Author Topic: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (Released)  (Read 10258 times)

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Offline namida

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NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (Released)
« on: July 05, 2015, 03:16:02 pm »
So, you've seen NeoLemmix, maybe even played a couple of NeoLemmix packs. You might've noticed some new elements, or perhaps just heard they exist, and be wondering about them. Well, this pack is for you!

The NeoLemmix Introduction Pack is designed for players who are experienced with Lemmings in general, but new to NeoLemmix. It consists of four ranks, each one focusing on a specific element:

Mechanics - This rank focuses on familiar elements that work in slightly different ways in NeoLemmix.
Skills - NeoLemmix has 8 new skills in addition to the 8 you're used to. This rank introduces you to them.
Objects - NeoLemmix has several new types of objects. This rank teaches you about these.

The Skills and Objects rank also feature some extra puzzles at the end, focusing on the elements introduced in those ranks.

This isn't a small pack, so don't expect to complete it in one go - it contains a total of 49 levels, making it comparable in size to some of the smaller fangames. But it covers the majority of NeoLemmix features that you need to be familiar with. :)

So, where can you get this pack? Here:
http://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?program=31
:compat-new:
:compat-ver-10-11::compat-no:
:compat-ver-10-12::compat-yes:

The introduction pack has been updated to correspond with the changes in NeoLemmix V1.47n and the addition of a Fencer skill in NeoLemmix V10.12.XX.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 03:21:02 pm by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 03:16:17 pm »
Level name references (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 09:07:04 am by namida »

Offline Simon

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 03:32:51 pm »
This is extremely valuable.

This is also an excellent thing to ship with your engine/editor release, so you can deliver batteries-included.

I discourage pack designers from making full-blown tutorials about basic rules of the game. Tutorials in a pack eat up space and make the pack harder to filter for interesting levels. If a pack designer doesn't unlock all levels, even though they should, tutorials become a huge burden and outright kill the desire to play whatever is locked beneath them.

Since, obviously, there is a need to introduce new features, this dedicated pack is excellent.

Experience has shown how new people want to play L1 first, only then dive into custom packs. We can assume enough familiarity with L1 to skip introducing their skills. Should you want to include tutorials about L1 stuff sometime, make it a separate, skippable rating.

When pack designers are going to use strange tricks or features, I'm okay with selected, specific tutorials before such levels. That is normal, good design.

-- Simon

Offline 607

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 07:23:15 am »
I think this would be really good. The 8 levels that come with it now are very nice, but more, especially on things like teleporters, radiation and gimmicks would be wanted.

Offline namida

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 12:32:37 pm »
I'm thinking the first two should be swapped around. The changed mechanics can pretty much be shown using only the classic 8 skills. Introducing these first would not only avert surprises if one runs into them in the Skills tutorials (especially the instant bombers), but it'd allow for drawing comparisons a bit better - eg. mentioning that the stoner is untimed like the bomber, but in some custom packs the creator may choose to make them timed, in which case it's always a matter of "both or neither".

Offline namida

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 01:10:27 pm »
Got three of the four puzzles (for ending the Skills rank) done. These are basically simple levels that make use of the new skills.

The three levels I've done so far, combined, cover six of the new skills - some of them are used more than once. So, whatever I make for the fourth level, will need to use both Swimmer and Disarmer...

Offline Wafflem

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 02:31:12 pm »
Glad that you're making this pack!

3. New objects. In most cases there'd be a single level for each new object, but obviously those that need to go together (teleporters + receivers, locked exits + unlock buttons, etc) would do so. Perhaps also combining into one level in the case of closely-related objects, such as splat pads and antisplat pads.

There are no custom graphic sets for this; it'll just use the standard ones. There'll be a few alterations to MAIN.DAT but mostly only the title logo and rank graphics.

The problem with not using custom graphic sets is that the radiation object only appears in the Desert, Sky, Lab, Space and Wasteland graphic sets. If you want to make a tutorial level for radiation (which would be very helpful), you should probably add radiation to one of the standard graphic sets (Fire would be the best choice) since there's lots more room for the objects.

The same issue applies for the splat/antisplat pads. Perhaps the same splat/antisplat pads that were used in Wasteland could be used in the Crystal set since the Crystal set has electric-related traps.

Two-way teleporters and self-contained teleporters only appear in the Cheapo styles. Maybe add those to the Marble style?

Sega is the only official graphic set that uses locked exit+buttons. Will this be the style you will be using for the locked exit/button tutorial?

4. Gimmicks. I don't know that I'd cover *all* gimmicks here (particularly those that primarily affect only the user interface, not the actual gameplay; eg. overflow, reverse skill counts, etc), but I'd want to primarily focus on the significant ones, that see (relatively) a lot of use, and/or offer a lot of versatility. Gimmicks like Karoshi or Zombies come to mind here.

I feel that all non-user-interface-related gimmicks should be here, even those that are not as versatile. For example, if the Unalterable Terrain gimmick is not seen as versatile, a tutorial level would still be beneficial for it since the LPII level that uses it (Cheeky 8 "The Haunted House") is very difficult and would require the player to have a very good understanding of the gimmick in order to meet the save requirement. The One Skill gimmick also could use tutorial levels, since the current tutorial level for it (Fierce 16 "Limited Requests") is very much difficult as-is; there are also talismans that require the player to use One Skill per lemming.

Another reason for having a tutorial for all non-user-interface-related gimmicks is that there are some people out there who may want to create gimmick levels. Having tutorial levels for them will help people have a better understanding of the concept of each gimmick.

In both of these ranks, should each object/gimmick tutorial level follow with a puzzle level, similar to how LPIII does it (except, of course, the puzzles should be more on the range of Fun-Tricky)?

Also, I'm assuming that the pack will be continuously updated as you add more features to NeoLemmix (e.g. more objects/gimmicks, more changes in gameplay mechanics, etc.)?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 05:39:37 pm by DynaLem »
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Offline namida

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 08:25:45 pm »
Quote
The problem with not using custom graphic sets is that the radiation object only appears in the Desert, Sky, Lab, Space and Wasteland graphic sets. If you want to make a tutorial level for radiation (which would be very helpful), you should probably add radiation to one of the standard graphic sets (Fire would be the best choice) since there's lots more room for the objects.

By that comment, I just meant I wouldn't be creating any new graphic sets for it. Not that I wouldn't use the Lemmings Plus ones (which are standard in NeoLemmix).


I haven't thought too much about the layout for the other ranks yet.

Offline namida

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2015, 02:13:53 am »
I've uploaded a player containing the Skills rank to the first post. Let me know what you think of it - whether any of the levels should be revised (or replaced - I'm thinking the multi-skill Disarmer puzzle probably should be), whether the four levels at the end are too hard, and so on.

It follows the plan I suggested before: Each skill is introduced first with a very easy level using only that skill, then followed by a slightly harder level using the new skill in combination with some classic skills. Finally, the last four levels are puzzles which use multiple old and new skills in combination; between the four of them, all 8 new skills are used, some are used more than once. These levels are not intended to be very hard; let me know if you think any of them go beyond Taxing difficulty at most (in which case I'll probably make a new level to replace them, and instead submit those removed levels for the NeoLemmix Community Pack).

I'll probably work on the objects rank next, since I think further discussion / thinking is needed on what exactly the Mechanics rank should contain. With that being said, since they function more like a new mechanic than a new object type from the player's point of view, I'll probably include pre-placed lemmings in the Mechanics rank, not the Objects one.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 03:01:34 am by namida »

Offline Wafflem

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2015, 02:37:21 pm »
Seems I have had a hard time downloading the player, because I keep getting errors on Firefox like "the connection was reset". But for some reason I was able to download it from Opera.

The player should be in a Dropbox link.

I've uploaded a player containing the Skills rank to the first post. Let me know what you think of it - whether any of the levels should be revised (or replaced - I'm thinking the multi-skill Disarmer puzzle probably should be), whether the four levels at the end are too hard, and so on.

Anyways, my thought so far: the 16 tutorial levels so far are pretty informative and do a great job at highlighting all the concepts of each skill, like the walker tutorial and the stacker tutorial.

In my opinion, the multi-skill Disarmer puzzle (which is "If it Ain't Broke, Unfix It") should be the Disarmer tutorial, and you can just simply remove the bomber and blocker, and probably lower the release rate a bit. Then you can make a new multi-skill Disarmer puzzle (preferably in the Sega style since that hasn't been used yet).

It follows the plan I suggested before: Each skill is introduced first with a very easy level using only that skill, then followed by a slightly harder level using the new skill in combination with some classic skills. Finally, the last four levels are puzzles which use multiple old and new skills in combination; between the four of them, all 8 new skills are used, some are used more than once. These levels are not intended to be very hard; let me know if you think any of them go beyond Taxing difficulty at most (in which case I'll probably make a new level to replace them, and instead submit those removed levels for the NeoLemmix Community Pack).

The levels are indeed of late-Tricky to Taxing difficulty; the solutions aren't obvious and do require thinking. The puzzles also work for people who are new to NeoLemmix but have had experience with the eight traditional styles.

However, I didn't like how in the Walker-only tutorial (can't remember the name) and "Tree Time" the traps were hidden.

Haven't had the chance to send replays to you; I'll get them to you when I have access to my laptop again.

I'll probably work on the objects rank next, since I think further discussion / thinking is needed on what exactly the Mechanics rank should contain. With that being said, since they function more like a new mechanic than a new object type from the player's point of view, I'll probably include pre-placed lemmings in the Mechanics rank, not the Objects one.

Saw the list of objects that you will cover. How about the two-way teleporters and the self-contained ones? Though none of the NeoLemmix sets use them, some Cheapo graphics have them. Hydra1.dat has all three types of teleporters (teleporter & receiver, two-way teleporter, self-contained teleporter) as well as the splat/antisplat pad.

Also, how will you do secret level triggers?
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Offline namida

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2015, 10:06:46 pm »
I don't think there explicitly needs to be a tutorial on the two-way teleporters and self-contained teleporters, perhaps just a mention in the teleporter tutorial's introduction text that they exist in these varieties. For the secret level triggers, I haven't quite thought about that yet, but I'll find some way to do it. :P Perhaps a level that cannot be solved, but contains a secret level trigger (with some hints as to where it is), and this unlocks the following level.

With the walker-only tutorial, the position of the traps is hinted at. There's one hidden trap and one visible one; they both have a cross placed next to them. It's also right at the start of the level. But if this is an issue, I can probably replace it with a ten-ton or another bear trap.

For Tree Time, it basically comes down to a process of elimination that the trap can't be anywhere else. The presence of a Disarmer suggests there's one somewhere. But perhaps I'll put something else to point out where it is.

In regards to Disarmer tutorial, I think the new level highlights the concept of Disarmer being a permanent skill better than "If It Ain't Broke, Unfix It" does (if the blockers and bombers were to be removed). In this regard, I think the latter is a better candidate for replacement.

I would rather avoid using the Cheapo graphic sets, since they're not included by default with NeoLemmix. I even wanted to avoid the LPIV sets due to the difference in graphic quality, but the Wasteland set is the only one that includes splat pads, antisplat pads and single-use traps so I'll probably have to use that.

Offline Wafflem

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2015, 03:08:34 am »
PMed you the replays.

How about talismans? How will those work? Will you also add that unlocking a talisman also unlocks a secret level?

Will there also be a secret rank and a ghost rank?

I discovered a cloning glitch while playing the single-skill cloner tutorial (level beaten text instead of failure text when not meeting the requrement). I think I've seen this one before.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 03:18:25 am by DynaLem »
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Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas! All levels are now sorted by their graphic sets! Last updated on October 13, 2017.

Offline namida

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2015, 07:46:45 am »
A secret rank is probably a good idea, actually. A "ghost" rank is solely a feature for level designers, it's completely transparent to the end user, and as such there's no reason to include it, nor anything that would be achieved by it (this does remind me though - I must add support for it in the Flexi Toolkit).

I've added that bug to the bug list in the Player Bugs topic. Thanks for letting me know. :)

Offline namida

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2015, 06:14:13 pm »
I've uploaded a second preview. The multi-skill Disarmer level has been replaced, and some levels for the Objects rank have been added. All levels are also unlocked by default now.

Offline Wafflem

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Re: NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (WIP)
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2015, 06:24:01 pm »
I'll get back to you with comments on the new levels, but instead of making a new level for the splitter, perhaps that test level that you made back in September for the splitter could be used?

Also got a pesky error for Objects 8:

"Bestand "g_sega.dat" staat neit in archief"
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Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas! All levels are now sorted by their graphic sets! Last updated on October 13, 2017.