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Offline Fernito

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The custom level challenge thread
« on: October 06, 2009, 04:45:45 PM »
OK guys, this is much like the "Oh no, more challenges!" thread but using custom levels, I.E.:  "A" posts Custom level and rules for solving it, then someone solves the level (a replay would be nice, but if you don't use Lemmix, you can post a spoiler with a written solution too), then "A" tells whether the solution is valid. If it is, the solver posts his/her challenge. If it is not, then the challenge remains.

RULES:

- The challenger chooses the rules for the solution of his/her level (for example, "no glitches").

- When someone posts a solution for a level, the level's author must validate the solution within 48 hours. If he doesn't, then the one that posted the first solution must continue with his/her own challenge.

- When someone wins a challenge (I.E.: when he/she posts a valid solution), he/she's got 48 hours to post a new challenge. If he/she doesn't, it's open floor for anyone else to post his own.

I guess that's it :D

Well, I'll begin this challenge thread with a rather simple level.

RULES FOR THIS CHALLENGE:
- No glitches allowed.
- You can use either DOS or OHNO mechanics, it doesn't affect the solution.

OK, let's play! :D
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Offline Dullstar

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2009, 10:26:58 PM »
Well, this is a great idea, but it should probably go in the Level Designing board.
If you ask him, Adam will probably move it for you.

Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2009, 10:39:51 PM »
Thanks Adam! :D
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Offline Minim

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 05:40:00 PM »
I don't like the look of this level that Fernito created I'm afraid. Sorry.

But here we go then. My challenge is: For lm_set04 Level 1 solve with 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 7 builders and 1 basher. Nothing else.
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Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 07:02:44 PM »
I don't like the look of this level that Fernito created I'm afraid. Sorry.

But here we go then. My challenge is: For lm_set04 Level 1 solve with 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 7 builders and 1 basher. Nothing else.

I'm sort of impressed... you won't play the challenge and you'll post a new challenge just because you don't like the look of the level?? :o Sorry, but that's childish, to say the least...
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 08:12:01 PM »
Uh.... you're getting more ridiculous by the post, minimac.  :-\

I solved Fernito's level, solution is:

Quote
Lemming 1 builds over the pit, Lemming 2 blocks on the far right end of the ledge, Lemming 3 bashes through the bridge. 18 Lemmings will fall, turn in mid-air, and reach the exit. You can't save the builder or blocker but that's 90%.

EDIT: Here's a level. This is level 7 of ISteve10.dat with a reduced skillset. This solution was found originally by geoo and is really brilliant.
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Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 08:28:32 PM »
I solved Fernito's level, solution is:

Quote
Lemming 1 builds over the pit, Lemming 2 blocks on the far right end of the ledge, Lemming 3 bashes through the bridge. 18 Lemmings will fall, turn in mid-air, and reach the exit. You can't save the builder or blocker but that's 90%.


Nice! :thumbsup:

I'll try your level now!

EDIT: Which mechanics should I use?
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2009, 09:30:54 PM »
Use CustLemm, not sure it matters, but that's what I made it in.
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Offline GigaLem

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 12:39:31 AM »
How bout a whole playthoug of the genesis lemmings pack
with diffrent ways to get thoug the levels

Offline Dullstar

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 04:03:38 AM »
How come this thread works differently from "Oh No!  More Challenges?"  It would make more sense if it was the same thing, but with custom levels instead of official levels.

Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2009, 07:41:33 AM »
Insane Steve's level is giving me some trouble, heh :P I'll keep trying though.
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Offline Yawg

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2009, 06:47:30 PM »
Yeah, I'm totally stumped too. Any chance we could get a hint? Half my attempts are foiled by the lack of a certain pixel  :XD:
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2009, 07:07:21 PM »
well...

I posted a revised version of the level where the route does not work. Look at the changes between that version and the original posted here.
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Offline Yawg

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2009, 07:42:38 PM »
Ah, somehow had it in my head that you had left Geo's back route in the revised version, which is why I hadn't though to check for the differences. I got it now  8)

I attached my challenge level. I made it a while ago, and planned to release it in my 6th level pack, but classes are eating up so much of my time I won't be able to finish the pack in the near future. Consider this a preview  8) No limitations on how to solve it. Just get 100%.
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Offline Minim

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2009, 08:14:42 PM »
Wow. Look at that level you made. It is AWESOME! :thumbsup: I will think up some challenges here.
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2009, 08:23:47 PM »
Got it. I don't know how to make Lemmix replays but I guess if you want a replay of this I can get one -- it took about 8 or so tries to do right though  :(

Quote
Lemming 3 (from the right) builds to the left, Lemming 2 build to the left about in the middle of the room, then builds to the right to the wall, then builds again to the left to the wall. Lemming 1 builds about a 1/4th of the way from the left wall facing left, then all the way up to the right, then mines -- if everything's set up right, he mines all the way down the builder bridge to the exit. Lemming 4 bashes to the other exit from the left wall.
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Offline Minim

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2009, 08:27:50 PM »
Hey. Insane steve: I have just about seen your solution because you picked the wrong code. The code is: #dee7ef not #f8f8f8.

You were quick on getting the solution I have to admit.

A possibly easier challenge for this level coming up:

Solve it again, this time with 0 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner and 1 digger.
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2009, 08:49:44 PM »
I can't see it that well, but I'll keep that in mind for that color box.

Your level's solution:

Quote
Lemming 1 digs on the far right side, down the wall, and bashes to the right the floor under the 2nd and 3rd Lemmings so they can get to the left exit on the bottom. Lemming 4 mines down to the exit. Lemming 1 reaches the right exit.
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Offline Yawg

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2009, 09:11:03 PM »
Steve, I'm having a hard time following how you solved it...and it looks like a back route  :-[ you can save replays by pressing "u" after you've played your solution, and then load replays by pressing "R" (that is, CAPITAL r ; you need to hold shift or have caps lock on).

EDIT: I see how you did it. That wasn't the intended solution, but i almost like it more than mine. However, my solution does use a pretty rarely-seen trick.  8)
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Offline Minim

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2009, 09:16:27 PM »
Steve, I'm having a hard time following how you solved it...and it looks like a back route  :-[ you can save replays by pressing "u" after you've played your solution, and then load replays by pressing "R" (that is, CAPITAL r ; you need to hold shift or have caps lock on).

I think it's "L" not "R" and you don't need to capitalise it to load replays.
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Offline Yawg

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2009, 09:19:01 PM »
Steve, I'm having a hard time following how you solved it...and it looks like a back route  :-[ you can save replays by pressing "u" after you've played your solution, and then load replays by pressing "R" (that is, CAPITAL r ; you need to hold shift or have caps lock on).

I think it's "L" not "R" and you don't need to capitalise it to load replays.

Um...wrong on both accounts. SHIFT + R opens the load replay window, and u saves your replay to the Replay folder of Lemmix. No prompt though. If you dont hold shift, the r key by itself is mapped to restart the level. As anyone that uses Lemmix is aware, I'm sure.
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Offline Minim

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2009, 09:23:17 PM »
Oh! Sorry Yawg! :-[ I thought you were talking about the Lemmix player, and not the tester. Now I understand what was going on. Now, I need to just calm down and put this in mind.
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2009, 02:39:27 AM »
I found another route through Yawg's level which might be "intended", but pressing "u" didn't make it save. Huh. It's a lot easier to execute than the other route, at least.
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Offline Yawg

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2009, 04:09:44 AM »
Its probably another back route. Mind sharing it with me? And are you sure it didn't save?  "u" saves the replay as "level name.lrb" in the replays folder of the lemmix directory. Maybe you had caps lock on? It has to be lowercase.
Finally released my 6th level pack! Ten levels intended to push you quite a bit beyond the expectations of Mayhem/Havoc; check 'em out and let me know what you think!

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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2009, 04:31:49 AM »
Oh, here it is, I didn't know where it was saved.
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Offline Yawg

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2009, 05:05:32 AM »
I knew putting in all those exits would come back to haunt me. oh well, this is what peer review is for I suppose...  :D
Finally released my 6th level pack! Ten levels intended to push you quite a bit beyond the expectations of Mayhem/Havoc; check 'em out and let me know what you think!

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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2009, 05:08:20 AM »
Hahaha I know the feeling.  :P

Can your intended route work with 10 builders? The replay obviously won't and the miner is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible. I think it is, since at the minimum I needed 2 on the right hole, 5 in teh middle, 3 on the left, and one to stop the miner from breaching the floor.
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Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2009, 04:05:58 AM »
Geoo's solution for Insane Steve's level was AMAZING!  :o (I'm a bit late, I know :P)

BTW, Insane Steve: it's your turn to post a challenge ;)
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Offline Yawg

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2009, 04:42:12 AM »
Hahaha I know the feeling.  :P

Can your intended route work with 10 builders? The replay obviously won't and the miner is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible. I think it is, since at the minimum I needed 2 on the right hole, 5 in teh middle, 3 on the left, and one to stop the miner from breaching the floor.

My intended solution actually requires all 20 builders. Thanks to your playtesting, I should be able to eliminate all the back routes, and have an air-tight puzzle ready for my 6th pack :).
Finally released my 6th level pack! Ten levels intended to push you quite a bit beyond the expectations of Mayhem/Havoc; check 'em out and let me know what you think!

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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 09:16:50 AM »
I am fond of minimac's idea that this thread be devoted to alternate skillset/save %/whatever else versions of existing customs, so I think my future challenges in this thread will be in that form.

I'm going through my levels now to see what levels are good for this -- I have one level for ISteve11.dat but I don't want to post it quite yet.
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Offline namida

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2009, 09:32:29 AM »
Hahaha I know the feeling.  :P

Can your intended route work with 10 builders? The replay obviously won't and the miner is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible. I think it is, since at the minimum I needed 2 on the right hole, 5 in teh middle, 3 on the left, and one to stop the miner from breaching the floor.

My intended solution actually requires all 20 builders. Thanks to your playtesting, I should be able to eliminate all the back routes, and have an air-tight puzzle ready for my 6th pack :).

Making a level that requires 20 builders and is genuinely puzzling without much tediousness is a pretty impressive feat in itself.
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Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2009, 05:43:41 PM »
More than 48 hours have passed since Insane Steve posted the solution to Yawg's challege, so it's open floor now. As my first challenge, I guess it won't be too difficult to figure out ;)


RULES: Just finish it with the required savings, you can use either DOS or Custlemm mechanics.

EDIT: Oops, I'm a bit confused with the forum clock ??? Seems like 48 hours haven't passed yet, have they?
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2009, 08:50:40 PM »
I can't think of anything, so I'll use your level for the challenge.

edit: ok got it
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Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2009, 09:10:13 PM »
hahaha, nice! Be prepared, because my next challenge won't be this easy (I hope :P).

Anyway, it's Insane Steve's turn to post a challenge again ;)
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Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2009, 03:54:53 PM »
Guess it's open floor... again :(

Here's a new challenge. Just finish this level with the required savings and using the mechanics you prefer. Glitches are not allowed!
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Offline namida

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2009, 06:30:20 AM »
Can I make a suggestion for future challenges:
There should be a rule that you cannot post a challenge for your own level; it must be someone else's. This should make it a bit more interesting.
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Offline geoo

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2009, 04:15:41 PM »
Wow, that level is actually brilliant. It's like you have hundreds of possible routes, a lot of skills, and even though I tried circumventing the key move I just wasn't able to go without it. Finding the key move is not that hard, but turning it into a working solution is still a tricky task, and then the solution uses pretty much every useful skill and almost everything of the level as well as comes down to the last fraction of a second.

I use this opportunity to present one of my old levels again - I think no-one has found the intended solution yet, as it was so easily backroutable.
That challenge is to get every lemming into a different exit - if you find a solution without that though, tell me as well.
One note: at the left, there are two one-pixel gaps. They both can be crossed by a lemming using a miner (only every second pixel works though).

Can I make a suggestion for future challenges:
There should be a rule that you cannot post a challenge for your own level; it must be someone else's. This should make it a bit more interesting.
Well, not exactly more interesting, as new levels are usually more interesting than old ones with a challenge applied to them, but I actually see the point of your suggestion. On the other hand, it's a good platform to present new levels and have additional conditions applied to the solution, as well as refine old ones.
A challenge game concept, as you suggest, could also be done with the original/ONML level, as right now there's just a challenge topic providing a list of challenges.

Offline Fernito

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2009, 05:58:51 PM »
Believe it or not, but you actually backrouted it :P Anyway, you confirmed that the key trick is unavoidable, and your solution is as tricky as the intended by me, so I declare myself satisfied ;) PS: WOW! 1 second left! :o

Here I attached the intended solution, just in case you wanted to know it.

As for your level, I'll see if I can work out the solution :P

@namida: I'd wish to keep this open. My initial idea was to post challenges using brand-new levels, but if you want to post old custom levels challenges you're welcome :D
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: The custom level challenge thread
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2009, 12:03:34 AM »
I know I have to look at this when it even impresses geoo, and indeed it was quite a brilliant level.  More surprising is that when I finally solved it, it turns out I have a rather different solution to both you and geoo.  However, the way it used the blocker is the same, so if that's the "key trick" then nothing has changed in that regard.  Also, my solution barely works as there's a particular move that requires some pixel precision, so it's pretty easy to eliminate I think if desired.  It uses up the same skills as geoo's solution and your solution.

I kinda now wish I haven't looked at the other solutions so I could be further challenged to re-solve it closer to the intended ways. :( Oh well.