Lemmings Plus III

[Nepster]

Fierce 8: I disagree with Fierce 8 not being "too hard". Up to now I checked quite a few approaches, but all of them broke down at some point and none of them would have saved the required 92% anyway... As I will never ever read hints to levels I haven't solved yet, you may have to wait some more before you get a solution for this level (at least from me).

Fierce 11: It's a pity that you decided not to fix this level. Although it's of course your decision whether to stay with the current version or not: Have you considered going back to the level in V1? In my opinion, the current version features some solutions that are relatively standard and uninteresting, like my sol. 4.

Fierce 13: Finally solved this one - great level . The solution's elegance was a pleasant surprise as I expected that I had to use

some trick using the new basher-mechanics.

Fierce 14: I can save 90%, so it's likely another backroute...

[namida]

Neither of those are the same solution I used. I do REALLY like your solution on Fierce 13 though, so even if I was going to make further fixes I wouldn't touch that one. As for Fierce 14, I'd allow that one too, as it doesn't avoid any of the tricks. My solution to that one saved 82% so still above the requirement, but it was also somewhat wasteful; a couple of lemmings were killed that didn't need to be.

I still find it quite amazing that people see Fierce 8 as so difficult, but maybe it's one of those cases where I had the right idea at the right time and it's a once-in-a-million-years thought... xD

[namida]

Alright, the final version has been released. This updates it to NeoLemmix V1.15n; it also enables LookForLVLFiles, extra modes (Challenge Mode, Timer Mode and Forced Gimmicks), and allows using cheat codes to access the secret levels.

So, barring any major issues being discovered, the Levels V3 / NeoLemmix V1.15n version will be permanently considered the "official" version of LPIII. Updates to NeoLemmix V1.16n onwards will be "extra" releases, and will be simply included with the normal NeoLemmix update releases; but for the purpose of challenges, etc, this V1.15n-based player is the one to use.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z1h2vwtu90w8igs/AAB1Io2R8fL4Cjl0s3UCLPjMa/LemmingsPlus/Lemmings%20Plus%20III/LPIII.zip

[namida]

Alright, one more minor update. This is to fix three things:

1) The wrong version number was displayed on the title screen; it displayed as V1.14n-B. This is still unique (as no V1.14n-B version of LPIII was ever released) but potentially confusing.
2) The Stoner crash. Even though no LPIII levels use Stoners of course, but it could come up when using LookForLVLFiles; LPIII V1.15n *does* fully support the new skills (including LPIII-style skill panel graphics for them!), it just doesn't use them in any levels.
3) A slight glitch with teleporter mechanics. This change already existed in the source code by this point, so it was easier to include it than not include it.


Just to be clear, there are potentially three different V1.15n versions. Only this newest, actual finalised one, actually displays itself as "V1.15n". The other two display as V1.14n-B. The earliest one (which was avialable for a grand total of about 20 minutes) also has a bug when assigning a Walker to a Blocker; again this never actually affects LPIII levels, but could affect LookForLVLFiles.

[Minim]

I found Rough and Fierce too hard for me, so on this poll my favourite set is Timid. I like having lots of skills to solve levels, the introduction to new traps, and creating interesting challenges for myself, and Timid suits that role very well. I thought that the Dodgy set would come out on top for me originally, as most of the levels are just at the right difficulty area, but because the final few levels were too difficult for me I changed my mind.

[namida]

Timid does have some pretty good challenge potential. I posted replays for these over on the Challenges board, but two I'd highly recommend - Timid 4 with only 2 climbers, and Timid 15 with only 2 builders. (In both cases, you can use as much as you like of the other skills, as long as you stay within the limit of the actual skillset.)


...I'm really just still amazed that no one's managed to beat Fierce 8 yet. xD To those who have attempted it - would you mind posting / sending replays of what you tried, even if it didn't work in the end? I'd be interested to see how people thought to approach this one. I did get one attempt replay back when it was released as part of a demo; the person who sent me it was actually on the right track but hadn't quite put together everything needed to beat the level.

I'd almost be tempted if to wonder if it's a "level 8 curse" (since the original Rough 8 (now placed at Fierce 6) also turned out to be very problematic, although it has been solved now), except for the fact that this level wasn't originally placed at Fierce 8.

[namida]

Okay, I've decided to change a bit from my initial idea of doing an "LPIII-2" as a large pack with more new levels - this project is not abandoned, but will be a seperate project; essentially it would be "Lemmings Plus IV" though I will probably call it something else, partly because I still don't plan to create new styles for it. For now, the codename for this project is "Lemmings Plus Z Project", until it gets an official name; just as LPII and LPIII had the codenames "Lemmings Plus 5 Project" and "Lemmings Plus X Project" initially. Very little has been decided about LPZ at this point; so I don't have much to say about it yet.

So, there'll be a Lemmings Plus III bonus pack in the same sense as there was a Lemmings Plus II bonus pack. I have holidays for two weeks after today, so I'll start working on it very soon. Just to clear up a few points:

• The LPIII bonus pack is not going to use the new skills, or any gimmicks that did not exist at the time of LPIII's release (but it may use them in combinations that haven't been used before).
• The LPIII bonus pack may use some of the LPII gimmicks, either in combination with LPIII gimmicks, or in secret levels.
• The LPIII bonus pack will only use the LPIII styles.
• The LPIII bonus pack will follow a similar structure to what the LPII bonus pack did; with one exception - instead of two ranks of harder repeats, there'll be one of harder repeats of easy levels, and one of easier versions of harder levels.
• I don't plan to use Frenzy at all; I think we've well and truly had enough of that one by now. Although maybe if I come up with a really good idea, I might include one as a secret level.
  
  Now, at this stage I haven't actually started on it yet, apart from thinking of (not actually making, yet) a few level ideas. So now's the time to bring up any suggestions. But, here's my rough ideas at this point.
  
  Each rank will most likely be 7 levels, not including secret levels. This follows the same logic used in LPIIB's case, where the number of levels in each rank matched the number of musics in the game's cycle.
  
  "Breather" - This rank will contain easier versions of some of the harder levels; basically changed to X-of-everything style levels. I'll be looking for levels that end up quite fun, but not *overly* easy, when these conditions are apply. Some candidates I might consider include Rough 1, Rough 7, Rough 14, Fierce 8, Fierce 11 - but I'll look over all the levels and probably test a few of them under such conditions before deciding.
  
  (no name decided) - This rank will be the repeats rank. I don't know have any exact ideas of which levels I'll use yet - Timid 15 might be a possible candidate, due to interesting and challenging results (that don't overly rely on precise rapid assignments) in the Can't Live Without challenge. I would guess most of the levels would come from Timid or the earlier parts of Dodgy.
  
  (no names decided) - Three ranks of gimmick levels, focusing on a different gimmick each. Definitely the backwards lemmings and the one-skill-per-lemming ones; I'm not sure which of the other two gimmicks I want for the third; maybe even a mixture of both, since they're a lot more limited in potential than the other two. Lazy+Exhaustion might have some interesting potential that I haven't realised yet, but the only really impressive tricks I can think of with the surviving bombers, one was already used in Dodgy 17, and the other one is actually something I'd consider a glitch but still haven't got around to fixing (try using bombers while this gimmick is in effect mid-way through a fatal fall). And those who realised what the Dodgy 18 gimmick was will easily see why that one doesn't have much re-use potential.
  
  If I don't use one of those two remaining gimmicks for a rank, I can more or less guarantee there'll be at least one secret level that uses it. Aside from that, definitely expect a Karoshi secret level, because that gimmick is just too fun, especially in levels specifically designed for it. Other than that, secret levels might focus on interesting combinations of a large number of gimmicks; and it's fairly reasonable to expect that, like with LPIIB, there'll be at least one completely new non-gimmick secret level in there.

[namida]

I've picked out all the levels for Breather, as well as picked out some likely candidates for the repeats - one even happens to be from Rough, although the overwhelming majority are, predictably, from Timid. Still got to work on the exact details of these repeats; I only have vague ideas of how I want them to play out at the moment.

I've also developed (in my head) the idea for one backwards-lemmings level to the point that I can probably actually make it fairly soon. It's quite an easy one, maybe not nessecerially the first level of the rank, but definitely one of the early ones. I also have, thanks to DynaLem's suggestion, a name for this rank - I won't reveal it just yet.

I've also decided exactly what I want to do for the 5th rank, but I might not say right now.

Also, something a bit different I'm going to do here - secret levels won't be, say, "Breather 8", but rather, they'll be in a seperate rank of their own. This rank, of course, won't be accessible from the main menu. So technically, this will have 6 ranks.

Two other things I can confirm - we will be seeing at least one VGASPEC level in the LPIII Bonus Pack, but it will *not* be re-using any of the VGASPECs from LPIII; it'll be new. And there isn't going to be special "final level" musics this time; just the normal 7-track rotation that was used in LPIII along with a track for gimmick levels - I might look at having more than one gimmick music so it doesn't get too repetitive.


EDIT: I've made the first completely original (non-repeat) level for it now! It's the backwards lemmings one I mentioned before, but I came up with some ideas for improvements while making it, too.

[namida]

Got one level in the One-Skill-Per-Lemming rank now, as well as one secret level (non-gimmick, completely original, although the concept might be familiar).

All secret gimmick levels will have the usual LPIII gimmick level music, while in the gimmick ranks there'll be a three-track rotation which includes the LPIII gimmick level music, the LPII gimmick level music, and one new track.

I've also made all the rank signs now; previously I had only made the one for Breather. Just like LPIIBonus, each rank sign is done in a unique style, instead of all within a game being the same like in the main series entries (well, with the exception of PSYCHO in LPDOS).

[namida]

FINALLY!

Just received a replay from someone who managed to solve Fierce 8 (and they did indeed get the intended solution)! This means that now, all remaining unsolved levels are secret levels, or in one case, a Frenzy. So the remaining ones are:

Dodgy 18
Rough 17
Fierce 5
Fierce 16
Fierce 17

[namida]

Got a few more levels done for Rehash. Also had to ditch one level I had intended to use - I was going to do a repeat of Timid 8 "Scatterlem", but couldn't find a good restricted skillset solution that wouldn't require modifying the layout of the level or be overly fidgety. As for two others though, I found a very interesting solution to one of the earlier Timid levels, while another was very strongly inspired by a challenge solution I found recently.

I can also confirm that, like with the LPII Bonus Pack, we'll be seeing some repeats of gimmick levels, but in non-gimmick form. There's in fact two gimmick levels that have repeats, though I won't say which ones they are.

Also, as I'm sure you all guessed, the bonus pack will run on the latest version of NeoLemmix at the time, not on the same version (1.15n) as LPIII did.

[namida]

Some rough hints at the levels that will be repeated. Specifically, here's the count of how many in each style, and from what ranks.

Breather (easier versions): 0 Sky, 2 Circuit, 2 Martian, 3 Lab :: 0 Timid, 1 Dodgy, 3 Rough, 3 Fierce
Rehash (harder versions): 1 Sky, 3 Circuit, 1 Martian, 2 Lab :: 5 Timid, 2 Dodgy, 0 Rough, 0 Fierce

Also - unlike with the LPII Bonus Pack, the repeats will not nessecerially be in the same order the levels were. eg: If there was a repeat of Timid 11, it would not nessecerially come before a repeat of Timid 14.


EDIT: The "unconfirmed" lab level, the solution I had in mind works but cannot be backroute-proofed without heavily modifying the level; and since I want to not modify the levels *at all*, it's a no-go. I updated the count to reflect that, as well as a newly-added level to the set - still one gap to fill.

You may be wondering how these are going to work with Dodgy, given that the solutions were usually already somewhat puzzley - one case is a gimmick level that no longer has a gimmick in repeat form; the other is an entirely different (and in my opinion, harder) solution with a fairly different skillset.

Also, the fifth rank will be called "Party" and will mostly consist of levels that use combinations of gimmicks. The other two gimmicks from LPIII (the surviving bombers and Lazy+Exhaustion combo (it's practically treated as a single gimmick as far as Lemmings Plus is concerned, even though technically it's a combination of two)) will be used in at least one secret level each; and may also be used as part of some of the combos. The Party levels might also use LPII gimmicks too. This also means that the Moonwalk and Teamwork levels will be purely one gimmick each; no combinations there.

[namida]

So I've come up with a level for Party 7. This one has a total of 6 gimmicks in effect, two of which would be very unexpected to see go together! (Obviously, most of the Party levels aren't going to have that many.) It was originally 7, but I removed Frenzy as it was far too annoying with it.

[namida]

Just realised I still hadn't released the level files of LPIII. Well, I have now.

You can get them here. Note that these use the LPIII numbering scheme, not the NeoCustLemmix one, so they must either be modified to that numbering scheme, or a custom style defined in the NeoLemmix Editor with the LPIII scheme.

[namida]

I haven't got around to watching the replays yet, but I've been informed that most of the remaining levels have been beaten. The two that are still left are Dodgy 18 and Fierce 16.

I haven't got anything further done on the bonus pack since creating Party 7 (apart from a few minor backroute fixes on that level itself); but don't worry, I should be back to working on it when I get home in a few days.

Some hints for the two remaining levels...

Dodgy 18 - The gimmick in this level is actually the False Flag gimmick. In other words, it doesn't really have a gimmick at all; it just plays gimmick music. That aside, the solution to this level relies on some mechanics details that differ between traditional and NeoLemmix.
Fierce 16 - Crowd control is in fact done via the obvious method; the twist is in how to get an unused lemming past while keeping the crowd and all used lemmings behind.