I consider leaving things on the table unfinished not good. Figuratively, of course. I use my example of my schooling. I took classes towards a teaching credential program at the post-baccalaureate school I attended after I finished my undergrad, but unfortunately I got rejected from the program. I then switched my objective to doing a master's degree, which I finished in 2 1/2 years. I took the next two years off, having been exhausted from doing a master's degree. In case you haven't had the experience of doing grad school, take it from me, it is always very exhausting finishing any kind of graduate degree. Sometime during my second year off from school, I reflected back on how I started work towards the teaching credential program that I never finished. With this, I was determined and decided to come back to school to finish the work I started. I was successful in getting into the credential program, and I proceeded to finish up and get my actual teaching credential just last year.

    So yea, once I start something, I have to finish the job/work I started. Just part of my personality :P Pretty much why I was very determined to solve all of United despite how the extremely high difficulty kept getting to me in the final two main ranks, but especially the final main rank.




    I'm currently on the rank finisher for OMFG, and I must say that it is stumping me pretty badly right now. I know what the solution should look like in retrospect, but I haven't figured out how to do it yet. I think I'll get it eventually if I spend a good amount of time on it.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
    kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

    Offline Strato Incendus

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #27 on: September 30, 2020, 10:07:34 AM »
    Quote
    which I finished in 2 1/2 years. I took the next two years off, having been exhausted from doing a master's degree. In case you haven't had the experience of doing grad school, take it from me, it is always very exhausting finishing any kind of graduate degree.

    My master also took slightly longer than the 2 standard years (you have 6 months to work on the final thesis, and my "clock" started running officially in May 2018, so I had until November to finish it. My master started in October 2016, so that's slighlty more than a year until I handed in the thesis; took until February until I got the final master certificate, though). But after that, I jumped straight into my PhD studies in December 2018.

    (I'm going to quote some things outside spoilers now, but I'll leave out the crucial parts of the sentences that actually are a spoiler :P .)

    Quote
    I downloaded Pit Lems for the very first time earlier this year in April, so I couldn't have an older version of the level.

    No, I simply meant that no version of "Blocking all over the world" has been fixed in Pit Lems. nin10doadict solved this level the intended way in his LP. It was only through other players' replays that I discovered it was broken, and then when I had fixed those parts of the level and included the new version on the Professional rank of LWT, Arty backrouted it again. After that, I fixed Arty's backroute in the LWT version, but I hadn't made any changes to the Pit Lems version. Remember that at the type of LWT's initial release (which was Old-Formats), most people had already moved on to New Formats exclusively, and I was getting urged left and right by the rest of the community to move on as well. Thus, I had no reason to assume anyone would still care for Old Formats Pit Lems. :P

    Quote
    Well, thank you for finally answering my question on what level from Paralems is considered the "ultimate trolling level."

    Yeah, sorry, it just occurred to me yesterday that I hadn't responded to that. I thought I should maybe add that to the Paralems thread. But since it was for you in particular, and you had posted in both threads, I thought it ultimately doesn't matter in which one I answer that question. ;) Because it is indeed already mentioned in the Paralems thread - previous users had figured it out already, and also mentioned it in their replies to "Paralems". So anyone interested in what the ultimate trolling level is can open any spoiler tab for the Demented rank in one of the posts in the thread.

    Spoiler (click to show/hide)

    Quote
    For Doubling Down, I'm not aware of any alternative solution

    Here you can see nin10doadict's alternative solution to "Doubling down": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFTKhHwAH8&list=PLbyk0AE1WQV0aITefPK5p6wC9-sIozw0n&index=7

    Quote
    I'm currently on the rank finisher for OMFG, and I must say that it is stumping me pretty badly right now. I know what the solution should look like in retrospect, but I haven't figured out how to do it yet. I think I'll get it eventually if I spend a good amount of time on it.

    Hopefully this little reminder is not a spoiler to you already - I'm just saying this for the sake of game fairness: Please keep in mind that, after several physics changes, Old-Formats physics are quite different to current New-Formats ones. There are certain things you can do in Old-Formats that you can't do in New-Formats, and vice versa. If you've played a lot of New Formats otherwise, you can easily overlook those minor differences. I saw that happen repeatedly to other players during their Let's Plays. :P

    In Lemmicks ("Very Old Formats"), for example, I spent a great deal of time to really drive home the fact that level sides were solid. Pit Lems however does not include any levels specifically designed to remind you of Old-Formats physics - because at the time of creation, those were simply just "current physics". ;)
    My packs so far:
    Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
    Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
    Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
    Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
    Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

    Online kaywhyn

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #28 on: September 30, 2020, 10:44:55 AM »

    No, I simply meant that no version of "Blocking all over the world" has been fixed in Pit Lems. nin10doadict solved this level the intended way in his LP. It was only through other players' replays that I discovered it was broken, and then when I had fixed those parts of the level and included the new version on the Professional rank of LWT, Arty backrouted it again. After that, I fixed Arty's backroute in the LWT version, but I hadn't made any changes to the Pit Lems version. Remember that at the type of LWT's initial release (which was Old-Formats), most people had already moved on to New Formats exclusively, and I was getting urged left and right by the rest of the community to move on as well. Thus, I had no reason to assume anyone would still care for Old Formats Pit Lems. :P

    Oh, got it! :P

    Quote
    Hopefully this little reminder is not a spoiler to you already - I'm just saying this for the sake of game fairness: Please keep in mind that, after several physics changes, Old-Formats physics are quite different to current New-Formats ones. There are certain things you can do in Old-Formats that you can't do in New-Formats, and vice versa. If you've played a lot of New Formats otherwise, you can easily overlook those minor differences. I saw that happen repeatedly to other players during their Let's Plays. :P

    In Lemmicks ("Very Old Formats"), for example, I spent a great deal of time to really drive home the fact that level sides were solid. Pit Lems however does not include any levels specifically designed to remind you of Old-Formats physics - because at the time of creation, those were simply just "current physics". ;)

    Yea, it's definitely been a while since I have played any Old Formats packs, so I have certainly forgotten about some of the things that are possible in Old Formats but isn't in NF or vice versa. Paralems reminded me of some of them, such as the ceiling not being deadly but the sides were. I got to admit that the solid ceiling took me by complete surprise and did confuse me momentarily. I don't remember which level I did that in where I go through the ceiling and got hit with a surprise solid ceiling. Guess all the time I spent playing United the last several months had me so used to the deadly ceiling that I forgot about solid ceilings in the Old Formats. I remember sides being deadly in Old Formats, so this would just be a very inconsistent case of all borders deadly except the top. To add insult to injury, in very old Formats only the bottom is deadly, so it was definitely a rude awakening when I started playing packs again on v10.13.18 after so long.

    So no, what you described above isn't a spoiler at all, since I played Paralems first and it reminded me of some of the differences between Old Formats and New Formats, mostly regarding the level borders. Whether or not that's helpful for OMFG 20 is a different matter, but like I said I think I just need to spend some more time on it and I think eventually I'll get it. I could skip it, but I have a personal preference of not skipping around to other levels in level packs.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
    kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

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    Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
    « Reply #29 on: September 30, 2020, 06:48:42 PM »
    Just solved OMFG 20. Now I really wished you didn't give that major hint away like that. I thought it was clear from my post that I wasn't even asking for a hint, it was simply letting you know my progress on your pack and where I was currently stumped. Granted, I still figured out the solution myself and reasoned it out correctly with my latest post on the level borders, and I was able to test it out just now and indeed it was completely relevant and integral to the solution. Looks like I'll have to tag on a NO HINTS YET please the next time I post on a pack I'm playing and currently stuck. I think it's well-known by now that I'm one of those people who prefers no hints, even when stuck. Yes, I did ask Icho for help with United, but for the record United is the only major pack that I had to do so, and only for 2 or 3 levels. One vague hint without giving away the solution was enough to help me get past the levels I was stuck on.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
    kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0